Why do we judge them?

[Deejay_Spike]

Why Do We Judge Them ?

Last night I had a talk with my mom about some cyclists.
And I say like : "You know, these guys... despite everything,
they're still great athletes."
I have no idea how, but we started talking about doping.
My Mom just can't understand why athletes would juice.
And she states to have no respect for these people for taking
the risk of screwing up their lives on the long term.
I told my mom I actually had quite some respect for them.

Now, let's analyse why so many people tend to judge people
who take roids, epo etc etc etc.
Jealousy? Maybe.
Hate? Could be.

To me, this judging merely comes from a different view on the
world. See, we, as amateurs, naturals etc. live to do certain
things, like having a family and living over a 100 years old.
Basically, we want to live a long and happy life. And the sport
is just a hobby, an extra, or a way to help you achieve some
goals in life.

Now, what's going on in our head? We see many juicing athletes,
and we think, from our point of view "this guy is nuts! He's
screwing up his health, and it wouldn't surprise ma if he doesn't
reach 65 years." So what happens? Yup, we judge them, we look
down on them, sometimes even despise them, by acting like the
school psychiatrist from South Park :
"Drugs are bad, mmkay?"

What about the athlete himself? I think it is obvious that for
the top-level athlete, the only thing that counts in life is
winning. They are born to win, they live to win, and almost
nothing else matters. You already noticed this is a radically
different point of view. These athletes KNOW what they do to
their bodies. They KNOW that they maybe won't live that old.
But to them that is not important. What matters is that they have
that trophy, or that title. and many will do whatever it takes
to achieve that. Even if that means screwing up your health.
I know a great athlete who said : "When you're competing in the
top pro levels, your health comes in last. The only thing on your
mind is winning."
So they don't mind taking juice if they may win from doing it.

People say you should live life at 100%...
That's right... but the way you do that depends on what goals
you have.

I have a lot of respect for the athletes who knowingly take juice.
I try not to judge them, because they just don't live life the way
we do.

[Gene]

Why do people choose the cross the street on a red light?
Why do people travel via airplanes?
Why do people do this? Why do people do that?
Hunting or car racing is just as ponderously absurd to me as is bodybuilding to someone else. Risks are omnipresent in life, such is its nature.

Arguing the issue of steroids is meaningless with people who lack knowledge on the subject, this include doctors and other medical professionals who attain knowledge through medical textbooks and journals. Why does an athlete use steroids? Because the athlete he's competing against is juicing as well. People make a choice to try to become professional athletes, and eventually down the line they must make decisions. Doctors will pull cases out of context, linking steroid use to manifold side-effects that are so numerous they hardly worth listing. More often than not, this information will be exagerated. Many side-effects are mild, non-existant, and often reversible once steroid use is discontinued.

This is a very difficult subject to debate, as most of the people debating this subject know nothing about it. Such is the conundrum -- its a personal choice that is prevalent in professional sport, and unless a person has experienced this first hand, his/her opinion will continue to be weak, this includes (but is not limited to) the media. If a movie actor wants to look ripped for a movie so that it would blast his career to another level, thats his personal choice -- he'll contact the proper people and under careful guidance make a personal choice as to whether or not to do a cycle of steroids. If a baseball player can increase his strength the hit the baseball an additional 50 feet... well... I think its obvious. The laymen have no business disrespecting or judging steroid users, period. (no offense to your mother, people are of course entitled to their opinions and those that lack knowledge often don't know any better and can't be blamed -- but should rather be educated to fix the ignorance).

[bigguy]

I understand why people do steroids. For those who dont do it for athletic purposes, I've always seen it as 'small man syndrome'
My co-worker was 160 lbs @ 6'6". He has eaten some extremely strict diets, with passive ammount of carbs, and calories in excess of 10K/day. He has no known medical problem, except for the fact that his metabolism is out of hand. He used steroids to gain some mass and he is now 180lbs, which makes a huge difference. His confidence level is way up, people dont make fun of him as much, and he is now able to compete better in martial arts.

I also have a client/good friend who is has gone way out of hand with roids. He started at a very unhealthy age, 14, and did massive ammounts. He is 30 years old now, stuck at a mere height of 5'5, and has major health problems. He has had 3 brain tumors, 1 heart attack, and gets seizures(sp?) if he doesnt take his medicine. He is pretty well built at 160lbs. He used to be 190 lbs, but having to spend 2 years in the hospital learning how to walk again really took a bite out of his career. The doctors gave him 3 years to live, 5 years ago. He is back to his old ways doing roids, and pushing himself to the limit.

One day if I feel the need to excel further after reaching my natural limit I may consider roids. I doubt it, but who knows whats going to happen in 5 years. I dont have the need for size, as I already have a lean body mass of 250lbs with a good 70 lbs of fat on top of that I need to get rid of.

[p0w3rlift3r]

i dunno the poet or the writer whatever of the story i am about to present but i do know there is a cockroach named archie in it lol



The Story of the Moth and the cockroach -by i dunno :D

one day a cockroach spent his day watching moths fly into a lightbulb and get fried. one by one these moths flew into this lightbulb, finally the cockroach had made up his mind and would ask one of these moths why the hell they flew into this lightbulb, so he did he called a moth over there to talk with him. He asked the moth "Why do your kind fly into the lightbulb just to kill yourselves?" "thats simple" says the moth, "us moths see you cockroaches day after day diong not much everyday, you eat and have kids teach your kids the ways to get food and eat, us moths laugh at your kind, however us moths prefer to live wild and exciting lives we live about 2/3's of the life you cockroaches live but when we fly into the lightbulb its the greatest, best, most stupendios, outstanding feeling one can feel, its so beautiful and great, you see cockroach why you live 1/3 longer than us moths your lives are often dull and boring in comparason to ours. moths live there life to the fullest and in the end have no regrets" The cockroach after hearing the moths testimony watched him fly into a lightbulb and get fried. once agian the cockroach still wonders why the **** the moths would do such a thing, the cockroach will never understand becuase he does not want something so much as the moth does, the goals of the two diff species our completely different and niether will ever understand each other


this is much like roid users and naturals or outside viewers, you will never know how a roid user feels unless you yourself has done them and you yourself knows the reasons why

[powertrainer230]

AHH yes the Moth and the roach! Unfortunatly in our society the majority of Roaches has gotten together and turned off all the bulbs. Any Moth being seen trying to turn on a bulb gets his wings cliped off by the Roach rolice. Roaches try to brainwash Moths and tell them that bulbs are evil and persecute them if they dont try to live like a roach! I say us Moths get together and defend our bulbs!

[Hunglikeahorse]

I agree people have their own opinions and have the right to do what they want with their bodies. However, I dont think that they are solid studies on steroid use 10-15-20-25-30 years after u use them. Personally, I dont understand the need to use them, lets face it u r not gonna win Mr. Universe, so why put your health in danger for an extra 50 pounds? Hope i did not piss anyone off.

[deaduarte88]

they see steroids as cheating, as an easy button and they are afraid that their children will go for the easy button first chance they get instead of pushing their bodies and minds past those barriers set for them. and it can be an easy button, at least easier, but only if misused. and shouldn't that be our choice i have never used but i dont want the option to be taken from me. the athletes who use are simply going all out in my opinion, call him a cheater but never a quitter, they were willing to go further then the rest for a goal, a dream.

[asto_86]

To me, it's basically cheating. Sure they are screwing up their health, but by "juicing", you take away the integrity in fair competition.

Anyone can "juice", but it takes real hard work and dedication to become the best at a sport without juicing.

does it not take hard work and dedication when juicing?

It's ideas like these that make me wonder what people think juicers go through. Is it the easy way out?? Hell no, lol.. they dont just sit on the couch and watch family guy while snacking on pringles with a needle sticking out of their arm. The juicers work just as hard, if not harder than the natural..
However, I dont wanna try it, lol..

[Mortum]

Boy, these pretzels are making me thirsty.

[Sublime82]

Maybe individuals who use banned substances are respected by some in bodybuilding, but in any other sport they are cheating, plain and simple. The OP completely neglects the fact that by knowingly using banned substances, they give themselves an unfair advantage over other athletes and damage the integrity of their sport.

[RoninHunter]

I think it has alot to do with upbringing. I remember teachers at primary school during the atlanta olympics teaching us about what perfomance enhancing drugs are and their basic speech was "sometimes people takes drugs to make them play better, but the drugs are illegal. Don't do drugs or you'll die." I was 7 at the time so the basics was all I needed about drugs.
However the point is that kids get taught to do what their elders say and they usually say don't do drugs no matter what.
When I injured my shoulder and was told to take some time off I said no and inquired as to what drugs would allow me to heal quicker and keep training. I can't live without pushing myself. I don't care about 65 years old, I won't be fighting when I'm 65, I want it now and if I must take something I'll take it. If I didn't get tested I would juice.
And that's my 2 cents.

[Hrithan2020]

Maybe individuals who use banned substances are respected by some in bodybuilding, but in any other sport they are cheating, plain and simple. The OP completely neglects the fact that by knowingly using banned substances, they give themselves an unfair advantage over other athletes and damage the integrity of their sport.

Yeah this is my main issue with using banned substances; in some sports where all elite competitors use them, it won't give any unfair advantage, I suppose.

I don't know about all sports though. ( It is another thing that some think that everyone at elite level in all kinds of sports use one or another sort of performance-enhancing banned drugs )

[Bostongeorge617]

My simple opinion is that juicing to maximize your potential for a competitive sport is fine as long as everyone you are competitng against has the same edge.

Within that statement, I feel comfortable having no respect for the novice wannabe-bodybuilder who takes gear merely to get bigger, long before they really know what bodybuilding is all about. You know the type. "I'm on my second H-drol cycle..." yet they are only 175 lbs. I also feel contempt for those juicers who masquerade as natural bodybuilders and compete in tested shows, flying under the radar due to poor testing standards.

[deadsheepmill]

My simple opinion is that juicing to maximize your potential for a competitive sport is fine as long as everyone you are competitng against has the same edge.



Would you say it's fine if everyone has the option of taking advantage of that edge regardless of whether or not tehy choose to?

[-NastyNate-]

Im not for or against steroids, but i do think we should be able to make our own choice and do with our bodies as we please.

The truth is that Steroids are very misunderstood by the general population due to the twisted media and clueless doctors. All the things you hear about how steroids are so bad on TV are almost all false. for instance, there is no such thing as "roid rage." The fact of it is that 5% of steroid users get increased aggression, and that 5%, are people who already had anger and aggression issues.

A good friend of mine is a high level bodybuilder, so i have seen and been around the stuff and learned alot about it. My friend is a happier, calmer, more easy going person when he is on cycle! Thats the opposite of what most of you thought and everything you know about "roiders" right? lol Well that is true for most steroid users.

[Bostongeorge617]

Would you say it's fine if everyone has the option of taking advantage of that edge regardless of whether or not tehy choose to?

Everyone DOES have the option of whether to use gear or not. So comes the quandary I believe you are alluding to...if everyone does have the choice to do this, how can I complain about anyone using steroids in ANY situation when I have the same capacity?

Well in the two examples I gave where I dissaprove steroid use, it is more an issue of being disingenuous and or stupid/lazy. A trainee using PEDs who knows nothing about proper bodybuilding techniques and is nowhere close to his genetic potential is merely looking for a shortcut. This lack of effort flies in the face of underlying ethics in bodybuilding, annoying both natural and even chemically-enhanced bodybuilders who worked hard and learned the proper science. To juicers who sneak into natural competitions, it is a matter of dishonesty, which is never deserving of respect.

As far as Olympic and pro sports like baseball goes, the rules clearly say you can't take PEDs. If you do it anyways, then you are no different from the juicers who sneak into natural bodybuilding competitions.

[Bostongeorge617]

Also, let me just say this:

I believe that anyone should have the right to do whatever they want to their own bodies and the government should not babysit, but it does not mean that I'm going to respect them for it. Like the guys who get their johnsons quartered and shoved inside them for sex change operations....I believe they have the right, but I ain't gonna give an approving nod.

Outside of medical reasons, the only people I respect who use steroids are athletes who have taken their abilities close to their genetic potential and want to continue to progress regardless of what mother nature had to say about it. If you have god-like genetics and want to compete in the IFBB, you aren't going to be able to do so unless you use gear. If you were blessed like that, then go for it. Get yours. They are simply putting a full-body kit on a car that's already nice. But many guys are simply putting rims on their jalopy.

[PolVandam]

come on not to worry !!

yes .. keep morale up =)

[DaBosse]

The thing is that everyone has all these view points and ideas about what a steroid user is like from movies and media like that ben affleck POS. But also because most people have this ingrained "DRUGS ARE BAD BAD BAD" in there head and any reasonable argument against this thinking becomes an attack on this beleif and they cant stand to even maybe change this thinking. Most people who take steroids dont give two f*cks what people who judge them about it think, we judge people about **** all the time. No matter what you do in life, someone is going to critisize and say its unhealthy/not normal so all you can do is get over it and not overanalyse.

[Thor23x]

I understand why people do steroids. For those who dont do it for athletic purposes, I've always seen it as 'small man syndrome'
My co-worker was 160 lbs @ 6'6". He has eaten some extremely strict diets, with passive ammount of carbs, and calories in excess of 10K/day. He has no known medical problem, except for the fact that his metabolism is out of hand. He used steroids to gain some mass and he is now 180lbs, which makes a huge difference. His confidence level is way up, people dont make fun of him as much, and he is now able to compete better in martial arts.

I also have a client/good friend who is has gone way out of hand with roids. He started at a very unhealthy age, 14, and did massive ammounts. He is 30 years old now, stuck at a mere height of 5'5, and has major health problems. He has had 3 brain tumors, 1 heart attack, and gets seizures(sp?) if he doesnt take his medicine. He is pretty well built at 160lbs. He used to be 190 lbs, but having to spend 2 years in the hospital learning how to walk again really took a bite out of his career. The doctors gave him 3 years to live, 5 years ago. He is back to his old ways doing roids, and pushing himself to the limit.

One day if I feel the need to excel further after reaching my natural limit I may consider roids. I doubt it, but who knows whats going to happen in 5 years. I dont have the need for size, as I already have a lean body mass of 250lbs with a good 70 lbs of fat on top of that I need to get rid of.

Agreed, I'm not a huge guy 5'7, on a good day and the lure of steroids is definitely stronger for someone who isn't naturally huge but... good observation.

[CrazyCallum]

AHH yes the Moth and the roach! Unfortunatly in our society the majority of Roaches has gotten together and turned off all the bulbs. Any Moth being seen trying to turn on a bulb gets his wings cliped off by the Roach rolice. Roaches try to brainwash Moths and tell them that bulbs are evil and persecute them if they dont try to live like a roach! I say us Moths get together and defend our bulbs!

hahahah!!


I think its because it takes a lot of intelligence and determination amongst other aimiable characteristics to gain a decent amount of muscle. Therefore by taking steroids one may think that you gained the muscle without being the "type" of person who should have it - almost deceptive.

Say a woman will look at a bloke with good muscles and think "good genes I wanna bone him" but if that bloke took steroids the muscles wernt down to his genes as much

[ltcherrypn]

Generally speaking I live my life by the do not judge policy and I understand your point of view of perhaps a lot of the judging comes from jealousy...however, having said that....If someone climbs to the top of a mountain with nothing more than ropes, do you have more respect for them or the one that had someone at the top pulling them up? Personally, I respect the hard working, all natural (legal natural anyway), more than someone that took steroids.

I competed naturally, and worked my a$$ off in the gym. I had a fellow trainer here who did not. She would literally look at my workouts, hands crossed and say, "I'd never work that hard." She was bigger than me and more ripped than me (then), now that she is off the drugs she is still bigger only it isn't muscle now. Anyway, I know that is not true for everyone, I know some people on the steroids are working hard too, I think you see that with Mr. Olympia competitions, BUT what I hate seeing is someone that juices without even trying to put the hard work and dedication into it...skip over that and take an easier road. Hate that.

[ltcherrypn]

Sometimes, but I have also seen a lot of cases where juicers don't work as hard. You now the guys or girls, they bulk up and have minimum tone, just big. I think the COMPETITIORS that juice probably work just as hard as a natural body builder, but what about the non competitors, the college boys trying to get big and bigger and bigger, spending just as much time or more time at frat parties as they are in the gym. Again, not all, but some.

[UTGTi]

lol, I could have respect for them if they admitted to it before they set records in baseball, track, body building etc. If they want a trophy on the PROFESSIONAL level, steroids should not be allowed. Sure, if someone wants to take steroids and win all the awards, it's not gonna have the same effect nor be impressive. So, that guy took a ton of juice and beat the majority who don't juice, big whoop? Not impressive nor do I agree with you. Athletes who get paid millions of dollars should be test every week, I don't consider cheaters winners btw.

[Iceberg56]

Generally speaking I live my life by the do not judge policy and I understand your point of view of perhaps a lot of the judging comes from jealousy...however, having said that....If someone climbs to the top of a mountain with nothing more than ropes, do you have more respect for them or the one that had someone at the top pulling them up? Personally, I respect the hard working, all natural (legal natural anyway), more than someone that took steroids.

^ great point.

also if steriods is an unfair advantage (like most sports) then i lose all respect for that person and it gives a bad name to steriods and anyone who uses them. obviously bodybuilding is different and nowadays to be close to the top steriods are a must. but seeing as though they arent banned for that then it is not an unfair advantage in that case.

[Lightbulb360]

this is definitlu on point

[retromind]

i think that winning becomes an obsession, and it is no longer a hobby for these guys... but a death competition

[jonathanhelm55]

Why do people choose the cross the street on a red light?
Why do people travel via airplanes?
Why do people do this? Why do people do that?
Hunting or car racing is just as ponderously absurd to me as is bodybuilding to someone else. Risks are omnipresent in life, such is its nature.

Arguing the issue of steroids is meaningless with people who lack knowledge on the subject, this include doctors and other medical professionals who attain knowledge through medical textbooks and journals. Why does an athlete use steroids? Because the athlete he's competing against is juicing as well. People make a choice to try to become professional athletes, and eventually down the line they must make decisions. Doctors will pull cases out of context, linking steroid use to manifold side-effects that are so numerous they hardly worth listing. More often than not, this information will be exagerated. Many side-effects are mild, non-existant, and often reversible once steroid use is discontinued.

This is a very difficult subject to debate, as most of the people debating this subject know nothing about it. Such is the conundrum -- its a personal choice that is prevalent in professional sport, and unless a person has experienced this first hand, his/her opinion will continue to be weak, this includes (but is not limited to) the media. If a movie actor wants to look ripped for a movie so that it would blast his career to another level, thats his personal choice -- he'll contact the proper people and under careful guidance make a personal choice as to whether or not to do a cycle of steroids. If a baseball player can increase his strength the hit the baseball an additional 50 feet... well... I think its obvious. The laymen have no business disrespecting or judging steroid users, period. (no offense to your mother, people are of course entitled to their opinions and those that lack knowledge often don't know any better and can't be blamed -- but should rather be educated to fix the ignorance).

I couldn't agree with you more, nothing is more frustrating than talking to someone about steroids who watched something on 60 minutes and now they think they are a friggin' biochemist. Even the doctor that I work for who's undergraduate is in biochemistry doesn't know anything about steroids.

[roni10_levi]

Hello, I am roni and ther is long time since the last time I have post here. happy to comeback!

[IanGeda1]

I say its stupid to be on steroids if your not competing. Why do it?? For show. I don't think so.

[belligerent]

Why Do We Judge Them ?

Last night I had a talk with my mom about some cyclists.
And I say like : "You know, these guys... despite everything,
they're still great athletes."
I have no idea how, but we started talking about doping.
My Mom just can't understand why athletes would juice.
And she states to have no respect for these people for taking
the risk of screwing up their lives on the long term.
I told my mom I actually had quite some respect for them.

Now, let's analyse why so many people tend to judge people
who take roids, epo etc etc etc.
Jealousy? Maybe.
Hate? Could be.

To me, this judging merely comes from a different view on the
world. See, we, as amateurs, naturals etc. live to do certain
things, like having a family and living over a 100 years old.
Basically, we want to live a long and happy life. And the sport
is just a hobby, an extra, or a way to help you achieve some
goals in life.

Now, what's going on in our head? We see many juicing athletes,
and we think, from our point of view "this guy is nuts! He's
screwing up his health, and it wouldn't surprise ma if he doesn't
reach 65 years." So what happens? Yup, we judge them, we look
down on them, sometimes even despise them, by acting like the
school psychiatrist from South Park :
"Drugs are bad, mmkay?"

What about the athlete himself? I think it is obvious that for
the top-level athlete, the only thing that counts in life is
winning. They are born to win, they live to win, and almost
nothing else matters. You already noticed this is a radically
different point of view. These athletes KNOW what they do to
their bodies. They KNOW that they maybe won't live that old.
But to them that is not important. What matters is that they have
that trophy, or that title. and many will do whatever it takes
to achieve that. Even if that means screwing up your health.
I know a great athlete who said : "When you're competing in the
top pro levels, your health comes in last. The only thing on your
mind is winning."
So they don't mind taking juice if they may win from doing it.

People say you should live life at 100%...
That's right... but the way you do that depends on what goals
you have.

I have a lot of respect for the athletes who knowingly take juice.
I try not to judge them, because they just don't live life the way
we do.

Not judging people is saying that i'm not going to judge a hitman because he has trained long and hard to perfect killing people. Just like taking steroids both are breaking rules/laws, so for that reason they are frowned upon especially when they deny it.

[Ryannnn]

Just a thought.
But IMO i don't care if i live past 65, no disprespect to the elder generation at all but i wouuld rather live my life to the absolute max now and do everything i wan't before i become old.

For example for those people who have seent he film braveheart, one of the quotes is
"And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance."

Which is basically what i mean, i wan't to do everything early on instead of pondering what could've been 60 years on. So if that means taking roids, training for competitions and having the time of my life then so be it.

[plebayo]

The issue with the use of steroids [from what i understand] is that it gives someone an advantage in their sport. The idea is for everyone to start out as equals and the person who wins, wins based on ability not by outside stimulus.

It isn't just steroids though that are the problem. Take Tiger Woods for example, he plays golf, a sport which requires good eye sight. He goes and has lasik eye surgery done and his vision is now 20/15 nearly perfect. IMO that's cheating because he now has an advantage over someone else competing who has lesser eyesight.

What about the use of cortico steroids? It's okay for you to get a cortisone injection in your back to help you perform but anabolic steroids aren't allowed? Cortico steroids can be just as damaging to the body with prolonged use.

What about the use of an altitude chamber? You sleep in it overnight and it increases your red blood cells. Taking erythropoietin is considered illegal but does the same thing the altitude chamber does.

I will continue to judge those who "cheat". I think it is a far better accomplishment for someone to say they got their with hard work and dedication rather than with a substance.

[fr0gman]

people hate steroids because they fear what they don't know, most people don't even know what they are, they just think it's a magic pill or injection that somehow magically makes you into a great athlete. I think Christian Boeving hit the nail right on the head in bigger, stronger, faster and some proceeding interviews when he said people need to be smarter than to think that they can take a pill and they'll look like him and there's a huge difference between steroid use and steroid abuse, and if you just educate people about steroids then maybe people will be a bit more accepting

[Jsantana2424]

Not judging people is saying that i'm not going to judge a hitman because he has trained long and hard to perfect killing people. Just like taking steroids both are breaking rules/laws, so for that reason they are frowned upon especially when they deny it.

The Truth is that WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE NO ONE AT ALL. Even if a person shot my mother in the head, i have no right to sit here and call that person bad or judge them, because i dont know what the F*** is in thier hearts. I would probably try to replicate the action even though i shouldn't.

Now as for steroids, if somebody chooses to take them, they are making a decision that they will live with. And if they hurt themselves then it is on them, NOBODY has a right to judge them for what they do. Because trust me pal, just cuz ur not taking roids does not make you perfect or better then them. These people might be better fathers or husbands then you can ever amount to. So dont point fingers bro, cuz honestly 99.99% of the people who are talking ****, are more dirtier and disgusting then the person that they are talking about.

[felicibusbrevis]

I think you can never know what you can achieve without enhancements unless you push yourself, whether it be in gaining strength, mentally, or in a sport such as boxing. I never had the desire to try any kind of supplement because I wanted the pride of looking in the mirror and saying this is all me, everything here is my hard work, every strength I have.

Never wanted to compete in a body building competition, but I did want to fight. I suppose an accident of genetics could make one man "superior" to another, but when the old fat ex light weight Roberto Duran knocked down the huge prime middleweight champion Iran Barkley, it wasn't because of steroids or because Duran was gifted with genetics beyond that of Barkley, it was because of the heart inside him. And I think any sport that glorifies what humanity is, the pinnacle of what man may become, whether through motion or art, should be a natural expression of what can be, not an artificially fake image.

I am so happy with myself, even at only 130 lbs, because there simply are not many guys out there this size who are as strong as me from the years and years of work I've put in, not all of it in lifting, a lot of it in fighting, sprinting, and I think its worth a struggle to know that you did things the hard way. Wouldn't you always wonder if it was you, or just the super potent chemical inside you, that made you great? So yeah, I think its easy to judge and a sad state of affairs that so many think its necessary, and that to be the best in some sports (if you consider body building a sport in particular) you pretty much HAVE to be unnatural.

[StrongRepublican]

Also, let me just say this:

But many guys are simply putting rims on their jalopy.

Well put, and I completely agree. The internet and the rise of bodybuilding has made AAS so available over the past few years, everyone is jumping in too quickly. They are wasting money for AAS to pump into a weak body with no base whatsoever.

[TrueIce]

I don't judge either.. If someone wants to do that then that's entirely their choice.. If they asked my opinion I'd tell them what I thought, but judging them is pointless because it doesn't in anyway affect how you continue to live your life..

Unless your competing against them in something and they are cheating..

[Blueyoshun]

I'm sorry OP, but I'd have to say this is a bad if not dangerous article.

There is not a lot of wisdom in your words. You are saying "You should not judge. But you have judged them favorably already, so you are really saying, taking roids is ok."

"I try not to judge them, because they just don't live life the way
we do."

I've been to a farm before and I know what BS smells like, and this is BS for sure.

The reason why taking roids is seen in such a bad light is because in general it is, simple put, a stupid thing to do.

You're trying to be sympathetic to theirs motives, but you haven't really understood the real reasons why people do them.

They are:

#1 People take it so they don't have to work as hard as others to look decent.
#2 People take it so they can have an edge over other competitors.

The number of people who go to the doctor and try to use roids in the most intelligent and least damaging way is so small that you'd have to be pretty oblivious to not think that there was cause for concern.

I am very worried about someone who doesn't judge the way roids are used by the general public as something dangerous and deserving of judgment.

You sympathize with roid users. Great for you. But remember there are young kids and uninformed people reading these forums and your incentive for the use of roids might just be helping screw their lives up.

On the other hand, if people do decide to use roids, the should get all they information they can and make an informed decision and not trust the ideas and opinions of anyone else, because, after all, they will have to live with the consequences of their acts, whether they're good or bad.

[Braap105]

You're trying to be sympathetic to theirs motives, but you haven't really understood the real reasons why people do them.

They are:

#1 People take it so they don't have to work as hard as others to look decent.
#2 People take it so they can have an edge over other competitors.



I get the second point, but do you really thing that just becuase some people take steriods they dont try as hard? as to my belief it allows them to train even more intesnly then before..... so i dont see how u say they try less....

[Blueyoshun]

I get the second point, but do you really thing that just becuase some people take steriods they dont try as hard? as to my belief it allows them to train even more intesnly then before..... so i dont see how u say they try less....

Well, you see, I am talking about most people I know who do that. Of course there can be those who do work harder when doing it, but it's certainly not the majority.

Also, they might train with intensity, but the fact still remains that usually the decision to do it is based on the fact that you can have in 3 months the results you'd have to train a year or 2 to achieve. That was my point.

On the other hand, I have known people whose testosterone levels were a lot lower than they should be. They found that out by going to the doctor, and the doctor prescribed a very specific amount that they should take and he followed it with the proper tests, etc. This is a case where I see no problems. But how often are people this careful. To the best of my knowledge, not often at all. That's why I wrote what I wrote.

[Sourapple]

watch bigger, stronger, faster. good documentary that will change your outlook on alot of things.


i see nothing wrong with gear as long as you understand why your doing it.

[Blueyoshun]

watch bigger, stronger, faster. good documentary that will change your outlook on alot of things.


i see nothing wrong with gear as long as you understand why your doing it.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will watch it.

[Joemassey]

about the article at the start, yes i would judge the cyclists, but not because of jealous or any other stupid reason but because they are gaining an unfair advantage against their opponents who do abide by the sports rules, if your taking roids where they are not against the sports rules then knock yourself out, but not when they give you an unfair advantage like in a sport like cycling.

[Mac1983]

IMO I used to judge steriod users and put them in a really bad light but as the years go on and with training as hard as I do i think its alittle crazy to say that users dont train hard. Again IMO after doing as much reading as I can on the subject and still there is more to go just because people "juice" doesnt mean they can train any less they can and probably do twice as much as the rest because they will get the results from "overtraining" while on cycle.
Bodybuilders get put into a bad light because its plain to see the pros will all deny it because well its ilegal for starters but other sports its not so easy to spot.
Lets take sprinters now you cant see it just by looking at them but how many do you think can naturally run under 10secs day in day out (not saying everyone does it btw).

My main issue is really the lack of knowledge that young guys/girls have and start doing it without putting in a good 5-10years before making a well imformed choice to go on a cycle and also guys that compete in natural comps but juice.

[DennenElose]

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диета

[DennenElose]

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диета

[DennenElose]

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диета

[sneakerfresh9]

yes .. keep morale up =)
agreed

[redflare]

I couldn't agree with you more, nothing is more frustrating than talking to someone about steroids who watched something on 60 minutes and now they think they are a friggin' biochemist. Even the doctor that I work for who's undergraduate is in biochemistry doesn't know anything about steroids.

Im happy to see this subject talked about, and people with open minds not going to the "HE SAID SHE SAID" extremes. Im glad to see comments like jonathan's and gene's trying to help the people with one sided opinions. People really are too concernded with what others do. But I no expert on this subject either so thats all I can comment on it.

Next time you see a huge / ungodly strong guy/gal just remember my saying.
If you have the means, then by all means!

[SurvivalX]

I honestly don't mind if individuals use steroids. It is primarily their choice and as others have pointed out in previous posts, the side effects are extremely exaggerated to those who know only minimal information on the subject.

With any sport/hobby/walk in life (and body building isn't exclusive) you are going to have extremists. You see it every day; Some people are only somewhat into their religion while others live their lives by it.

And there is hate and jealousy involved because no matter what you do as a natural body builder you are going to work harder and longer to achieve less and so it is, in those minds, 'cheating'. But cheating is just a point of view.

[G2TheUdda]

I don't use cell tech but I have been thinking about doing it.

The average person wouldn't understand why I would do it because we have completely different mentalities. Like OP said all we want to do is win, be at the top and doing anything to get there. Sacrifices have to be made. I have very high expectations of myself and I do not plan on being mediocre and average like all the billions of people that are here and that have been here already. I won't be satisfied with being average or normal. A lot of people are satisfied with nothing and I refuse to be one of those people.

BB is a unique sport and one of the hardest sports out there. BB is completely individual, if you succeed its because of you and only you, if you fail its because of you and only you. It is a way of pursuing self-worth and personal validation, of finding satisfaction in your ability to set goals for yourself and working to reach them.

The people saying that bodybuilders use cell tech because its a shortcut and can get you bigger, faster are uninformed. Bodybuilders get on cell tech to become the best at bodybuilding. To think that they work less is stupid. Bodybuilders have the strictest lives. They have to diet 24/7, go to the gym everyday, and most of all have the patience and determination to keep doing what they do. "Patience?!" some of you say. Yess patience, cell tech gives you amazing gains when you initially take it, after taking it for years its not the same. The body will work normally and muscle gains aren't going to come as easy as when you first did it. For example, you might gain 30 lbs of muscle when you first take it but then as you go on you gain less and less. They definitely deserve respect for sacrificing their health to be the best they can be at what they love doing most and not settling in to the "normal" way of life.

Bodybuilding isn't a sport of only how much muscle you have, it judges aesthicism, porportionality. Bodybuilders are like a sculptors in which they have to look in a mirror and see what is lacking, what area needs more muscle, etc.. Which comes from hard work and determination adding muscle isn't an easy task for anyone even cyclist.

This is the reason why I would do it, and am planning on doing it in my future.

Then again bodybuilding is a cult and only the people that do it really know why they do it.

[felicibusbrevis]

Bodybuilding isn't a sport of only how much muscle you have, it judges aesthicism, porportionality. Bodybuilders are like a sculptors in which they have to look in a mirror and see what is lacking, what area needs more muscle, etc.. Which comes from hard work and determination adding muscle isn't an easy task for anyone even cyclist.

This is the reason why I would do it, and am planning on doing it in my future.

Then again bodybuilding is a cult and only the people that do it really know why they do it.

But the standards of bodybuilding are false social constructs, with criteria set by someone external to the self. If you are a sculptor with a true aesthetic idea, its YOUR idea of perfection that should matter. I look in the mirror, weighing in the mid 130 lb range, and I think at times, I am happy, this is what I want to be, no one has told me what beauty is, I see it in myself, and I used nothing but myself to get there.

In competitive sports, you have to abide by the rules or risk disqualification. Bodybuilding is unfortunately so size driven that its criteria have become UNHEALTHY. That vast amount of muscle requires huge reserves of oxygen, those super low bodyfats coupled with EXTREME excess muscle that the body would tear down before the fat if given a choice is working against so many natural principals.

When you compete in a sport that is subjective, you take away the artistic liberty, because its whatever that judging panel says is lacking in your body that holds sway over how you develop. This is why I don't care for it as a sport. In boxing, in MMA, in football, there is usually a clear cut case that can be made for someone "winning" even though occasionally styles may make judging difficult and a little bit of subjectivity comes in, that is the exception rather than the rule. Beauty contests, bodybuilding contests, are entirely subjective, and I honestly refuse to believe that, say, Ronnie Coleman, is more perfect than someone like Marvin Hagler, who has muscle, control, style, economy of motion, mastery of a sport. He's just a hell of a lot smaller.

I feel like steroids are an inescapable part of bodybuilding, but that you must realize you aren't pandering to your aesthetic values, but the false, transitory, fickle ones of a judging body.

[genius1265]

My simple opinion is that juicing to maximize your potential for a competitive sport is fine as long as everyone you are competitng against has the same edge.

This is the kind of crap that bugs me, roids can level the playing field. If say a cyclist as the OP stated in the begining was to use performance enhancing drugs that brought him up to the elite class and say he wins a big race, did he deserve to win? Should he win just because others did not want to take a unnecessary health risk? If Joe schmo can beat Lance Armstrong (lets not get into his alleged doping) well Joe schmo aint shiz once Lance starts using too. Its cheating and it ruins the integrity. Not everyone was meant to be a champion, accept it. Bodybuilding is the only sport that it is accepted, but it is also the name of the game. Natural shows are not fair because no one can guarantee that no one else is using.

[ramacc]

Just a thought.
But IMO i don't care if i live past 65, no disprespect to the elder generation at all but i wouuld rather live my life to the absolute max now and do everything i wan't before i become old.

For example for those people who have seent he film braveheart, one of the quotes is
"And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance."

Which is basically what i mean, i wan't to do everything early on instead of pondering what could've been 60 years on. So if that means taking roids, training for competitions and having the time of my life then so be it.

Oh dear. Deary, deary me.....look at this kid's age and then, when that's sunk in re-read the twoddle he wrote and tell me it's all ok.
ah well, at least if he doesn't care about being over 65 that'll be one less for our creaking social services to deal with. (and I'll bet my worldly possesions that, if he's still about, he'll be thinking a teeny bit differently when he's pushing forty!)

[tominho7]

I wouldn't go as far to say i respect athlethes that dope,but i definetly understand.

It is so ironic that society puts so much pressure on them to perform at the higest level constantly, but doesn't like the drugs that can make this a reality.

Professional sports are filled with a boat load of drugs. It is just that not everyone who dopes gets caught.

[BoywodayHed]

Has anyone saved video from Youtube? There are free sites that say you can save the video to your computer using an URL, but I need to save the clips and then edit them. Im still working in WMM...Thanks for any information

[HalcyonDays]

Just a thought.
But IMO i don't care if i live past 65, no disprespect to the elder generation at all but i wouuld rather live my life to the absolute max now and do everything i wan't before i become old.

For example for those people who have seent he film braveheart, one of the quotes is
"And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance."

Which is basically what i mean, i wan't to do everything early on instead of pondering what could've been 60 years on. So if that means taking roids, training for competitions and having the time of my life then so be it.

This is a ridiculous statement. You have no idea as to what it is like to be 65 so saying you'd never want to live past that age is ignorant. Surveys have repeatedly show that the over 65 set is the happiest. What's more, if you take care of yourself there is no reason why you can't continue to be healthy and active right into your 80's or even beyond.

[HalcyonDays]

people hate steroids because they fear what they don't know, most people don't even know what they are, they just think it's a magic pill or injection that somehow magically makes you into a great athlete. I think Christian Boeving hit the nail right on the head in bigger, stronger, faster and some proceeding interviews when he said people need to be smarter than to think that they can take a pill and they'll look like him and there's a huge difference between steroid use and steroid abuse, and if you just educate people about steroids then maybe people will be a bit more accepting

Pretty amazed that people consider Boeving's movie to be accurate. It is entirely based on anecdotal evidence with the opinions of a few discredited doctors tossed in their for credibility.

[Fumnnailymn]

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[CPTKCP]

The issue with the use of steroids [from what i understand] is that it gives someone an advantage in their sport. The idea is for everyone to start out as equals and the person who wins, wins based on ability not by outside stimulus.

It isn't just steroids though that are the problem. Take Tiger Woods for example, he plays golf, a sport which requires good eye sight. He goes and has lasik eye surgery done and his vision is now 20/15 nearly perfect. IMO that's cheating because he now has an advantage over someone else competing who has lesser eyesight.

What about the use of cortico steroids? It's okay for you to get a cortisone injection in your back to help you perform but anabolic steroids aren't allowed? Cortico steroids can be just as damaging to the body with prolonged use.

What about the use of an altitude chamber? You sleep in it overnight and it increases your red blood cells. Taking erythropoietin is considered illegal but does the same thing the altitude chamber does.

I will continue to judge those who "cheat". I think it is a far better accomplishment for someone to say they got their with hard work and dedication rather than with a substance.

Definitely agree. You take a preworkout supplement, that gives you an edge. It's legal but it's still an edge. In fact, there hits a point where food all just becomes means to an end, really. Are you eating that steak and eggs for the same reason your mother's eating pancakes and toast? Doubtful. So could you say that abusing food for athletic purposes is an unfair advantage?

I mean it gets pretty blurry to draw a strict line there. By one way of thinking, one can say (like you), "Any kind of ergogenic aid, legal or not, ruins the sincerity/honesty/etc in the sport. It becomes all about winning."

Conversely, one can say, "My 'natural' friend takes about 15 different supplements, calculates and weighs every meal, times each workout and meal as perfectly as possible, doesn't pump his own gas because some study said there's a compound in it that could lower testosterone, and drinks 7 cups of green tea a day for antioxidants, yet I'm the bastard for a low dose clen/test stack so I can achieve my goals but still keep my life?"

I've personally never geared but have no negative judgments towards those who do for that exact reason. It's all means to an end, really, so it's just a matter of what you have access to and how far you're willing to go.






On a side note: is there even such a thing as fair? I mean genetic predispositions and things along those lines will give some people an unfair advantage over others from the get-go. Not even externally, but internally these people have an edge over the competition so is anything even really fair to begin with?


Oh, perception..

[xjado321]

you shouldn't judge them as it still takes hardwork to see results with steroids

[stanzione1017]

The movie Bigger Stronger Faster gives many good comparisons of the use of Gear to other enhancements used in sports, such as Tiger Woods lasic eye surgery which made his vision better than 20-20 and depth perseption is very important in golf..

Otherwise i suppose its the persons choice wether they want to be their very best possible, regardless of risk.

The thing that bothers me though, is all the people who would knock a enhanced athlete are the same ones putting money in the athletes pocket by going to watch the games or buying their clothing, so they are supporting yet against it?

People should just mind their own buisness and let others do as they please, not like it harms other people..

[Team1anabolic]

I think its pointless for the most part, for me I would rather do it on my own then cheat my way there. Also whats the point , if you arent professional bodybuilder or athlete. The damage to your body just isn't worth it for me personally.