Animal's Training Log + Training Videos (Kurt Weidner)

[RichKnapp]

Loved the videos. Thanks

[chuckles_345]

Awesome vids as usual. I want to train legs now, but unfortunately I'll have to wait until Thursday. Thanks again for posting them and providing motivation.

Chuckles

[Animal76]

D-Bell Press (slight incline)
50'sx10,75'sx10,100'sx10 (warm-ups)
120'sx8,135'sx3,100'sx12,100'sx7
Cable Flys
100x16,10,10
drop:100x10>80x7>60x12
BM Chest Press
300x9,300x5
drop: 295x5>220x5>140x6
Push-ups (feet on ball, hand on d-bells)
20,15,12
Tricep Pushdown
120x14,7 100x16
drop100x13>80x7>60x10>40x16
Decline Skull Crushers
110x5,90x10,90x10,90x6
Rope Pushdown
60x18,10 50x20
Dips
20,15

[Animal76]

I'm taking a break from logging my workouts for a few weeks. Vaughan and I have switched gears slightly and are moving towards workouts with higher volume, intensity and faster pace: More reps, less rest in between sets (very minimal rest actually), more supersets, drop sets, etc. With the pace of the workouts, I don't have time to write things down in between sets. It's a nice change of pace. Our workouts are generally pretty fast paced to begin with, so elevating the pace even more should really help with overall conditioning. I will resume logging down the road a bit.

[lth]

^I've been running with that approach lately as well.....noticed a much more solid pump and euphoric feeling afterwards. Nice change of pace.

Keep killin' it kurt, can't wait to see what you bring to the stage next time man.

[The Solution]

One of the best articles i have read in a while, Awesome quotes and great motivation Kurt.

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/LayzieBone085/kurt.jpg

[Animal76]

Thanks, Glad you liked the article


One of the best articles i have read in a while, Awesome quotes and great motivation Kurt.

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/LayzieBone085/kurt.jpg

[Animal76]

Vaughan and I started a new training approach that I came up with today, which combines different strategies. The workouts are going to be broken into 3 sections:
1) power/strength
2) anaerobic/muscular endurance & hypertrophy
3) fascia stretching (implementing a bit of FST-7)

each of the main workouts will start with a compound movement, for which we focus on building power and strength. After warming up we hit a weight for 5 sets of 5 reps. This needs to be a weight that can successfully be performed for 5x5 the first week. With success, weight is increased incrementally the following week. The idea here is to increase the amount of weight we're able to work with on bigger movements such as incline bb press, squats, trap bar deadlifts, shoulder presses, etc and focus on repetitive bouts with the same weight rather than completely exhausting the muscle on a set to failure. By the 5th set we should be very close to failure on the 5th rep.

The second part of the workout will be the bulk, where we exhaust the muscles more with higher reps (generally 12-20 reps) with shorter rest in between sets. The goal here is to maximize muscle fiber recruitment, attain hypertrophy and improve muscular endurance.

The workout is finished implementing the FST-7 fascia stretching principle with 7 sets of 8-12 reps with more of an isolation/machine based exercise.

Here's today's workout:

Incline BB
255x5,5,5,5,5

D-Bell Flys on Swiss Ball
65'sx20,75'sx20,85'sx11,75'sx12,65'sx14
Dips
100x10,45x19,bdywtx32
Tricep Pushdown
100x25,16,13
HS Decline
270x8,6,180x12
Decline Skull Crushers
90x12,10 (elbows hurt like hell!)

(7's) BM Chest Press Machine
295x4,250x7,220x7,220x6,175x9,145x12,145x12

[AllDai]

Kurt, I like the new approach...a little bit of everything. I'm going to give it a try starting tomorrow.

[Animal76]

Trap Bar Deadlifts
495x5,5,5,5,5
WG PullDown
280x15,280x10,260x10,240x10,220x12
Unilateral Leg press
2plx20,4plx20,6plx20
HS DY Row
270x12,10,8,180x17
Cable Curls
20,12,10
Calf Raises on BM Leg Press Machine
400(stack)x12,10,9,9,8,8,8
Seated Cable Row w/ split handle
200x12,10,8,8,7 180x8,8

[lth]

How lean do you typically stay in the offseason kurt? I know you were talking about how you operate better when you're leaner, i've tended to notice the same. The past two preps i've seemed to almost grow into the show in some areas and strength is almost as good if not better in some lifts, granted this is due to probably just being in shape and being able to pump out more reps but.....do you tend to say around 8-10% you'd say?

[Animal76]

Typical off-season bodyfat for me is around 5.5 - 7% based on 7 point caliper/skinfold test. Last year from the fall to the spring my weight was generally around 216 lbs and last fall ('08) at that weight my bodyfat was 5.75%
Right now i'm hanging around 218-220 lbs


How lean do you typically stay in the offseason kurt? I know you were talking about how you operate better when you're leaner, i've tended to notice the same. The past two preps i've seemed to almost grow into the show in some areas and strength is almost as good if not better in some lifts, granted this is due to probably just being in shape and being able to pump out more reps but.....do you tend to say around 8-10% you'd say?

[BFJ]

The current split we're using:

M: Back + Shoulders
T: Legs - full leg workout
W: rest
T: Chest + Tris
F: Back + Bis
S: Calves + Traps + abs
S: Rest
M: Legs- hams, glute focus
T: Chest + Front and side delts
W: Rest
T: Back + rear delts
F: legs - Quad and calf focus
S: Chest + arms
S: Rest


We're continuing to train in somewhat high volume. Right now my main goal is to be able to train without pain and without limitations. My knees and elbows are feeling better, but my shoulders are still giving me trouble and holding me back on many of my upper body exercises. My overall approach is pretty similar to what i've used in the past (not sure how successful it's actually been). High volume, variety of exercises, most working sets in the 8-12 range, fast-paced workouts, inclusion of supersets and drop sets.

I need to get leaner and stay leaner! I have been doing cardio every day and aim towards improving overall work capacity within each workout every day.

As far as higher fat, lower carb, everyone is different and responds differently to different approaches. Having said that, I think that it's important to realize there are diminishing marginal returns to any macronutrient. There are limits to how high or low any nutrient should be before the benefit is erased and the extremes become negative. Inclusion of fat is important and very beneficial, but there's a point which becomes too much.
It's also important to realize that as one's body composition changes, the way he/she metabolizes nutrients also changes. This is why the approach used needs to be modified along the way. You can't just follow a simple one rule approach.

hey kurt i've watched some of your vids, etc. and u r a great example of what can be done as a natural bodybuilder. i am 23 and you are 34 and even at my age i have nagging knee, elbow, and shoulder issues and that is what brought my eye to this section of your thread. lol, i need to get to bed, but couldn't stop reading this stuff as i think about my future. don't get me wrong, i tend to have a balls to the wall approach, take most all sets to failure, constantly looking to add weight, etc. on the other hand the more i deal with these nagging injuries the more i question if my long term progress would be better backing off a little more (already i know when to take some time off, lighten up, etc., so i'm not a complete dumba** that just bul'dozes through severe pain). i have observed a lot of great natural bodybuilders as a fan of the sport and as i get ready to start competing myself and i seem to have noticed a general trend:

- the more constant balls to the wall guys make crazy fast progress when they're healthy and make the more marathon type trainers look like they better pick up the pace

BUT

- the more marathon type guys (still train hard, but not so OCD on constant workout to workout progression in weight) seem to have less down time or backing off time and so although the progress may be slower, it may add up to more over time.

what are your thoughts on the above and looking back on the earlier part of your career would you have approached training any differently in regards to injury prevention? thanks a lot; best of luck in upcoming shows!

[Animal76]

As i've gotten older, i've gotten smarter about how I train. I don't see anything wrong with an aggressive approach to training, but there are some fundamentals that are crucial for longevity

1) It is important to schedule appropriate rest days. I find that more than 5 days of weight training is too much and more than 2-3 days in a row is too much.
2) You have to know when to back off or switch things up. Is something hurts, don't aggravate it more. It is inevitable to have nagging injuries when you've been training for 20+ years. You have to listen to your body
3) There is a difference between working out as hard as your body will allow (getting an optimal workout) and trying to go heavy every single time you workout. Some days you just have to do what you can or what your body will allow.
4) Consistency over time is the name of the game.


hey kurt i've watched some of your vids, etc. and u r a great example of what can be done as a natural bodybuilder. i am 23 and you are 34 and even at my age i have nagging knee, elbow, and shoulder issues and that is what brought my eye to this section of your thread. lol, i need to get to bed, but couldn't stop reading this stuff as i think about my future. don't get me wrong, i tend to have a balls to the wall approach, take most all sets to failure, constantly looking to add weight, etc. on the other hand the more i deal with these nagging injuries the more i question if my long term progress would be better backing off a little more (already i know when to take some time off, lighten up, etc., so i'm not a complete dumba** that just bul'dozes through severe pain). i have observed a lot of great natural bodybuilders as a fan of the sport and as i get ready to start competing myself and i seem to have noticed a general trend:

- the more constant balls to the wall guys make crazy fast progress when they're healthy and make the more marathon type trainers look like they better pick up the pace

BUT

- the more marathon type guys (still train hard, but not so OCD on constant workout to workout progression in weight) seem to have less down time or backing off time and so although the progress may be slower, it may add up to more over time.

what are your thoughts on the above and looking back on the earlier part of your career would you have approached training any differently in regards to injury prevention? thanks a lot; best of luck in upcoming shows!

[Animal76]

Shoulders & Back

HS Shoulder Press
300x5,5,5,5,5
Barbell Rows
295x5,5,5,5,5

Lateral Raises/Front Raises/Upright Rows (alternating)
25'sx12 (36 total reps),30'sx10,30'sx10,25'sx10
Close Grip Pull Downs
220x15,240x10,240x8,220x10,180x12
Barbell Shrugs (paused reps)
315x20,405x12,495x8
HS Lat Pull Down
270 (3plates per side)x12,8,7 180x16
Cable Upright Rows
160x12,200x8,160x10,160x10

Wide Grip Pronated Seated Cable Row (minimal rest in between sets)
220x15,220x12,220x8,200x10,200x8,180x10,180x10
Nautilus Lateral Raise (minimal rest in between sets)
200x15,12,8,8,8,8,8

[BFJ]

As i've gotten older, i've gotten smarter about how I train. I don't see anything wrong with an aggressive approach to training, but there are some fundamentals that are crucial for longevity

1) It is important to schedule appropriate rest days. I find that more than 5 days of weight training is too much and more than 2-3 days in a row is too much.
2) You have to know when to back off or switch things up. Is something hurts, don't aggravate it more. It is inevitable to have nagging injuries when you've been training for 20+ years. You have to listen to your body
3) There is a difference between working out as hard as your body will allow (getting an optimal workout) and trying to go heavy every single time you workout. Some days you just have to do what you can or what your body will allow.
4) Consistency over time is the name of the game.

thanks, so if i were to put that into that 2 approach comparison of using more of the patient/consistent trainer vs. a really obsessively progressive approach it sounds like you're saying go with obsessively progressive with a smart mix of the patient consistency game mixed in? in other words obsessively progressive has its risks, but when done smartly its rewards outweight those risks? thanks, and sorry, not trying to make what u said confusing, i guess maybe i was looking for you to take a side, when in reality as it sounds we both recognize there should be a blend of the two.

[Animal76]

agreed


thanks, so if i were to put that into that 2 approach comparison of using more of the patient/consistent trainer vs. a really obsessively progressive approach it sounds like you're saying go with obsessively progressive with a smart mix of the patient consistency game mixed in? in other words obsessively progressive has its risks, but when done smartly its rewards outweight those risks? thanks, and sorry, not trying to make what u said confusing, i guess maybe i was looking for you to take a side, when in reality as it sounds we both recognize there should be a blend of the two.

[Scivation]

As i've gotten older, i've gotten smarter about how I train. I don't see anything wrong with an aggressive approach to training, but there are some fundamentals that are crucial for longevity

1) It is important to schedule appropriate rest days. I find that more than 5 days of weight training is too much and more than 2-3 days in a row is too much.
2) You have to know when to back off or switch things up. Is something hurts, don't aggravate it more. It is inevitable to have nagging injuries when you've been training for 20+ years. You have to listen to your body
3) There is a difference between working out as hard as your body will allow (getting an optimal workout) and trying to go heavy every single time you workout. Some days you just have to do what you can or what your body will allow.
4) Consistency over time is the name of the game.

This is DEAD ON! Good stuff Kurt!

[thepacman]

As i've gotten older, i've gotten smarter about how I train. I don't see anything wrong with an aggressive approach to training, but there are some fundamentals that are crucial for longevity

1) It is important to schedule appropriate rest days. I find that more than 5 days of weight training is too much and more than 2-3 days in a row is too much.
2) You have to know when to back off or switch things up. Is something hurts, don't aggravate it more. It is inevitable to have nagging injuries when you've been training for 20+ years. You have to listen to your body
3) There is a difference between working out as hard as your body will allow (getting an optimal workout) and trying to go heavy every single time you workout. Some days you just have to do what you can or what your body will allow.
4) Consistency over time is the name of the game.

Wow awesome advice Kurt! Each one of those points hits home. I really admire your direct approach to training and the bodybuilding lifestyle. Your articles have been one of my favorites in NB&F.

[zmcdole]

You really are an animal!!! Haha!! Seriously, I'm excited to see what I look like when I'm your age. You're an inspiration.

[muscleandgains]

I'm taking a break from logging my workouts for a few weeks. Vaughan and I have switched gears slightly and are moving towards workouts with higher volume, intensity and faster pace: More reps, less rest in between sets (very minimal rest actually), more supersets, drop sets, etc. With the pace of the workouts, I don't have time to write things down in between sets. It's a nice change of pace. Our workouts are generally pretty fast paced to begin with, so elevating the pace even more should really help with overall conditioning. I will resume logging down the road a bit.

are you still pushing heavy weight or more concerned with lighter weight but form and supersets? ive been trying to d the same but dont know what to focus on more..also how many sets per large bodypart?? 35-40? i love your style so i am very interested,you also iht

[Animal76]

Thanks Marc!


This is DEAD ON! Good stuff Kurt!

[Animal76]

Glad to hear that you enjoy the articles.


Wow awesome advice Kurt! Each one of those points hits home. I really admire your direct approach to training and the bodybuilding lifestyle. Your articles have been one of my favorites in NB&F.

[Animal76]

The great thing about bbing is that with a persistently discplined approach you can continue to get better with age.


You really are an animal!!! Haha!! Seriously, I'm excited to see what I look like when I'm your age. You're an inspiration.

[Animal76]

If you look at post #758, I outlined the new approach i'm using, which I have implemented during the last 4 workouts. You can see what the sets, reps, and weight look like with this method in the workouts i've logged since then.


are you still pushing heavy weight or more concerned with lighter weight but form and supersets? ive been trying to d the same but dont know what to focus on more..also how many sets per large bodypart?? 35-40? i love your style so i am very interested,you also iht

[Animal76]

Legs
Squats
435x5,5,5,5,5

BM Lying Leg Curls
160x13,175x7,175x5,160x5,130x11
Standing Calf Raises on Squat Machine
8plx12,12plx12,12plx812plx812plx7
Leg Press
6plx15,12plx15,18plx10,14plx20
Seated Calf Raises
135x15,180x10,180x10,180x8,135x16
Hyperextension w/ 45 lb plate
12,12,10

Leg Ext
240x20,12,9,8,8,7,7

[muscleandgains]

M: Back + Shoulders
T: Legs - full leg workout
W: rest
T: Chest + Tris
F: Back + Bis
S: Calves + Traps + abs
S: Rest
M: Legs- hams, glute focus
T: Chest + Front and side delts
W: Rest
T: Back + rear delts
F: legs - Quad and calf focus
S: Chest + arms
S: Rest

in this scenario how many sets not including the fst7

[Animal76]

we do 5x5 for power in a compound movement (squats, deads, presses, etc). Yesterday we did 2 power movements (5x5 for shoulder press and 5x5 for bb rows)

the central, 2nd phase of the workout is usually 4-5 exercises, so at least another 20 sets and then we finish with the FST7 which could be one or two exercises.

Yesterday for shoulders and back, we did a power movement for both and a 7 set finisher for both, which means 10 sets of power in the beginning of the workout and 14 sets of FST-7 at the end, in addition to 21 sets in the middle of the workout (2nd phase)...total of 45 sets.


M: Back + Shoulders
T: Legs - full leg workout
W: rest
T: Chest + Tris
F: Back + Bis
S: Calves + Traps + abs
S: Rest
M: Legs- hams, glute focus
T: Chest + Front and side delts
W: Rest
T: Back + rear delts
F: legs - Quad and calf focus
S: Chest + arms
S: Rest

in this scenario how many sets not including the fst7

[Animal76]

Incline Barbell Press
265 x 5,5,5,5,5

HS Incline
360x7,360x4,270x14
Incline Cable Flys
80x12,100x6,80x8,60x12
Incline Skull Crushers
110x21,15,10
Dips
35,16,11
Tricep Pushdown w/ circular attachment + backpad
90x12,90x8,80x10,80x10

Pec Deck
175x12,175x6,160x6,145x8,130x10,115x10,115x10
Tricep Rope Pushdown
50x30,16,12,12,12,12,12

[Animal76]

Trap Bar Deadlifts
545x5,5,5,5,5

H-Squat (one leg)
4plx15,6plx12,8plx6
Close Grip Pull Downs
220x15,240x8,220x10,220x8
Walking Lunges
65's,85's,85's (10 steps each leg each set)
Reverse Hypers
140x15,210x10,210x10

T-Bar Row w/ Chest pad
3plx12,3plx8,3plx6,2plx10,2plx9,2plx8,2plx8

[BFJ]

agreed

thanks

[AustrianOakJr]

Wow awesome advice Kurt! Each one of those points hits home. I really admire your direct approach to training and the bodybuilding lifestyle.

+1 ^^ Yup, even at the ripe old age of 30, im feeling it. My body just doesnt take the abuse it did when I was 20. Right now my knee and my elbow are kinda tweaked. A couple weeks ago it was my shoulder. One thing after another. Nothing serious, but just enough to make me realize its only gonna get harder as time goes on. Good advice.


Your articles have been one of my favorites in NB&F.

^ YUP!! Well.....my favorite right next to Fred Dimenna's articles where he calls me names and drags me through the mud. ;) But yea!

[muscleandgains]

started these style workouts today and i was beat but i felt amazing!! strong yet stressed fro such high pase and could barely finish the last part but man i loved every minute of it!

[Animal76]

HS Shoulder Press
310x5,5,5,5,5
Barbell Rows
315x5,5,5,5,5

Seated Lateral D-Bell Raises
40'sx25,15,12,12,10,10,8,8
WG Lat Pull Down
240x20,15,10,10,10
HS Shrugs (pauses)
360x20,450x12,450x10,360x12
One Arm Cable Low Row
120x12,150x10,140x10
Reverse Flys
4 sets

Cable Upright Rows
7 sets

[ConLaV]

Motivating words, Kurt-
Another weekend in paradise. What was I doing? Thinking about blasting shoulders on a Sunday morning when all the other f***ers are still sleeping. Saturday morning my ass was on the treadmill at 6am thinking about what I needed to do this season so I can bring it when I step onstage. Of all the horrible things in life that can happen to you, disappointment is the worst…probably because it’s usually the result something you had the ability to control. 11 weeks…that means a limited number of opportunities to leave it all out there, so when I step onstage I’ll know I took every measure possible to be my best. How many others can say that? It doesn’t matter. All I worry about is me. If the guy standing next to me at the end of the night on show day worked as hard and was able to beat my best I’ll turn to him, shake his hand and congratulate him….but if he beats anything less than my best, then I will forever question myself and live with the pain until given the opportunity to redeem myself. For 18 weeks that’s what I’ll be thinking about because I’d rather endure any degree of pain in the gym on a daily basis than live with the pain of knowing I could have been better!!!”

[Animal76]

Well, it's been quite awhile since i've been on here at all, but I just wanted to mention that I just started a new facebook page dedicated just to bodybuilding, fitness, training, nutrition, etc.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Kurt-Weidner-WNBF-Pro-Natural-Bodybuilder/114419755271714?ref=sgm

I will be keeping this updated and posting on it regularly

[Animal76]

Thursday, July 22, 2010
Shoulder & Triceps
Seated Lateral D-Bell Raises
25’sx15.35’sx15,50’sx15,60’sx7,60’sx7,50’sx16,40’s x23,30’sx25
Hammer Strength Shoulder Press
1 plate per side x10, 2 plates per side x10, 3plates per side x10,6,2plates per side x 22
D-Bell Upright Rows
50’sx12,10,10,10
Tricep Pushdown
120x20,130x10,120x12
Drop: 100x30>75x10>50x15
Reverse Flys on Pec Deck
130x12,160x8,5,130x12
Cable Upright Rows
160x15,200x10,200x7,150x15
Close Grip Press on machine
295x5,295x5,250x8,220x10
Tricep Rope Pushdown
75x15,90x8,75x10
Front D-Bell Raises
40’sx10,30’sx10

[muscleandgains]

Great to see you posting Kurt. What's your diet been as of late?

[Animal76]

Hamstrings, Lower Back, Glutes, Calves

Deadlifts
SLDL
Standing Unilateral Leg Curl
HS Calf Raise
Unilateral Leg Press
Seated Calf Raises
Hyperextension

[Animal76]

Meal 1: muffins made from 2 whole eggs (using the eggs that have 660 mg omega 3's), spinach, 1 cup liquid eggwhites, 1 cup oats

Meal 2: 6oz chicken, 4 oz broccoli, .5 cup oats (sometimes more), 2 tblspn hummus, 14 almonds

Meal 3: 2-3 scoops Solution 5 + whey

Meal 4: (preworkout)6oz chicken or lean beef, 1 cup brown rice, 1 cup quinoa, hummus, sometimes broccoli

Meal 5 (post-workout): 2 scoops Scivation Whey, 1 cup oats, 2 tblspn flaxseed meal

Meal 6: 4-5 oz chicken, .5 cup pinto beans, 3-4oz broccoli, hummus

in between meals 6 & 7 I have an Ezekiel English muffin w/ pb

Meal 7: 1.5 scoops Casein protein, 2 whole eggs

Great to see you posting Kurt. What's your diet been as of late?

[Animal76]

Adjusting the training split again. The structure we have been following for awhile puts Shoulders and Chest on Monday and Thursday (2 days in between to rest overlapping bodyparts) and the two lower body days on tuesday and friday (2 days rest in between). For most of the last year, shoulders has been prioritized with the monday position and our quad dominant leg workout took priority on tuesday (with the secondary lower body workout of lower back/hams/glutes being at the end of the week).
2 major changes: lower body will now be monday and thursday with upper body tuesday/friday and prioritization has been reversed so chest will be hit before shoulders in the new split and lower back/hams/glutes is hit before our main quad workout.

Monday: Lower Back, Hamstrings, Glutes, Calves
Tuesday: Chest & Triceps
Wednesday: Back & Calves
Thursday: Quads and Hamstrongs
Friday: Shoulders, Biceps, Calves

note: biceps could be hit with back on wednesday and extra back could be done on friday. If our back is still sore from Deadlifts on Monday, then Back could be done on friday with shoulders, leaving Wednesday as a lighter day (biceps and calves). This split gives us some flexibility

[Animal76]

Trap Bar Deadlifts
5 sets
Seated Leg Curls
5 sets
Reverse Standing Calf Raises
5 sets
Split Squats on smith machine
5 sets
Seated Calf Raises
5 sets
Hyperextension
3 x 25

[fltallpaul]

Great to see you posting again Kurt, have your injuries healed up? World's this year or you taking the year off with Brian?

[Animal76]

I still tend to have nagging issues, but nothing that stops me from making progress. I just have to be smart and make modifications. Overall my injuries are better and I feel like training is going well.
I'm taking this year off.


Great to see you posting again Kurt, have your injuries healed up? World's this year or you taking the year off with Brian?

[muscleandgains]

Kurt I know in the off season you like to stay very lean. I want to do my first show but I don't wanna bulk up I am very interested in gaining 10to15 pounds tops then leaning out. I know this is an aproach you take so id love any advice or suggestions on the best way to do that.

[Animal76]

I periodically check my bodyfat with the calipers in the off-season, even if just with a 3 site test. This keeps me honest. Right now i'm sitting around 218 lbs at a little under 6% (5.85% on the last measurement). This is pretty typical off-season condition for me, once my body is stabilized. It took awhile for my metabolism to get back to speed after last year's extended season, but since the spring I have been maintaining what I consider to be decent off-season condition. I was probably down closer to 215 lbs when I started slowly adding more fat and carbs (i have now added carbs to all meals except the last one), while cutting back on cardio. My body has responded well to the added calories, because I have not gained any bad weight. I think it's important to get somewhat lean first and then add calories...as your body acclimates and utilizes the extra calories you can continue to add them and fill out. I advocate keeping cardio in during off-season. I think it's good for blood circulation + increasing nutrient uptake. I maintain at least 4 days x 30 minutes during the week in the morning. On the weekends I do a ton of work around the house. I'm pretty much on my feet 7 days a week, between training clients and doing yardwork/housework, so I probably burn more calories than most who have office jobs.
From Monday morning until Saturday evening my diet is on point. Everything is clean, the calories are just higher in the off-season. I will allow a couple of cheat meals between Saturday night and Sunday afternoon, but it's definitely kept under control. Hope this helps


Kurt I know in the off season you like to stay very lean. I want to do my first show but I don't wanna bulk up I am very interested in gaining 10to15 pounds tops then leaning out. I know this is an aproach you take so id love any advice or suggestions on the best way to do that.

[Animal76]

Chest & Triceps
Hammer Strength Incline Press
4 working sets, double drop on last set
Incline D-Bell Flys
6 sets
Dips w/ 90 lb weighted vest
4 sets
Push-ups w/ 90 lb weighted vest (feet elevated)
3 sets of rest/pause, failure reached 3 times on each set
Cable Flys
4 sets, double drop on last set
Tricep Rope Pushdown
4 sets
Close Grip Press
2 stes

[Animal76]

Wide Grip Lat Pull Down
2 warm-ups + 6 working sets
T-Bar Rows
6 sets, double drop on last set
HS Hi Row
5 sets
Alt D-Bell Curls
4 sets
Seated Cable Rows
5 sets
Underhand Pull-ups
4 sets
Rope Pull Downs (rear delts)
4 sets

[Animal76]

Bear Squat superset w/ Leg Press (close stance to failure followed immediately by wide stance)
4 giant sets

Standing Calf Raises
6 sets

Hack Squats
5 sets

BM Lying Leg Curl
7 sets

Leg Extension superset w/ HS Calf Raise
5 sets

Box squats
4 sets

Hyperextension
3 sets

Seated Calf Raise
4 sets

[Animal76]

Shoulders & Arms

Overhead D-Bell Press
3 warm-up sets, 4 working sets

Seated Lateral D-Bell Raises
2 warm-up sets, 7 working sets

Cable Upright Rows
5 sets, double drop on last set

HS Shoulder Press
1 set: 2 plates per side x 25 reps

EZ Bar Curls
4 sets

Tricep Pushdown
3 sets, double drop on last set

Hammer Cable Curls
3 sets

Overhead Ext (french press) on BM shoulder press machine
3 sets

[Animal76]

Deadlifts
4 sets

Abductor & Adductor
4 sets

Seated Leg Curl
5 sets

Standing CR
6 sets

Unilateral Leg Press
5 sets

Seated CR
5 sets

Hyperextension
3 sets

[Animal76]

D-Bell Flys on Ball
40's x 10, 60's x10, 80's x 10, 100's x 16, 115's x 4, 100's x8, 80's x12, 60's x20

HS Incline (slow descent- 6second negative)
3plates per side x 8,6,6,5

Dips w/ 90 lb vest
17,11,10,10

Push-up (feet elevated) w/ 90 lb vest: 10 second rest/pause
set #1: 16,6,3
set #2: 12,4,2

Pec Deck
175x12,190x7,190x7,160x10

Tricep Rope Pushdown
75x18,15,12
75x10>50x15>40x10

Tricep Pushdown with rotating bar (hammer grip)
100x12,7,7

[Animal76]

Highlights from today's chest & triceps workout

D-Bell Flys w/ 100's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFXYwfzudZM

...
Dips w/ 90 lb vest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNfQJjkVFwg


Push-ups w/ 90 lb vest (feet elevated, 10 second rest/pause)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnb6F40F9Sc

[fltallpaul]

Great videos Kurt...I like the vest idea but I am sure someone at my gym would walk away with it. Is that yours?

Looking Thick as usual!

[Animal76]

Fortunately, since I work at the gym, I keep the vest upstairs by my desk in an "employee only" area. This vest is not mine. It belongs to a gym member who is graciously allowing me to use it. It's a MIR pro weighted vest. I am planning on buying a bigger one. The same company makes a 140 lb weighted vest...only catch: it's about $380 not including shipping. Been spending all my money on home improvement lately, so i'm holding out on the vest, but i'll get it soon. I do really like training with the vest. It's something different that can be incorporated into training. It's great for stair sprints! haven't done hills with it yet, but i'm planning on it! One day to do something different, we did giant sets (using the vest) of step-ups followed by walking lunges followed by stair sprints.


Great videos Kurt...I like the vest idea but I am sure someone at my gym would walk away with it. Is that yours?

Looking Thick as usual!

[bballbrett5]

Kurt you're the man! What's the benefit to doing work on the ball? Also don't you worry about it popping or anything?

[Animal76]

Theoretically, using the ball increases proprioception because your muscles have to continually work to stabilize throughout the movement since you're on an unstable surface. When your surface is not stable, your muscles must continually fire to make tiny corrections to keep you balanced. Your essentially adding a role while still forcing them to perform the same weight and reps through the same range of motion, so this should translate to greater muscle fiber recruitment. I also just prefer to do flys on the ball. For whatever reason, it feels better and I do feel like my chest gets a better workout.


Kurt you're the man! What's the benefit to doing work on the ball? Also don't you worry about it popping or anything?

[Animal76]

Wide Grip Lat Pull Down
150x10,220x10,260x20,260x15,260x15

Close Grip Pull Downs
260x7,240x8,240x8
drop:240x6>190x7>140x8

One Arm D-Bell Row
170x20,15,10

HS Front Lat Pull Down
3 plates per side x 12,6,6

HS Hi Row
4 plates per side x 12,8,8
3plates per side x20

Underhand Seated Cable Row
220x10,250x10270x8,270x8

[Animal76]

170 lb D-Bell Rows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEuoXbt4PSo

HS Hi Row (4 plates per side)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGIRxc5aO6I

[musclemass22]

I watched your videos with the vest yesterday and decided to give it a try. I usually just chain up the weight for dips and do bodyweight push-ups. My chest is fried today and it was much easier in between sets not hassling with the chain/belt/plates. I used a 50lb which is not as heavy as I would normally go but worked great. I hopped on the stepmill and started to do intervals with the vest on............I was smoked by the 4th min and had to drop it. I am going to ask my gym owner if I can take it to the track with me and try stairs/lunges. Thanks for the ideas and you are a BEAST!--Brian

[Animal76]

I used the 90 lb vest on the stepmill once at the end of a leg workout for either 5 or 7 min (can't remember). The stepmill by itself is an a$$kicker! Adding weight makes it that much better. I was definitely breathing heavy and sweating pretty damn hard. I'm hitting legs today and may give that a shot again if I have time (I have a client after my workout).

Here is a link for the vest i'm looking at getting:
http://www.mirweightedvest.com/weightedvestpro.asp?id=mir140l


I watched your videos with the vest yesterday and decided to give it a try. I usually just chain up the weight for dips and do bodyweight push-ups. My chest is fried today and it was much easier in between sets not hassling with the chain/belt/plates. I used a 50lb which is not as heavy as I would normally go but worked great. I hopped on the stepmill and started to do intervals with the vest on............I was smoked by the 4th min and had to drop it. I am going to ask my gym owner if I can take it to the track with me and try stairs/lunges. Thanks for the ideas and you are a BEAST!--Brian

[musclemass22]

I used the 90 lb vest on the stepmill once at the end of a leg workout for either 5 or 7 min (can't remember). The stepmill by itself is an a$$kicker! Adding weight makes it that much better. I was definitely breathing heavy and sweating pretty damn hard. I'm hitting legs today and may give that a shot again if I have time (I have a client after my workout).

Here is a link for the vest i'm looking at getting:
http://www.mirweightedvest.com/weightedvestpro.asp?id=mir140l

We have 3 vests at my gym and they had a bucket-full of extra peg-like weights I could have added. Not sure how many I could put in it. Wow! The thought of weighted stepmill AFTER leg day is almosy enough to make me puke. Question for you....do you prep other competitors? I am debating on hiring someone for my next run in the Fall of 2011

[Animal76]

yes, I do help competitors prep. if you're interested you can email me about it: kurt_weidner@yahoo.com


We have 3 vests at my gym and they had a bucket-full of extra peg-like weights I could have added. Not sure how many I could put in it. Wow! The thought of weighted stepmill AFTER leg day is almosy enough to make me puke. Question for you....do you prep other competitors? I am debating on hiring someone for my next run in the Fall of 2011

[Animal76]

4 Giant Sets
Bear Squat + Leg Press (close stance followed by wide stance) + Barbell Squats
(video on the way)

Standing Calf Raises
6 sets

Leg Ext
4 sets

Seated Calf Raises
5 sets

BM Lying Leg Curls
4 sets

Hypers
3 sets

[Animal76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAsA8ZAPgQU

[AustrianOakJr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAsA8ZAPgQU

Madness. THATS a serious set.

Kurt, I read your article on longevity in NB&F and it makes some good sense. Its hitting home now that my SI joints and lower back are bothering me for the umteenth time....the heavy training really takes a toll. I see you dont use bone crushing weight (or at least in the vids I have watched). Do you find that supersets and giant sets is an adequate replacement for very heavy weight and low reps? Or do you still do some real heavy training.

[Animal76]

on legs especially, I have gone towards lots of supersets and/or high reps. It's the only way i can compensate, because most days my knees and lower back can't handle the weight I used to move. Now and again when i'm feeling good i'll throw more weight on, but I honestly think I get better results from total volume.


Madness. THATS a serious set.

Kurt, I read your article on longevity in NB&F and it makes some good sense. Its hitting home now that my SI joints and lower back are bothering me for the umteenth time....the heavy training really takes a toll. I see you dont use bone crushing weight (or at least in the vids I have watched). Do you find that supersets and giant sets is an adequate replacement for very heavy weight and low reps? Or do you still do some real heavy training.

[musclemass22]

Might be a dumb question but....those pants.....do they have some sort of built in support for the knees, like wraps or is that just the design of them?

[Animal76]

I was wearing Rehband knee sleeves

http://www.prowriststraps.com/inc/sdetail/93831


Might be a dumb question but....those pants.....do they have some sort of built in support for the knees, like wraps or is that just the design of them?

[AustrianOakJr]

on legs especially, I have gone towards lots of supersets and/or high reps. It's the only way i can compensate, because most days my knees and lower back can't handle the weight I used to move. Now and again when i'm feeling good i'll throw more weight on, but I honestly think I get better results from total volume.

|That reassures me a bit to hear you say that.....and youre only a few years older than I. With the way my back has been feeling, I feel like I cant keep killing it with the heavy weight forever.

[zmcdole]

on legs especially, I have gone towards lots of supersets and/or high reps. It's the only way i can compensate, because most days my knees and lower back can't handle the weight I used to move. Now and again when i'm feeling good i'll throw more weight on, but I honestly think I get better results from total volume.

I'd be willing to be that those supersets don't hurt for cardio reasons either:)

[Animal76]

yeah, i was sucking wind pretty hard by the end...I can't think of anything that gets the heart rate up faster and/or makes you breathe heavier...not even hill sprints


I'd be willing to be that those supersets don't hurt for cardio reasons either:)

[Animal76]

HS Seated Shrugs
180x10,270x15,360x12,360x10,360x10

HS Shoulder Press
90x10, 180x10,270x12,290x6,320x3,270x8,180x25

One Arm Lateral Cable Raise
50x15,60x15,70x8,70x8
drop:60x12>50x8>40x8>30x12

Tricep Pushdown
120x19,12,12
drop:100x25>75x10>50x15

D-Bell Upright Rows
30'sx20,40'sx15,50'sx8
drop: 50'sx8>40'sx8>30'sx8

Reverse Flys on pec Deck
130x12,145x8,145x8,130x8

[AustrianOakJr]

I just got back from the gym. I gave your giant sets a try. My back is thankful that I wasnt squatting heavy, but I am still dizzy and my vision is all pixelated and blurred....legs are pumped beyond belief. You make it look like a walk in the park, but that is INTENSE! THANKS ;)

[Animal76]

Trap Bar Deadlifts
6 warm-up sets, 4 working sets

HS Calf Raises
6 sets

Seated Leg Curl
5 working sets

Unilateral H-Squat
3 sets

Seated CR
4 sets

Hyperextension
3 sets w/ 45 lb plate

[Animal76]

Chest & Triceps
Incline D-Bell Press
4 sets

HS Decline
4 sets

Cable Flys
4 sets

Skull Crushers
3 sets

Tricep Rope Pushdown
4 sets

Ped Deck
3 sets

[Animal76]

Back

Barbell Rows
135x12,185x10,225x12,295x10,315x6,275x12,225x22

Underhand close grip pull downs
200x12,240x12,280x6,280x5,240x10
drop:220x10>180x6>140x7

T-Bar Rows (close grip, neutral)
3plx12,4plx12,5plx12,5plx12
drop:4plx17>3plx10>2plx10

Stiff Arm lat Pulls
100x12,110x7,100x8,100x8

Alt. D-Bell Curls
3 sets (been taking it easy on biceps in the last week because they aggravate tendons in my left elbow...getting plenty of arm work with back exercises)

HS DY Row
3 plates per side x 12, 10,9,8

[Animal76]

after one more go around with this, I have just decided that I do not like recording my workouts. Writing down weights and reps seems to disrupt the flow of my workout. I prefer to focus on just getting a good workout and not concerning myself with numbers. I often do not even count reps...just go to failure and have an idea of rep range. Having logged on and off over the past few years, I haven't found any specific benefit from writing stuff down at this point. I will periodically get on here and provide an update or maybe post a video, but from this point forward, I will not log my workouts. I appreciate the support of those who have followed my journal.

[Quelly]

well to be perfectly honest with you Kurt, most people don't want to get on here and read a spreadsheet anyways. What we are interested in are things like how training has been lately, do you feel like you are making progress? Where and how? What things are you trying lately, what has been useful, what have you gone back to from your training past? What are you trying to bring up, what is your mindset and goals concerning your next show?

I know you're a good writer and a smart guy, in fact I just read your article "shock therapy" in NB&F this month, its great stuff. I also love the hardcore piecs on your website. People want to get the "animal" perspective when they read your log. That is the kind of stuff that I personally get a benefit from logging. When I record my bodybuilding experience, my trials, tribulations, triumphs and obstacles, it helps me look at it objectively, stay motivated, and it encourages others to chime in with motivation, advice, suggestions, and also provides information to up and comers.

Just a thought dude.

[Animal76]

Thanks Eric, I appreciate the feedback. I prefer to provide that kind of info anyway, because I find it would be more useful. I will do my best to keep this updated. Vaughan and i are currently working on coming up with a more systematic approach to our training split. By that I mean having different styles of workouts for each set workout in the split each week. We would continue with the same split we're currently using

Monday: Lower Back, Hams, Glutes, Calves
Tuesday: Chest & triceps
Wednesday: Back & Calves
Thursday: Quads & Hamstrings
Friday: Shoulders & Biceps

but the approach to each workout each week would be different and there might be as many as 3-4 different aproaches (power training, strength progression, exhaustion training with giant sets and drop sets, high reps, etc)

We have traditionally incorporated a mix of training methods, but have done so more instinctively. This way we would have a system that prioritizes a set approach to a given workout, which would change each week. Furthermore, the focus of one workout would be different than that of another within the same week. For instance, if the monday workout was focused on power one week, then the thursday workout would likely be exhaustion training or high reps.

I'll provide more detail as we establish what we want to do.

well to be perfectly honest with you Kurt, most people don't want to get on here and read a spreadsheet anyways. What we are interested in are things like how training has been lately, do you feel like you are making progress? Where and how? What things are you trying lately, what has been useful, what have you gone back to from your training past? What are you trying to bring up, what is your mindset and goals concerning your next show?

I know you're a good writer and a smart guy, in fact I just read your article "shock therapy" in NB&F this month, its great stuff. I also love the hardcore piecs on your website. People want to get the "animal" perspective when they read your log. That is the kind of stuff that I personally get a benefit from logging. When I record my bodybuilding experience, my trials, tribulations, triumphs and obstacles, it helps me look at it objectively, stay motivated, and it encourages others to chime in with motivation, advice, suggestions, and also provides information to up and comers.

Just a thought dude.

[Quelly]

awesome Kurt, I'm looking forward to seeing how you periodize your split

[muscleandgains]

Kurt

I noticed for chest you don't use bbells why is that? I amn looking to improve the thickness of my ches especially upper. Is there any recomendations you can share or things that work for you?

[Animal76]

I rarely use barbells for chest and when I do I only do incline barbell press...I never do flat bench! I don't find barbell presses very effective for developing the chest. It puts a lot of stress on the shoulders and also emphasizes the triceps. Part of this is because having your hands in a fixed position on a bar does not allow for adduction, so you're not really fully contracting the pectorals throughout the entire range of motion (especially if your grip is wide). This is something that can be achieved with d-bells, hammer strength and cables.
For overall development, I think d-bell flys are the most effective exercise for chest (at least for me)

.
Kurt

I noticed for chest you don't use bbells why is that? I amn looking to improve the thickness of my ches especially upper. Is there any recomendations you can share or things that work for you?

[The Solution]

Great article with Brian in Natural Bodybuilding Magazine:
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/LayzieBone085/kurtt.jpg

Keep up the hard work as always Kurt.

[Animal76]

this was my 4th working set of Trap Bar Deadlifts today (I did 5 warm-up sets prior to that)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQYVdT7XZ3c

my goal is to get 30 reps at this weight

[Quelly]

this was my 4th working set of Trap Bar Deadlifts today (I did 5 warm-up sets prior to that)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQYVdT7XZ3c

my goal is to get 30 reps at this weight

holy hell kurt, this and that deadlift vid from doug miller are just insane!

[Animal76]

Bench Dips: drop set starting with 300 lbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7XFI5zWV34

I definitely could have done a better job with the form

[Quelly]

Bench Dips: drop set starting with 300 lbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7XFI5zWV34

I definitely could have done a better job with the form

good lord....that's strong... impressive kurt.

btw....after seeing 300lbs in your lap, I'm very tempted to make a sexual joke involving a fat chick....but I won't.

[dj_eu]

Bench Dips: drop set starting with 300 lbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7XFI5zWV34

I definitely could have done a better job with the form

That's an Animal right there! Vaughn is looking beastly too, looks like the only way to keep up with you guys is to move to Blacksburg.

What's your supplementation strategy look like these days?

[fltallpaul]

Thanks for the videos Kurt, keep em coming. This is the kind of stuff that keeps me motivated in the gym.

[Animal76]

Vaughan is making some serious progress. Yesterday he got 125's for 7 reps on D-bell press...I can remember when his chest was a weak point (not anymore!) He keeps f***ing growing like it's his job! I think he's a little over 200 lbs now and I doubt he's more than 5% bodyfat.

Current Supps:
Primaforce AAKG
Primaforce Creaform
Primaforce Beta Alanine
Primaforce Alcalean
Primaforce Lean Green
Primaforce Pro liver
Primaforce Elastamine
Primaforce Cissus
Primaforce Insopro R
Primaforce Idebenone
Scivation Xtend
Scivation Whey
Scivation Solution 5
Scivation EFA
Scivation Knockout
Dymatize GABA
Dymatize Casein
GAT Jet Fuel



That's an Animal right there! Vaughn is looking beastly too, looks like the only way to keep up with you guys is to move to Blacksburg.

What's your supplementation strategy look like these days?

[Animal76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqmZE2Wi2wg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtFfczmRNts

[serratus]

Kurt, looking strong and huge. Nice work on those lifts.

When are you getting back on stage?

[Animal76]

I will be back onstage fall of 2011


Kurt, looking strong and huge. Nice work on those lifts.

When are you getting back on stage?

[Animal76]

hit a new PR on Trap bar Deadlifts today: 405 lbs x 27 reps after 3 working sets in the mid 500's. slow, steady progress

not much else to report, training is going well

[dj_eu]

Kurt,

Awesome work on those deads!

When you go for PRs, do you adjust the volume of your workouts? I know your volume is usually crazy high, but do you go low-to-moderate volume when trying to hit PRs?

[Animal76]

Eugene, since PRs aren't necessarily planned, I do not adjust the volume for the workout. I train instinctively and don't always know when i'm going to hit a PR. Regardless, it just gets treated as another set.


Kurt,

Awesome work on those deads!

When you go for PRs, do you adjust the volume of your workouts? I know your volume is usually crazy high, but do you go low-to-moderate volume when trying to hit PRs?

[Animal76]

Great Leg Workout today!

Leg Press
2plates x 10 reps
4 plates x 20 reps
6 plates x 30 reps
8 plates x 40 reps
10 plates x 50 reps
12 plates x 35 reps
6 plates x 75 reps

Standing Calf Raises: 6 sets

Front Squats on York Squat Machine: 5 sets

Leg Extension: 4 sets

Lying Leg Curls: 4 sets

Seated Calf Raises: 4 sets

Barbell Squats: 3 sets

Hyperextension: 4 sets

Stair Sprints w/ 90 lb vest

[Animal76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gnw_4E9Ark

[nickdavid]

Subbed.

I just posted one of your vids to my journal, Kurt. Then I thought to myself, i wonder if you have a bodyspace - then I find your journal - This will make for some great reading I'm sure - thanks for logging here, mate!

[Animal76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H-R0XwZ8x4

[Quelly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H-R0XwZ8x4

that's sick kurt....in an awesome way, seems a lot safer to do high rep deads with a trap bar, 30 reps with 405 and no back rounding, that's awesome man

[nickdavid]

that's sick kurt....in an awesome way, seems a lot safer to do high rep deads with a trap bar, 30 reps with 405 and no back rounding, that's awesome man

Agreed - Strong!

[jpfaherty]

Great Leg Workout today!

Leg Press
2plates x 10 reps
4 plates x 20 reps
6 plates x 30 reps
8 plates x 40 reps
10 plates x 50 reps
12 plates x 35 reps
6 plates x 75 reps



:eek:

[AustrianOakJr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H-R0XwZ8x4

I like your shirt.



......and your deadlifts. :eek:

[Animal76]

12 plates x 50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m4t0ngVpbs

[Quelly]

damn, putting in reps lately!

[Animal76]

a couple videos from tuesday's shoulders & back workout (nothing too impressive)

smith machine military press
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahw-tRU5p-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRbLPZM5_I

(after seeing Doug Miller rep 405, i realize my barbell rows are a joke, but i've never been very strong on this exercise)

[muscleandgains]

are you doing super high reps as of late Kurt? whats ypur split like at the moment? grea videos.




a couple videos from tuesday's shoulders & back workout (nothing too impressive)

smith machine military press
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahw-tRU5p-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhRbLPZM5_I

(after seeing Doug Miller rep 405, i realize my barbell rows are a joke, but i've never been very strong on this exercise)

[Frankdaddy]

Impressive to me, mentality always looks deadly in your videos.

Do you periodize your training or go by instinctive all out approach. Just interested if you do crazy high reps frequent and giant sets or a shocker on some weeks.

[Animal76]

Split Squats on Smith Machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRDFt-cdue0

[Animal76]

Thanks. I train pretty instinctively, but include a lot of high rep stuff and giant sets, because I feel I respond well to it. My joints also don't handle the heavier weight as well on certain things, so I challenge myself by doing tons of reps. As far as the deadlifts, I am promoting an event next weekend in my gym to raise money for the humane society. It's basically a liftathon, where you choose an event (or two) and a weight and then you get people to pledge an amount per rep. I chose 405 lbs as my deadlift weight, so I've been working towards getting as many as I can. I have over $35 per rep pledged. I'm also going to do an 850 lb tire flip for reps.


Impressive to me, mentality always looks deadly in your videos.

Do you periodize your training or go by instinctive all out approach. Just interested if you do crazy high reps frequent and giant sets or a shocker on some weeks.

[Animal76]

my current split:

Monday: Quads, Hams, Calves
Tuesday: Shoulders & Back
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Lower Back, Hams, Glutes, Calves
Friday: Chest &Triceps


biceps get throw in wherever...sometimes both tuesday and friday, but could be save for Saturday. I've been only training 4 days a week the last few weeks and that's been working for me.


are you doing super high reps as of late Kurt? whats ypur split like at the moment? grea videos.

[Animal76]

Today was the Fall Fitness Challenge that I promoted at our gym. We had 11 participants taking part in various events of their choice and we were able to raise around $4500 for the Humane Society of Montgomery County.

Here is my deadlift video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hafd5IPs1xk

and here is the infamous footage of me hurting myself...watch the failed attempt on the 15th flip...tire landed on my ankle...at least I can say I went to failure!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJhdl33perA

[nickdavid]

Today was the Fall Fitness Challenge that I promoted at our gym. We had 11 participants taking part in various events of their choice and we were able to raise around $4500 for the Humane Society of Montgomery County.

Here is my deadlift video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hafd5IPs1xk

and here is the infamous footage of me hurting myself...watch the failed attempt on the 15th flip...tire landed on my ankle...at least I can say I went to failure!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJhdl33perA

Dude, sick DEADLIFTS! - Nice work!

What happened to your ankle in the end after that tyre landed on it?

[Animal76]

the ankle is in pretty rough shape...hoping it's only sprained


Dude, sick DEADLIFTS! - Nice work!

What happened to your ankle in the end after that tyre landed on it?

[Animal76]

Congrats to my good friend Brian Whitacre for winning the lightweight class at WNBF Worlds for the 3rd time! Sweet redemption!

[BaFtub]

So happy Brian redeemed himself! Some day I'll grow some balls and approach you LOL. Too intimidating haha.

[Quelly]

So happy Brian redeemed himself! Some day I'll grow some balls and approach you LOL. Too intimidating haha.

Brett you're such a nancy pants, from my impression of meeting Kurt, yeah he's intense when it comes to mental focus and training and bodybuilding philosophy, but he's a really cool dude in person.

BTW congrats to Brian Whitacre, beating Clarida and Cordova is an AWESOME feat.

[Animal76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPMW_k9SD0c

[tsajdak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPMW_k9SD0c

I love/hate doing manual resistance negatives on leg extensions. Always have to be careful getting off the machine so I don't fall down. ha

[Animal76]

just want to thank Mike and John for the opportunity to be on Natural Bodybuilding Radio.
http://naturalbodybuildingradio.com/spotlight-on-champions/wnbf-pro-kurt-the-animal-weidner

[Animal76]

since I haven't been on here in awhile, I figured i'd throw some recent videos on

this first one is of me hurting myself once again, while doing split squats. Fortunately my shoulder seems to be ok (for the most part) and hasn't interfered with my training:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIjkYOI67Ls

that set was towards the end of the workout...here are vids from earlier in the same workout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyA7xkRZw6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnGYLOEXZkM

this video was from last week of me deadlifting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VEkHqlS2dI


2 weeks ago I went on something called a vacation (new concept) in CO. Here's a video of me skiing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VksW8cjPEA

[dj_eu]

Awesome interview, Kurt! I really liked how you broke down the benefiits of supplementing with BCAAs so that an average gym goer like myself can understand.

See you at the Arnold in 5 days!

[Animal76]

I'm looking forward to it!


Awesome interview, Kurt! I really liked how you broke down the benefiits of supplementing with BCAAs so that an average gym goer like myself can understand.

See you at the Arnold in 5 days!

[Animal76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nThG8mL9sE

[Frankdaddy]

Awesome videos! Crazy pushing the limits, unfortunelty having the mishap of falling on this split squats im sure did not feel good losing the bar like that. Hopefully you recover well with that.

The blueberry muffin idea seems great, I cannot wait to give it a try because it seems like a good way to get some oatmeal in without eating it plain, thanks for that time making the video.

[tonsti]

Im all over those muffins Kurt.Thank you for your time and effort making the vid :)

[Sporto1633]

My favorite of all the videos by far is the deadlifting video for the simple fact that there are VERY few people on this planet who can do a set of 12 like that, be completely fatigued and exhausted, and then somehow dig extremely deep into reserves you never knew you had and WILL up one last rep.

Kudos!

Sporto

[Animal76]

Thanks Tommy! My motivation to get one more rep is knowing there are guys like yourself out there who keep raising the bar! I know I must progress in order to keep up! Hope all is well with you! Looking forward to meeting you at the Arnold.


My favorite of all the videos by far is the deadlifting video for the simple fact that there are VERY few people on this planet who can do a set of 12 like that, be completely fatigued and exhausted, and then somehow dig extremely deep into reserves you never knew you had and WILL up one last rep.

Kudos!

Sporto

[chuckles_345]

Your training vids are awesome! I often use them for motivation before hitting the gym. Also, great interview on natural bb radio last week. Hope to see some more crazy training vids in the future.

[dj_eu]

Hey Kurt,

Giving those muffins a try tomorrow, thanks for posting the recipe. I remember you said you also make your own frittatas--can you share a recipe for those as well? Are they contest prep-friendly?

[Animal76]

Eugene, I'll have to go back and find the recipe for the frittatas. I think I used eggwhites, oats, 96% lean ground beef (or venison), guacamole and seasonings (red hot + mrs. dash southwest chipotle). i used the bigger containers shown in the video.

Those can definitely be contest prep friendly. I have also blended those same ingredients, then poured them in the tins and baked them to make a meatloaf.

If you look back far enough in my journal, i'm sure I mentioned them


Hey Kurt,

Giving those muffins a try tomorrow, thanks for posting the recipe. I remember you said you also make your own frittatas--can you share a recipe for those as well? Are they contest prep-friendly?

[Animal76]

This is my new website/blog that enables me to update regularly and add various content
http://teamanimal.net/

I am working towards getting my clients on here as well

[Animal76]

video from tuesday (PR on H-Squat)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMLlfJBoDSU

training videos from today's workout
leg press (one leg)
working set #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iey4IuXxMtQ
working set #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwzFqBDg7o8
working set #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOl3O4CZq4

Giant set w/ 140 lb weighted vest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BngEs3N_qH0

farmer's walk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T554OvMqXp0

[AustrianOakJr]

Kurt, my wife made up the muffins according to your recipe. Good stuff. We tried it with pumpkin also......even BETTER. Give it a whirl.

[Animal76]

Glad you liked them! I'll have another recipe up online this weekend!


Kurt, my wife made up the muffins according to your recipe. Good stuff. We tried it with pumpkin also......even BETTER. Give it a whirl.

[Animal76]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/14/mondays-workout-videos-314/

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/13/kurts-eggwhiteoatmealsweet-potato-waffle-recipe/

[Animal76]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/22/tuesday-leg-workout/

[FATHER FLEX]

When I first saw that H-squat my first reaction was WTF? After you take a moment to look at it though it reminds me so much of the Cybex Leg Press, which I love. These type of machines almost feel like free weights.

[fltallpaul]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/22/tuesday-leg-workout/


When I first saw that H-squat my first reaction was WTF? After you take a moment to look at it though it reminds me so much of the Cybex Leg Press, which I love. These type of machines almost feel like free weights.

First I really like the website, nice work.

Second I have used that Squat Machine in my gym. It's called the V squat I think. I put my back against the pad though. I will try it your way next time I need a break from hacks or squats.

[Animal76]

First I really like the website, nice work.

Second I have used that Squat Machine in my gym. It's called the V squat I think. I put my back against the pad though. I will try it your way next time I need a break from hacks or squats.

This Squat machine is different from the V-Squat. I've used the v-squat made by hammer Strength (nice machine). There are different ways to use this one (back against the pad, facing in, or standing towards the front with out back support). It's almost like a variation of a front squat the way i'm using it

[Animal76]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/25/friday-325-pr-on-deadlifts/

[Sporto1633]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/25/friday-325-pr-on-deadlifts/

*shakes head*

That is just downright silly...I think my IT bands flared up just watching that lol

Sporto

[Animal76]

I was happy to be able to maintain form and keep my back straight through the whole set. That's my goal as I work to progress up in weight. These felt really good.


*shakes head*

That is just downright silly...I think my IT bands flared up just watching that lol

Sporto

[Animal76]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/29/optimization/

[devinh]

I used to love that York squat machine, had one at my old gym. Another way we used to use it was facing the pad straddling the platform (feet on the floor). Basically sumo style, worked great for glutes and hames. Keep those videos coming, we enjoy them.

[Beast]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/25/friday-325-pr-on-deadlifts/

Trap Bar Deadlifts 535 lbs x 14 reps :eek:

Love the intensity on that set!

[dam225]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/29/optimization/

Great freakin' post...couldn't have said it better!

[AustrianOakJr]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/25/friday-325-pr-on-deadlifts/

Dude, you totally set the lunk alarm off at Planet fitness. HA HA! :D. Good to see that kind of intensity in the gym. Freaking insane deadlifts.

[FATHER FLEX]

I think the most amazing part(aside from the weight and reps) is how the last rep looked like the first.

[AustrianOakJr]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/29/optimization/


Great freakin' post...couldn't have said it better!

What is your guy's take on the psychological aspect of eating "dirty" foods? IMOP, branching out beyond a typical bodybuilder meal of chicken and sweet potato provides a certain amount of psychological break which is often understimated in contest prep. For instance, my vice is frozen yogurt (or ice cream in the off season). I will often get 60g of carbs from frozen yogurt on a refeed day. I find the psychological break I get from "eating clean" is worth it. Now, as I progress in prep, I find my body craving quality calories and this practice gets shelved in the last 6-8 weeks of prep. But, the body breaks down the ice cream or frozen yogurt and it ends up as glucose. And although the processing might be different (insulin levels, etc) for say....a sweet potato....the end product is the same. Realize I am not making the arguement from an extremist point of view (ie. you can eat nothing but potato chips and beer and still get contest ready). IMOP, moderation is key.....and "unclean" foods can provide a psychological benefit at very little-no cost to the overall finished product. However, i am obviously not at that Doug Miller/Kurt Weidner level so I would be interested in your take on that.....

[Sporto1633]

I was happy to be able to maintain form and keep my back straight through the whole set. That's my goal as I work to progress up in weight. These felt really good.

You certainly did that! I think that is something that we have in common - when both of us lift the heavier weight, we make it look way easier than what it really is. I get comments all the time when I do any leg movement that I make it look easy, when in all reality, even though I may not always show it in my face, I'm struggling my *ss off lol

But yes, great form all the way through! I've learned that when doing higher rep sets like this with heavy weight that I will stop a little short if I feel like my form will suffer on the last rep.


http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/29/optimization/

I am going to spam this everywhere - this is EXACTLY how I feel about nutrition! We had some discussions about this very thing, and since I have been on BOTH sides of the fence and not only seen, but also FELT the difference, I can honestly say that this is the way to go - but ONLY if you are serious about your bodybuilding/training/health endeavors.


Trap Bar Deadlifts 535 lbs x 14 reps :eek:

Love the intensity on that set!

Kurt? Intense? No way! ;)


Great freakin' post...couldn't have said it better!

I think I'm going to link this in my sig line from now on!


Dude, you totally set the lunk alarm off at Planet fitness. HA HA! :D. Good to see that kind of intensity in the gym. Freaking insane deadlifts.

You know, I never jreally knew what you guys meant mean referring to Planet Fitness, that is, until I lifted there not too long ago with a buddy of mine. I knew something was wrong when I walked in with a tank top and got looks/attitude from about everyone in there, like I was some sort of freak alien. Hell, I was only bench pressing and racked the weights too loud before I was told to either keep it down or leave.

So, I went to the bathroom, took a HUGE broccoli dump without flushing, then went to another gym to finish my workout.

So long Planet Fitness! And thank you for the PhD in stupidity!


I think the most amazing part(aside from the weight and reps) is how the last rep looked like the first.

No kidding!


What is your guy's take on the psychological aspect of eating "dirty" foods? IMOP, branching out beyond a typical bodybuilder meal of chicken and sweet potato provides a certain amount of psychological break which is often understimated in contest prep. For instance, my vice is frozen yogurt (or ice cream in the off season). I will often get 60g of carbs from frozen yogurt on a refeed day. I find the psychological break I get from "eating clean" is worth it. Now, as I progress in prep, I find my body craving quality calories and this practice gets shelved in the last 6-8 weeks of prep. But, the body breaks down the ice cream or frozen yogurt and it ends up as glucose. And although the processing might be different (insulin levels, etc) for say....a sweet potato....the end product is the same. Realize I am not making the arguement from an extremist point of view (ie. you can eat nothing but potato chips and beer and still get contest ready). IMOP, moderation is key.....and "unclean" foods can provide a psychological benefit at very little-no cost to the overall finished product. However, i am obviously not at that Doug Miller/Kurt Weidner level so I would be interested in your take on that.....

I know you are directing this towards Kurt/Doug, but I will chime in as I beleive we probably hold very similar views on this:

During prep - it's not about psychologically "feeling good" or "needing a break" from anything. During a contest prep, when trying to bring the ultimate package to the stage, it becomes more about just fueling and feeding the body with precisely what it needs to maximize everything you can. Period. Doug can vouch for how many times I pissed and moaned about the amount of broccoli I was eating because no one on this planet HATES broccoli as much as I do. But, that was his response - suck it up, you are just fueling the machine right now and it will be worth it. And after 2 overall wins, I can honestly say that it was :)

The reason this is crucial during prep is because you are on restricted calories, for an extended period of time while your activity level goes WAY up. Everything needs to be maximized and have a purpose if you are going to bring the best you can. Every food source has a specific purpose as to why we use it.

I know you don't agree with us on the extreme level of food source, but at least that is some insight as to why we believe the way we do.

Sporto

[AustrianOakJr]

You know, I never jreally knew what you guys meant mean referring to Planet Fitness, that is, until I lifted there not too long ago with a buddy of mine. I knew something was wrong when I walked in with a tank top and got looks/attitude from about everyone in there, like I was some sort of freak alien. Hell, I was only bench pressing and racked the weights too loud before I was told to either keep it down or leave.

So, I went to the bathroom, took a HUGE broccoli dump without flushing, then went to another gym to finish my workout.

So long Planet Fitness! And thank you for the PhD in stupidity!



Planet fitness is a breeding ground for mediocrity. Its ridiculous. They are "non-judgmental" towards everyone except those who pour some effort into their training. However, if you eat donuts on the treadmill while watching Oprah.....you fit right in.



I know you are directing this towards Kurt/Doug, but I will chime in as I beleive we probably hold very similar views on this:

During prep - it's not about psychologically "feeling good" or "needing a break" from anything. During a contest prep, when trying to bring the ultimate package to the stage, it becomes more about just fueling and feeding the body with precisely what it needs to maximize everything you can. Period. Doug can vouch for how many times I pissed and moaned about the amount of broccoli I was eating because no one on this planet HATES broccoli as much as I do. But, that was his response - suck it up, you are just fueling the machine right now and it will be worth it. And after 2 overall wins, I can honestly say that it was :)

The reason this is crucial during prep is because you are on restricted calories, for an extended period of time while your activity level goes WAY up. Everything needs to be maximized and have a purpose if you are going to bring the best you can. Every food source has a specific purpose as to why we use it.

I know you don't agree with us on the extreme level of food source, but at least that is some insight as to why we believe the way we do.

Sporto

I kind of figured this is how you (or they) would answer. You gotta do what you gotta do in order to be the best. If that means you suffer.....then so be it. And I completely agree.....prep isnt about feeling good. If it was, no one would step on stage at 4% BF. Because that just feels miserable. My only question is whether food choice "suffering" is needed. Will that bowl of frozen yogurt or that pop tart on occasion make ANY difference in your overall prep? And, Tommy.....dont get me wrong......I am not disagreeing with you. Im learning. And if eating a crap ton of brocolli in place of whatever other carb source would make a difference then I would be willing to do it. At this stage of my game, I am not sure it would.....perhaps at Doug or Kurt's level it would. I find that each time I do this (prep) I learn more and more. Perhaps at another level I will find myself learning the lessons on food choice?

[Flynn]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/22/tuesday-leg-workout/

Digging deep and very intense. Those knee sleeves are a life saver for these ole knees. I have the same ones.

[Sporto1633]

I kind of figured this is how you (or they) would answer. You gotta do what you gotta do in order to be the best. If that means you suffer.....then so be it. And I completely agree.....prep isnt about feeling good. If it was, no one would step on stage at 4% BF. Because that just feels miserable. My only question is whether food choice "suffering" is needed. Will that bowl of frozen yogurt or that pop tart on occasion make ANY difference in your overall prep? And, Tommy.....dont get me wrong......I am not disagreeing with you. Im learning. And if eating a crap ton of brocolli in place of whatever other carb source would make a difference then I would be willing to do it. At this stage of my game, I am not sure it would.....perhaps at Doug or Kurt's level it would. I find that each time I do this (prep) I learn more and more. Perhaps at another level I will find myself learning the lessons on food choice?

I want to reiterate something here that I did in my journal with respect to this. Honestly, there really isn't any more "suffering" that goes on with, say, the way we prep and the way anyone else does. At least, I didn't notice it this last time. Even when I was eating kind of whatever to hit numbers back in 2007, I was still somewhat miserable simply because of the amount of food I was only allowed to eat, not because of the taste of the foods themselves. So I think that kind of applies here. I got cranky around the same leanness as I did when I was using whatever, and it really wasn't because of a lack of variety, it was a lack of volume.

Does that make sense? So it's really no more different on most fronts from the other approaches, at least from the "suffering" aspect anyway.

Sporto

[Animal76]

At one point years ago, I may have considered the need for a psychological break, but honestly at this stage it's not an issue for me. Even in the off-season, psychologically It would bother me to eat something that isn't optimal. Over quite a number of years I have gotten to the point where I appreciate how good I feel from eating the right things, that I actually don't want to eat some of the things I used to allow periodically. I know how sh*tty i'll feel both mentally and physically as a result...to me it's not worth it. I also don't like thinking that i'm sacrificing an opportunity to grow by choosing low quality foods over high quality foods or allowing a competitor to be more committed than I am. You can't just look at the end result (glucose in the bloodstream for instance). There are immeasurable results from eating clean vs eating crap. Even though Sat & Sun are non-training days for me, what I eat over the weekend carries over to how I feel in my workouts at the beginning of the week...how my joints feel, how well I breath, etc. It also affects how well I recover from the previous week's workouts. This is why I don't like cheat meals even in the off-season. I'm not going to sacrifice an optimal workout just so I can eat something different. Frankly, I don't consider it suffering off-season or contest prep. I enjoy what I eat. I actually like eating broccoli multiple times a day...partly, because I can appreciate how good I feel as a result of consuming healthy choices. I am very in tune with my body. I don't feel normal if I don't get at least 2 servings of broccoli in per day.

If you read my most recent article in NB&F (current issue) entitled "Passion" you realize that for me this is a lifestyle and for me it goes beyond just competing. As a personal trainer and nutritional consultant, my job revolves around health & fitness. When I was in my 20's things may have been different. I was more concerned with just progress as a bber. At 35 yrs old I concern myself not only with being the best natty bber i'm capable of being, but also setting the best example for clients and aspiring competitors. It is my job to embody a healthy lifestyle.

Having competed for 14 yrs (29 shows), much of my ability to help aspiring competitors stems from knowledge earned by costly mistakes. I've probably made every mistake possible. I had little guidance early on and had to learn by trial and error. To be honest, I don't really consider anything I did prior to 2006 actual bodybuilding. It was just a series of f***-ups that enabled me to reach the level i'm currently at.

I don't think that excluding foods needs to mean you're suffering. I have learned to appreciate healthy foods that I actually enjoy eating. To me, what I eat tastes good and I'm not interested in eating processed crap. I prefer to stay home on a Saturday night in the off-season and make my own food rather than go to a restaurant and feel like I ate f***ing glue! I want to wake up Sunday morning every week of the year with the same energy and vigor I would have 2 weeks out from a show. I don't want to roll over and feel like I have a food hangover.




What is your guy's take on the psychological aspect of eating "dirty" foods? IMOP, branching out beyond a typical bodybuilder meal of chicken and sweet potato provides a certain amount of psychological break which is often understimated in contest prep. For instance, my vice is frozen yogurt (or ice cream in the off season). I will often get 60g of carbs from frozen yogurt on a refeed day. I find the psychological break I get from "eating clean" is worth it. Now, as I progress in prep, I find my body craving quality calories and this practice gets shelved in the last 6-8 weeks of prep. But, the body breaks down the ice cream or frozen yogurt and it ends up as glucose. And although the processing might be different (insulin levels, etc) for say....a sweet potato....the end product is the same. Realize I am not making the arguement from an extremist point of view (ie. you can eat nothing but potato chips and beer and still get contest ready). IMOP, moderation is key.....and "unclean" foods can provide a psychological benefit at very little-no cost to the overall finished product. However, i am obviously not at that Doug Miller/Kurt Weidner level so I would be interested in your take on that.....

[Quelly]

Kurt, I made the assumption that the recent article might have been inspired by the picture Alberto put up on facebook of his food that you commented on...if I am wrong in this assumption...well that serves me right for assuming doesn't it?
However if I am right, I'd really appreciate it if you took a look at this post I just made looking at Tommy's views, your views and Berto's views (btw all of which have merit).

I intend it to be respectful (as I do have incredible respect for you), but I also hope to maybe give some insight into other perspectives and maybe help you to get a more accurate view of Alberto.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=653910633&postcount=394

I would have posted in here originally but I first saw your article in Tommy's thread, hope that doesn't come off as passive aggressive.

[Animal76]

Berto's posts with junk food was one of the motivating forces behind my rant, but it was not the only one. I've seen other examples in recent times that I take issue with...mainly because I think it sets poor example of how to approach nutrition and bodybuilding. First off, I have nothing personal against Berto. I like him. My issue is with his methodology...and it's not just him.

I will look at your post, I just got home from work.


Kurt, I made the assumption that the recent article might have been inspired by the picture Alberto put up on facebook of his food that you commented on...if I am wrong in this assumption...well that serves me right for assuming doesn't it?
However if I am right, I'd really appreciate it if you took a look at this post I just made looking at Tommy's views, your views and Berto's views (btw all of which have merit).

I intend it to be respectful (as I do have incredible respect for you), but I also hope to maybe give some insight into other perspectives and maybe help you to get a more accurate view of Alberto.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=653910633&postcount=394

I would have posted in here originally but I first saw your article in Tommy's thread, hope that doesn't come off as passive aggressive.

[AustrianOakJr]

I don't think that excluding foods needs to mean you're suffering. I have learned to appreciate healthy foods that I actually enjoy eating. To me, what I eat tastes good and I'm not interested in eating processed crap. I prefer to stay home on a Saturday night in the off-season and make my own food rather than go to a restaurant and feel like I ate f***ing glue! I want to wake up Sunday morning every week of the year with the same energy and vigor I would have 2 weeks out from a show. I don't want to roll over and feel like I have a food hangover.

This must be a part of maturing as you age......Personally, I like to wake up feeling like I ate glue on occasion. :D Nah....in all seriousness, I totally get what you are saying. I guess for me, personally, I do not feel a difference between a day where I eat nothing but 100% whole foods and a day where I eat a bowl of frozen yogurt, a skinny cow, or a bag of popcorn. If I eat a Big Mac.....well, thats a different story......I feel like crap (but it tastes soooo good when it hits your lips :D). I guess we all have to figure out what "good" eating is for each of us individually. Heck, when I was 18, I could survive on whoppers and not even miss a beat......grow like a freakshow on cycle. As I age, I cant eat that crap anymore without the "food hangover". Perhaps its a matter of time before my ice cream catches up with me?? Say it ain't so!!!! :)

[Quelly]

Berto's posts with junk food was one of the motivating forces behind my rant, but it was not the only one. I've seen other examples in recent times that I take issue with...mainly because I think it sets poor example of how to approach nutrition and bodybuilding. First off, I have nothing personal against Berto. I like him. My issue is with his methodology...and it's not just him.

I will look at your post, I just got home from work.

Thanks for taking the time to read it. And my apology for thinking it was the primary driver for the rant. Glad to hear you don't have an issue him personally.

I'd say you have a very impressive level of discipline Kurt, and it's to be commended.

[SupaaJ]

Kurt, your training is intense to say the least! Real cool website and enjoyed the videos.

Made those Trap Bar Deads look easy!

What is your current training split looking like?

[Animal76]

Thanks, regarding my current training split, here's a recent link I posted about it

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/26/current-workout-split/


Kurt, your training is intense to say the least! Real cool website and enjoyed the videos.

Made those Trap Bar Deads look easy!

What is your current training split looking like?

[Animal76]

Eric,
First off, like I said, i'm not attacking Berto...his methods are just an example of things I don't agree with and you should realize that i'm criticizing myself for stupid things I used to do just as much. Let me reiterate what I said prior in that I do not consider anything I did prior to 2006 actual bodybuilding. It was a series of f*ck-ups that enabled me to eventually evolve into a bodybuilder. Despite always having a strong work ethic and being very dedicated, I implemented plenty of stupid methods that I tried to justify at the time...this is probably why I looked like a pile of wet dogsh*t the first 22 times I stepped onstage. When I finally figured it all out by 2006 when I stepped onstage in the US Cup I my physique actually resembled that of a bodybuilder.

In response to AustrianOak, regarding age and maturation, I think over time I recognize a combination of two variables: i'm likely more sensitive to eating certain foods than I used to be and thus can't get away with eating sh*t I ate in my 20's...i'm also more in tune with my body and have more recognition of the negative effects of doing such.

Eric, Part of your argument for Berto's methods have to do with his caloric needs. I should point out that I have an extremely fast metabolism and I am very active, combining to cause a need for high calories. Looking back at the last few seasons, during the early phases at 3500-3800 calories I have trouble not losing weight too quickly (this is even with refeed days of up to 4000 calories a day. In the off-season it's not un-normal for me to consume well over 4000 calories without being able to gain a lb. In the last couple years i've stayed below 6% bodyfat (based on calipers) in the off-season even when consuming very high calories. Based on your argument, I could get away with allowing a percentage of my caloric intake to come from garbage, because my nutrient requirement are already being met. There is a difference between what you can get away with and what is optimal or healthy.

You made the strawman argument that Berto at one point was consuming a large amount of calories from healthy food and was fat...excessive calories will cause fat storage...consuming 6000+ calories (unless you're an olympic swimmer) will cause you to gain fat no matter where they come from. Allocation and balance throughout the day as well as total number of macros all matter...but you need to look at more than just the numbers.
I remember seeing somewhere (and I could be mistaken) that Berto only eats a few times a day...is that correct? If you require lots of calories wouldn't it make more sense to eat more frequently rather than trying to meet your nutritional needs in 3-4 meals and then allow consumption of sugar laden, fat filled meals?

You misinterpreted my comment about people who are freaks...it was not specific to Berto. My point was that there may be people who can eat sh*t and not have the same visible effects on their physique...but this doesn't justify it, because they could be implementing a more optimal method.

You also misinterpreted what I was saying in regards to insulin. My comment about the baked lays had nothing to do with insulin. My opposition to foods such as baked lay is that they are processed garbage...poor food choice...doesn't matter what the GI rating is! Glycemic index is somewhat irrelevant because bbers tend to eat balanced meals combining proteins and fats with carbs. I was referring to the insulin surge that results from eating a large meal or dessert filled with sugar and or saturated fat. Are you going to argue that's not going to cause fat storage? Insulin response is also related to meal size. You can elicit a strong insulin response from eating a large meal comprised of healthy foods and vice versa...insulin is only part of the picture, though. When identifying optimal carbohydrate source for someone, you need to consider how his/her body responds to different foods. This is something that has to be done on an individual basis and you will not find studies to confirm it.

In your post you identified what I wrote as an article. It really was more of a simple commentary. You may think that I am a simple-minded meathead, but I constantly analyze what i'm putting in my body and I have reasons (much like Tommy) for the choices I make in my consumption. While science plays an important role in providing useful information about the effects/benefits of various foods, ingredients, etc. it cannot tell us everything. You could never conduct enough studies on enough different types of groups to distinguish how each individual might respond to different variables. This is where personal experience and learning your body become absolutely essential.

Furthermore, I think you are missing a big part of my argument. It's not just about getting adequate micro & macronutrients, antioxidants, etc. It's also about avoiding consumption of foods that are unhealthy. Are you denying that there are negative effects from consuming sh*tty foods? do I really needs to cite studies to make this point..

I'm sure that I get more than enough of certain things in my diet, but this is not an excuse to me to eat crap. I prefer to get extra calories from good sources that are not going to be detrimental to my health.

Lastly, everyone has the right to do whatever they want...if you want to eat processed garbage, I don't care. It's not my body! But please do not tell me that it's optimal. The article of my commentary was OPTIMIZATION>


Kurt, I made the assumption that the recent article might have been inspired by the picture Alberto put up on facebook of his food that you commented on...if I am wrong in this assumption...well that serves me right for assuming doesn't it?
However if I am right, I'd really appreciate it if you took a look at this post I just made looking at Tommy's views, your views and Berto's views (btw all of which have merit).

I intend it to be respectful (as I do have incredible respect for you), but I also hope to maybe give some insight into other perspectives and maybe help you to get a more accurate view of Alberto.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=653910633&postcount=394

I would have posted in here originally but I first saw your article in Tommy's thread, hope that doesn't come off as passive aggressive.

[JohnBrowne]

Furthermore, I think you are missing a big part of my argument. It's not just about getting adequate micro & macronutrients, antioxidants, etc. It's also about avoiding consumption of foods that are unhealthy. Are you denying that there are negative effects from consuming sh*tty foods? do I really needs to cite studies to make this point..

I think there are a lot of people that would argue that there is no such thing as an unhealthy food, only an unhealthy diet.

Edit: Also, I'm wondering what the logic is behind specifically demonizing sugar and saturated fat...?

[synthetic]

I think there are a lot of people that would argue that there is no such thing as an unhealthy food, only an unhealthy diet.

Edit: Also, I'm wondering what the logic is behind specifically demonizing sugar and saturated fat...?

demonizing the two because the easily available foods we have, in general already have them, so its easy to go overboard with an unbalanced diet.

[JohnBrowne]

demonizing the two because the easily available foods we have, in general already have them, so its easy to go overboard with an unbalanced diet.

I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean.

[synthetic]

I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean.

lets take a diet of...
eggs + bacon, whole milk + whey, fatty steak+rice, will contain more saturated fat in percentages,

so its better to run those choices lean and create 33% balance of mufa/pufa/sfa by substituting...

so instead:
eggs + avacado, skim milk + nuts + whey, lean steak + olive oil + rice


also a pufa, soybean oil should be demonized too... they add it in to every processed food, which you shouldnt be eating anyways

[JohnBrowne]

lets take a diet of...
eggs + bacon, whole milk + whey, fatty steak+rice, will contain more saturated fat in percentages,

so its better to run those choices lean and create 33% balance of mufa/pufa/sfa by substituting...

so instead:
eggs + avacado, skim milk + nuts + whey, lean steak + olive oil + rice


also a pufa, soybean oil should be demonized too... they add it in to every processed food, which you shouldnt be eating anyways

So you agree that there is nothing intrinsically "bad" about saturated fat?

Bam. Point proven.

What about sugar?

[synthetic]

So you agree that there is nothing intrinsically "bad" about saturated fat?

Bam. Point proven.

What about sugar?

again it is dumped needlessly or in excess to most our foods, cereal, bread, yogurts, chocolate

it has its place, post-during-pre workout, in the bodybuilding world kept to a minimum since heavy cardio is not a part of it.

[bwelch1985]

I think Kurt is going to live to be 150 years old, all the while competing as a heavyweight in the WNBF b/c of the extraordinary cleanliness and optimization of his diet. When that happens he will definately have the last laugh.

As for me, I'll roll the dice and enjoy some pizza and cupcakes once in a while:)

[JohnBrowne]

again it is dumped needlessly or in excess to most our foods, cereal, bread, yogurts, chocolate

it has its place, post-during-pre workout, in the bodybuilding world kept to a minimum since heavy cardio is not a part of it.

If all carbs become blood glucose, why restrict dietary sugars?

[synthetic]

If all carbs become blood glucose, why restrict dietary sugars?

timing is of the essence.... lance armstrong biking 200 miles cannot wait for a whole grain carb to digest when he is reaching glycogen depletion.

None being lance here, it depends on your daily activity and if you reach depletion, bodybuilding on the amature level doesnt pay well, so if you are working a manual labor job, that sugar will help

[JohnBrowne]

timing is of the essence.... lance armstrong biking 200 miles cannot wait for a whole grain carb to digest when he is reaching glycogen depletion.

None being lance here, it depends on your daily activity and if you reach depletion, bodybuilding on the amature level doesnt pay well, so if you are working a manual labor job, that sugar will help

This doesn't even touch at being a substantive response.

[Cumulonimbus]

This doesn't even touch at being a substantive response.

I love comparing endurance athletes to bodybuilders.

[HBMax]

This doesn't even touch at being a substantive response.

Regarding the comparison of bodybuilders to endurance athletes or his use of syntax?

[JohnBrowne]

Regarding the comparison of bodybuilders to endurance athletes or his use of syntax?

The whole post is a blob of incoherence.

[Quelly]

First off, like I said, i'm not attacking Berto...his methods are just an example of things I don't agree with.
I'm glad to hear you aren't attacking Berto, and I if my response seemed defensive or aggressive I apologize.


Based on your argument, I could get away with allowing a percentage of my caloric intake to come from garbage, because my nutrient requirement are already being met. There is a difference between what you can get away with and what is optimal or healthy.

Kurt, if we are going to discuss physiological mechanisms and the effects on the body, we need to make sure our meanings are clear. When you call food "garbage" I don't know what that means. It's subjective, some folks look at grains as garbage, others, cow milk, others even consider fruit garbage.
This term, while clear in your mind, is ambiguous. This can trouble less informed bodybuilders. They eat "clean" without knowing why foods are "clean", they just parrot what has been passed down. My colleague Jeff Alberts, long before he turned pro and studied nutrition, had a prep where he ate "clean", just turkey, chicken, rice cakes, and broccoli. He quickly had an incident in the shower where he cut himself and the blood would not stop, possibly a vitamin K deficiency. This is not an argument against clean eating, just pointing out that without knowing what "clean" or "garbage" means, one could do more harm than good.


You made the strawman argument that Berto at one point was consuming a large amount of calories from healthy food and was fat. excessive calories will cause fat storage. Allocation and balance throughout the day as well as total number of macros all matter. but you need to look at more than just the numbers.

Forgive me for the strawman. My intention was to show that Berto is human, and his body follows the same laws we all do. If it came off as a strawman I apologize. My intention here is not to win, I do not debate, I am here to learn, and to help people. I'm not looking to gain advantage with fallacious arguments.


I remember seeing somewhere (and I could be mistaken) that Berto only eats a few times a day...is that correct? If you require lots of calories wouldn't it make more sense to eat more frequently rather than trying to meet your nutritional needs in 3-4 meals and then allow consumption of sugar laden, fat filled meals?

Berto eats 4 meals/day. And here the research is clear, having larger meals of food with moderate frequency vs smaller, more frequent meals is at best neutral with regards to health, muscle gain, and fat loss and at worst inferior. Recent research by Layne Norton suggests that 4-5 meals/day is superior for muscle gains vs frequent meals, and there is a lot of research showing that even lower frequencies of meals may be better for body fat reduction and health markers. My conclusion based on the evidence is that 4-5 meals is optimal. Eating too frequently, is sub optimal, although for some with difficulty putting down a lot of calories it may be needed.

I think since there are so many serious competitors, coaches, and people interested in optimizing their approach it would be great for everyone to read what the research shows:
http://agro-food-industry.teknoscienze.com/pdf/norton_AF2_09.PDF
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645638/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410865
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405701
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17909674
http://www.e-spenjournal.org/article/S1751-4991(10)00054-5/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494


You misinterpreted my comment about people who are freaks...it was not specific to Berto. My point was that there may be people who can eat sh*t and not have the same visible effects on their physique...but this doesn't justify it, because they could be implementing a more optimal method.

I did misinterpret that, my apologies. That's a great point. Someone's methods are not justified by their physique, a freak doing things sub optimally doesn't mean they are optimal, and someone with poor genetics could look unimpressive doing everything right. Let's just look at evidence, since we can find guys who look amazing following any number of nutritional strategies.


You also misinterpreted what I was saying in regards to insulin. My comment about the baked lays had nothing to do with insulin. My opposition to foods such as baked lay is that they are processed garbage...poor food choice...doesn't matter what the GI rating is! Glycemic index is somewhat irrelevant because bbers tend to eat balanced meals combining proteins and fats with carbs. I was referring to the insulin surge that results from eating a large meal or dessert filled with sugar and or saturated fat. Are you going to argue that's not going to cause fat storage? Insulin response is also related to meal size. You can elicit a strong insulin response from eating a large meal comprised of healthy foods and vice versa...insulin is only part of the picture, though. When identifying optimal carbohydrate source for someone, you need to consider how his/her body responds to different foods. This is something that has to be done on an individual basis and you will not find studies to confirm it.

Kurt, again. I apologize for misinterpreting, I see your point about garbage vs quality.
But, I still don't know what garbage is by your definition. Are potatoes okay while baked chips are not? Baked chips are sliced potato with added salt and seasoning, some oil and baked. Is it the baking process, the salt or the addition of oil that makes it garbage, or the seasoning? Would it be okay to have a baked potato, or would I have to not salt or season it, or should I avoid vegetable oil? Would a baked potato with olive oil, and some seasoning and salt be garbage?
I'm sure you can see my point about defining "garbage"

I also want to address the point you made about the effects of a single meal of healthy foods or junk foods and the acute affects on the body, very interesting study here showing no measurable difference with some good commentary from Lyle.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

That being said, one meal does not tell us what happens over the course of years, I admit that.

As to insulin, this is a frequently misunderstood hormone. And often the victim of slippery slope arguments. Avoiding insulin spikes is missing the big picture, it is looking at insulin as only "a fat storage hormone" when it is more than that.
To offer a parallel, similar logic is applied to cortisol. It is looked at as the "muscle catabolizing hormone", and efforts to avoid it are frequently made in our culture. However, the biggest event most bodybuilders have that increases cortisol is weight lifting. By a similar oversimplification of this hormone, some bodybuilders could logically conclude that they shouldn't lift weights.
There are so many current incorrect and incomplete beliefs about insulin:
Insulin is required to store blood glucose
Insulin spikes are bad
High carb intakes lead to high insulin levels
Carbs drive insulin, which drives fat storage
Carbs are singularly responsible for driving insulin
Insulin is the reason for weight gain in non diabetics

all of the above are false or incomplete

As a coach and a bodybuilder I've benefited from reading this series of articles that is laden with peer reviewed research and I frequently reread it, everyone, if you're serious about bodybuilding take this opportunity and increase your knowledge base and read this series:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=459
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=536
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=571


In your post you identified what I wrote as an article. It really was more of a simple commentary. You may think that I am a simple-minded meathead, but I constantly analyze what i'm putting in my body and I have reasons (much like Tommy) for the choices I make in my consumption. While science plays an important role in providing useful information about the effects/benefits of various foods, ingredients, etc. it cannot tell us everything. You could never conduct enough studies on enough different types of groups to distinguish how each individual might respond to different variables. This is where personal experience and learning your body become absolutely essential.

Kurt, I apologize for misrepresenting your commentary as an article. Truly I do not think of you as a simple minded meathead. That you think that makes me feel like an ass. I tried to represent my views in a respectful way because I respect you. I hope you understand that. I respected your discipline before we met, and when we met I respected you as a person for being up front and straight.
And as far as what studies can tell us, and individual variability. I agree. It would be foolish for anyone, on either side of the fence (or on the fence like me), to believe that he or she had THE answer in light of the point you just made


Furthermore, I think you are missing a big part of my argument. It's not just about getting adequate micro & macronutrients, antioxidants, etc. It's also about avoiding consumption of foods that are unhealthy. Are you denying that there are negative effects from consuming sh*tty foods? do I really needs to cite studies to make this point..

Kurt, I'll stop you right here. If there were studies comparing isocaloric diets with identical macronutrient %'s with one difference: abstinence from "garbage" foods, vs. the inclusion of some "garbage" foods, we wouldn't be having this debate. It would be clear cut. Any study you post to support the viewpoint that abstinence from unhealthy food is better than unhealthy food in moderation would be a slippery slope, since there are no such studies.
But, there are studies showing cholesterol and saturated fats aren't necessarily "bad", and studies showing moderate alcohol, and chocolate consumption is healthier than complete abstinence of them.
here are some studies on alcohol:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10636266
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12393073
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12020337
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15455646
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15562213
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16872514
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8363004
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15957170
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7998629

here are some studies on chocolate:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3001690
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908554/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360667/

here are some studies on cholesterol and saturated fat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797556/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11516237
http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/3/550.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18312812
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1355411
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21385506

[Quelly]

I'm sure that I get more than enough of certain things in my diet, but this is not an excuse to me to eat crap. I prefer to get extra calories from good sources that are not going to be detrimental to my health.

Lastly, everyone has the right to do whatever they want...if you want to eat processed garbage, I don't care. It's not my body! But please do not tell me that it's optimal. The article of my commentary was OPTIMIZATION>
Kurt, it sounds like the two things that are important are health, and optimizing a diet.
From what I have seen anecdotally, and in the research, is that eating moderate amounts of some foods thought traditionally to be "unhealthy", is healthier than abstinence from them.

Like you pointed out, there is not sufficient research to back up either of our arguments for bodybuilding diets. But there are things we could focus on to optimize a diet. As has come up in this discussion, it's clear that a high meal frequency, say over 5, is at best no better than a lower intake of 3-5 meals, and at worst, actually detrimental to muscle mass gains and body comp.

Another one that was not discussed is protein intake. If we go with 5 being the highest meal frequency that doesn't cause a refractory response, and we cover nitrogen balance, and increase protein up into the 2.5-3.0g/kg of bodyweight range where the upper limit of having no health issues is, then we are likely optimal.

Sadly, many many bodybuilders are eating 350-400+g of protein a day and eating 6-8 meals a day. This causes a slower gain of muscle tissue due to the protein dosing being too frequent and its refractory response, and is unhealthy and sub optimal. The body can't use that much protein for building muscle. So, it makes carbohydrate out of the excess via gluconeogenisis. In this case, bodybuilders could decrease protein, decrease meal frequency and increase fat or carbohydrate to optimize their diet.

Big picture issues like this, that have been tested through research, will have a more immediate effect on optimization than the food source discussion we are having which has no clear cut answer. My point is that focusing on the tangible, proven ways to optimize the diet should take precedence over personal opinion on food source.

[AustrianOakJr]

Bodybuilders are meat head neanderthals........:)

THIS is how we discuss/debate on the internet like gentleman!!! I love it. Big time respect to both of you guys.

[DedicatedDad]

I'm glad to hear you aren't attacking Berto, and I if my response seemed defensive or aggressive I apologize.

Kurt, if we are going to discuss physiological mechanisms and the effects on the body, we need to make sure our meanings are clear. When you call food "garbage" I don't know what that means. It's subjective, some folks look at grains as garbage, others, cow milk, others even consider fruit garbage.
This term, while clear in your mind, is ambiguous. This can trouble less informed bodybuilders. They eat "clean" without knowing why foods are "clean", they just parrot what has been passed down. My colleague Jeff Alberts, long before he turned pro and studied nutrition, had a prep where he ate "clean", just turkey, chicken, rice cakes, and broccoli. He quickly had an incident in the shower where he cut himself and the blood would not stop, possibly a vitamin K deficiency. This is not an argument against clean eating, just pointing out that without knowing what "clean" or "garbage" means, one could do more harm than good.

Forgive me for the strawman. My intention was to show that Berto is human, and his body follows the same laws we all do. If it came off as a strawman I apologize. My intention here is not to win, I do not debate, I am here to learn, and to help people. I'm not looking to gain advantage with fallacious arguments.

Berto eats 4 meals/day. And here the research is clear, having larger meals of food with moderate frequency vs smaller, more frequent meals is at best neutral with regards to health, muscle gain, and fat loss and at worst inferior. Recent research by Layne Norton suggests that 4-5 meals/day is superior for muscle gains vs frequent meals, and there is a lot of research showing that even lower frequencies of meals may be better for body fat reduction and health markers. My conclusion based on the evidence is that 4-5 meals is optimal. Eating too frequently, is sub optimal, although for some with difficulty putting down a lot of calories it may be needed.

I think since there are so many serious competitors, coaches, and people interested in optimizing their approach it would be great for everyone to read what the research shows:
http://agro-food-industry.teknoscienze.com/pdf/norton_AF2_09.PDF
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645638/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410865
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405701
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17909674
http://www.e-spenjournal.org/article/S1751-4991(10)00054-5/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

I did misinterpret that, my apologies. That's a great point. Someone's methods are not justified by their physique, a freak doing things sub optimally doesn't mean they are optimal, and someone with poor genetics could look unimpressive doing everything right. Let's just look at evidence, since we can find guys who look amazing following any number of nutritional strategies.

Kurt, again. I apologize for misinterpreting, I see your point about garbage vs quality.
But, I still don't know what garbage is by your definition. Are potatoes okay while baked chips are not? Baked chips are sliced potato with added salt and seasoning, some oil and baked. Is it the baking process, the salt or the addition of oil that makes it garbage, or the seasoning? Would it be okay to have a baked potato, or would I have to not salt or season it, or should I avoid vegetable oil? Would a baked potato with olive oil, and some seasoning and salt be garbage?
I'm sure you can see my point about defining "garbage"

I also want to address the point you made about the effects of a single meal of healthy foods or junk foods and the acute affects on the body, very interesting study here showing no measurable difference with some good commentary from Lyle.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

That being said, one meal does not tell us what happens over the course of years, I admit that.

As to insulin, this is a frequently misunderstood hormone. And often the victim of slippery slope arguments. Avoiding insulin spikes is missing the big picture, it is looking at insulin as only "a fat storage hormone" when it is more than that.
To offer a parallel, similar logic is applied to cortisol. It is looked at as the "muscle catabolizing hormone", and efforts to avoid it are frequently made in our culture. However, the biggest event most bodybuilders have that increases cortisol is weight lifting. By a similar oversimplification of this hormone, some bodybuilders could logically conclude that they shouldn't lift weights.
There are so many current incorrect and incomplete beliefs about insulin:
Insulin is required to store blood glucose
Insulin spikes are bad
High carb intakes lead to high insulin levels
Carbs drive insulin, which drives fat storage
Carbs are singularly responsible for driving insulin
Insulin is the reason for weight gain in non diabetics

all of the above are false or incomplete

As a coach and a bodybuilder I've benefited from reading this series of articles that is laden with peer reviewed research and I frequently reread it, everyone, if you're serious about bodybuilding take this opportunity and increase your knowledge base and read this series:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=459
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=536
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=571

Kurt, I apologize for misrepresenting your commentary as an article. Truly I do not think of you as a simple minded meathead. That you think that makes me feel like an @#!*% . I tried to represent my views in a respectful way because I respect you. I hope you understand that. I respected your discipline before we met, and when we met I respected you as a person for being up front and straight.
And as far as what studies can tell us, and individual variability. I agree. It would be foolish for anyone, on either side of the fence (or on the fence like me), to believe that he or she had THE answer in light of the point you just made

Kurt, I'll stop you right here. If there were studies comparing isocaloric diets with identical macronutrient %'s with one difference: abstinence from "garbage" foods, vs. the inclusion of some "garbage" foods, we wouldn't be having this debate. It would be clear cut. Any study you post to support the viewpoint that abstinence from unhealthy food is better than unhealthy food in moderation would be a slippery slope, since there are no such studies.
But, there are studies showing cholesterol and saturated fats aren't necessarily "bad", and studies showing moderate alcohol, and chocolate consumption is healthier than complete abstinence of them.
here are some studies on alcohol:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10636266
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12393073
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12020337
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15455646
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15562213
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16872514
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8363004
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15957170
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7998629

here are some studies on chocolate:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3001690
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908554/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360667/

here are some studies on cholesterol and saturated fat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797556/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11516237
http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/3/550.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18312812
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1355411
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21385506

This is a great post......

[JohnBrowne]

Woah strong post Eric

[Mr_Aestheticz]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/03/25/friday-325-pr-on-deadlifts/

I think i $#!t my pants!

Just to show again what pure determination and desire get yuh!

Honored to be apart of the same team Kurt!

...EASY!!!

[Animal76]

You certainly did that! I think that is something that we have in common - when both of us lift the heavier weight, we make it look way easier than what it really is. I get comments all the time when I do any leg movement that I make it look easy, when in all reality, even though I may not always show it in my face, I'm struggling my *ss off lol


Sporto

Funny you say that Tommy, because whenever I watch a video of myself doing deadlifts or squats I end up saying to myself, " I remember that last rep feeling a lot harder than it looked!" When i'm doing the set, I feel like can barely complete the last rep and then I watch the set and I think I could have gotten another rep or two.

[devinh]

Funny you say that Tommy, because whenever I watch a video of myself doing deadlifts or squats I end up saying to myself, " I remember that last rep feeling a lot harder than it looked!" When i'm doing the set, I feel like can barely complete the last rep and then I watch the set and I think I could have gotten another rep or two.

I noticed the same thing with my own videos lately. I've been paying much more attention to form the past few months, and doing more recording of lifts, and everything seems so much easier when I watch it, than when I was originally performing the sets. Glad to hear this from you guys, as it seems like it is a good thing.

[synthetic]

Kurt, I'll stop you right here. If there were studies comparing isocaloric diets with identical macronutrient %'s with one difference: abstinence from "garbage" foods, vs. the inclusion of some "garbage" foods, we wouldn't be having this debate. It would be clear cut. Any study you post to support the viewpoint that abstinence from unhealthy food is better than unhealthy food in moderation would be a slippery slope, since there are no such studies.
But, there are studies showing cholesterol and saturated fats aren't necessarily "bad", and studies showing moderate alcohol, and chocolate consumption is healthier than complete abstinence of them.
here are some studies on alcohol:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10636266
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12393073
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12020337
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15455646
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15562213
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16872514
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8363004
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15957170
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7998629

here are some studies on chocolate:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3001690
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908554/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360667/

here are some studies on cholesterol and saturated fat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797556/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11516237
http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/3/550.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18312812
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1355411
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21385506


There is processed chocolate with tons of sugar added, pgpr, fractionated oil added to mimic chocolate taste due to the expense of real cocoa butter. A typical person will not be choosing the dark chocolate, but infested hershey bar instead. Also with cholesterol vs sat fat, its pending on if it is processed or not, and other life style habits such as smoking. These items where not controlled in the original study that demonized saturated fat.

[Animal76]

Eric,
I have only had a chance to look at a couple of the articles you posted. I am very busy with work these days and do not have a lot of time in front of my computer. I just want you to know that i'm not avoiding a response to your post. Thank you for a well thought out and well-documented argument. When I have had to chance to read through everything I will formulate a response...although i feel we will likely just agree to disagree...that's fine, I'm not looking to convert anyone here. While I know i'm not going to change my approach or abandon methods that have provided results for myself, I am open-minded enough to examine the other side of an issue and assess it's validity and applicability from my perspective.
Thanks for all the info!
Kurt



I'm glad to hear you aren't attacking Berto, and I if my response seemed defensive or aggressive I apologize.

Kurt, if we are going to discuss physiological mechanisms and the effects on the body, we need to make sure our meanings are clear. When you call food "garbage" I don't know what that means. It's subjective, some folks look at grains as garbage, others, cow milk, others even consider fruit garbage.
This term, while clear in your mind, is ambiguous. This can trouble less informed bodybuilders. They eat "clean" without knowing why foods are "clean", they just parrot what has been passed down. My colleague Jeff Alberts, long before he turned pro and studied nutrition, had a prep where he ate "clean", just turkey, chicken, rice cakes, and broccoli. He quickly had an incident in the shower where he cut himself and the blood would not stop, possibly a vitamin K deficiency. This is not an argument against clean eating, just pointing out that without knowing what "clean" or "garbage" means, one could do more harm than good.

Forgive me for the strawman. My intention was to show that Berto is human, and his body follows the same laws we all do. If it came off as a strawman I apologize. My intention here is not to win, I do not debate, I am here to learn, and to help people. I'm not looking to gain advantage with fallacious arguments.

Berto eats 4 meals/day. And here the research is clear, having larger meals of food with moderate frequency vs smaller, more frequent meals is at best neutral with regards to health, muscle gain, and fat loss and at worst inferior. Recent research by Layne Norton suggests that 4-5 meals/day is superior for muscle gains vs frequent meals, and there is a lot of research showing that even lower frequencies of meals may be better for body fat reduction and health markers. My conclusion based on the evidence is that 4-5 meals is optimal. Eating too frequently, is sub optimal, although for some with difficulty putting down a lot of calories it may be needed.

I think since there are so many serious competitors, coaches, and people interested in optimizing their approach it would be great for everyone to read what the research shows:
http://agro-food-industry.teknoscienze.com/pdf/norton_AF2_09.PDF
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645638/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410865
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405701
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17909674
http://www.e-spenjournal.org/article/S1751-4991(10)00054-5/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

I did misinterpret that, my apologies. That's a great point. Someone's methods are not justified by their physique, a freak doing things sub optimally doesn't mean they are optimal, and someone with poor genetics could look unimpressive doing everything right. Let's just look at evidence, since we can find guys who look amazing following any number of nutritional strategies.

Kurt, again. I apologize for misinterpreting, I see your point about garbage vs quality.
But, I still don't know what garbage is by your definition. Are potatoes okay while baked chips are not? Baked chips are sliced potato with added salt and seasoning, some oil and baked. Is it the baking process, the salt or the addition of oil that makes it garbage, or the seasoning? Would it be okay to have a baked potato, or would I have to not salt or season it, or should I avoid vegetable oil? Would a baked potato with olive oil, and some seasoning and salt be garbage?
I'm sure you can see my point about defining "garbage"

I also want to address the point you made about the effects of a single meal of healthy foods or junk foods and the acute affects on the body, very interesting study here showing no measurable difference with some good commentary from Lyle.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

That being said, one meal does not tell us what happens over the course of years, I admit that.

As to insulin, this is a frequently misunderstood hormone. And often the victim of slippery slope arguments. Avoiding insulin spikes is missing the big picture, it is looking at insulin as only "a fat storage hormone" when it is more than that.
To offer a parallel, similar logic is applied to cortisol. It is looked at as the "muscle catabolizing hormone", and efforts to avoid it are frequently made in our culture. However, the biggest event most bodybuilders have that increases cortisol is weight lifting. By a similar oversimplification of this hormone, some bodybuilders could logically conclude that they shouldn't lift weights.
There are so many current incorrect and incomplete beliefs about insulin:
Insulin is required to store blood glucose
Insulin spikes are bad
High carb intakes lead to high insulin levels
Carbs drive insulin, which drives fat storage
Carbs are singularly responsible for driving insulin
Insulin is the reason for weight gain in non diabetics

all of the above are false or incomplete

As a coach and a bodybuilder I've benefited from reading this series of articles that is laden with peer reviewed research and I frequently reread it, everyone, if you're serious about bodybuilding take this opportunity and increase your knowledge base and read this series:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=459
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=536
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=571

Kurt, I apologize for misrepresenting your commentary as an article. Truly I do not think of you as a simple minded meathead. That you think that makes me feel like an ass. I tried to represent my views in a respectful way because I respect you. I hope you understand that. I respected your discipline before we met, and when we met I respected you as a person for being up front and straight.
And as far as what studies can tell us, and individual variability. I agree. It would be foolish for anyone, on either side of the fence (or on the fence like me), to believe that he or she had THE answer in light of the point you just made

Kurt, I'll stop you right here. If there were studies comparing isocaloric diets with identical macronutrient %'s with one difference: abstinence from "garbage" foods, vs. the inclusion of some "garbage" foods, we wouldn't be having this debate. It would be clear cut. Any study you post to support the viewpoint that abstinence from unhealthy food is better than unhealthy food in moderation would be a slippery slope, since there are no such studies.
But, there are studies showing cholesterol and saturated fats aren't necessarily "bad", and studies showing moderate alcohol, and chocolate consumption is healthier than complete abstinence of them.
here are some studies on alcohol:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10636266
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12393073
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12020337
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15455646
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15562213
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16872514
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8363004
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15957170
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7998629

here are some studies on chocolate:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3001690
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908554/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360667/

here are some studies on cholesterol and saturated fat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797556/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11516237
http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/3/550.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18312812
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1355411
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21385506

[Quelly]

Eric,
I have only had a chance to look at a couple of the articles you posted. I am very busy with work these days and do not have a lot of time in front of my computer. I just want you to know that i'm not avoiding a response to your post. Thank you for a well thought out and well-documented argument. When I have had to chance to read through everything I will formulate a response...although i feel we will likely just agree to disagree...that's fine, I'm not looking to convert anyone here. While I know i'm not going to change my approach or abandon methods that have provided results for myself, I am open-minded enough to examine the other side of an issue and assess it's validity and applicability from my perspective.
Thanks for all the info!
Kurt

And that's why I respect you. Take your time, I know I wrote an effing book lol.

I want to point out that I'm no fanatic or true believer. I keep an open mind and am open to learning. I have to be, I teach this stuff at the college level, coach athletes and clients, I'm pursuing a graduate degree in the field, I stay up on my continuing education as a personal trainer, and it makes me a better athlete.
I am very willing to examine your point of view and perspective, and that's the funny thing about this stuff, if I had your perspective I would share your beliefs. So I am sure there is something for me to come away with here and I appreciate you engaging me in discussion.

On a philosophical note, like you said, we can't know definitively the answer to the question we are asking, at best we can say that we are both "convinced" that our approaches each are optimal.
However, a big reason we promote flexibility in a diet and the inclusion of the occasional "cheat food" is not only because I feel an optimal diet consists of including healthy foods while finding the right calorie and macro balance (vs excluding foods), is because of the psychological and sociological factors.
I myself have had my relationships with family, friends, my job, and my own happiness suffer because of the way I approached my diet and nearly developed an ED in 07 post contest. Berto had similar struggles being overweight, and MANY physique athletes struggle with EDs and similar emotional strains.
Having flexibility in meal frequency, timing, and food source allows balance for folks that aren't mentally or emotionally at the place as the vets in this sport are. It just so happens that in our experience, and in the research that is applicable to this argument, it's likely that it's not less optimal than the traditional approach too (in my opinion).
So just some perspective there.

[Beast]

Berto eats 4 meals/day. And here the research is clear, having larger meals of food with moderate frequency vs smaller, more frequent meals is at best neutral with regards to health, muscle gain, and fat loss and at worst inferior. Recent research by Layne Norton suggests that 4-5 meals/day is superior for muscle gains vs frequent meals, and there is a lot of research showing that even lower frequencies of meals may be better for body fat reduction and health markers. My conclusion based on the evidence is that 4-5 meals is optimal. Eating too frequently, is sub optimal, although for some with difficulty putting down a lot of calories it may be needed.

I think since there are so many serious competitors, coaches, and people interested in optimizing their approach it would be great for everyone to read what the research shows:
http://agro-food-industry.teknoscienze.com/pdf/norton_AF2_09.PDF
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645638/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410865
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405701
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17909674
http://www.e-spenjournal.org/article/S1751-4991(10)00054-5/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

I too am a fan of eating less frequently (I eat 5 meals a day). I base this on the fact that it takes up to 5 hours to digest a meal, so IMO it doesn't make sense to eat another meal while you are still digesting your previous meal. I personally do not like to apply studies done in sedentary obese subjects to active, lean individuals but yes you can draw some insight from them.

Layne's research is good and science supports that it is the PEAK in amino acids levels that causes the greatest increase in protein synthesis. I would love to see some sort of similar study done in active men instead of rats, but I don't know how soon we would see something like that :(




Kurt, again. I apologize for misinterpreting, I see your point about garbage vs quality.
But, I still don't know what garbage is by your definition. Are potatoes okay while baked chips are not? Baked chips are sliced potato with added salt and seasoning, some oil and baked. Is it the baking process, the salt or the addition of oil that makes it garbage, or the seasoning? Would it be okay to have a baked potato, or would I have to not salt or season it, or should I avoid vegetable oil? Would a baked potato with olive oil, and some seasoning and salt be garbage?
I'm sure you can see my point about defining "garbage"

http://www.fritolay.com/assets/images/bigVault/lays-baked-original.jpg
Dried Potatoes, Corn Starch, Sugar, Corn Oil, Salt, Soy Lecithin, and Corn Sugar.

I eat some baked lays here and there in the offseason, but IMO a baked potato > baked lays. The baked lays, while way better than fried potato chips, are still processed and I can see why competitive bodybuilders would want to opt for another option. The flavors versions do have additional added ingredients:
http://www.fritolay.com/assets/images/bigVault/lays-baked-bbq.gif

I think the main point Kurt is trying to make is when it comes to competitive bodybuilding and overall health it is best to limit the amount of additives (i.e. modified corn starch, preservatives, etc.) and go with more "natural"/unprocessed foods.



But, there are studies showing cholesterol and saturated fats aren't necessarily "bad", and studies showing moderate alcohol, and chocolate consumption is healthier than complete abstinence of them.
here are some studies on alcohol:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10636266
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12393073
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12020337
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15455646
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15562213
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16872514
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8363004
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15957170
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7998629

here are some studies on chocolate:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3001690
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908554/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1360667/

here are some studies on cholesterol and saturated fat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797556/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11516237
http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/3/550.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18312812
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1355411
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21385506

I do not think cholesterol and saturated fats are bad either depending on the source. I get saturated fat and cholesterol from free range organic eggs, grass-fed beef, extra virgin coconul oil.

Regarding chocolate I wouldn't apply the above studies, like the one entitled "High cocoa polyphenol rich chocolate may reduce the burden of the symptoms in chronic fatigue syndrome" to a candy bar... If you bought actually high cocoa chocolate (ideally without a ton of added sugar) sure, but snickers/milky way not so much. Mmm chocolate!
http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/content/pictures/homer/HomerSimpson47.gif

[Quelly]

Derek, very thoughtful response, and I want to be clear, my discussion of a baked potato vs baked chips was not to say that baked chips are the same thing or not "garbage", but just to point out that without defining what "garbage" means, it's tough to even have a discussion.

And the inclusion of the studies on alcohol, chocolate, saturated fat and cholesterol was not to say that alcoholic beverages and foods high in fat, cholesterol, and chocolate candy bars actually are clean foods (trust me I'm not saying that!), but more to show that we should think more critically and apply more complete definitions to food sources than simply 2 categories "clean" and "unclean" "healthy" and "unhealthy".

My point is that these studies show that one cannot evaluate the quality of a food without keeping in mind the quantity and frequency that it is being eaten. I could make an argument that the occasional drinker is healthier than the person who never drinks alcohol, and I could make the argument that the dark chocolate aficionado who eats it occasionally is healthier than the person who never eats it. Same as the person who only eats egg whites versus the person who includes some whole eggs.

My belief, is that if we all challenge ourselves to look at the complete picture and not simply characterize and label foods as "good or bad", we have a more complete picture of nutrition.

I think a part of the problem here is that there might be some implied strawman arguments going against folks who include some "garbage" foods in their diet. Most of the bodybuilders in question who include these foods do it in moderation and it is a minority portion of their diet. It is easy to characterize the approach of less restriction of food source as lazy or just cheating on their diets, but in reality only a few meals out of the week include these foods. And they are still weighed and tracked.

Lastly, avoiding additives and processing is fine. There are some additives that are harmful in certain amounts and there are some refining processes that strip foods of some of their nutritive value. But again, I caution against blanket labeling of foods as "processed" or "natural" and advise a more thoughtful approach of knowing what additives and at what dosage carry certain health risks and what refinement processes strip certain foods of which nutrients.

[COZ999]

And that's why I respect you. Take your time, I know I wrote an effing book lol.

I want to point out that I'm no fanatic or true believer. I keep an open mind and am open to learning. I have to be, I teach this stuff at the college level, coach athletes and clients, I'm pursuing a graduate degree in the field, I stay up on my continuing education as a personal trainer, and it makes me a better athlete.
I am very willing to examine your point of view and perspective, and that's the funny thing about this stuff, if I had your perspective I would share your beliefs. So I am sure there is something for me to come away with here and I appreciate you engaging me in discussion.

On a philosophical note, like you said, we can't know definitively the answer to the question we are asking, at best we can say that we are both "convinced" that our approaches each are optimal.
However, a big reason we promote flexibility in a diet and the inclusion of the occasional "cheat food" is not only because I feel an optimal diet consists of including healthy foods while finding the right calorie and macro balance (vs excluding foods), is because of the psychological and sociological factors.
I myself have had my relationships with family, friends, my job, and my own happiness suffer because of the way I approached my diet and nearly developed an ED in 07 post contest. Berto had similar struggles being overweight, and MANY physique athletes struggle with EDs and similar emotional strains.
Having flexibility in meal frequency, timing, and food source allows balance for folks that aren't mentally or emotionally at the place as the vets in this sport are. It just so happens that in our experience, and in the research that is applicable to this argument, it's likely that it's likely not less optimal than the traditional approach too (in my opinion).
So just some perspective there.

ED. Took me a second. Guess my mind was somewhere else

[Beast]

Derek, very thoughtful response, and I want to be clear, my discussion of a baked potato vs baked chips was not to say that baked chips are the same thing or not "garbage", but just to point out that without defining what "garbage" means, it's tough to even have a discussion.

And the inclusion of the studies on alcohol, chocolate, saturated fat and cholesterol was not to say that alcoholic beverages and foods high in fat, cholesterol, and chocolate candy bars actually are clean foods (trust me I'm not saying that!), but more to show that we should think more critically and apply more complete definitions to food sources than simply 2 categories "clean" and "unclean" "healthy" and "unhealthy".



Gotcha. That is a good point that establishing what is meant with "clean" food or "dirty" food has to be done before an argument/point can be made.




My point is that these studies show that one cannot evaluate the quality of a food without keeping in mind the quantity and frequency that it is being eaten. I could make an argument that the occasional drinker is healthier than the person who never drinks alcohol, and I could make the argument that the dark chocolate aficionado who eats it occasionally is healthier than the person who never eats it. Same as the person who only eats egg whites versus the person who includes some whole eggs.

My belief, is that if we all challenge ourselves to look at the complete picture and not simply characterize and label foods as "good or bad", we have a more complete picture of nutrition.

I agree with that. Like I said in my previous post I eat food some would consider bad because they are high in saturated fat (free range eggs, grass fed beef, extra virgin coconut oil). But if you actually look into the nutrients these foods supply you see that they are VERY healthy.



I think a part of the problem here is that there might be some implied strawman arguments going against folks who include some "garbage" foods in their diet. Most of the bodybuilders in question who include these foods do it in moderation and it is a minority portion of their diet. It is easy to characterize the approach of less restriction of food source as lazy or just cheating on their diets, but in reality only a few meals out of the week include these foods. And they are still weighed and tracked.


To some though one meal with such foods during contest prep is unacceptable, weighed/tracked or not, as to them food quality (again what that means has to be established) is more important than calories/macros.

I personally have seen some contest prep journal entries where foods that most bodybuilders wouldn't eat during contest prep are eaten daily. And in these cases when someone looks at their journal and they see all the daily pics of such foods you can understand how it gives the impression of a diet with "junk food" (and by junk food I mean food than competitive bodybuilders would normally avoid [i.e. lucky charms and hot dogs]). I think people get defensive because such pics/journals portray the notion that it is ok or the norm to eat these foods during contest prep, which is the opposite of what they feel bodybuilding should portray.

I personally think there are distinctions of what kind of diet one is following ranging from less strict to most strict in food choices concerning how it affects your progress/results:
Muscle Gain (non-competitive bodybuilder) --> Off-Season (competitive bodybuilder) --> Cutting/Fat Loss (non-competitive bodybuilder) --> Contest Prep (competitive bodybuilder)

The term "contest prep" implies one is following a strict diet for the best results possible. Many, including myself, do not think lucky charms and hot dogs will give the best results no matter what their calorie/macro content or often often they are eaten. Perhaps that is just the obsessive nature of bodybuilders. I know that if I could eat pizza and ice cream everyday (two foods I really enjoy eating :)) while getting into contest conditition in the same time frame I could when not eating pizza and ice cream I can't say I wouldn't eat them :D



Lastly, avoiding additives and processing is fine. There are some additives that are harmful in certain amounts and there are some refining processes that strip foods of some of their nutritive value. But again, I caution against blanket labeling of foods as "processed" or "natural" and advise a more thoughtful approach of knowing what additives and at what dosage carry certain health risks and what refinement processes strip certain foods of which nutrients.

I personally opt for the most natural (unprocessed, lacking proservative, meat from sourcing fed their NATURAL diet and not corn/soy, among other things) option whenever possible. I would rather not eat food with additives than eat additives that are ok under level X but not above level 2X.

[Quelly]

I'd say I pretty much agree with everything you said here Derek, I just want to point out a couple of things


I know that if I could eat pizza and ice cream everyday (two foods I really enjoy eating :)) while getting into contest conditition in the same time frame I could when not eating pizza and ice cream I can't say I wouldn't eat them :D
And I think some of the logs in question where people have posted hot dogs and ice cream and pizza (of course low fat ice cream, home made pizza, and low fat hot dogs) actually are made by folks who have gotten ridiculously shredded. Is it optimal? That's a debate that probably will never end and it's very individual and based on how many calories they have to play with in my opinion. But it is a reality that you can get shredded eating less than super strict food sources.




I personally opt for the most natural (unprocessed, lacking proservative, meat from sourcing fed their NATURAL diet and not corn/soy, among other things) option whenever possible. I would rather not eat food with additives than eat additives that are ok under level X but not above level 2X.
And that is a perfectly fine line to set for yourself. But it's important to note that too much of anything natural or not is unhealthy. Too much water can kill you, ricin is natural but 20mg/kg will kill you.
Things are not black and white, or just good or bad. Applying a "dont eat this eat that" philosophy is a way to avoid certain foods and a lifestyle to adopt in order to be healthier. However, it is not the only way. I'll use alcohol again since it's easy.
Some people, simply cannot drink alcohol in moderation, these are addicts, they drink so much it is unhealthy. However, drinking some alcohol is healthier than drinking none. But these folks don't have that option, so the lifestyle they choose is the one that works for them to be the healthiest THEY can be.
An abstinence to avoiding processed foods is a valid lifestyle. But I argue it is nothing more than that, to take it a step further and criticize people who can get the same result with a different approach is unnecessarily divisive.
As bodybuilders we have so much more in common than we have that separates us. And to blast other dedicated bodybuilders who apply their OCD approach to contest prep a little differently with regards to food source is divisive in our already niche culture.
It is unhelpful for folks who eat liberally to criticize those who have adopted a lifestyle like Kurt in which they abstain from any and all processed foods, and it is unhelpful for folks who eat like Kurt to criticize those who approach certain foods in moderation.
Bodybuilding itself is a lifestyle, that is an often quoted phrase in our culture...and the word lifestyle itself (style being imperative) implies that it has to be individually adapted and customized.
To criticize a lifestyle is to ignore the implications of the individuality of each bodybuilder and to ignore where they have been, who they are, and where they may end up.

What's funny, is that two bodybuilders could compete, do EXTREMELY well and have progressed through their careers with two different approaches on this topic, and they would have nothing to say to each other except positive things if they avoided this topic.

That to me points out that there may be a level of focus being put on this topic that is not actually helping our sport but creating unnecessary division.

I would suggest that at the root of most conflict in the world, is a belief that "For me to be right, you have to be wrong". And I think this is one of the more hurtful mindsets that has plagued humanity for as long as recorded history.

[JohnBrowne]

Derek can you actually tell me which ingredients in Baked Lays you would specifically avoid? I don't see any hydrogenated fats...

If your argument is based purely on ALL artificial additives being "bad" then I think your view lacks substance.

[synthetic]

Derek can you actually tell me which ingredients in Baked Lays you would specifically avoid? I don't see any hydrogenated fats...

If your argument is based purely on ALL artificial additives being "bad" then I think your view lacks substance.

soybean oil would be good to avoid, not because of the GMO, but you dont know how the source processed it.

For instance, wendy's came out with transfat free fries by not using hydrogenated frying oil... they got sued for having transfat in the fries..why? Because the factory they purchased the potato cuts would prefry the product..

[JohnBrowne]

soybean oil would be good to avoid, not because of the GMO, but you dont know how the source processed it.

For instance, wendy's came out with transfat free fries by not using hydrogenated frying oil... they got sued for having transfat in the fries..why? Because the factory they purchased the potato cuts would prefry the product..

Um... Wendy's never claimed that their fries were free of hydrogenated oil. I'm fairly sure the suit was dismissed.

[Beast]

Derek can you actually tell me which ingredients in Baked Lays you would specifically avoid? I don't see any hydrogenated fats...

If your argument is based purely on ALL artificial additives being "bad" then I think your view lacks substance.

Note in my post I said I eat some baked lays in the off-season and I also said a baked potato > baked lays > fried chips. My argument is that an unprocessed potato is better than a processed potato chip.

Corn Oil has an omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of close to 50:1. Ideally this ratio should be 3:1 so I am not too fond of corn oil. While the amount in baked lays may be small per serving it still contributes over time, especially if eaten frequently.

Biomed Pharmacother. 2002 Oct;56(8):365-79.
The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids.Simopoulos AP.
The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, DC 20009, USA. cgnh@bellatlantic.net
AbstractSeveral sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of approximately 1 whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1-16.7/1. Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a low omega-6/omega-3 ratio) exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2-3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. These studies indicate that the optimal ratio may vary with the disease under consideration. This is consistent with the fact that chronic diseases are multigenic and multifactorial. Therefore, it is quite possible that the therapeutic dose of omega-3 fatty acids will depend on the degree of severity of disease resulting from the genetic predisposition. A lower ratio of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids is more desirable in reducing the risk of many of the chronic diseases of high prevalence in Western societies, as well as in the developing countries, that are being exported to the rest of the world.

[JohnBrowne]

So you're honestly concerned about 2g of fat from corn oil?

[Beast]

So you're honestly concerned about 2g of fat from corn oil?

I don't think ingesting 2 grams of corn oil would have any dire effects, but I would rather eat other fat sources. If you eat 2 servings of baked lays you are getting around 4g of fat. Would you purposely take a tsp of corn oil (supplies around 4-5g of fat) to reach your fat requirement for a meal?

[JohnBrowne]

I don't think ingesting 2 grams of corn oil would have any dire effects, but I would rather eat other fat sources. If you eat 2 servings of baked lays you are getting around 4g of fat. Would you purposely take a tsp of corn oil (supplies around 4-5g of fat) to reach your fat requirement for a meal?

I would never eat only 4-5g of fat in a meal so no, I wouldn't.

In a given day I eat 80g+ of fat and most people - even dieting - are at least at 40g a day. Getting a TENTH of one's daily dietary fat from corn oil is totally insignificant.

[Beast]

I would never eat only 4-5g of fat in a meal so no, I wouldn't.

In a given day I eat 80g+ of fat and most people - even dieting - are at least at 40g a day. Getting a TENTH of one's daily dietary fat from corn oil is totally insignificant.

I didn't say only eat 4-5 of fat in a meal... ok so let's say you are having 15g of fat in a meal comprised of protein, carbs, and fat. You have 10g of your fat accounted for but need 5 more grams. Would you take a tsp of corn oil to get those 5 grams?

Again I don't there is anything wrong with eating baked lays in moderation, but I do think there are better food choices out there.

[JohnBrowne]

I didn't say only eat 4-5 of fat in a meal... ok so let's say you are having 15g of fat in a meal comprised of protein, carbs, and fat. You have 10g of your fat accounted for but need 5 more grams. Would you take a tsp of corn oil to get those 5 grams?

Assuming the other 10g of fat is from a more omega-3 dominant fat source then yes, absolutely.

[AustrianOakJr]

However, a big reason we promote flexibility in a diet and the inclusion of the occasional "cheat food" is not only because I feel an optimal diet consists of including healthy foods while finding the right calorie and macro balance (vs excluding foods), is because of the psychological and sociological factors.


I think this is probably this biggest issue surrounding the whole eat clean vs. moderation debate. The fact of the matter is that bodybuilding should be a PART of ones life.....not life itself. Unless you are Jay Cutler making a mint off of Hydroxycut adverts then bodybuilding should be a hobby and balanced with more important things in life.....like relationships. Much of the quality time spent with the people we love is centered around food. Easter is coming up. I'll be 5 weeks out from competition......but im going out to eat with my family b/c family time is most important. I will eat sensibly and most likely eat more conservatively than my calorie allowance for the day, but I am not going to stress about macros and worry about my food source for the day. I will enjoy the day with my family celebrating something that is really important to us. This is just one example of how flexibility in diet allows for a balanced approach to life. If I restrict myself to a list of pre-approved foods and only eat at certain times of the day, I am missing out on so much......my family is missing out on so much....because I am worried about bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is a major part of my life but not at the expense of whats really important.

[SupaaJ]

....with that said, if you eat chips, EAT chips.

Full fat Kettle.
Taters.
Oil.
Salt.

:D

Back to your regularly schedule "srs bsns" talk.

[Quelly]

let's not let this get TOO out of hand. The calorie is not a calorie thread in contest prep is probably a better place to debate this than Tommy and Kurt's thread, starting to feel guilty for hijacking.

[Animal76]

Great points Derek! While I am willing to examine studies I must also question their applicability to my own situation. One of the first things in question about the studies before even looking at them was about the subjects. How I respond to a specific nutritional plan is not necessarily going to be the same as an average joe who might be far more inactive, has a slower metabolism and higher bodyfat. One thing you have to recognize is that each individual is very different…different in terms of hormonal structure, muscular structure, how their bodies cope with/respond to stress, etc. As a result how each person is going to respond to a manipulation of variables is going to be different. The problem with giving too much weight to studies like these is that you are assuming the subjects are representative of the entire population (which they may not be) and we specifically are interested in how manipulation of variables effects a very small, specific niche of the population (competitive natural bodybuilders). Even within a group of bodybuilders, you will find vast differences that will require individuals to use very different approaches to reach success…although there will always be common ground.
I can tell you this much, I actually considered how I could reduce the number of meals to meet the suggested application. With my schedule, activity level, training volume, etc. reducing my meals to 4-5 a day simply would not work. I think Derek made a great point in that you should not eat if you're not hungry. If your last meal is still digesting, then there's no reason to force more meals in...they will not be beneficial. I can tell you that even when i'm consuming more calories in the off-season, I am ravenous after 2-3 hrs. If I had to wait 4-6 hrs to eat my next meal, i'd likely end up eating one of my clients. I do not just eat because I assume my body needs another meal. I would not eat if i'm not hungry...but physiological hunger is an indication that the body is requiring food. Trust me, I wish I only had to eat 5 meals a day...it would be more convenient (and less expensive), but i'm not looking for convenience. I also considered the size of the meals required to meet the same caloric needs if I only ate 4-5 times. I could not imagine eating a pre-workout meal of 1000 calories. With my style of training, this would not work well. Furthermore I think eating 4-5 meals a day of 800-1000 calories (spread apart by 4 or more hrs) would cause some issues with blood sugar fluctuation. I do think that some of my clients could benefit from the approach of less meals, because their needs are obviously different from mine and their lifestyles may be very different as well (someone who sits at a desk all day.
In regards to eating clean, I realize that I was vague by using terms like “garbage”…I guess wasn’t interested in providing a never ending list of what’s acceptable/not acceptable from my perspective. Derek really nailed it though by identifying the aversion to food additives found in processed foods (we could have a never ending argument about what’s processed…let’s not). As I alluded to before, my approach is one that has evolved over a number of years. Over the course of my bodybuilding career, I continued to be much stricter about what I allowed in my contest preparation diet…what I saw was that I continued to present a harder, granier physique when I hit the stage. There were certain things that got eliminated during prep: anything with additives, dairy (milk, cheese), anything with wheat or gluten (basically all flour-based products), processed sugars, etc (this is just an example to name a few things but is not all-inclusive). In addition to noticing how much harder my physique looked as a result I also noticed how much better I felt during my contest prep versus my off-season. Knowing the importance of making gains in the off-season, I obviously looked to optimize my off-season nutrition as well. Inclusion of these formerly mentioned foods (+ maybe some others) in the off-season became fewer and farther in between uses. By only allowing such things to sneak into my off-season diet now and again it became even more obvious TO ME that they made me feel and look like sh*t…hence my decision to more or less eliminate them or go with what I deem to be better sources of nutrients.
I do agree with Eric that there is a need for certain things like saturated fat in the diet. Again everyone has to discover for themselves what they respond best to. I have always responded very well to red meat, specifically steak. I use flank steak leading up to a show to look my best onstage. Interestingly this current off-season I was struggling with my weight remaining too low. Despite increasing calories from both fat (even sources with saturated fat) and carbs, my weight was unresponsive. The weekend of the Arnold Classic I realized that I hadn’t been eating a lot of red meat. I returned home with a plan to incorporate steak every day as an experiment, knowing that during prep Steak has always been part of my arsenal. I ate 7-8 oz flank for my preworkout meal every day and then also ate 8-12oz steak on my days off for a week. Within a week my weight was up about 3-4 lbs (back to my typical 216-218 lbs off-season rage) without any noticeable effects on my body composition. Additionally my strength and energy in the gym were better and I was setting PRs on multiple lifts. My point in mentioning this is that sources are not equal. My body specifically responds better to steak. If the argument is about saturated fat, I had increased other fat sources with saturated fat prior and did not get the same result. Others may not get the same result. Each individual has to recognize the best sources for them, but I would still argue certain sources are inferior period.
In response to something I’ve seen many people post, I do not understand why eating clean has to be considered “suffering”. I simply do not see it that way. I enjoy what I eat. I do not mind eating broccoli 3-4 times a day or eating veggies up to 6 times a day. I feel better as a result. I do not want to eat processed foods, not do I miss eating them. So for those who think I’m too black/white, or for JohnBrowne, who stated “Kurt sounds like he knows very little about nutritional science”, I have reasons for what I do. Part of what motivates me to utilize my black/white methods is the results I’ve gotten in comparison to the way I’ve done things in the past. My physique may not be the least bit impressive, but it’s come a long way from where I started and I attribute improvements I’ve made in my stage appearance to how strict I’ve been with my diet (this means food sources). Additionally, I am influenced and motivated by what I see in the methods of bodybuilders who to me are extremely impressive. If I saw guys like Brian Whitacre and Doug Miller only worrying about hitting their macros or only eating 4-5 meals a day, then I’d consider implementing a similar approach. I know from talking to each of them that their approach is very similar to mine and they likely agree with much of what I’m saying, but I’ll let them speak for themselves. Both Brian and Doug have shown tremendous off-season gains and their hardness/conditioning onstage is unmatched. I also know their training style is somewhat similar to mine. Tommy Jeffers serves as another great example. Having changed methods from hitting numbers to concerning himself with sources, Tommy brought an entirely different package to the stage in 2009 and frankly he looked f***ing incredible!!! He attributes the difference to selection of sources. This is the type of evidence I rely on, not studies.

[Animal76]

This is a matter of personal opinion. I do not feel like I am missing out on anything and I would choose to eat the way I do regardless of whether I step onstage. I find no problem balancing what I do for bodybuilding with everything else in my life. My family eat pretty healthy, but if we get together I might bring my own food...no big deal, they understand and I don't complain about it. It's what i choose to do.


I think this is probably this biggest issue surrounding the whole eat clean vs. moderation debate. The fact of the matter is that bodybuilding should be a PART of ones life.....not life itself. Unless you are Jay Cutler making a mint off of Hydroxycut adverts then bodybuilding should be a hobby and balanced with more important things in life.....like relationships. Much of the quality time spent with the people we love is centered around food. Easter is coming up. I'll be 5 weeks out from competition......but im going out to eat with my family b/c family time is most important. I will eat sensibly and most likely eat more conservatively than my calorie allowance for the day, but I am not going to stress about macros and worry about my food source for the day. I will enjoy the day with my family celebrating something that is really important to us. This is just one example of how flexibility in diet allows for a balanced approach to life. If I restrict myself to a list of pre-approved foods and only eat at certain times of the day, I am missing out on so much......my family is missing out on so much....because I am worried about bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is a major part of my life but not at the expense of whats really important.

[Quelly]

Great points Derek! While I am willing to examine studies I must also question their applicability to my own situation. One of the first things in question about the studies before even looking at them was about the subjects. How I respond to a specific nutritional plan is not necessarily going to be the same as an average joe who might be far more inactive, has a slower metabolism and higher bodyfat. One thing you have to recognize is that each individual is very different…different in terms of hormonal structure, muscular structure, how their bodies cope with/respond to stress, etc. As a result how each person is going to respond to a manipulation of variables is going to be different. The problem with giving too much weight to studies like these is that you are assuming the subjects are representative of the entire population (which they may not be) and we specifically are interested in how manipulation of variables effects a very small, specific niche of the population (competitive natural bodybuilders). Even within a group of bodybuilders, you will find vast differences that will require individuals to use very different approaches to reach success…although there will always be common ground.
I can tell you this much, I actually considered how I could reduce the number of meals to meet the suggested application. With my schedule, activity level, training volume, etc. reducing my meals to 4-5 a day simply would not work. I think Derek made a great point in that you should not eat if you're not hungry. If your last meal is still digesting, then there's no reason to force more meals in...they will not be beneficial. I can tell you that even when i'm consuming more calories in the off-season, I am ravenous after 2-3 hrs. If I had to wait 4-6 hrs to eat my next meal, i'd likely end up eating one of my clients. I do not just eat because I assume my body needs another meal. I would not eat if i'm not hungry...but physiological hunger is an indication that the body is requiring food. Trust me, I wish I only had to eat 5 meals a day...it would be more convenient (and less expensive), but i'm not looking for convenience. I also considered the size of the meals required to meet the same caloric needs if I only ate 4-5 times. I could not imagine eating a pre-workout meal of 1000 calories. With my style of training, this would not work well. Furthermore I think eating 4-5 meals a day of 800-1000 calories (spread apart by 4 or more hrs) would cause some issues with blood sugar fluctuation. I do think that some of my clients could benefit from the approach of less meals, because their needs are obviously different from mine and their lifestyles may be very different as well (someone who sits at a desk all day.
In regards to eating clean, I realize that I was vague by using terms like “garbage”…I guess wasn’t interested in providing a never ending list of what’s acceptable/not acceptable from my perspective. Derek really nailed it though by identifying the aversion to food additives found in processed foods (we could have a never ending argument about what’s processed…let’s not). As I alluded to before, my approach is one that has evolved over a number of years. Over the course of my bodybuilding career, I continued to be much stricter about what I allowed in my contest preparation diet…what I saw was that I continued to present a harder, granier physique when I hit the stage. There were certain things that got eliminated during prep: anything with additives, dairy (milk, cheese), anything with wheat or gluten (basically all flour-based products), processed sugars, etc (this is just an example to name a few things but is not all-inclusive). In addition to noticing how much harder my physique looked as a result I also noticed how much better I felt during my contest prep versus my off-season. Knowing the importance of making gains in the off-season, I obviously looked to optimize my off-season nutrition as well. Inclusion of these formerly mentioned foods (+ maybe some others) in the off-season became fewer and farther in between uses. By only allowing such things to sneak into my off-season diet now and again it became even more obvious TO ME that they made me feel and look like sh*t…hence my decision to more or less eliminate them or go with what I deem to be better sources of nutrients.
I do agree with Eric that there is a need for certain things like saturated fat in the diet. Again everyone has to discover for themselves what they respond best to. I have always responded very well to red meat, specifically steak. I use flank steak leading up to a show to look my best onstage. Interestingly this current off-season I was struggling with my weight remaining too low. Despite increasing calories from both fat (even sources with saturated fat) and carbs, my weight was unresponsive. The weekend of the Arnold Classic I realized that I hadn’t been eating a lot of red meat. I returned home with a plan to incorporate steak every day as an experiment, knowing that during prep Steak has always been part of my arsenal. I ate 7-8 oz flank for my preworkout meal every day and then also ate 8-12oz steak on my days off for a week. Within a week my weight was up about 3-4 lbs (back to my typical 216-218 lbs off-season rage) without any noticeable effects on my body composition. Additionally my strength and energy in the gym were better and I was setting PRs on multiple lifts. My point in mentioning this is that sources are not equal. My body specifically responds better to steak. If the argument is about saturated fat, I had increased other fat sources with saturated fat prior and did not get the same result. Others may not get the same result. Each individual has to recognize the best sources for them, but I would still argue certain sources are inferior period.
In response to something I’ve seen many people post, I do not understand why eating clean has to be considered “suffering”. I simply do not see it that way. I enjoy what I eat. I do not mind eating broccoli 3-4 times a day or eating veggies up to 6 times a day. I feel better as a result. I do not want to eat processed foods, not do I miss eating them. So for those who think I’m too black/white, or for JohnBrowne, who stated “Kurt sounds like he knows very little about nutritional science”, I have reasons for what I do. Part of what motivates me to utilize my black/white methods is the results I’ve gotten in comparison to the way I’ve done things in the past. My physique may not be the least bit impressive, but it’s come a long way from where I started and I attribute improvements I’ve made in my stage appearance to how strict I’ve been with my diet (this means food sources). Additionally, I am influenced and motivated by what I see in the methods of bodybuilders who to me are extremely impressive. If I saw guys like Brian Whitacre and Doug Miller only worrying about hitting their macros or only eating 4-5 meals a day, then I’d consider implementing a similar approach. I know from talking to each of them that their approach is very similar to mine and they likely agree with much of what I’m saying, but I’ll let them speak for themselves. Both Brian and Doug have shown tremendous off-season gains and their hardness/conditioning onstage is unmatched. I also know their training style is somewhat similar to mine. Tommy Jeffers serves as another great example. Having changed methods from hitting numbers to concerning himself with sources, Tommy brought an entirely different package to the stage in 2009 and frankly he looked f***ing incredible!!! He attributes the difference to selection of sources. This is the type of evidence I rely on, not studies.

Kurt I agree 100% with your main point that we should all try to figure out what we each respond best to. I personally eat pretty clean the majority of the time, however I will say I regularly have some of my best workouts in the offseason when I eat two organic poptarts and some whey prior...just one of those things I noticed again and again...but hey to each their own.

The only two things I want to mention, are a) that the idea that studies done on people who aren't competitive natural bodybuilders have little or no relevance is something that should be really considered before being taken to heart. This is saying that somehow our physiology is different because we diet down to stage levels of bodyfat off and on and lift weights.
This has not proven to be the case in thousands of other studies that examine every other sport on the planet, sometimes with hundreds of people in the study and studying multiple sports simultaneously. Also, there have been some studies on bodybuilders throughout the years, very few, but some and they do tend to show that bodybuilders still have human physiology.
Also, this is ignoring the whole concept of statistical significance.

and b) I find it inconsistent that you brought up what Tommy, Brian, Doug and others are doing with their diets after we both said this:


You misinterpreted my comment about people who are freaks...it was not specific to Berto. My point was that there may be people who can eat sh*t and not have the same visible effects on their physique...but this doesn't justify it, because they could be implementing a more optimal method.


I did misinterpret that, my apologies. That's a great point. Someone's methods are not justified by their physique, a freak doing things sub optimally doesn't mean they are optimal, and someone with poor genetics could look unimpressive doing everything right. Let's just look at evidence, since we can find guys who look amazing following any number of nutritional strategies.
I mean...we could argue forever about why people look a certain way and we could both find people looking grainy and hard doing a number of strategies. I could say that Tommy looked the way he did because he was leaner than last time, evidenced by him weighing in lighter and started his diet 30lbs lighter. I could say that you have muscle maturity. I could say any number of things, but the point is we could both use these statements to try to prove our points....like you said about food source. We could endlessly debate who looks what way and why. Le's not.
BTW my comment about Tommy and you are just examples, not my actual opinion

So, in closing. It sounds like we both agree that everyone has to figure out what works best for them individually. I agree 100% and as always Kurt, I am inspired by you and I hope you continually improve and continue to add to the discussion in the sport. Thank you for taking the time to talk about this, I've certainly learned a lot more about the subject.

[SupaaJ]

All I can add is that there is nothing wrong with 800-1000 calorie meals spaced every 4-5 hours. Blood sugar will not be an issue, especially with balance in those meals. Not to mention calling 800-1000 calories a lot seems a bit off line for an off-season bb'er. I sniff that in my meals......as do tons of other trainees.

I doubt Layne has an issue with his blood sugar, and from what I understand, he eats 4 meals a day, even off-season, as do Berto, Eric, Paul....etc, etc.

FWIW, I'm not trying to get in a pissing match, just stating a few opinions I hold (aka they could be wrong). :)

[Animal76]

The only two things I want to mention, are a) that the idea that studies done on people who aren't competitive natural bodybuilders have little or no relevance is something that should be really considered before being taken to heart. This is saying that somehow our physiology is different because we diet down to stage levels of bodyfat off and on and lift weights.


Eric, I'm not saying studies have little or no relevance...i'm just saying that I don't completely rely on them, because there are too many unidentified variables within the subjects themselves.
I'm saying that everyone (not just bodybuilders) are different from one another in multiple ways...something very hard for any study to account for. This is why it's most important for individuals to learn themselves. It's important to take all relevant information into consideration. From there you have to decide whether or not it's applicable rather than just blindly accept the conclusion. In evaluating the effectiveness of a given variable, i'm more interested in the outcome on a group of people that have as much as common with me as possible. If the test group or individual is completely different, then I have no reason to assume i will respond in a similar fashion (not to say that it's not worth experimenting with), whether we are talking about, food, supplements, training style, etc. There is as much variance amongst bodybuilders as there is amongst humans.

[Animal76]

I don't think it's about right or wrong. I know what works best for me. I don't like eating large meals...i'll do so over the weekend when I don't have as much to do sometimes, and I experience greater fluctuations in my energy and blood sugar levels.

as far as meals and frequency I have found that 7 meals is optimal for me. I have done both more and less. I am against trying to force extra food down just for the sake of it (a mistake beginners often make in the quest to grow as quickly as possible). If I have a day where I am less active, then 6 meals might suffice, but on a typical weekday where i'm starting my day at 4:30am and i'm on my feet until 9/9:30pm, I absolutely perform and feel my best with 7 smaller meals. Depending on what one is used to and how they are wired, this could vary quite a bit. There are some guys who can grow like a weed on 3 meals a day. You have to consider that there a numerous factors influencing what might be optimal (as far as number of meals) for each individual.


All I can add is that there is nothing wrong with 800-1000 calorie meals spaced every 4-5 hours. Blood sugar will not be an issue, especially with balance in those meals. Not to mention calling 800-1000 calories a lot seems a bit off line for an off-season bb'er. I sniff that in my meals......as do tons of other trainees.

I doubt Layne has an issue with his blood sugar, and from what I understand, he eats 4 meals a day, even off-season, as do Berto, Eric, Paul....etc, etc.

FWIW, I'm not trying to get in a pissing match, just stating a few opinions I hold (aka they could be wrong). :)

[bwelch1985]

Eric, I'm not saying studies have little or no relevance...i'm just saying that I don't completely rely on them, because there are too many unidentified variables within the subjects themselves.
I'm saying that everyone (not just bodybuilders) are different from one another in multiple ways...something very hard for any study to account for. This is why it's most important for individuals to learn themselves. It's important to take all relevant information into consideration. From there you have to decide whether or not it's applicable rather than just blindly accept the conclusion. In evaluating the effectiveness of a given variable, i'm more interested in the outcome on a group of people that have as much as common with me as possible. If the test group or individual is completely different, then I have no reason to assume i will respond in a similar fashion (not to say that it's not worth experimenting with), whether we are talking about, food, supplements, training style, etc. There is as much variance amongst bodybuilders as there is amongst humans.

I agree whole heartedly w/ this post....which is basically the antithesis of your entire Optimization rant.

[JohnBrowne]

I agree whole heartedly w/ this post....which is basically the antithesis of your entire Optimization rant.

Exactly this.

[Quelly]

Eric, I'm not saying studies have little or no relevance...i'm just saying that I don't completely rely on them, because there are too many unidentified variables within the subjects themselves.
I'm saying that everyone (not just bodybuilders) are different from one another in multiple ways...something very hard for any study to account for. This is why it's most important for individuals to learn themselves. It's important to take all relevant information into consideration. From there you have to decide whether or not it's applicable rather than just blindly accept the conclusion. In evaluating the effectiveness of a given variable, i'm more interested in the outcome on a group of people that have as much as common with me as possible. If the test group or individual is completely different, then I have no reason to assume i will respond in a similar fashion (not to say that it's not worth experimenting with), whether we are talking about, food, supplements, training style, etc. There is as much variance amongst bodybuilders as there is amongst humans.
Gotcha, that clarifies what you were saying much better for me Kurt, and I agree 100%.

[chuckles_345]

I don't think it's about right or wrong. I know what works best for me. I don't like eating large meals...i'll do so over the weekend when I don't have as much to do sometimes, and I experience greater fluctuations in my energy and blood sugar levels.

as far as meals and frequency I have found that 7 meals is optimal for me. I have done both more and less. I am against trying to force extra food down just for the sake of it (a mistake beginners often make in the quest to grow as quickly as possible). If I have a day where I am less active, then 6 meals might suffice, but on a typical weekday where i'm starting my day at 4:30am and i'm on my feet until 9/9:30pm, I absolutely perform and feel my best with 7 smaller meals. Depending on what one is used to and how they are wired, this could vary quite a bit. There are some guys who can grow like a weed on 3 meals a day. You have to consider that there a numerous factors influencing what might be optimal (as far as number of meals) for each individual.


Even though I am currently working on my PhD and doing research, I agree with this. I think that to be successful in this sport, you need to have a combination of textbook knowledge and gym knowledge. If you only have 1 or the other, you are setting yourself up for disaster. I think this is especially an issue when dealing with trainers. IMO most trainers fall into 1 of 3 categories. 1. the guy who is huge and successful, but knows nothing about why he does what he does other than it works for him and people go to him because he is huge. This usually results in poor results for the client. 2. The guy who is super educated, but doesn't apply any of it and has no idea how to practically relate what he knows to the client. This also usually ends up in poor results for the client. 3. The category that makes the best trainer, but the category that the fewest number for trainers fall into. This is the guy who has the book smarts, but has also been around the game long enough to know how to apply things to the clients he is working with. In a sense this person has "gym smarts" and "book smarts."

I think that regardless of differences in opinion we all may have, learning as much as you can about your own body through trial and error and reading as much as you can to get ideas of things to try will, ultimately, make you a better bodybuilder in the long run.

That is just my 2 cents.

[Quelly]

Even though I am currently working on my PhD and doing research, I agree with this. I think that to be successful in this sport, you need to have a combination of textbook knowledge and gym knowledge. If you only have 1 or the other, you are setting yourself up for disaster. I think this is especially an issue when dealing with trainers. IMO most trainers fall into 1 of 3 categories. 1. the guy who is huge and successful, but knows nothing about why he does what he does other than it works for him and people go to him because he is huge. This usually results in poor results for the client. 2. The guy who is super educated, but doesn't apply any of it and has no idea how to practically relate what he knows to the client. This also usually ends up in poor results for the client. 3. The category that makes the best trainer, but the category that the fewest number for trainers fall into. This is the guy who has the book smarts, but has also been around the game long enough to know how to apply things to the clients he is working with. In a sense this person has "gym smarts" and "book smarts."

I think that regardless of differences in opinion we all may have, learning as much as you can about your own body through trial and error and reading as much as you can to get ideas of things to try will, ultimately, make you a better bodybuilder in the long run.

That is just my 2 cents.

Heck yes...that's why I love the opportunity to chat with folks like Tommy and Kurt, and I spend a good portion of my "free time" browsing the journals.

[Animal76]

Excellent post!


Even though I am currently working on my PhD and doing research, I agree with this. I think that to be successful in this sport, you need to have a combination of textbook knowledge and gym knowledge. If you only have 1 or the other, you are setting yourself up for disaster. I think this is especially an issue when dealing with trainers. IMO most trainers fall into 1 of 3 categories. 1. the guy who is huge and successful, but knows nothing about why he does what he does other than it works for him and people go to him because he is huge. This usually results in poor results for the client. 2. The guy who is super educated, but doesn't apply any of it and has no idea how to practically relate what he knows to the client. This also usually ends up in poor results for the client. 3. The category that makes the best trainer, but the category that the fewest number for trainers fall into. This is the guy who has the book smarts, but has also been around the game long enough to know how to apply things to the clients he is working with. In a sense this person has "gym smarts" and "book smarts."

I think that regardless of differences in opinion we all may have, learning as much as you can about your own body through trial and error and reading as much as you can to get ideas of things to try will, ultimately, make you a better bodybuilder in the long run.

That is just my 2 cents.

[Animal76]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/04/05/leg-press-14-plates-x-40-reps/

[Sporto1633]

Even though I am currently working on my PhD and doing research, I agree with this. I think that to be successful in this sport, you need to have a combination of textbook knowledge and gym knowledge. If you only have 1 or the other, you are setting yourself up for disaster. I think this is especially an issue when dealing with trainers. IMO most trainers fall into 1 of 3 categories. 1. the guy who is huge and successful, but knows nothing about why he does what he does other than it works for him and people go to him because he is huge. This usually results in poor results for the client. 2. The guy who is super educated, but doesn't apply any of it and has no idea how to practically relate what he knows to the client. This also usually ends up in poor results for the client. 3. The category that makes the best trainer, but the category that the fewest number for trainers fall into. This is the guy who has the book smarts, but has also been around the game long enough to know how to apply things to the clients he is working with. In a sense this person has "gym smarts" and "book smarts."

I think that regardless of differences in opinion we all may have, learning as much as you can about your own body through trial and error and reading as much as you can to get ideas of things to try will, ultimately, make you a better bodybuilder in the long run.

That is just my 2 cents.

TROOF! Reps!


http://teamanimal.net/2011/04/05/leg-press-14-plates-x-40-reps/

Is it weird that I had to catch my breath with you as I watched that? LOL Great set!

Sporto

[chuckles_345]

Heck yes...that's why I love the opportunity to chat with folks like Tommy and Kurt, and I spend a good portion of my "free time" browsing the journals.


TROOF! Reps!


Sporto


Excellent post!


Thanks guys. It means a lot coming from people who I respect and look up to in this sport.

Kurt, that leg press video is nuts! You made 14 plates look like me doing 6-8 plates....more motivation for my next leg day.

[Mr_Aestheticz]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/04/05/leg-press-14-plates-x-40-reps/

My heart hurts from watching this lol!!!

[AustrianOakJr]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/04/05/leg-press-14-plates-x-40-reps/

I did that one-legged last thursday.









.......then, I woke up. ;)

Holey smokes man....that is just insane. If I could get 14 plates for half of those reps I would be impressed with myself. Keep up the good work......cant wait to see you on stage again!

[Animal76]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/04/08/friday-4811-pr-on-trap-bar-deadlifts-545-lbs-x-14-reps/

[Frankdaddy]

THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL....more weight and reps than the last PR video, correct? Thats just crazy lol

[FATHER FLEX]

Kurt you are a SICK SICK MAN!

[Animal76]

video from friday's workout:
http://teamanimal.net/2011/05/20/trap-bar-deadlifts-565-lbs-x-10-reps/

i've been logging my workouts on my blog
http://teamanimal.net/

[Animal76]

If there are any animal lovers on here, perhaps you're interested in helping us help Macy
http://teamanimal.net/2011/07/02/help-us-help-macy/

[Animal76]

this was filmed back in April
https://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/animal-instincts-introducing-kurt-weidner.html

http://teamanimal.net/category/videos/

[tadolfi]

All good stuff Kurt - glad to have you over there to help the community.
Respect,
Troy

[dj_eu]

Great videos Kurt, really like how you break your approach to diet and training into a simple to understand and to follow messages. Thanks for the tip on using hummus for the tuna wraps, did not think of that one, but will do!

Do you still do cardio in the offseason? If so, is it after meal 1, or pre/post workout? Also, if a person has a sedentary job but may occasionally need a small meal to get the blood sugar levels back up late in the day during the offseason (kind of like your granola bar), would it be better to use some sort of healthy fat source, or would granola bar be Ok for him (me) also?

[Animal76]

Great videos Kurt, really like how you break your approach to diet and training into a simple to understand and to follow messages. Thanks for the tip on using hummus for the tuna wraps, did not think of that one, but will do!

Do you still do cardio in the offseason? If so, is it after meal 1, or pre/post workout? Also, if a person has a sedentary job but may occasionally need a small meal to get the blood sugar levels back up late in the day during the offseason (kind of like your granola bar), would it be better to use some sort of healthy fat source, or would granola bar be Ok for him (me) also?

Eugene,
Here is the segment where I discussed cardio:
http://teamanimal.net/2011/07/12/muscle-strength-video-series-cardio/

I do my cardio sometime after my first of second meal, depending on when I have a free hour.

If your job is sedentary, I would avoid eating many extra carbs aside from the 3 crucial times (morning, pre and post workout)
I snack with moderate carbs with a balance of fat and fiber such as Mary's Gone Crackers would be ideal
http://www.marysgonecrackers.com/crackers

i think you'd probably be better off including healthy fats with all your meals while limiting carbs more

[Animal76]

I've been using the new formula of xtend for a week now and I can honestly say that I think the added electrolytes make a difference...especially with my high training volume. I'm enjoying the reformulated flavors as well.

[Animal76]

For those interested, i've been keeping my blog updated: www.teamanimal.net

here are a sample of recent recent posts:
http://teamanimal.net/2011/07/24/grass-fed-beef/

http://teamanimal.net/2011/07/23/benefits-of-sweet-potatoes/

http://teamanimal.net/2011/07/20/benefits-of-broccoli/

http://teamanimal.net/category/articles-for-natural-bodbuilding-and-fitness/

[Animal76]

http://teamanimal.net/2011/08/10/team-animal-consultation/

[Animal76]

Recent Blog Posts:

Hyaluronic Acid
http://teamanimal.net/2011/08/13/hyaluronic-acid/

Flax Oil and Flaxseed Meal
http://teamanimal.net/2011/08/14/benefits-of-flaxseed-oil-and-flaxseed-meal/

Benefits of Inversion
http://teamanimal.net/2011/08/14/benefits-of-inversion/

My workouts
http://teamanimal.net/category/training/

my girlfriend's healthy meatloaf
http://teamanimal.net/2011/08/09/jennifers-healthy-meatloaf/

general nutrition
http://teamanimal.net/2011/08/08/basic-nutrition/

[Animal76]

Abdominal/Core Training
http://teamanimal.net/2011/08/19/abdominalcore-training-videos/

[Animal76]

http://teamanimal.net/category/articles-for-natural-bodbuilding-and-fitness/

[Animal76]

It's been quite awhile since i've posted anything on here, but I figured i'd provde an update. I'm now approaching the end of week 25 of contest prep for this season. The first 2 of my 3 shows for this year have already passed and my last show of the season will be WNBF Worlds three weeks from Saturday.

Sept 17th I competed in the WNBF Universe. Here's my blog post with the write-up on that show:
http://teamanimal.net/2011/09/18/wnbf-pro-universe-write-up/

pictures and videos from the show can be seen on my FB page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kurt-Weidner-WNBF-Pro-Natural-Bodybuilder/114419755271714

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.236775613036127.58655.114419755271714&type=3

October 8th I competed in the WNBF Mid-America:
pictures
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.245343955512626.61193.114419755271714&type=3

blog post
http://teamanimal.net/2011/10/09/congrats-to-vaughan-twigger-2011-wnbf-pro-mid-america-champ/

a few pics from my first 2 shows:
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x240/kweidner/AbsThighMidAmerica.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x240/kweidner/DSC00514.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x240/kweidner/DSC00509.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x240/kweidner/DSC00492.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x240/kweidner/CrabMostMuscular.jpg


Posedown from WNBF Universe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNzMQu3utvs&feature=related

Posing Routine from the WNBF Mid-America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbMR-1eBgwI&feature=related

[Frankdaddy]

Kurt I I just dont even....You are a freak ANIMAL :D In all honestly, I dont think ive ever been as baffled as I have with the physique you have brought at those shows. Nobody had the muscle or conditioning and peaking it just right to look as hard as nails as you did in those pics, and it's very clear. GREAT work bro!!!

[Quelly]

Totally agree with Frank above, outsanding physique and peak and conditioning and muscularity OF COURSE

but what is really cool is how you and Vaughn were able to share back to back competitions like that and do so well! put a smile on my face!

[Animal76]

Thanks Man! I have been pleased with what I was able to bring to the stage so far this year. I feel like the 2 years of hard work since Worlds of '09 paid off. I have a little over 3 weeks to ensure a strong finish to my season!


Kurt I I just dont even....You are a freak ANIMAL :D In all honestly, I dont think ive ever been as baffled as I have with the physique you have brought at those shows. Nobody had the muscle or conditioning and peaking it just right to look as hard as nails as you did in those pics, and it's very clear. GREAT work bro!!!

[fltallpaul]

I have been following on FB and your updates but its great to see you post here as well. Amazing stuff going on between you and Vaughn. I had not heard of him and when i saw some of his training videos after his win i realized he trains with you. First Whitacre and now Twigger...you got some magic in that water. Makes me want to move to Blacksburg just to train with you for a few years and get a title or two. Good luck at World's...

[Animal76]

Thanks Paul! Vaughan is definitely having a break out year. I'm really happy for him...he has ridiculous potential and a great work ethic...he's also extremely humble. Vaughan has been a great workout partner and i've watched him make some incredible progress over the last several years...it's been fun watching him win at the pro level as a result


I have been following on FB and your updates but its great to see you post here as well. Amazing stuff going on between you and Vaughn. I had not heard of him and when i saw some of his training videos after his win i realized he trains with you. First Whitacre and now Twigger...you got some magic in that water. Makes me want to move to Blacksburg just to train with you for a few years and get a title or two. Good luck at World's...

[Animal76]

Transition from Contest Prep to off-season
http://teamanimal.net/2011/10/31/transition-from-contest-prep-to-off-season/

[Webber91]

Awesome read, Kurt! How do you go about adjusting your calories in the first few weeks after your show? Do you gradually increase carbs+fats weekly or generally return to a higher amount then stick with it for a while?

The reason I ask is that I'm currently 4 weeks after my last show, been adding about 20g of carbs and 5g of fat each week and nearly halved my training volume, yet still the same weight I was on stage and in condition. Just trying to figure out what the hell is going on haha

[Animal76]

Thanks!
i'm adding enough carbs and fat to avoid feeling hungry...you don't want to deprive yourself to the point where you're ready to eat everything...that can be worse. I will be taking in around 300g carbs a day, which is the upper end (maybe a little more) of what I used on refeed days during the end of my prep...so my body can handle that amount. I'm also adding 5-10g fat. I will assess how my body does in the first week or two, while watching the scale, calipers and the mirror. As I feel my body is acclimating to the added calories, I will add small amounts as needed.

Part of what I do the first week is to reintroduce foods that were removed during prep. There are healthy food choices like greek yogurt and blueberries I took out, because I started limited my carbs...they'll be added back in the first week.
Over the first couple of weeks, I want to put more fruit back in (I love grapefruit and it's in season during the winter). All meals (except the last meal before bed) will have some carbs. I also will be allocating a little more fat to some meals, because the amount I was adding during last months of prep was small (my total fat intake per day was down to 40-43g per day

I think your plan of adding 20g carbs and 5g fat per week is a great approach. Good way to slowly rebuild your metabolism after a show...If your weight isn't changing much and you're holding contest condition, then you can afford to be a little more aggressive. I'd throw in a couple of high calorie refeed days (if you're not already) mid-week and weekend


Awesome read, Kurt! How do you go about adjusting your calories in the first few weeks after your show? Do you gradually increase carbs+fats weekly or generally return to a higher amount then stick with it for a while?

The reason I ask is that I'm currently 4 weeks after my last show, been adding about 20g of carbs and 5g of fat each week and nearly halved my training volume, yet still the same weight I was on stage and in condition. Just trying to figure out what the hell is going on haha

[Webber91]

Thanks!
i'm adding enough carbs and fat to avoid feeling hungry...you don't want to deprive yourself to the point where you're ready to eat everything...that can be worse. I will be taking in around 300g carbs a day, which is the upper end (maybe a little more) of what I used on refeed days during the end of my prep...so my body can handle that amount. I'm also adding 5-10g fat. I will assess how my body does in the first week or two, while watching the scale, calipers and the mirror. As I feel my body is acclimating to the added calories, I will add small amounts as needed.

Part of what I do the first week is to reintroduce foods that were removed during prep. There are healthy food choices like greek yogurt and blueberries I took out, because I started limited my carbs...they'll be added back in the first week.
Over the first couple of weeks, I want to put more fruit back in (I love grapefruit and it's in season during the winter). All meals (except the last meal before bed) will have some carbs. I also will be allocating a little more fat to some meals, because the amount I was adding during last months of prep was small (my total fat intake per day was down to 40-43g per day

I think your plan of adding 20g carbs and 5g fat per week is a great approach. Good way to slowly rebuild your metabolism after a show...If your weight isn't changing much and you're holding contest condition, then you can afford to be a little more aggressive. I'd throw in a couple of high calorie refeed days (if you're not already) mid-week and weekend

Thanks for the response mate! That's originally what I have done too, added back a heap of healthy nutrient dense foods like yoghurt, berries, various fruits, veggies, herbs and spices etc which were all limited when my calories got low. My initial goal was more to "get healthy" again per se, as I feel that later on during prep we all get very deficient in vitamins and minerals. I feel you on the low fat thing too, I've started to slowly bring mine back up from real low levels (~30-35g per day) hoping it will restore a few things, and mainly help with my sleep which has been lacking quite a bit ever since finishing dieting.

I'll definitely try one or two more aggressive refeed days in the coming weeks, thanks for the suggestion. I've been doing everything pretty consistently, so a couple of high days might help move things along.

[Animal76]

Day 1
http://teamanimal.net/2011/11/14/day-1-off-season/

Day 2
http://teamanimal.net/2011/11/16/1115-day-2-off-season/

Day 3
http://teamanimal.net/2011/11/16/day-3-off-season/

Day 4
http://teamanimal.net/2011/11/17/thu...-4-off-season/

Pictures from WNBF Pro Worlds:
middleweights
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kurt-W...5271714&type=1
heavyweights
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...5271714&type=1

Interview w/ Brian Whitacre:
http://teamanimal.net/2011/11/18/fea...rian-whitacre/

I will be doing a full-up write up on Worlds and the 2011 contest season in review...still waiting on feedback from judges

[fltallpaul]

Thanks for the updates Kurt, congrats on getting top 3 at World's. I know your goal is to be the best and you are making strides in that direction. I love the interview with Brian as well, just a class act and a great role model. I will be getting on stage again next year and following how dedicated you guys are it tells me where I need to be if I want to be successful.

[The Solution]

Thanks for the updates Kurt, congrats on getting top 3 at World's. I know your goal is to be the best and you are making strides in that direction. I love the interview with Brian as well, just a class act and a great role model. I will be getting on stage again next year and following how dedicated you guys are it tells me where I need to be if I want to be successful.
Kurt, Very proud of your efforts and placing top 3 at worlds is a huge task. We all know your focus and to be the best damn bodybuilder there is and that is as hard as it comes. Thanks for the pictures I wish I could of been there to support you this year with Rob. Keep up the great work and keep pushing yourself to a bigger and better person. I love the articles in NBB Magazine.