I Threw Out All My Supplements

[NaturalMsO]

After years of bodybuilding and taking supplements, I decided to do an experiment and go off everything (protein powder and daily vitamins excluded). And guess what? I've been supplement-less for about two years now, and I'm making some of the best gains in my entire bodybuilding career. So, it makes me ask myself: Are most of the supplements on the market today just a crock of BS? Probably. My gains never faltered (and even improved!) when I went off everything. Ah, the mass market of advertising propaganda. Go figure.

Have any of you done this and had similar results?

Natural Ms. Olympia

[CrazyTall]

Actually yes I have, and I have had similar results to you.
I focus more on my training and nutrition when I dont have to worry about taking this and that supp at certain times.

[NaturalMsO]

It's good to know that not everyone is still wrapped up in the supplement scam of things! :)

Natural Ms. Olympia

[NaturalMsO]

CrazyTall:

Hey, I just noticed that you live in Florida part time. In which part of Florida are you?

Natural Ms. Olympia

[sickwitit]

nice me too i don't use any well except a multi but for the other crap they have HELL NO. nice post once again natural

[CrazyTall]

CrazyTall:

Hey, I just noticed that you live in Florida part time. In which part of Florida are you?

Natural Ms. Olympia
Clearwater. I'm down here for the winter months.

[Diab0lic]

I only supplement whey, multi and efa's. I do take creatine on occasions, but I dont bother with 90% of the crap out there

[sickwitit]

good thinking it's all junk

unless you take in a ton of protein then it's a must to have the whey

[LayneStaley]

I'm slowly starting to realise it to (I know it, but you know how stupid we all tend to be sometimes) since adding HIIT cardio, I've had better results than the ECA stack and long-paced cardio alone. I'm going to throw out my supplements too. and I feel awesome about it.

[toughnuts]

Yeah suppliments suck. They dont help at all!

[A-man]

Agreed! whey and multi and that's it...(the whey must also be artifical sweetener and colouring free)

[dwasson85]

I completely agree. Being a college student and working out mostly in a college gym, a lot of my friends accused me of losing my mind when I told them I was giving everything up.

I found that with my limited food abilities (aka dorm life) I couldn't get enough protein, so I went back on the shakes. Other than that, I don't miss the stuff I was on (creatine, l-glutamine.) My gains actually went up because I felt like I had something to prove again. It was like I was just starting again.

After doing this, I don't plan on staying this way forever... just until I get my diet perfect. I think it'll be worth the time and money to go back on that stuff once my diet is the best it can be.

[Pooh Bear]

This is by far the most money saving, best advice, intelligent, honest, thread on the forums.

Should be the Sticky of All Stickys!

[chewwy]

instead of throwing out all your supplements, can yous end them to me instead?:)

[LayneStaley]

instead of throwing out all your supplements, can yous end them to me instead?:)


You missed the point, young grasshopper... ahhh you have much to learn.

[jake24]

good thinking it's all junk

unless you take in a ton of protein then it's a must to have the whey yep your absolutly right... supplements are mostly propaganda with there multi- million dollar advertisings. but you have to have protein though.

[NaturalMsO]

Wow. It's nice to see that so many of you have done the same thing and have realized that supplements (with very few exceptions) are nothing more than a mass money-making scam. If I had only realized this sooner, I'd be a lot richer. *sigh* Ah well.

Natural Ms. Olympia

[Pioneer]

well my problem is im a hard gainer. i have tried to eat a lot and eat healthy but nothing work. so for some of us some extra help is needed.

and i think protein powder is a supplement, so technically (i think) you are still on supplements.

[NaturalMsO]

Pioneer: I said "excluding protein powder and daily vitamins." Of course, they're supplements. That's why I said "excluding," to indicate that those are the only supplements I take.

Some bodybuilders would disagree with you on your "hard gainer" theory. Several experienced bodybuilders will tell you that there is no such thing as a "hard gainer," it's just an excuse that people use because they don't know how to eat/train/rest properly. Now, don't get mad at me. Those aren't my words. I'm just the messenger. ;)

Natural Ms. Olympia

[Bammy]

Some bodybuilders would disagree with you on your "hard gainer" theory. Several experienced bodybuilders will tell you that there is no such thing as a "hard gainer," it's just an excuse that people use because they don't know how to eat/train/rest properly.

Anyone who says that is pretty ignorant. Just look at the difference between ectomorphs and mesomophs and tell me they both can put on muscle at the same rate.

[sickwitit]

supplements (excluding multis) suck a fat one even protien supplements, it's boils down to calories no matter how you put it. Take in like 80 grams of protein a day and fill in th rest with carbs you will have more energy and more chocices and freedon of what to eat try it it works.

[NaturalMsO]

Bammy:

Of course endomorphs, ectomorphs and mesomorphs can't gain muscle at the same rate. Those are merely different body types. Being an ectomorph means that you have an ectomorphic body type, not that you're a "hard gainer."

Natural Ms. Olympia

[Pioneer]

sorry about that i though by the "excluding" part you meant that they dont count as supplements.

and also i think if i put you in my shoes for a day you would think differently. my brother has the same problem as i. my entire family is small.

[toughnuts]

sheesh, I was being sarcastic. I do think that suppliments have their place in a bodybuilding regime. For example, Creatine, Whey Protein, Multi-vitamin, Flax Seeds/Oil are all very good. The make it or brake it factor is dieting. Most people dont know this, and they think that suppliments will magically help them without changing their diets. If you are one of these people, than yes suppliments suck, but if you are dedicated and intelligent about what you are doing suppliments do have their place.

Also Sickwitit, you should know that only taking in 80 grams of protein a day and filling up the rest of your diet with carbs is pretty stupid. Thats not even 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Not trying to bash on ya, but this is just the case.

[Pooh Bear]

Maybe Sickwit is 5 foot, 90 pounds?

[Bammy]

Bammy:

Of course endomorphs, ectomorphs and mesomorphs can't gain muscle at the same rate. Those are merely different body types. Being an ectomorph means that you have an ectomorphic body type, not that you're a "hard gainer."

Natural Ms. Olympia

I just hope you realize that some people certainly have a harder time gaining muscle regardless of training/diet/rest. I live, eat, and breath training and nutrition, and struggle for every pound, while others I know train a couple times, not knowing what they are doing, eat a McDonalds hamburger and a coke as their pre workout meal, and blow up. If you are a natural Ms. Olympia, you might have had an easier time gaining muscle than others, but please don't deny that it is more trying for some.

[sprinto]

wow Ms.O you really do like shaking things up don't you. First she takes on the myth of the bulk/cut next on her hit list supplememnts, watch out you could be next.

[Aerius]

After years of bodybuilding and taking supplements, I decided to do an experiment and go off everything (protein powder and daily vitamins excluded). And guess what? I've been supplement-less for about two years now, and I'm making some of the best gains in my entire bodybuilding career. So, it makes me ask myself: Are most of the supplements on the market today just a crock of BS? Probably. My gains never faltered (and even improved!) when I went off everything. Ah, the mass market of advertising propaganda. Go figure.

Have any of you done this and had similar results?

Natural Ms. Olympia


Just one question. Did you just go off them, or did you shake your diet and/or workout? Cause there is a huge diference, and suplements only help if your nutrition and training is good....

[NaturalMsO]

I'm posting my replies to all of you in the same post, so scroll down until you see your name (saves room and time this way). ...

Bammy: Sure, I realize that gaining muscle is more difficult for some people than it is for others. That's a given.

Sprinto: Yeah, that's me, a mover and a shaker. ;)

Aerius: I'd like to think that my training and diet is constantly improving, as are my gains. Without supplements.

Good luck to you all, and happy New year!

Natural Ms. Olympia

[FreeBirdbulker]

Bammy:

Of course endomorphs, ectomorphs and mesomorphs can't gain muscle at the same rate. Those are merely different body types. Being an ectomorph means that you have an ectomorphic body type, not that you're a "hard gainer."

Natural Ms. Olympia

AMEN!!!!!!

sometimes I think people use it as a crutch, Oh Im a ecto so I cant gain much. Yea right!

[CrazyTall]

Im an ecto. 6'4" at 135 lbs! in 2000.
When I started eating right and working out regularly, i jumped up to 200 lbs in under 2 years. ALL MUSCLE! ( except a pinch below my naval :o) Actually it was from 2000- 2003, but you get my picture :D

[NaturalMsO]

A-ha! An ectomorph speaks out! Well, there ya go! And congrats to YOU, CrazyTall. Well done, Mr. Ecto. ;)

Natural Ms. Olympia

[ATrainer]

I just hope you realize that some people certainly have a harder time gaining muscle regardless of training/diet/rest. I live, eat, and breath training and nutrition, and struggle for every pound, while others I know train a couple times, not knowing what they are doing, eat a McDonalds hamburger and a coke as their pre workout meal, and blow up. If you are a natural Ms. Olympia, you might have had an easier time gaining muscle than others, but please don't deny that it is more trying for some.

You know me well enough, Bammy. I don't buy into the hardgainer mentality either. While I agree that it is easier for some than others, if you are training effectively enough, the gains come very regularly. I've trained ecto's, meso's, and endo's, and actually everyone is a mix of all three. You can actually map where you fit in the triangle. But I've helped all of them gain between 12-15 lbs in 10 weeks. All with the EXACT same program. How is that possible given the current opinion of "facts?" You know I buck tradition hard, and I have good reason. I've seen different, and proved it out.

As for chucking supplements, I've never needed 'em, and never recommended any besides a multi. Yes, creatine is added fuel, but do you really need it? Most people don't, and those that could benefit take too much. ECA. It jacks the metabolism artificially, but a good training program does it even better. Protein supplements? My gallon of skim milk covers all the bases, and my chocolate milk tastes way better than my son's nasty protein drink with the same amount of protein.

Supplements are a racket. Period.

[Duff62269]

Are you even making better gains without prohormones like m1t. If you are throwing your prohormones out hand them to me :) cus im stocking up.

[_Derek_]

This is really a great thread...a lot of info, and theres debates! this is what I liek about it..everyone has there say no fighting just clean debates...I been on whey for about a year now and been seeing good results...Creatine...i go on for 1 month and off for 2 weeks and then back on for 1 month.. I know all the science about thease 2...but to be honest creatine now is doing nothing...after my last cycle i am off creatine for a while and ill see how it goes

[gildude86]

Its nice to knw a lot of people arent buying all that propaganda ****. I myself stopped using all those supplements but whey and glutamine. Im not sure though.. i still feel like glutamine is also.. just a bunch of crap. But a lot of people say its essential.. helps anti catabolic.. blah blah.. wat do u guys think? is it really necessary.. or should i throw it out as well and save my money

[kwyckemynd00]

After years of bodybuilding and taking supplements, I decided to do an experiment and go off everything (protein powder and daily vitamins excluded). And guess what? I've been supplement-less for about two years now, and I'm making some of the best gains in my entire bodybuilding career. So, it makes me ask myself: Are most of the supplements on the market today just a crock of BS? Probably. My gains never faltered (and even improved!) when I went off everything. Ah, the mass market of advertising propaganda. Go figure.

Have any of you done this and had similar results?

Natural Ms. Olympia
Depends on which supplements you're talking about....some are worthless others are not.

I'm sure you made the best gains ever b/c you've matured as a bodybuilder and have made progress on diet, routine, etc.

But, good job anyway :D

[magnus wsm]

After years of bodybuilding and taking supplements, I decided to do an experiment and go off everything (protein powder and daily vitamins excluded). And guess what? I've been supplement-less for about two years now, and I'm making some of the best gains in my entire bodybuilding career. So, it makes me ask myself: Are most of the supplements on the market today just a crock of BS? Probably. My gains never faltered (and even improved!) when I went off everything. Ah, the mass market of advertising propaganda. Go figure.

Have any of you done this and had similar results?

Natural Ms. Olympia but once you have built muscle mass protein and lifting will retain it. yes liquid creatine and methoxy and myostatin blockers are scams. but creatine is a clinical proven supplement. you know steeve reeves did not have no2 and ph,s but his physique was great.

[hulkman]

i stopped taking everything when i went in the navey , i gt sick from the shots and dropped 20 pounds of muscle ad you could even see the bones in mmy back threw my white t-shirt but i got a lot stronger i even had a really powerful grip and i stopped working out for 2 months i was the strongest i had ever been but you wouldnt know it from looking at me , i think it was because of all the foods i ate. man that food at boot camp sure was good

[F W Nietszche]

I take protein (just normal whey), a good multi (anything with good amounts of B vitamins) and creatine sometimes... don't believe that **** people tell you

[AnabolicMind]

I'm posting my replies to all of you in the same post, so scroll down until you see your name (saves room and time this way). ...

Aerius: I'd like to think that my training and diet is constantly improving, as are my gains. Without supplements.

Good luck to you all, and happy New year!

Natural Ms. Olympia

You do know that means that your experience isnt valid? If you eat 3000 cals and of it 1000 come from suplements, and you change it to 3000 from food, it is obvious that food will give you better gains. But, you used them wrong. Cause they only SUPLEMENT (Hence the name) your nutrition.

[NaturalMsO]

AnabolicMind:

No, I didn't do anything wrong. In fact, I did everything correctly. And that's why my results have been kick a--. :D

Natural Ms. Olympia

[MuscleCyko]

Whey is essiential def. Multi is debatable. If you are getting good meals, you are getting most of you vitamins. However creatine i dont;' know

I trained without creatine, and I reached muscle failure quicker. Now that i am taking a ester creatine, (which doesn't needed to be loaded or taken on non training days) i feel i can work out forever.

but before people start packing on supplements, its essential to have the basics:

1) proper sleep
2) proper training
3) propper nutrition all day long, especially
a) pre work out
b) post work out

I also like a caffeine supplement. Some days after a long work day, i dont'; don't have the energy to lift hard. about 200mg of caffeine really helps me. Sometimes i do drink tea or black coffee before lifting, but other times while in a rush, a quick caffeine pill is convinent.

so i would consider my self supplement free besides. whey, ester creatine, caffeine and BCAA's---but that is not really supplement free though.

I do agree MS NAT O. There are alot of people being taken by the advertising industry, look at cell tech and nitro tech for example. every teenager on the football team in america has tried this junk--when they didnt' have the basics (from above) down first.

Advise:
Get your basics DOWN. that means get your DAILY cycle down, KNOW WHAT AND WHEN TO EAT WHAT. KNOW HOW TO TRAIN, AND GET AT LEAT 8 HRS SLEEP.

after you are doing this for a while, judge your gains. Maybe one or two supplements can help you do your BASICS better. for me caffeine and creatine help. Whey and BCAA wrap up the supplements i trust.

PEACE, how about a rep point or at least some loving

[drewkowsky]

[QUOTE=ATrainer]You know me well enough, Bammy. I don't buy into the hardgainer mentality either. While I agree that it is easier for some than others, if you are training effectively enough, the gains come very regularly. I've trained ecto's, meso's, and endo's, and actually everyone is a mix of all three. You can actually map where you fit in the triangle. But [QUOTE]
how does one do this, because I am not sure what I am

[Gold]

Well im sure if you eat properly there is no reason to use supplements, since there is no magic in them (since its not like anabolics).

The body needs an amount of proteines pr day to do its work (maintaince and hypertropy) - if you eat more than this amount it wont give you any additonal results.

So with that in mind its not a stupid thing to ease down the trust in supplements.

BUT i will say, during diet's it can be quite a hazzle to get proteine through you food, where supplements come in handy - and if you dont have a strict control of your diet, its an easy way to fill the machine up.

And if your dieting sucks and you dont get the proteines needed, then you wont get the results - the magic doesnt lie in supplements, but in the proteines.

anyway, i hear any word you say Ms O - and i think its a good thing to get this perspective into play .

[irongryph76]

I use to be real big on supplements (I even had a Gold Card at GNC), but now I only take whey, vitamins, and minerals. I do creatine only on training days. I concentrate most of my efforts on keeping my nutrition as clean as possible and watching the calories. Five slices of turkey breast from a Oscar Myer family pack contains 30 grams of protein and only 125 calories. A protein shake w/ water has more calories and in some cases less protein.

[sickwitit]

i hear ya who wouldnt rather eat real food. Taking supplements blows, i would just buy them if you like then flush them down the toilet it would just save your time and effort.

[paingame]

After years of bodybuilding and taking supplements, I decided to do an experiment and go off everything (protein powder and daily vitamins excluded). And guess what? I've been supplement-less for about two years now, and I'm making some of the best gains in my entire bodybuilding career. So, it makes me ask myself: Are most of the supplements on the market today just a crock of BS? Probably. My gains never faltered (and even improved!) when I went off everything. Ah, the mass market of advertising propaganda. Go figure.

Have any of you done this and had similar results?

Natural Ms. Olympia
ah good to hear ive never used anything besides whey and vitamins because i just thought all the rest isn't really needed.

[sickwitit]

damn right

[SOhp101]

I've been trying out L-Glutamine and Creatine (and of course whey protein/multi), and I don't think the glutamine and creatine are doing me much good. When I went off them for awhile, I felt like I was still growing the same amount as before. The only thing that I notice differently with creatine is that I tend to drink a lot more water and my muscles feel fuller, but I definitely don't feel stronger.

I think this is a major problem with most bodybuilders. They think that they can just eat whatever and take supplements and expect great results. Few people realize that it's the diet that is supposed to be the foundation of your bodybuilding and the supplements are only supposed to do exactly that--supplement.

I definitely have to take whey protein though because I don't think I can eat that many chicken breasts to get all the protein I'm supposed to get each day :D.

[TENACIOUS]

A perspective from a 40 year old. When your daily life of raising kids, working 50 hours a week of shift work (different shift every day), commuting, maintaining a house and yard the sups come in handy.

Sups that relieve DOMS I.E Genetec Ener-G (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/gene/ener.html) are essential to me. Caffeine gives me that extra energy to carry my self to the gym. Creatine gives me extra vigor to lift hard and long (no more that 50 minutes). Whey and several other proteins are needed when you cannot get an extra meal in you because you’re on the road headed for the gym.

When you dealing with a 40 year old body which has undergone double knee surgery, back surgery to name just three of them I would recommend taking Glucosamine and Msm which had helped me tremendously. Polycosonal for the person who has genetically high cholesterol.

Supps are great………………

[NaturalMsO]

Sure, Tenacious, I suppose in your case, supplements would help.

Natural Ms. Olympia

[Duff62269]

No way im going without my prohormones, I just bought like a 3 year supply of methyl dht.

[sickwitit]

**** prohormones there a waste too

[Duff62269]

Not the good ones like m1t and methyl dht. Theyll soar your body to new levels you never thought posssible.

[CrazyTall]

Not the good ones like m1t and methyl dht. Theyll soar your body to new levels you never thought posssible.
I agree with you on the M1T and M-DHT. Esp the DHT, very good compound, but now, I'd only use them when I cant get any farther from natural bb'ing.

[Duff62269]

Will the DHT cause muscle gains or does it only give you energy?

[kwyckemynd00]

Will the DHT cause muscle gains or does it only give you energy?
dht will cause gains, it's very anabolic. however, if you're susceptible to male pattern baldness (MPB), id' recommend having something on hand for your hair :D

[NaturalMsO]

Hmmm, let's see... Making some gains, then losing some when you cycle off the stuff, plus losing your hair. So basically, you take one step forward, one step back. Only now you're bald. Yeah, that sounds like something I SO want to try. LOL

Natural Ms. Olympia

[CrazyTall]

dht will cause gains, it's very anabolic. however, if you're susceptible to male pattern baldness (MPB), id' recommend having something on hand for your hair :D
How about a Bic razor? :D

[Duff62269]

Luckily im not prone to male pattern baldness so I have no problems taking it, and I've never lost my gains post cycle, and in fact keep gaining.

[TENACIOUS]

Food by far is the best Sup!!! Sometimes that's my problem I love food to much LOL.....explains the extra Bf. Sups can have their place in our daily lives as long as you have every thing else in check. If you lie on the couch sucking back beers eating potato chips and go to the gym every once in a while than I would advise you not to use anything until you have your life in order.

[hotshot5820]

i would never give up my beverly ultra 40 liver tabs or mass amino's with each meal.

[NaturalMsO]

Duff:

I would bet that you'd keep on gaining without the supplements, too. (Given that you do everything properly, of course.)

Natural Ms. Olympia

[NaturalMsO]

Hotshot:

You sound like a "Planet Muscle" ad. LOL

Natural Ms. Olympia

[tryfuhl]

Not knocking your decision at all, but there are things I choose to take for health reasons which may not be necessary for gains in the gym, but I'd still want to take.

These include fish oil, milk thistle (not all of the time), etc.. Definitely keep some CLA and chromium around when cutting as well, though I guess those would be considered helpful for goals.

[armz_ha]

I threw out all the un-necessary vitamins and minerals like vitamin c, b,e, etc. Figured I'm spending more than I need to...


I still take alot of supps but I find em useful. NO2, creatine, whey, calcium, green tea, caffeine, cla, and zma are always on my list... :)

[DSK]

I noticed that from some of the places where I buy my supplements from, there are so many that one could use. One supplement focuses on one aspect, whilst another focuses on another and so on. I find that the wording is carefully considered to explain all the ins and outs of the supplements in order to make people 'feel' that they must have it. There are also new supplements being created all the time, so there is always something new to get the market hyped up about.

I just use what I need, which is a decent protein powder and multi-vitamin tablets. I also use creatine from time to time.

[dark_vapor]

I was spending 300 a month on protien and other suppliments and decided to try going without. SO far so good its been almost a year without suppliments. I cant say I have had any great gains other than my wallet not being empty but essentially no difference as long as you eat properly. As for stats:
age 38
male
5'6" 175 lbs
Bench 315
squat 405
straight bar curl 135 6 reps
dips 8 reps with 130 lbs strapped to me
255 lb pull downs for 6 - 8 reps

dark_vapor

[badboyslayer]

Great thread.

I only use whey and a multivitamin

[Fridrik]

supplements weren't needed when egyptians built the pyramids, and they aren't needed now... but... I do use post workout drink... and meal replacement... and creatine... and multi vitamins.... and c vitamin... and multiminerals... and dextro...

DAMN IT!

[kabo]

Generalizing that no supplements work (as is being done by some posters in this thread) is about as equally fallacious as generalizing that every supplement works and that every CellTech advertisement is true. I also think it depends on your definition of supplements - as we all know, what one considers "natural" varies from one person to another.

To me, supplements can be whey protein, ECY, ZMA, and multivitamins. Those are the only supplements that I use, and I find all of them useful. Maybe not essential, but certainly useful.

[Pioneer]

I threw out all the un-necessary vitamins and minerals like vitamin c, b,e, etc. Figured I'm spending more than I need to...


I still take alot of supps but I find em useful. NO2, creatine, whey, calcium, green tea, caffeine, cla, and zma are always on my list... :)

you get rid of the vitamins your body needs but you decide to keep NO2 and caffeine. thats just not right.

and are you on a cutting phase or a bulking phase because some of those supps are for bulking and some are for cutting.

[NaturalMsO]

I see lots of talk (here and elsewhere) about NO2 supplements. See, now that just plain scares me. Now, wait a minute before you start yelling. I'm not bashing anyone for using it, at all. I'm just saying that I've done research and read about it, and it's scary what it does. Artificially dilating blood vessels like that ... ah dunno ... just doesn't seem healthy. Personally, I wouldn't touch the stuff.

Natural Ms. Olympia

[dohhhhh6]

I find this post extremely ignorant.

How can you say supplements are so bad when you're still using the most effective ones? Sure you add the disclaimer that it's all supplements excluding mults and whey, but it's common knowledge that multis and whey have the most pronounced effects of the supplements. Here's a metaphor for you: "All methods of transportation are useless except for cars." Cars are the most used form of transportation in America, but does that mean that subways, trains, or planes are useless as well? While not perfect, this is pretty close to the statement that you made in the beginning of this thread.

Also, the best gains are made from nutrition, weight lifting, and sleeping. However, adding certain supplements can increase these gains. You were claiming that the best gains were made when you weren't on supplements. Unless you were taking supplements that affected you negatively, it's physically impossible for the lack of "extra" supplements to be the reason you made better gains (if you indeed made better gains). The reason you made better gains was because you had better nutrition, weight lifting, and/or sleeping.

Not taking supplements is a perfectly acceptable practice. Supplements cost money and not all of them help enough to warrant a purchase. I'm just trying to spread the word that most supplements will only help you out if you already have a good program.

Tim

P.S. I would encourage whoever decides to take supplements to look into the studies of the supplement to make sure of it's effects.

[kineticfemme]

I see lots of talk (here and elsewhere) about NO2 supplements. See, now that just plain scares me. Now, wait a minute before you start yelling. I'm not bashing anyone for using it, at all. I'm just saying that I've done research and read about it, and it's scary what it does. Artificially dilating blood vessels like that ... ah dunno ... just doesn't seem healthy. Personally, I wouldn't touch the stuff.

Natural Ms. Olympia

Just playing the devil's advocate...
NO is a vasodilator, as are nitroglycerin and ACE inhibitors, which seem to be pretty helpful for people with hypertension. Alcohol dilates the blood vessels too, even in small to moderate amounts. Interestingly, moderate alcohol consumption has positive effects on heart health. Compounds in corn, garlic, peppermint, ginseng, and leeks also dilate blood vessels. So all of this is scary too??

Kay

[Al Shades]

Some bodybuilders would disagree with you on your "hard gainer" theory. Several experienced bodybuilders will tell you that there is no such thing as a "hard gainer," it's just an excuse that people use because they don't know how to eat/train/rest properly. Now, don't get mad at me. Those aren't my words. I'm just the messenger. ;)

There is a natural condition of being a hard gainer and it's called hyperthyroidism.


Im an ecto. 6'4" at 135 lbs! in 2000.
When I started eating right and working out regularly, i jumped up to 200 lbs in under 2 years. ALL MUSCLE! ( except a pinch below my naval :o) Actually it was from 2000- 2003, but you get my picture :D

Your "starting weight" doesn't determine your bodytype. This is a common mistake made by practically everyone. You could be an endomorph and weigh 135 simply from not eating enough. The fact that you were able to put on so much muscle when you finally did start eating is an indication that you are most likely an ecto-meso or meso-endo hybrid.

About supplements: I tend to agree that most of them are highly ineffective. I've always been amused by people on this board who claim to have started taking some obscure supplement and noticed any difference whatsoever. The supplement logs are a joke, at least from my perspective. I've tried a bunch of supplements, and never experienced any special gains that could be attributed beyond a reasonable doubt to them alone. The "gains" I have noticed have been rather subtle and occured over the long term.

Whey is not the only type of protein. Other types of proteins, such as sustained-dispersion micellar casein, are not "junk supplements". Using them is as legitimate as consuming protein from multiple food sources. So don't say whey alone is one of the few types of legitimate supplements. Say protein powders.

[A FREAK]

i think some supplements are BS but not all

[supplementsavvy]

Wow. It's nice to see that so many of you have done the same thing and have realized that supplements (with very few exceptions) are nothing more than a mass money-making scam. If I had only realized this sooner, I'd be a lot richer. *sigh* Ah well.

Natural Ms. Olympia

I agree with your position...I'm a self-confessed recovering supplement addict. A year ago I realized that I had gone too far when I looked at a dufflebag filled with supplements....easily 100+ bottles of various supps. Although I still use far more supplements than your average person, I've cut down by maybe 70-80%.

I realized that I wasn't as "hardcore" as I used to be, I was more focused on the supplements than I was on the training and nutrition. There were important improvements I could have made to my diet/training and instead I kept on adding more and more supplements. I'll tell you one thing - I would've made a hell of a lot more progress if I had dumped the supplements earlier and revamped my training program by incorporating olympic-style weightlifting into my workouts (I'm a big believer in the power of the Olympic lifts, it's something I've wanted to learn for a long time). Instead I made slow progress despite the hundreds of dollars I spent every month.

It really is an addiction...when you see the dozens of supp bottles on your shelf, you feel like you're definitely going to make progress but for the most part it's an expensive illusion. After tossing most of my supplements I feel better about my bodybuilding, it's enjoyable the way it used to be when I first started at the age of 15, before I knew about supplements.

Anyone who finds themselves taking 20 or more different supplements every day needs to reevaluate. I only wish that I had realized the truth sooner.

[supplementsavvy]

dht will cause gains, it's very anabolic. however, if you're susceptible to male pattern baldness (MPB), id' recommend having something on hand for your hair :D

DHT will not give you siginificant gains...on the anabolic/androgenic scale, DHT is very androgenic, not anabolic. Steroids like Masteron are excellent for promoting strength, aggression in the gym and are known for their hardening effect on the physique. They are not known for promoting significant gains in size.

For most people, DHT based products are a bad buy. If you have any degree of genetic susceptibility to hair loss, kiss your hair goodbye.

[jked4life]

I think supplements have their place, but maybe make up 10% of the total equation. I only use a multi, whey and creatine for bodybuilding purposes. I also take fish oil, flax oil, st. johns wort, and ginko biloba for overall health and well being purposes. Of course, if your diet and training is not on point, I think supplements are absolutely useless.

[USMARINE8152]

Ya, 99% of the supps in or world are crap. But protein or meal replacement drinks or even creatine is good to use. That stuff does work especially the protein since being in the marines and working odd hours eating right is hard so protein shakes are good. I like my supplements

[quest-x]

i think this would be a good point to see for those who spend hundreds on supps thinking that they're magic. obviously supps are just part of the equation; proper nutrition is like 95% (other 5 is training and rest).

however for those that have the vitals in check supps can make a major impact albeit only a few imo. multis are a must. creatine definitely helps me during cutting as it actually keeps my pumps going. a good energy booster doesn't really help me in the gym but it definitely wakes me up in the morning which is REALLY useful.

besides these supps don't really feel much use for anything else. recently decided to try fish oil so i'll see how that goes. and i don't know about you guys, but i have been off of whey for a few months and really don't miss it.