Maddy's Shred it up log-12/12/04

[Maddyg]

Age- 18
H- 5'4
W- 135lbs
BF- I'm not sure

Shoulders- 39.5"
Chest- 32.5"
Waist- 26.5-27"
Hips- 33.5"
Thigh- 21"
Calf- 14.5"
Bicep- 12"
Forearm-9.5"

------
I train 5-6 days/week, taking a break when I feel the need to. I don't have a set rest day.
------
Day 1 - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Day 2 - Back/Biceps/Traps/Abs
Day 3 - Legs
Repeat Cycle

I'll take a journal in with me next time, and get my poundages and excercises to jot down in here.
-------

Diet... It's normally the same, here are my sources:

PROTIEN-
Egg whites, Chicken breasts, Tuna, Whey,

CARBS-
Oatmeal, Vegetables

FATS-
CLA, Fish Oil, Almonds, Walnuts,

CONDIMENTS/MISC-
Low fat/Low sodium sauces
Mustard
Hot sauce
Splenda
Various Spices,
Cinnamon

BEVERAGES-
Soy Milk,
Coffee,
Water
Sugar free drinks (Crystal Light, etc)

SUPPLEMENTS-
ECA stack,
CLA,
Fish Oil,
Gluggerstones,
Chromium,
Vit. C,
Calcium,
Multi,
Zantrex-3 (1/2 the reccomended doesage. I just like it for energy)

------
Yes, it's bland, but I don't mind, honestly... my diet ONLY consists of the things mentioned above.. with the addition of PROTIEN BARS (no sugar added ProtienPlus, by Powerbar) I normally eat 1-3LBS of vegetables everyday, and a lean protien source with EVERY meal. I consume about 140g of protien everyday, and try to keep my carbs at a minimum, since I'm currently cutting. I keep Oatmeal for the morning, and veggies as my carb source throughout the day... and God, do I eat a LOT of vegetables.
------

Goals-
None set, not as in measurements or weight on the scale.
I just want to look good and strong. I do already, but I need to get some more definition going.
I'll post heaps of pictures when I get the chance.

-----

History-

I've been training on and off for about 4 years. I'm mesmo-endo, and gain muscle VERY easily. However, it's my diet I have to watch. I've been hardcore at it for the past 3 months now, and have seen incredible gains/results. At the gym, I'm by far the strongest, most cut woman in there. Which is great, considering I'm just 18 years old. I plan on competing once I'm satisfied with myself.. Probably around age 21.

Unfourtunately over the past 2 years, I've been suffering with depression/eating disorders, which I've been hospitalised for both. Unfourtunately, it DID get the best of me, and I'm trying my best to recover, going through therapy and weening myself off of the anti depressants. Lifting has been by far the best anti-depressant I've encountered.

Before those 2 years, I'd reached a peak of 220 pounds, at 5'3. I still see myself as overweight, but I'm trying my best to get over that.

It's amazing how when I started lifting weights, people were always like......"YOU, lift weights?......." now, they're like........"YOU lift weights, don't you?!?!"

Again, I'll post before and after pictures for you.

Anyway, take care.
I hope to befriend most of you, and hope that your knowledge will help my achieve my goals, and hopefully I'll be able to shed some light with the things I've learned along the way, as well.

Take care!!

Happy Holidays.

[LukeT]

Looking forward to seeing a journal, and that sucks about the depression and eating disorders, best of luck on getting all of that sorted out, just remeber you're only 18, things are going to turn around for you, and physically they not only turned around, but you've completely re-built yourself. Keep at it.
Happy holidays to you aswell.

[bscrusher]

why are you cutting?

if your goals are to look good and strong, and improve definition, you will be better served with much less volume.

you will make faster progress if you cut your training down to 4 sessions total per week.

never lift two days in a row.

then you can increase intensity by a lot. progress will accelerate by a lot.

which lifts you are doing shows much more about the quality of your training than what "parts" you train on a given day.

see what i wrote about body part training on this thread.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=347831


p.s. you should be thinking, researching, and writing as much about your training as you are about your diet.

...

[Maddyg]

why are you cutting?

if your goals are to look good and strong, and improve definition you will be better served with much less volume.

you will make faster progress if you cut your training down to 4 sessions total per week.

never lift two days in a row.

then you can increase intensity by a lot. progress will accelerate by a lot.

which lifts you are doing shows much more about the quality of your training than what "parts" you train on given day.

see what i wrote about body part training on this thread.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=347831

...
I'm 'summer' cutting at the moment, I've got some stomach fat that I'd like to get rid of. I've looked 'bulked' all my life, I just want to really see some more veins, abs, muscles, etc. If you were ever 220 pounds, you'd understand. lol

I'll check out that thread. Thanks for posting it..

You don't seem very joyful/friendly, though which is kinda scary.

lol....

[Maddyg]

Looking forward to seeing a journal, and that sucks about the depression and eating disorders, best of luck on getting all of that sorted out, just remeber you're only 18, things are going to turn around for you, and physically they not only turned around, but you've completely re-built yourself. Keep at it.
Happy holidays to you aswell.

Oh Luke.
:)
Thanks.
You're a darling.

[bscrusher]

you are right. i am not joyful or friendly by nature.

no need to be scared. i am giving you solid advice, also i can not reach through the screen to slap you or whatever.

"cutting" is something competing bodybuilders do.

cutting is not appropriate for you.

if you want to look more lean by summer, that is an excellent goal.

if you are already a lean and muscular 135 pounds, i am wondering how much fat you have to lose.

i suggest you post some pics. improving the look of a physique that is quite muscular and lean is not as simple as "cutting".

[Maddyg]

I'll post pictures, no worries.

Happy Holidays to you, Bscrusher. SMILE . :D:D

[imperfectly_lou]

I'd love to see some pics too Maddy! :)

Welcome to the journal section!

[Emma-Leigh]

Welcome!!

:)

[JLB04]

Welcome! I look forward to reading your journal too! Post pics when you can.

[Maddyg]

Unfourtunately, the gym was closed today. :(
But, I worked out for a bit on my total gym. I've become oddly obsessed with the mirror, and keep looking at myself. Lol, call me strange, but from my transformation, I'm pretty baffeled at my progress.

What I noticed:

-My lats almost fully extend to my waist now.
-I've got heaps of veins in my arms when I'm lifting, even my forearms. My hips have got viens popping out of them, but I have a bit of fat on my sides, so it doesn't make sense.
-My back is DEFINATELY my stongest point. I'm most proud of it, I think. Which is good because a lot of people neglect their backs. The only thing I don't like about it is that I can see my ribs through my back when I do ANY side poses, especially ones where I want to emphasize my lats. I've gotta work on that.

Today what I ate, was alright. I'm not too sure about exact nutritional values, so it's a rough guesstimate. I'm not too good with that, though. I'm going to get an account at Fitday.com.

*MEAL 1*
90g Oatmeal
1/2 scoop Whey
Coffee w/Soy

(Fat-4g
Pro-16g
Carbs-23g
Cals-280)

-----
*MEAL 2*
Protien bar

(Fat- 3.9g
Pro-16g
Carbs-20g (0 sugar carbs)
Cals-182)

-----
*MEAL 3*

90g Chicken breast
1-2c veggies (cukes, tomato, carrots, etc)
1 Apple
Coffee w/soy

(Fat- 2.5g
Pro-17g
Carbs-20
Cals-230)

-----
(I actually fell asleep through this meal..................whoops.... )
-----

*MEAL '5'*

90g turkey breast
1-2c veggies (onions, cabbage, parsnips, carrots, couple almonds)
coffee w/soy

(Fat- 4g
Pro- 20g
Carbs- 2g
Cals-200)

CLA-2g
---------
TOTAL:
Fat-16.4g
Pro- 69g
Carbs- 65g
Cals- 892



---OK? That's so impossible........It can't be that low, it really can't. It's definately got to be higher. I think I miscalculated. I must have.
DAMN that sleeping through meal 4... that would have put me up to where I was supposed to be.

Blah.. anyway, though.. I think it's the ECA stack that's supressing my appetite anyways. I'll eat something later on as well.

I spent a lot of the day today reading through Arnolds Encyclopedia and looking at myself in the mirror. lol..
I'm so cocky, but oh well.
It's all good.

I can't wait to compete.

[Ravenous_T]

What's your general caloric range each day?

[ChristinB916]

Happy Holidays and welcome to the forum! I am so sorry to hear about what you have gone through in the past 2 years. I have gone through some turmoil myself and working out is definatly a powerful cure. It makes me feel so woderful and gives me strength (physically and mentally). I just started a journal on here as well not too long ago. You can feel free to observe mine and chat with me if you have questions, comments, etc. Nice meeting ya!

[bscrusher]

if you are tired enough to sleep through a meal that means you need to sleep.

drop the eca stack, obviously it is not doing you any good.

being very lean and muscular, but having some female softness here or there, DOES make sense. it is how some people are built. it is in your genetic code and it is there for an evolutionary reason.

also this "fat" you write of could be in your imagination. that is why it will be useful for you to post some pics.

soon you will have to make a cost/benefit analysis. you will have to decide how much time and energy to spend on this softness that may seem indestructable. you also will have to evaluate alternate methods of making this region look harder. by alternate methods i mean muscle mass gain and strength training, as opposed to dieting, cardio, or fat loss.

you may find that you will be better served by applying most of your resources to an aspect of your physique that yields more productive results.

you will be doing yourself a big favor if you balance the time spent on your diet with the time spent on your training. don't become obsessed with calorie calculations and the like. these are useful up to a point, but they can very quickly reach the level of diminishing returns.

start working on your training as much as, or more than, your diet. that means you need to think, talk, write about, and research your training as much as your diet.

[Maddyg]

start working on your training as much as, or more than, your diet. that means you need to think, talk, write about, and research your training as much as your diet.

I DO.
I train like mad, I train good and hard.

Why do I feel like you're more attacking me, than actually trying to help?
Mmm, I get this bad vibe from you.

[Maddyg]

Happy Holidays and welcome to the forum! I am so sorry to hear about what you have gone through in the past 2 years. I have gone through some turmoil myself and working out is definatly a powerful cure. It makes me feel so woderful and gives me strength (physically and mentally). I just started a journal on here as well not too long ago. You can feel free to observe mine and chat with me if you have questions, comments, etc. Nice meeting ya!

=)
Nice meeting you too!!
Happy Holidays, dahling.

[Maddyg]

What's your general caloric range each day?

I don't normally have one. I usually eat until I'm satisfied, mentally and physically. I hate that calorie counting stuff... Someone told me that I should do it, though.. So, I tried it just now. lol...
I don't think I'll continue counting, though..
It's kind of annoying.

:P

[bscrusher]

"bad vibe"? are you from san francisco?

maybe the weed you are smoking is making you paranoid.

if you doubt the accuracy or relevance of what i write, do some research.

i wonder what would be the purpose of this "attack" you vaguely mention.

i do not have the time, or the inclination, to attack someone in any context or for any reason. using a virtual persona to attack another virtual persona would seem especially pointless.

everything i write on this forum is for the purpose of directing people more efficiently toward their physique training goals.

i have no doubt that you train hard. i see that you eat pretty smart. i wonder how smart you train.

[Maddyg]

"bad vibe"? are you from san francisco?

maybe the weed you are smoking is making you paranoid.


And you think you're brilliant and witty by making smart ass comments like that?
I don't doubt your advice, I don't doubt it at all, but I'm not going to take it as if it's etched in stone, either.

I'Ve lost over 95 pounds of FAT in my lifetime. I know what works for me, I know what's good with my body and what isn't. Obviously what I'm doing, is working for me.

Soooo.. don't tell me to 'Drop the ECA stack' or that "it is in your genetic code and it is there for an evolutionary reason."...... F*CK genetics. My entire family is fat, and I proved all that crap wrong. I don't blame my **** on genetics. That's what lazy people do.
Obviously my results are STILL progressing. They haven't haulted, and I haven't hit any plateaus. So, I will continue to do what I am doing.

Even though I didn't ask for your opinion in the firrrrrst place.. It's slowly starting to become unwelcome because of your unfriendliness.


I also know there's a few people here who don't like you either.. Mmm.. I guess the fumes from whatever it is I'm smoking is seeping into my computer through to other peoples too! AHHHHHHH!!!!! Maybe I should see if a bitch slap would work...

So, unless you lighten the **** up, please refrain from commenting in my log.
THANKS
:D

[bscrusher]

And you think you're brilliant and witty by making smart ass comments like that?

I don't doubt your advice, I don't doubt it at all,

NOW YOU ARE THINKING SMART.

but I'm not going to take it as if it's etched in stone, either.

GOOD FOR YOU.

I'Ve lost over 95 pounds of FAT in my lifetime. I know what works for me, I know what's good with my body and what isn't. Obviously what I'm doing, is working for me.

IT IS "WORKING" SO FAR, BUT I DOUBT VERY MUCH IF WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS SO PERFECTLY DESIGNED THAT IT CAN NOT BE IMPROVED EASILY AND DRAMATICALLY.

Soooo.. don't tell me to 'Drop the ECA stack'

NOW YOU ARE ONLY SHOWING STUBBORN IGNORANCE.

or that "it is in your genetic code and it is there for an evolutionary reason."......

YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT, BUT IT IS THE TRUTH.

F*CK genetics.

WRITING "F*CK GENETICS" WILL NOT MAKE THE FACTS OF GENETICS CHANGE.

My entire family is fat, and I proved all that crap wrong.

WHAT CRAP? YOU HAVE NOT PROVED ANYTHING.

I don't blame my **** on genetics.

IT IS POINTLESS TO "BLAME" GENETICS JUST AS IT IS POINTLESS TO BLAME GRAVITY.

That's what lazy people do.

LAZY PEOPLE ALSO WRITE LIKE YOU DO.

Obviously my results are STILL progressing. They haven't haulted, and I haven't hit any plateaus. So, I will continue to do what I am doing.

SO YOU DO NOT WANT TO INCREASE THE SPEED OF YOUR PROGRESS?

Even though I didn't ask for your opinion in the firrrrrst place.. It's slowly starting to become unwelcome because of your unfriendliness.

DOES THIS FORUM EXIST FOR PEOPLE TO WRITE LOVE LETTERS TO EACH OTHER, OR IN ORDER TO EXCHANGE IDEAS ON BODYBUILDING?

I AM SURE THAT SOMEWHERE THERE IS A FORUM WHERE PEOPLE WRITE PANEGYRICS TO EACH OTHER ALL DAY. MAYBE YOU WOULD BE HAPPIER ON THAT KIND OF FORUM.

I also know there's a few people here who don't like you either..

...AND YOU, SO WHAT? THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM WHO DO NOT LIKE THEMSELVES. THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM WHO THINK THAT MIDGETS ARE STEALING THEIR SHORTS.

MAYBE THERE IS A FORUM WHERE YOU CAN ENTER A VIRTUAL POPULARITY CONTEST. I BET IT WILL BE A LOT MORE FUN FOR YOU THAN THIS FORUM.

Mmm.. I guess the fumes from whatever it is I'm smoking is seeping into my computer through to other peoples too! AHHHHHHH!!!!! Maybe I should see if a bitch slap would work...

So, unless you lighten the **** up, please refrain from commenting in my log.
THANKS
:D

maddy, you may be surprised and disappointed to learn this, but this is not "your log". it is a public forum. i do not post here for you only. i post here for the benefit of the MANY people who read this.

if you do not want me to write in "your log", get a real ink pen and write your log in a little paper book like they did in the old days. then you can show it only to people you absolutely know will not give critique or advice. you can even get people to swear ahead of time that they will only tell you what a perfect genius you are, before you show them your precious log.

i find it hilarious that you feel a "bad vibe" from the idea of improving your situation.

[egoatdoor]

BS Crusher, Maddie has every right to ask you not to participate in her log, so adhere to her wishes and butt out. Otherwise, me and I am sure others will report you to the moderators.

[egoatdoor]

Maddie, welcome to BB.com. You are a very ambitious and smart young lady. Looking forward to following your Journal.

Check your private message box. I am going to send you a PM.

[bscrusher]

BS Crusher, Maddie has every right to ask you not to participate in her log, so adhere to her wishes and butt out. Otherwise, me and I am sure others will report you to the moderators.

maddy has every right to ask anyone anything, and so does everyone else.



p.s. oh pleeeeeez big bad mister goat persona, do not report bscrusher to THE MODERATORS! bscrusher is SO SCARED.... sob... sniffle...

[LukeT]

maddy has every right to ask anyone anything, and so does everyone else.



p.s. oh pleeeeeez big bad mister goat persona, do not report bscrusher to THE MODERATORS! bscrusher is SO SCARED.... sob... sniffle...
So how old are you? 13? If so, you are one immature 13 year old.

[mirror]

Maddy is 18: it's in her sig.

[Maddyg]

Maddy is 18: it's in her sig.

I think he meant Bscrusher.. at least, he better have.

If Not, Luke, I'm kickin' yer ass, boy!

(Kiddin, I love Luke..lol)

[Maddyg]

Maddie, welcome to BB.com. You are a very ambitious and smart young lady. Looking forward to following your Journal.

Check your private message box. I am going to send you a PM.

=)

I appriciate the PM, oh so true, thanks. :)
Hehe


I appriciate your support. :)

[Maddyg]

maddy has every right to ask anyone anything, and so does everyone else.



p.s. oh pleeeeeez big bad mister goat persona, do not report bscrusher to THE MODERATORS! bscrusher is SO SCARED.... sob... sniffle...

lol, you're such a loser.

Now, go away little boy and stop posting my in journal.
:D

[Maddyg]

I decided last night that I really need to pay attention to my legs. The demands of leg training is so high, if you think about it.... I mean, go to the gym. You'll see (I promise) big buff guys with tiny, pencil legs. It happens. They think they're all that, but if they got on stage.. Oh my. Enough said, I think.

Yeah, my 'genetics' aren't that great for leg development, but in the past, I built a solid foundation and then had some crap happen, and couldn't dedicate myself as much as I'd liked to. However, the past year or so has been pretty steady as to my lifting.

I'll clarify about the whole genetics thing.. since the last few replies to my journal by a certain *******, pissed me off.

Look at Arnold's calves and Tom Platz's legs. F*ck, Arnold used to do shots while standing in water, because his calves were unproportioned to his body... They both had horribly bad genetics in those areas, but holy **** look at them now. Frank Zane worked his butt off to get his Serratus muscles so prominent. When he stood on stage and did any pose with his arms in the air.. watch out! he took all. So, **** Genetics. Hard work, dedication and proper dieting got them the results they worked so hard for.

So, as if.. as IF I'm going to (or ever have) let my 'genetics' get in the way of achieving the body and physique I want to, and WILL get.

My family: All overweight..most cases obese, short (I'm short, too, can't help that), bad health, poor eating habits, bad muscular structures, bad everything.

And...seriously. Put ME next to my family, and you wouldn't know that we were related.

Gentics?
Oh give me a ****ing break.
**** genetics.
People who say 'Oh, it's just my genetics,' give up way too easily. I'm not about to give into that, or give up on myself.. so, bscrusher, you ****ing IDIOT, I'm NOT lazy in how I talk (when you said that, that didn't make any sense anyways)... I think you're just lazy and let the whole genetics thing **** up your dedication as a bodybuilder. Bodybuilder? Yeah, probably not.
Go post in OTHER fourms.. I've never seen you in other fourms. Why? Because you're probably too intimidated by other MEN, that you have to stick around a womens fourm because you think we'll look up to you because you're a guy.. Oh, go to hell.

Anyway..
LEG workout today..
went really well.

I spent a good 20minutes on my calves. Did 8 sets. I believe that legs, being so huge, respond well to intense training, and not so much high reps, etc. I mean.. they already HAVE that endurance, right? So, light weights is already what they're used to.. from walking around all day, etc.. Same with Calves. They already have the endurance.. so, up those weights! You'll see results. I have, anyways.

I have really short legs, so I see huge results from squats. I include squats, deadlifts and leg presses for mass. For definition and a really good pump, I use leg extentions, lying and seated legcurls and a lot of stretching. On the last sets of my leg extentions, I use a stripping method and go to absolute failure. I do the same thing with leg curls, except I do not remove weights, rather just keep trying to do as many reps as possible, until I'm only lifting 1/4 of an inch. That was Tom Platz's method, too. I think he has outrageous legs.

Legs and Calves.. in order to see real development, you have to REALLY push the **** out of them, and tourture them. Not overtrain them of course, but don't just do 15 reps and stop, when you KNOW you can do another rep. Up those weights until 15.. is all that you can do.

My routine today:

Leg extentions: 2x20, 3x15
Leg Curls: 2x20, 3x15

Leg press: (toes pointed outwards to target inner thighs)-my weakpoint
2x20, 3x15, 1xto failure
(Toes pointed straight forward)
3x15, 1xto failure

Dead lifts:
2x20, 3x15

Leg curls:
1x15, 2xto failure
Leg Extentions (stripping method)
1 set

--
Calves (we only have the seated calf machine, as well as the leg press one.. I wish we had donkey calf raises or the standing one)
When I do calves, between sets, I do toe raises with no weights, just standing there. I also stretch them between each set.

Seated raises:
2x25
3x15
2x to failure
1set stripping (normally 40 reps, I think)

---
I followed that with 30 minutes of low intensity cardio, while I drank my whey shake.

---
I loved this workout, it might not seem appropriate for some people, but it works like mad for me.

I'll post my diet later on today.

[krankyprincess]

maggy you make yourself sound so stupid to everyone on this forum by being so sensitive to criticism. The point of this forum is to get advice, good or bad. I guarantee you the best advice you will get on this forum is from bscrusher whether you like his style of writing or not. So if your purpose for this journal is to get bodybuilding advice you should suck it up and listen. If your purpose is to have friendly chats with people then get mad all you want.

[Maddyg]

I take advice from people who give it to me without an 'I'm better than you, unfriendly' manner.

Yeah, I'm looking for advice once in a while, but people don't have to be so serious and cranky all the time.

[egoatdoor]

Hi, Maddy. I've read your posts and have some thoughts. Here they are in a rather random order:

- Oh, I wish I was 18 again, LOL. Glad you have the energy to train 5 or 6 days a week, 3 days on and repeat. But it seems to work for you and you know when to take time off.
- Even though you are cutting, I'm worried that doing low carbs every day, especially with the heavy training schedule you have, could very easily result in your muscle being catabolised over the medium or long term. Are you familiar with carb cycling, which would give you occasional higher carbs days to help combat catabolism while not compromising your overall goal of cutting bodyfat?
- You were puzzled about the "fat" on your sides even though you have veins elsewhere. This is not unusual. Different people carry fat and have difficulty getting it out of certain areas. I am a guy and even when I get down to middle single digit bodyfat and the rest of me is hard and firm, I still will have stubborn "lovehandles" on my side and lower back that are a p**s to get rid of. It is probably going to take extra work and diligence to get that area firmed up.
- Great to see a woman who is proud of her back!! And as a man struggling with high lats, I'm very jealous of your 'down to the waist" ones. :D I;m waiting anxiously to see your posts of your back workouts.
- Fitday is great. I started using it a year and a half ago after years of calculating manually. Its easy and saves so much time. PM me if you have any questions or problems with it.
- You had mentioned possibly competing in 3 years and then later commented that you do not like calorie counting. Unfortunately, tracking your calories, protein, carbs and ratios will probably be a necessity if you really want to be a successful competitor. If you do not track and then end up not getting into your best condition for a show ( or even in the offseason you find that your physique has plateaued for a period of time or you are not making the gains you were aiming for over some period), it will be extremely difficult to figure out what you might change the next time if you do not have detailed written records of what you did before. I know it sounds like a pain in the a** ( I hate it too), but there are always some sacrifices that one has to make. As I just said, I found Fitday does remove some of the drudgery.
- You mentioned the limited calf options in your gym. Does the gym have a 45 degree hack squat machine? If so, I have an exercise that you can do on that is a good substitute for standing calf raises.

[Penna]

thanks for posting a bit of your background, maddy. it's encouraging. :)

[bscrusher]

Gentics?
Oh give me a ****ing break.
**** genetics.
People who say 'Oh, it's just my genetics,' give up way too easily.

WHY MENTION THOSE PEOPLE? WHO ARE THEY, AND IN WHAT CONTEXT ARE THEY SAYING "OH, IT'S JUST MY GENETICS"?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY ALL THAT?

I'm not about to give into that,

GIVE IN TO WHAT?

or give up on myself..

UM... OK...

so, bscrusher, you ****ing IDIOT, I'm NOT lazy in how I talk

YOU ARE LAZY IN THE WAY YOU READ, THE WAY YOU THINK, AND IN THE WAY YOU WRITE. I SUGGEST YOU READ MY POSTS AGAIN. YOU ARE IN A FANTASY WORLD ABOUT THIS GENETICS THING.

(when you said that, that didn't make any sense anyways)...

READ IT AGAIN, IT WILL.

I think you're just lazy and let the whole genetics thing **** up your dedication as a bodybuilder.

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT?

Bodybuilder? Yeah, probably not.
Go post in OTHER fourms.. I've never seen you in other fourms. Why? Because you're probably too intimidated by other MEN,

THANK YOU MADDY FOR MAKING ME LAUGH OUT LOUD. I MUST POINT PUT TO YOU THAT NORMAL PEOPLE ARE NOT INTIMIDATED BY ONLINE PERSONAS. THAT IS ONE OF YOUR UNIQUE ODDITIES. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW TOUGH, OR MEAN, OR DOWNRIGHT HOMICIDAL SOMEONE IS, YOU CAN NOT REACH THROUGH THE COMPUTER SCREEN TO CHOKE SOMEBODY.

that you have to stick around a womens fourm because you think we'll look up to you because you're a guy..

THIS SAYS A LOT ABOUT YOUR OPINION OF THE WOMEN ON THIS FORUM AND OF WOMEN IN GENERAL

Oh, go to hell.


what you are doing is called "projecting."

[Maddyg]

Hi, Maddy. I've read your posts and have some thoughts. Here they are in a rather random order....

Now, THERE'S constructive 'critisism',
Thank you. =)

Can you describe that exsercise on the hack squat for me?
:D

Thanks.

Yeah, counting calories is suchhhhhh a pain.. lol, but I know I have to do it.
Fitday, here I come! lol

I'm looking forward to hearing what other advice you have.
Thanks again!

[Maddyg]

thanks for posting a bit of your background, maddy. it's encouraging. :)

Aw thanks.
Hope to see you post around the fourm in the future!
What are your goals?
You should start a log too. :P

[Maddyg]

My legs were too sore today, so I didn't go to the gym.
I felt like **** today, anyways.

I had a really bad spell last night, a depression spell.. I thought I was going crazy, it wasn't very fun.

I went to the medical clinic today, and saw my psychologist for 3.5 hours, followed by a session with my family doctor, who after speaking to both my psychologist and I, diagnosed me as officially having anorexia nervosia and bipolar disorder.
I was prescribed Prozac and Valume.

I. feel. like. ****.

[Ivey_Itch]

Hi Maddyg,
I really hope you feel better. I'm sorry to hear how bad you feel. I've been feeling depressed lately myself. Thank you for being strong enough to go get the help. I'm very proud of you, I know asking for help is not easy. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone, although you probably feel more alone than ever. Thank you again for being strong enough to talk to someone. I wish you all the luck in the world.
-Kim

[bscrusher]

at a strong, muscular 5'4" and 135 pounds, i think you must be one of the healthiest anorexics i have ever heard of.

if that is your version of anorexia, it doesn't sound so bad. see if you can get lou to catch your strain of anorexia.

[Ravenous_T]

at a strong, muscular 5'4" and 135 pounds, i think you must be one of the healthiest anorexics i have ever heard of.

if that is your version of anorexia, it doesn't sound so bad. see if you can get lou to catch your strain of anorexia.


I was severely anoerexic in my teenage years and was still muscular and had a ton of bodyfat. Everyone's bodies react differently. Anorexia is a terrible disease, I don't really think it's to be presented the way you talk about it in this post.

[egoatdoor]

at a strong, muscular 5'4" and 135 pounds, i think you must be one of the healthiest anorexics i have ever heard of.

if that is your version of anorexia, it doesn't sound so bad. see if you can get lou to catch your strain of anorexia.

BS, This is your last warning. STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD.

[Gabrielle]

<<<<Complete DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria
Eating Disorders
Anorexia Nervosa
The patient will not maintain a minimum body weight (for example, 85% of expected weight for height and age).
Despite being underweight, the patient intensely fears becoming fat.
Self-perception of the body is abnormal, shown by at least 1 of:
--Unduly emphasizes weight or shape in self-evaluation
--Denies seriousness of low weight
--Has a distorted perception of own body shape or weight
Due to weight loss, a female patient has missed at least 3 consecutive periods (or periods occur only when she is given hormones).
Specify whether:
Binge-Eating/Purging Type. During an anorectic episode, the patient often purges (vomits, uses laxatives or diuretics) or eats in binges.
Restricting Type. No bingeing or purging during an anorectic episode. This is the more usual type. >>>>

A diagnosis of anorexia requires that you be at or below 85% of your expected body weight.
Maddy, your doctor thinks that you should weight 15% more?

I have NEVER seen prozac and valium used to treat bipolar disorder~in fact, prozac is contraindicated by itself.
Maddy, are you also on a mood stablizer?

Something is very odd here.

[Ravenous_T]

<<<<Complete DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria
Eating Disorders
Anorexia Nervosa
The patient will not maintain a minimum body weight (for example, 85% of expected weight for height and age).
Despite being underweight, the patient intensely fears becoming fat.
Self-perception of the body is abnormal, shown by at least 1 of:
--Unduly emphasizes weight or shape in self-evaluation
--Denies seriousness of low weight
--Has a distorted perception of own body shape or weight
Due to weight loss, a female patient has missed at least 3 consecutive periods (or periods occur only when she is given hormones).
Specify whether:
Binge-Eating/Purging Type. During an anorectic episode, the patient often purges (vomits, uses laxatives or diuretics) or eats in binges.
Restricting Type. No bingeing or purging during an anorectic episode. This is the more usual type. >>>>

A diagnosis of anorexia requires that you be at or below 85% of your expected body weight.
Maddy, your doctor thinks that you should weight 15% more?

I have NEVER seen prozac and valium used to treat bipolar disorder~in fact, prozac is contraindicated by itself.
Maddy, are you also on a mood stablizer?

Something is very odd here.


Sorry, but you do not have to be underweight to be diagnosed with anorexia. I was anorexic for years (eating sub 1000 cals, usually around 500) and was still considered overweight. My doctor, psychiatrist, and concellor all diagnosed me with anorexia.

[imperfectly_lou]

at a strong, muscular 5'4" and 135 pounds, i think you must be one of the healthiest anorexics i have ever heard of.

if that is your version of anorexia, it doesn't sound so bad. see if you can get lou to catch your strain of anorexia.

That is a really hurtful thing to say :(

As Ravenous has said, people of ALL shapes and sizes can suffer from eating disorders. Considering they are a psychological disorder with physical symptoms, don't just judge the book by its cover...

[Gabrielle]

Sorry, but you do not have to be underweight to be diagnosed with anorexia. I was anorexic for years (eating sub 1000 cals, usually around 500) and was still considered overweight. My doctor, psychiatrist, and concellor all diagnosed me with anorexia.

How long could you possibly have eaten that few calories and not be underweight?

I'm sorry, Rav, but the DSM is the standard of diagnosis criteria for mental health. You may certainly have an eating disorder, but anorexia requires low body weight. You cannot be overweight and be anorexic~even if 10 doctors told you you were.

I won't argue it with you, tho, you are certainly entitled to think you have anything you want.

[Maddyg]

<<<<Complete DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria
Eating Disorders
Anorexia Nervosa
The patient will not maintain a minimum body weight (for example, 85% of expected weight for height and age).
Despite being underweight, the patient intensely fears becoming fat.
Self-perception of the body is abnormal, shown by at least 1 of:
--Unduly emphasizes weight or shape in self-evaluation
--Denies seriousness of low weight
--Has a distorted perception of own body shape or weight
Due to weight loss, a female patient has missed at least 3 consecutive periods (or periods occur only when she is given hormones).
Specify whether:
Binge-Eating/Purging Type. During an anorectic episode, the patient often purges (vomits, uses laxatives or diuretics) or eats in binges.
Restricting Type. No bingeing or purging during an anorectic episode. This is the more usual type. >>>>

A diagnosis of anorexia requires that you be at or below 85% of your expected body weight.
Maddy, your doctor thinks that you should weight 15% more?

I have NEVER seen prozac and valium used to treat bipolar disorder~in fact, prozac is contraindicated by itself.
Maddy, are you also on a mood stablizer?

Something is very odd here.

That is SUCH bull****!
Both my psychologist and family doctor set a diagnoses on me, how can that be odd?!

[Maddyg]

I won't argue it with you, tho, you are certainly entitled to think you have anything you want.

Think?

Riiiiight.

[Maddyg]

I'm not even going to bother keeping this thread anymore.

Maybe I bring it on myself, but already I severely dislike a couple people, and have gotten so many negative comments.

Anyway, that ends that.

[moody_weasel]

You have bipolar disorder alright or just a bad case of being-bored-enough-to-make-up-and-post-complete-crap-in-the-journal-section.

Allow me to quote from one of your early posts:


Today what I ate, was alright. I'm not too sure about exact nutritional values, so it's a rough guesstimate. I'm not too good with that, though. I'm going to get an account at Fitday.com.

*snip*
---------
TOTAL:
Fat-16.4g
Pro- 69g
Carbs- 65g
Cals- 892



So what you ate all day was alright but it was just a total of 892, how is that alright? You tell us that you usually eat 140 g of protein yet here I only see 69 - yeah, you slept through meal four and were going to eat something else later on. So in 4 meals you managed to eat half of what you usually eat in protein. I think you are just kidding yourself.

In your first post you tell us that you eat 1-3 lbs of vegetables each day and around 140 g of protein plus oatmeal and protein bars. Now you have anorexia nervosa.

I can't believe only BSC and Gabrielle have noticed that your posts are full of bull****.

Go play elsewhere.

[Makeupmonsterdo]

at a strong, muscular 5'4" and 135 pounds, i think you must be one of the healthiest anorexics i have ever heard of.

if that is your version of anorexia, it doesn't sound so bad. see if you can get lou to catch your strain of anorexia.


I've been reading Bscrusher's comments on this thread and many others and kept all thoughts to myself. But, really, enough is enough.

Do you think that people with eating disorders (whether they really have one or you assume they have them) are HAPPY with their habits? Do you realize that it is a struggle--to recognize their disorder, to admit to it, to seek help in a public forum for it? Do you think that mocking them or putting them down will help them with their recovery? Are you encouraging them in their journey towards inner peace?

No. When we all are applauding them for their courage, you are merely trying to humiliate them.

Makes me wonder just who did you wrong to make you so miserable.

[Ravenous_T]

How long could you possibly have eaten that few calories and not be underweight?

I'm sorry, Rav, but the DSM is the standard of diagnosis criteria for mental health. You may certainly have an eating disorder, but anorexia requires low body weight. You cannot be overweight and be anorexic~even if 10 doctors told you you were.

I won't argue it with you, tho, you are certainly entitled to think you have anything you want.

As I said, YEARS. Probably 5-6 all together. As I said before, some people's bodies react differenly. Some people become very underweight, some hoard bodyfat like there's no tomorrow.

I am very interested to know what kind of eating disorder I had if I could not be diagnosed with anorexia. It's extremely nieve and dangerous for you to make blanket statments like "You cannot be overweight and be anorexic", especially considering you are saying you are trained in this field.

[Emma-Leigh]

As I said, YEARS. Probably 5-6 all together. As I said before, some people's bodies react differenly. Some people become very underweight, some hoard bodyfat like there's no tomorrow.

I am very interested to know what kind of eating disorder I had if I could not be diagnosed with anorexia. It's extremely nieve and dangerous for you to make blanket statments like "You cannot be overweight and be anorexic", especially considering you are saying you are trained in this field.

Argggg... Ok - I didn't want to get involved in an arguement over who had what and peoples individual psychiatric history's as it is a very, well, emotionally charged topic.

So I am not commenting on if anyone in particular had/has a given eating disorder. I do not know the personal history, food consumption history, behavioural patterns or thought patterns etc. of anyone in this thread so this is NOT directed at anyone!!

But I have to agree with Gabreille.

The DSM-IV is a medical 'standard' text put out by the American Psychiatric Association. You can find out more about it Here (http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html).

There is also the DSM-IV-TR which is a 'tie over' manual until the new addition comes out in 2006.

Anyway - It basically sets the diagnostic criteria for psychiatric disorders - so you need to demonstrate those particular symptoms and signs before you can technically be diagnosed with that given psychological disease.

So, although people can demonstrate many of the signs of a particular disorder, and they can have anorexic tendencies and have disordered eating but, until they demonstrate all the needed criteria they just 'don't fit' the 'medical mold'.

People can have the most appaulling food obsessions and restrictive eating or purge activities - and they can obsess over 'fat' and do endless exercise... But, unless they have all the needed factors for diagnosis, they do not 'technically' have THAT particular disease... BUT they can/do/will have a FULL BLOWN EATING DISORDER.... but not anorexia nervosa.

If you are interested, here is some information on the particular diagnostic information on:

Anorexia:
http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/anorexia.htm
http://www.poppink.com/dsmiv/2.html


Bulemia:
http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/bulimia_nervosa.htm
http://www.poppink.com/dsmiv/8.html

And Eating Disorders (Not otherwise specified):
http://www.poppink.com/dsmiv/14.html


Now - I REPEAT: This is NOT a comment on ANY PERSONS PERSONAL SITUATION SO PLEASE do not take it as that!!!

I am just providing people with the information.

[Gabrielle]

As I said, YEARS. Probably 5-6 all together. As I said before, some people's bodies react differenly. Some people become very underweight, some hoard bodyfat like there's no tomorrow.

I am very interested to know what kind of eating disorder I had if I could not be diagnosed with anorexia. It's extremely nieve and dangerous for you to make blanket statments like "You cannot be overweight and be anorexic", especially considering you are saying you are trained in this field.

I have been treating eating disorders since the time you have been on the face of the planet, Rav~and there is one thing I know for certain: the attempt to dissuade a neurotic young woman from her obsession with food is as pointless as doing a 1000 crunches to tone abs.

If you knew anorexia the way I do, you would be thrilled to not have that diagnosis attached to you.

I am sure you have lots of positive things to contribute. Knowledge of eating disorders is not one of them.

[bscrusher]

That is a really hurtful thing to say :(

As Ravenous has said, people of ALL shapes and sizes can suffer from eating disorders. Considering they are a psychological disorder with physical symptoms, don't just judge the book by its cover...

hi lou, just because you are hurt does not mean truth or levity are inherently hurtful.

"... book by it's cover..."? i am not surprised you are writing with weak reasoning lou, since you are in the middle of your particular type of crisis, you are seeing EVERYTHING as some sort of attack right now. i am sure you have these sorts of relapses at regular intervals. i am hoping the intervals are getting less frequent and the depressions less severe, that would be good news.

actually lou, for someone with a severe disorder you look really great, there is no visble evidence of a problem. it is your journal that tells the story. if maddy writes about herself accurately, she must be the fittest strongest anorexic in existence. if you had a choice of being a wasted, thin, ugly, weak, and sickly anorexic, or being a beautiful, healthy, strong athletic, or even muscular anorexic, which would you prefer? which do you think will live longer?

everyone should be reading what gabrielle, emma and rav are writing.

this subject is sort of taking over the forum. i think that will be a good thing for a while, as obviously anorexia, body dysmorphia, and other mental issues are powerful forces that effect the progress of many persons on this forum.

to put it bluntly, and to paraphrase gabrielle, the more damaged a person is, the less likely that person is to respond to requests to act normal. so i think we should not let emotions or impatience degrade the quality of our discussion. we have an oppurtunity to learn something, and maybe help some people closer to wellness.

i hope we can resolve what exactly anorexia IS, but more importantly, i hope we can help the people that are struggling at all levels, with hatred or fear of their own bodies, to find some way to help themselves.


monster, goat, this is a discussion for adults, you both are way out of your depth.

[Ravenous_T]

I have been treating eating disorders since the time you have been on the face of the planet, Rav~and there is one thing I know for certain: the attempt to dissuade a neurotic young woman from her obsession with food is as pointless as doing a 1000 crunches to tone abs.

If you knew anorexia the way I do, you would be thrilled to not have that diagnosis attached to you.

I am sure you have lots of positive things to contribute. Knowledge of eating disorders is not one of them.


Any more assumptions you would like to spew out Gabrielle? Thank you for telling me that I have no knowledge of eating disorders. When was the last time that you were qualified to make that decsion?

Also, I may be mistaken, but are you not the person who lied about her degrees?

[Gabrielle]

Any more assumptions you would like to spew out Gabrielle? Thank you for telling me that I have no knowledge of eating disorders. When was the last time that you were qualified to make that decsion?

Also, I may be mistaken, but are you not the person who lied about her degrees?

No that wouldn't be me, Rav, I've never discussed my degrees here.
But nice try

[Gabrielle]

this subject is sort of taking over the forum. i think that will be a good thing for a while, as obviously anorexia, body dysmorphia, and other mental issues are powerful forces that effect the progress of many persons on this forum.

to put it bluntly, and to paraphrase gabrielle, the more damaged a person is, the less likely that person is to respond to requests to act normal. so i think we should not let emotions or impatience degrade the quality of our discussion. we have an oppurtunity to learn something, and maybe help some people closer to wellness.

i hope we can resolve what exactly anorexia IS, but more importantly, i hope we can help the people that are struggling at all levels, with hatred or fear of their own bodies, to find some way to help themselves.


This would be very nice. However, in a forum where people are encouraged to plan and then document their every bite of food to the nth gram and oz so that the rest of the members can analyze and critique it.....well, moving away from obsessing about food seems highly unlikely.

[Ravenous_T]

This would be very nice. However, in a forum where people are encouraged to plan and then document their every bite of food to the nth gram and oz so that the rest of the members can analyze and critique it.....well, moving away from obsessing about food seems highly unlikely.


There are plenty of people here that have managed not to partake in that.

[moody_weasel]

this subject is sort of taking over the forum. i think that will be a good thing for a while, as obviously anorexia, body dysmorphia, and other mental issues are powerful forces that effect the progress of many persons on this forum.


It's not just the subject that is taking over the forum, it's those that suffer from it as well.

When was the last time somebody here asked about how to bulk and how many responses did the post get?

A couple of weeks ago someone asked about how to put on upper body muscle. One response gave a detailed description on how to lose weight, the poster assumed the woman who clearly stated she wanted to gain muscle wanted to lose fat in the legs. Misinterpretation or just a "sister" who thought she was helping out a fellow anorexic?

I've stopped counting the threads that ask for advice on how to lose "fat" and where it later turns out the person asking is underweight already.

So here we are, giving advice to people on how to starve themselves more efficiently. :mad:

[Gabrielle]

It's not just the subject that is taking over the forum, it's those that suffer from it as well.

When was the last time somebody here asked about how to bulk and how many responses did the post get?

A couple of weeks ago someone asked about how to put on upper body muscle. One response gave a detailed description on how to lose weight, the poster assumed the woman who clearly stated she wanted to gain muscle wanted to lose fat in the legs. Misinterpretation or just a "sister" who thought she was helping out a fellow anorexic?

I've stopped counting the threads that ask for advice on how to lose "fat" and where it later turns out the person asking is underweight already.

So here we are, giving advice to people on how to starve themselves more efficiently. :mad:

Exactly right.
What I find most disturbing, but entirely predictable is the "my eating disorder is worse than your eating disorder" crap that goes on. Sadly, expressing the most extreme symptoms gains lots of attention here(it is difficult to tell this forum from a pro ana site at times) Active ED's function to gain negative and dramatic attention from others, anyone. The ED's that show up here have probably worn out all their real life options.
When ED's want to really get better, the first thing they do is stop talking to other people with ED's. It's total poison

[hotgymchick]

Exactly right.
What I find most disturbing, but entirely predictable is the "my eating disorder is worse than your eating disorder" crap that goes on. Sadly, expressing the most extreme symptoms gains lots of attention here(it is difficult to tell this forum from a pro ana site at times) Active ED's function to gain negative and dramatic attention from others, anyone. The ED's that show up here have probably worn out all their real life options.
When ED's want to really get better, the first thing they do is stop talking to other people with ED's. It's total poison


I agree, I posted something similiar in Lou's "Very Large" thread. People need to stop harping on their eating disorders. It's mainly an attention getting ploy in order to receive compliments about how they don't need to lose fat.

Have some self-assurance and confidence.

[bscrusher]

It's not just the subject that is taking over the forum, it's those that suffer from it as well.

When was the last time somebody here asked about how to bulk and how many responses did the post get?

A couple of weeks ago someone asked about how to put on upper body muscle. One response gave a detailed description on how to lose weight, the poster assumed the woman who clearly stated she wanted to gain muscle wanted to lose fat in the legs. Misinterpretation or just a "sister" who thought she was helping out a fellow anorexic?

I've stopped counting the threads that ask for advice on how to lose "fat" and where it later turns out the person asking is underweight already.

So here we are, giving advice to people on how to starve themselves more efficiently. :mad:

BUMP! the weasel.

[Terryocean]

First off I am a newbie and I am not trying to fight I just wanted to state an opinion. Hope I dont offend anyone! ;)

do you or did you take all those supplements while taking your anti-depressants? Just wondering because supplements are said to counteract anti-depressants... I want to take supplements but I too am on anti-depressants.

Oh and to the Anorexia issue... NOT all diagnosed Anorexics have gotten to that UNDER weight period of their disorder! Hello you have to start out at some weight. Not all of them start out at 100 pounds and end up at 85 or something. You CAN be anorexic and weight more. MAYBE not by the medical standards, but those should be changed. Anyone who starves themselves and eats well under 800 calories and over excerises etc could be consider anorexic or having anorexia athletica. Just my two cents. OH and bulimics can be of any weight...

[Terryocean]

technically those of a higher weight would be ed-nos eating disorder not otherwise specified. The criteria really should be changed.

[egoatdoor]

I don't think you are going to get a response from Maddy if that is who the question is posed to. She hasn't posted anywhere sinceshe left this thread in December.