View Full Version : Chiropractic and pumping iron
I'm in relatively good shape for a guy that's about to turn 40, but my neck ain't what it used to be. I strained my neck this past weekend doing some bar bell military press, and it's really not uncommon for me to strain my neck once every 8 weeks or so.
So I'm considering seeing a chiropractor, but I don't want to get
scammed. I was hoping for some feedback from some of you if you seek chiropractic care as a regular part of your routine year round, or if you've seen one for treatment for a more limited period of time for neck or back problems. Thanks
Vendetti
06-10-2002, 02:57 PM
I have been going to a chiropractor since 1965 at 15 years old . They have only helped me . Like any other Doctor make sure the one you go to is a good one . I would think that at the local gyms in your area . The guys would know about who's good or not .
In our Town theirs four Chiroractors in a small town of 10,000 and all the guys then train know the ones to see and the ones not to see !
I go about once or twice ayear 35 bucks a visit .
MAX MADMAN
06-10-2002, 06:00 PM
I see a chiro weekly for "maintenance" on the bod as I'm 54, lift heavy as possible 4-6 reps and one bodypart per week. I've hurt my lower back and rotator cuff. Meds and therapy didn't work........ chiro did! So, I swear by it personally. Just make sure you go to a good one, preferably experienced with athletes (mine is a weight trainer himself). Get references from people.
STAY AWAY FROM THE MILITARYS FOR NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gymstud2002
06-10-2002, 06:31 PM
Anybody use chiropractic for knees? No back, no neck problems here, but oh the knees on some days. Can a good chiropractor help me out?
I have an odd situation with my left hip. Whenever I raise my knee level with my hip, and then lower it, my hip CLUNKS. I guess this is the joint going out of alignment. No pain though......yet!
If I raise my knee to the side, it doesn't happen, nor do I have any problem when the leg is under stress i.e. squats.
Anyone had anything similar?
IPR
What does your chiro actually do on your weekly visits Max? And what's your approximate monthly budget for the work you have done? Thanx
Charger
06-10-2002, 08:51 PM
Tex,
I have had for the most part good results to great results from going to a Chiropractor, well worth the money. Two pieces of advice, (sorry Max) but if they want to put you on a schedule, RUN!!! The best I have found yet tells me he measures his sucsess if he doesn't see me.
Second, follow his instructions to the letter. A chiropractic treatment is alot like weight lifting. He doesn't heal you in his office just as you don't build muscle in a gym. He put's you back in place and what you do after leaving his office is what makes or breaks his treatment. Be prepared to take a break from lifting.
I would do as Max and Vendetti said, ask around your gym, my bet is they can point you in the right direction. My Chiropractor also lifts. He is the biggest reason I do.
MAX MADMAN
06-11-2002, 05:28 PM
Tex:
Be careful of the strains as they can turn into pinched nerves very easily if not properly treated and THEY are a bitch!!
I go to the chiro weekly for a basic "tune-up" of back leg, hip, neck and shoulders via what chiro's call "adjustments". I may be able to get away with less, but I just came off a major lower back and rotator cuff injury, so I'd rather play it safe since weight training is my passion. Health Insurance may pay for all ofor some of the costs depending what you've got and what the plan covers. If I didn't have some coverage, I'd pay about $60/per month for 4 weekly vists.
Although Charger and I agree on many things, I have to disagree on the "running" advice (sorry, bud)...............at least until you get
properly diagnosed and treated. Running could make things worse in some cases!!!
Gymstud, it can work for knees as well, but 1st I'd get Xrays and have them read by a competent sports medicine doc. Sometimes, we all get knee problems given the combination of our advancing age and overuse. Try some "joint fuel" approach such as glucosaamine/chondroitin or good 'ol fashioned Knox gelatin. For some, a maintenance of this stuff works wonders. If it doesn't, try the chiropractic approach if you're comfortable enough!
Charger
06-12-2002, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by MAX MADMAN
Tex:
Although Charger and I agree on many things, I have to disagree on the "running" advice (sorry, bud)...............at least until you get
properly diagnosed and treated. Running could make things worse in some cases!!!
!
Tex,
What I was refering to as far as running was running to another Chiropractor. If you choose to see one for maintanance on a weekly basis as Max does, that's fine. But there are alot of Chiropractors out there that tell you to come once a week. For most in my book that is not needed, for some it's a life savor.
A friend of mine was diagnosed with arthritas and swears by weekly visit's. The best Chiropractors though are the ones who advise seeing you only when you need to.
Max, I am sure weekly is best for you and your needs and please don't take this above advise as a put down to you or your Doctor, not meant that way. I have seen 2 other doc's who wanted to get me on a shedule and neither were as good as my current who hopes to see me as little as possibe. Maybe it's me!
Speaking of insurance though, we recently switched to a HMO:mad: It will only treat a particuler injury for 2 months then they require a MRI and will no longer pay for treatments. There theory is the Chiropractor gets only so long to heal the injury. Then it also has to be for life. Talk about one pissed off person.
Thanks to all for your suggestions. I've located a chiro with a good reputation, and I've got an appointment for later today
for an initial exam and xrays.
Just back from my initial chiro visit. Had 2 views x-rayed of my neck, mid-back, and lower back, and I've definitely have alot of Phase 1-Phase 2 misalignment in all three sections . Doctor thinks he can make the corrections over a month or so. But, no weights while I'm being treated, so it looks like I've got to get creative with some low impact type exercises to do in the mean time. Any suggestions?What about ab work? I think I can handle the cardio end with a stationary bike or swimming, but I'm concerned about losing muscle and strength while I'm being treated.
Charger
06-12-2002, 04:35 PM
Can I ask when your next treatment is and has he already given you a adjustment?
I had my first adjustment, plus some muscle/tendon therapy earlier this afternoon. Going for 2-3 sessions like this per week for a month, and then re-evaluate.
MAX MADMAN
06-12-2002, 05:39 PM
Tex:
As far as training, cardio & diet go.........listen to your body and the doc/chiro. My suggestion is to keep protein intake same or increase and drop carbs a bit. Keep the carbs complex and nothing starchy after 6pm. Watch the simple sugars. If you need them for energy, get em in early in the day and not at night.
You'll be OK. Take care and good luck.
sledgehammer956
06-14-2002, 03:05 PM
I went to a chiropractor after pinching some nerves in my back [arching while doing heavy benchpresses,form is everything bros]He made me feel like a million bucks after a couple of sessions. The only thing I didn't like was that they want to make every injury into a workmans comp case which really sucks. My company knows that I workout so try to prove a work related injury when they know that you lift weights!
MAX MADMAN
06-14-2002, 04:59 PM
Sledge:
If your Chiro is trying to call it something that both he and you know is different, go to another chiro.........he's the kind that gives the profession a bad name.......he's only in it for the $$$$ because he thinks the workers comp. system is an endless money bag, you can wind up getting really screwed if found out that you're involved in a fraudulent case, etc.
Why do I know all this........well I'm a very seasoned and experienced Human Resources Director by profession and have fought on the employer side against w.c. claims for too many years. A word to the wise........be careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Charger
06-14-2002, 10:13 PM
I'm with Max here, call a spade a spade. If you hurt it benching, don't help a bad Doc pay for his vacation at your expense. You have nothing to gain.
As for tex, I am suprised it is taking a month to heal your injury??? Did he give you details as to why so long??? I have walked out of a office on a crutch (lower back) and benched two weeks later with my Docs blessing.
sledgehammer956
06-15-2002, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by MAX MADMAN
Sledge:
If your Chiro is trying to call it something that both he and you know is different, go to another chiro.........he's the kind that gives the profession a bad name.......he's only in it for the $$$$ because he thinks the workers comp. system is an endless money bag, you can wind up getting really screwed if found out that you're involved in a fraudulent case, etc.
Why do I know all this........well I'm a very seasoned and experienced Human Resources Director by profession and have fought on the employer side against w.c. claims for too many years. A word to the wise........be careful!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I didn't try to claim a workmans comp injury. What I meant to say was that this dude right away wanted me to say that I hurt myself at work which I told him was total BS. A standing joke at my job is that I'll never be able to claim a workmans comp injury cuz I workout all the time. I no longer go to a chiropractor since I've heard too many bad things about them[no offense to any chiropractors here]
Charger--I guess my chiro thinks it will take treatment over a month or so. I've got 5-6 areas of misalignment on my whole spine. At one point in my back it deviates left of center giving it a kind of serpentine look in the x-ray.
I'm encouraged I'm on the right path to tidying this problem up as I'm already getting some relief from the adjustments. I actually injured my back a couple of times several years ago, and just blew it off, so i'ts possible alot of my problems stem from that.
Charger
06-16-2002, 08:27 AM
Tex,
Sounds like you are on the road to recovery which is the main thing!
I was just wondering why no exercise. My Doc gave me a list of different stretching exercises to do and incouraged me to get back in the gym. This was with the caution not to perform any exercise that pressed down on the spin(squats & deads were out for a while. I could bench but light and with my butt firmly planted(no arching) on the bench, and no back exercises of course but it atleast allowed me to go.
My chiro said no weights and no riding my bike while I'm in treatment. However, I have been doing some exercises where I feel my neck and back aren't vulnerable.--light, light bench press, arm work, some ab work, some leg exercises, stationary bike, and swimming. But for the most part I'm taking it relatively easy- I've only missed a handful of scheduled workouts in the last 6 months, so it actually feels good to take somewhat of a break.
Brian
06-17-2002, 02:50 PM
Gentlemen,
I've read this whole thread with great curiosity for two reasons:
(a) for years now I've noticed a continuous series of joint/back/etc. aches and pains. Some have become like house guests that never leave. One in particular feels like there's a stretched bungee cord that runs from my navel, through the inside of my hip joint just beside my pelvis, and down the inside of my leg to my foot. And a combination of a protracted highly stressful period in my life, self-inflicted personal abuse (didn't want to admit I was too out of shape for mountain climbing and full-contact hockey), and a desk job, lead to lower back problems.
(b) my knowledge of chiropractors has been of stories - from people, the media and doctors - of the horrors of chiropractors. People who've been blinded or crippled from having their neck "snapped" or jerked.
(c) For other injuries like a strained forearm, I've found physiotherapy not too bad, but took forever AND cost a fortune.
So, I'm the skeptical observer who'd like all these glowing accounts of chiropractors to be true, but has such deeply ingrained prejudices against them that I just can't bring myself to take the assurances at face value.
This is a request to those who swear by it: please try to give me convincing arguments.
MAX MADMAN
06-18-2002, 07:42 AM
Brian:
You've convinced me that you're really not open to have your mind changed. And even if you did, your best source of information would be to visit different chiro's and talk to people who've had success. You already know of the failures. Just like the medical profession, there are good and bad docs.....treatments that work and some that don't...cures and disappointments. It's the same with Chiro's.
I respect your opinion and don't give up on it if it's true. As far as your own medical problems, sounds like some pinched nerve activity of sorts going on there. You've got LOTS of options, bro to include living with it. However, just follow your instinct if you want treatment and try to get them resolved through whatever means available to you. There may be a tradeoff between $$$$
spent and time to completely heal. Best of luck, Brian and I really hope you get better soon. Take care.
The condition of your spinal cord is what it is. If you have misalignment, you have misalignment. Misaligned vertebra can certainly pinch nerves. Ouch-- From there it comes down to your treatment options. You can decide to treat the symptoms, or treat the source of the problem. It really comes down to each individual deciding what's best for them. Personally my goal is to
realign my spine to as normal condition as possible (with the curves where they're supposed to be--not so lol)--and so far I'm encouraged I'm on the right path. And the adjustments I have received so far have been absolutely painless, so I find it to be a relatively very safe treatment option.
You might consider getting one set of x-rays and two consults with 2 different chiropractors. Often the initial office consult is free, it's the pictures that cost the $'s.
CBGOKC
06-25-2002, 05:16 PM
Tex,
Let me give you a little different perspective.
I am a (Certified Strengthand Conditioning Specialist)
C.S.C.S and have worked at a spine rehab clinic for ten years. My job is to train people with neck and back and injuries.
Take this for what ever you think its worth.
Spinal Adjustments have a place without a doubt, but, that is a small part of the puzzle. Especially, with recurring problems.
Misalignment is about as vague as legwork.... it's a catchall
Anytime your hands go over your head the pressure on your neck is going way up, if you have damaged discs in your neck this can mean trouble.
Do you get pain around your shoulder blade.. into the arm? If so it's more than misalignment.
The best advice sometimes is the advice we least want to hear...
The best thing you could do, if you must lift heavy overhead is get your neck against a pad, roll a towel put it behind your neck so that it supports the cervical curve, which in turn makes the vertabrae stabilize the discs. It's like wearing belt when you squat heavy.
I know..... All this points to one ugly word >>>>> Machine.
Many of the best bodybuilders will say the shoulders respond better to reps than weight.....follow that line of thinking for your own health!
I don't like it either, but it does not mean it is not true.
Good luck!
CBGOKC,-Thanks for your response--Yeah, this break has given me a chance to re-evaluate my weight lifting program, and decide what's best for me in the long run. I have eliminated military press, and dumbell presses from my routine. On my other lifts I've lowered the resistance and increased the reps. I'm ok with this as I'm reasonably pleased with my current body comp, and I believe my new routine will be sufficient to maintain what I've got.
I've been in treatment for about 2-3 weeks, and had about 7-8 adjustments. What's a reasonable expectation for me to have in correcting my problem areas? I've got Phase 1, Phase 2 misalignment-Thankx
CBGOKC
06-27-2002, 08:02 AM
Phase 1, 2 misalginment is not a standard medical diagnosis so I really don't know what it means.
I am guessing you probably have reversed some of the curvature of your cervical spine and show some narrowing of the discs spaces around C5-6 and C6-7 Everyone else over 30 has this problem too, you just happen to be having some problems and are pushing yourself a little hard maybe. Without an MRI it's really just a crap shoot for anyone trying to give you an exact diagnosis.
Just go a little lighter overhead, best if your neck is supported.
If the pain goes into your arm, back way off and see an M.D.
At some point in the near future I will put a page together with some really excellent stretches for the spine, hips and shoulders that we use for our patients everyday. Good for prevention and maintainence too.
Good Luck
isnerm
01-29-2010, 09:09 PM
Brian,
I am going to be a little biased here because I am a Chiropractor, and there are some very bad ones out there (as in any profession). Be very careful on the stories of people getting there neck twisted and having symptoms as you described. I am not saying it hasn't happend but what I ask is that instead of just going of stories, do a little peer reviewed research into the area.
First, the adjustment (or manipulation) is not unique to Chiropractic. Physical Therapist and Osteopathic doctors also adjust/manipulate. Some of the stories you hear are from those professions not ours. We spend the majority of the last year in school learning when, where, and how to (and when not to) adjust. PT and DO usually get a very short version of that. I am not saying there are not good PT and DO but the adjustment is just not thier "thing". Just like I can do Physiotherapy like a PT but I would rather refer to them for it is their specialty.
There is a risk of stroke with the cervical adjustment but when you look at the research the incident rate was something in the order of 1 case in 3-4 million adjustments. And there is also new research showing that those individuals had a predisposition for the cerebral artery to tear in the first place. There are standard tests that are supposed to be performed prior to the adjustment to help rule out this worry.
There are at least 100 different Chiropractic techniques to mobilize the joints to restore proper biomechanics to the spine. If you do not want your neck "snapped" or "twisted" that is fine. Just find one who doesn't use that technique.
I hope this helps. Again, my advice is to go for peer reviewed scientific articles instead of what your friends have heard about the evils of Chiropractic.
Gentlemen,
I've read this whole thread with great curiosity for two reasons:
(a) for years now I've noticed a continuous series of joint/back/etc. aches and pains. Some have become like house guests that never leave. One in particular feels like there's a stretched bungee cord that runs from my navel, through the inside of my hip joint just beside my pelvis, and down the inside of my leg to my foot. And a combination of a protracted highly stressful period in my life, self-inflicted personal abuse (didn't want to admit I was too out of shape for mountain climbing and full-contact hockey), and a desk job, lead to lower back problems.
(b) my knowledge of chiropractors has been of stories - from people, the media and doctors - of the horrors of chiropractors. People who've been blinded or crippled from having their neck "snapped" or jerked.
(c) For other injuries like a strained forearm, I've found physiotherapy not too bad, but took forever AND cost a fortune.
So, I'm the skeptical observer who'd like all these glowing accounts of chiropractors to be true, but has such deeply ingrained prejudices against them that I just can't bring myself to take the assurances at face value.
This is a request to those who swear by it: please try to give me convincing arguments.
Dain_Bramage
01-29-2010, 09:26 PM
^^ I don't think Brian will respond, he hasn't posted here in 8 years, but good info anyway :p
Oceanside
01-29-2010, 10:43 PM
I was hoping for some feedback
saw a chiropractor twice and both times was a waste of money...
some people swear by them ...
if it was'nt for insurance companys, they probably would'nt exist..
far as I can tell it's a scam !
garthmo
01-29-2010, 11:30 PM
Think they are a good idea to help keep in shape, I see one and he helps with a back issue I have. And he not only does adjustments but also soft tissue work and Ultra Sound. Too bad they have sucha bad rap
rob440
01-30-2010, 06:10 AM
When you get bigger than a normal person things get complicated. In my case, I dont consider myself to be "big" but the exrays never penetrate me on the first try. It usually takes then 2 or 3 shots to get an exray from me. The other thing is that the chiropractor is fighting the strength of a lot more muscle. A few years ago I was getting a back adjustment and the guy had to push so hard it damaged my shoulder. My back still hurts but so does my shoulder now.
kittyboy
01-30-2010, 07:48 AM
Chiropractors mainly dispense placebo. You'll generally get more lasting results from massage therapy, and any serious physiological issues ought to be addressed by a REAL doctor who attended a REAL medical school.
And reviving an 8-year-old thread = fail.
Dain_Bramage
01-30-2010, 09:52 AM
Chiropractors mainly dispense placebo. You'll generally get more lasting results from massage therapy, and any serious physiological issues ought to be addressed by a REAL doctor who attended a REAL medical school.
And reviving an 8-year-old thread = fail.
My infant girl was very colicky. Cried all the time and was always holding her head to one side and up. On the suggestion of our Mid wife we took her to a Chiropractor. She was 2.5-3 months old at the time. He determined that there was an alignment issue in here neck where it meets the spine. He made an adjustment.
The effects were instant, she stopped favoring one side, she stopped crying as much. Overall she was much happier and slept better.
After a few weeks symptoms returned, took her back and she was better. We had one more treatment after that and she was good to go.
That is one hell of a placebo effect on a 3 month old infant.
He suggested that many babies have misalignment's and it can be a reason a baby is colicky but most people would never consider a chiropractor. I can't say one way or the other but I know it worked in our case.
BTW the real doctor who went to a real medical school told us there was nothing you can do for a colicky baby.
kittyboy
01-30-2010, 10:21 AM
My infant girl was very colicky. Cried all the time and was always holding her head to one side and up. On the suggestion of our Mid wife we took her to a Chiropractor. She was 2.5-3 months old at the time. He determined that there was an alignment issue in here neck where it meets the spine. He made an adjustment.
The effects were instant, she stopped favoring one side, she stopped crying as much. Overall she was much happier and slept better.
After a few weeks symptoms returned, took her back and she was better. We had one more treatment after that and she was good to go.
That is one hell of a placebo effect on a 3 month old infant.
He suggested that many babies have misalignment's and it can be a reason a baby is colicky but most people would never consider a chiropractor. I can't say one way or the other but I know it worked in our case.
BTW the real doctor who went to a real medical school told us there was nothing you can do for a colicky baby.
I did use the word "mainly" as a qualifier. As a counter to your example, my best friend saw a chiropractor for years for treatment of a hernia. My buddy kept going back because he felt better after his "treatment." Ultimately, however, the chiro fixed absolutely nothing, and the hernia was repaired via surgery. By a real doctor.
I'd love to read some peer-reviewed studies showing the efficacy of chiropractic. By peer-reviewed, I mean medical journals, not studies propounded by chiropractors themselves. But these studies don't exist. I'm strongly skeptical of claims which cannot be backed up with science, and with chiropractic, there just isn't any science. There are loads of anecdotes, though. But people have first-hand stories of voodoo, alien abductions and Bigfoot, too.
I'm glad your daughter recovered. But I doubt the chiropractor had anything to do with it.
Dain_Bramage
01-30-2010, 11:50 AM
I'm glad your daughter recovered. But I doubt the chiropractor had anything to do with it.
I can never change your mind. If a chiropractor doesn't work for someone you will say I told you so and if it does you will say it's coincidence or placebo. All I can say is it directly affected my daughters behavior right away on 3 separate occasions. It wasn't coincidence or placebo. It's kind of insulting that you would tell me it had nothing to do with it when you have no idea of the situation.
Stenn
01-30-2010, 12:02 PM
Brian,
I am going to be a little biased here because I am a Chiropractor... <advertisement for chiropractors deleted>
You seem to have punched "Chiropractor" into the search field and are responding to any and all threads about chiropractors no matter how old they are. This thread died a peaceful death almost eight years ago till you resurrected it. If you want to talk about chiropractors with people who are still members of the forum, you should start a new thread.
AKMass
01-30-2010, 12:29 PM
Chiropractic is a useful tool for keeping things tuned up and/or fixing them if need be IMO.
Years ago I injured my lower back at work. I went to the chiropractor and he wanted to put me on a schedule for like six weeks, three visits a week, to fix it. I asked him if I could do squats and deadlifts and got an adamant "no!"
The next time in the gym, I tried some squats anyway. My first set, I had an "oh ****" moment when I went down and heard and felt a loud pop in my lower back. I racked the weight but felt no pain. In fact, things felt better. It seems the strong activation of my erectors pushed whatever was out of alignment in my lower back, back to proper position. I didn't even bother going back to the chiropractor after that.
I've had other problems fixed over the years by chiropractors. I don't consider them to be of no use.
kittyboy
01-30-2010, 12:51 PM
I can never change your mind. If a chiropractor doesn't work for someone you will say I told you so and if it does you will say it's coincidence or placebo. All I can say is it directly affected my daughters behavior right away on 3 separate occasions. It wasn't coincidence or placebo. It's kind of insulting that you would tell me it had nothing to do with it when you have no idea of the situation.
Au contrare. You can convince me with scientific studies. If chiropractic were so good at fixing broken people, there'd be loads of science to support it. But there isn't.
filipino_muscle
01-30-2010, 10:47 PM
Think they are a good idea to help keep in shape, I see one and he helps with a back issue I have. And he not only does adjustments but also soft tissue work and Ultra Sound. Too bad they have sucha bad rap
You have to 'shop' for one that works for you. I've had to switch once because this dude could not 'adjust' my SI joint. It's all leverage and technique, too. I had a female chiropractic who was a hundred and change and able to crack me.
filipino_muscle
01-30-2010, 10:50 PM
Au contrare. You can convince me with scientific studies. If chiropractic were so good at fixing broken people, there'd be loads of science to support it. But there isn't.
That's for doctors who want the $$$ to slice you open and repair what is broken.
Chiropractic is all about re-aligning or reinstituting the arrangement of the ligaments, tendons, bones, and muscles. One of those things is out of place enough, it disrupts everything near it.
If MD's can't have their $$$, then they just write you a Rx for heavier does of ibuprofen and tell you to 'rest'.