Step By Step Keto Diet Plan!

[Blindfaith]

The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss

In recent media, low carbohydrate diets have been THE fad for almost everybody in America wanting to lose weight. From your secretaries, elementary school teachers, and desk clerks, to bodybuilders, models, actresses, and athletes.

However, there is a huge difference between those who follow an Atkins plan and those who follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). Atkins is a low carb plan for those who are quite sedentary, walk maybe 3 times a week at the most, and just follow normal everyday activities. So forget Atkins here. The CKD is for those who’s main concern is true fat loss and muscle preservation—muscle for sports and high intensity activities.

My opinion for those who practice Atkins is that while they do lose fat, there is much water loss and most importantly muscle loss. Something we athletes do not want. A CKD is a true fat loss diet that works undeniably, if followed properly and strictly. Yes, low carb diets can be hell at first, but after two to three weeks, there have been anecdotal reports from many dieters that the cravings for carbohydrates decrease. This route to fat burning is unlike any traditional diet all the low-fat diet authors and FDA people have been advocating in history.

I got turned onto this diet a few years back when I got tired of cutting fat and still not being able to lose those last percentage points of bodyfat without losing hard earned muscle. I would start a low-fat diet, and be a either a social misfit (not going out with my friends to party or not going out to eat). Or in the worse case, feel so deprived of delicious junk foods I missed and bail out on the diet all together. One advantage to this diet is that there is no true restrictions on food. One may eat anything labeled a "food"! Well, almost. I’ll explain later.

How the diet works.

The science behind the CKD is simple. Carbohydrates in the diet cause an insulin (a "storage" hormone) output in the pancreas. It is used to store glycogen, amino acids into muscles, while causing excess calories to be stored as fat. So common sense asks me, "How can one try to break down fat, when your body is in a storage-type mode?" Difficult to do, indeed. That is why it makes perfect sense for step one to be cutting carbs.

The next thing that happens in your body is the rise in catecholamines (a "fat mobilizing" hormone), cortisol (a "breakdown" hormone), and growth hormone. Now your body realizes there’s no more carbs to burn for energy, so it must find another energy source: fat.

This usually happens during a metabolic condition called "ketosis." This is when your liver is out of glycogen and starts to produce ketones (by-products of fatty acids). You can check your status of whether or not you are in ketosis with urinalysis strips you can pick up at any local drug store called "Ketostix." Just urinate and see if it turns color. If so, you have ketones in the urine.

When the body is fed fat and protein, it will use dietary fat along with bodyfat for energy with protein going towards repair.

As a side note, there is another reason why this diet makes the most sense to use while keeping muscle. When one follows a high carbohydrate, low-fat, reduced-calorie diet, there’s a point when some bodyfat is burned, but when the body is still in a carbohydrate burning metabolism while trying to lose "weight," it will strip down precious body protein to convert to glucose for energy.

On the other hand, during fat metabolism, protein cannot be converted into free-fatty acids for energy. Although there is no scientific research done on this, there have been reports from followers that there truly is a "protein-sparing" effect. It makes sense doesn’t it? Where else would the body look for fat energy when all dietary fat is burned? Bodyfat.

Diet Requirements Mon. to Fri.

The phrase "working smarter, not harder" applies here more than any diet one has tried. One must fully understand what they must do in order to optimize their goal. To set a CKD up, one cannot just expect to cut all carbs in the diet, train hard, and lose fat! Although some have come up with variations to this plan, the one stated in this article, I have found, has worked for myself (it got me to 6% BF), and other clients I’ve trained to the leanest, hardest they’ve ever been.

First, to set up the diet, write down your lean mass weight. Not your total weight, dough boy. If you weigh 200, but have 20% bodyfat, your lean mass weight would be around 160 pounds. Multiply this by one, getting your grams of protein requirements for a day. Make sure you eat at least one gram of protein/pound of lean mass! This is important in recovery from workouts and enough nitrogen retention to keep muscle. Next, multiply by four, to get your protein calories. Here, it is 640.

The rest of your caloric requirements for the day should be fat. Here is the catch: you must eat fat to burn fat. There’s no way around it. There are many advantages to dietary fat on this diet: Feeling of fullness since fat digestion is slow (less hunger), tastes great, and lowers blood glucose levels (lowering insulin and allow all the fat burning hormones to do their job).

So how much fat? I always recommend starting out with a 500 calorie deficit from your maintenance calories. If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.

2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.

The Weekend Carb Load

Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won’t happen on the CKD.

Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.

Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday. Now the next important issue to address is how many carbs. Some lucky individuals find that they eat whatever they want for the 24-30 hour time interval and receive perfect glycogen compensation, while others rely on a better statistical number.

What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.

100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.

A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.

So what about dietary fat? I know you’re reminding yourself, "Didn’t this guy mention pizza?" Yes, I did. And here’s why. During the first 24-30 hours of carbing up, the body will use all dietary carbohydrates to refill glycogen, protein for rebuilding, and get this: fat for energy. Still?

Just like the previous five and a half days. Makes sense. When all the carbohydrates are being used for more important functions (muscle), what else is there to be used? However, you can’t just eat all the fat you want. Keep grams of fat intake below your body weight in kilograms. Again, here our example will keep is fat below 73 during the carb-fest.

By anecdotal reports, this should keep fat regain minimal to nil. Keeping fat intake extremely low has even caused some extra fat burning during the carb up!

As stated before, some dietary fat should be eaten to slow digestion and keep sugar levels stable. Whether it be saturated, unsaturated, or essential fats, is the dieter’s decision. All have nine calories per gram. (Note: there is a claim that essential fatty acids such as flax seed oil increase insulin sensitivity within the muscle cells, in turn, increasing glycogen intake.)

In Case You Missed It

So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.

Some have found to enjoy a protein shake afterwards because they are easily digested. Do whatever works for you. But fat is not logical since you want the protein to fuel the healing process as quickly as possible and fat will only slow it down.

Friday afternoon, around two hours before your last workout of the week, eat two to three pieces of fruit. This will get your body/liver ready to start the carb loading and give you some energy for that final, dreadful workout (trust me, during the first few weeks, you will not want to do that final workout, but you must). Then from Friday night until Saturday at midnight or until bed, eat those carbs!

[Blindfaith]

HERE IS THE REST OF THE ARTICLE


CKD Workout

Now, the question is, how do we workout to optimize muscle preservation and keep our metabolism up while dieting? Before we get into that, one must realize that during any dieting scheme there is one thing that must be done, and one thing that must not be done.

First, you must keep training volume lower than your usual routine. Overtraining is probably the number one killer in motivation, it deprives sleep, and hinders fat loss.

Second, you must not fall into the myth of lighter weights with higher reps. You got your muscle by benching 240, and you have to bench 240 to keep that same muscle! Or at least around that area! Okay, now that we have that established, here’s what we do:

On Monday and Tuesday we will work our weaker body parts, rest or cardio on Wednesday and Thursday mornings, Thursday do our strongest body parts, and Friday a combination of the Monday/Tuesday workouts in a loop format. The workout I have found to work optimally for myself and my clients is this:

(Note: You may feel free to tweak, shake, and turn this example upside down.

Everybody is different, so find what works for you.)

MONDAY: Chest, Back, Abs

High intensity workouts with 60 sec rest between sets, 90 sec rest between

each exercise

(this excludes all warm up sets)

Bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

T-bar Row 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Incline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Latpulldown to front 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Dips or Decline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Shrugs 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Flys (any type) 2 sets, 10-12 reps

Reverse flys 2 sets, 10-12 reps

Stiff-leg deadlift 3 sets, 10-12 reps

Rope ab crunch 3 sets, 10-15 reps

Reverse crunch 3 sets, 10-20 reps

TUESDAY: Shoulders, Arms

Same intensity mentioned before

Behind the neck shoulder press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Military press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Preacher curls 3 sets, 8-10 reps

French press or "skull-crushers" 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Shoulder raises (any type) 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Hammers 3 sets, 8-10 reps

V-bar tricep press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Reverse forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Wednesday: Rest or Cardio

Thursday morning: Rest or Cardio

Later on Thursday: Legs

Same intensity mentioned before

Squat or Leg press 4 sets, 6-10 reps

Lying leg curl 4 sets, 6-10 reps

Standing calf raise 4 sets 6-10 reps

Leg extensions 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Seated leg curl 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Seated calf raise 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Friday night: Final Workout

Same intensity mentioned before

Bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps

T-bar Row 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Incline bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Latpulldown to front 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Behind the neck shoulder press 1 set, 8-10 reps

Military press 1 set, 8-10 reps

Either curl exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Either tricep exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Stiffleg deadift 1 set, 8-10 reps

Normal floor ab crunch 2 sets, 10-20 reps

Reverse crunches 2 sets, 10-20 reps

Start the carb up for 24-30 hours!


Aerobics

Before we go on, I want to address the cardio/aerobics issue. Some people find that for the first month on a CKD, cardio/aerobics is not needed. However when fat loss does start to slow down a bit, that is when most start adding 30 min. sessions on their off days. Be careful though, you do not want to hinder your Thursday leg workout. So experiment and try to only add aerobic sessions if you feel you have to.

Supplements

So we have the basic diet outline stated, the workout, now what about supplements? Things that can extremely optimize this diet regime. Well, I have to admit no allegiance to any supplement company on this one: Water. Water is important on any diet, especially low carb since there is a diuretic effect, and more importantly during the carbing period. Glycogen is stored with water! You need as much water as possible to hydrate the depleted muscle. Trust me, you will feel a huge "pump" on Sunday morning from all the stored carbs and water INSIDE your muscle.

Speaking of muscle, the god of all sports supplement right now: Creatine. It can still be used on a low carb diet. Usually 10 grams a day during the low carb days, and around 20-30 grams during the carbing period should work for most everybody. I highly recommend it for everybody who doesn’t get an upset stomach using it.

Finally, one that everyone that’s dieted before knows about: The ECA stack. Most have not used pure ECA, but mainly herbal extracts in thermogenic products sold by sports supplement companies. For a pre-work out boost and increased fat burning through thermogenics (heat), this is my favorite supplement. It does its job, you feel it happening, and it can help you psychologically when you don’t feel like working out that day.

Conclusion

With all this said, I will throw my personal opinion, thanks and motivation on or for the cyclical ketogenic diet. First of all, to me, it is the greatest diet every developed. It makes sense, works and isn’t as hard to follow as one might think. Just stay motivated and concentrate on your goal.

When you have a craving during the week for that cupcake or pasta, just go eat a delicious serving of some pepperoni and melted mozzarella cheese. Or how about a hamburger patty covered in cheddar cheese and some strips of bacon? Foods that are delicious and that can satiate hunger.

I followed this exact plan this past summer for eight weeks and loss 18 pounds of fat without any loss in muscle. It was the leanest and most vascular I had ever seen myself.

And I must give thanks where thanks are due since I did not come up with this diet. Dan Duchaine, who recently passed away, brought my attention to a CKD with his book BodyOpus and Lyle McDonald has done deep research and wrote his book The Ketogenic Diet: A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner.

This diet can be for you. Oh you’re only a mass builder? Well, lower bodyfat percentages even make you look bigger! Give it some thought and decide. Then achieve your goal. It’s worth it: A diet with true fat loss.

COMPLIMENTS OF KAKDIESEL FROM ELITE


HOPE THIS HELPS OUT ALL YOU BRO'S WITH ENDLESS AMOUNTS OF QUESTOINS! PEACE!

[daniel2166]

Holy shnickeys.

Man, I can't bring myself to start a keto diet. It just seems so bloody unnatural... I know it works but it's scary in a way. :(

[Blindfaith]

what is it about that diet that troubles you???

[daniel2166]

Originally posted by Blindfaith
what is it about that diet that troubles you???

Eating so much fat... And I see a lot of typical keto diets where people are eating lots of sausage, etc and I get worried about saturated fat intake and LDL rocketing up. Maybe it's just part of my conditioning from the uninformed to hate fat...

[daniel2166]

Would be it possible to do something like this:

Meal 1:
2 eggs, 8oz skim, 1 tblsp olive oil

Meal 2:
4oz chicken breast, pepperoni stick, 1tblsp olive oil, salad

Meal 3:
2 pepperoni sticks, 1 tin tuna, 1tblsp olive oil

Meal 4:
1 6oz steak, 1 tblsp olive oil, salad

Meal 5: Cheddar cheese, 8oz skim, 1tblsp olive oil

I figure that's about 200p, 120f, 30c or so... Is that a good example of a keto diet?

[Blindfaith]

Originally posted by daniel2166


Eating so much fat... And I see a lot of typical keto diets where people are eating lots of sausage, etc and I get worried about saturated fat intake and LDL rocketing up. Maybe it's just part of my conditioning from the uninformed to hate fat...

i know exactly what you mean....studies have shown that this diet is not harmful if done right....i dont agree with the Atkins diet because too much muscle is wasted on it....and too long in ketosis isnt good for you either.....ketones are toxic to the brain...thats why u feel retarted when doing the atkins diet.

It is a really boring diet...eggs, bacon, steak etc....but it is something that will get you the results that you need!

[Blindfaith]

here is a sweet link!!! Check it out!

http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/

[daniel2166]

Can you get dietary fat from oils?

[Blindfaith]

flax would be your best bet for omega3 fatty acids

[Blindfaith]

stay away from milk, and any vegitable with seeds in it

[daniel2166]

I eat lots of salmon so omega-3s aren't a problem...

I'm thinking of eating a greens salad w/ a few of the meals to keep the diet healthier. W/ a tablespoon of olive oil on it and such.

[Blindfaith]

the extra oil is welcome....you need lots of fat in your diet

[daniel2166]

I figure I'll be eating 3-4 little salads made of stuff like cucumber, lettuce, brocoli and cauliflower throughout the day. I'm gonna be cutting out all carbs except the carbs in these salads.

This a good idea? I figure several little salads will add up to 30g carbs, right?

And I'm also taking glutamine.

[CyberGod]

very good article, but I will add my opinion.

I believe you should get a cabr/protein shake after EACH workout
I think you could eat low GI veggies during the week (in moderation)

Supplements: I would love to see glutamine and ALA before any ECA stack.

[Blindfaith]

that carb or protein drink could put u out of ketosis....which is a no no!

[princessbigman]

ketosis is not needed the whole basis is to lower insulin until after workout which then a insulin spike is needed to shuttle nutrition into muscle cells

i think you guys should get a book or 3
The Ketogenic Diet - Lyle McDonald
UnderGround BodyOpus- Dan Duchaine
The Metabolic Diet - Dr. Mauro DiPasquale


www.theketogenicdiet.com
www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/
www.metabolicdiet.com


also i have read alot of articles where people say that you dont have to have ketones on the ketosticks for you do be using fat for fuel so if anyone is striving to see ketones stop as long as you get under 100 carbs a day (and are exercising regularly) you should be fine now fitnessman splits the carbs up a good way after the workout they take in i think 30-50 carbs in a shake with 30 grams of WHEY protein you can also put creatine in the shake he gets good results with this and he also has clients of his practicing this they get good results as well

[daniel2166]

It's easier to just eat next to no carbs than count a smaller amount.

I wanna see what my father says after I've lost 20 pounds and I tell him I ate bacon, peanut butter and mayo everyday. lol

That article says you need to eat 1.5g of fat for every gram of protein+carb combined. Every keto diet I've seen on this site hasn't been like this.

[Blindfaith]

this diet is a little different...but still a keto diet....it just makes sure that u dont lose any muscle

[Stomper]

Good info, thanks!! :)
If I wanted to add ALA, when should I take it?? Maybe taking ALA with a protein and carb shake after training would keep you out of ketosis??

[Blindfaith]

just take ala how you would normally take it.....i take it with my meals

[hooty mcboobs]

Originally posted by daniel2166
Holy shnickeys.

Man, I can't bring myself to start a keto diet. It just seems so bloody unnatural... I know it works but it's scary in a way. :(

That's funny, because for 99 000 years (give or take a few) we've relied on fats and protein as predominant energy sources, with seasonal berries and roots as a minor source. Only 1000 years ago or somewhere around there have we begun to eat grains and develop a harder agricultural lifestyle. Anthropologists have said that it takes around 400 generations to fully adapt to dietary changes so severe. Yay, only 7000 more years to go!

Also, CyberGod was right on the money with the protein/carb postworkout shake. fitnessman has said that it doesn't throw one out of ketosis since they are used for glycogen and protein synthesis immediately, as opposed to filling energy requirements. I've veried this to be true using ketostix.

[Nutz]

:bump:

so is anybody trying this, im seriously thinking of giving it a go..

[fitnessman]

I will add one thing. The post training shake is a must. 30g whey and 30g juice. This will NOT take you out of ketosis.

The benefits I have stated over and over. Do not skip the shake!

Think I will make this a sticky.

[BurritoJimmy]

I have found that being on a ketotic diet is much better for fat loss than being on a low carb diet. 0 carbs is definitely the way to go. Here is some more of what I have found works really well.
Instead of working out all through the week, do a full body workout at the end of the carb up and have a post workout meal with carbs after that workout. Do as much low intensity cardio, ie walking, as you can. I would do low intensity as much as 4 hours a day. Drink a ton of water. Eat a lot of vegetables that only have fiber as their carbs. Don't eat unless you are hungry. Keep protein intake fairly low at around 0.8 g/lb bw. Saturated fats are okay, but unsaturated seem to work better. Lastly do not worry about losing too fast. If the loss comes mostly from low intensity activity rather than dropping calories then you can achieve phenomenal losses in fat.

[chrisg]

Originally posted by fitnessman
I will add one thing. The post training shake is a must. 30g whey and 30g juice. This will NOT take you out of ketosis.

The benefits I have stated over and over. Do not skip the shake!

Think I will make this a sticky.

Hey fitnessman!!!

Just a question bout the juice, I've read that fructose (which is what I'm guessing is in juice) is used to refil liver glycogen and not skeletal muscle. Is this right, or am I just talking ****!!! :)

[chrisg]

Originally posted by BurritoJimmy
I have found that being on a ketotic diet is much better for fat loss than being on a low carb diet. 0 carbs is definitely the way to go. Here is some more of what I have found works really well.
Instead of working out all through the week, do a full body workout at the end of the carb up and have a post workout meal with carbs after that workout. Do as much low intensity cardio, ie walking, as you can. I would do low intensity as much as 4 hours a day. Drink a ton of water. Eat a lot of vegetables that only have fiber as their carbs. Don't eat unless you are hungry. Keep protein intake fairly low at around 0.8 g/lb bw. Saturated fats are okay, but unsaturated seem to work better. Lastly do not worry about losing too fast. If the loss comes mostly from low intensity activity rather than dropping calories then you can achieve phenomenal losses in fat.

Jimmy, 4 hours is not enough!!! You should aim for at least 6 hours a day, more if you can!!! You should also try to include sex for at least 2 hours a day as cardio. If you can't just try to simulate it upon waking and before sleep!!! LMAO!!!

Keep em coming jimmy!!!

[fitnessman]

chrisg that is correct.

I am a big fan of protein Power Lifesplan by the Eades doctors...A must read I feel.

[chrisg]

Originally posted by fitnessman
chrisg that is correct.

I am a big fan of protein Power Lifesplan by the Eades doctors...A must read I feel.

so how come we want to fill our liver? I thought you'd want to fill our muscles first, as they need it more and you'd be able to deplete from your muscles faster???

[The Greg]

(questions were answered)

[chrisg]

Originally posted by The Greg


Semi-Question:
are you serious? 6 hours a day?

nah dude, I was just having some fun with BurritoJimmy, he's like the class clown of the forums...

[FU MAN CHU]

You know...ive been trying to lose fat for almost 9 months...i lost a remarkable amount of wight, and my bf% went from 51% weighing 275 - 22%weighing 200. I had a couple cases of dehydration and kidney stones present at the time of losing weight...i believe that it was my diet that affected me the most...if i had a set diet such as jeto during that 9 months...i wouldve been maybe 15 pounds heavier of solid muscle with about a 16% bf...butthings cant ork out the way you want sometimes...

i believe in this deit but i feel that i am not dedicated enough wen it comes to dieting because i feel i am following it wrong...but i am afraid to try the keto diet...all i want to do is gt my bf down to twelve... and i found out why im stuck...it is my diet

[Blindfaith]

Originally posted by FU MAN CHU
You know...ive been trying to lose fat for almost 9 months...i lost a remarkable amount of wight, and my bf% went from 51% weighing 275 - 22%weighing 200. I had a couple cases of dehydration and kidney stones present at the time of losing weight...i believe that it was my diet that affected me the most...if i had a set diet such as jeto during that 9 months...i wouldve been maybe 15 pounds heavier of solid muscle with about a 16% bf...butthings cant ork out the way you want sometimes...

i believe in this deit but i feel that i am not dedicated enough wen it comes to dieting because i feel i am following it wrong...but i am afraid to try the keto diet...all i want to do is gt my bf down to twelve... and i found out why im stuck...it is my diet

just take it one day at a time bro....just read over the diet and make sure what its all about.....if u think that it is for you than do it...its not for everyone.

But keep up the good work....losing that much weight is awesome! Whatever you do...dont stop exercising!

[DiSizG]

HOW LONG TO STAY ON THIS DIET AND HOW DO I GET OUT OF KETOSIS WITHOUT PUTTING ON FAT ?

[The Greg]

I am not an expert but some people (fitnessman) use this diet year round, and just eat a buncha carbs (like 50g or more) and that'll kick you out of Ketosis...

P.S.! i just started my keto diet today :) yay i cant beleive it :) actually i feel really groggy but lol thats prolly from yesterday :) and OMG www.Fitday.com <-- perfect for calc'ing your foods and what not, it does it all for you!!

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by daniel2166


Eating so much fat... And I see a lot of typical keto diets where people are eating lots of sausage, etc and I get worried about saturated fat intake and LDL rocketing up. Maybe it's just part of my conditioning from the uninformed to hate fat...

Don't worry about it, I've done low-carb (Atkins) for ten months, dropped 70 lbs and from 33% to 17% (by tanita scales). A quick reckon says 51lbs fat, 19lbs muscle. And yet I definitely look a *lot* larger.

I had my annual health mot and my blood pressure and cholesterol were both better than last years figures.

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by Blindfaith


i know exactly what you mean....studies have shown that this diet is not harmful if done right....i dont agree with the Atkins diet because too much muscle is wasted on it....and too long in ketosis isnt good for you either.....ketones are toxic to the brain...thats why u feel retarted when doing the atkins diet.

It is a really boring diet...eggs, bacon, steak etc....but it is something that will get you the results that you need!

I have done Atkins for 10 months. By my scales (tanita) I have lost 51lbs fat/19lbs muscle, yet I look a lot bigger and I am considerably stronger.

Ketones toxic? Do you have any science to back that up that I can go look at for myself?

As for boring, you just described the Atkins diet basically :-)

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by princessbigman
ketosis is not needed the whole basis is to lower insulin until after workout which then a insulin spike is needed to shuttle nutrition into muscle cells

[snip]

also i have read alot of articles where people say that you dont have to have ketones on the ketosticks for you do be using fat for fuel so if anyone is striving to see ketones stop as long as you get under 100 carbs a day (and are exercising regularly) you should be fine now fitnessman splits the carbs up a good way after the workout they take in i think 30-50 carbs in a shake with 30 grams of WHEY protein you can also put creatine in the shake he gets good results with this and he also has clients of his practicing this they get good results as well

The whole point is to switch the body to burning fat for fuel and to do that you definitely do need to be in ketosis. For most people 100g of carbs a day ain't gonna do that.

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by daniel2166
It's easier to just eat next to no carbs than count a smaller amount.

I wanna see what my father says after I've lost 20 pounds and I tell him I ate bacon, peanut butter and mayo everyday. lol

That article says you need to eat 1.5g of fat for every gram of protein+carb combined. Every keto diet I've seen on this site hasn't been like this.

If you go look at the Atkins diet (http://www.atkinscenter.com) the *only* thing you count is carbs, other than that if you're hungry eat. Obviously with trying to maintain/gain muscle you want a lot of what you eat to be protein...

[Tunahaji]

i have just a few questions to clarify. i'd call what i'm currently doing a "low-carb" diet. i drink milk with my protein shakes. and i might eat some high fiber veggies. is the state of ketosis something that takes several days to achieve with ZERO carbs in your system - thus the week cycle. or is ketosis a state that varies (from zero carbs to a low amount of carbs) and that can be entered quite quickly - say as soon as the carbs in your system are burned up. i'm pretty big and at 13% bf, so my cutting phase isn't an emergency of weight loss. is it sort of "all or nothing" where if i don't follow the strict keto diet with zero milk during the week and then the loading phase i'm getting no results.....or is it just that this is the MOST effective low carb/no carb diet but that lowering your carbs drastically in general also produces results.

[adonis]

it sounds very viable, especially with the weekend carbup

I am skeptical about the mass consumption of saturated fats...

my dad had a stroke some time ago and its not something I would like to experience (I doubt I will as I am very active and he was sedentary)

[adonis]

I am seriously gonna give this diet a shot
how does this sound:

Meal 1
30g Egg White Protein
15ml EFA Oil

Meal 2
200g Chicken Breast
15ml EFA Oil

Meal 3
200g Chicken Breast
1 Avocado

Meal 4
Post workout
30g Whey
30g Dextrose

Meal 5
200g Chicken Breast
15ml EFA Oil

Meal 6
30g Egg White Protein
15ml EFA Oil

i'll work out proper weight totals etc asap

[brooklyn mike]

wait i wanna try this but i can i just start or do i have to work into it. and should i have 30 grams of carbs after every work out. should i do that carb loading say on friday or would i not do it becasue im taking carbs after every workout?...

[brooklyn mike]

should i take my daily creatine with my post workout shake?...

[brooklyn mike]

would this be a good meal supplement while on keto it contains high fat....


20% MCT 60%
20% YOLK
20% Ion exchange whey isolate
20% Soy XT
20% Isoflax

Serving Size 80 grams 1 cup (Servings per pound, 6)
Protein 30 grams
Carbs 15 grams
Fat 24 grams

Calories 400

PRICE $6.97 per pound

[brooklyn mike]

i dont understand should there or should there not be carbs in my post work out shake?...

eat very little carbs all week and then on fridaynight till saturday midnight eat alot of carbs all day.?.. is this right?...what about before a work out and after?...

[RHINO]

Seems to me that if you have a post workout drink with carbs, which is used to replenish muscle glycogen, you wouldn't need the carb up on the weekend, since your muscle glycogen wouldn't need to be replenished. You could just stick with zero carbs throughout the whole diet (excluding the post workout drink of ~30 g. carbs). I think it would be beneficial to cut out the carb up period; I was on a CKD for about 3 months; I followed it very strictly and lost some fat, but I definitely feel that the weekend carb-ups limited my fat loss.

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is that if you do a keto diet, you NEED a fiber supplement or you will be in pain. It's absolutely necessary. Konsyl brand works the best because it has practically zero digestable carbs, whereas Metamucil and other brands have carbs. It's a bit expensive, but it is definitely worth it.

[brooklyn mike]

can u gain alot of mass while on a keto diet....

[brooklyn mike]

i wanna try keto and i know every one says it works i just feel so dirty eating like that i feel like not healthy but then again ive always stuglled with my weight and ive never looked cut in my life even when i dieted and weighed 140 pounds....can u eat any veggtables...and should u try to stay away from fried stiff or what?...

[brooklyn mike]

ALSO SORRY I FORGOT HOW MUCH DO THINK KETO WILL RAISE UR TEST LEVELS BECASUE I SAW SOME ONE MENTION THAT...

[brooklyn mike]

is keto dangerous my grl freind was telling me that keto can be daingerous is that true are there any cases of people getting sick and aslo am i gonna loose all my energy when on keto...

[DIABLO]

I have a question about this diet. Would it be safe to combine this diet with a suppliment such as Xenadrine (either form of) to help speed up the fat loss?

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by Tunahaji
i have just a few questions to clarify. i'd call what i'm currently doing a "low-carb" diet. i drink milk with my protein shakes. and i might eat some high fiber veggies. is the state of ketosis something that takes several days to achieve with ZERO carbs in your system - thus the week cycle. or is ketosis a state that varies (from zero carbs to a low amount of carbs) and that can be entered quite quickly - say as soon as the carbs in your system are burned up. i'm pretty big and at 13% bf, so my cutting phase isn't an emergency of weight loss. is it sort of "all or nothing" where if i don't follow the strict keto diet with zero milk during the week and then the loading phase i'm getting no results.....or is it just that this is the MOST effective low carb/no carb diet but that lowering your carbs drastically in general also produces results.

To get into Ketosis you need 48hrs+ with almost no carbs (< 15g or so per day). Takes that long to empty the body stores. Why not just junk the milk? 13% ain't so bad, I'm stuck at 17%

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by adonis
it sounds very viable, especially with the weekend carbup

I am skeptical about the mass consumption of saturated fats...

my dad had a stroke some time ago and its not something I would like to experience (I doubt I will as I am very active and he was sedentary)

I wouldn't worry about it, don't let the establishment brainwash you with their high-carb/low-fat mantra. Have a quick stop by http://www.atkinscenter.com and check out teh article from the New York Times "A Big Fat Lie"

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by adonis
I am seriously gonna give this diet a shot
how does this sound:

[snip]

i'll work out proper weight totals etc asap

Why just egg-white? The yolk is almost the perfect food source...sure it contains 10g of fat and some cholesterol, but your wasting the best part. honest.

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by RHINO
Seems to me that if you have a post workout drink with carbs, which is used to replenish muscle glycogen, you wouldn't need the carb up on the weekend, since your muscle glycogen wouldn't need to be replenished. You could just stick with zero carbs throughout the whole diet (excluding the post workout drink of ~30 g. carbs). I think it would be beneficial to cut out the carb up period; I was on a CKD for about 3 months; I followed it very strictly and lost some fat, but I definitely feel that the weekend carb-ups limited my fat loss.

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is that if you do a keto diet, you NEED a fiber supplement or you will be in pain. It's absolutely necessary. Konsyl brand works the best because it has practically zero digestable carbs, whereas Metamucil and other brands have carbs. It's a bit expensive, but it is definitely worth it.

1. Post workout, protein only (as close as possible anyway).
2. The whole point is to empty the body stores of glycogen and switch into fat burning during the week.
3. The weekend is to refill the stores tp pervent muscle being burnt off.
4. cut out the carb up if you want, you just stay in ketosis all the time. I did that for 9 months, lost 51lbs of fat (hooray), but by my body-scales (Tanita, fat measuring) I also lost 19lbs muscle.

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by brooklyn mike
i wanna try keto and i know every one says it works i just feel so dirty eating like that i feel like not healthy but then again ive always stuglled with my weight and ive never looked cut in my life even when i dieted and weighed 140 pounds....can u eat any veggtables...and should u try to stay away from fried stiff or what?...

You've been brainwashed by the establishment that fat is bad for you. We have evovled to eat meat, fish etc as the main source of food. It is only the last hundred years or so that sugar, refined carbs (white flour etc) came along. Also in the last hundred years things like diabetes, heart disease, heart attacks have become major killers. Coincidence?

Any dark green vegetables are ok - stuff like brocolli, kale etc.

Fry whatever you like, good way to get more fat..

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by brooklyn mike
is keto dangerous my grl freind was telling me that keto can be daingerous is that true are there any cases of people getting sick and aslo am i gonna loose all my energy when on keto...

You are thinking of ketoacidosis that diabetics experience, *that* is bad for you, this type of ketosis isn't. Stop by http://www.atkinscenter.com and read up about it or check out your local Barnes & Noble in the dietary section.

You will find you have far *more* energy....

[hokkers999]

Originally posted by DIABLO
I have a question about this diet. Would it be safe to combine this diet with a suppliment such as Xenadrine (either form of) to help speed up the fat loss?

I'm doing both...still here to tell the tale ;-)

[DIABLO]

Originally posted by hokkers999


I'm doing both...still here to tell the tale ;-)
....LOL.... Thanks.

[brooklyn mike]

what supplements should i take..like should i still take flax oil and shouls i start a eca..

[Blindfaith]

Originally posted by brooklyn mike
what supplements should i take..like should i still take flax oil and shouls i start a eca..

its definetly helps to throw those into the mix!

[Avelino]

Blindfaith

My friend is starting a diet soon and he's depending on me to tell him what to do. He's about 230 lbs real high bf, do you think this would work better for him than say a 40-40-20 diet.

What was the final verdict on the postworkout meal. Carbs in it or no carbs after workout?

[brooklyn mike]

hi gi carbs like whey protein with grape juice...

[Blindfaith]

Originally posted by Avelino
Blindfaith

My friend is starting a diet soon and he's depending on me to tell him what to do. He's about 230 lbs real high bf, do you think this would work better for him than say a 40-40-20 diet.

What was the final verdict on the postworkout meal. Carbs in it or no carbs after workout?

i personally like the 40-30-30 diet...this is a good well rounded diet that you can eat lots of different things. You can lose some really good weight with this but you can also plateau at it too. The keto will countinue to burn fat untill there is none left.

IMO the keto diet something that you can do for 6-8 weeks...but its not something long term by any means...the 40-30-30 is a diet that you can consistenly do for the rest of your life. I switch back and forth between the two every so often...im either doing one or the other 90% of the time....the other 10% im travelling and i eat when i can.

As far as the post workout shakes are concerned i look at it this way...keto=no carbs so therefore stay away from them! my shake consists of 1 scoop of whey isolate, 2tbsp of natural penut butter, 1.5tbsp of olive oil and a cup of water. There is very few carbs in here and is about 500-600 cals.

hope this helps!

cheers

[alchemist]

I am @ 13% bf right now and would like to get to 8% for my wedding in Hawaii. What kind of fat rebound does one experience when coming off this diet? Will I gain more fat than I previously had?

repsect

[Blindfaith]

the first time i ever did a keto diet...i lost like 30lbs in a month...went from 250-217...and after that i just ate whatever....3 months later i was 257lbs...i gained it all back and more! its different for everyone...i say stick with it right up to a few days before your wedding and then eat whatever until u get back from your honeymoon. That should limit u from too much reboud weight.

cheers!

and congrats on getting married!

[Del]

I'm sure this has been posted somewhere already, but what they hey.

Is Keto a good Idea for bulking? If so could someone outline the calories needed and any changes which should be made?

PS: Yes, I'm one of those "scared to lose my abs while bulking" bbuilders and not ashamed of it.

[Blindfaith]

keto is for losing the chunks not gaining weight.

[CyberGod]

Originally posted by Blindfaith
keto is for losing the chunks not gaining weight.

Actually you can gain muscle mass while on a keto bulking. Search for fitnessman's posts on bulking ketos.

Basically, you eat loads of fat, and go for a carb-load.

[chrisg]

Originally posted by Blindfaith
stay away from milk, and any vegitable with seeds in it

how safe are jalepenos on keto???

[IxI Dan IxI]

So what you are telling me is that I have to EAT FAT TO LOOSE FAT???? (on that diet) You would think that if you ATE FAT TO LOOSE FAT, you would get fatter...

so basically you are telling me, all I have to do really is limit the carbs...eat lots of protien....and of course exercize....and I will loose lots of weight?

I have been struggling to loose weight for years.....I am like a yo-yo. I go up and I go down.

I am 6-1
I was at 178 in June....Now I am 189. I will estimate my bf..i think it is like 15-18% Something like that....

ehh....this is worth a try, and it sounds like an easy and effective diet.... all give it a go.

Dan

[Blindfaith]

yup just follow the diet and exercise plan and you should be good to go!

[IxI Dan IxI]

Thanks blindfaith... I am not at Ketois yet...but i hope to be there in a couple of days. I bought the Ketostix...18 dollars for 100.

I'll post my progress in the future.

Dan

[chet]

For 3 days now i have been in Ketois. The food is great, only problem being is the fact that im getting sick of drinking water and protein shakes. Can anybody suggest a drink besides water that is low in carbs that you usually drink while on a keto diet.

Much Appreciated ,

Getting thirsty for a reply

[Blindfaith]

crystal lite and diet cola

[sean benay]

Protein, water, and lipids...what about your vits and mins?

[little lats]

I would say a minimum of a multi, maybe a little Chromium.. I would have to say crystal light fits the bill

[Blindfaith]

i would think that this thread deserves some stars beside it...what do u guys think??? come on fitnessman hook it up!


peace

[Matthew D]

True it does seem to have a bunch of answers to life's little questions in it... :D plus the author has been kinda helpful from time to time

[Colin]

Originally posted by Blindfaith




IMO the keto diet something that you can do for 6-8 weeks...but its not something long term by any means...



I'm curiuous as to why you think you can't eat keto year round?Why just 6-8 weeks?

Fitnessman stays in ketosis year round(except for traveling/vacations he noted) and he also bulks on keto.

[Blindfaith]

me and fitnessman have different views on the keto diet...me personally i cant do it for more than 6-8 weeks because i feel like crap on it...i eat unhealthy food period. A balanced diet that consists of plenty of fruits, veggies, wheats, grains, lean proteins etc is a healthy diet.

On my keto days...im trying to add some more greens.

But the bottom line is that keto works great for fat loss! straight up the best for burning off unwanted fat....is it healthy for you!??!?! well thats still and always will be debatable from every point of view.

[joshcxcb]

hey guys, i was curious if this would be acceptable to eat on a keto diet.
its called "duo amici pasta lite" low carb pasta
iper serving of 2oz dry it has
160 cal
1g fat
10 carbs
3g sugar
7g dietary fiber
28 protein
from what i understand dietary fiber doesnt count in total carb count therefore it actually has 3g of carbs.
i found this at a healthfood store for 4 dollars, but today i found it at big lots for 79 cents, lets just say i bought about 2o dollars worth today, and this stuff tastes great. use a little olive oil to get your fats and sautee some onions and garlic with some cheese mmmmmmmmm..................

[msclbldrguy]

how soon after a bulking phase should i start the keto diet. I thought about taking a week off after i bulk, then start the keto diet. anybody have any experience with doin this?

[Blindfaith]

start it up whenever you feel like it....a week break from dieting is good.

[deantheaussie]

im 17 and 171 lbs!!! i dont have much fat (yes im one of those annoying people who wants to get rid of that ab fat...)

i wana lose about 4 lbs and i think ill be set and i think itll take my bf to around 8-9%!!!

I used bb.com to calculate my bmr and it was 2950 cals a day... it seems like abit much even for maintanince... which ends up to be 2450 a day for weightloss....

I did everything your first post said and i came up with my fat to protein ration as 75:35 ... and that seems way to much!!!
Could u help me out??? wats the best ratio etc???

[Blindfaith]

the way i do keto others might not nessessarily do....i just eat mcdonalds and BK all day (throw away the buns of the burgers of course) and i only take in carbs for my post workout shake...i just make sure that my fat intake is high and my carb intake is almost nill.

[ChemEMac]

im desperatley trying to get under 10% bf. Im at 11-12 now and have been for a while. Id like to go on a low carb diet and after reading this, i think id like to try the keto diet. so let me see if i got this straight...
so, no carbs all all week, laod up friday and saturday, work out hard....
what about milk? can you drink milk? On atkins you cant, but you can mix cream with water to make milk like substance. Is that ok for keto? I need milk with my protien shakes. And can you list OK veggies? i heard green beans, squash, lettuce, zucchini are ok, but what else? i cant live on meat and cheese alone.

[ChemEMac]

what about alcohol. Im a fan of a couple of cocktails on the weekend (college and all) I know alcohol is a no no, but is there a type or brand thats the lesser of the evils? That new ultra beer, vodka, wine, something? Please let me know.

[Blindfaith]

milk is a definete no no! as far as veggies go...anything green is good.

Alcohol should be left for friday and saturdays...dont have any during the week.

[pitbullmuscle]

wannabebig.com has a interview with Lyle McDonald up, the proclaimed Keto authority. He basically says in the interview that Keto diets are no better then carb diets. He says it is basically calories vs. calories out. He also states that a keto diet does promote more fat oxidation but the high levels of dietary fat offset this.

So what do you think. I am currently on my second week of a keto diet and I think when monday comes around and I drop to low cals I am gonna try a ration of 60/40 or 50/50. See if that works better. I would recommend checking out that interview www.wannabebig.com Kind of dissapointing.

[Blindfaith]

Originally posted by pitbullmuscle
wannabebig.com has a interview with Lyle McDonald up, the proclaimed Keto authority. He basically says in the interview that Keto diets are no better then carb diets. He says it is basically calories vs. calories out. He also states that a keto diet does promote more fat oxidation but the high levels of dietary fat offset this.

So what do you think. I am currently on my second week of a keto diet and I think when monday comes around and I drop to low cals I am gonna try a ration of 60/40 or 50/50. See if that works better. I would recommend checking out that interview www.wannabebig.com Kind of dissapointing.

i read that interview about a month ago...very good one indeed! But he also does mention that keto is still definetly the way to go! I have had sucess on a 40-30-30 type of diet and i have had better sucess with the keto.

I guess its what you prefer...with the 40-30-30 diet i usually hit a plateau after about 8 weeks....with the keto i dont hit a plateau at all. When im doing a keto diet i usually eat maybe about 1800-2000 cals...so when you do a restricted cal diet...no matter what kind...you are going to lose weight. With carb diets...i am always hungry, never satisfied, and always craving some nachoes or pizza etc. With the keto...i sometimes forget to eat and have to remind myself that perhaps i should be eating something. I never have cravings and my energy level is insane! i cant explain it but i have as much energy as if i were on eca...but without actually taking an eca...its pretty sweet.

But anyways definetly try other kinds of diet...manipulate your carb or protein intakes...there isnt just one diet out there...try em all...i have.


cheers

[defboys]

ok here's a ques... if you do cardio in the morning and workout in the afternoon... d u need to drink the 30g whey and 30 g carb 2 times?

[Blindfaith]

no just do it after your weights

[Phenom]

Im not sure if this has been answered be4...


do those 30-50 grams of carbs......HAVE to come from vegetables? How about rice, bread, bran or oatmeal?

[Phenom]

another quiery...

if i do cardio....shud i have some sugary carbs after it...even though im in ketosis? And should THOSE carbs be counted for the day?

[Blindfaith]

yes they should come from veggies because they dont affect your insuling....if you have something like bread or something sugary...it will take you outta ketosis so fast!

Fitness man recommends having a post workout shake consisting of OJ and whey protein.

[Special_K]

wow blind faith, i am new to this area of bb.com and just eat lots of protein with minimal fat and carbs, i pretty much wing it and i am in good shape, almost:-). You have me intriegd! can you post a link to a good source on this diet? it would be greatly appriciated!
thnx,
please excuse my ignorance

[Blindfaith]

Originally posted by Special_K
wow blind faith, i am new to this area of bb.com and just eat lots of protein with minimal fat and carbs, i pretty much wing it and i am in good shape, almost:-). You have me intriegd! can you post a link to a good source on this diet? it would be greatly appriciated!
thnx,
please excuse my ignorance

here you go!

http://low-carb.org/faq/

cheers

[Special_K]

thanks a lot bro

[Blindfaith]

just to let some of you know...ive been dieting for about 6 weeks now and have dropped approx 26lbs using the ckd....got 6 more weeks to go! wish me luck!

cheers

[jasonlemon]

My wife and I want to try this. What I cant figure out is what foods do I get fat from. Can someone maybe list the foods. I looked at a few things like peanut butter but it all has carbs. thanks

[Jeffinchico]

how much water should I be drinking and what is a good source of fiber that compliments this diet? any help appreciated

[Del]

Originally posted by jasonlemon
My wife and I want to try this. What I cant figure out is what foods do I get fat from. Can someone maybe list the foods. I looked at a few things like peanut butter but it all has carbs. thanks

If you want a high fat spread, try macadamia spread from the health food store... macadamias are the lowest carbs nuts I am aware of.

Otherwise look into whipped cream ;-) eggs, good oils etc.

Psyllium husk and salad (baby rocket is v. tasty) for fibre.

cheers,

del

[Blindfaith]

metamusil or fibercon

[Special_K]

good for you bro, that is great! Do you lift alot, and have you been able to build any mass, or atleast keep what you have with all that weight loss? and if so i am on the band wagon, i just eat about 4000 calories a day, but i lift hard and am pretty big, i dont want to lose that but i do need to see my abs a little better:-)

Good luck bro, keep it going! and keep us posted if you dont mind.

Later!
John

[Blindfaith]

thanx for the encouragment bro! much appreciated!

right now im doing the mat-ot program step by step to a tee! and absolutely love it! its the best training regime i have ever used! im not too sure if ive gained any size because im already 255lbs but all i know is im dropping fat like a mofo!

i train monday to friday...i do 45 mins of cardio 4 times a week and i play almost 2 hours of racquetball on saturdays and sundays.

i train first thing in the morning at about 6am...and i do this all on an empty stomach.

the supplements that i take are....biotests t2, caffine tabs, yohimbe, lipoderm-y, liver tabs, glutamine, and multi vits...and i do a Usnic Acid cycle every so often.

I have finally found a program and diet that compliment each other very well and work good for my needs and schedule.

[Special_K]

Thats great bro, i think you have talked me into it, i will do a little more research on the keto thing and give it a try, you seem to have plenty of energy! wish me luck and take care bro.

[Meni]

"i personally like the 40-30-30 diet...this is a good well rounded diet that you can eat lots of different things. You can lose some really good weight with this but you can also plateau at it too. The keto will countinue to burn fat untill there is none left. "
Lemme play devil's advocate.
Who is 5% or 4% bf doing keto?
and who is that low doing 40/40/20 or 40/30/30?
I think keto brings real high BF down a lot . but the last few % is pure intensity, not so much keto/not keto

[musmar]

Interesting...

[newguy72]

One question for you guys, I understand that you should still consume simple carbs post-workout, and not count those in your daily totals, but does this include after cardio work if it is done seperately(sp?)?

For instance, I train boxing and wrestling for cardio, and sometimes do interval training on the treadmill first thing in the morning. Should I consume some simple carbs after these activities to try to preserve muscle? Even if I work out around 10 at night?

Thanks for all your help.

[Special_K]

this diet goes against everything i have ever learned, but if it works that well for so many people than i guess i may have to give it a shot!!!!

[The_Natural]

I AM GETTING READY MY FIRST KETO DIET. I WILL START TOMMOROW MORNING (SUNDAY).

What percent of fat calories should be saturated fat and what percent should be poly, mono????

Do you take in carbs/protein after weight workouts and cardio workouts?

Do PW carbs/protein count towards your daily calories??

How many grams of carbs a day?

[Meni]

Originally posted by The_Natural
I AM GETTING READY MY FIRST KETO DIET. I WILL START TOMMOROW MORNING (SUNDAY).

What percent of fat calories should be saturated fat and what percent should be poly, mono????

Do you take in carbs/protein after weight workouts and cardio workouts?

Do PW carbs/protein count towards your daily calories??

How many grams of carbs a day?

I don't do keto but I would suggest
80% unsaturated/ 20% saturated (or even less)

if you are cutting, i wouldn't take carbs/protein after cardio
just glutamine

postworkout, yes carbs and protein

I personally only count the protein cals towards my daily intake
Not sure what others do

not including PW, i would say 30 grams of carbs a day

hope someone on keto replies to your question

[greg]

Originally posted by Blindfaith


the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.




Q for you guys: The man said that in order to maintain weight you should eat 3000 cals and to loose fat you need to eat 2500. so that means that i should eat 2500 or 3000 cause im confused.

[Meni]

Where are all the ketoers ?
zzzzzzzzzzz

[overdeveloped]

one of my friends who wrestles is on this and it is working like a charm for him. Definitely the RIGHT diet. I just wanna know, should milk, maybe 1% or so, be included in this diet. It has some carbs and sugar, but it's milk and i'm used to drinking A LOT of it? Thanks

peace

[Blindfaith]

milk is a no no on a keto diet....i will toss you outta ketosis fast! take whey protein powder instead.

[JFP2026]

Originally posted by Blindfaith
the first time i ever did a keto diet...i lost like 30lbs in a month...went from 250-217...and after that i just ate whatever....3 months later i was 257lbs...i gained it all back and more! its different for everyone...i say stick with it right up to a few days before your wedding and then eat whatever until u get back from your honeymoon. That should limit u from too much reboud weight.

cheers!

and congrats on getting married!

So what your saying is you lost fat, then you blew back up after keto the first time?

Was that because you didn't eat right, or do you blow up everytime you come out of keto?

I was considering using keto in April to cut, so I was just wondering. :)

[Blindfaith]

its because i ate like **** after i came off the diet and i just ended up gaining back everything and more....so when you come off the diet you should slowly introduce carbs back into your system.

[JFP2026]

Even when you slowly reintroduce carbs, is fat gain still expected?

And how slowly do you recommend introducing them?

Thanks for taking the time to reply. :)

[Blindfaith]

not much fat will be gained back at all if you SLOWLY introduce carbs back into the system.

my personal rule is that i introduce 50 grams of carbs per week after i end doing the keto diet. Other people may do it differently but thats what i do to make for certain that i dont gain any fat back.

[musmar]

cool stuff

[The_Natural]

Originally posted by Blindfaith
not much fat will be gained back at all if you SLOWLY introduce carbs back into the system.

my personal rule is that i introduce 50 grams of carbs per week after i end doing the keto diet. Other people may do it differently but thats what i do to make for certain that i dont gain any fat back.

Do u mean 50 grams per day???
I would imagine 50 grams per week would take quite awhile to get back to normal eating patterns.

[Meni]

per day

[Blindfaith]

yeah add 50 grams per week.

[Meni]

add ALA

[SeanMann]

What happens if u go under 1000 calories eaten a day while still eating 1 gram protein per pound of body weight? I am curious if you body just countiues to use fat or goes into starve mode and starts burning muscle.

[meestermontana]

Im seriously considering starting this diet about 2 months before summer but i still have a few questions about it.

1) you say ketones are toxic to the brain... this can't be good for you??
2) Blindfaith, your workouts are a lot longer than mine and i dont know if your lifting real heavy during the diet, if im on this diet do i still continue to lift as heavy as i am. (do i continue on with the same workouts im doing to bulk)?
3) cardio, i know you explained it but im still confused, i do only 2 sessions in the morning a week how should i alter this?
4) Once you get off the diet do you gain all the fat back immediatly?
5) without carbs you probly become a bit weaker right?

thanks alot looks like a really interesting diet to try.

[FatNerd]

A few things need to be cleared up here:

1) Eating a high carb diet is unnatural. The human body was not designed to do this. We have not evolved significantly in 100,000 years. It was only 10,000 years ago that we learned to harvest grains and make flour to bake bread. It was only within the last few hundred years that otherwise well-nourished societies have had large amounts of carbs in thier diets. Sure plenty of people lived off of 2 cups of rice or 2 slices of bread a day and didn't get fat, but they don't count.

2) Bodybuilding is equally unnatural. 6% bodyfat 100 years or more ago meant you were ABOUT TO DIE. With modern nutritional science, we have been able to achieve this and still mantain health. The Keto Diet seems to be the best way to do this. The reason you feel "retarded" on Atkins is because a normally healthy diet doesn't mix well with a normally unhealthy lifestyle.

3) On the topic of toxic ketones:

http://www.fourmilab.to/hackdiet/www/subsubsection1_3_3_0_4_3.html

While ketones are toxic, they're only slightly so. Dieting won't make you see huge hairy bats (unless, of course, you saw huge hairy bats before). Second, the waste products of burning fat aren't insidious--they don't accumulate in the body like heavy metals or some organic toxins. Instead, they get swept out of the bloodstream by the kidneys and liver and are excreted in fairly short order.

http://www.halcyon.com/kway/chemistry.htm

The ketones consist of some of the most toxic elements of essential oils. Some of these include thujone (Mugwort, Tansy, Sage, Wormwood) and pulegone (Pennyroyal). The toxic chemicals in this group can cause epeleptic seizures, convulsions, abortive effects, and mental confusion. However, not all Ketones are toxic. The non-toxic ketones may aid in dissolving mucus, dissolving fats, and wound healing. Some common chemicals in this group are jasmone (Jasmine), fenchone (Fennel), carvone (Coriander, Peppermint, Tagetes), menthone (Peppermint, Spearmint, Rose Geranium), and pinocamphone (Hyssop, Juniper Berry).

The process by which you lose weight on Atkins or Keto Diets is really called Lipolysis/Ketosis. This is safe since your body produces these ketones, and excretes them in urine rather quickly. Ketoacidosis is what happens to diabetics that are unable to metabolize the sugars properly and then burns fat stores for energy when you don't want it to. Formation of ketones is a serious condition for diabetics. It is a condition that should be cared for by a doctor. This is why Atkins recommends you take the Five Hour Glucose Tolerance Test before starting his diet.

For the record, I'm an "overweight desk jockey" who is on the Atkins Diet and has done much research into it and has had much success. I was lead to this thread by my brother who is a bodybuilder considering starting the Keto Diet soon. I believe both of these diets are extremely healthy, Keto moreso, but I'm sticking with Atkins because I'm really lazy and can't think of anything more boring than lifting weights.

I hope some of the information in my post has helped you guys.

Joe

[meestermontana]

is a protein shake with skim milk and a banana ok after a workout while on keto?

[Meni]

Fat Nerd you said, "6% bodyfat 100 years or more ago meant you were ABOUT TO DIE"
can you show some proof of this?
and you are still fat right?
so how well does atkins go for you?

[Anxed]

Originally posted by meestermontana
is a protein shake with skim milk and a banana ok after a workout while on keto?

its not ideal, but if thats all you can get or have, then its at least something... Id recommend grape juice or gatorade over the milk, add some whey protien and yer golden... the milk protein casein is too slow digesting to be optimal...

[tre14]

Originally posted by Meni
I don't do keto but I would suggest
80% unsaturated/ 20% saturated (or even less)




There is nothing wrong with saturated fat. Also, too many polyunsaturated fats can be detrimental. The best approach is to balance the type of fat.


I suggest everyone reads "The Cholesterol Myths." A lot of the crap you hear about cholesterol and sat. fat is bull****.

[Meni]

I'm just going by what I did
and what worked for me
from 205 to 164
no strength lost
6.8% bf

[mixxalot]

I am interested in knowing whether a ketogenic diet with few carbs (under 40g a day) is safe for you in the long run? Doesnt it cause kidney stones and health problems? Does it really burn more bodyfat and preserve muscle better than a moderate carb moderate fat moderate protein diet? Thanks!

mixxalot

[Meni]

Atkins thinks so
saw him on Donahue

[tre14]

Originally posted by mixxalot
Doesnt it cause kidney stones


Just drink plenty of water and you shouldn't have a problem.

[IPR]

Originally posted by tre14
There is nothing wrong with saturated fat. Also, too many polyunsaturated fats can be detrimental. The best approach is to balance the type of fat.


I suggest everyone reads "The Cholesterol Myths." A lot of the crap you hear about cholesterol and sat. fat is bull****.

Hey tre14.....looks like you read the book then :D

IMO keto is very safe if the correct fats are eaten.....and I DON'T mean eating a very high % of polyunsaturated fats, but a sensible balance.

Low carb eating has been around for over 100yrs in so called modern civilisation. It isn't a new "fad" diet, But anyone who does keto should read and then make up their own mind. "Someone on the BB.com forum said its safe" is not sufficient IMO.

[FatNerd]

The 6% comment was really purely speculation. I said so because there weren't very many bodybuilders 100 yrs ago, and the only way people go so low was generally starvation.

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20020327.html


According to an article from Medscape.com, the American Dietetic Association recommends that men have 15-18% body fat and women have 20-25% body fat. Healthy male athletes might be as low as 5-12% body fat, and healthy female athletes could be as low as 10-20%.

Dr. C. Everett Koop's site, ShapeUp.com, breaks down healthy body fat ranges by both gender and age. Men under 39 years of age should have 8-19% body fat, and women under 39 years of age should have 21-32%. Older men may range from 11% to 24%, and older women may range from 23% to 35%.

Health Check Systems quotes the American Council on Exercise and says men's body fat should be 6-25%, and women's should be 14-31%.


I guess 6% could be healthy, but under normal circumstances, it probably isn't. (bodybuilding is not normal circumstances, but many bodybuilders can employ unhealthy means to get this low)

As far as my success with Atkins, in 6 weeks, I lost 20lbs, and feel GREAT. Its been 2 weeks or so since I stepped on a scale, and I'm sure I've lost more.

My mother lost 40lbs in 4 months, and my father lost like 50lbs in about the same time. My youngest brother lost almost as much as I did in like 2 weeks. My middle brother, who is a member of this forum and pointed me to this thread is on Keto with much success.

[xrik8]

seems to complicated, where can an idiot find all this you guys are talking about, simpilfied? easier to understand?

[Silent Jhay]

Couple questions;

1: Should one only eat 1g of protein per LBM pounds? I thought the general consensus was that during cutting one should eat like 1.5g protein per pound.

2: How much cardio should one do on workout days? How much on non-workout days?

3: Could anyone list the best fats to eat while cutting? What ratio?

[Drumboy354]

Okay in his article he says sun. through friday afternoon you should take in fat and protein. But then he says don't take in fat and carbs on the days that you work out. Well if you work-out mon. through thursday (or any 4 days) You're only taking in Protein??? Nahh this can't be right, what am I missing?

[Corsair]

I have the same Problem. If you work out 4-5 days a week then when do I eat the fat portion of the diet.

[devl]

There's an article by fitnessman and dorian that explains things a little better I think. No offense to blindfaith ofcourse.

[mixxalot]

Well I dont know the real answer but thus far on the cutting phase of my diet I have been eating 150 to 200g of protein per day (I weight 145lbs) and this works great for me. Cut way down on carbs (under 100g) per day and the protein and fats will fill you up and help lean you out.

Steak and eggs for breakfast
fish and salad greens lunch
mid afternoon snack some unsalted nuts
dinner steak and salad

I am down to 9% bodyfat from 19% several months ago so I know this works. My lean mass has increased by 5 pounds as well.

[IPR]

Originally posted by Drumboy354
Okay in his article he says sun. through friday afternoon you should take in fat and protein. But then he says don't take in fat and carbs on the days that you work out. Well if you work-out mon. through thursday (or any 4 days) You're only taking in Protein??? Nahh this can't be right, what am I missing?
The basics are:

Mon-Fri All meals are high fat, moderate protein, low carb except post w/o shake which is whey protein and liquid carbs (dextrose or maltodextrin or grape juice), and wait 1.5 to 2hrs after this before your next high fat meal.

Weekends swap the fat and carb ratios so you eat high carb low fat.

The amount of protein per day should be 1g per lb of total body weight and a min of 150g per day during the first 2 wesks. Don't go too high on protein.

[mixxalot]

I love steak, eggs and fish! I eat almost
a pound of lean sirloin steak several days a week with salad greens and spices. The other days I eat fish, eggs and salads. It makes cooking and shopping simple and quick. I never overeat or get hungry and I have lost a lot of bodyfat and gained muscle mass. Plus meat is cheap in america now that the health nuts are anti red meat it has driven down the cost of good steaks in the markets which is good news for us on the ketogenic diets. I used to always get hungry and overeat on the old high carb low fat diet and was fat.

[OldUser982]

i plan on doing the keto diet....wtf, ill try anything once
but i have a few questions:
can i eat: cottage cheese, gatorade powder (destrose) post workout

otherwise im good to go....

[hausgrl]

Originally posted by SeanMann
What happens if u go under 1000 calories eaten a day while still eating 1 gram protein per pound of body weight? I am curious if you body just countiues to use fat or goes into starve mode and starts burning muscle.

if someone can, i'd appreciate the answer to this as well :)

[bodybeautiful]

I am interested in doing the CKD but I just have a few questions.

I want to lose 20 - 30 punds and I do workout 5 days a week , I do about an hour cardio and 1/2 hour toning,
The thing is, I dont want to look too toned, I just want to look lean and slender in my 5'8" frame.

Will this diet help with that or is it mainly for the buff types?

thanxx for your replies

[piranetus]

Originally posted by Dflood
i plan on doing the keto diet....wtf, ill try anything once
but i have a few questions:
can i eat: cottage cheese, gatorade powder (destrose) post workout

otherwise im good to go....


You shouldn't have either one during the low-carb period. Cottage cheese has carbs and gatorade has alot too.

[Rob_L]

Why does everyone dog the protein shakes while on the Keto diet? My shake is low in carbs and 3 shakes a day still keeps my under 30g of carbs a day if mixed with water. Is it the juice that some people mix in it that can contain the carbs?

[Carl_AK]

Whey is a fast acting protien that can, itself cause an insulin spike. Thats why you dont want to have whey while on keto, except post w/o or on carb ups. The insulin spike can knock you out of keto.

[BigBadT51]

I assume the 1 day carb up knocks you out of ketosis...True or false? Secondly if it does knock you out of ketosis, how long into the week til you feel the effects of ketosis again?

[Carl_AK]

Yes, it knocks you out of ketosis. The time it takes to get back into ketosis varies from person to person. For me I carb up from 6pm Fri to 6pm Sat, and just before bed Sat eat a about a lb of fatty sausage, and i'm back into ketosis by around noon on Sunday.

[Jandy]

can you take milk w/ your post workout shake? I cant stand doing it with anything else, and its chocolate! Chocolate and oj just dont mix! Brand new 10lb bag too and I cant waste it

[Rotty22]

Maybe someone can explain to me why the whey in a protein shake (like 100% Optumum Nutrion) would cause an insulin spike. There is only 3g of carbs (1 of which is sugar). If the whey is so fast acting, and causes a spike, then why not take it in water with a tablespoon or so of flax, canola or olive oil to slow it down. I mean, the fat supposedly slows down absorbtion, right? That is why everyone believes that milk should not be used P/W, because of the fat and the slower digesting caisan (sp). You should be using a low carb protein in a Keto diet anyways, right? We're not talking about N Large with large amounts of carbs. So, I think dumping some oil in the shake should be fine to counteract the spike. If I am wrong Chi, Fitness or one of the other gurus, please correct me.

[Meni]

I never heard the whey causes a spike
I take dextrose and maltodextrin with creatine and glutamine and the whey in water
it kicks ass
I take 1 r-ala 100 mg with it

[Rotty22]

Carl AK says it is so fast acting that it causes a spike and would knock you out of ketosis. I'm not particularly sure that is true. Maybe someone of more knowledge about Keto could comment on that. I figure if you dump some oil in with it, it would negate any supposed spike you would get. Like I said, you shouldn't be using a high carb shake anyway except P/W

[Meni]

I forgot this is the keto diet plan thread

[Chisle170]

I'm 17, 5'7 about 175 at near 15% bodyfat. I want to get down to around 8% and I've heard keto is the way to do it. I really want to get my sixpack. Can you guys tell me if this is a good monday through friday diet? And I was wondering, for monday through friday can I have no carbs at all, not even from nuts? I want to do the carb loading on the weekend.

Meal 1: 4 whole eggs + sausage (33gP 18gF)

Meal 2: 1 can tuna + 2 tbs mayo (30gP 34gF)

Meal 3: Chicken + 1 tbs flax oil (32gP 17gF)

Meal 4: same as Meal 2 (30gP 34gF)

Meal 5: Turkey burger + salad w/2 tbs dressing (23gP 34GF)

Meal 6: Cheese (21gP 27gF)

Do I not have enough fat, or do I have too much protein? Thanks for the help, and I appologize if I'm asking similar questions to some already asked.

[Rob250]

Is it important to take flaxseed oil if im on keto?

I have the flaxseed oil in gel tablets! Its a 1,000 mg per gel tablet How much do u think i would have to take a day?


im 6ft tall and im 200 lb's

[Trainer2003]

Can anyone explain this keto diet to me without writing a book?LOL. Is this a low-carb diet, or a 0 carb diet?(not counting weekends) Am I basicaly eating protein-rich foods, high in fat? I also want to preserve my muscle, so should I be weight training during the first steps of this diet?

Also, Important question: Is it ok to take ephedra while on this diet, or is it not needed or recommended?

Thanks a bunch.

[Trainer2003]

How does the keto diet differ from the Adkins diet?

[PolishGirl]

Originally posted by Blindfaith
what is it about that diet that troubles you???

How about the fact that its been prooven that that kind of diet can kill you. It was just released that it damages certain parts of your body (I cant remember), and thats not worth it.
It works, but in the long run it will harm you. WE need those carbs, to think for one, and to live.

[chimponarope]

Originally posted by PolishGirl
How about the fact that its been prooven that that kind of diet can kill you. It was just released that it damages certain parts of your body (I cant remember), and thats not worth it.
It works, but in the long run it will harm you. WE need those carbs, to think for one, and to live.

You got a link to that information and study? I'd like to see that.

Also try reading this.

http://www.totalfitness.com.au/mythsaboutlowcarbdiets.htm

[chimponarope]

Originally posted by Trainer2003
Can anyone explain this keto diet to me without writing a book?LOL. Is this a low-carb diet, or a 0 carb diet?(not counting weekends) Am I basicaly eating protein-rich foods, high in fat? I also want to preserve my muscle, so should I be weight training during the first steps of this diet?

Also, Important question: Is it ok to take ephedra while on this diet, or is it not needed or recommended?

Thanks a bunch.

OK basics:

40% protein 60% fat no more than 20g of carbs from fibrous green veg.

Yes you can train and should do so.

Yes ephedra is fine although I'd use ephedrine HCL (the pure stuff not the herbal stuff).

[Rotty22]

chimponarope,
You are a patient, patient man. Go on the Sup board and all the redundant questions would merit a serious a$$ flaming.

[PolishGirl]

[+QUOTE]Originally posted by chimponarope
You got a link to that information and study? I'd like to see that.

Also try reading this.

http://www.totalfitness.com.au/mythsaboutlowcarbdiets.htm [/QUOTE]

IT was just on the news two nights ago.
ANd tonight, i also heard more news about low carb diets.
The fact remains, Nothing too extreme works. People tend to go back to their old ways, and gain more fat.
The key is to build up smart habits that in-corperate lots of fruits and vegetables, with healthy carbs.
ANOther thing i did learn is that potatoe chips, fries and even bread contain a certain additive (starts with the letter a, sorry cant remember) that has been prooven to cause cancer. This has been known for years, but because millions of dollars are at stake, the government wont do anything about it.
Im sorry i cant remember the specifics, but all my information is from legitamate sources. And the reason i post this is because i want people to be aware, and mostly healthy.

[AC398]

How many grams of carbs are ok to eat from Sun-Friday, and do you have to count lettuce as carbohydrates?

Also im not sure if I'm doing my calculations right( I've checked them 3 times) but could you guys take a look and see if they are on target?

I weigh 178 lbs- 26% bodyfat- 132 lbs lean body mass.
Maintenance calories= 2136 Fat loss calories= 1636
Mon-Friday afternoon- 132g. protein, 123g. fat

Friday Night-Saturday Midnight-
598g. carbs, 132g. protein, as little fat as possible.

I'm going to do cardio around 3-4x a week for 45 minutes.

If you guys could take a look and see if those #s are accurate it would be greatly appreciated. Also am I too worried about calories and grams of protein and should I not worry about the #s as much during the diet as long as I'm not eating carbs and then just follow the carb up very strictly.
Thanks for your guys help

[hamakayna]

AC398

I don't think its a smart thing to cut carbs down to zero.

I usually eat 50g of carb every day when I'm on keto.

i've done keto two times, I was at 22%BF first time I did it, At the end of my second "keto season" I was at 10%.

Now , I've been off for 3 months, and will start again next week. I'm at 12%BF.

Here is how I do my numbers:

175lbs
1750 cals per day

50% fat - 97g
40%protein - 176g
10% carbs - 45g

you have to adjust the amount of carbs in a way that you'll have lots of fiber and some carbs without getting kicked out of ketosis

During carb up, I manage to eat about 260g of carbs. I never get less than 176g of protein, even on carb up. I always exceed my protein intake a bit, without compromising my diet.

just my way of seeing it, hope it helps.

HAMA

[chimponarope]

Originally posted by AC398
How many grams of carbs are ok to eat from Sun-Friday, and do you have to count lettuce as carbohydrates?


The trick with the veg is to not count the fibre grams in the veg. That will bring the carb grams down to virtually nothing. You can go as high as about 30-50 grams after a while but around 20 is a good idea to start with.

[trapt4days]

oops just realized I posted my diet in the wrong thread...sorry

[cfauver]

Originally posted by Blindfaith
ketones are toxic to the brain...thats why u feel retarted when doing the atkins diet.


glucose fuels brain :-O !

[william_lee]

Originally posted by Blindfaith
...too long in ketosis isnt good for you either.....ketones are toxic to the brain...thats why u feel retarted when doing the atkins diet.

Sorry I had to bite, ketones are definitely not toxic to the brain. They are an alternative to glucose. When you wake up in the morning after a night of fasting during sleep, you've got elevated levels of ketones in your blood. Unless you're a diabetic in acidosis, ketones have never been demonstrated to be toxic to my knowledge.

[ripped_centre]

To start a keto diet without gaining fat, would you have to eat low carb and low fat the first couple days to get into ketosis, or could you get away with hi fat right away?

[Blindfaith]

go for the high fat right away.

[dilly]

Originally posted by PolishGirl
How about the fact that its been prooven that that kind of diet can kill you. It was just released that it damages certain parts of your body (I cant remember), and thats not worth it.
It works, but in the long run it will harm you. WE need those carbs, to think for one, and to live.

ROFLMAO! OMG are you serious! Hope you realize how stupid you just made yourself look. This is the kind of statement a 6 year old would make! Do some research and educate yourself a little bit and come back when you are ready to have an intelligent argument with studies to back up your garbage!

Dilly

[Genius]

i gotta admit that my low-carb diet really kick ass.

The moment i got rid of all my white rice and pastas, and switched to brown rice & pasta (which i eat in small portions with my o so holy chicken and hot sauce) i've seen some real changes in a short amount of time.

To all u wanna-lose-fat-guys, go for the very low carb diet.
and eat all the chicken, tuna, salmon, egg-whites u can.

Greetz from the Belgian connection.

[Nick666]

Do you notice a lot of size loss while on the keto diet, because of glycogen store depletion in the muscle?

How does it prevent cortisol secretion. I thought cortisol secretion was limited by taking carbs, especially when working out - weight training or cardio- ?

And WHERE DO YOU GET ALL THIS FAT FROM? I mean, there are not many foods that are high in fat and have no carb at all. Must be pretty disguting to add oil and better with everything you eat..

[dilly]

How does it prevent cortisol secretion. I thought cortisol secretion was limited by taking carbs, especially when working out - weight training or cardio- ?

This is where proper postworkout nutrition comes into play! Make sure you are getting in your whey and dextrose post workout!

Dilly

[epiphany]

I'm getting ready to start on this diet. The only question I have is about the the fat intake on workout days. It says only to consume protein on workout days. So i only load up on fat on the rest days and carb up days, and cut out all the fat on lifting days?

[Punch1546]

K guys, this may be a stupid question. I'm going from a normal loading diet (i.e. 300 p 600 c 100 f per day) to CKD Keto. My question is, am I able to use CDK Keto during my loading phase? So far my numbers for CDK look like this:

6'2 250lbs

250 P
210 F
50 C

From what I read CDK is more of a cutting diet, but I don't know. Please help.

[Yashin]

I have been on the diet for 2 weeks, but am not sure about 1 thing :
I have evenly distributed my meals by times (6 times). What I am not sure, is what types of exercises to do and when during the following :

1. 40-40-20 days. (40% protein, 40%carb, 20% Fat)
2. Low Carbs Days (Keto Days) - Should I do high intensity training then ?
3. Carb Filling (Cheat?) - Do I work out at all this day?

I do my cardio before 1st thing in the morning and immediately afterwards have a protein/carb shake. After 2pm, I limit my carb intake drastically, so each meal is not 40-40-20, but the end of day figures are 40-40-20.

Any advice ?
I am gyming (including cardio) 6 times a week.

[Nick666]

I've been on a keto diet and HIIT for one week ( + my lifting sessions). I've lost 6lbs already. most of it is probably glycogen +water. But I am leaner no doubt about it.

Honestly I'm not sure it is a good idea to do HIIT. It is advised from what I've read to do a low to medium intensity cardio because it uses more fat, while HIIT uses mainly glycogen. So it forces you to take carbs before and after your HIIT session, which gets you out of ketosis for at least 2-3 hours.

If HIIT increases your metabolism by 10%, it is compensated by the fact that you waste 10% of your day not in ketosis.

So from now on I will just walk 1 hour a day. This way, I will consume calories while I'm walking, and that will keep my metabolism relatively high, and I won't take carbs and never get out of ketosis.

I will still do HIIT after my lifting sessions, but just 10 min. At this time it doesn't matter, since I need to take carbs anyways for my workout.

I will reserve HIIT on non lifting days for my bulk phases only.

[t0n3z]

So is this sort of cardio bad -

http://www.bodyforlife.com/cardio.shtm

[Nick666]

Looks a lot like HIIT.

I don't want to mislead people with what I just said. Actually I have little experience with keto diets. Maybe I'm wrong when I say that taking carbs for your cardio gets you out of ketosis for several hours. One of the things that make me say that is that I read that the insulin level takes several hours to decrease a lot, even after taking simple carbs.


Anyways, you can have a look at these links:

http://c-k-d.com/exercise.html

Written by Lyle McDonald himself.

[Dorian]

One thing that I have found on keto diets is if the nutrients are not maintained you will lose but still be fat.
Let me explain this:
My original keto diet many years ago I decided to cut calories below maintenance. I did lose weight but it was also a lot of muscle wasting as well.
Picture this if you will, a 165 pound man @ 6'. NO ABS showing!
I was skinny as a rail and still had fat! My gut was covered with it although it semed to be flattened.
My arms were also still fatty at that weight.
I decided to experiment, ( I was afriad to do so for fear of gaining it all back) so I raised my calories up slowly until I reached a tad above maintenence. Guess what I gained weight again!!!
But this time the fat was going away. I was gaining muscle tissue back.
So don't tryt to do as I have seen for so many years from so many people who write me and e-mail me. Keep the cals around or slightly above maintenence or you will slow the metabolism down and not lose fat but everyhting else.

[Yashin]

This is what I am currently doing :
Woke up this morning and had a low intensity 30 minute cycle.
Meal Plan
1. Immediately after the cycle had a Shake (High Protein, Low Carb - with EFA)
NOTE : I grind up a lot of nuts and seeds together to provide me with a tasty, EFA Powder (no oils, butter, margarine) to add to my shake
2. Next meal will be 2 Apples only
3. Next Meal Tuna and Yoghurt (separately of course!)
4. Next Meal Chicken Fillet
5. Next meal High Protein and High Carb Shake (With EFA Powder)
6. Final Meal Chicken Fillet with Steamed Veggies.

This is my meal plan for a low carb day.

My Calorie intake is correct, (Lean Body Mass in kg x 12),
Is my eating program correct?
If I do weights in the afternoon, what should my protein/carb/fat intake be before the session and after the session (How long before and after)?
How long should the session last?

Should I concentrate on weights during my normal 40-40-20 days?

Regards
Yashin

"A journey of a 1000 miles begins with a single step"

[as0l0]

there's no place for apples on this diet mate.

you also don't seem to have enough fats?

[trinitymuscle]

i thought i saw someone one here lost 30lbs in one month on this diet? is that correct? isn't that a lot of weight to lose? i thought that more then 2 lbs a week and you lose muscle? how much are people losing a month on this diet?

no milk? crap. my shakes will be bland.

on friday afternoon and saturday can you eat anything you want? since those are carb days or do you still need to keep the calories around th same?

i take it cardio is not a must? i think it would be hard to lift and do cardio with no carbs in you.

[t0n3z]

Cardio is only to be done when you see your fat loss progress slowing down and you want it to speed up.

[Nick666]

Originally posted by trinitymuscle
i thought i saw someone one here lost 30lbs in one month on this diet? is that correct? isn't that a lot of weight to lose? i thought that more then 2 lbs a week and you lose muscle? how much are people losing a month on this diet?


30lbs in one month is way too much. He has probably lost a lot of muscle in the process.

one lbs of fat is equivalent to 3500 cal.. that would mean he would have burnt 3500 cal every day.. That's obviously impossible.

He probably lost A LOT of glygogen and water, and a lot of muscle.

[anabolic1]

hi guys so let me get this straight, if i was to follow a post workout carbs/protein meal i would have no reason to carb up right? well currently this is my diet please read and judge it i probably post workout will switch to the whey/orange juice combo. my current diet is this, can anybody judge if this is a good diet that i have proposed,


800 pre workout snack 1tbllspoon of olive oil

1000pst workout meal 1 tbls olive oil 2 cups of kashi go lean cereal 58 gms of carbs all together,

now i dont get to eat cause of skool until 530 which sucks but i take eca to keep me burning fat instead of glycogen/protein.

530 2 cups kashi go lean cereal,1tblsponn olive oil
58 gms of carb all together

630 2 whole eggs 1tblspoon olive oil

730 2 whole eggs 1 tblspoon olive oil

830 6 oz chicken breast

930 six oz chicken breast

and i also drink plenty of water throughout the day
i take in 3 hp 3 ephedrine capsules 40 mg each 325 mg aspirin 3 times a day to keep me in constant fat buring mode. total 120 mg ephedrine 975 mg of aspirin, the caffeine just messes my system up i dont respond good to it.

any modifications of this will greatly be appreciated being i dont know much about keto but i believe im in keto i have this unbelievable bad breath that i know its only when i enter the low carb phase so it must be ketosis,

[anabolic1]

btw im 16 yrs old ive been on this diet for 4 weeks except last week when i cheated on it from wednesday to sunday but previousy before that i was on 2 weeks straight and now this whole week, i have gotten from 22 percent bf and a 37 inch waist to a 31 inch waist and 32 inch abdomen and a 12 percent body fat my goal is 8 or 9 i feel in 2 weeks i will have achieved my 8 pack i feel no signs of plateuing i feel real good, but as always i want to know if there should be any modifications in my above diet and i want to know if there should be any changes in my post workout meals im confused as since i do double sessions every day as to weather i should take in carbs 2. and should i lower my carbs lower? right now im gonna stay pat and if i feel im plateuing i will lower the carbs but as of right now i think ill stay where i am. my workout is as follows, my main concern is since im not in extremely low carb mode should i bother with the CARB UP?

monday wed friday
workout 800 hst fullbody workouts
445 45 minutes treadmilll low to medium intensity

tuesday thurs say

2 cardio sessions on 800 and 445 45 minutes medium to low intensity now should i take post workout carbs on both workouts? and should i swtich from the kashi to the orange juice at least one of these post workout meals? im contemplating doing that and switching to fiber one for more fiber less carbs so i can replace the kashi with the orange juice and whey to compensate the fiber loss with the carb loss since fiber1 contains more fiber less carbs.

wend

[DON VINCENZO]

I work a body part one day a week, will this diet work for me?

M - Chest
T - Bicep and Tricep
W - Back
T - Shoulders
F - Legs

30 min. cardio after each workout

5'10", 230 lbs., 21% bodyfat

What is a good bodyfat percentage for a 29 year old?

Thanks for any help.

[marcFE]

Curious, Ive always been interested in keto type diets, and am thinking about starting next sunday but I want to get all my facts down.

I need to get about 70%Fat/30%protein for keto to work which is ok

Right now I weight 205 with about 19% BF I want to cut down a bit to get my body a bit more in proportion (I was 270 about a year ago but for about 4 months I was more or less starving myself which led to massive loss but alot of muscle)

My goal is to get about 10% BF by Summer but heres the biggest issue:

I have a broken wrist and I cant lift weights, so Im curious, I do cardio 6 days a week would that equate to the same general thing as weight lifting which would make this work for me?

And

I never want to stay on a Keto diet forever, however, I eat very healthy already and only eat 80 G of carbs a day so Im almost on the entering ketosis border line at the moment.

But my concern is, should I start a ketosis diet, would I be able to add calories back when I intend to bulk? I know its a slow process and I have alot of patience, but I hear alot about people gaining all their weight back after stopping a low carb diet however, If I add like 50 carbs a week back once I get to my target weight and eat healthy to maintain it would it work just as well?

Im good at planning meals and Like cooking so im not really worried about that, I just dont want to make the mistake most people make and enter a diet that may backfire if you dont know everything. (I read this entire thread just asked questions that no one really seemed to touch on)

Gonna go start planning meals and hoping for some positive answers

[C-Los]

BlindFaith, (or anyone else who cares to comment)


I noticed that in the sample CKD workout you posted at the beggining of the thread you chose not to have the whole body trained by the end of tuesday. If getting into ketosis faster requires us to dump our glycogen stores than why would you choose to workout a large muscle group as legs so late in the week?



Peace

[miffy]

Some interesting questions on just how far one can vary his own keto diet... would some one with knowledge and experiemce enlighten me please.

1.If i dont want to carb up only on the weekends, whats the absolute minimum number of days i must go before a carb up? 3 days then 1 day carb up? 4?

2.Im terrified of saturated fats as heart disease runs in my family, and i also tend to be slightly deranged.=} is it advisable for all my fat sources to be purely from olive oil, flax oil etc ? im thinking of eating straight chicken breasts for protein and drinking oil.

3. Ive noticed some arbitrary numbers given for 'maximum' grams of carbs a day, but i figured it varies from person to person owing to size etc, im 165 pounds now, what should my absolute max grams from carbs a day be?

4. Is it even advisable to throw in some low carb days in the mix, rather than straight no carb days? If so how 'high' is this 'low'??

Thanks i really appreciate expert views here.

oh and one more thing
5. JUST to clear this carb confusion up.. so max 50 g a day INCLUDING post workout shake? is the carbs in N large ok for this purpose?

Thanks.

[Skunk Man]

Im am 19 years old 5'11'' 226lbs. About 20% bf. i am looking to lose about 30-35lbs and have decided to try a keto diet (CKD) after hearing about the great results people are getting. This is what my diet looks like.

Meal 1: 3 whole eggs, cheddar cheese, 3 strips bacon

Meal 2: 2 pepperoni sticks, string cheese

Meal 3: Grilled Chicken salad Lots of dressing

Meal 4: Same as meal 2

Meal 5: Some type of fatty meat or fish, small salad

Meal 6: (Post Work Out) Whey Protein 2 tbl. spoons natural peanut butter

Advice Welcomed!

Thanks

[Power_inc_1990]

what would be the effect if you went High Protein, low to 0 carbs, low fat, combined with heavy resistance training, and 30 mins., moderate intensity cardio 5 days a week directly after weight training?

[HawkMuscle]

I recopyied my reply from the original Keto thread. I actually went through all 43 pages!!!!! Here it is;

Is the Sugar free fat free jello cool to add as part of the keto diet?I love the stuff.

I also noticed that a lot of you aren't adding cottage cheese to your diet. Any reason for this??? I love cottage cheese.

It's gonna be breath taking to only eat meat and fats!!! Born a carnivore and will die a carnivore!

Brocolli... love the stuff. Great source of fiber and carbs.

I usually go to Carl's Jr. for lunch and have the Low Carb Burger (Fat ass burger w/cheese wrapped in lettuce) served with a side salad and a nice fat packet of Blue Cheese dressing. Good stuff for about 6 bucks.

Any reason I should cut that out of my lunch menu???

Any what about Italian dressing on salads??? Haven't checked the carb content but I doubt that it's much if any.

Just starting the keto out this week and I've already tripped. I ate some waffels on Monday with sugar free syrup. But it was my lack of knowledge that I did this. No more waffels for me! 'Cept on the carb up days!

[cbcortez]

stupid question...

if i lift heavy...like MAX-OT style. i pretty much use up my glycogen. Now if i dont eat carbs at all during that day, what would fuel my training the next day?

Is it the fact that your body has a steady supply of broken down fats (i dont know the scientific term)...that you dont need to mobilize and oxidize the fats to gain the energy?

thanks.

(this is for the purist ketogenics) -- there are those that have tweaked it and consume carbs in their shakes.

[HawkMuscle]

the term is ketogenesis. And your body utilizes the ketones from the fat breakdown as energy. I'm going on 4 week on the keto diet and have never felt better!!! Heres the simplified explanation of the diet. Very little carbs all week 20-30grams a day in the form of fiberous veggies (broccalli, lettuce). On the weekend you carb up. The carb up is supposed to help replenish glycogen stores to help facilitate muscle gains. There is much, much, much more to it. Read some of the stickys to inform yourself.

Hope that helps

[cbcortez]

ahhhh its the ketones themselves fueling the body....got it thanks man.

[HawkMuscle]

Don't forget to read some of the keto stickys. They answer a lot of questions about the diet.

[rinkjustice]

Hi all,
Some great stuff in this thread! I just wanted to inform anyone interested of my "book project", tentatively entitled The Ketogenic Plan is uploaded and is available for your perusal. It can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/rinkjustice1/ketoplan.htm

I've been studying and submitting my body to the rigors of this "diet" for a couple of years now, and I hope my experiences, successes and failures may be of help to someone.

Thanks for listening!

[miffy]

Hello... i tried in vain to search for an answer everywhere.. but..

so ok here goes.. CKD = daily carb max of 30g

question --> do all these 30 g have to be eaten at once (not counting Post WO shake) or if i eat 5g per meal where will that leave me? is that acceptable?

[Charlie Murphy]

Hello... i tried in vain to search for an answer everywhere.. but..

so ok here goes.. CKD = daily carb max of 30g

question --> do all these 30 g have to be eaten at once (not counting Post WO shake) or if i eat 5g per meal where will that leave me? is that acceptable?

No the 30 grams do not need to be eaten all at once. Infact, spreading your carb intake throughout the day and taking in a lot of water will lessen the side affects that keto can cause.

[Very_Skinny_Guy]

milk is a definete no no! as far as veggies go...anything green is good.

Alcohol should be left for friday and saturdays...dont have any during the week.

no tomatos?

[Very_Skinny_Guy]

from:
http://www.geocities.com/rinkjustice1/ketoplan.htm


"When the brain is cut off from glucose and must rely on ketones for it's power supply, the lights may be dim for awhile if you catch my drift. Your computational powers will slow a tad, especially the first time you achieve ketosis. If you're forgetful at the best of times, in ketosis you may walk out the house and go to work without pants on. Your thinking may be cloudy. In truth, symptoms are rarely that severe, but you may be one of the unlucky few who has a really difficult time with the transition. "


first comment I have on that: LOL
second: WTF??!? hell, my brain is worth to me more my body! is this true?

[rinkjustice]

Um yes. I'm actually just getting into ketosis as I post this reply and I feel as dumb as a bag of doorknobs.

But damn, I look good!

[kxtreme]

"So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs. "

I dont get this part. What are you supposed to do on workout days? i workout MWF can you give me an example? you dont eat fats on workout days? i dont get it.

[chimponarope]

You don't eat fat immediately postworkout is all it means.

[kxtreme]

i want to start this diet as soon as possible, but i just recently found out about keto. so is the only difference between this and atkins is the carb load? also when you measure the calories for keto you measure it by the grams multiplying it by the right number ie 1g fat = 9 cals. say a piece of meat has 20g of fat meaning it has 180 cals, do you not count the cals that the nutrition label states it has or what? what if its like 200 cals and 20g of fat, i dont get it.

[kxtreme]

also when someone says for example they are intaking 2,000 cals are they talking about the cals converted from protein and fat? ie (protein x 4)+(fat x 9)= total cals? or is this different from the total cals thats written ont he nutrition label?

[BuildUpNow]

Hi, i was wonder if doing the ckd diet will effect my schoolwork? im in hs and u say its toxic to the brain, weill it lower my intelligence or sumthing? and this is what im planning to do
sun-Bi's
mon-shoulders
tues-legs
wed-chest
thurs-back
fri-rest/cardio ( carb beginning )
sat-rest/cardio

and for my diest im planning to eat proteins and fats only until fri/sat then eat fruits and other carbs with sum proteins and sum fats.

seem like it will work?

[rinkjustice]

I'm debating whether I should remove that comment regarding ketones being toxic on the brain. I don't know if it is... there is speculation (or rather FUD) but no hard evidence either way. Even if it is, it's when you are consistently in ketosis for long periods of time, more than a month straight.

That being said, being in ketosis for the first time can make thinking rather hazy. Just think of how you feel when you're coming down with the flu. You're not actually sick yet, but you feel "bluesy" and worn out. You have a hard time focusing and would rather be laying on the sofa with an XBox controller in your hand than doing whatever else you're doing. These common symptoms of ketosis disappear after a day or so, and you're brain will adjust. If you got a big exam coming up, schedule your carbload to coincide with the day of the exam.

I have some suggestions regarding your routine. Do chest first day, then legs, bi's and tri's, back, shoulders and throw in some cardio those same days. You're overtraining when you workout 6-7 days a week (any more and your training is gonna suck). Keep it to 5 days. Also, never do shoulders before chest and never do arms the first day of your training week. You'll need those smaller muscle groups fresh to lift heavy weights for the bigger muscle groups (chest, back). I'll give you a routine you can try.

Monday - Chest and triceps
Tuesday - Back and Biceps
Wednesday - Quads, Calves and Hamstrings
Thursday - off
Friday - Back (and you can even hit biceps again)
Saturday - Chest and shoulders (or just work shoulders if your pec development is coming along)
Sunday - Day of Rest

Do 20-30 minutes cardio after resistance training, 2-4 times a week.

I would also recommend you suppliment with a post-workout drink (whey protein, glutamine, creatine, dextrose or even table sugar) but not with cereal or any other high-carb solid food. It would be too hard to purge from your glycogen stores and get back into ketosis in a timely manner.

Cheers.

[tsanchez_66]

Okay, I've been following this diet/workout religously for almost six weeks with outstanding results, but now I have a question or two.

First some background...

I'm 38 years old, and started this from what would be considered a "sedentary" lifestyle - I stand around 5'10" and weighed about 194. While I didn't measure using calipers or anything, I would consider that to be around 20% (or more) bodyfat. In the six weeks I've followed the diet, I've not lost much weight, maybe only five or six pounds, but I've lost almost three inches off my waist. In addition, I've greatly improved my strength - for example, when I started out I was doing 3 bench sets of 90, 105 and 120 @ 12, 10 and 8 reps respectively. I'm now doing 120, 135 and 150 @ 12, 10 and 8 and that's reflected on almost every excercise. There's also a visible difference in muscle size overall (larger, not smaller...LOL)

When I started the diet, I assumed my lean weight to be around 165 or so and I tailored my caloric/protein/fat/carb intake according to that:

Protein calorie intake per day: 640
Fat calorie intake per day: 1800
Total daily caloric intake: 2440
Daily carbohydrate intake: less than 25 grams

2440 / 4 meals = 610 calories per meal (160 protien and 450 fat)

Note that in truth, I've been hitting around 500 per meal over 4 meals, plus a daily protein shake made by mixing a single "EAS AdvantEdge Carb control Ready to Drink" shake with 20 extra grams of whey protein and 5 grams of creatine and an evening snack which is usually a hot dog with a couple slices of cheese. I also buffer this with 800 gms of "good" carbs from Friday night to Sunday morning as outlined in the diet.

This all worked great - I always felt full and satisfied for several hours after each meal. Until now. It now seems like I'm getting hungry only an hour or so after each meal. So my questions stem from this...

Have I jacked my metabolism so that the caloric requirements indicated above need to be raised? Is it possible my lean weight is heavier than I estimated thus requiring a higher caloric intake? Is this normal and I need to make my fat butt deal with it? Any ideas or answers or insight appreciated.

-Tim

[Haywood Jablome]

Okay, I've been following this diet/workout religously for almost six weeks with outstanding results, but now I have a question or two.

This all worked great - I always felt full and satisfied for several hours after each meal. Until now. It now seems like I'm getting hungry only an hour or so after each meal. So my questions stem from this...

Have I jacked my metabolism so that the caloric requirements indicated above need to be raised? Is it possible my lean weight is heavier than I estimated thus requiring a higher caloric intake? Is this normal and I need to make my fat butt deal with it? Any ideas or answers or insight appreciated.

-Tim

Tim, it is very possible your metabolism has increased with the new resistance program. I would suggest trying to spread your meals out into 5 or 6 smaller meals if possible. Another suggestion to avoid getting really hungry is adding a couple extra hundred cals if you need to because there's no point in starving yourself. If you find your gaining fat because of these extra cals, add some cardio in to offset that caloric increase. Another suggestion is to add some more fiber to your meals, either supplements or broccoli.

Congrats on the lifestyle change, keep it up!

[Man2kx]

I don't understand this article when it describes 100 grams of liquid carbs. What am I supposed to eat? sugar in water?

[wine]

but if I don't eat any fat, won't I just use "bodyfat" for energy?

[Bigh203]

I'm interested in trying a keto diet but I've always had this ONE question regarding it... What is the ABSOLUTE LIMIT for carbs daily? I mean are we talking nothing over 10 grams a day or even less? I can do it but it will take some re-adjustment time; mainly for breakfast meals.

[Dub_C]

Hey, I'm super interested in this diet plan after reading it, but have come across some huge problems.

So, I began doing calculations to deterimine how many carbohydrates and calories and such I'd have to be ingesting the carb-up day.

My BF is around 35%, possibly a little tiny bit lower. Weight is 210 lbs. Thus, my lean mass weight is around 136 pounds. Or around 62 kg.

"What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg."

Therefore, I should be eating between 620-744 grams of carbohydrates (2480-2976 calories).

That's the first problem. I don't see in any way how 620 carbohydrates is not going to cause me to gain massive amounts of weight. For one, because it's an insane amount of calories in and of itself, not to mention the added calories from the up to 62 grams of fat I'd be consuming. As well as the mandatory 136 grams of protein.

Once totalled, it comes to a whopping 3582 calories a day. Considering I'm used to consuming 1500, maximum 2000 calories a day and maintaining my weight, I don't understand how I could possibly eat that much without gaining insane amounts of weight, as well as upsetting my stomach from eating so much.

Now, once that's been solved, another question.

I've been told that I need to consume carbohydrates in my post-workout shake. True or false? Please ensure that your answer is detailed, as I'm very new to all of this.

Many thanks,

Chris.

[Dub_C]

I don't understand this article when it describes 100 grams of liquid carbs. What am I supposed to eat? sugar in water?


Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that "liquid carbs" could mean orange juice.

I remember reading that on the first or second page, and it was posted by a very refutable source.

30 g whey with Orange Juice. I think that's what he recommended for his post-workout shake.

Nonetheless, can anybody help me out with some of my questions, straight above?

Many Thanks,

Chris.

[Eileen]

Orange juice is not a good choice, since fructose refills liver glycogen rather than muscle glycogen. Dextrose is much better, since it doesn't need to be processed by the liver before the muscles can use it.

30g whey, 15g dextrose is a good start for a post workout shake.

When you are starting a carb-up, you'd normally eat a couple of pieces of fruit before you start your depletion workout, just to kick you out of ketosis, and immediately afterwards, you'd take a big shake, with maybe 50g whey and 50g dextrose.

Table sugar is half fructose, so it's best avoided, even on carb-up.

[Dub_C]

Bump.

Please help.

Many thanks,

Chris.

[NorCALSpeed]

Well I just went to Safeway and picked up my Keto supplies. Bought tuna, chicken, burgers, cheese, eggs, peanut butter (natural) and mayo(for the tuna). I also bought green salad to eat with some meals and broccoli. I'm going to follow the workout routine posted in the beginning, but with some changes:

Abs on weds along with my cardio.
Cardio more than just weds, I'm getting into racquetball, swimming and boxing so at least it's fun.

I have a few questions though:

To add up my calories from food I use the calories in the totals part of package right?
What is a good source of dextrose for friday after lifting?
I've seen a lot of people eating like 6 meals a day, but sometimes that's not always possible for me with work. As long as I get the right number of calories is it ok to eat like 4 a day?
I've heard your body can only process 20g of Protein/ hr. So if I eat like 40g of protein in a meal won't I crap out 20g and not get enough for the day?

Any advice is welcomed, thank you.

[Eileen]

Dextrose is a good source of dextrose. You buy it in 500g bags in the supermarket / health food shop / chemist / on-line. It's cheap, mixes easily and improves the taste of the whey. Failing that, some sports drinks like Gatorade are dex based.

You can certainly do more cardio.

Learn to read package labels. They usually give the count per 100 grams of food, but sometimes, it's per portion, or per packet. Read carefully and see what is on your label, then work out your cals etc accordingly.

A meal doesn't have to be on a plate at the table. A packet of nuts can be a meal too. Try to get six (or more) a day to keep your metabolism in high gear.

[Dub_C]

Eileen, do you think you could offer some insight on my above 2 posts? :)

Thanks,

Chris.

[NorCALSpeed]

What is the attitude toward eating before going to sleep? Sometimes I'm so hungry I won't be able to fall asleep and have to have something. Just som pb or would a whey shake be ok?

[Eileen]

Eileen, do you think you could offer some insight on my above 2 posts? :)

Thanks,

Chris.

I thought I already did. Briefly, those calculations are based on a serious bodybuilder who trains intensely all week long. If you want to lose fat and get a few muscles, you don't need to carb up as much or as long. You can't eat that amount of carbs and not expect spillover unless you have a metabolism like a furnace and workout non-stop.

[HalleluYAH]

You liver only stores enough glycogen to support brain activity and organ functions for about 1/2 to 2/3 of a day. That said, it is important to realize that if your last meal on a Monday (HI or LOW CARB DAY) was at 10:30pm and then the next day is a no-carb day, you could conceivably go up to 36 hours until you consume carbs again (until 8:00am WED). This spells trouble. When liver glycogen stores are empty and blood glucose is running low, your body will go into starvation mode signalling to produce glucose on it's own in order to supply musch needed glucose into liver glycogen. Now since fat is not easily converted into glucose your body will turn to protein intake and/or muscle proeteins and convert them into glucose using a process called gluconeogensis. This leads to wasted protein intake and loss of hard earned muscle.

For some reason fructose (the simple sugar found in fruits) prefers to be stored as liver glycogen versus muscle glycogen which make this the perfect food to consume on no-carb days. I try to eat 2 4oz servings (roughly 12-20g of carbs each) such as two small macintosh apples. One small apple with meal #2 and #3 on no-carb days to keep the body in a fed mode.

[Eileen]

Please read the stickies. Fat is not converted into glucose, but it is converted into ketones, which the brain can use for fuel and the body can use for energy.

There are plenty of studies out there which show that a keto diet is muscle sparing compared with an isocalorie high carb diet.

[truegodfather]

some one really needs to list what you can eat and what you cant.

[Dub_C]

Ok, I figured I'd just put all of my questions into one neat package:



1. What is the point of a carb load, if it only takes 2 days to deplete all your glycogen stores?

2. Does working out with empty glycogen stores put you into a catabolic state?

3. Ok, I've seen Blindfaith say NO to a POW shake with carbs, and I've also seen him say YES to a POW shake with carbs. So my question is, should I or should I not injest a post-workout shake?

4. If the answer to number 3 is "yes", then would that not defeat the purpose of a carb load in the first place? Also, what should the shake consist of?



That's all.

Many thanks,

Chris.

[NorCALSpeed]

You ARE supposed to have a post workout shake cuz it's when your muscles need protein the most.

[Eileen]

When you are in ketosis, you are burning fat. This is something that we want, and we want to allow maximum time to do this. However, ketosis is not ideal for building whacking big muscles, so we take a PWO shake with protein and carbs, and try to take just enough to repair and build our muscles without affecting ketosis.

The carb load is to give the muscles an extra boost, and to provide a refeed which will reset leptin levels and keep the thyroid active etc.

To start with, I'd try a PWO shake of 30g whey, 15g dextrose. If you get back into ketosis quickly after that, you can increase the amounts.

[Dub_C]

Thanks guys, but does working out with empty glycogen stores put you in a catabolic state?

[Eileen]

It will if you have no glycogen in your muscles. We want a depleted liver for ketosis, and muscles stuffed with glycogen so we can lift and build more muscle.

[dstewart414]

So what is the maximum amount of carbohydrates you can consume in a single day on this diet?

[Eileen]

It varies from person to person, and depends on your muscle mass, and your activity level. 20g is a rough guideline figure to start with. It might be better to work from 65% fat, 30% protein and 5% carbs. The dextrose in your post workout shake don't count towards the daily carb figure, but do count in your calorie totals. The protein counts towards both.

So if you were eating 2000 cals a day, your carb cals would be 100, which is 25g carbs. The bulk of those carbs should be coming from green veg, and absolutely not from "net carb" junk foods.

[tekniq]

i read the program and i think it's great, i just have a few questions about the workout days.

is it ok if i start my workout on monday and do a ON/OFF day for working out? such as:

monday: legs/abs
tuesday: rest
wednesday: back/tri's
thursday:rest
friday: chest/bi's
saturday: shoulders/abs
sunday: rest

or is it bad to workout on your carb-loadup days? should i just workout

monday,tuesday,thursday,friday and jsut rest on wednesday and the weekend? which is best?

[tekniq]

The rest of your caloric requirements for the day should be fat. Here is the catch: you must eat fat to burn fat. There’s no way around it. There are many advantages to dietary fat on this diet: Feeling of fullness since fat digestion is slow (less hunger), tastes great, and lowers blood glucose levels (lowering insulin and allow all the fat burning hormones to do their job).

So how much fat? I always recommend starting out with a 500 calorie deficit from your maintenance calories. If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.

2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.

In Case You Missed It

So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.

Some have found to enjoy a protein shake afterwards because they are easily digested. Do whatever works for you. But fat is not logical since you want the protein to fuel the healing process as quickly as possible and fat will only slow it down.

i dont get it...you say monday-friday load up on proteins and fats, but then at the 2nd quote, you said to load up only on carbs on your workout days. so you're basically saying to load up on fats on non-workout days and dont eat much fats on workout days or don't eat fats after your workout. i'm confused. someone help :)

[Eileen]

Work out hard during the week, and eat only fats and protein (apart from a small protein/carb shake post workout). On Friday, eat some fruit, do a whole body depletion workout, and then eat lots of carbs, moderate protein and low fat for the 24 or 36 hours. If you can, rest during that day to allow your body to use all those carbs for muscle building and repair.

[stealth114]

HELLOOOOO !!!!!!!
Its been ages since I posted Phew, good to be back.. I still been buying like crazy from bb.com. Just cant keep off this site for long :) The keto site is impressive and I had done ketp in the past with very good results. Actually gained muscle, alot of energy, great fat loss .However, I had too littoe muscle on me and I lost too much and looked to lean yuk!
Well, its over 18 + months ,gained alot on my bulking phase , Im over 210 lbs.Will like to lose the fat once more and see what gains I got. Nothing for mroe than a month though and then I will slowly resume my bulk phase.
I got my previous keto plan and did all my homework before. All I need to know is should I simply '' plunge into the keto water'' or gradually reduce my calories? I have been on fairly high caloric diet but not like 4-5000 + a day.
Look forward to the answers of CHi ,Fitnessman and others!! Keep up the great work guys/gals. THanks

stealth114

[tekniq]

eileen, so it's ok to eat a lot of fat, (both saturated and unsaturated) during the keto. like today, i had around 5 pieces of mozzerella cheese and 4 pieces of cheddar cheese. both have like 10 grams of fat and 5grams of saturated fat per slice. and i had some pork rines to end my night cravings for food. i also had bacon. so this stuff is ok during the week for the keto diet? and what do you mean by a "whole body depletion" workout?

also, i heard to eat around 30-35g's of carbs after your workout. dextrose based carbs i heard, but doesnt gatorade have a lot of sugar? i don't get the "eating the carbs" after the post workout meal. after my post workout meal, i usually have 3 spoon fulls of EAS whey protein in water. (22g's protein, 3g's of sguar, 3g's of carbs). so you SHOULD take carbs after a workout? im confused

i heard you should eat a lot of nuts and veggies. i eat almonds a lot and natural peanut butter but they still have a decent amount of carbs. around 3-6g's per serving. also, broccoli does have around 3g's per serving and i eat a lot of that too...isn't that a lot of carbs?

[Eileen]

For this diet, subtract fibre from total carbs to get the ones you count. So most green veg works out at 1 or 2g per portion, and nuts are much lower than they first look as well. You do need to eat lots of veg, they should make up the majority of your carbs.

PWO, you want protein and just enough high-gi carbs to cause an insulin spike to enable the muscles to take up and use the protein in your shake. Without the dextrose, your body can't use the protein as efficiently. If you keep the amount small, it should not affect ketosis. 30-35g is too high unless you are huge and doing mega workouts. Try starting with 30g whey, 15g dex.

A whole body depletion workout is one where you work all the major muscles enough to deplete all your stores of glycogen, so that when you start your carb-up, your muscles will grab onto all the carbs going and use them to build more muscle. Typically, it consists of lots of compound moves like squat, deadlift, pull-up, bench press etc done with higher reps and lower weights than usual. Do them as a giant loop and keep repeating until you can't continue without dropping your weights significantly. You're not working to failure, just exhaustion.

No, it's not a good idea to just eat cheese. Not because of the saturated fats, but because it means you are not eating enough other things. You need a variety of eggs, meat, fish, chicken and stuff like that. A bit is fine, but you can't live on cheese.

[Eileen]

For this diet, subtract fibre from total carbs to get the ones you count. So most green veg works out at 1 or 2g per portion, and nuts like almonds and walnuts are much lower than they first look as well. You do need to eat lots of veg, they should make up the majority of your carbs.

PWO, you want protein and just enough high-gi carbs to cause an insulin spike to enable the muscles to take up and use the protein in your shake. Without the insulin spike caused by dextrose, your body can't use the protein as efficiently. If you keep the amount small, it should not affect ketosis. 30-35g is too high unless you are huge and doing mega workouts. Try starting with 30g whey, 15g dex.

A whole body depletion workout is one where you work all the major muscles enough to deplete all your stores of glycogen, so that when you start your carb-up, your muscles will grab onto all the carbs going and use them to build more muscle. Typically, it consists of lots of compound moves like squat, deadlift, pull-up, bench press etc done with higher reps and lower weights than usual. Do them as a giant loop and keep repeating until you can't continue without dropping your weights significantly. You're not working to failure, just exhaustion.

No, it's not a good idea to just eat cheese. Not because of the saturated fats, but because it means you are not eating enough other things and missing out on important stuff like iron. You need a variety of eggs, meat, fish, chicken and stuff like that. A bit is fine, but you can't live on cheese. Bacon tends to have too much nitrates and salt to be used as a staple of your diet. Stick to fresh meat, fresh veg.