wpi high grade hydrolyzed protein

[smeton_yea]

Hi,this is for experts on protein knowledge


wpi(hydrolyzed whey protein high grade)

ast brand uses this kind thats why its soo effective.

www.trueportein .com sells wpi(high grade but without a sweetner)
just pure protein.i would have to add a sweetner.its cheaper than buying ast every month

and if anyone told you all proteins are created equal ...then they must have no knowledge og protein
once you start using better protein youll start seeing better results

protein experts give some light

will brink your thoughts

[Big Cat]

Give me a break, hydrolyzed protein is basically pre-digested. There isn't much protein left, its basically amino acids and some small peptides. The only reason they still call it whey is because it contains the same amino acids. hydrolysation of proteins means the breaking of peptide bonds. That means it has no secundary or tertiary structure to begin with, and on top of that most of its primary structure is degraded as well.

If you consider how fast whey protein is digested and hits the blood, then its basically insane to pay more for something that will be in and out of your body even faster, leading to even greater loss of unused amino acids. Unless of course you were planning on taking 2 grams every 30 minutes ...

That such bull**** is still proclaimed, let alone still believed in a time when people are finally starting to recognize that a whey is NOT the pinnacle of protein is frankly disconcerting to say the least.

[Cosmonaut]

That such bull**** is still proclaimed, let alone still believed in a time when people are finally starting to recognize that a whey is NOT the pinnacle of protein is frankly disconcerting to say the least.
Then im guessing you are more of a whole foods advocate or do you prefer a different type of whey than hydrolyzed?

[Big Cat]

Then im guessing you are more of a whole foods advocate or do you prefer a different type of whey than hydrolyzed?

I'm saying if you have a need for whey, then it doesn't matter one iota whether it is hydrolyzed or what not. In which case the least expensive solution is usually the best one. Whole foods are the basis, sure, but supplemented protein is a great addition. It is however ridiculous to think whey is the summum, I've been working mostly with casein, some whey before the work-out maybe. And its even more ridiculous to then claim you absolutely need a certain type of whey. Between the time you ingest it and the time it hits your blood, all you whey will look exactly the same.

[u5711]

Interesting stuff Big Cat.

[smeton_yea]

Big Cat,is it true you are 17? and you are not big? what are your stats? height and weight? bodyfat percentage?

other than that big cat why dont you research protein

[JnJ23]

wpi hydrolyzed high grade does have more beneftis than your ordinary isolate/concentrate etc... as a matter a fact it is one of the best protein you can have. when protein is hydrolyzed it is split up into smaller chain peptides and amino acids, and that makes it more biologically accessible to the user. it's the most digestible type of protein, and most of it is absorbed through the small intestine, making it that much better...

true protein, offers the best quality of proteins, and this is one they reccommend to all who use whey as a protein source in their diet, not to mention the best prices around.

[lliw]

wpi is the only protine i buy, i only have shakes before and after workout. the rest of my protine comes from tuna, steak, eggs and milk. Tuna is an awsome source i rec, quick and easy.

[SWW007]

I must say I'm no expert but the impression I've been given from a multitude of more experienced lifters and more knowledgeable people is that hydrolyzed whey protein is digested faster and therefore gets more amino acids into your bloodstream after you workout and is often mixed with another type of whey protein to have a sort of short term time release effect. I never really learned the science behind it but it seemed logical to me in the way that it was explained because with the different varieties you were keeping your body topped off so to speak until your postworkout meal where you would consume a whole food meal to stabilize your amino acid pools until your next meal time.

[Patrick Arnold]

Hi,this is for experts on protein knowledge


wpi(hydrolyzed whey protein high grade)

ast brand uses this kind thats why its soo effective.

www.trueportein .com sells wpi(high grade but without a sweetner)
just pure protein.i would have to add a sweetner.its cheaper than buying ast every month

and if anyone told you all proteins are created equal ...then they must have no knowledge og protein
once you start using better protein youll start seeing better results

protein experts give some light

will brink your thoughts


the only advantage i would expect is that this is quicker digesting than other wheys. the amino acid compostion should be exactly the same

other quality forms of whey are already very quickly digested and absorbed. So would pre-digesting it by enzymatic hydrolysis really translate into greater efficacy? I can't really imagine it would. I would like to see more research on this (your link does not work)

Also, quicker digesting does not make a protein superior per se. In fact, most of the time you are better off with a slow digesting protein. The exceptions are times when you want to acheive high amino acid concentrations in the blood quickly - like pre or post training

[Patrick Arnold]

wpi hydrolyzed high grade does have more beneftis than your ordinary isolate/concentrate etc... as a matter a fact it is one of the best protein you can have. when protein is hydrolyzed it is split up into smaller chain peptides and amino acids, and that makes it more biologically accessible to the user. it's the most digestible type of protein, and most of it is absorbed through the small intestine, making it that much better...



the point is though that your digestive system can do this job on other undigested quality wheys (such as WPI) very quickly anyway. so the difference in digestion/absorption should be pretty insignificant

you must have some evidence to show benefit of this

is it less allergenic than whole whey? that might be a plus

just saying "its the best" means nothing

[JnJ23]

the point is though that your digestive system can do this job on other undigested quality wheys (such as WPI) very quickly anyway. so the difference in digestion/absorption should be pretty insignificant

you must have some evidence to show benefit of this

is it less allergenic than whole whey? that might be a plus

just saying "its the best" means nothing


Studies have shown that hydrolyzed proteins with short chain amino acids (di and tri peptides) can increase IGF-1.

[BOMARKSF]

Okay fellas, I'm a newbie here. So, if this question sounds so god-awfully stupid, please go easy on me! I am trying to learn something here and I feel like like an idiot who has stumbled into a room full of geniuses. Having said that, what is the difference, if any, between Ionic Whey Protein and Whey Protein Isolate? Are they indeed the same thing? In all of the reading I have done on this subject so far, there seems to be universal agreement that the Isolate version is the absolute best Whey Protein that you can buy. I have also read that the pros are taking a second look at Casein Whey because it is digested at a slower rate and therefore stays in the system longer. Would someone please take a moment to explain this to me? Thanks for your time.

[Patrick Arnold]

Studies have shown that hydrolyzed proteins with short chain amino acids (di and tri peptides) can increase IGF-1.


references please

[Patrick Arnold]

Okay fellas, I'm a newbie here. So, if this question sounds so god-awfully stupid, please go easy on me! I am trying to learn something here and I feel like like an idiot who has stumbled into a room full of geniuses. Having said that, what is the difference, if any, between Ionic Whey Protein and Whey Protein Isolate? Are they indeed the same thing? In all of the reading I have done on this subject so far, there seems to be universal agreement that the Isolate version is the absolute best Whey Protein that you can buy. I have also read that the pros are taking a second look at Casein Whey because it is digested at a slower rate and therefore stays in the system longer. Would someone please take a moment to explain this to me? Thanks for your time.


Ion exchange whey protein is the most soluble whey protein (dissolves the quickest). However, in the process of making it some of the valuable protein species of the whey are lost and the product ends up being enriched in the least valuable (and most allergenic) protein - beta-lactoglobulin

whey protein isolate (made through membrane ultra filtration) OTOH retains all the original fractions present of the raw whey itself and in the right proportions. the processing only filters out the carbs and the fat. It is the least disruptive whey processing available

[BOMARKSF]

Thanks for your answer Patrick. It's much clearer to me now. You know, given the importance of Whey Isolate, you would think that BB.com would have a search mechanism in place that would sort and list all of the Isolates as a separate category. Unless I've missed something, you can't find them all that way. I have had to go through the volumes of products available and jot down the Isolates. Hope their webmaster reads this! Thanks again.

[G T]

i'd also like to know - is there really anything that makes VP2 superior to low molecular weight non-commercial stuff (eg protein factory)?

will VP2 really result in the best lean gains as so many say it will?

[smeton_yea]

Wpi ,and hydrolyed high grade protein are better than most companys.When i took nitro tech i gained bigtime.I know theres alot of muscletech bashers out there but in all honesty nitrotech worked for me(i dont know what type of protein nitrotech has,but im assuming by there price is high grade protein)

when i started taking ast's vp2 protein i gained.Im still taking it ,buts its too expensive for my budget. Im just going to buy in bulk at www.***********.com
,see if that link works patrick,patrick goodjob on your body from what saw in a flex magazine.Email One of the ast guys they will give you a link on TESTEDRESEARCH if your a non-beliver in high grade protein.Since your such a scientist i want to see you do studies.Btw your gabatropin looks intresting...tell me hows it cross the blood brain barrier?

ive been taking regular gaba for about a year

Not to sidetrack anyone..keep on with the thread..just some questions for patrick

the website is *********** dot com

[Patrick Arnold]

.Since your such a scientist i want to see you do studies.Btw your gabatropin looks intresting...tell me hows it cross the blood brain barrier?



my company has funded many studies, on prohormones and 6-OXO

phenibut, the main constituent in gabatropin, crosses the blood brain barrier because of the addition of a phenyl group to one of the carbons. This makes it more lipophilic.

[Dr Leucine]

references please


go to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed: type: van Loon, LJ
you'll see protein hydrolysate ingestion increases insulin response... The data on IGF-1 isn't that solid...

[Dr Leucine]

Give me a break, hydrolyzed protein is basically pre-digested. There isn't much protein left, its basically amino acids and some small peptides. The only reason they still call it whey is because it contains the same amino acids. hydrolysation of proteins means the breaking of peptide bonds. That means it has no secundary or tertiary structure to begin with, and on top of that most of its primary structure is degraded as well.

If you consider how fast whey protein is digested and hits the blood, then its basically insane to pay more for something that will be in and out of your body even faster, leading to even greater loss of unused amino acids. Unless of course you were planning on taking 2 grams every 30 minutes ...

That such bull**** is still proclaimed, let alone still believed in a time when people are finally starting to recognize that a whey is NOT the pinnacle of protein is frankly disconcerting to say the least.


What about DSM's PeptoPro?? I've seen the data from the casein hydrolysate on a sports-congress in Eindhoven. insulin response is enormous after ingestion...

[Big Cat]

Big Cat,is it true you are 17? and you are not big? what are your stats? height and weight? bodyfat percentage?

other than that big cat why dont you research protein

Add about 8 years. No I'm not that big, At my biggest I was only 252, when cut my best was 225, currently I'm about 210. I do however hold degrees in Molecular biology, earning my degree in biochemistry and took two years of physical therapy. I currently train 13 top level athletes and have trained about 150 over the last 7 years, roughly 400 if you add those that I guide over the internet as well.

I do research protein, but protein is a big field. The last protein (well peptide) I researched was GLP-I, because I consider it a prime target for treatment of obesity. We are currently in the midst of looking for more stable analogues of this peptide for pharmaceutical delivery.

[Big Cat]

Ion exchange whey protein is the most soluble whey protein (dissolves the quickest). However, in the process of making it some of the valuable protein species of the whey are lost and the product ends up being enriched in the least valuable (and most allergenic) protein - beta-lactoglobulin

whey protein isolate (made through membrane ultra filtration) OTOH retains all the original fractions present of the raw whey itself and in the right proportions. the processing only filters out the carbs and the fat. It is the least disruptive whey processing available


Of course all that becomes rather useless if you then denature and hydrolyze the proteins, don't you think ?

[Big Cat]

Thanks for your answer Patrick. It's much clearer to me now. You know, given the importance of Whey Isolate, you would think that BB.com would have a search mechanism in place that would sort and list all of the Isolates as a separate category. Unless I've missed something, you can't find them all that way. I have had to go through the volumes of products available and jot down the Isolates. Hope their webmaster reads this! Thanks again.

You could always shoot the webmaster a PM or a mail, if you think this feature may be handy for people who shop at BB.com

[Patrick Arnold]

go to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed: type: van Loon, LJ
you'll see protein hydrolysate ingestion increases insulin response.....


that comes as no surprise

I would certainly expect it to,

[Patrick Arnold]

Add about 8 years. No I'm not that big, At my biggest I was only 252, when cut my best was 225, currently I'm about 210. I do however hold degrees in Molecular biology, earning my degree in biochemistry and took two years of physical therapy. I currently train 13 top level athletes and have trained about 150 over the last 7 years, roughly 400 if you add those that I guide over the internet as well.

I do research protein, but protein is a big field. The last protein (well peptide) I researched was GLP-I, because I consider it a prime target for treatment of obesity. We are currently in the midst of looking for more stable analogues of this peptide for pharmaceutical delivery.


who is we? what pharmaceutcial company do you work for?

[Patrick Arnold]

Of course all that becomes rather useless if you then denature and hydrolyze the proteins, don't you think ?


If the hydrolysis is done enzmatically then it should really be no different than the digestion that happens in your gut anyway after ingestion

so the answer is, i think, no

[Rippd]

so the question is:

does hydrolyzed whey isolate (because of speed of absorbtion) create a more anabolic environment as opposed to non hydrolyzed whey?

[WillBrink]

Hi,this is for experts on protein knowledge


wpi(hydrolyzed whey protein high grade)

ast brand uses this kind thats why its soo effective.

www.trueportein .com sells wpi(high grade but without a sweetner)
just pure protein.i would have to add a sweetner.its cheaper than buying ast every month

and if anyone told you all proteins are created equal ...then they must have no knowledge og protein
once you start using better protein youll start seeing better results

protein experts give some light

will brink your thoughts

My thought is, there may be some uses for hydrolyzed whey proteins, but I doubt they will have any additional effects on what matters: changes in body comp of healthy weight lifting humans. It’s also a timing issue as the semi useful slow vs fast protein studies pointed out. As Pat mentions, fast is by no means superior under all conditions. There is not a drop of real data showing these proteins are superior in healthy people. And, as I have pointed out, the real strength of whey is its ability to raise GSH and hydrolysis may negatively effect that also, though that will depend on other things like method, % hydrolyzed, etc. Finally, it’s really a marketing trick. Proteins that are fully hydrolyzed down to peptides of short length and aminos , tastes like crap. I have many more comments I could make, but I think that covers the essential points. If you have not already read my lengthy articles on whey, see:


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/willbrink3.htm

[smeton_yea]

If i Drink(ill pick a brand i drink now) Dymatize Elite(butter cream toffee mix) ; It'll sit in my stomach,and ill have to keep still or ill get an upset stomach.

On the other hand,if i take ast's vp2 ,im fine.

Im a student and im on the run in the morning,so i take vp2 in the mornings on schooldays.

Point is vp2 doesnt just sit there.vp2 is better

[JnJ23]

so the question is:

does hydrolyzed whey isolate (because of speed of absorbtion) create a more anabolic environment as opposed to non hydrolyzed whey?


yes, considering efficient digesting...

[smeton_yea]

hydrolyzed whey and wpI hydrolyed whey are way better than whey. ..NICE=)

[Big Cat]

who is we? what pharmaceutcial company do you work for?

Its not a company, its the university of brussels.

[Big Cat]

If i Drink(ill pick a brand i drink now) Dymatize Elite(butter cream toffee mix) ; It'll sit in my stomach,and ill have to keep still or ill get an upset stomach.

On the other hand,if i take ast's vp2 ,im fine.

Im a student and im on the run in the morning,so i take vp2 in the mornings on schooldays.

Point is vp2 doesnt just sit there.vp2 is better

if you have a weak stomach, poor digestion, lots of stress or are lactose intolerant, yes. Otherwise just drink milk. Its cheap, its easy to get, doesn't take any preparation, mixing, shaking or stirring and goes well with most foods. It's 450-650 calories per liter, well-balanced (48g of carbs, 32g of protein, 15g of fat) meal, low insulin response, high in calcium.

[Big Cat]

yes, considering efficient digesting...

Yes, but protein loss is also greater, which leaves the question up in the air which is more anabolic over time. With casein there is a net protein gain, with whey there is a net protein loss... (Boirie et al, 1997)

[wicked2night]

Yes, but protein loss is also greater, which leaves the question up in the air which is more anabolic over time. With casein there is a net protein gain, with whey there is a net protein loss... (Boirie et al, 1997)

So what you would really want is hydrolyzed casein protein, right?
I'm planing on using hydrolized casein(50% hydralysed) mixed with microfiltered whey.

[Rippd]

Yes, but protein loss is also greater, which leaves the question up in the air which is more anabolic over time. With casein there is a net protein gain, with whey there is a net protein loss... (Boirie et al, 1997)

For post workout I do a scoop of VP2, 35 grms. dextrose but then I follow it up with a food meal within 30 minutes so would that counter the protein loss?

[JnJ23]

Yes, but protein loss is also greater, which leaves the question up in the air which is more anabolic over time. With casein there is a net protein gain, with whey there is a net protein loss... (Boirie et al, 1997)

at the right time, it's all useful...

for other times, you would want casein blend, or even hydrolyzed casein which has many benefits.

[Patrick Arnold]

If i Drink(ill pick a brand i drink now) Dymatize Elite(butter cream toffee mix) ; It'll sit in my stomach,and ill have to keep still or ill get an upset stomach.

On the other hand,if i take ast's vp2 ,im fine.

Im a student and im on the run in the morning,so i take vp2 in the mornings on schooldays.

Point is vp2 doesnt just sit there.vp2 is better


then your problem may be a protein allergy to whey. maybe the pre-hydrolysis of the whey destroys the allergenic proteins.

[smeton_yea]

Im Just going to stick WORKS FOR ME BETTER.


BTW the guy who made th comment that takes thirty five grams of protein postraining with d4extose then has a meal thirty minutes later...yes thats fine...your following the ast method,which im also following,Its Working.

Casein is Good before bed.(*ex.cottege cheese)

Its really very simple,Stick to the basics and you wont go wrong.

[Big Cat]

So what you would really want is hydrolyzed casein protein, right?
I'm planing on using hydrolized casein(50% hydralysed) mixed with microfiltered whey.

No, the whole point of casein is that it digests slowly and slows gastric emptying to give you a time release effect and long term positive nitrogen balance. If you hydrolyze it you lose that, then its just the same thing as hydrolyzed whey, cept the amino make up is different. Hydrolyzed stuff is utter crap. As long as you can digest, you don't need predigested protein, simple as that.

[Big Cat]

For post workout I do a scoop of VP2, 35 grms. dextrose but then I follow it up with a food meal within 30 minutes so would that counter the protein loss?

If its sufficiently high in various proteins, of course.

[Patrick Arnold]

No, the whole point of casein is that it digests slowly and slows gastric emptying to give you a time release effect and long term positive nitrogen balance. If you hydrolyze it you lose that, then its just the same thing as hydrolyzed whey, cept the amino make up is different. Hydrolyzed stuff is utter crap. As long as you can digest, you don't need predigested protein, simple as that.


yeah thats what my intuition tells me too but I do still want to look at this with an open mind. If there is research showing the hydrolyzed stuff has unexpected benefits than i am interested in seeing it

i am always running into research which turns everything i thought i knew upside down, so I am not going to completely write off this stuff quite yet

[wicked2night]

No, the whole point of casein is that it digests slowly and slows gastric emptying to give you a time release effect and long term positive nitrogen balance. If you hydrolyze it you lose that, then its just the same thing as hydrolyzed whey, cept the amino make up is different. Hydrolyzed stuff is utter crap. As long as you can digest, you don't need predigested protein, simple as that.

Well the casein is 50% hydrolyzed that means that from one scoop you would get 15g of hydrolyzed-fast absorbing protein and 15g of casein wich releses through time. And with that i'll be adding whey for an absorbtion rate in between.
So your first two sentence doesen't make sense to me.

[Patrick Arnold]

Well the casein is 50% hydrolyzed that means that from one scoop you would get 15g of hydrolyzed-fast absorbing protein and 15g of casein wich releses through time. And with that i'll be adding whey for an absorbtion rate in between.
So your first two sentence doesen't make sense to me.



that is not what 50% hydrolyzed means

It basically means that you have reduced the (average) size of the protein molecules by 50% through enzymatic hydrolysis. I say average because some molecules may be very hydrolyzed while some may be just a little. Most would fall in between that though

100% hydrolyzed would mean that you reduced the casein completely down to their constituent amino acids

[JWangSDC]

QUestion for Big Cat.


Does that mean you wouldn't recommend ingesting hydrolyzed whey protein RIGHT AFTER A WORKOUT? I would imagine in that situation only, or immediately after you wake up, it might be of some benefit?

[BiggJohn]

So what's everybody overall consensus? Is WPC just as good as WPI if your diet can absorb the extra fat and carbs?

[Doctorx79]

wpi hydrolyzed high grade does have more beneftis than your ordinary isolate/concentrate etc... as a matter a fact it is one of the best protein you can have. when protein is hydrolyzed it is split up into smaller chain peptides and amino acids, and that makes it more biologically accessible to the user. it's the most digestible type of protein, and most of it is absorbed through the small intestine, making it that much better...

true protein, offers the best quality of proteins, and this is one they reccommend to all who use whey as a protein source in their diet, not to mention the best prices around.

Yeah your right about the Biological value but a high quality protein isnt just BV you have to se with the PDCAAS.

[italionstallion]

So what's everybody overall consensus? Is WPC just as good as WPI if your diet can absorb the extra fat and carbs?

i would have to say i have truly seen better results using wpi over wpc, albeit they might not be hugely better, but they are still better. as far as wpi products i would have to say gf pro rasb lemonade (which is what im using right now and almost out of) is on the top of my list, but i just ordered some vpx zero carb protein, cytostport cytopro, ast vp2, and some nectar. the nectar i had in the past was not nearly as good as the gf pro, and i think all the nectar lovers should give gf pro a try because imo it is much better, but i did just buy some nectar-everyone needs to change things up now and then.

[Doctorx79]

You should try the Substance WPI from Primaforce.
Taste awesome and a high quality protein.

[italionstallion]

You should try the Substance WPI from Primaforce.
Taste awesome and a high quality protein.

lol, i agree, it is good, good enough that i have a little bit of grape sitting in my pantry right now. haha

[Andrew69]

So what's everybody overall consensus? Is WPC just as good as WPI if your diet can absorb the extra fat and carbs?
Provided the overall amount is similar, I doubt whether anyone would see any huge difference in gains.
Of course Im sure someone will disagree :D

[italionstallion]

yeah, i do, read my post above

[smeton_yea]

little gains over time add up to alot and have an advantage over the one who didnt come across a bunch a little gains

and yes big gains are the best

[zendo]

Hello Sir,

Would you endorse a post workout mix of...

1 scoop GF Pro
5 to 10 grams of Giant Nutrition WPH
10 grams of Nutragammax (in addition to the serum in GF Pro)

If not, how would you tweak this?

Thanks for your time,

Zendo

[REPSforumRep]

There are different grades of WPH as some have stated. If you are still interested in WPH then you should look for a grade of any where from 15-20% hydrolyzed. VPX's WPH is only around 4% if you call and ask them. That is why it tastes so good. Anything-above 25% hydrolysis tastes like vomit and smells like ammonia. As far as I know no one makes a 100% hydrolyzed WPH. I personally use a 20% WPH and can actually feel the speed of absorption. However I need to take it with carbs or else my blood sugar drops below 80 30 minuets after ingestion. WPH is the fastest absorbing form of the Whey family [1]. It delivers the full amino acid profile in 80 minutes and is the least allergenic form of whey protein, as it has already gone through an enzyme bath and is partially pre-digested. WPH also contains virtually no fat, lactose, and cholesterol.

[1] Calbet JA, MacLean DA. Plasma glucagon and insulin responses depend on the rate of appearance of amino acids after ingestion of different protein solutions in humans. J Nutr. 2002 Aug;132(8):2174-82.

Bellow is a small amount of information from David L. Barr.

"Back when it first came out, whey protein was pretty kick ass because it was discovered to be very high quality. Then research came out that made it even more kick ass, because we could classify it as a "fast" digesting protein compared to casein (Boirie et al., 1997).

You know what? This research stands today, because compared to casein, whey protein really is fast! Then again, a tortoise is also fast compared to a snail, but that doesn?t mean we want to take a tortoise to a greyhound park. In other words, we?ve been considering whey a "fast" protein only because we?ve been comparing it to something incredibly slow. When we compare the digestibility of whey to the gold standard of amino acids, on which we base nearly all of our post workout nutritional data, whey flat out sucks.

This is incredibly frustrating because all of the ways to maximize protein synthesis we?ve been discussing have used amino acids. So we need to either use pure amino acids or use something that closely resembles their absorptive properties. This is where whey protein hydrolysate comes in. The protein is already broken up into large peptides, so we get a rapid absorption with peak levels reaching the blood at around 80 minutes (Calbet and MacLean, 2002), compared to 60 minutes for pharmaceutical grade amino acids (Borsheim et al., 2002).

Unfortunately, even the highly touted whey isolate is completely useless for our timing purposes here, because it just takes too long to get taken up by the gut (Dangin et al., 2002).

In light of these data and the growing body of literature contradicting the versatility and usefulness of whey protein, it should henceforth be classified as "moderate" or "intermediate" speed protein, with only whey hydrolysate and amino acids existing as truly "fast."

It may be difficult to adjust our thinking, but this is simply more dogma that needs to be destroyed in order to bring us up to date with the proper application of research.

The main competitor for the title of best protein is whey isolate, but after reading the following you'll see that it comes in a distant second to hydrolysate. Although you wouldn't have to worry about a catabolic decline in blood aminos with whey isolate, it has its own problems.

Even though it used to be considered very high quality, whey isolate takes more than two full hours to elevate blood amino acid levels so that they reach desired levels (Dangin et al., 2002). Having an absorption time one third longer than hydrolysate, whey isolate will give a smaller peak in amino acid levels and reduced protein synthesis stimulation as shown in Figure 2. In other words, we can have a peak twice as high or one that lasts twice as long for a given quantity of protein ingestion, but we can't have it both ways.

It's been shown that consuming amino acids in two separate doses after a workout will give two distinct but equally high spikes in protein synthesis (Borsheim et al., 2002). Either a pre or post-workout serving of WPH followed by another 80 minutes later should give the desired doubling effect. This concept is illustrated in Figure 3 with whey hydrolysate consumption.



Figure 3. Extrapolated protein synthesis levels following consumption of whey hydrolysate at time 0 and again 80 minutes later.*

Again, trying this with whey isolate is useless, because it just doesn't have the optimal absorption qualities we need.

Here's another valuable tip: the post-workout nutrient window for muscle protein synthesis will last at least 24 hours (Tipton et al., 2003), so another serving when you're fasted (i.e. the first meal of the day) will most likely elicit the same exaggerated effect of stimulating protein synthesis!"


You can find WPH here:
http://search.bodybuilding.com/search?q=whey+protein+hydrolysate&spell=1&site=wwwbodybuilding&filter=0&output=xml_no_dtd&client=wwwbodybuilding&access=p&proxystylesheet=wwwbodybuilding&getfields=description&oe=UTF-8

[REPSforumRep]

I forgot that there is one company that makes a high percentage WPH, but it is around 45-50 dollars a pound unflavored.

[REPSforumRep]

Yes, but protein loss is also greater, which leaves the question up in the air which is more anabolic over time. With casein there is a net protein gain, with whey there is a net protein loss... (Boirie et al, 1997)

You might find the following study interesting in that the researchers used experienced male bodybuilders and not college freshmen who like to collect stamps:

The International Journal of Sports Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism, examined the effects of supplementation with different proteins, namely hydrolyzed whey protein and casein, on muscle strength and body composition during a 10 week, supervised resistance training program Importantly, this study was conducted on experienced male bodybuilders. In a double-blind protocol, these guys supplemented their normal diet with either whey hydrolysate or casein (1.5 grams per kilogram of body mass/day). What happened? Well, this well-controlled study indicated that:
1. The whey hydrolysate group achieved a significantly greater gain in lean body mass than the casein group (5.0 vs. 0.8 kilograms). Also, the whey hydrolysate group lost significantly body fat while the casein group gained body fat (-1.5 vs. +0.2 kilograms).

2. The whey hydrolysate group also achieved significantly greater improvements in muscle strength (measured by barbell bench press, squat and cable pull-down) compared to the casein group in each assessment of strength. Furthermore, when the strength changes were expressed relative to body weight, the whey group still achieved significantly greater improvements in strength compared to the casein group.

In conclusion, it is becoming increasingly clear that high-quality whey protein hydrolysate is the best source of protein for serious strengh-power athletes. The lean body mass gains observed in the whey hydrolysate group of 5 KILOGRAMS is truly nothing short of phenomenal in a trained athlete. Indeed, the superiority of whey protein hydrolysate may have something to do with its insulin boosting actions and its extremely rapid absorption and uptake.2 Interestingly enough, this study also demonstrated whey hydrolysate ingestion promoted fat loss; high-quality whey has ACE-inhibitory activy, which leads to inhibition of storage fat synthesis in fat tissue. This new research clearly helps to shed some light on why athletes using WPH products are achieving such rapid and significant muscle growth.

1. Cribb PJ et al. Int J Sports Nutr Exerc Metab 2006;16(5).
2. Manninen AH. Br J Sports Med. 2006 Sep 1; [Epub ahead of print].

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A recent study at the Copenhagen Muscle Research Center was implemented to determine the effects different protein-containing solutions have on insulin response and amino acid availability in healthy humans. Four different solutions of 600 milliliters were used in this study. The glucose solution (control) contained only glucose, and the three additional solutions contained the same quantity of glucose and protein, but proteins were derived from different sources. This study indicated that:

1. Ingestion of glucose and protein hydrolysate results in synergistic and fast increases in blood insulin. In fact, protein hydrolysates stimulated an increase in blood insulin that was two and four times greater than that produced by the intact (non-hydrolyzed) milk protein solution and glucose solution, respectively.

2. Protein hydrolysates are absorbed at a faster rate from the small intestine than are intact milk proteins, as reflected by the rapid increase in the blood concentration of branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) in peripheral blood.

3. Whey protein hydrolysate elicited the greatest availability of amino acids during the three-hour postprandial (occurring after a meal) period. This difference was attributed to the rapid increase in blood amino acids evoked during the first 40 minutes of the digestive period, during which the increase was about 37% greater after the ingestion of whey protein hydrolysate solution than that after ingestion of the intact milk protein solution. The authors suggested that the association of high levels of blood amino acids and insulin might explain a superiority of protein hydrolysates over intact proteins in promoting better nitrogen utilization (i.e., greater anabolism), especially when administered in combination with high glycemic carbohydrates.

Calbet JA, MacLean DA. Plasma glucagons and insulin responses depend on the rate of appearance of amino acids after ingestion of different protein solutions in humans. J. Nutr. 2002 Aug;132(8):2174-82.