1AD contradiction question

[USe2BSmall]

Ive read the Big Cats prohormone articles(yes all of it), Ive read multiple forum reviews and product info. I finally came to the decision to take a 1AD, 4AD cycle mainly because 1AD seemed to have all the benefits I wanted for a price I was willing to pay and low reported side effects and for the most part the side effects were androgenic rather than estrogenic.

In Big Cats article he says (sorry to put you on the spot)
Quote:
all 1AD currently available is diol. Again that means no estrogenic conversion prior, but none post-conversion either because 1-test doesn't aromatize............and cannot under any circumstances form estrogen.

The major downsides to 1AD: physiologically the only side-effect reported so far is a loss of libido, to which Patrick Arnold himself replied that it may best be stacked with 4-diol if this worries you

On bodybuilding.com under the ergopharm 1AD information and order webpage it says
Quote:
Patrick wanted this prohormone to be Completely Non-Aromatizable to Estrogens.

The same goes for 1-AD itself — no estrogen transformation can occur!
It means that your chances of getting gynecomastia (bitch tits) from 1-AD is essentially zero.

However on the bottle of 1AD it says:
"side effects include acne, hair loss, hair growth on the face (in women), aggressiveness, irritability, and increased levels of estrogen."

If 1AD cannot convert to estrogen, prior or post and it is truly non-aromatizable, then why would side effects include increased levels of estrogen? It seems like the rest of the side effects are androgenic. I am currently taking 1AD and 4AD and absolutely love it. The gains have been very impressive with very little sides and I will definately continue to use them for my cycles. I just found the estrogen issue on the bottle odd and wanted know some facts and truths behind them. If anyone could help i would appreciate it.

[Danz]

If you increase all the male hormones in the body, then there is a good chance you will also increase the female hormones (estrogen). However, you don't really hear people having huge estrogenic related complications with 1-AD. The warnings on the label are just precautionary so that the supplement companies have there backs covered legally.

If it really bothers you, you could always incorporate some Nolvadex into your cycle.

[meathead198]

If you increase all the male hormones in the body, then there is a good chance you will also increase the female hormones (estrogen). However, you don't really hear people having huge estrogenic related complications with 1-AD. The warnings on the label are just precautionary so that the supplement companies have there backs covered legally.

If it really bothers you, you could always incorporate some Nolvadex into your cycle.

I think it is referring to post cycle.

If you take 1AD, it converts to 1-Test in the liver. This surpresses natural test production and increases oestrogen.

When you stop the 1AD, you will no longer have the artificial 1-Test in your system, neither will you have any natural test. But estrogen levels will be very high. Thats why you need to do PCT.

[Big Cat]

Actually its a standard warning they place on prohormone products, there are no risks of estrogenic side-effects with 1AD. The biggest problems are lethargy, painful and frequent urination, loss of appetite, upsets stomach and loss of libido.

[phospodar]

Painful urination? Not to ask a loaded question, but is that a symptom seen across the board or just one of those "it happens to a few, so we list it" type things? And if it's common, what's a good remedy for it (first one to say "dont use 1-AD gets slapped!)?

And given the amount of water I drink in a day, I don't think I could HAVE any more frequent urination ;)

[USe2BSmall]

Thanks for all your replies, in addition to posting this question on forums I also emailed ergopharm, Joe yager specifically and this was his reply, which is almost exactly what Big Cat said earlier:

"The label on the 1-ad is a standard label for all prohormones. So it will cover all the side effect that could come up with PH. You are correct that 1-ad will not convert to estrogens. Also if your taking 1-ad then no need t take 60xo during the same cycle. If your taking 4-ad with the 1-ad then I would take the 6-oxo for a post cycle for 4-5 weeks to help get your body back to normal. i hope this helps let me know if I can help out from here."

Joe Yager
Proviant Technologies, Inc./ ErgoPharm
Customer Service/ Inside Sales

[pu12en12g]

Thanks for all your replies, in addition to posting this question on forums I also emailed ergopharm, Joe yager specifically and this was his reply, which is almost exactly what Big Cat said earlier:

"The label on the 1-ad is a standard label for all prohormones. So it will cover all the side effect that could come up with PH. You are correct that 1-ad will not convert to estrogens. Also if your taking 1-ad then no need t take 60xo during the same cycle. If your taking 4-ad with the 1-ad then I would take the 6-oxo for a post cycle for 4-5 weeks to help get your body back to normal. i hope this helps let me know if I can help out from here."

Joe Yager
Proviant Technologies, Inc./ ErgoPharm
Customer Service/ Inside Sales

He almost makes it sound as if no PCT is needed with 1-AD

:eek:

[biffterol]

I am slightly lost here. I thought taking 1AD and 4AD was a good stack to prevent any side effects.
Now from Joe Yagers comment I undertsand that if 1AD is stacked with 4AD one should take 6-OXO between cycles to prevent the rise of estrogen.
I currently have gyno (only minor and have had it since I remember). My hormone tests showed that I am in normal range, However I believe I have a high estrogen level because I have the smooth skin and water retention which indicates high estrogen levels. What would the consequences be if i were to take 1AD alone, 1AD and 4AD without 6-OXO or 6-OXO alone?
I'm getting the Gyno cut out before the end of the year, but i want to get the testosterone levels up high and I reckon I need either PH or anabolics, Anabolics I do not want to have anything to do with, so the only option is something like 1AD unless anyone has any other suggestions?

[the_invince]

you take 4ad with 1-ad to decrease side effects like: loss of libido, lethargy, and loss of apetite. don't generalize that to all androgenic side effects. 4ad converts to testosterone however, and both 4ad and testosterone carry with them the risk of becoming estrogens, which is why 6-oxo was advised in that instance. it's not necessary to take it, but if you believe you're prone and want to cover all your bases then by all means take it.

[russ2489]

you take the 6-oxo after your 1ad 4ad cycle, correct?
4 weeks 1ad 4ad
4 weeks 60x0
and thats an 8 week cycle


you take 4ad with 1-ad to decrease side effects like: loss of libido, lethargy, and loss of apetite. don't generalize that to all androgenic side effects. 4ad converts to testosterone however, and both 4ad and testosterone carry with them the risk of becoming estrogens, which is why 6-oxo was advised in that instance. it's not necessary to take it, but if you believe you're prone and want to cover all your bases then by all means take it.

[the_invince]

you take the 6-oxo after your 1ad 4ad cycle, correct?
4 weeks 1ad 4ad
4 weeks 60x0
and thats an 8 week cycle

yes, generally you would take the 6-oxo after the ph cycle. however you can also take it while on cycle(though it's not necessary) to decrease the probability of estrogen related sides.

[russ2489]

interesting, i guess i never thought of that, i was only thinking of pct, what should the dosages be if you were to take it while on the cycle, low dosages im assuming?

[MADDOGG]

if your body has a jacked up testosterone level you body will naturall try to bring it down or raise estrogen levels to try and even it out.

[ezhoes]

yes, generally you would take the 6-oxo after the ph cycle. however you can also take it while on cycle(though it's not necessary) to decrease the probability of estrogen related sides.

6-oxo wont do much for gyno. You need to find some nolva and then lay off of the 1-ad for at least 6 monthes before your next cycle. With nolva(aka nolvadex) you can keep your gains alot better too.
heres a good pct for 1-ad
week1 40mg nolva, 600mg 6-oxo, 5g trib
week2 20mg nolva, 400mg 6-oxo, 5g trib
week3 10mg nolva, 300mg 6-oxo, 3g trib
week4 10mg nolva, 300mg 6-oxo, 3g trib