How much protein can the body absorb in one sitting?

[extreme4377]

My question is just that. How much protein can you body absorb in one sitting? And how often can you intake more protein?

For example, say I have a protein shake with 34g of protein, can I have another and still absorb all 68g of protein or do I need to wait a certain amount of time and if so, how long? Thanks!

[matt04]

It all depends on your body and how damaged your muscles are (ie: how hard you worked out). When you work out you make micro-tears in your muscles, and when they grow back, they grow back stronger, hence your muscles get bigger. Protein and protein bonds are the stuff that makes this growing happen. So if you're a big dude who kills it at the gym 68 grams sounds good; otherwise any protein not put into muscle growth turns into fat. BTW, ideally you should consume 1g of protein per pound of body weight, and protein shakes should not be your main source of protein.

[himmy]

I had the same question. Matt, I think Extreme means that IF he does take all that protein in one shot, will it all get absorbed? Or is there some limit to the amount of protein you can actually use at once (and the rest would be wasted??) I was actually wondering the same thing...

- Himmy

[zuche]

no more than 100 an hour from what i know...
including a shake with a steak, fish, and or wheat could easily reach that amount.

[zuche]

i guess ill break it down

you want most calories after your workout rather than before because thats when your muscles are begging for nurtrients.

but if its a night workout you dont want too many carbcalories unless your trying to stack pretty heavily ( inc good fats)

honestly i intake my protein through 6 sittings

breakfast

meal sup or shake or pro bar

lunch

repeat shake

workout

dinner

light snack.

fruit veggies and multi's inbetween.

so all in all yes you can consume 68 after ur workout,
but i would reccomend the shake being about 20 grams 10 mins after workout. then the dinner 20 - 30 mins seperate or vise versa.

[extreme4377]

thanks guys that usually works out perfectly for me. I usually workout around 5:00 PM until about 5:50 and go have a shake right away then eat dinner around 6 or 6:05. I really appreciate all the of help! :)

[Dr Leucine]

There is really no data available about how much protein can be taken up by the body. Probably the best thing to do is to take 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram bodyweight divided over 5-7 servings. You should not only consume protein shakes, that's a waist of money. Just eat a lot of lean meat and dairy products.

[RACKITUP]

Personally its better to take in too much protein and waste some than not taking in enough, eat up :D shoot for 2g+ per pound BW and seperate over 6/7 meals

[SeaHawk22]

no more than 100 an hour from what i know...
including a shake with a steak, fish, and or wheat could easily reach that amount.

Thats insane. Where did you hear that? Even on AS your body would not require 100 grams an hour. If you slept 8 hrs a day and were awake 16hrs that would be 1600grams a day. I dont care how much water you drink your kidneys would be f()cked. I am not trying to come off as an A$$ but it is dangerous if someone interprets your statement that it is beneficial to eat even half that amount.


SeaHawk22

[John Benz]

I would limit the size of whey shakes more so than anything else. There is nothing wrong with eating a meal containing 60-90 grams of whole food protein, your body will break it down slowly enough that it shouldn't cause any problems. When you start talking about blended proteins it has been my experience that you can take in a larger amount of protein at one time. I normally shoot for 50-60 grams per shake, when I am using a relatively slow digesting protein with a lot of casein in it, like Optimum Complete Protein Diet or Beverly Ultra Size.

When more than 30-35 grams of whey is used at one time, it is absorbed too quickly, and what the body cannot assimilate for tissue repair is oxidized for energy. If you don't work it off, it ends up around the old waistline. The latest research has found that more whey protein is oxidized for energy than was first thought. Most people should limit their intake of whey at a single sitting to approx 30 grams. Again these numbers are quite arbitrary, and everyone will respond differently. Mixing whey with milk, adding peanut butter or flax will probably help some, though it won't help as much as some people might think.

The best bet is to invest in a blended protein, or at least some casein protein to add in with the whey, as this will provide a slower digestion rate and will increase the npu (net protein utilization) of the protein. Just as a side note recent studies have found that the npu of whey is actually lower than that of casein and egg white protein.

Last, but not least, barring post-workout, all protein powders are inferior to whole food proteins and are simply a matter of convenience. The key to continuous muscle growth is to keep the body anabolic throughout the day by maintaining a constant positive nitrogen balance. Too much emphasis is placed on post-workout nutrition, and not enough on keeping the body anabolic all day long.

The most important thing to remember is to drink enough water to aid the kidneys in the processing of this much protein. A person doing steroids will see a difference in gains when upping the protein intake to 2 gms per lb. 1 to 1 1/2 gms is plenty for a guy just starting out and taking nothing but protein powder and creatine.

[Big Cat]

Thats insane. Where did you hear that? Even on AS your body would not require 100 grams an hour. If you slept 8 hrs a day and were awake 16hrs that would be 1600grams a day. I dont care how much water you drink your kidneys would be f()cked. I am not trying to come off as an A$$ but it is dangerous if someone interprets your statement that it is beneficial to eat even half that amount.


I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.

[Dr Leucine]

I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.

Yep, BIG CAT you're absolutely right!!!

[SeaHawk22]

I just wanted to make it clear that the statement could have been interpreted that it was "beneficial" to take upto 100grams and hour. I see nothing wrong with taking 400 grams a day. I do during periods.


Bigcat
Because your body can absorb does not mean that it is beneficial. I have read your stickies and your "best of" stuff in the AS section I respect your statements. I just dont want my statements do be perceived differently than I wanted them to be.


SeaHawk22

[Big Cat]

I just wanted to make it clear that the statement could have been interpreted that it was "beneficial" to take upto 100grams and hour. I see nothing wrong with taking 400 grams a day. I do during periods.


Bigcat
Because your body can absorb does not mean that it is beneficial. I have read your stickies and your "best of" stuff in the AS section I respect your statements. I just dont want my statements do be perceived differently than I wanted them to be.


SeaHawk22

I'm sure its not what you intended, but that's how it came across ...

The person saying you could absorb up to 100 grams an hour was NOT suggesting you needed 100grams every hour. Your post could be perceived as hurtful or condescending.

[wolfie5368]

I can only tell you what i have read and taken in myself..
60grams at once is in just about every atical ive read anymore and your body goes intestinal distress (stinky ass farts) or so it says lol........
at 160 you should hammer 2grams of protein per pound of bodyweigh and for you thats about 42-43 grams per meal at 5meals a day so you dont have to worry about that till you hit 200lbs

[inabakoshi]

i read stg abt kidney problem....my friend...who maybe dunno much abt bio...he stopped taking since grade 9 i think...says hes gonna get kidey problem from taking protein and creatine by reading an article...but issit alright to take the required amt? like 250g for my bw (133 pounds)? he's stopped taking them altogether...which i think doesnt make sense...

[wolfie5368]

You will be fine muscle is built from protein you need it to build muscle!!!
I try to take in 300 to 400 grams a day with 10 grams of createin a day also..
I dont take createin 365days a year but thats cause of taste and bordomand also try to drink 80 oz of water a day if you can drink alot more but no less..
Here's somthing that caught my eye your friend is only in 9th grade??
MAke it a law for your body sake not to take alot of supplaments make it whole foods instead

[pu12en12g]

I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.

Great post.

[inabakoshi]

nah...we r both uni students...he dun like bio and stopped taking in the ninth grade....thanks anyway

[BMike]

Big Cat .. what are talking about? our ancestors ?
... Do you know the life expectancy 10000 years ago! Think about it!
We have whats called scientists and biologist these days, I think they carry a little more knowlegde than 8-10 thousand years ago ;)

[Big Cat]

Big Cat .. what are talking about? our ancestors ?
... Do you know the life expectancy 10000 years ago! Think about it!
We have whats called scientists and biologist these days, I think they carry a little more knowlegde than 8-10 thousand years ago ;)

Life expectancy has increased as a result of the discovery of anti-biotics and other medical progressions. However, the difference in diet between then and now is often the cause or at the very least a contributing factor to one of the primary causes of death or incapacity, namely cardiovascular disease. The high intake of sodium and the low intake of unsaturated fats, are directly correlated to incidences of cardiovascular problems. Less sodium and more poly-unsaturated fats decreases chance of heart problems. On top of that our lower consumption of protein in favour of higher consumption of carbohydrates is a contrinuting factor in many mood disorders, in type II diabetes and obesity. Three of the most common epidemics of the moment.

Our body isn't made for the current western diet. That was my point.

[RACKITUP]

...... is a contrinuting factor in many mood disorders, in type II diabetes and obesity. Three of the most common epidemics of the moment.

Our body isn't made for the current western diet. That was my point.


Exactly, give it 50years the number of type II diatbetes is going to be extrodinary, or at least mild type II--diet controlled due to insulin sensitivity. All this due to sugar intake. Obviously diabetes is also heredity but is it a conincedence that although the population is more now, proportionally there were less diabetics from 1900s consuming 1kg of sugar a year, than now when on average we consume closer to 1kg a week. Our bodies cant adapt to process and deal with the change in sugar consumption in only a hundred years

To be a healthy bodybuilder, we need a eat like they did hundred years ago, before artifical sweetners and processed foods---old fashioned eating! :D

[extreme4377]

So now we should be cautious of how much milk we drink because of the high sugar content? My milk has 12g of sugar per 8 ounces("one serving").

[PittsburghKid]

How can Proteins turn into fat? I've never heard that before.

[RACKITUP]

So now we should be cautious of how much milk we drink because of the high sugar content? My milk has 12g of sugar per 8 ounces("one serving").


Milk sugars(aka lactose) I believe a disaccharide that causes minmal insulin reponse....could be wrong though

[Big Cat]

So now we should be cautious of how much milk we drink because of the high sugar content? My milk has 12g of sugar per 8 ounces("one serving").

Lactose is slowly digested and doesn't allow its glucose content to hit the bloodstream fast enough to cause a significant insulin spike. So in a way its a good thing, since it provides the necessary glucose in a protein rich, low-carb diet (provided you use next to no other carb sources) yet it doesn't promote problems with insulin.

[Big Cat]

How can Proteins turn into fat? I've never heard that before.

They don't, its bull****. Some amino acids however can be used for the process of gluconeogenisis and turned into a substrate of the Krebs cycle that can later be regenerated to glucose.

[Dr Leucine]

How can Proteins turn into fat? I've never heard that before.

You are right, it's not true!

[Swizzle Dizzle]

They don't, its bull****. Some amino acids however can be used for the process of gluconeogenisis and turned into a substrate of the Krebs cycle that can later be regenerated to glucose.

phew, i was sweating that for a second

[Trentinator]

It astounds me that so many people feel that taking more than 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight is fine and healthy. Don't you think that 1 gram of protein per body weight is the hell of a lot more protein than the average joe takes in and is enough to gain size, maybe not as quickly as 3-4 grams of protein per pound, but at least it doesen't f- up your kidneys!

Also, ya'll keep on saying how much protein you try to take in daily, but you aren't telling us how much you weigh. That can make a huge difference. Maybe the guy who takes in 400 grams weighs 320 pounds, which isn't bad. Or maybe he weighs 180, which would be terrible!

Keep in mind, there are a lot of ignorant teenagers on this board, who listen to what ya'll post and don't realize that if they take in that much protein, they're going to have some serious health problems down the road.......

Also, Big Cat, that post you made where you were comparing us to "our ancestors" got a lot of praise, But I'm not so sure if I agree with it..... First of all, there is no way that anyone can accurately know how many grams of protein the average hunter gatherer took in daily, it's just not possible.
You also can't generalize like that, everybody on the planet has different ancestors from different parts of the world who ate different things!

[Rippd]

They don't, its bull****. Some amino acids however can be used for the process of gluconeogenisis and turned into a substrate of the Krebs cycle that can later be regenerated to glucose.

But that is exactly how they turn into fat. Excess calories will get stored as fat be it carbs, protein or fat.

[MADDOGG]

protein does NOT hurt kidneys, no matter how much you take in. if you heard it does it is a MYTH. PROTEIN DOES NOT HURT KIDNEYS.

source: Muscle and Fitness-dont remember what month. i was somewhat suprised but i also read this in musclemag as well

[PinZ]

lol, this has made me laugh...

ok..

1. protein does not turn into fat.
2. the amount of protein you need to take in should be staggered depending on your weight, and workouts. if you are a big guy, you eat big, so more protein (maybe anything up to and over 400g). if you are a little guy, if you eat too much protein you will just **** it out. simple.
3. if you are a little guy, aim for 250-350g. that way you will probably eat enough or more than you need.
4. too much protein does nothing to you. your body simply spends time digesting it, and getting rid of it.
5. use the search function, this question has been asked before.

[krustster]

They don't, its bull****. Some amino acids however can be used for the process of gluconeogenisis and turned into a substrate of the Krebs cycle that can later be regenerated to glucose.

....which, if not used by the body, is stored as FAT! Correct?

[Rippd]

....which, if not used by the body, is stored as FAT! Correct?

absolutely correct.

[PinZ]

just because a few amino acids indirectly cause the production of glucose which in turn if not used by the body can be stored as fat, DOES NOT mean that taking in 50-100g more of protein that you need will make you fat. you would get fat by taking in more carbs and fats than you use.

i fear for the beginners here, you need protein, eat up.

[Rippd]

just because a few amino acids indirectly cause the production of glucose which in turn if not used by the body can be stored as fat, DOES NOT mean that taking in 50-100g more of protein that you need will make you fat. you would get fat by taking in more carbs and fats than you use.

i fear for the beginners here, you need protein, eat up.

Your missing the point. Any excess calories whether it's protein, carbs or fat will get stored as bodyfat. Think of it this way. You fill your car up with gas, when the tank is full, if you keep pumping the gas will just spill out. It doesn't work that way with your body, your body will store it.

No one is saying that protein isn't important.

[PinZ]

oh i totally agree, the simple energy in, energy out equation still applies, and im not saying that eating indefinate amounts of protein won't cause excess fat. what i want to get across is that many beginners may fall under the belief that they will get fat from eating something like 250-350g of protein daily. this is simply not the case (if they are lifting regularly), but with people putting forward views that too much protein = fat (even though it is only a tiny percentage of the excess that would be converted to body fat), it may create confusion.

i put it to you another way, how much protein per day would you consider to be proportionate to additional bodyfat, based on a hard 3 day split?

[Rippd]

oh i totally agree, the simple energy in, energy out equation still applies, and im not saying that eating indefinate amounts of protein won't cause excess fat. what i want to get across is that many beginners may fall under the belief that they will get fat from eating something like 250-350g of protein daily. this is simply not the case (if they are lifting regularly), but with people putting forward views that too much protein = fat (even though it is only a tiny percentage of the excess that would be converted to body fat), it may create confusion.

i put it to you another way, how much protein per day would you consider to be proportionate to additional bodyfat, based on a hard 3 day split?

Agreed.

[krustster]

I think what we were both trying to say is simply that, like any other source of calories, protein can and will be stored as fat if taken in excess. It has calories, and if you take too many calories they will become fat instead. Obviously fat and carbs are the "real" culprits but it's still a possibility.

[Dr Leucine]

I think what we were both trying to say is simply that, like any other source of calories, protein can and will be stored as fat if taken in excess. It has calories, and if you take too many calories they will become fat instead. Obviously fat and carbs are the "real" culprits but it's still a possibility.

No this is simply not true. Conversion of amino acids into fat does not occur in the human body, as BIG CAT already pointed out. You don't get fat from eating a lot of protein, you're getting fat from the fat you are co-ingesting with the protein, when you're not in energy balance (thus if energy intake exceeds expenditure)
When you increase protein intake, protein synthesis, degradation and oxidation rates will increase to such extent that the body reach a new setpoint of protein balance.

[Rippd]

No this is simply not true. Conversion of amino acids into fat does not occur in the human body, as BIG CAT already pointed out. You don't get fat from eating a lot of protein, you're getting fat from the fat you are co-ingesting with the protein, when you're not in energy balance (thus if energy intake exceeds expenditure)
When you increase protein intake, protein synthesis, degradation and oxidation rates will increase to such extent that the body reach a new setpoint of protein balance.

So by your theory, you can take in an unlimited amount of protein and your body will use it. This is simply not true, your body can only use a limited amount of protein, excess certainly will be stored as bodyfat.

[Dr Leucine]

So by your theory, you can take in an unlimited amount of protein and your body will use it. This is simply not true, your body can only use a limited amount of protein, excess certainly will be stored as bodyfat.

NO, not true. We'are talking about 2 different things. Not all amino acids/protein you take in will be absorbed in the intestine and appear in the blood. All amino acids that will appear in the blood will either incorporated into body protein or when in excess be oxidized. When an amino is oxidized, the carboxylgroup of the amino acid could theoretically be used gluconeogenesis, however this occurs only when substrate (glycogen) stores are very low. However, when you are in energy balance or energy intake > expenditure, the carboxylgroups will be used for ATP production and fatty acid and glucose oxidation are reduced. So if you get fat it is due to excess fat and carbohydrate intake, not protein!!!!!!!!!

This is it. You can find it in any simple basic Biochemistry book (like Stryer)

[Rippd]

NO, not true. We'are talking about 2 different things. Not all amino acids/protein you take in will be absorbed in the intestine and appear in the blood. All amino acids that will appear in the blood will either incorporated into body protein or when in excess be oxidized. When an amino is oxidized, the carboxylgroup of the amino acid could theoretically be used gluconeogenesis, however this occurs only when substrate (glycogen) stores are very low. However, when you are in energy balance or energy intake > expenditure, the carboxylgroups will be used for ATP production and fatty acid and glucose oxidation are reduced. So if you get fat it is due to excess fat and carbohydrate intake, not protein!!!!!!!!!

This is it. You can find it in any simple basic Biochemistry book (like Stryer)

OK, try this, eat a 6000 calorie diet of all protein, I guarantee you will gain fat.

[leonutz]

I have read up some research that states that protein has a higher thermogenic effect (i.e. your body requires more energy to break them down as compared to carbs and fats) so if you are thinking of which macronutrient to add to make up your daily total calories, my best bet is to use protein since even if its not being absorbed to build muscle, it will burn more calories den if you ingest the other two macronutrients

[Dr Leucine]

you can't take in 1500 grams of protein a day! Protein plays a very important role in satiety and thats why its very difficult to eat so much protein.

[Kayslay]

But theoretically, what WOULD happen if you ate 6000 calories worth of protein in 1 day?

Will you excrete the excess, or store it as bodyfat?

Which is it?

[Dr Leucine]

But theoretically, what WOULD happen if you ate 6000 calories worth of protein in 1 day?

Will you excrete the excess, or store it as bodyfat?

Which is it?


excrete!!!

[Future_KingKong]

But theoretically, what WOULD happen if you ate 6000 calories worth of protein in 1 day?

Will you excrete the excess, or store it as bodyfat?

Which is it?

You would excrete. Try doing it.

[2pounds]

a study was just released stating that your body can only process 40 grams at a time. that does not mean that if you consume forty you will process forty so eat more than forty.

[Rippd]

But theoretically, what WOULD happen if you ate 6000 calories worth of protein in 1 day?

Will you excrete the excess, or store it as bodyfat?

Which is it?

You would store alot of fat and excrete some. Any excess calories can be stored as fat.

[fitnessman]

a study was just released stating that your body can only process 40 grams at a time. that does not mean that if you consume forty you will process forty so eat more than forty.


Those studies have been around for ages.

I am still going to stick with Nutrition 101: A calorie is a calorie is a calorie.

[Andrew69]

a study was just released stating that your body can only process 40 grams at a time. that does not mean that if you consume forty you will process forty so eat more than forty.

Depending on the quality of the protein (bioavailability), you will not absorb between 30 and 60%

However, I have found a study which suggests that the TIMING of the protein intake is far more important than the actual quality (provided of course that the quantity is sufficient).

http://www.uoguelph.ca/hb+ns/HBNS6700/Esmarck.pdf

Yes the study was conducted on older men, but the principal is exactly the same.
So for you guys who are too busy arguing with each other after a workout about how much you should be taking.....quite arguing and take you shake the minute you finish your workout.

[Future_KingKong]

Sometimes its simply not possible to take it the minute your workout is done.

[Jotun]

Protein converted to glucose during gluconeogenesis is NOT stored as fat, because gluconeogenesis occurs primarily when there is no readily available source for NEEDED glucose.

[Andrew69]

Sometimes its simply not possible to take it the minute your workout is done.
No doubt. The gist of my post was to take your protein as soon as possible once you have completed your work out.
For those that did not bother to read the article, if you waited 2 hours to take your post work out protein, then you might as well wait till your next meal anyway as you have "missed the boat".

[fitnessman]

Protein converted to glucose during gluconeogenesis is NOT stored as fat, because gluconeogenesis occurs primarily when there is no readily available source for NEEDED glucose.

Which is a down side to Ketogenic diets if the fat intake is not high enough.

[Jotun]

Which is a down side to Ketogenic diets if the fat intake is not high enough.

Exactly!

[thegame99]

Your body can absorb 30-40 grams. After that you're just drinking the protein for fun.

The protein powder can hurt your kidneys.

[AphtaLyfe]

I thought I was pretty well versed (well... college level) in biochemistry of the human body but a lot of the things people are saying here are making me doubt myself.


Gluconeogenesis does not really have anything to do with the Krebs cycle... once the amino group is removed it can directly enter the gluconeogenesis pathway.


However the point was brought up that gluconeogenesis only really occurs when glycogen stores are at a minimum.... so I don't really know if excess protein would be converted to storage molecules or not. (fat)

I simply assumed that protein was broken down and if you had an excess of protein, the subsequent AAs entered the gluconeogenesis pathway and were stored as glycogen or converted into fatty acids for storage in fat cells.

If it is true that unused protein (absorbed through the intestines but not actually used for metabolic function) is excreted... where does it go? I don't think you all of a sudden get excess carbon in your urine if you eat too much protein. (lots of nitrogen though)
I also do not think your body spits carbon back out into your intestines for disposal...

[343paul]

I guess it depends on the quality of protein.

[Rippinit]

i have been read in several places that the body can handle 30 grams in one sitting, however this is subjective to time between sittings, bodyweight, and, with regards to muscle building, how much carbohydrate one consumes- although im not sure if it has been proven. This is due to the fact that carbohydrate has a protein sparing effect. Quality-wise i dont know, although i dont believe it would make a difference as to how much the body can assimilate.

[RB12]

Your body can absorb 30-40 grams. After that you're just drinking the protein for fun.

The protein powder can hurt your kidneys.

strong 3-year old bump :rolleyes:

care to post some support for this or do you just want to bump old threads with irresponsible banter?

[WillBrink]

My question is just that. How much protein can you body absorb in one sitting?

From the QnA section on my site:

It has been a long debated topic how much protein a person can digest at any one time. Nutritionists and doctors have maintained for decades that "people can only digest 30 grams at a time of protein and any additional protein is wasted or converted to fat." So say the powers that be.

Now, I wish I could examine the study or research they are basing this advice on so I could dispute it but I can't. Why you ask? Because in all my years of searching the medical data banks, talking to researchers, and falling asleep in the medical library after hours of reading, I have been unable to find exactly where this advice comes from or what it's based on.

At one time, I went so far as to offer a reward to anyone who could show me a recent study that showed that 30 grams of protein was the upper limit anyone could digest, regardless of age, weight, and activity levels.

Why is it 30 grams? Why not 28 or 35? Are we saying that the digestive and absorptive abilities of a 285 pound 23 year old football player is the same as a 50 year old 115 pound women?

Now digestion is a very complex topic. Many people think you eat some protein, it mixes with some acid or something, gets broken down into amino acids, gets taken up into the body, and everyone is happy.

I wish it were that simple. As with all foods, the breakdown of protein starts in the mouth with the simple chewing of food and the exposer to certain enzymes. In the stomach, food mixes with enzymes and other factors such as lipase, pepsin, intrinsic factor, and of course HCL (stomach acid).

It moves onto the small intestine and then the large intestine.The small intestine is considered the major anatomical site of food digestion and nutrient absorption and is made up of section such as the duodenum, jejunum, and the ileum. Pancreatic enzymes (chymotrypsin, trypsin, etc.), bile salts, gastrin, cholecystokinin, pepidases, as well as many others factors are released here.

The large intestine is composed of the ascending colon, transverse colon, descending colon, and the sigmoid colon, which all play a part in absorbing the nutrients we eat. Sound complicated? It is. Believe me, I am leaving out a great deal of information so you wont fall asleep reading my little column! Suffice it to say, digestion is a very complicated thing and there are many places along the chain of digestion that can both enhance and degrade a persons ability to absorb the foods we eat.

There is no reason to think that among this complicated process that there are not wide individual differences in a persons ability to digest and absorb protein. For some person who is inactive, elderly, and for what ever reason lives with compromised digestion, 30 grams of protein at one sitting might very well be too much for them to handle.

By the same token, assuming a 220lbs healthy athlete is unable to exceed 30 grams of protein in one sitting is neither proven by medial science or even logical in my view. So what if the 30 gram rule turns out to be true? If we examine some of the more recent studies on the protein requirements of athletes done by researchers from both the United Sates and Canada , we come to some recommended protein intakes that far exceed the RDAs, some times by as mush as 225%!

These researchers came to the conclusion that protein intakes for athletes should range from approximately 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight for endurance athletes and up to 1.8g of protein per kg for strength training athletes. For a 200 pound bodybuilder-a strength training athlete-that would be approximately 164 grams of protein per day (most bodybuilders I know eat considerably more protein per day, but that's for another fight and another article...). Assuming that 30 grams of protein is the most anyone can digest, absorb, and utilize, this person would have to split his intake into about five meals (164 divided by 30 = 5.47). So, given the advice by many people that 30 grams is all anyone can digest at a single sitting, it appears a person can achieve the goal of 30 grams of protein per meal even with the higher intakes recommended in the modern research (assuming they are willing or able to eat five meals per day).

However, if you happen to eat more than that per meal as a healthy athlete I don't think you have anything to worry about. I wont tell anyone. Me, I would suggest you stick to the one gram per pound of bodyweight rule, which often exceeds the research mentioned above. Also, read the "Protein Myth" article at the BrinkZone site for more info on this topic.

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=6&aid=62

[NO HYPE]

My question is just that. How much protein can you body absorb in one sitting? And how often can you intake more protein?

There is no reason to rapidly consume dietary protein.

I will return later with references however, I believe the maximum absorption rate of whey protein has been observed at around 10 grams per-hour (and less for casein), so the slower you consume your protein.... the more efficiently it is utilized for protein synthesis.

[GeneGnomeX]

I don't think most people understand that when you eat whole foods it takes hours to digest. You don't have to eat small meals every hour to keep the protein coming, it doesn't all dump into circulation right away.

[labradarep]

How can Proteins turn into fat? I've never heard that before.

Protein does not directly turn into fat. It first must go through a process called Gluconeogenesis( Gluconeogenesis is the generation of glucose from non-sugar carbon substrates like pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids.)

The vast majority of gluconeogenesis takes place in the liver and, to a smaller extent, in the cortex of kidneys. This process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, or intense exercise and is highly endergonic. Gluconeogenesis is often associated with ketosis.(ie: Amino Acids , which are the building blocks of protein, are converted to glucose). These new glucose molecules then get stored as fat if they are not utilized for exercise, metabolism, etc.. That is how Protein gets stored as fat in a round about way.

Hope this helps?

[Elliptical Envy]

Protein does not directly turn into fat. It first must go through a process called Gluconeogenesis( Gluconeogenesis is the generation of glucose from non-sugar carbon substrates like pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids.)

The vast majority of gluconeogenesis takes place in the liver and, to a smaller extent, in the cortex of kidneys. This process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, or intense exercise and is highly endergonic. Gluconeogenesis is often associated with ketosis.(ie: Amino Acids , which are the building blocks of protein, are converted to glucose). These new glucose molecules then get stored as fat if they are not utilized for exercise, metabolism, etc.. That is how Protein gets stored as fat in a round about way.

Hope this helps?

I really like how you explained that. Kudos to you.

BTW, Fitnecise I agree with your statement as well.

[Quelly]

omfg there is so much crap info in this thread...thank god for the last couple of posters

take home messages

overeat any macronutrient, you will be in a caloric surplus and gain bodyfat

no reason to eat over 1-1.5g/lb of bodyweight in protein, and even that is probably more than needed anyway

we have no studies showing how much protein can be utilized in one sitting or time period to this date

[NO HYPE]

There is no reason to rapidly consume dietary protein.

I will return later with references however, I believe the maximum absorption rate of whey protein has been observed at around 10 grams per-hour (and less for casein), so the slower you consume your protein.... the more efficiently it is utilized for protein synthesis.


A few highlights....


A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans

Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).

Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)

Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid [U]oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).

The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.

This ?slow? and ?fast? protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.

Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.

The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.

The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.

Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.

From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).

Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function. http://www.humankinetics.com/eJournalMedia/pdfs/5642.pdf

[NO HYPE]

omfg there is so much crap info in this thread...thank god for the last couple of posters

Why thank you.... JK:D




we have no studies showing how much protein can be utilized in one sitting or time period to this date

Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial accretion. Boirie, Y., M. Dangin, P. Gachon, M.P. Vasson, J.L. Maubois, and B. Beaufrere. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 94: 14930-14935, 1997.

[Belloc]

I red a study were they looked into different feeding methods, one of them was the 'warrior diet' were you only eat one meal a day

anyway something about nitrogen in urine showed that eating all your protein in one sitting caused no protein loss

[Quelly]

Why thank you.... JK:D





Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial accretion. Boirie, Y., M. Dangin, P. Gachon, M.P. Vasson, J.L. Maubois, and B. Beaufrere. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 94: 14930-14935, 1997.

New info, good stuff...I guess a better way to put it, is that there is no magic number for how much protein you can take in during one sitting, one has to account for bodyweight, type of protein, and probably other factors....arbitrarily saying "30g is the most you can absorb" is wrong.

[NO HYPE]

New info, good stuff...I guess a better way to put it, is that there is no magic number for how much protein you can take in during one sitting, one has to account for bodyweight, type of protein, and probably other factors....arbitrarily saying "30g is the most you can absorb" is wrong.

Agreed.

[tomdatrain]

it makes more sense to get your protein from whole foods spread out over 6-8 meals during the day along with a pre-worout and post-workout shake to give the muscle a little extra boost in growth

[AphtaLyfe]

A few highlights....


A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans

Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).

Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)

Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid [U]oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).

The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.

This ?slow? and ?fast? protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.

Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.

The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.

The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.

Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.

From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).

Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function. http://www.humankinetics.com/eJournalMedia/pdfs/5642.pdf

Nice find!

Just bought some casein to mix in with my whey...

[CoolAsAFan]

been reading ALOT on this forum, no hype, u seem to be on every thread that I find of particular interest and informative, reps to you man.

I have a question after reading that study posted by no hype, mainly
"A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet."

I weigh roughly a bit more then 80kg, but I was wondering, the 176g protein intake, is that for the whole day including what i eat, not just shakes? I guess I just got confused cus the study only talks about WP and CAS. And am I understanding this right that I should actually be consuming more CAS than WP in my shakes except for maybe Post W.O?

[mlgray40]

So according to the article a 80kg male will only use 7-8g of whey per hour. So if you ate 7-8g of whey every hour all day the most your body would use is 168-192g? Am I understanding that right?

[JonZ]

Some good info above.

"These researchers came to the conclusion that protein intakes for athletes should range from approximately 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight for endurance athletes and up to 1.8g of protein per kg for strength training athletes. For a 200 pound bodybuilder-a strength training athlete-that would be approximately 164 grams of protein per day (most bodybuilders I know eat considerably more protein per day, but that's for another fight and another article"

Thank you for pasting that.

"up to 1.8g of protein per kg for strength training athletes"

Judging by what Ive read here, other forums,used to read in magazines,heard in teh gym etc,what most weightlifters actually go by pound of lean weight not kilograms of bodyweight which is why you see guys talking about taking up 400g and more per day - which to me is way too much. Divided by 6 meals, that would be 67g a meal.



I get in 20 - 30g per meal. Im about 210 lean bodyweight -at 6 meals a day you have say 180g of protein. Eating more not only makes me feel bloated and over stuffed but Ive also noticeably over time gained bodyfat from eating more than that.

I dont remember where I read it, it was sometime during the 90s about the 30g a meal rule,which Ive pretty much stuck to.

There are guys out there who eat 80g per meal, while others like Mentzer believed all you needed was a healthy diet, plus a bit extra muscle your trying to build.So youll always get a different answer depending on who you ask.

For me it led to only more questions, because as a natural lifter, you couldnt go by what drug users would say or recommend. So Ive always wondered if I was taking in enough protein to grow properly.


BTW, I have gout and can tell you that higher amounts of protein have affected my kidneys. I can feel it and my body will tell me when to tone it down. Food contains not only calories, protein,etc but also purines which can raise uric acid levels and do affect the kidneys. Even in peopel without my condition.

Just last week, someone I know who has kidney stone issues in the past actually ended up going to the doctor from eating a entire bundle of asparagus in one sitting. The next day he almost collapsed and it took a week for him to recover.

[dgj23]

I gained over 30lbs of muscle eating less than 1g of protein per body lb and eating less than 2000 calories a day. I probably ate less than 50g of protein a day. I weigh 185lb. My muscle growth did plateau so I am eating a lot more protein. So is taking protein exactly after a work out necessary because after I go to the gym I drive home and work on my abs. Then I eat a meal with about 40 to 50 grams of protein. I am trying to make my body proportional before I do any major bulking up. I am still learning how to body build.

[Phosphate bond]

A few highlights....


A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans

Considerable debate has taken place over the safety and validity of increased protein intakes for both weight control and muscle synthesis. The advice to consume diets high in protein by some health professionals, media and popular diet books is given despite a lack of scientific data on the safety of increasing protein consumption. The key issues are the rate at which the gastrointestinal tract can absorb amino acids from dietary proteins (1.3 to 10 g/h) and the liver's capacity to deaminate proteins and produce urea for excretion of excess nitrogen. The accepted level of protein requirement of 0.8g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1 is based on structural requirements and ignores the use of protein for energy metabolism. High protein diets on the other hand advocate excessive levels of protein intake on the order of 200 to 400 g/d, which can equate to levels of approximately 5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, which may exceed the liver?s capacity to convert excess nitrogen to urea. Dangers of excessive protein, defined as when protein constitutes > 35% of total energy intake, include hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia nausea, diarrhea, and even death (the ?rabbit starvation syndrome?). The three different measures of defining protein intake, which should be viewed together are: absolute intake (g/d), intake related to body weight (g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1) and intake as a fraction of total energy (percent energy). A suggested maximum protein intake based on bodily needs, weight control evidence, and avoiding protein toxicity would be approximately of 25% of energy requirements at approximately 2 to 2.5 g ∙ kg-1 ∙ d-1, corresponding to 176 g protein per day for an 80 kg individual on a 12,000kJ/d diet. This is well below the theoretical maximum safe intake range for an 80 kg person (285 to 365 g/d).

Amino acid catabolism must occur in a way that does not elevate blood ammonia (26). Catabolism of amino acids occurs in the liver, which contains the urea cycle (26), however the rate of conversion of amino acid derived ammonia to urea is limited. Rudman et al. (27)

Early findings suggest that rapidly absorbed proteins such as free amino acids and WP, transiently and moderately inhibit protein breakdown (39, 53), yet stimulate protein synthesis by 68% (54). Casein protein has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown by 30% for a 7-h postprandial period, and only slightly increase protein synthesis (38, 54). Rapidly absorbed amino acids despite stimulating greater protein synthesis, also stimulate greater amino acid [U]oxidation, and hence results in a lower net protein gain, than slowly absorbed protein (54). Leucine balance, a measurable endpoint for protein balance, is indicated in Figure 1, which shows slowly absorbed amino acids (~ 6 to 7 g/h), such as CAS and 2.3 g of WP repeatedly taken orally every 20 min (RPT-WP), provide significantly better protein balance than rapidly absorbed amino acids (39, 54).

The misconception in the fitness and sports industries is that rapidly absorbed protein, such as WP and AA promote better protein anabolism. As the graph shows, slowly absorbed protein such as CAS and small amounts of WP (RPT-WP) provide four and nine times more protein synthesis than WP.

This ?slow? and ?fast? protein concept provides some clearer evidence that although human physiology may allow for rapid and increased absorption rate of amino acids, as in the case of WP (8 to 10 g/h), this fast absorption is not strongly correlated with a ?maximal protein balance,? as incorrectly interpreted by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and bodybuilders.

Using the findings of amino acid absorption rates shown in Table 2 (using leucine balance as a measurable endpoint for protein balance), a maximal amino acid intake measured by the inhibition of proteolysis and increase in postprandial protein gain, may only be ~ 6 to 7 g/h (as described by RPT-WP, and casein) (38), which corresponds to a maximal protein intake of 144 to 168 g/d.

The rate of amino acid absorption from protein is quite slow (~ 5 to 8 g/h, from Table 2) when compared to that of other macronutrients, with fatty acids at ~ 0.175 g ? kg-1 ? h-1 (~ 14 g/h) (55) and glucose 60 to 100 g/h (0.8 to 1.2 g carbohydrate ? kg-1 ? h-1) for an 80 kg individual (56). From our earlier calculations elucidating the maximal amounts of protein intake from MRUS, an 80 kg subject could theoretically tolerate up to 301 to 365 g of protein per day, but this would require an absorption rate of 12.5 to 15 g/h, an unlikely level given the results of the studies reported above.

The consumption of large amounts of protein by athletes and bodybuilders is not a new practice (13). Recent evidence suggests that increased protein intakes for endurance and strength-trained athletes can increase strength and recovery from exercise (14, 80, 81). In healthy adult men consuming small frequent meals providing protein at 2.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1, there was a decreased protein breakdown, and increased protein synthesis of up to 63%, compared with intakes of 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 (16). Subjects receiving 1g ? kg-1 ? d-1 underwent muscle protein breakdown with less evident changes in muscle protein synthesis. Some evidence suggests, however, that a high protein diet increases leucine oxidation (82, 83), while other data demonstrate that the slower digestion rate of protein (38, 54), and the timing of protein ingestion (with resistance training) (84) promote muscle protein synthesis.

Absorption rates of amino acids from the gut can vary from 1.4 g/h for raw egg white to 8 to 10 g/h for whey protein isolate. Slowly absorbed amino acids such as casein (~ 6 g/h) and repeated small doses of whey protein (2.9 g per 20 min, totaling ~ 7 g/h) promote leucine balance, a marker of protein balance, superior to that of a single dose of 30 g of whey protein or free amino acids which are both rapidly absorbed (8 to 10 g/h), and enhance amino acid oxidation. This gives us an initial understanding that although higher protein intakes are physiologically possible, and tolerable by the human body, they may not be functionally optimal in terms of building and preserving body protein. The general, although incorrect consensus among athletes and bodybuilders, is that rapid protein absorption corresponds to greater muscle building.

From the limited data available on amino acid absorption rates, and the physiological parameters of urea synthesis, the maximal safe protein intakes for humans have been estimated at ~ 285 g/d for an 80 kg male. It is not the intention of this article, however, to promote the consumption of large amounts of protein, but rather to prompt an investigation into what are the parameters of human amino acid kinetics. In the face of the rising tide of obesity in the Western world where energy consumption overrides energy expenditure, a more prudent and practical approach, which may still provide favorable outcomes, is a 25% protein energy diet, which would provide 118 g protein on an 8000 kJ/d diet at 1.5 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 for an 80 kg individual (Table 2).

Little data exists on the comprehensive metabolic effects of large amounts of dietary protein in the order of 300 to 400 g/d. Intakes of this magnitude would result in some degree of prolonged hyperaminoacidemia, hyperammonemia, hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglucagonemia, and some conversion to fat, but the metabolic and physiological consequences of such states are currently unknown. The upper limit of protein intake is widely debated, with many experts advocating levels up to 2.0 g ? kg-1 ? d-1 being quite safe (102, 117, 118) and that renal considerations are not an issue at this level in individuals with normal renal function. http://www.humankinetics.com/eJournalMedia/pdfs/5642.pdf

That was interesting.

In the old days I would take whey protein pre-mixed to school and just drink it plain. These days I am trying to blend any protein powder I have with other things. It just seems taking protein powder by itself isn't the most effective use of it.

As far as post-workout goes it is true that muscles are screaming for nutrients. But is it only protein they want? I am thinking with blood vessels dilated to skeletal muscle essential fatty acids (EFAS) may also be beneficial for repair/growth at this time.

Now someone may point out that if pre-workout nutrition has enough EFAS in it then this could be ommited in the postworkout shake. That is something to consider too.

[NastyNally]

Very interesting article. So am I getting this right, a blend with casein in it would be superior to whey? Also, in order to fully benefit from whey in terms of muscle building we would have to take small "shot-like" doses of it every 20 minutes? That would be a pain in the arse.

[low blow]

Damn I always thought it was better to eat bolus amounts of protein vs. small amounts. I thought for protein synthesis to occur AA's have to be spikes...not just absorbed and maintained at base line?

[Pinckney12]

The short answer to this posted question is this:
Feel free to take in up to about 45 grams in supplement every 4-5 hours and tweak it from there. If you take more than 45 grams you may notice pretty foul-smelling farts. This is a sign of excess protein, so scale it back.
I found this out after talking to someone at a GNC store and it cleared up the mystery of the farts. I was taking 60-70 grams after a workout.
Hope this helps.

[Tree_Hugger]

That was interesting.

As far as post-workout goes it is true that muscles are screaming for nutrients. But is it only protein they want? I am thinking with blood vessels dilated to skeletal muscle essential fatty acids (EFAS) may also be beneficial for repair/growth at this time.


Check out John Berardi's article "The science of nutrient timing" in the article section of this site. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi54.htm
It really helped me understand more about this topic. The book that is referenced here is "Nutrient Timing" by Drs. John Ivy and Robert Portman.

As a point of reference for what the article and book contains, here is an excerpt from the article that discusses different "Phases" in which your body needs different nutrients:

"In the book, the authors refer to three critical times of the day in which nutrient timing takes on a greater importance. These times are known as the Energy Phase, The Anabolic Phase, and The Growth Phase. Since I like these distinctions, I'll use them here. However, I'll add another phase that I call, somewhat in jest, The Rest of The Day Phase."

I'll let you guys read the article rather than quoting a good portion about each phase and the nutrition involved.

Hope this helps.

PF

[precisou2004]

Personally its better to take in too much protein and waste some than not taking in enough, eat up :D shoot for 2g+ per pound BW and seperate over 6/7 meals

lmfao !!

I had to laugh at ur "sig line" heheh ;)

[fredarn]

Thats insane. Where did you hear that? Even on AS your body would not require 100 grams an hour. If you slept 8 hrs a day and were awake 16hrs that would be 1600grams a day. I dont care how much water you drink your kidneys would be f()cked. I am not trying to come off as an A$$ but it is dangerous if someone interprets your statement that it is beneficial to eat even half that amount.


SeaHawk22

If you eat more protein then you can use, it will be transformed to fat.

It will not kill you, or even harm you - as many people think. People previously thought that a high protein intake could harm the kidneys, but newer research clearly shows that thats not the case.

I personally eat 3 100 calories a day, and 310 grams of protein.

[RB12]

If you eat more protein then you can use, it will be transformed to fat.

that is ridiculous, please cite a source for this.

[leonidas300]

that is ridiculous, please cite a source for this.

I think he means that any macronutrient will be stored as fat once maintenance calories are exceeded. This is true. Any time you have a caloric surplus those calories get stored.

[RB12]

I think he means that any macronutrient will be stored as fat once maintenance calories are exceeded. This is true. Any time you have a caloric surplus those calories get stored.

while i do not disagree with you, i dont think he meant that (although I am sure he will say so). There seems to be a "common" misconception (based on a number of threads) that "if i get too much protein i will be fat" same misconception that leads too thinking carbs are evil

:)

[eldawg]

If you eat more protein then you can use, it will be transformed to fat.

It will not kill you, or even harm you - as many people think. People previously thought that a high protein intake could harm the kidneys, but newer research clearly shows that thats not the case.

I personally eat 3 100 calories a day, and 310 grams of protein.


that is ridiculous, please cite a source for this.


I think he means that any macronutrient will be stored as fat once maintenance calories are exceeded. This is true. Any time you have a caloric surplus those calories get stored.

labradarep dealt with this earlier in this thread...


Protein does not directly turn into fat. It first must go through a process called Gluconeogenesis( Gluconeogenesis is the generation of glucose from non-sugar carbon substrates like pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids.)

The vast majority of gluconeogenesis takes place in the liver and, to a smaller extent, in the cortex of kidneys. This process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, or intense exercise and is highly endergonic. Gluconeogenesis is often associated with ketosis.(ie: Amino Acids , which are the building blocks of protein, are converted to glucose). These new glucose molecules then get stored as fat if they are not utilized for exercise, metabolism, etc.. That is how Protein gets stored as fat in a round about way.

Hope this helps?

[chi-chi]

There is really no data available about how much protein can be taken up by the body.

A quick google search showed several articles from the New England Medical Journal, among others. Once subjects start showing decreasing returns, we can reasonably assume that the body can't take up any more protein (or needs additional nutrients or it's absorption, etc).

[chi-chi]

Probably the best thing to do is to take 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram bodyweight divided over 5-7 servings. You should not only consume protein shakes, that's a waist of money.


I just had surgery and was recommended to take 1.5 grams per kilogram for six weeks to aid with wound healing. I can't imagine an athlete (perhaps body builders are exceptions) would need more than that. Yes you make micro tears when you work out and muscles need to repair that but I have surgical cuts in my muscle! (BTW, I'm a girl and not a bodybuilder. I weigh about 50kg (110 lbs) so I take 4 servings of protein spaced 3-4 hours apart, along with vitamins).

[chi-chi]

You should not only consume protein shakes, that's a waist of money. Just eat a lot of lean meat and dairy products.

I disagree. I'm vegetarian so my protein comes 75% from protein powder (not necessarily shakes, but not directly from whole food sources). I get my protein from wheat gluten, soy products, egg whites, milk and protein powder (mixed in with soups and as shakes). Protein powder costs me 3 cents per gram (probably cheaper for many of you who buy in larger quantities than my 3 lb container). Since I'm a conscious consumer, I buy cage-free, organic eggs at $4 per dozen so eggs are a "waste of money" if you only consider protein. Milk (only the non-organic kind) where I live in New York City is $4.59-$5/gallon so it's the same price per gram as protein powder but you have the additional calories. Even with skim milk, getting 128 grams of protein is going to cost you 1280 calories, more than double the calories of pure protein. I'm a bit lactose intolerant so I can't. If you buy regular lean meat on sale, like chicken breasts, meat protein may be cheaper (I can't say from my own experiences) but you have to cook it and it's not as convenient. If you BUY meat that is already cooked for you, it's definitely not cheaper than protein and THAT is more a waste of money!

For about $1, I can have a meal (or snack) ready in 30 seconds that has 25% of the protein I need and is pretty tasty.

[labradarep]

A quick google search showed several articles from the New England Medical Journal, among others. Once subjects start showing decreasing returns, we can reasonably assume that the body can't take up any more protein (or needs additional nutrients or it's absorption, etc).

Law of Diminishing returns?

[chi-chi]

Law of Diminishing returns?

Seems so, but there are people on this site who consume 200-300 grams of protein a day, so I suppose if it works for you, go for it!

[samsumon]

Wow..I just drink 2-3 shakes a day 1-2 scoops depending on the shake..Then I make sure to get some sort of meat (chicken/beef/tuna) once a day..Those are my guidlines.Correct me if im wrong or doing it bad...Carbs always after workout (if im going to be away from my kitchen ill add 1/2 cup of aots to my shake) if not ill just eat real food (pasta)..

bad?

[chi-chi]

When more than 30-35 grams of whey is used at one time, it is absorbed too quickly, and what the body cannot assimilate for tissue repair is oxidized for energy. If you don't work it off, it ends up around the old waistline. The latest research has found that more whey protein is oxidized for energy than was first thought. Most people should limit their intake of whey at a single sitting to approx 30 grams.

I've heard/read something similar. I only have 20 grams at a time since I'm a smaller person (110 lbs).

[NFLDROCK]

Ok there is no way the body can absorb 100 grams of protein every waking hour. Maybe the first hour after a heavy workout but not at all every hour. The amount that was recomended to me was 1g per pound of body weight, it is dangerous to the kidneys to take more. People who take more than this consume a lot more water and im sure take the appropriate change in diet along with the excess protein. But in general if you take just a little more than your body can absorb it will just flush out of your system.

[RealMenDeadLift]

I think a more importan question in the context of this site is how much protein is needed for significant muscle synthesis

[Quelly]

well Layne Norton ( str8flexed on here) is currently doing his dissertation for his PhD on this subject, and the preliminary research suggests eating 40-50g of protein every 3-5 hours tops you out...and that maybe a few grams of leucine or bcaa at the midpoint between meals can give you a little spike again...he seems to think about your BW in protein (little more if you're cutting), evenly spread every 3-5 hours with a scoop of bcaa is the best approach to maximize protein synthesis

[BadWog]

well Layne Norton ( str8flexed on here) is currently doing his dissertation for his PhD on this subject, and the preliminary research suggests eating 40-50g of protein every 3-5 hours tops you out...and that maybe a few grams of leucine or bcaa at the midpoint between meals can give you a little spike again...he seems to think about your BW in protein (little more if you're cutting), evenly spread every 3-5 hours with a scoop of bcaa is the best approach to maximize protein synthesis

That's interesting, so I guess the old 40/40/20 ratio is out?

So I'm guessing the vast majority of the other calories in our diet to make up for the lower protein intake would come from carbs, and perhaps slightly more unsaturated fats?

[Quelly]

That's interesting, so I guess the old 40/40/20 ratio is out?

So I'm guessing the vast majority of the other calories in our diet to make up for the lower protein intake would come from carbs, and perhaps slightly more unsaturated fats?

I think ratios in general are a flawed approach...your total caloric content should be determined by your goal of either gaining or losing weight...the individual macro nutrient breakdowns should be individually determined by your metabolism, lean body mass, age, and goals.

In general though....with individual variations aside, whether bulking or cutting I'd say get away with as many carbs as you can handle...they are more protein sparing than protein, keep your metabolism ramped up to top speed, and unlike fat or protein have a much more "plastic" or maleable upper limit that shifts as your metabolism speeds up or slows down...wherein your fat needs and protein needs are pretty static in comparison

[Guardian]

Life expectancy has increased as a result of the discovery of anti-biotics and other medical progressions. However, the difference in diet between then and now is often the cause or at the very least a contributing factor to one of the primary causes of death or incapacity, namely cardiovascular disease. The high intake of sodium and the low intake of unsaturated fats, are directly correlated to incidences of cardiovascular problems. Less sodium and more poly-unsaturated fats decreases chance of heart problems. On top of that our lower consumption of protein in favour of higher consumption of carbohydrates is a contrinuting factor in many mood disorders, in type II diabetes and obesity. Three of the most common epidemics of the moment.

Our body isn't made for the current western diet. That was my point.

Serotonin, which is the primary brain chemical involved in most mood disorders you speak up relies on insulin for its production. High protein diets without suffucient carb intake may result in decreased serotonin production. The disorders you speak of may have some root in high GI carbs rather then carbs in and of themselves.

[Guardian]

Protein does not directly turn into fat. It first must go through a process called Gluconeogenesis( Gluconeogenesis is the generation of glucose from non-sugar carbon substrates like pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids.)

The vast majority of gluconeogenesis takes place in the liver and, to a smaller extent, in the cortex of kidneys. This process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, or intense exercise and is highly endergonic. Gluconeogenesis is often associated with ketosis.(ie: Amino Acids , which are the building blocks of protein, are converted to glucose). These new glucose molecules then get stored as fat if they are not utilized for exercise, metabolism, etc.. That is how Protein gets stored as fat in a round about way.

Hope this helps?

Ketosis uses fat for fuel not amino acids...

[aaronstamp]

Very interesting article. So am I getting this right, a blend with casein in it would be superior to whey? Also, in order to fully benefit from whey in terms of muscle building we would have to take small "shot-like" doses of it every 20 minutes? That would be a pain in the arse.

yeah same question..
i always thought post-workout.. within 30 minutes.. during that insulin spike loading your muscles with protein (i do eat kg body weight X 1 gram protein per day, divided into 6 meals) is the best option? like nally said, should i be eating casein and little protein shots or what?

[ianfkirby]

So basically I get from NO Hypes post that a scoop of whey (or 1/2 wp 1/2cas) in skim milk (casein) sipped every 20 min or so between meals (and of course counted in daily macros) would be optimal for maintaining protein synthesis?

Do it with a wp/cas powder mix in water and you're coverng fluid intake, nitrogen balance and protein synthesis it would seem.

At least from my laymen's perspective.

[TheWaffleIron]

I think a more importan question in the context of this site is how much protein is needed for significant muscle synthesis

To stay in a positive nitrogen balance, research suggests that anywhere from 1.2 - 2.0 g of protein/kg body weight is necessary.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=297242231&postcount=2
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=282463311&postcount=48

There are several factors which may effect those values. One of them is net energy balance.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=311092161&postcount=13

Dietary protein intake during a "cut" should be elevated.


well Layne Norton ( str8flexed on here) is currently doing his dissertation for his PhD on this subject, and the preliminary research suggests eating 40-50g of protein every 3-5 hours tops you out...and that maybe a few grams of leucine or bcaa at the midpoint between meals can give you a little spike again...he seems to think about your BW in protein (little more if you're cutting), evenly spread every 3-5 hours with a scoop of bcaa is the best approach to maximize protein synthesis

Here's a link, for anyone interested.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=327581761&postcount=1

[-ljfox]

Is it not that you need 55%carbs, 30%protein and 15%fat?

[ibenchmor]

i guess ill break it down

you want most calories after your workout rather than before because thats when your muscles are begging for nurtrients.



I agree with you that you need nutrients after you work out, but I heard that if you put protien in your system 30 min. before you workout it benifits you the most because durring a work out session is when your blood flow is the fastest and the protiens are being delivered while you work out. When you take your protien after your workout it takes some time to get to your muscles

[labradarep]

Ketosis uses fat for fuel not amino acids...

True. When liver and muscle glycogen levels drop the body does switch to fat as the main fuel. But, I found this info quite interesting in regards to this topic:

" One reason most bodybuilders adapt to a low carb diet after about 2 weeks is that the body upgrades a process in the liver known as gluconeogenisis, which converts nutrients- INCLUDING AMINO ACIDS- into glucose. According to research, that process accounts for the fate of 60% of the body's glucose production."
Jerry Brainum: Ironman Magazine Oct 2006 ; Eat To Grow, page 51.

The longer someone is on a low carb/ketosis diet the harder it is to liberate triglycerides as fuel due to a decrease in Thyroid Hormone(conversion of T4 to T3). Thus the reason to "spike" calories to re-set Thyroid Hormone, T levels, Leptin levels & GH levels, etc... The only way to re-set Thyroid levels is with an increase in calories.

[Guardian]

True. When liver and muscle glycogen levels drop the body does switch to fat as the main fuel. But, I found this info quite interesting in regards to this topic:

" One reason most bodybuilders adapt to a low carb diet after about 2 weeks is that the body upgrades a process in the liver known as gluconeogenisis, which converts nutrients- INCLUDING AMINO ACIDS- into glucose. According to research, that process accounts for the fate of 60% of the body's glucose production."
Jerry Brainum: Ironman Magazine Oct 2006 ; Eat To Grow, page 51.

The longer someone is on a low carb/ketosis diet the harder it is to liberate triglycerides as fuel due to a decrease in Thyroid Hormone(conversion of T4 to T3). Thus the reason to "spike" calories to re-set Thyroid Hormone, T levels, Leptin levels & GH levels, etc... The only way to re-set Thyroid levels is with an increase in calories.

I personally find low carb and keto type diets to be garbage to be honest...

The body needs and works best having a reasonable amount of each macro, if you want to lose fat then I personally think its best to just lower every macro a couple hundred calories.

[labradarep]

Totally agree.

IMO too many people see protein as more important than the other macros. You need Fats and Carbs just as much. Plus they are "protein sparing " in function.

[Wearwolf51]

Great thread!

[someguy425]

ok well i just started to work out and i was wondering how much protein should in take and how long i would have to work out to use that protein

weight=270 ish

also i plan on using whey protein shakes is that a good choice?

[Ryhatz8]

I would limit the size of whey shakes more so than anything else. There is nothing wrong with eating a meal containing 60-90 grams of whole food protein, your body will break it down slowly enough that it shouldn't cause any problems. When you start talking about blended proteins it has been my experience that you can take in a larger amount of protein at one time. I normally shoot for 50-60 grams per shake, when I am using a relatively slow digesting protein with a lot of casein in it, like Optimum Complete Protein Diet or Beverly Ultra Size.

When more than 30-35 grams of whey is used at one time, it is absorbed too quickly, and what the body cannot assimilate for tissue repair is oxidized for energy. If you don't work it off, it ends up around the old waistline. The latest research has found that more whey protein is oxidized for energy than was first thought. Most people should limit their intake of whey at a single sitting to approx 30 grams. Again these numbers are quite arbitrary, and everyone will respond differently. Mixing whey with milk, adding peanut butter or flax will probably help some, though it won't help as much as some people might think.

The best bet is to invest in a blended protein, or at least some casein protein to add in with the whey, as this will provide a slower digestion rate and will increase the npu (net protein utilization) of the protein. Just as a side note recent studies have found that the npu of whey is actually lower than that of casein and egg white protein.

Last, but not least, barring post-workout, all protein powders are inferior to whole food proteins and are simply a matter of convenience. The key to continuous muscle growth is to keep the body anabolic throughout the day by maintaining a constant positive nitrogen balance. Too much emphasis is placed on post-workout nutrition, and not enough on keeping the body anabolic all day long.

The most important thing to remember is to drink enough water to aid the kidneys in the processing of this much protein. A person doing steroids will see a difference in gains when upping the protein intake to 2 gms per lb. 1 to 1 1/2 gms is plenty for a guy just starting out and taking nothing but protein powder and creatine.

Great answer.

[DTruss]

On top of that our lower consumption of protein in favour of higher consumption of carbohydrates is a contrinuting factor in many mood disorders, in type II diabetes and obesity.

im interested, do you have a specific study?

[Karma101]

labradarep dealt with this earlier in this thread...

it is not true that eating too much protein does not damage your body. To simplify, excess protein is sent to your liver, where it is broken down into urea and glucose. This glucose will be stored in your body as glycogen in your muscles and liver (something like the human form of 'starch'). Excess of this glucose will then be converted into fats to be stored in your body. The urea formed is sent to your kidneys to be excreted. If too much protein is consumed, your liver will suffer and damage will be done to it.

At least, this is what I learnt in school :)

[matthewmoody]

It astounds me that so many people feel that taking more than 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight is fine and healthy. Don't you think that 1 gram of protein per body weight is the hell of a lot more protein than the average joe takes in and is enough to gain size, maybe not as quickly as 3-4 grams of protein per pound, but at least it doesen't f- up your kidneys!

Also, ya'll keep on saying how much protein you try to take in daily, but you aren't telling us how much you weigh. That can make a huge difference. Maybe the guy who takes in 400 grams weighs 320 pounds, which isn't bad. Or maybe he weighs 180, which would be terrible!

Keep in mind, there are a lot of ignorant teenagers on this board, who listen to what ya'll post and don't realize that if they take in that much protein, they're going to have some serious health problems down the road.......

Also, Big Cat, that post you made where you were comparing us to "our ancestors" got a lot of praise, But I'm not so sure if I agree with it..... First of all, there is no way that anyone can accurately know how many grams of protein the average hunter gatherer took in daily, it's just not possible.
You also can't generalize like that, everybody on the planet has different ancestors from different parts of the world who ate different things!

This has been a helpful string for me. Thanks. I wanted to confirm something, since I am revamping my protein intake. When we are projecting out target protein needs, are we trying to hit protein quantity for current weight, or for target weight? I am currently dropping about 10 percent bf. Do I project my needs based on my current weight or my target? Thanks. Matt

[chicagoamfm]

Supposedly, according to most researchers and pro athletes, only 30-40 grams of protien in one meal.

[Quelly]

Supposedly, according to most researchers and pro athletes, only 30-40 grams of protien in one meal.

This whole discussion is a little off talking about how much you can "absorb" in one sitting....it has a lot more to do with the amount of leucine it takes to spike protein synthesis to maximum in one sitting, and this has to do with the weight of the individual and the quality (ie amount of leucine) of the protein they are eating.

[Robboe]

How the hell, in 2009, can this thread go well into five pages long???

[Guardian]

This whole discussion is a little off talking about how much you can "absorb" in one sitting....it has a lot more to do with the amount of leucine it takes to spike protein synthesis to maximum in one sitting, and this has to do with the weight of the individual and the quality (ie amount of leucine) of the protein they are eating.

Most people need 3 grams of Leucine, Layne Nortons research supports this.

[Lucky_ROA]

This whole discussion is a little off talking about how much you can "absorb" in one sitting....it has a lot more to do with the amount of leucine it takes to spike protein synthesis to maximum in one sitting, and this has to do with the weight of the individual and the quality (ie amount of leucine) of the protein they are eating.

Alot more to do with free form L-Leucine ? or the aminos(l-leucine etc.) packed in the average whey protein drink ?

[Mfusick]

My question is just that. How much protein can you body absorb in one sitting? And how often can you intake more protein?

For example, say I have a protein shake with 34g of protein, can I have another and still absorb all 68g of protein or do I need to wait a certain amount of time and if so, how long? Thanks!

Depends on type of protien. Something like a HyrdroWHey with additives to help digestion- I would say 100 grams in a shake (3 scoops + milk) is not a problem at all.

If you eat 100 grams worth of Mcdonalds (like doublecheeseburgers and chicken Nuggets) it is going to take hours and hours for that to absorb.

Overeating protien won't hurt you. With time- your body will get better at eating protien.
When you first start a big protien shake- you might get ****z. But after time and years... your poop is normal- Showing your body adapted and got better at digesting protien.

[Mfusick]

I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.

This was a great post

[Mfusick]

So now we should be cautious of how much milk we drink because of the high sugar content? My milk has 12g of sugar per 8 ounces("one serving").

NO- Milk is good. 12grams is not overkill- nor should it make you develop type II diabetes.

ALso- the fats in milk slows down the absorbtion so it does not spike sugar or insulin like candy.

In comparision- JUICE is much, much worse for you and do not have as much nutritional value as MILK.

Juice = bad
Milk = Good

[Mfusick]

Depends on type of protien. Something like a HyrdroWHey with additives to help digestion- I would say 100 grams in a shake (3 scoops + milk) is not a problem at all.

If you eat 100 grams worth of Mcdonalds (like doublecheeseburgers and chicken Nuggets) it is going to take hours and hours for that to absorb.

Overeating protien won't hurt you. With time- your body will get better at eating protien.
When you first start a big protien shake- you might get ****z. But after time and years... your poop is normal- Showing your body adapted and got better at digesting protien.

Some things digest easier- like a whey shake.

Real food take longer. And High fat combined with protien really slows down the digestion.

Your body can handle much higher amounts of protien than most people think.

Personally- at a buffet when I am in SLOB MODE I can consume an insane amount... and poop normal the next day.

[Quelly]

Depends on type of protien. Something like a HyrdroWHey with additives to help digestion- I would say 100 grams in a shake (3 scoops + milk) is not a problem at all.

If you eat 100 grams worth of Mcdonalds (like doublecheeseburgers and chicken Nuggets) it is going to take hours and hours for that to absorb.

Overeating protien won't hurt you. With time- your body will get better at eating protien.
When you first start a big protien shake- you might get ****z. But after time and years... your poop is normal- Showing your body adapted and got better at digesting protien.

first all protein absorbtion...that doesnt even really mean anything

yeah sure, digestion of food is one issue...but we are talking about utilizing protein as far as it being effective at promoting increases in protein synthesis (or at least we should be lol)

If we are discussing maximally stimulating protein synthesis...taking in 100g of hydro whey in one sitting...is a waste...30-40g of hydro whey would max out protein synthesis...so there would be no added benefit to taking 100g.

Yes your body gets more efficient at DIGESTION of protein, but that doesnt mean you are actually doing anything usefull with that protein.

[Guardian]

first all protein absorbtion...that doesnt even really mean anything

yeah sure, digestion of food is one issue...but we are talking about utilizing protein as far as it being effective at promoting increases in protein synthesis (or at least we should be lol)

If we are discussing maximally stimulating protein synthesis...taking in 100g of hydro whey in one sitting...is a waste...30-40g of hydro whey would max out protein synthesis...so there would be no added benefit to taking 100g.

Yes your body gets more efficient at DIGESTION of protein, but that doesnt mean you are actually doing anything usefull with that protein.

Unless you are on something...

[Quelly]

Unless you are on something...

sure...then maybe take 60g of hydro whey...but 100g?....that's just wasting $

[BULLandTERRIER]

Most people need 3 grams of Leucine, Layne Nortons research supports this.

Research from Donald Layman indicates that muscle protein synthesis is stimulated MAXIMALLY with an oral leucine dose of 0.045-0.06g/kg (3-4g) per meal.

[Mfusick]

One serving of ProCOmplez is 60 grams of protien. I take this often post workout seesm to work good for me. I have not doubt my body digests and uses more than just 35 grams of protien when I do.

[labradarep]

More Food for Thought:

Another important point that I think most are missing/forgetting is that each induvidual Amino Acid has different clearance rates in the body. Therefore, they are not all absorbed at the same rate.

Here is a small exerpt from an article I was reading:

" Interestingly, the goal of proportional
increases in the availability of all of the
essential amino acids from ingestion of a
supplement with a similar amino acid
composition of muscle does not truly
occur (9). It is possible that differences
in clearance rates of individual amino
acids after ingestion result in a differential
uptake by muscle that differs from
the ingested mixture (9). Leucine and
isoleucine appear to increase to a greater
extent than other amino acids, suggesting
that these specific essential amino
acids have a more potent effect on muscle
protein synthesis. A subsequent
study has shown that when leucine was
added to a whole protein (whey) and
carbohydrate supplement, whole body
net protein balance was significantly
greater than that seen after protein and
carbohydrate supplement or carbohydrate
supplement alone (24)."

[labradarep]

Unless you are on something...

Agreed. If you are "on something" your protein uptake/Nitrogen Balance will be increased.

[shiftyrap]

I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.

best answer on the board

[Mfusick]

I think I read someplace that while your body could digest as much as 100grams of protien an hour... that there is not much additional benefit past 30 or 40g grams.

Meaning your gainst on 40 grams of protien are the same as if you ate 80 grams.

So- your better off eating 30-40 more often than 60+ once for sure.

Just cause you eat it does not mean your using it all for lean muscle gains.

[bloodsimple1234]

Genetics are a factor.I might be able to digest more protein in a sitting then another.

[fitbliss]

Originally Posted by Big Cat
"What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild".
This was a great post

Food for thought: modern man has been around 150,000 years, not 10,000...and protein intake didn't increase to 50% until the Cro-Magnon peoples, about 35,000 years ago...Oh my God!!! I am such a nerd!!! LOL!!!

Anywho, the more protein is ingested, the larger volume of water is recruited from the body in order to excrete its metabolic byproducts. That can lead to dehydration if one is not careful. Increased filtration increases propensity of kidney disease, but according to studies IT DOES NOT INVARIABLY CAUSE kidney disease on NORMAL subjects. Furthermore, heavier consumption of protein increases excretion of calcium, which heightens propensity to kidney stones, but again, healthy subjects treated to a high protein diets in controlled studies DID NOT develop stones. However, my husband has kidney stones every once in a while. Every time he has an episode, the doctor recommends reducing the protein intake for a while. I would not worry about kidney stress as much as I would about dehydration and osteoporosis, though.

[YMS_1975]

Holy crap....

This thread didn't resolve anything. But, on the flipside I did learn a bit about the different view points. So from what I can gather, the main ideas/beliefs from the numerous posters are (keeping in mind that not everybody will agree as I saw a lot of arguments to each belief):

1) The most the body can absorb is 30 grams of protein in one sitting
2) Excess protein gets stored as fat
3) Excess protein simply gets excreted
4) It's not as simple as it sounds (It's about weight, level of activity, etc.)

After reading this thread, I think it's safe to say (although I'm sure I'll be corrected) that :

- At 35 Years of age....
- Weighing in at 220 Lbs. (I'm a big guy [not muscular....fat]....
- Being new to body building / lifting weights....

...that I should be safe with 30 grams of protein per serving broken into 7 servings (say 2-3 hours between servings)???

Please help, I am so confused by all of this. Break it down for me...in simple terms.

[jimmygravitt2007]

I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.

I don't claim to be a specialist and have learned an immense amount from this conversation but in regards to this, I can only assume that if we are to apply the paleo diet or any part of our ancestoral heritage, it is imperative that we include just how differnet almost every aspect of their lives were. For example, zero trans fat, almost entirely low glycemic carbs, very low saturated fats, much more active lifestyle, and perhaps most important would be their immense consumption of water... and ONLY water. So while we can assume that a mere 200-250 grams of protein a day would not be harmful to most people who are even remotely diet conscious, I think an even greater amount would be safe, assuming the best conditions, especially the water consumption and contantly active (anabolic/ androgenic) lifestyle, were followed. I think most people, myself definitely included, don't have the dedication to follow, even a loose form, of the paleo diet.

[PuZo]

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

Is it a good idea to have 60g+ of protein in 1 sitting. Probably not, but that doesn't mean you won't absorb it. Give your body more credit.

[fallingreason]

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

[daeth260]

Big Cat .. what are talking about? our ancestors ?
... Do you know the life expectancy 10000 years ago! Think about it!
We have whats called scientists and biologist these days, I think they carry a little more knowlegde than 8-10 thousand years ago ;)


You do realize we live longer cause we have "Doctors" and "knowledge" of diseases we did not have 10000 years ago before we even had bronze. I hope you are a highschool kid you kinda contradicted yourself their mikey.

[Fitness_Nazi]

I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.

Amen Brother!!!!

I am 5'10" and I weigh 195 Lbs now with ~8% BF. I consume roughly 4500 calories a day through 5-7 meals. Only 2 of those meals come from shakes. Mostly it is lean proteins cooked by me at home. Of course I drink about 120 oz. of water per day to protect my kidneys and have to do cardio 7 days per week to make sure I am burning off the excess calories.
I believe (and I am a living proof) that if a person consumes 50-80g protein intake per meal but making sure to take 20% Essential Fats per day, he/she can get positive effects from it. However, one must recognize the fact that it is not how many calories one takes but rather the equilibrium one must watch. (if you take less calories than you burn, you will not gain any weight. If you consume more calories than what you will burn, you will gain weight. No matter where these calories come from.)

Please note that your body will adjust to the calorie sources very rapidly so you must "shock" your system every 4 days or so. Therefore, every 4th day I alternate the protein and the carb calories (called a ziug zag method.) By using this method I never had to do a so called bulk up or cutting cycle.
Cheers,
MAC.

[CorradoVT]

I'm glad there was another post made recently in this "old" thread so I don't feel like I'm bumping an archived thread.

There's a lot of good information here. I found this thread/site via a google search looking for an answer to the basic question posed by the OP. I'm looking to tune my diet to maximize its efficiency in turning the fuel I give it into energy and build muscle without adding fat. I'm not shooting for body builder, I just want to be stronger and fitter.

This post isn't a[nother] plea for help getting my diet in order, but an attempt to understand what I've read in this thread. I'll use a simple example and some basic assumptions. Go with the concept, even if you don't agree with the parameters. :)

I doubt this is remotely as black & white as the example, but I think a general discussion can be had without getting into complex biochemical relationships. Treat this like a high school physics question about an ball thrown across a creek (where will it land?). Most people know the basics of motion and could come up with an answer that is, right by everything they know, but technically, wrong. Without advanced knowledge and very complex equations that take into account air resistance, aerodynamics, variable wind speeds etc, you won't nail the EXACT answer, but you'll be in the ballpark. Good enough to know that you can probably throw that ball 100' over the creek out back, but not good enough to tell you how to throw it into a coffee can on the other side.

So, the example. Let's assume a person is eating a 3000 Kcal/day diet. Their daily breakdown is as follows.

250g Protein = 1000 Kcal
350g Carb = 1400 Kcal
67g Fat = 600 Kcal

This person knows that they can metabolize 30g of protein in a 3 hour period. They eat 5 equal meals per day, once every 4 hours. Each meal contains 50g of protein, but their body is only metabolizing 30g. The result is a protein surplus of 20g Protein per meal or 100g (and therefore 400 Kcal) per day.

As I understand it, for this person, any excess Carbohydrates and Fat can be metabolized and stored in the body as fat. However, their body would not metabolize the excess Protein into fat and would "excrete" the overage (literally protein down the drain).

If that's the case, does this person's diet, or at least their expectations of what they're getting, need an adjustment? If 100g of Protein (and its 400 Kcal of Energy) are passed through the system, is it fair to say that this person's effective intake is not 3000 calories & 250g of Protein, but 2600 Kcal and 150g of protein?

Obviously it's never this cut & dry, but is that the general principle behind how excess protein is managed?

[PaulJerome]

There’s a UFC fighter named Rich Franklin who I consider fairly smart when it comes to training/preparation. He was a middle weight but moved up to light heavy weight recently. There is a video interview on his site where he says that he makes sure to get 70 grams of protein with each meal (the video’s titled ‘Rich Franklin on Fighting Forrest’).

Personally, I think it’s like driving a car. Push the pedal down to a certain level and it is an efficient use of gas. Push it down even further and you’re wasting gas, but the car makes some use of that extra gas.

I’ve been doing upwards of 70 grams/meal and 480 per day which has been making my lifts go up each week while dropping about 1 pound/week.

[bhouston77386]

You can absorb as much as your body needs at that time or can store for later use.

Your body is not stupid. You do not have to baby it.

[Sketch86]

no more than 100 an hour from what i know...
including a shake with a steak, fish, and or wheat could easily reach that amount.

i had a similar question.. i have 'Whey Gain' protein shake... and i was wondering how much will i gain once i consume all of the canister?... when i workout i take a shake right after.. but then my muscles stay really sore and tight for like 2 or 3 days, not sure if its normal or not.. is it the cause of the shake or my body getting used to working out?

[Sketch86]

It all depends on your body and how damaged your muscles are (ie: how hard you worked out). When you work out you make micro-tears in your muscles, and when they grow back, they grow back stronger, hence your muscles get bigger. Protein and protein bonds are the stuff that makes this growing happen. So if you're a big dude who kills it at the gym 68 grams sounds good; otherwise any protein not put into muscle growth turns into fat. BTW, ideally you should consume 1g of protein per pound of body weight, and protein shakes should not be your main source of protein.

so how long does it take for me to see any results in my body.. how long does it take for me or others to notice?

[mward26]

Your body can utilize and process something like 96% of protein intake IIRC.

[DallasChamp4evr]

Im not sure where most of you are getting your info from but I am in a health class in college and they really stress that people are consuming WAY too much protein in a day.

If you eat 6 times a day (which is recommended by nearly everyone on this site and many others) you should consume a serving of protein the size of a deck of cards with each meal. In many cases that is LESS than 20 grams of protein PER MEAL!!!!

This means one would intake about 180 grams of protein a day if you are lucky.

Well next a guy who works at GNC and reads the articles they get says the most you can intake after a workout is 40 grams of protein. I don't trust him, I don't trust that store in general.

BTW it's not 1 gram per pound of body weight, it's 1 gram per pound OF LEAN MUSCLE!!!

That I heard from an ex marine who might be the most fit person i've ever met.

I read a study on *********.com which included an experiment testing the rates of protein synthesis post workout with different dosages of protein ranging from 0 to 40 grams.

They found the 20 gram of protein group responded the best.

[armyworrell]

I like to drink my Whey Protein throughout the day. I am still waiting on my Casein Protein to come so I can drink it before bed everynight. Right now I am substituting it with these Banana Milk's that are in the chowhalls over here. It seems to be working pretty well.

[enzimes]

How can Proteins turn into fat? I've never heard that before.

hey yer protein can turn into fat if you eat excessive amounts, but if you body is in a so called "burning zone" your body will excrete it.

a good amount of protein is 2grams per kg

This is why, your body can not store protein. It uses as much as it needs for muscles, bodily functions and many more, but when there is too much it can not be stored as protein therefore the body either removes it as waste, or turns it into fat.

[enzimes]

Im not sure where most of you are getting your info from but I am in a health class in college and they really stress that people are consuming WAY too much protein in a day.

If you eat 6 times a day (which is recommended by nearly everyone on this site and many others) you should consume a serving of protein the size of a deck of cards with each meal. In many cases that is LESS than 20 grams of protein PER MEAL!!!!

This means one would intake about 180 grams of protein a day if you are lucky.

Well next a guy who works at GNC and reads the articles they get says the most you can intake after a workout is 40 grams of protein. I don't trust him, I don't trust that store in general.

BTW it's not 1 gram per pound of body weight, it's 1 gram per pound OF LEAN MUSCLE!!!

That I heard from an ex marine who might be the most fit person i've ever met.

I read a study on *********.com which included an experiment testing the rates of protein synthesis post workout with different dosages of protein ranging from 0 to 40 grams.

They found the 20 gram of protein group responded the best.



hey how are you,
yer I am doing a diploma in fitness and we cover nutrition and health too.
We have been taught slightly differently, yes you should consume no more that 20-30grams of protein per meal, because your body wont store anymore it will either turn it into fat or excrete it.
but we have been taught that people these days are not consuming the right amounts, or are consuming too much on the one meal thinking it will last them them the day, therefore they are still difficiant in protein.

[grossman87]

I was sitting in a lecture by a Dr who is the technical director for a supplement company and had conducted much research in to protein absorption. His answer to the question is, on average the body cannot intake more than 20g of protein into the muscles in one sitting! The blood nitrogen levels are too high and the body needs to get rid of it, any excess goes to waste! He also says your shakes should not be a single source of protein but a mixture, this increases the AA profile.

[PuZo]

I was sitting in a lecture by a Dr who is the technical director for a supplement company and had conducted much research in to protein absorption. His answer to the question is, on average the body cannot intake more than 20g of protein into the muscles in one sitting! The blood nitrogen levels are too high and the body needs to get rid of it, any excess goes to waste! He also says your shakes should not be a single source of protein but a mixture, this increases the AA profile.

So that can of salmon that has 36g of protein, more than half doesn't get absorbed? And he is a Doctor... What online school do he graduate from?

[IronGrizzly]

So that can of salmon that has 36g of protein, more than half doesn't get absorbed? And he is a Doctor... What online school do he graduate from?

But wouldn't the salmon take some hour(s) to digest giving a smooth linear protein intake as opposed to whey that will be absorbed much faster?

That way even if there is 36g of protein it wont be absorbed right away.

[PuZo]

But wouldn't the salmon take some hour(s) to digest giving a smooth linear protein intake as opposed to whey that will be absorbed much faster?

That way even if there is 36g of protein it wont be absorbed right away.

Right away or in 5 hours doesn't matter. The fact is that all of that protein will be utilized by the body at some point.

[Mr.Cooper69]

I feel bad for you Puzo. The fail in this thread is unmatched in this realm.

[PuZo]

I feel bad for you Puzo. The fail in this thread is unmatched in this realm.

So you are saying I am wrong? The Warrior diet comes to mind when people saying anything over x amount will not be utilized by the body...

[Mr.Cooper69]

So you are saying I am wrong? The Warrior diet comes to mind when people saying anything over x amount will not be utilized by the body...

No you are right. I feel bad for you because you're trying to educate ignorant sheep.

[PuZo]

No you are right. I feel bad for you because you're trying to educate ignorant sheep.

okay cool, ya I don't like sheep, but I hear they are full of protein :p

[ram-fam]

Can someone help me out, I'm trying to lose weight, I do both cardio and lift some weights. I have lost 25lbs and have about another 20-25lbs to go to reach my goal. Should someone trying to lose weight consume protein supplements?
Thanks to all.

[Laura2robertson]

how to weight loss?

[PuZo]

Can someone help me out, I'm trying to lose weight, I do both cardio and lift some weights. I have lost 25lbs and have about another 20-25lbs to go to reach my goal. Should someone trying to lose weight consume protein supplements?
Thanks to all.


how to weight loss?

I love the English language. Probably the most misunderstood language in the world...

[ClarkDaShark]

I think its like over 9000

[mud0071]

My question is just that. How much protein can you body absorb in one sitting? And how often can you intake more protein?

For example, say I have a protein shake with 34g of protein, can I have another and still absorb all 68g of protein or do I need to wait a certain amount of time and if so, how long? Thanks!

on average basis an average person's body can only consume 18-20 grams of protien at a time while some one who is doing body building on natural basis the body consumes 25-27 grams depending on ur body wieght and training routine and life style!!! in other words ur body consumes 0.4grams of protien per kg of ur body weight unless u r on steriods then ur body consumes the maximum amount of protien.... inorder to bulk up naturally u should be consuming protiens double of ur body wieght in grams (i.e) if u wieght for eg.. 70kg then you should be consuming 140g of protien daily and double the amount of protien u need to consume carbs...!!! that way u can develope lean and healthy muscles!! as well as strength!! and inorder to get that amount eat less but eat everytime (after every other 1-2 hr)!! hope i answered the question.. :D

[mud0071]

Can someone help me out, I'm trying to lose weight, I do both cardio and lift some weights. I have lost 25lbs and have about another 20-25lbs to go to reach my goal. Should someone trying to lose weight consume protein supplements?
Thanks to all.

keep exercise up the in the same routine as u are doing!! and consume low calorie food!! protien supplenment should only be taken in order to replace a meal not in additional to it!! :)!! but it is not ideal to do so...!!!

[bblazev14]

i heard it was only about 20-30 grams of protein per serving!

[bblazev14]

lol "it's over 9000"

[bblazev14]

okay cool, ya I don't like sheep, but I hear they are full of protein :p

We should go eat some sheep then!

[bblazev14]

I was sitting in a lecture by a Dr who is the technical director for a supplement company and had conducted much research in to protein absorption. His answer to the question is, on average the body cannot intake more than 20g of protein into the muscles in one sitting! The blood nitrogen levels are too high and the body needs to get rid of it, any excess goes to waste! He also says your shakes should not be a single source of protein but a mixture, this increases the AA profile.

thanks for the input!

[bblazev14]

Im not sure where most of you are getting your info from but I am in a health class in college and they really stress that people are consuming WAY too much protein in a day.

If you eat 6 times a day (which is recommended by nearly everyone on this site and many others) you should consume a serving of protein the size of a deck of cards with each meal. In many cases that is LESS than 20 grams of protein PER MEAL!!!!

This means one would intake about 180 grams of protein a day if you are lucky.

Well next a guy who works at GNC and reads the articles they get says the most you can intake after a workout is 40 grams of protein. I don't trust him, I don't trust that store in general.

BTW it's not 1 gram per pound of body weight, it's 1 gram per pound OF LEAN MUSCLE!!!

That I heard from an ex marine who might be the most fit person i've ever met.

I read a study on *********.com which included an experiment testing the rates of protein synthesis post workout with different dosages of protein ranging from 0 to 40 grams.

They found the 20 gram of protein group responded the best.

Yea i've heard this before, and read it in magazines!

[littlebones6]

~15 - 20 grams post-workout
~1.4 - 1.7 grams per kg of body weight per day

[littlebones6]

Im not sure where most of you are getting your info from but I am in a health class in college and they really stress that people are consuming WAY too much protein in a day.

If you eat 6 times a day (which is recommended by nearly everyone on this site and many others) you should consume a serving of protein the size of a deck of cards with each meal. In many cases that is LESS than 20 grams of protein PER MEAL!!!!

This means one would intake about 180 grams of protein a day if you are lucky.

Well next a guy who works at GNC and reads the articles they get says the most you can intake after a workout is 40 grams of protein. I don't trust him, I don't trust that store in general.

BTW it's not 1 gram per pound of body weight, it's 1 gram per pound OF LEAN MUSCLE!!!

That I heard from an ex marine who might be the most fit person i've ever met.

I read a study on *********.com which included an experiment testing the rates of protein synthesis post workout with different dosages of protein ranging from 0 to 40 grams.

They found the 20 gram of protein group responded the best.

I don't trust GNC either, I got into a 5 minute argument with one of their clowns about whether caffeine is a vasodilator or a vasoconstrictor. I said it was a vasodilator, he a constrictor. I was right, told him I study this in university and he told me I was wrong. They no longer receive my business.

[Gorac]

I don't trust GNC either, I got into a 5 minute argument with one of their clowns about whether caffeine is a vasodilator or a vasoconstrictor. I said it was a vasodilator, he a constrictor. I was right, told him I study this in university and he told me I was wrong. They no longer receive my business.Actually it can be either

"Caffeine's mechanism of action involves increasing the synthesis and release of catecholamines and increasing intracellular cAMP concentration through phosphodiesterase inhibition. These pharmacological effects are demonstrable in multiple organ systems. Central nervous system physiological responses include stimulation of the cerebrum and medulla, resulting in the often desired effect of alertness and hypervigilence. The cardiovascular response includes direct stimulation of the myocardium; however this effect may be mitigated to some extent by concurrent vagal stimulation. These factors sometimes result in ventricular irritability, manifested as premature ventricular contractions. Likewise, direct vasodilation occurs, although this may be counteracted by vasoconstriction from stimulation of the medullary vasomotor center, and may cause either increases or decreases in blood pressure. Smooth muscle is relaxed by caffeine, while skeletal muscle is stimulated."

[littlebones6]

Actually it can be either

"Caffeine's mechanism of action involves increasing the synthesis and release of catecholamines and increasing intracellular cAMP concentration through phosphodiesterase inhibition. These pharmacological effects are demonstrable in multiple organ systems. Central nervous system physiological responses include stimulation of the cerebrum and medulla, resulting in the often desired effect of alertness and hypervigilence. The cardiovascular response includes direct stimulation of the myocardium; however this effect may be mitigated to some extent by concurrent vagal stimulation. These factors sometimes result in ventricular irritability, manifested as premature ventricular contractions. Likewise, direct vasodilation occurs, although this may be counteracted by vasoconstriction from stimulation of the medullary vasomotor center, and may cause either increases or decreases in blood pressure. Smooth muscle is relaxed by caffeine, while skeletal muscle is stimulated."

From All Experts eh?

According to that article it also says: I am not so certain that caffeine will produce a net vasoconstrictive effect peripherally. In fact the actual outcome of vasomotor tone is dependent on many factors that are competing and balancing with one another. So that this theory seems implausible or at least not likely. But it should be noted that caffeine at first generates vasodilation.

[Gorac]

Yeah. It seems as though caffeine's three metabolites have differing effects on vasodilation/constriction. I also read elsewhere it dilates peripheral blood vessels and constricts those in the brain. Either way it doesn't seem entirely clear cut is all I'm saying.

[bjf85]

You don't have to have protein to get big just workout. Back in the day when I was as big as you are I never took protein not a single time never even heard of it and was benchin bout 250 and only worked out 3 times a week.

[WestOz]

You don't have to have protein to get big just workout. Back in the day when I was as big as you are I never took protein not a single time never even heard of it and was benchin bout 250 and only worked out 3 times a week.

Wut

[ohstatebjjchamp]

i try to take in 20 grams of protein each hour.....through, any of the following: protein bars, whey shakes, milk, tuna, beef, pork, chicken, turkey, cottage cheese, cheese, eggs, yogurt......works well for me

[Mr.Cooper69]

i try to take in 20 grams of protein each hour.....through, any of the following: protein bars, whey shakes, milk, tuna, beef, pork, chicken, turkey, cottage cheese, cheese, eggs, yogurt......works well for me

worthless.

[ohstatebjjchamp]

worthless.

for who? not me.......fits my lifestyle.....state jiu-jitsu champion at 41 years old.....still very strong and in great condition, with very low body fat......when u r 41, in know thats twice your age.....you may see a little difference

[Mr.Cooper69]

for who? not me.......fits my lifestyle.....state jiu-jitsu champion at 41 years old.....still very strong and in great condition, with very low body fat......when u r 41, in know thats twice your age.....you may see a little difference

And it has nothing to do with the fact that you eat protein every hour.

[ohstatebjjchamp]

And it has nothing to do with the fact that you eat protein every hour.

should i stop eating protein? just wanting some input on how to get better....

[crvteckid]

lol @ stop eating protein. I think he's getting at the fact you don't need to spread it all out to that extent as long as you're hitting your ideal protein intake for the day you can eat it in bigger meals which would likely be more convenient. If you really enjoy eating tiny snacks all day more power to you, but it's not going to differentiate from eating more in couple sittings.

[ohstatebjjchamp]

i am so busy during the day.....with work, coaching three wrestling teams, lifting, running, jiu-jitsu, four kids, and a wife.....this is the way that works best for me....don't have time for big meals, constantly on the go.....life is busy....thanks for the comment.

in addition, after 29 years of competition, various hand to hand athletics, i have found that not having a full stomach allows me to compete and train at a higher level.

[robertmm94]

i am so busy during the day.....with work, coaching three wrestling teams, lifting, running, jiu-jitsu, four kids, and a wife.....this is the way that works best for me....don't have time for big meals, constantly on the go.....life is busy....thanks for the comment.

in addition, after 29 years of competition, various hand to hand athletics, i have found that not having a full stomach allows me to compete and train at a higher level.

It's very inconvenient for most people to make several meals a day. However if you like that way better ,go for it. The only reasonable explanation for a recreational BB to eat several times a day is if they enjoy eating that way

[ohstatebjjchamp]

all i'm saying is, this is what fits into my lifestyle.....i get a minimum of 20 g per hour......i get between 300 and 400 g per day......work a lot (12 hrs per day as an electrician), coach a lot, work out a lot......very little body fat.....great condition....very strong....i'm just throwing out my routine......nothing works for everyone, but this may also be an option for someone else, maybe i am completely unique......recreational, certainly, i'm not a professional bodybuilder

[supernaut76]

Has anyone seen this article by Martin Berkham? http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

Point on protein absorption is someway down so scroll down, but the whole article is pretty awesome IMO

[ohstatebjjchamp]

good stuff.....i especially like the very last paragraph....something i tell those personally associated with me....stick with a diet that you can do and are willing to do for the long haul......thanks for that article....much appreciated......

[HoboFire]

Definitely digging the article. In my experience, the best diet is the one you'll stick with. I don't have time for lots of meals a day. A good breakfast with lots of whole grains (I like oatmeal) and about 20 grams of protein (a couple eggs) give me a great start. Beyond that, I make sure to get about 30 grams of protein post-workout in a shake. Best of luck to you, man. Keep the articles coming!

[postnasalzulu3]

It astounds me that so many people feel that taking more than 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight is fine and healthy. Don't you think that 1 gram of protein per body weight is the hell of a lot more protein than the average joe takes in and is enough to gain size, maybe not as quickly as 3-4 grams of protein per pound, but at least it doesen't f- up your kidneys!

Also, ya'll keep on saying how much protein you try to take in daily, but you aren't telling us how much you weigh. That can make a huge difference. Maybe the guy who takes in 400 grams weighs 320 pounds, which isn't bad. Or maybe he weighs 180, which would be terrible!

Keep in mind, there are a lot of ignorant teenagers on this board, who listen to what ya'll post and don't realize that if they take in that much protein, they're going to have some serious health problems down the road.......

Also, Big Cat, that post you made where you were comparing us to "our ancestors" got a lot of praise, But I'm not so sure if I agree with it..... First of all, there is no way that anyone can accurately know how many grams of protein the average hunter gatherer took in daily, it's just not possible.
You also can't generalize like that, everybody on the planet has different ancestors from different parts of the world who ate different things!



I think you all need to remember that protein has more than one function to human health other than building. Protein supports the immune system, internal organs, ligamenture.

Find me a medical journal that states you can only consume x amount of protein. You won't find it because it doesn't exist. Obviously talk of 1600g of protein per day cannot be healthy for many different reasons. But I think before you can establish individual protein intake there would be a lot of variables to consider: lean mass, training goals, immune integrity etc.

I recently attended a seminar hosted by Charles Poliquin, he said the one study that stipulated protein synthesis had been grossly misinterpreted. Apparently it was an artificial GI tract and they passed x amount of protein into it and it absorbed x amount in x amount of time so they could safely have said you CAN at least absorb this amount of protein in one sitting. AT LEAST. It was not a human GI, they had used a pigs rmember. People jumped on the bandwagon and took it as X is as much as the kidneys can handle so do not consume more. Massive misinformation according to CP- Like he said, tr and find a medical journal proving how much protein the kidneys can handle or body can synthesise in one sitting

[FJRod]

hey yer protein can turn into fat if you eat excessive amounts, but if you body is in a so called "burning zone" your body will excrete it.

a good amount of protein is 2grams per kg

This is why, your body can not store protein. It uses as much as it needs for muscles, bodily functions and many more, but when there is too much it can not be stored as protein therefore the body either removes it as waste, or turns it into fat.

Serious?/????/?

[runtocatch]

I personally find low carb and keto type diets to be garbage to be honest...

The body needs and works best having a reasonable amount of each macro, if you want to lose fat then I personally think its best to just lower every macro a couple hundred calories.

I completely agree with this statement.

[TrueAmateur]

Serious?/????/?http://imageshackz.com/images/me.gif

Yes, he is.

[akork]

You don't have to have protein to get big just workout. Back in the day when I was as big as you are I never took protein not a single time never even heard of it and was benchin bout 250 and only worked out 3 times a week.

So...if you had "never even heard" of protein when you were working out "back in the day" how can you state that your protein intake was low? Afterall if you were not paying attention to your intake nor paying attention to what the protein content of foods you were eating then the honest answer is you don't know how much protein you were eating not that you werent eating any. Just because you didn't pay attention to the protein does not mean it did not exist.

One can argue about exactly how many grams of protein is ideal for muscle and strength building without causing kidney damage however its a bit ridiculous to claim that you could eat zero protein and still build muscle and strength. Clearly you need some, the question is just how much?

[egov007]

The guy that works at Vitamin world told me that only 40 grams could be absorbed every 4 hours. He's been around supplements forever so idk if it's true, but he said it was a "scientific fact" lol

[stewy101]

I will try to be as scientific as I can for this as I know we all have our own personal opinions and personal Preferences when it comes to our personal protein intake throughout the day' That being said here we go.




It's important to know how much protein you need and can absorb because excess protein in your diet can be unhealthy. Too much protein can lead to an increase in body fat, kidney or liver problems, and increased cholesterol levels. Your body absorbs protein at varying rates, according to the type of protein. Proteins that your body absorbs efficiently will have a high biological value, or BV, which is a measure of how well protein is absorbed and utilized by your body.
RDA
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or CDC, recommendation for protein is to make it 10 to 35 percent of your total caloric intake. The CDC says adult women and men should consume 46 g and 56 g of protein per day, respectively. For reference, a glass of milk contains about 8g of protein, a serving of meat has about 21 g and a cup of yogurt contains about 11 g of protein.


PHYSICAL ACTIVITY LEVEL
If you're sedentary or only lightly active each day, you don't need as much protein in your diet compared with someone who exercises at a high intensity every day. It's not that physically active people absorb protein better than sedentary people, but exercise burns calories and builds muscle. The added stress on your body requires additional protein for increased calorie consumption and muscle development.
MAXIMUM ABSORPTION
If you are physically active on a regular basis, you can increase your protein intake to as high as 0.91 g per pound of body weight. This is the upper limit at which the body can absorb protein. For instance, a 170 lb. individual could consume as much as 154 g of protein per day. Depending on the protein source, some of this protein might not get absorbed during digestion. Some might get stored as fat, while some of the protein might simply get excreted from the body or used for energy.
TYPES OF PROTEIN
Proteins are either animal-based or plant-based. Animal-based proteins are complete proteins, meaning they contain all of the essential amino acids you need. Most plant-based protein sources, with the exception of soy, are incomplete protein sources that are lacking one or more of the essential amino acids. The best-absorbing protein, according to its biological value, is whey protein. Whey is derived from milk. According to muscle specialist Helen Kollias, whey protein absorbs in your body at a rate of about 8 to 10 g per hour. Whey absorbs faster than other proteins, such as soy, casein and meat proteins.

REFERENCES
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: Protein
University of California-Los Angeles: Protein
Precision Nutrition; "Research Review: Protein Supplements -- Are You Absorbing Them?"; Helen Kollias; December 2008
Article reviewed by OmahaTyppo Last updated on: Jul 11, 2011


It's important to consume the correct amount of protein at each meal for several reasons. Excess protein is either excreted from the body or converted into fat, which is counterproductive if you're looking to build lean muscle mass and reduce body fat. A second reason is that it can get expensive to use protein supplements, or consume a large amount of high-quality protein foods, only to find out that much of this protein isn't even delivered to your muscles as you planned. By eating the correct amount of protein during each meal, you have the best odds of your body utilizing every last gram of protein.
RDA
The first thing you need to determine is how many grams of protein you need during the course of the day. Strength-training athletes require more protein than sedentary people. According to the University of California-Los Angeles, or UCLA, strength athletes might need 0.73 to 0.82 g of protein per pound of body weight per day. Sedentary individuals might need as little as 0.36 g per pound of body weight each day. UCLA also says the maximum usable amount of protein a person can consume during the course of the day is 0.91 g per pound of body weight, so a 200-lb. person could utilize a maximum of 182 g of protein per day.

Meals
For maximum protein digestion and absorption in the human body, it's important to divide your protein intake equally between meals. It doesn't matter whether you eat three meals a day or six, divide your total protein needs equally between each meal to maximize amino acid absorption. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins and are the body's usable form of protein. If you're looking to build muscle, it's critical that you consume a high-protein meal immediately following each resistance training workout. Tom Venuto, a certified strength and conditioning specialist and bodybuilder, suggests consuming about 30 g of protein per meal, including your post-workout meal. This amount might vary depending on your daily protein needs.
Digestion
Protein itself is not absorbed by your body. Instead, protein is converted to amino acids during the digestion process, which are then absorbed into your bloodstream, where they eventually reach your muscles, organs and other tissues. Different sources of protein are absorbed at varying rates. For instance, one of the fastest-absorbing protein sources is whey. According to researcher Helen Kollia, whey protein is absorbed at a rate of 8 g to 10 g per hour, so it would take about three hours to absorb a 30 g whey protein shake. However, she notes that whey protein passes through the intestinal tract in about 1.5 hours, so in this case, 15 g of whey at once is the ideal amount to consume for maximum absorption. Consuming more than this amount in one sitting would simply get excreted from the body.
Increasing Absorption
According to Kollia, you can increase the amount of protein your body is able to utilize during digestion. She says by consuming certain digestive enzymes along with your protein -- in this case, whey protein -- you can improve the absorption of the protein by nearly 100 percent. The specific enzymes she's referring to are a combination of 2.5 g of Aspergillus niger and Aspergillus oryzae consumed with each protein shake. Consult your doctor before adding digestive enzymes and/or protein supplements to your daily eating plan.


References
UCLA: Protein
TomVenuto.com: 30 Grams of Protein per Meal Myth --- The Truth About how Much Protein per Meal
Precision Nutrition; "Research Review: Protein Supplements -- Are You Absorbing Them?"; Helen Kollias; December 2008



Article reviewed by OmahaTyppo Last updated on: Jun 22, 2011

[iVortex]

I asked this same question in another thread and some kind person gave me this article:

www*DOT*wannabebig*DOT*com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

replace the *DOT*s with a "." , (post count is too low)

"It’s plausible that much more than 54 g protein in a single meal can be efficiently processed for anabolic and/or anti-catabolic purposes"

tldr;

There hasn't been enough controlled scientific experiments for a 100% true golden answer, but the conclusion from past experiments is:
the conductors of the experiemnt who claim 30grams is the max, also say 120grams of protein is the max you should have in a day.
the long term experiment and IF experiments show that 70-90g of protein per meal worked just as well as splitting 30gs up throughout the day.


A quote from the conclusion:

"So, is there a limit to how much protein per meal can be effectively used? Yes there is, but this limit is likely similar to the amount that’s maximally effective in an entire day. What’s the most protein that the body can effectively use in an entire day? The short answer is, a lot more than 20-30 g. The long answer is, it depends on several factors. In most cases it’s not too far from a gram per pound in drug-free trainees, given that adequate total calories are provided [8,9]. "

[gillG]

depends on a lot of factors and the "Golden Period" after a workout!

[dreamking45]

I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.


Actually this is not true. Our bodies have changed significantly in the past 10,000 years from digestion to our very bone structure(even Egyptians had a different bone structure then we do today). This actually started about 10,000 years ago when we made the move from a hunter/gatherer society to an agricultural one. This increased the population which in turn allowed for greater genetic variation. You would know this had you taken about 5 seconds to google 'human evolution process speeding up' or gone back to school. Also basing your facts off of homo sapien sapiens from 10,000 years ago has got to be the silliest thing I have ever seen on these forums. Pure bull ****. I am a microbiologist and your ignorance is just astounding to me. You clearly don't understand even the basics of evolution and have no right talking about it. If you do want to talk about it copy and paste from google next time.

[MuscleManChico]

phew, i was sweating that for a second

Haha, lol

[bdolson22]

It all depends on your body and how damaged your muscles are (ie: how hard you worked out). When you work out you make micro-tears in your muscles, and when they grow back, they grow back stronger, hence your muscles get bigger. Protein and protein bonds are the stuff that makes this growing happen. So if you're a big dude who kills it at the gym 68 grams sounds good; otherwise any protein not put into muscle growth turns into fat. BTW, ideally you should consume 1g of protein per pound of body weight, and protein shakes should not be your main source of protein.

umm protein cant be stored in the body sooo no it does not turn into fat

[MarkGilbert]

Hi All,

The answer, if we are talking about a typical bodybuilding / athlete diet of high-quality protein, is "virtually all of it". I think what most people mean when they ask this question is how much of the protein will they "retain" (ideally as new muscle tissue). The healthy human gut will absorb virtually any reasonable amount of digestible protein that you swallow...that's not my opinion, it's a fact. I know it is a fact because very little protein and amino acids appear in the feces.

The other question - how much will be retained - is much more complicated and of the protein you eat in a day, little of it is retained as new muscle. Of course, factors determining how much you retain are: training experience, training intensity, when you last trained, of course genetics, your body size, what you eat it with...and this helps determine the levels of estrogen and other hormones that help decide how much protein gets "held onto" by the muscle.

So just like with creatine absorption isn't the issue (because both are absorbed almost 100%), it's "retention" - and the only answer is, "that depends" on the factors above...

[wgbjeff]

just eat guys. it'll work out.

[SoccerMuscle5]

This question definetely has a complicated answer. I am waiting to hear one that is complete and accurate because I feel like it's different for everyones body. Depends on the person each time.

[logan.kinder]

Big Cat..you are spot oon and very knowledgeable..thanks for your posts.
They don't, its bull****. Some amino acids however can be used for the process of gluconeogenisis and turned into a substrate of the Krebs cycle that can later be regenerated to glucose.

[deadenemy]

I personally try to get around 20-30 grams a meal if I can. I try to eat or at least have a shake 4-6 times a day. I usually have 4 solid meals and 2 shakes a day.

[thegymbum]

i try to take in 20 grams of protein each hour.....through, any of the following: protein bars, whey shakes, milk, tuna, beef, pork, chicken, turkey, cottage cheese, cheese, eggs, yogurt......works well for me


worthless.

Interestingly, I've recently seen a few studies that have shown that provision of a constant supply of amino acid elevation over time can elevate protein synthesis. Stuff about stimulating an increase in protein translation efficiency due to increased signalling (mTOR, etc, for those who like details). It was mostly animal studies, so who knows in humans, but it makes me at least wonder and feel a little more tempted to spread it out as much as possible. Who knows for sure. I'll try to dig up some of the articles (credible or not, and substantial or not, I'll have to see..) but am not sure how easy that will be because I browse dozens of exercise/nutrition/metabolism journals per month and have no idea where I saw them. Not expecting anyone to believe me or trust my word, lol.


Edited to add, I did stumble back across one:

Samer W. El-Kadi, et. al, Anabolic signaling and protein deposition are enhanced by intermittent compared with continuous feeding in skeletal muscle of neonates. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab March 15, 2012 302:(6) E674-E686.

[VillageSciNerd]

Stuff about stimulating an increase in protein translation efficiency due to increased signalling (mTOR, etc, for those who like details).

That's a bit unsettling to me. Not too long ago I got finished reading The Youth Pill - The gene you describe is shorthand for "Target of Rapamycin," a gene that apparently controls many protein synthesis pathways as well as autophagy (put simply, a process in which cells break down and "eat" their own organelles and replace them with new ones). More synthesis, less autophagy; more autophagy, less synthesis, from what I know. Calorie restriction as well as rapamycin both appear to inhibit the activity of this gene and have both appeared to give organisms a greater maximum health/life span - in other words, less TOR activity = slower aging.

Would ramping up TOR in this way potentially decrease a person's health/life span?

[thegymbum]

That's a bit unsettling to me. Not too long ago I got finished reading The Youth Pill - The gene you describe is shorthand for "Target of Rapamycin," a gene that apparently controls many protein synthesis pathways as well as autophagy (put simply, a process in which cells break down and "eat" their own organelles and replace them with new ones). More synthesis, less autophagy; more autophagy, less synthesis, from what I know. Calorie restriction as well as rapamycin both appear to inhibit the activity of this gene and have both appeared to give organisms a greater maximum health/life span - in other words, less TOR activity = slower aging.

Would ramping up TOR in this way potentially decrease a person's health/life span?

At this point, it's pretty much impossible to predict. mTOR is involved in SO many cellular processes, growth, proliferation, dozens of signaling pathways, hormone production and release. The list goes on! BUT you might be on track in one case- some studies have shown that mTOR signaling is disrupted in certain cancers. So very well could be the case!

[S7R31F]

I generally stick to 30-50 per sitting and have atleast 2.5hrs in between except post workout. Ill have 60g in my shake then an hour or so later I'll have a meal with some meat

[RuslanUkraine]

This is just so dumb. Honestly the magazines where you read take 1g of protein per bodyweight is for BODYBUILDERS. Very few of you here workout as rigorously as you should in order to consume that much protein, including myself.

I don't take whey, i also don't OD on protein and yet i get bigger, and stronger than people who do take it. Aint that something. Of course i don't get big as fast as those on creatine but even if i stop working out, i don't lose weight like others, because i gain it the way i should. All these proteins powders are fairly new. Don't dive into it too much because i'll be honest, long term effects are not known

[TrueAmateur]

This is just so dumb. Honestly the magazines where you read take 1g of protein per bodyweight is for BODYBUILDERS. Very few of you here workout as rigorously as you should in order to consume that much protein, including myself.

I don't take whey, i also don't OD on protein and yet i get bigger, and stronger than people who do take it. Aint that something. Of course i don't get big as fast as those on creatine but even if i stop working out, i don't lose weight like others, because i gain it the way i should. All these proteins powders are fairly new. Don't dive into it too much because i'll be honest, long term effects are not knownhttp://imageshackz.com/images/me.gif

What a lot of people don't understand is protein doesn't just build muscle, it REBUILDS muscle. But anyways, you hit it perfectly mentioning that 1g per body weight is recommended for bodybuilders. That being the case, nobody NEEDS that nor should worry about trying to keep up with it unless they are competing as those type of levels and can afford to sustain it. The average person trying to enhance their muscle quality can do with 1/2 to 3/6ths of what they take and do fine. Yes protein is great and necessary, but if you are eating properly you sould be getting more than enough anyways.

[thegymbum]

1/2 to 3/6ths

1/2 = 3/6

[gottalift78]

What a lot of people don't understand is protein doesn't just build muscle, it REBUILDS muscle. But anyways, you hit it perfectly mentioning that 1g per body weight is recommended for bodybuilders. That being the case, nobody NEEDS that nor should worry about trying to keep up with it unless they are competing as those type of levels and can afford to sustain it. The average person trying to enhance their muscle quality can do with 1/2 to 3/6ths of what they take and do fine. Yes protein is great and necessary, but if you are eating properly you sould be getting more than enough anyways.

it really isn't that hard to get 1 gram of protein per bodyweight. learn how to measure your food and you will see, though consistent eating and diet, that you can hit your protein goals with no problems and with no shakes.

[TrueAmateur]

The average person trying to enhance their muscle quality can do with 1/2 to 3/6ths of what they take and do fine.

ROFLMAO. That was supposed to be 1/2 to 3/5ths of what they take and do fine. Typo. ;-p

[jpanic2]

I've back tracked and READ ALL of the posts from 2004 on this thread thus far..... Honestly, I'm not a beginner and I'm not fitness guru or professional athlete. My simple question and stats are this:

- I weigh about 185lbs
- Height: 5'11
- Male
- I'm not a Supplement "stacker" (no offense to anyone who does this)
- I gear my workouts for basketball & look and feel good as well
- I workout MON-FRI, NO weekends
- I take VPX Brand Protein Chocolate (4.4lbs)
* So really how much protein can the body absorb and @ what intervals?
* And what happens to the excess?? Excreted? Stored as fat? Waiting in line to be used?
* So what is really getting excreted when protein shakes are being taken? Is there a way to avoid it if you're losing the good nutrients?
- I'm aware of Creatine and the different types are modifications... the ones th@ interest me are:
*Creatine Monohydrate
*Creatine Ethyl Ester
*Kre-Alkalyne
***I need facts on Creatine and how it effects the body and I want to be able to reap the benefits and cut the side effects such as "loading phase" and "bloating" Also, how much Creatine can the body absorb (not sure what the factors are****

*what's the FACTUAL rule of thumb for water ratio to intake when on creatine?
*also if you choose a certain type of creatine, which product would you recommend overall. (personally, I'd choose unflavored powder so I can add it to my protein Chocolate Shake).

WHOLE OTHER TOPIC - Would the product called "Jack3d" replace my Creatine intake since it has it and gives me "energy" because of the caffeine??


Thank Guys for your help! Just ask questions if you guys need clarifications or answers... sorry for the scattered thoughts!!!!

[chromaffin]

One question at a time

[jpanic2]

Sorry... just had a lot going through my head.... All the question are connected in someway and one answer effects the next question...

[alexspt]

Iv'e heard numbers around 50-75g in ONE SITTING - and this is usually after a workout in combo with carbohydrates for maximum efficiency.

[Beastmode1991]

Your blood is the warehouse your muscle cells will only come out and take what they and look for whats available, if you take this ammount its not gonna go straight to your muscles what you need to be worried about it how fast it goes to waste i dont like casein because of of the reasons its bad for brain cells but i would get a isolate and concentrate mixed protein for fast and long supplys of aminos

[tjp5036]

This is just so dumb. Honestly the magazines where you read take 1g of protein per bodyweight is for BODYBUILDERS. Very few of you here workout as rigorously as you should in order to consume that much protein, including myself.

I don't take whey, i also don't OD on protein and yet i get bigger, and stronger than people who do take it. Aint that something. Of course i don't get big as fast as those on creatine but even if i stop working out, i don't lose weight like others, because i gain it the way i should. All these proteins powders are fairly new. Don't dive into it too much because i'll be honest, long term effects are not known

Do you know any research to back up your claim that 1g of protein per bodyweight is for BODYBUILDERS? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just curious where you came up with that?

[ExtremeAndy]

Hey buddy,
had a quick read thru the discussion, scientifically your body can only absorb a maximum of 26g of protein every 90mins, but after a workout this can increase to 52g, I would suggest a good isolate supplement, as far as a daily protein intake, I would suggest if you are training 5 times a week to take around 150-180g of protein a day, this would be a training regime we would call endurance/athlete, this will keep u tight and help replenish any ripped muscle thru training. For example based on a 2000-2200cal a day lean diet, you could take, 1 whole egg with 3 whites,(15g) shake (26g) 130-150g chicken (25-30g) 100g lean steak (30g) double up on shake after training (52g) and a fillet of fish around 150g (26-30g). As far as creatine and pre training energy drinks etc, try NO Xplode from bsn, it has considerably less caffeine in it than jacked and it really oxygenates the blood for pump and energy (drink plenty of water with those types of supplements) No offence to any1 but unless u have time to make and eat food 2hrs a day every day, shakes are handy and very cost effective when trying to make sure you have enough protein in your diet.

Someone had posted too much protein will only turn to fat, which is true if your total calories amount more than ur daily intake should be, but that could be said of any food stuffs carbs fats etc, doesn't apply only to protein. I would also suggest 2-3 liters of water a day along with 10ml-15ml of milk thistle per day to clean out your kidneys.

Hope this helps.

[Mettadown]

Hey buddy,

Someone had posted too much protein will only turn to fat

Hope this helps.

I heard that protein can only be stored in muscle, held in the stomach or excreted, it can't actually be stored as fat. Any truth to this?

[soccerandguitarbryan]

i guess ill break it down

you want most calories after your workout rather than before because thats when your muscles are begging for nurtrients.

but if its a night workout you dont want too many carbcalories unless your trying to stack pretty heavily ( inc good fats)

honestly i intake my protein through 6 sittings

breakfast

meal sup or shake or pro bar

lunch

repeat shake

workout

dinner

light snack.

fruit veggies and multi's inbetween.

so all in all yes you can consume 68 after ur workout,
but i would reccomend the shake being about 20 grams 10 mins after workout. then the dinner 20 - 30 mins seperate or vise versa.
thats not accurate at all....lol the part you said about having all your calories after you workout....you need to take in a good amount of protein before as well.....its just as important to have protein before your workout as well as after....and taking in carbs at night isnt bad that doesnt mean to eat 60g of oatmeal ha but there have been studies done for weight loss and people that ate some carbs at night actually lost more weight than people that didnt....carbs are not evil haha

[thedobosz1]

It all depends on your body type bro. Most people say 30-40g but I mean really think about it. These pros eat up to 10lbs of meat a day, usually 80-100g protein a meal. And think of early man, he could barely find food every day so he ate all he could while he could and survived. Our bodies will find a way so don't be afraid to eat a big steak or something worrying that you'll waste protein. As long as you're active, shoot for at least 20+g protein in several small meals throughout the day. 1.5-2g per lb of body weight is a good rule of thumb

[WannaGetYoked27]

Your blood is the warehouse your muscle cells will only come out and take what they and look for whats available, if you take this ammount its not gonna go straight to your muscles what you need to be worried about it how fast it goes to waste i dont like casein because of of the reasons its bad for brain cells but i would get a isolate and concentrate mixed protein for fast and long supplys of aminos

Where is this coming from? Not trying to argue, just looking for some info on it.

[ectobruh]

/ thread

mjmV8BlsJTQ

[samsumon]

All this gets thrown out with people soaring on IF diets which consist of no eating then one giant ass meal after a depleted workout..... Serious, just eat.

[stealth_swimmer]

/ thread

mjmV8BlsJTQ

was just about to post that :D

[Tokran]

How is this still a discussion?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22895782: Bolus ingestion (80% of daily protein) in one sitting gives same response as consuming 25% four times.

The body can probably digest a lot more, if it needed to. Just eat.

[roflolmaomgtfo]

Your body can generally metabolize protein in amounts of 17-22g per sitting. The amount depends on your training level, i.e., the more trained you are, the better your muscles are at absorbing protein. With that being said, the more trained you are, the less muscle you break a rest and throughout your training, so you don't necessarily require more protein post-workout.

Every study every presented that claims you can absorb more than 25g of protein was based on nitrogen balance. Within the study, they fail to recognize all the other bodily processes where nitrogen is a by-product.

Whatever protein you don't utilize to repair tissue gets oxidized and converted into sugar. Unless you're depriving yourself of carbohydrates, you are RARELY ever using protein as an energy source. And even then, you're using ketones, not protein.

Give yourself a window of approximately 2-3 hours to metabolize the protein you've consumed before having more.


My question is just that. How much protein can you body absorb in one sitting? And how often can you intake more protein?

For example, say I have a protein shake with 34g of protein, can I have another and still absorb all 68g of protein or do I need to wait a certain amount of time and if so, how long? Thanks!

[Peppe21]

[QUOTE=Big Cat;3847933]They don't, its bull****. Some amino acids however can be used for the process of gluconeogenisis and turned into a substrate of the Krebs cycle that can later be regenerated to glucose.[/QUOTE

Yes they can, do some studies, read some serious books and you can see how it can happen!!!! Dont read all the stupid magazines!!!!

[Peppe21]

Yes it is!!!!! Do some studies instead to read stupid magazie!!!

[Peppe21]

lol, this has made me laugh...

ok..

1. protein does not turn into fat.
2. the amount of protein you need to take in should be staggered depending on your weight, and workouts. if you are a big guy, you eat big, so more protein (maybe anything up to and over 400g). if you are a little guy, if you eat too much protein you will just **** it out. simple.
3. if you are a little guy, aim for 250-350g. that way you will probably eat enough or more than you need.
4. too much protein does nothing to you. your body simply spends time digesting it, and getting rid of it.
5. use the search function, this question has been asked before.



Thats bull****, eccess of protein get stored as fat!!!! If you go to uni instead of reading magazines you can learn more!!!! Im a nutritionist, i know it!!! And if you have too much protein you can han have a few problems even calcium problem!!!! Study yung guys study!!!!!

[HJBM3]

I'm sure at times the body is perfectly capable of absorbing 100 grams an hour. However I don't see that being the case for most of the day. Also, saying it could absorb 100 grams an hour is in no way suggesting you should eat 100 grams EVERY hour ...

What we do know is that based on a 2000 calorie diet, our ancestors consumed 200 to 250 grams of protein a day, mostly from meat. That's 40-50% of their diet. Man has only been around 8 to 10.000 years, evolution has not changed our metabolism significantly in that time-frame, which suggests that consuming at least 250 grams per day, and depending on caloric intake, more protein per day (40-50%) is not life-threatening, but instead considerably healthier than the current western diet. On top of that we ate more unsaturated fats (which suggests part of that protein came from fish or plants instead of from potatoe chips and anything deep fried :) ) and took in roughly more than 10 times the amount of Vitamin C (so supplementing 400 mg on the day is not a bad thing). So far our sedentary lifestyle and adapted diet has given us little more than increase cardiovascular problems and obesity. So I think in retrospect these myths about kidney problems seem rather mild.


I read this and did an instant face palm so I had to sign up to reply. Modern Homo Sapiens have been around for at least 100,000 years in our current evolved state. Some biologists argue maybe even up to 250,000 years. Regardless of your huge error, how can you possible know how our metabolism has changed over that period of time? It is impossible to know due to a lack of data, but we do know that even today, between different cultures and ethnicity, we find variations in metabolism. This implies that it could be VASTLY different than our ancestors tens of thousands of years ago. Still, regardless of all this, to imply that what we used to do as a species is what we should do today, is just wrong. There is so much more research and knowledge today, that we know without a doubt that our past diets many times didn't come close to the IDEAL diet for out biological makeup. What we ate thousands of years ago was limited by availability; whether geographically, monetarily, or what have you, and we don't have many of those same problems today.

I am only calling you out specifically because of how many people posted to this comment in praise, when it is full of statements that are just plain wrong.

[RyGuy14]

Ultimately, do you really want to take a chance with less protein? Just eat up!

[xbayrockx]

It astounds me that so many people feel that taking more than 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight is fine and healthy

Scrub alert

[bobbythebob]

examine.com/faq/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-one-sitting.html

[inaka_rob]

wow. I have read so much crap in this string my eyes are turning brown. Protein being stored as fat. protein ruining your kidneys. Protein shakes a waste of money.

Here is some food for thought. Think about animals in the wild. Think about early humans. Often they would eat once a day, or maybe once a week! They would kill a deer and eat the whole damn thing in a day. Like a 1000g of protein. The body would take this and use it over the course of a week or until the next time they ate. This is why humans today get FAT. Our bodies were designed to STORE and were designed to eat very rarely compared to this 6 times a day crap. Even early humans who were lucky enough to eat once a day, their bodies adjusted it. How many wild animals do you think get 6 meals a day? They aren't fat because of ingesting a weeks worth of protein in one sitting, or dying of kidney diseases because they ingested a weeks worth of protein in one sitting.

[DinoT1985]

Relevant study regarding the anabolic response and protein absoption.

http://www.clinicalnutritionjournal.com/article/S0261-5614%2812%2900266-X/abstract

[Lintford]

I think it's been posted above, but there was a study recently, popularised by Layne, which looked at around 40g of whey every 3-5 hours maximising muscle protein synthesis.

It wouldn't hurt to shoot for more just in case, but evidence says if your taking in 70-80g in one serving it probably isn't any more beneficial in muscle growth factors.

Also, Prof Stuart Phillips has been looking at evidence to say that 0.25g per kilo per meal and 1.8-2.0g per kilo per day will maximise muscle protein synthesis.

[alexnorton]

As much as you want... in may not be best for muscle growth of protein synthesis, but if you eat 200-250g or protein, the aminos will enter your bloodstream, but will take more time

[Jasonw1178]

It's pretty well established that an intake of many smaller meals is better than taking fewer large meals. About protien intake, it's all good but if you take in more calories than your body can use, it turns to fat or waste.

[DinoT1985]

It's pretty well established that an intake of many smaller meals is better than taking fewer large meals. About protien intake, it's all good but if you take in more calories than your body can use, it turns to fat or waste.

Data in regard to meal quantity? There's actually only two studies that I am aware of that show that smaller more frequent meals are better than say two large meals. While the likes of IF such as LeanGains where most consume two large meals per day have a lot of scientific backing.

Of course catabolism is always the thought and main defence of frequent meals, but the time it takes to reach muscular atrophy has been great shortened.

It is also worth noting (on the subject of the thread) that the older we get, the easier our bodies utilise protein (Yang, et al 2012). Genetics plays a huge role, but in terms of limiting protein to just 20-30g of protein per meal? I think there's enough evidence to put that old school thought at bay.

[Lintford]

Evidence I have seen usually advocates 4-5 meals per day to maximise muscle protein synthesis, as opposed to the 6-7 many people utilise.

[x-trainer ben]

In Laynes video series he says under 200 pounds 30-40
over 200 40-60 3-5 times a day.