capsaicin for fatloss

[pu12en12g]

Hey guys ! Let't talk about capsaicin for fatloss.. both topically and orally. I'll start things off...

Combined effects of red pepper and caffeine consumption on 24 h energy balance in subjects given free access to foods.

The effects of red pepper and caffeine ingestion on energy and macronutrient balances were examined in eight Caucasian male subjects. All subjects participated in two randomly assigned conditions: control and experimental (red pepper and caffeine). After ingesting a standardized breakfast, subjects ate three meals ad libitum (lunch, dinner and breakfast) and snacks which were served approximately 2 h after the lunch and dinner over a 24 h period. Two appetizers with or without 3 g red pepper) were given before lunch and dinner, and a drink (decaffeinated coffee with or without 200 mg caffeine) was served at all meals and snacks except for the after-dinner snack. It is also important to note that on the experimental day, 8.6 and 7.2 g red pepper were also added to lunch and dinner respectively.

Red pepper and caffeine consumption significantly reduced the cumulative ad libitum energy intake and increased energy expenditure. The mean difference in energy balance between both conditions was 4000 kJ/d. Moreover, the power spectral analysis of heart rate suggested that this effect of red pepper was associated with an increase in sympathetic:parasympathetic nervous system activity ratio. These results indicate that the consumption of red pepper and caffeine can induce a considerable change in energy balance when individuals are given free access to foods.

Br J Nutr. 2001 Feb;85(2):203-11

Yoshioka M, Doucet E, Drapeau V, Dionne I, Tremblay A.

Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, Division of Kinesiology, Laval University, Ste-Foy, Quebec G1K 7P4, Canada.


Originally posted by Par Deus
Capsaicin is the stuff in peppers that gives them their hot taste. Of interest here is that, when nerves are exposed to capsaicin, they release a very large amount of CGRP. Of course, too much CGRP and you can actually damage the nerve permanently. Curiously, by permanently damaging capsaicin-sensitive nerves, rats and mice actually get leaner. For example, in one study researchers took mice and desensitized them to capsaicin by giving them a very large dose of the compound at the age of 1.5 months. They then compared those mice with matched controls at one year of age.

What they found was that that the desensitized mice had 9% less epididymal and 30 % less retroperitoneal fat than the controls. This was due to a reduction in the number of fat cells. The authors proposed that by desensitizing the capsaicin-sensitive neurons they attenuated the normal age-associated increase in CGRP activity and thus promoted whole body insulin insensitivity.

Now it's entirely questionable if humans would have a similar reaction, as rats and mice use their capsaicin-sensitive neurons to regulate thermogenesis in their brown fat tissue. So, we could be witnessing some kind of interaction with the brown fat thermogenesis system, which in turn causes this leanness. Now, much can be said about capsaicin as a fat loss aid at least in rats. But we are kind of getting off track.

What we really want to do for our purposes is provide a small dose of capsaicin to the nerve tissue that surrounds our subcutaneous adipose tissue. This way CGRP is released in this region resulting in localized insulin resistance, which should enhance fat loss from the targeted area. Furthermore CGRP is one of the most potent—if not the most potent–vasodilator naturally produced by the human body. So, it should substantially increase blood flow to the area, allowing for removal of the fatty acids that are released by Lipoderm's lipolytic ingredients.

Now back to nicotine. Not only does nicotine also cause the release of CGRP, it does so synergistically with capsaicin. In fact it seems that nicotine may sensitize the vanilloid receptors that capsaicin binds to (Yes that's vanilloid as in vanilla; capsaicin and vanilla are very close cousins at the molecular level). Nicotine is of course mildly lipolytic in its own right, which is an added benefit. In short I propose the addition of nicotine and capsaicin to the Lipoderm formula of your choice for enhanced fat reduction.


"If you are willing to put up with the pain you will be rewarded with accelerated fat loss."
You may be wondering why this was not included in the formula if it's so potent. Well there is one downside and let me tell you it's a big one: that downside is pain. I have tried this concoction and I will say it is not even remotely pleasant. It induces a severe burning sensation that subsides into a mild burning/numbness that can be felt fairly deeply in the tissue. However, if you are willing to put up with the pain you will be rewarded with accelerated fat loss.

[Hari K.]

does this mean I should mix coffee grinds, chilli pepper flakes, and ciggarettes togeather and rub it all over my body?


Or, since I drink 2 cups of coffee in the morning, eat chilli pepper on just about everything and smoke a few ciggarettes a week, am I in the optimal spectrum for fat loss?

[carcinogen]

capsaicin is "pepper spray"...dont you think that would kinda hurt?

[Hari K.]

Originally posted by carcinogen
capsaicin is "pepper spray"...dont you think that would kinda hurt?

capsaicin is IN pepper spray. Rub some chilli in your eye... same effect as pepper spray.

what a odd comment outta my mouth.

[pu12en12g]

Hari K.

- They make Nicotine gum proven in studies to be effective @ 1mg (stacked with caffeine for best results).

- CAPZASIN-HP (0.1% Capsaicin) is a topical cream and yes it is painful, but it's a "good" kinda pain IMO

Let's try to stay on topic please. We are discussing Capsaicin for fatloss.

[carcinogen]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
Hari K.

- They make Nicotine gum proven in studies to be effective @ 1mg (stacked with caffeine for best results).

- CAPZASIN-HP (0.1% Capsaicin) is a topical cream and yes it is painful, but it's a "good" kinda pain IMO

Let's try to stay on topic please. We are discussing Capsaicin for fatloss.

I take it that you are using it now, right?

[pu12en12g]

Originally posted by carcinogen
I take it that you are using it now, right?

I tested it out (abs / obliques) before, to assess my pain tolerance. The pain is definately tolerable, but I want to get some opinions on dosage etc. I don't even know how much Par was using.

It creates localized sweating like crazy for hours after each application.

[pu12en12g]

"In conclusion, the acute administration of capsaicin-containing red pepper sauce suspension in the proximal stomach causes a decrease in proximal gastric tone, an inhibition of the phasic contractility of the proximal stomach and an increase in the compliance and mechano-sensitivity of the proximal stomach, but does not affect the post-prandial motility of the proximal stomach. The acute administration of capsaicin induces a transient epigastric burning sensation, and this is followed by a decrease in the intensity of post-prandial symptoms. These data provide supportive evidence for the involvement of vanilloid receptor 1 in the modulation of gastric sensorimotor function in humans. They also add support to a putative therapeutic role for vanilloid receptor 1 modulation in hypersensitive functional disorders."

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2036.2004.01823.x/full/


Effects of sesamin and capsaicin on the mRNA expressions of delta6 and delta5 desaturases in rat primary cultured hepatocytes.

Sesamin, a lignan in sesame seeds and sesame seed oil, and capsaicin, the pungent principle of hot red pepper, affect lipid metabolism. Sesamin specifically inhibits delta5 desaturase activity in the Mortierella alpina fungus and rat liver microsomes, however, the effects of sesamin and capsaicin on mRNA expressions of delta6 and delta5 desaturases are not still clear. In this study, we investigated the effects of sesamin and capsaicin on the desaturation indexes of delta6 [(gamma-linolenic acid+dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid)/linolenic acid, (GLA+DGLA)/LA] and delta5 (arachidonic acid/DGLA, AA/DGLA) and mRNA expressions of delta6 and delta5 desaturases in rat primary cultured hepatocytes. To measure the mRNA expressions of delta6 and delta5 desaturase, hepatocytes were cultured in the presence of sesamin or capsaicin for 24 h. To investigate the delta6 or delta5 desaturation index, hepatocytes were cultured in the presence of LA or DGLA, respectively, with sesamin or capsaicin for 24 h. The fatty acid composition of the cells was measured by GLC. The mRNA expressions of delta6 and delta5 desaturases were detected by real time quantitative RT-PCR. Sesamin and capsaicin had no effect on the mRNA expressions of delta6 and delta5 desaturases in rat hepatocytes. Capsaicin had no effect on both delta6 and delta5 desaturation indexes, either. On the other hand, sesamin significantly reduced the index of delta5 desaturation but not delta6 desaturation. These results suggested that sesamin reduced the delta5 desaturation index without the changing of the delta5 desaturase mRNA level.

Umeda-Sawada R, Fujiwara Y, Abe H, Seyama Y.
J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2003 Dec;49(6):442-6.

Department of Nutrition and Food Science, Ochanomizu University, 2-1-1, Otsuka, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo, 112-8610 Japan.

[SupaNatural]

There is also an intranasal product, although targeted at allergies and such. Don't know how that's pulled off though.

[Hari K.]

Sorry Pu.. wasn't trying to get smart.

So aside from a topical cream. Would this theory pass on too people who drink a couple cups of coffee a day and have a diet that includes liberal amounts of chilli pepper? Would that same person benefit from minimal amounts of nicotine as well?

Just for the sake of arguement.. the person mentioned above is me....

[Hari K.]

Sorry Pu.. wasn't trying to get smart.

So aside from a topical cream. Would this theory pass on too people who drink a couple cups of coffee a day and have a diet that includes liberal amounts of chilli pepper? Would that same person benefit from minimal amounts of nicotine as well?

Just for the sake of arguement.. the person mentioned above is me....

[Romac]

i just splashed texas pete hot sauce on my gut, sprinkled cayenne pepper on it, rubbed it in and let is sit for 5 minutes.

burn baby burn!

Someone has to do this on one side of their gut and not the other for one month, and list the starting and ending skin-fold measurements.

[Hari K.]

Originally posted by Romac
i just splashed texas pete hot sauce on my gut, sprinkled cayenne pepper on it, rubbed it in and let is sit for 5 minutes.

burn baby burn!

...

nice.

but is this realistic? Pu.. you got any working product examples of these studies?

[Romac]

Pu's gonna have to do the study himself: :D

Someone has to do this on one side of their gut and not the other for one month, and list the starting and ending skin-fold measurements.

[pu12en12g]

Wow... I keep reading this one over and over... can't make much sense of it:

http://www.if-pan.krakow.pl/pjp/pdf/2002/03_9.pdf

Effect of capsaicin and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) on ion transport in the selected experimental models.

The aim of the present work was to determine the changes in ion transport in the selected epithelium-lined organs under influence of mechanical stimuli, and also to assess similarities and differences in reactions to capsaicin and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) between trachea and caecum of rabbit and the skin of frog in this experimental setup. The experiments were conducted on rabbit trachea and caecum, and the skin of frog, Rana esculenta L. The experiments consisted in measuring transepithelial electrical potential (PD in mV) with Ussing apparatus, modified to enable testing of the effects of mechanical stimulation of organs and defined pharmacological treatments. It was demonstrated that the addition of DMSO to the stimulating fluid decreased reversible hyperpolarization (dPD) after mechanical stimulation by at least 50% in all studied groups. On the other hand, action of capsaicin was dependent on the organ studied as well as on experimental conditions (e.g. type of incubation). Capsaicin decreased PD and reaction to mechanical stimulation in trachea incubated in Ringer solution supplemented with amiloride. On the other hand, it did not influence electrophysiological parameters of the trachea following its incubation with bumetanide. Capsaicin did not change electrical potential or reactivity of rabbit caecum incubated with both amiloride and bumetanide. The administration of capsaicin on frog skin incubated with bumetanide caused inhibition of the reaction to mechanical stimulation, whereas during incubation with amiloride no changes were recorded in PD and dPD of the skin. The present study demonstrated that capsaicin and DMSO could modify processes of ion transport dependent on mechanical stimulation.

Kosik-Bogacka DI, Banach B, Tyrakowski T, Wojciechowska I.

Department of Biology and Medical Parasitology, Pomeranian Medical University, Szczecin, Poland. kodan@sci.pam.szczecin.pl


Action of capsaicin and related peptides on the ionic transport across the skin of Rana esculenta.

Capsaicin at low concentrations increases the short circuit current (SCC) across frog skin. Simultaneous measurements of both transepithelial fluxes of 22Na or 36Cl demonstrate that the SCC increase is due to stimulation of sodium active absorption. Capsaicin acts through the liberation of several peptides; thus these peptides were tested on the SCC across frog skin. Those more active are, in order of potency: Cyclic Calcitonin Gene Related Peptide (CGRP), Kassinin and Eledoisin, Substance P (SP) and Neurokinin A. Neurokinin B and Vasoactive Intestinal Peptide (VIP) have no effect. Also the actions of SP and CGRP are due mainly to stimulation of Na+ active absorption. A strict parallelism regarding the sensitivity to inhibitors (Naproxen, SQ22536 and CP96345) between SP, CGRP and Capsaicin strengthens the hypothesis that SP and CGRP are liberated by Capsaicin in this tissue.

Lippe C, Bellantuono V, Castronuovo G, Ardizzone C, Cassano G.
Institute of General Physiology, University of Bari, Italy.
Arch Int Physiol Biochim Biophys. 1994 Jan-Feb;102(1):51-4.

[Harland]

Ive read several things on DMSO and CAP.

What i gather is that DMSO will work with all topicals. You apply it first wait like 15 minutes and then use your topical.

Scenario:
Apply DMSO, wait 15 minutes, Apply CAP, Apply Topical-FATLOSS-Aid.

What that be going to far?

Should you just add CAP/DMSO?

[pu12en12g]

Originally posted by Harland
What i gather is that DMSO will work with all topicals. You apply it first wait like 15 minutes and then use your topical.


So far what I've read it appears to "work" either way, but theoretically it would work better in the way you described (applying it seperately).

[BiggJohn]

pu12en12g-

You've read about spooky Lipoderm Ultra I believe. Works incredible, like a fat eraser.

[Romac]

Originally posted by BiggJohn
pu12en12g-

You've read about spooky Lipoderm Ultra I believe. Works incredible, like a fat eraser.

i hope you're being sarcastic

if not please reference the study or personal log of someone that used it to *cough* 'erase fat'

All the logs i have seen have indicated that this product does not work, therefore you must mean to be sarcastic...please place a smile after future sarcasm so you don't confuse us

[Harland]

i have a log of using just plain lipoderm with a clean diet and cardio. I even used it when a super high bodyfat.

It was a while back

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=270460

[Romac]

Originally posted by Harland
i have a log of using just plain lipoderm with a clean diet and cardio. I even used it when a super high bodyfat.

It was a while back

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=270460

yeah it was your log that i was refering to :)

your lack of results showed me this product did not work

although i don't think you listed before and after skinfold measurements grom your gut...just waist measurements.

if you have to apply this stuff everyday for 1 month to get a 1mm skinfold change, it doesn't work. in one month i have lost 8mm off my gut from diet alone.

do you have skinfolds before and after?

[Harland]

well i saw some changes in the mirror that previous dieting didn't do. Im not saying it took off all my fat.

I did take some skinfold measurements, but they were the crappy 3-point method. I'm now using the 9-point, maybe i will do another log in the future :D

[Romac]

Originally posted by Harland
I did take some skinfold measurements, but they were the crappy 3-point method. I'm now using the 9-point, maybe i will do another log in the future :D

well the only measurement of importance is the gut skinfold from before and after.

if this stuff costs $30 per bottle and applying it for 1 month everyday results in a 1mm gut skinfold loss, it's just not worth it.

I got rid of 8mm from diet alone in 1 month.

I would pay $30 to get rid of 3mm extra gut fat in 1 month, but to do the test would be difficult. You'd first of all have to know exactly what sort of diet and workload allows you to maintain exactly the same BF, then you'd have to stick to that diet and workload for 1 month while you used the product. Which would pretty much be a wasted month if you could lose 8mm if you just went on a diet.

[BiggJohn]

Originally posted by Romac
i hope you're being sarcastic

if not please reference the study or personal log of someone that used it to *cough* 'erase fat'

All the logs i have seen have indicated that this product does not work, therefore you must mean to be sarcastic...please place a smile after future sarcasm so you don't confuse us

No joke little guy, I'll post a pic in a week.

[Romac]

Originally posted by BiggJohn
No joke little guy, I'll post a pic in a week.

ha ha ha they call me pee wee :) 5'10" 174lbs with 10%bf is not that little man considering most non-lifter guys that are 5'10" and 200lbs (like i was 2 months ago) are carrying around about 20%bf

pics are not really necessary for me to believe you man, but i would be very, very interested in seeing your before and after gut skinfold measurements. Like i said earlier...i lost 8mm off my gut with diet alone in 1 month so your diet and workload would have to be controlled while you applied this stuff for a month in order to really know if it was working or not.

every log or account i have ever seen of this stuff being used has shown little to no change in skinfold measurements.

If you can document that this stuff works, you would be the first account i have ever seen.

[Harland]

romac: to you disbelieve in all topicals? or just fat loss agents?

[Romac]

Originally posted by Harland
romac: to you disbelieve in all topicals? or just fat loss agents?

it's not really a matter of disbelief man. I really wanna believe. All i want is to see is a couple people post their before and after gut skinfold measurements and a description as to how they controlled their diet and workload to make sure the fat loss wasn't from that.

Even better...i'd love to read a clinical study of these products.

I'd love to be able to rub $30 worth of stuff on my gut for a month and get even 3 or 4mm knocked off my skinfold measurement. 3 or 4mm would save me half a month of doing 30 or 40 minutes of cardio every day and dieting like crazy.

I believe that as of yet an effective topically applied fat-loss agent is not available. As soon as one becomes available you can bet i will buy it.

[Romac]

i found the actual study that big cat references in one of his articles regarding lipoderm, but i'm not sure how they measured the results. They say "p < 0.05 to p < 0.001" with reference to thigh girth reduction. I presume they are talking about percent? If so, I presume by .05 and .001 they mean 5% reduction vs 1% reduction in the control thigh? If so that means a 23" thigh would be reduced in girth by about 1"and the control thighs were reduced by about 1/4"? So the net loss after 6 weeks was 3/4" off of circumference which translates to about 1mm lost of fat thickness.

So it works but is a 1mm loss in fat thickness worth the cost of a bottle? I can lose 1mm of fat off my gut in a week or less with regular dieting, so for me the answer to the question is no. 5 or 6 days of diet and cardio are not worth $30, but i guess we each have to make that decision for ourselves.:


Topical fat reduction.

Greenway FL, Bray GA, Heber D.

Department of Medicine, UCLA School of Medicine, Torrance, CA, USA.

The fat on women's thighs is more difficult to mobilize due to increased alpha-2 adrenergic receptor activity induced by estrogen. Lipolysis can be initiated through adipocyte receptor stimulation (beta adrenergic) or inhibition (adenosine or alpha-2 adrenergic) or by inhibition of phosphodiesterase. Since many women desire regional thigh fat loss, a series of clinical trials were initiated using one thigh as a double-blinded control. Trial #1: Five overweight women had injections of isoproterenol at intervals around the thigh three times a week for 4 weeks with diet and walking. Trial #2: Five overweight woman had ointment containing forskolin, yohimbine and aminophylline applied to the thigh five times a week for 4 weeks after hypertonic warm soaks with a diet and walking. Trial #3: Eighteen overweight women were divided into three groups of six and trial #2 was repeated with each agent alone vs. placebo using forskolin, yohimbine or aminophylline in separate ointments. Trial #4: Thirty overweight women had 10% aminophylline ointment applied to the thigh five times a week for 6 weeks with diet and walking. Chemistry panel, theophylline level and patch testing were performed. Trial #5: Twelve women had trial #4 repeated with 2% aminophylline cream without a diet or walking. Trial #6: Trial #5 was repeated with 0.5% aminophylline cream. All trials except yohimbine ointment gave significantly more girth loss from the treated thigh (p < 0.05 to p < 0.001). Chemistry panel showed no toxicity. Theophylline was undetectable and patch testing was negative. We conclude that topical fat reduction for women's thighs can be achieved without diet or exercise.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial

PMID: 8697059 PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

[pu12en12g]

Ok

1) Yes, Harland should have gotten to a lower BF % naturally first before using Lipoderm-Y. Even Avant Labs says that. It is most effective at a lower beginning bodyfat. He also should have stacked it with E+C for better results. He was also stacking it with NO2 = not a good idea.

2) Secondly, this thread isn't about whether or not Lipoderm-Y works. This is about Capsaicin, either orally or topically... alone, or stacked.

3) Read the following thread for a discussion about Lipoderm-Y. Watch the pure ownage progress... very entertaining I promise :cool: :

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=305803

[Romac]

wow what a long thread...ok i took my comments there and will discontinue talking about lipoderm in this thread.

btw this is a summary of my post in that thread:

I believe that lipoderm works, but i also believe it doesn't work well enough to justify me buying a bottle (or 2).

My findings are as follows:
6 weeks of lipoderm application can eliminate approximately 1mm of fat off the area to which it is applied at a cost of approximately $50.

It works, but is a 1mm loss in fat thickness worth the cost of 1 or 2 bottles? I can lose 1mm of fat off my gut in a week or less with regular dieting, so for me the answer to the question is no. I have 17mm of fat on my lower gut right now so what value is a 1mm reduction? $50? I think not. 5 or 6 days of diet and cardio are not worth $50 or $60, but i guess we each have to make that decision for ourselves. What is the thickness of the fat on your gut? And how much would it cost you to get rid of half of it at the rate of $50 per mm? And how long would it take @ 1mm per 4 or 6 weeks? For me it would take 9 or 10 months of using this product, combined with cardio and diet, at a cost of $500. No thanks. With regular cardio and diet I can get rid of 8mm of fat from my gut in 1 month for free vs 10 months for $500.:

[Spook]

Don't worry I am not here to pimp lipoderm. But you asked for before and after caliper measurements with cap.

this is from viator one of the members over at AL I am not sure if he posts here or not.



damn this stuff is crazy. my diet's been for **** lateyl due to job/stress/lack of time to cook, etc.

but my caliper readings went from 30mm to 26mm on my chest, and 27mm to 21 mm around my belly button. IN A WEEK!

but yesterday I had to run out of the gym after cardio, with my shirt off, in 35 degree, rainy weather. people looked at me like i was crazy, standing there with my shirt off in the freezing rain and loving it.

On a sadder note, I recently bought 110 pieces of nicotine gum, extracted the nicotine w/ alcohol, then put the pyrex w/ the alcohol/nicotine mixture in the oven at the lowest setting to get it down to 2oz. Unfortunately I forgot the oven was on and burnt the **** out of it. $40 down the drain


Plenty more where that came from. There is a very long thread over on our board about cap. If you have any questions about it I would be happy to try and answer them.

[Romac]

Originally posted by Spook
Don't worry I am not here to pimp lipoderm. But you asked for before and after caliper measurements with cap.

this is from viator one of the members over at AL I am not sure if he posts here or not.


i'm over there reading all about lipoderm, but you can understand that that is the absolute last place i would go for an objective report of lipoderm results.

for balance:
Beast said:
I have been using Lipoderm Ultra on my love handles for two weeks, with the last week also using Cap HP.

During the previous month, I lost 3/8" off my waist. During the 2 weeks with Lipoderm Ultra I lost 5/8". So I loss more fat in less time. BUT, something that seems odd to me is my caliper measurements didn't change. The ab and love handle mm's were exactly the same...

[Harland]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
1) Yes, Harland should have gotten to a lower BF % naturally first before using Lipoderm-Y. Even Avant Labs says that. It is most effective at a lower beginning bodyfat. He also should have stacked it with E+C for better results. He was also stacking it with NO2 = not a good idea.

Excuse me?

1) I didn't use lipoderm-Y
2) I knew my fat stores were above the muscle from previous cuts
3) Used no2?, no, i've only used no2 twice and once was approx 1-2 months before and second was about 1 month after lipoderm-ultra.
4) I didn't know/research enough about ec when i started lu.

[Romac]

------------------------------------------------------------------------
viator said:
"but my caliper readings went from 30mm to 26mm on my chest, and 27mm to 21 mm around my belly button. IN A WEEK!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------
viator 2 post down said:
"yup, with lipo-ultra w/ purecap added I've dropped my skinfold measurments (next to my belly button) from 26 to 21 mm in a little over two weeks.

results have been less than stellar for chest fat though. gonna try the absolved next."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

hmmmm inconsistent
first 6mm lost in one week off gut
then 5mm lost in over 2 weeks off gut
which is it?

first 4mm off chest in 1 week
then after over 2 weeks chest results are "less than stellar"
which is it?

sorry to highjack this thread again but i can't just let a post pimping lipoderm go without clarifying the inconsitencies in the advertisement

[Harland]

Spook,

sorry to bother you, but im just a little off here, which is it:
1) Apply Cap, then wait 10-15 minutes and apply LU
OR
2) Apply Cap and then apply LU

[pu12en12g]

Originally posted on Avant Labs board
On a sadder note, I recently bought 110 pieces of nicotine gum, extracted the nicotine w/ alcohol, then put the pyrex w/ the alcohol/nicotine mixture in the oven at the lowest setting to get it down to 2oz. Unfortunately I forgot the oven was on and burnt the **** out of it. $40 down the drain


That's classic :D

Hey Harland,

In your Lipoderm-Ultra (not Lipoderm-Y my bad) thread you posted a link to your diet which said that you were taking NO2. This is the source of the confusion:


Originally posted by Harland
I want to be cut in about 5-6 weeks. Then just maintain for a while. I will cut for two weeks with no different supplements. That way I can see if I am doing it right. I will then add some BCAA, Liopderm-ultra, and some NO2.

Sorry if I misunderstood your thread bro.

[Harland]

yes, that is the index were i discussed what i might add to my supplement regimen during the cutting phase.

but was not on no2 during lu.

[Spook]

i'm over there reading all about lipoderm, but you can understand that that is the absolute last place i would go for an objective report of lipoderm results.


Oh I totaly understand. Its no skin of my back. I don't get any money from lipoderm sales. I do think its a good product though. Absolved works better for me though, but my girlfriend swares by lipoderm.

My expertise is in cap not lipoderm. I don't know squat about transdermal delivery. When I offered to answer questions it was about cap not lipoderm.


Spook,

sorry to bother you, but im just a little off here, which is it:
1) Apply Cap, then wait 10-15 minutes and apply LU
OR
2) Apply Cap and then apply LU

i have no idea. I added mine directly to lipoderm. I used the absorbine jr. HOT verson which is jsut camphor, cap, alcohal, and menthol. All I did was add it and then add some additional Y-HCL to get the concentration back to where it was.

You might want to ask some of the guys over at AL how they used the Capzacin HP or zostrix cream as I know some of them said they were useing that.

[Harland]

Originally posted by Spook
You might want to ask some of the guys over at AL how they used the Capzacin HP or zostrix cream as I know some of them said they were useing that.

Alright, i might just do that, i wont be cutting for a while :) and when i do, i have some other products in mind first. I will try it eventually though :D

[Big Cat]

Capaicin does not directly aid fat loss in combination with pro beta adrenergic drugs (whatever increases amount or activity of epinephrine or norepinephrine at the b2 receptor or increases b2 activity including but not limited to ephedrine, yohimbine, clenbuterol, caffeine, aminophylline etc) because increases b2 activity decreases CGRP release from capsaicin sensitive neurons (see study below)

The addition of capsaicing to a topical fat loss cream would only work directly on aiding fat loss is if it contained no such products. I do believe adding a small amount of capsaicin may still help indirectly, because capsaicin is a potent penetration enhancer in sufficiently small doses to not interfere with localized delivery.


J Dent Res. 2003 Apr;82(4):308-11. Related Articles, Links


beta 2-Adrenoceptor regulation of CGRP release from capsaicin-sensitive neurons.

Bowles WR, Flores CM, Jackson DL, Hargreaves KM.

Division of Endodontics, University of Minnesota School of Dentistry, USA.

Previous studies have suggested that neurotransmitter substances from the sympatho-adrenomedullary system regulate pulpal blood flow (PBF), in part, by the inhibition of vasoactive neuropeptide release from pulpal sensory neurons. However, no study has evaluated the role of beta-adrenoceptors. We evaluated the hypothesis that activation of beta-adrenoceptors inhibits immunoreactive calcitonin gene-related peptide (iCGRP) release from capsaicin-sensitive nociceptive neurons via in vitro superfusion of bovine dental pulp. Either norepinephrine or epinephrine inhibited capsaicin-evoked iCGRP. The norepinephrine effect was blocked by the selective beta(2)-adrenoceptor antagonist, ICI 118,551, but not by pre-treatment with the selective beta(1)-adrenoceptor antagonist, atenolol. In addition, application of albuterol, a selective beta(2)-adrenoceptor agonist, significantly blocked capsaicin-evoked release of iCGRP. Collectively, these studies demonstrate that activation of beta(2)-adrenoceptors in dental pulp significantly reduces exocytosis of neuropeptides from capsaicin-sensitive nociceptors. This effect may have physiologic significance in regulating PBF. Moreover, since capsaicin selectively activates nociceptors, beta(2)-adrenoceptor agonists may have clinical utility as peripherally acting therapeutics for dental pain and inflammation.

[Harland]

Big Cat, would or too much to use DMSO first, then use your topical solution with a little cap in it?

[x_muscle]

Originally posted by Big Cat
Capaicin does not directly aid fat loss in combination with pro beta adrenergic drugs (whatever increases amount or activity of epinephrine or norepinephrine at the b2 receptor or increases b2 activity including but not limited to ephedrine, yohimbine, clenbuterol, caffeine, aminophylline etc) because increases b2 activity decreases CGRP release from capsaicin sensitive neurons (see study below)

The addition of capsaicing to a topical fat loss cream would only work directly on aiding fat loss is if it contained no such products. I do believe adding a small amount of capsaicin may still help indirectly, because capsaicin is a potent penetration enhancer in sufficiently small doses to not interfere with localized delivery.

so your saying its better to use Capaicin alone with Y-hcl?

is good to Y-hcl in morning and Capaicin in night to avoid mixing the 2 together?

[Spook]

See I would think it to be a non issue with Y-HCL. It would depend on wether localized Y-HCL can increase localized epi or nor-epi. If it can then you are correct that nor-epi will decrease CGRP release. If it does not then it does not matter.

[Big Cat]

Well pre-synaptic a2 receptor blocking will result in decreased NE reuptake, and since none of it can bind to the post-synaptic a2, there is more and more of that left to bind the b2. Hence pro-beta-adrenergic. Capsaicin would exert no direct effect on lipolysis in combination with yohimbine. But I thought it was a great idea to add some nonetheless, since capsaicin is a very powerful PE that can enhance delivery in sufficiently small doses to not interfere with localized delivery. In fact its one of the ones I researched in light of resolving the problem with large volume PE's.

[pu12en12g]

So let me get this straight BC. You are saying that the Cap by itself orally or topically will not cause fatloss ?

[Big Cat]

Not when combined with products that increase activity of the b2 receptor, either directly (clenbuterol, albuterol) or indirectly (ephedrine, yohimbine, caffeine, etc).That's not to say it is without merit when you combine it with, say, T3 for example.

[j_neatherlin]

Maximum tolerable dose of red pepper decreases fat intake independently of spicy sensation in the mouth.

Dietary red pepper suppresses energy intake and modifies macronutrient intake. We have investigated whether a stimulus in the mouth and the sensation of spiciness are necessary for red pepper-induced changes in energy and macronutrient intake in human volunteers. In a preliminary test, sixteen Japanese male volunteers tasted samples of a soup with graded doses of red pepper in order to define a moderate and a maximum tolerable (strong) dose of red pepper. On the day of the experiment, a standardised breakfast was given to the volunteers. At lunchtime, the subjects ingested one of four experimental soups containing either a placebo, a moderate or a strong dose of red pepper plus placebo capsules, or a placebo soup plus capsules delivering a strong dose of red pepper. The rest of the meal was given ad libitum to all subjects. The amount of food, protein and carbohydrate ingested was similar for all conditions. Energy and fat intake were similar after the ingestion of the moderate soup compared with placebo. However, the strong soup significantly lowered fat intake compared with placebo (P=0.043), and ingestion of strong capsules also tended to suppress it (P=0.080). Moreover, energy intake after strong soup and capsules tended to be lower than placebo (P=0.089 and 0.076, respectively). The present results indicate that the maximum tolerable dose is necessary to have a suppressive effect of red pepper on fat intake. The main site of the action of red pepper is not in the mouth.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15182402

[Lok7y]

You want capsaicin delivered locally, which is why a topical delivery method is superior. It renders adipocytes partially insulin resistant in a roughly ~ 1-2 week time frame (desireable); combined with nicotine you can make this storage-deficiency almost full-blown (even better).

Oral ingestion will not give you the same active concentration in the adipostat or adipocyte region you are looking to exert this effect on, which is why localized, targeted topic application should be considered invariably superior for weight loss purposes.

I for one however, have found the pain unworth the benefits. The results are legitimate, unfortunately so is the excruciating topical burn. IMHO, transdermal, local clenbuterol (if its rendered HCl then its very hydrophilic) in Lipoderm, or just clenbuterol base in DMSO is the better topical lipolytic.

[BiggJohn]

You want capsaicin delivered locally, which is why a topical delivery method is superior. It renders adipocytes partially insulin resistant in a roughly ~ 1-2 week time frame (desireable); combined with nicotine you can make this storage-deficiency almost full-blown (even better).

Oral ingestion will not give you the same active concentration in the adipostat or adipocyte region you are looking to exert this effect on, which is why localized, targeted topic application should be considered invariably superior for weight loss purposes.

I for one however, have found the pain unworth the benefits. The results are legitimate, unfortunately so is the excruciating topical burn. IMHO, transdermal, local clenbuterol (if its rendered HCl then its very hydrophilic) in Lipoderm, or just clenbuterol base in DMSO is the better topical lipolytic.

It's really bad the first time, then it's more tolerable. If you get in the right mindset, you associate the pain with progress.

Would localized nicotine be more effective than a systematic approach? The patch is much more expensive than the gum if I remember correctly.

[Lok7y]

Nicotine's pharmacokinetics are most suited for promoting a lean phenotype when it's affecting central dopaminergic activity. The brain is where nicotine (as a stand-alone chemical, apart from cigarettes) shines as a neuroprotective, anoretic, and quasi-sympathomimetic pro-lipolytic agent.

[pu12en12g]

You want capsaicin delivered locally, which is why a topical delivery method is superior. It renders adipocytes partially insulin resistant in a roughly ~ 1-2 week time frame (desireable); combined with nicotine you can make this storage-deficiency almost full-blown (even better).

Oral ingestion will not give you the same active concentration in the adipostat or adipocyte region you are looking to exert this effect on, which is why localized, targeted topic application should be considered invariably superior for weight loss purposes.

I for one however, have found the pain unworth the benefits. The results are legitimate, unfortunately so is the excruciating topical burn. IMHO, transdermal, local clenbuterol (if its rendered HCl then its very hydrophilic) in Lipoderm, or just clenbuterol base in DMSO is the better topical lipolytic.

Feel teh BURNNNN Lok7y ! ! I think it feels pretty cool.

[Lonny]

Feel teh BURNNNN Lok7y ! ! I think it feels pretty cool.

Cool is not what i would call it.

And it gets worse if you apply more than once a day. Just the Cap im talking about.

The smell gets annoying after a while.

[jindo]

So let me get this straight BC. You are saying that the Cap by itself orally or topically will not cause fatloss ?
It is the most powerful herbal thermogenic I have yet experienced. I have never tried anything but oral administration and never attempted to stack it with other herbs for a more pronounced effect because it is that powerful. ie, one of the few herbal supplements you can actually feel working: I first began taking cayenne after reading "Back to Eden" by Jethro Kloss. There are several pages devoted to capsicum (cayenne) that discuss it's panacea like properties for an incredibly wide variety of ailments. Taken internally in small doses on a full stomach with plenty of water one would not tend to feel these affects.
If you really want to feel it working (the stimulating warm sensation can quickly give way to nausea when taken internally, so like any substance it's best to start with conservative doses) try taking it orally upon waking with a glass of water before breakfast. Now I'm no chemist (much of what the Big Cat says goes over my head). I just offer this anecdotally; before I catch heat {pardon the pun} for throwing out a phrase like thermogenic, I have noticed that when working out 'on' cayenne, I tend to sweat much more readily and much more profusely. The reasons are obvious as cayenne increases circulation and is a 'blood-warming' herb. Beyond the increased perspiration I have observed (again when administered in high enough doses) a diuretic/laxative effect: Don't be alarmed by an intense burning sensation (that is part of what I mean when I say you can 'feel' it working). The first time this happened I was concerned (who wouldn't be concerned when it feels like you are literally defecating flames!) But this burning sensation passes by the time you leave the bathroom. For those of us carnivores (yeah I love a good sirloin) who ingest a lot of red meat for protein sources I can't recommend it enough. I have trouble digesting red meat when I'm not taking cayenne; I tend to get constipated which is obviously not a sign that one is losing weight. The expression 'coming out feeling 10lbs lighter' definitely applies. Just sprinkling hot sauce on all your foods is not going to be enough though. I have worked my way to the recommended dosage x5 without experiencing nausea, and it's only in these higher dosages that I can conclusively say it works to speed up your metabolism, raise your resting heart rate, improve circulation, increase perspiration, etc.
Once u get used to the 'asses on fire' effect there are NO negative side effects. I have been taking it for over ten years, so the old wives tale about how 'your going to give yourself an ulcer' is just that... If anything cayenne may actually work to heal ulcers (which are literally holes in your stomach) but that point is for another thread. Sorry this was so long-winded.

[McBurly]

if it caused fat cells in rats to become insulin resistant what does this mean when comes in contact with other cells? such as the cells of your organs? would it cause them to become insulin resistant as well?

[McBurly]

- CAPZASIN-HP (0.1% Capsaicin) is a topical cream and yes it is painful, but it's a "good" kinda pain IMO


Where do you get this from pu12en12g? I would be willing to give this product and just this a try to see if it actually works as I am about to start cutting down here. What about any skin rashes?

[pu12en12g]

Where do you get this from pu12en12g? I would be willing to give this product and just this a try to see if it actually works as I am about to start cutting down here. What about any skin rashes?

I got it from Walgreens :cool:

I didn't get a skin rash, BUT I did get a tingling and burning sensation

[nick912]

Awesome! Schezkoph? Also has experience with CAP

[freakie]

I got it from Walgreens :cool:

I didn't get a skin rash, BUT I did get a tingling and burning sensation
A little slow responding to this one, huh?:)

[Mister_A]

Awesome! Schezkoph? Also has experience with CAP
Yea. I used Cap and Lipo U for about a month. I should have waited. There would have been much better results if I did it now instead of when I did it. Less BF now.

[PDaggers]

Bump to a great old thread

Anyone have any updates on their cap usage?

Right now i am using cap with LU, but soon i will be trying cap alone to see if i get the same results. (on the gut and love handles)

[Mister_A]

Bump to a great old thread

Anyone have any updates on their cap usage?

Right now i am using cap with LU, but soon i will be trying cap alone to see if i get the same results. (on the gut and love handles)
I dont think you would get much results from using cap alone.

[jdiritto]

ok..this thread, confused the sht out ofme.

can someone attempt to stupidfy the info posted?

I get the picture that capsaicin can be taken topical for site specific fat loss (or orally for general fat loss?) but it burns and doesnt work as well with certain supplements ?

as you can see I have no clue what Im talking about..:D if anyone can post or PM their intelligence, as well as any places to buy this stuff I'd appreciate it.

[pu12en12g]

Bump to a great old thread

Anyone have any updates on their cap usage?

Right now i am using cap with LU, but soon i will be trying cap alone to see if i get the same results. (on the gut and love handles)

Holy blast from the past !! :cool:

[PDaggers]

Holy blast from the past !! :cool:

No longer a fan of Cap PU?


You still use it at all? Any new thoughts on the stuff?

[pu12en12g]

No longer a fan of Cap PU?

You still use it at all? Any new thoughts on the stuff?

Still a fan... check the Red Acid ingredients ;)

STRONG, strong stuff...

[pu12en12g]

ok..this thread, confused the sht out ofme.

can someone attempt to stupidfy the info posted?

I get the picture that capsaicin can be taken topical for site specific fat loss (or orally for general fat loss?) but it burns and doesnt work as well with certain supplements ?

as you can see I have no clue what Im talking about..:D if anyone can post or PM their intelligence, as well as any places to buy this stuff I'd appreciate it.

I got mine at walgreens

http://a1061.g.akamai.net/7/1061/5412/home/www.walgreens.com/dbimagecache/201976.jpg

[Dimitar]

I got mine at Walmart ;)

I did not like it that much, if at all. It worked the first two weeks and then it just burned, which wasn't bad at all. I am with Lok7y on this one, LipodermUltra+Clen is much better and the lack of apparent sides [other than tangible vasoconstriction] coupled with visible results on day 2 makes it a much better option. That is, according to my subjective estimate of the benefit/risk ratio.

[Reptile]

Sorry if this has been answered already but I'm too lazy to wait like 10 minutes for the stupid search results to come back.
Anyways I got my bottle of lipoderm-Y with caffiene today and am going to apply it to my sorry ass that's the only place that has some fat (I'm lean on my body overall), do I put the lipoderm first or do I put the cap (I'm going to buy the capzacin HP)?
How much of the cap should I put, one squeeze of the bottle on my two fingers and then apply?
Please let me know.
THanks!

[pu12en12g]

I am with Lok7y on this one, LipodermUltra + Clen is much better

I had to chuckle at this one :D I would certainly hope that Clen is much better.

P.S. Lok7y is da man

[pu12en12g]

going to apply it to my sorry ass that's the only place that has some fat

:eek: You may want to test it out on a small / other bodypart first.

[Dimitar]

I would certainly hope that Clen is much better.


Yeah, much better as in "visibly better after the second application" :eek:

[G.W. Hayduke]

:eek: You may want to test it out on a small / other bodypart first.
If we're talkin about Capzaicin HP, then yes, definitely start slowly.

I like oral cayene pepper (NOW Foods, ultra chaep). 1 gram per day in divided doses is very noticeable and a welcome addition to a non stim fat loss stack.

[Reptile]

:eek: You may want to test it out on a small / other bodypart first.
So you think first apply the cap hp over the butt (small amount ofcourse at first) and then the lipoderm? Should I wait a few minutes after applying the cap or can I put the lipoderm on right after the cap?
Thanks!

[Reptile]

So you think first apply the cap hp over the butt (small amount ofcourse at first) and then the lipoderm? Should I wait a few minutes after applying the cap or can I put the lipoderm on right after the cap?
Thanks!
Bump!

[G.W. Hayduke]

So you think first apply the cap hp over the butt (small amount ofcourse at first) and then the lipoderm? Should I wait a few minutes after applying the cap or can I put the lipoderm on right after the cap?
Thanks!
Apply the cap first (wearing gloves), then the Lipoderm. I don't think you need to wait any specific amount of time. Once you put the Lipo on, give it about 5 min to absorb.

[Reptile]

Apply the cap first (wearing gloves), then the Lipoderm. I don't think you need to wait any specific amount of time. Once you put the Lipo on, give it about 5 min to absorb.
Thanks Aeternitatis! I will try that. I hope I don't screw anything up with the effectiveness of lipoderm by putting on the cap hp.

[Seroph4x]

I'll save my reply for now

[Reptile]

Hi guys,
I was going to try using some capsaicin with my lipoderm I got but unfortunately I couldn't find anything in the local drugstore (Shoppers drug mart) here in Toronto. I was looking for the cream capzacin HP that everyone refers to. Any Canadians know where I can get that or any other product similar to it with capsaicin? Anyone else from the States know of any other creams or can I just use something like red pepper powder?
Thanks!

[jdiritto]

ok, ive just had my (somewhat) first experince with capsaicin ...


it involves my brother, whom recently has herniated (sp?) his lower back working on a car (hes a mechanic)..

he was using a heating pad all night long to sooth the muscles, and applied some capsaicin about an hour ago.

needless to say, no one in my family decided to read anything on the bottle/box... so about 15-20mins after he applied it, he was literally screaming outloud in tears from pain.. and his back turned bright red and was literally hot to touch (it melted ice on contact).

being the Positive guy I am, i read the label, and found out what to do to stop the burning.. i also looked into the possibility of taking hydrocodein (sp?) but found it woul dinteract with his muscle relaxant so skipped this stage. he is now back to normal and not screaming anymore, thankfully..

so, if youve never thought of this, be very alert when using this stuff and being around heat/sun...especially if you have a herniated disc

[LJ57]

I've used that Icey Hot ointment (which has capsaicin in it) and I thought my skin was going to catch on fire. It literally felt like I had been burned with a torch. I had to jump in the shower and scrub it all of with a brush. He might want to try a milder product like Blue Goo, or something similar with emu oil, menthol, and several other ingredients. It works ok but doesn't cause the burning.

[jdiritto]

would capascin + liposolv be feasible?

I may start using the cap since I doubt my brother will be using it any more.. and i just ordered 2 bottles of liposolv yesterday..

liposolv ingredients:
Isopropyl Alcohol, Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO), Water, 18 beta-Glycrrhetinic acid, Theophylline, L-Epinephrine Bitartrate, Benzocaine, Forskolin.

PS; the fat loss part of cap is really confusing, some of the previous posts just made me go "whhhhat" in the dayne cook voice after reading them.

[TourMaline]

Hmm...So after reading through all this...would applying Capsaicin cream topically to say my chest or stomach have a topical fat burning effect?

Or must it be mixed with something..?

[G.W. Hayduke]

Well, the new non-burn way to do this is mixing raspberry ketones in with Lipo-U instead of capzaisin. But yes, the cap will need a carrier, you can't just put it on by itself.

[DriverDan]

I've never done research into topical capsaicin but orally it's a great product. I'm going to be posting a long thread in the science section about thermogenics and metabolism boosters soon so I won't be going into detail here.

Capsaicinoids (both capsaicin and capsiate) have been shown to increase metabolism by 10-20%. I use hot pepper powders in most of my foods and strongly believe it's one of the reasons why my metabolism is so high. I also cap 50-100mg of habanero powder with ~500mg 50% EGCG green tea and take it in the morning when I wake up. It gets the blood pumping, that's for sure.

One of the things I don't understand about the supplement industry is why they keep using cayenne. Habanero is almost 10x as strong, meaning that you can put almost 10% of it in a product instead of cayenne. I don't know the wholesale cost but I know that retail habanero isn't 10x more expensive than cayenne.

[TourMaline]

Its good to hear that chilli products are so effective at boosting your metabolism, I love my chilli (cayenne, birds eye etc) and I look forward to your review on thermogenics.

To Aeternitatis, can raspberry ketones and lipo-u be bought in Australia (I see your location says WA)...Thanks alot guys!

[SupaNatural]

Gotta look into the habanero. I use habanero sauce, but have never seen it in powder form.

[DriverDan]

Gotta look into the habanero. I use habanero sauce, but have never seen it in powder form.
Not all spice shops carry it. I found it locally, $19.25 for 8 oz. You can get it for a bit less online but with shipping it comes out to be the same.

[aoba]

Supposedly raspberry ketones might be more thermongenic and might have less of a burn effect...over at AM Avant is testing Lipo U mixed with RK, not sure about the results yet however.

[DriverDan]

As far as I can tell there has only been one study done on RK (found here (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15862604&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)). Unfortunately the publication charges money for the full text so I have no idea of the exact mechanisms or numerical results. It's quite possible it works through a different mechanism than capsaicinoids (vanilloid receptors).

[DriverDan]

Great news! Yesterday I found out that I can access ScienceDirect full texts for free at school! I only had time to skim through that RK research but noticed they didn't investigate the mechanisms of RK. They did show that a capsaicin inhibitor also inhibited RK which tends to indicate they work through the same or very similar pathways. If that's so then they may compete for the same receptors making the use of both unnecessary. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have the time to pull up a bunch of full texts so I can read more about it.

[TourMaline]

Thats great to hear man! I really look forward to reading what you have to say :).

[aoba]

Might wanna see this patent application for transdermal capaicin. Seems to claim increased IGF-1 levels in the skin. Might be good for tightening the skin while cutting to prevent stretch marks but i haven't seen the studies yet. Here's the patent app.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20060100287.html

[TourMaline]

bump?

[Dr.Dave1]

Sci bump :D

[DriverDan]

Gotta love capsaicin, my favorite underrated supplement :)

[TourMaline]

Hey guys, I just picked up this product:http://www.nationalpharmacies.com.au/db/client/Cl_ProdView.php?prodID=4476 . In your opinion, has it got enough capsaicin to do the job (applying to chest and maybe face if I can take it). And I know how utterly stupid this sounds but could I possibly add some hot sauce or other kitchen ingredient into the cream to increase the capsaicin content if needed? Thanks all :).

[pu12en12g]

Methyl Salicylate 20% w/w
Menthol 5% w/w
Camphor 3.5% w/w
Eucalyptus Oil 3% w/w
Pine Oil Pumilio 1% w/w
Turpentine Oil 1% w/w
Peppermint Oil 0.5% w/w
Cajuput Oil 0.5% w/w
Capsicum Oleoresin 0.15% w/w


Wowzers... don't do it :(

[TourMaline]

oh really :(...Whats wrong with methyl salicylate?

[pu12en12g]

oh really :(...Whats wrong with methyl salicylate?

Simply put... that is a topical painkilling product, not appropriate for topical fatloss IMO.

[TourMaline]

Damn...I just looked at the symptoms for overdose: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002683.htm#Poisonous%20Ingredient

That was the only product containing capsaicin in the 3 pharmacies I checked today...How unfortunate :(.

[pu12en12g]

Damn...I just looked at the symptoms for overdose: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002683.htm#Poisonous%20Ingredient

That was the only product containing capsaicin in the 3 pharmacies I checked today...How unfortunate :(.

Could you get something like this into AUS ?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/cay.html

[Da Main Man]

Could you get something like this into AUS ?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/cay.html

lol.....get stuff into australia....good one ;)

ive seen a Cayenne Pepper 40,000 HU topical lotion in pharmacies but was sold as pain releiver not a fat loss product.

wont name the product or link it, but they also have caps of the following

400mg blend:

Saw Palmetto Extract, Lycopene Extract, Corn Silk Powdered Extract, Echinacea Angustifolia Root, Nettle Leaf, Cranberry Powdered Extract, Parsley Powdered Extract, Cayenne Pepper 40,000 HU, Vitamin E, Curcumin Standardized Extract

should piss that saw palmetto off.....

[TourMaline]

I found 1 online Australian pharmacy selling the capsaicin cream 0.075% for A$35 plus P+H...I had no idea it would be so expensive as the cream I bought was only around A$4.

And yeah Aussie customs are very very particular unfortunately..

Hey pu12en12g, your PM box is full incase you didnt know :).

[pu12en12g]

I found 1 online Australian pharmacy selling the capsaicin cream 0.075% for A$35 plus P+H...I had no idea it would be so expensive as the cream I bought was only around A$4.

And yeah Aussie customs are very very particular unfortunately..

Hey pu12en12g, your PM box is full incase you didnt know :).

I'd look for 0.1% ... and even then, you have to be aware of the other ingredients.

[TourMaline]

I just called to make a special order and they said that the product I bought was the only one with capsaicin in it that they stock- They used to have a product called Zostrix but apparantly it isnt sold here anymore :(. I guess I will just have to add more chilli into my foods.

And also...how stronly do you advise I not use the product I bought? I am starting to get a little desperate now...

[Andrew69]

Could you get something like this into AUS ?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/cay.html

That should be OK to get in, but you should check the Customs website list of restricted imports just to be sure.

[DriverDan]

I just called to make a special order and they said that the product I bought was the only one with capsaicin in it that they stock- They used to have a product called Zostrix but apparantly it isnt sold here anymore :(. I guess I will just have to add more chilli into my foods.

And also...how stronly do you advise I not use the product I bought? I am starting to get a little desperate now...
Capsaicin, just like all other fat loss supplements, are SUPPLEMENTS. If you're "desperate" there's probably another aspect you're overlooking (eg diet or training). Capsaicin may help but it's not a cure all.

[torment12345]

i just bought some of that capzasin-hp, the otc stuff. i thought this stuff was weak as hell but it took about 5 minutes and it burns like holy hell. i'm REALLY glad i spot tried it first before i ruined my afternoon.

[fatesuxaz]

anybody know about mixing this with lipderm for slight gyno?

[G.W. Hayduke]

anybody know about mixing this with lipderm for slight gyno?

3 year bump shows skills... you have promise my son.

anyways... by slight gyno do you merely mean some minor fat deposits around the nips? If so, then yes, it woul dbe good. But I recommend Smolder.

[DriverDan]

Strong bump.

Gyno isn't caused by fat. Talk to a plastic surgeon.

[Adam_Neita]

Try Cap topical then going in the sauna 4 hours later, when you've forgotten you put it on. Oh how deep down in the pores it will go. burn burn burn. . .

. . . I'll never be doing that again.