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BuckWyld
04-30-2004, 08:12 AM
Is anyone else really bothered by the fact that the US government is holding a US citizen arrested on US soil with out a trial and previously without a lawyer, and now not allowing client lawyer privilage? Now, I don't know if he did the things that they claim, which is the entire problem. If the supreame court upholds this it effectively gives the government the right to arrest anyone at anytime for aslong as the want with no evidence and no oversite. that is a scary thing.

pogue
04-30-2004, 08:26 AM
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/crime/terrorists/jose-padilla/

BuckWyld
04-30-2004, 08:32 AM
I never said that Padilla was a good guy, or innocent of the charges (i dont think they have officially charged him with anything) . what I said was that this sets a disturbing president, that could easily be abused. I think everyone deserves a trial and the rest of their constitutonally given rights.

LordNeon
04-30-2004, 10:39 AM
Anyone who truly believes in the freedoms given to us in the Constitution ought to be pissed that the US government has now decided it can hold any US citizen it wants on US soil for as long as they want without access to a lawyer.

Ak47
04-30-2004, 11:05 AM
sounds a lot like nazi-germany to me

matpal
04-30-2004, 11:18 AM
What did he do?

BuckWyld
04-30-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by matpal
What did he do?

he allegedly (i still feel that people are innocent untill proven guilty in a court of law) had ties to Al-Queda and planned to detonate a dirty bomb in the US

Coliones
04-30-2004, 11:48 AM
He should be entitled all rights as an American citizen. Whoever has set the precident not allowing him access to those rights should be removed from office and tried as a traitor to the American people. The situation is already out of hand and just getting worse. Give it another 10 years, we'll all be goosestepping and straight arm saluting.

Jcfreak_02
04-30-2004, 02:03 PM
I think the whole "enemy combatants" charge is completely bogus for American citizens. Charge him with treason or something along those lines in a court of law. As far as the non-citizens being held as enemy combatants... they are POW's of an undeclared war, treat them as so.

Ak47
04-30-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
I think the whole "enemy combatants" charge is completely bogus for American citizens. Charge him with treason or something along those lines in a court of law. As far as the non-citizens being held as enemy combatants... they are POW's of an undeclared war, treat them as so.

I thought Bush declared war last march? Or did they always just call it a "conflict"

BSMNT732
04-30-2004, 03:11 PM
Im very happy he is being held. If they have enough proof that he had plans to detonate a dirty bomb then he loses the right to be back on the streets in a few days. Go ahead an be paranoid and think the Gov will arrest you tomorrow and keep you without a lawyer, but as long as i am safer for it i will glady accept the possibility that it could someday happen to me.

LordNeon
04-30-2004, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by BSMNT732
Im very happy he is being held. If they have enough proof that he had plans to detonate a dirty bomb then he loses the right to be back on the streets in a few days.

The problem being that we don't know if they have ANY proof, because they won't give him a trial or a lawyer.

supergarr
04-30-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by BSMNT732
Im very happy he is being held. If they have enough proof that he had plans to detonate a dirty bomb then he loses the right to be back on the streets in a few days. Go ahead an be paranoid and think the Gov will arrest you tomorrow and keep you without a lawyer, but as long as i am safer for it i will glady accept the possibility that it could someday happen to me.

agreed, they arrested him for a reason. And he isnt exactly someone who can be trusted to chill out while on bail. What are the risks if we just let him go because he hasnt had a speedy trial? will he try to leave the country, or just do something stupid?

pogue
04-30-2004, 06:27 PM
The real question is who do you trust more, your government, or your neighbors and fellow citizens?

Read up on the Gestapo and you will see startiling similarities. Camp Xray is just the beginning of the next Gulags, and it always starts with the unpopular citizens first. Enemies of the state, drug users, dissidents...

irpker
05-01-2004, 03:10 AM
"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

In case you haven't noticed, we're in a war on terror. While you can argue semantics all you want, we're in a war. Declaring people enemy combatants is not unconstitutional.

Also, Bush was not the first president to do this. Lincoln imprisoned thousands of northern residents during the civil war, and FDR placed all Japanese citizens (and seized their property and wealth as well) during WW2.

Reborn79
05-01-2004, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by irpker
"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

In case you haven't noticed, we're in a war on terror. While you can argue semantics all you want, we're in a war. Declaring people enemy combatants is not unconstitutional.

Also, Bush was not the first president to do this. Lincoln imprisoned thousands of northern residents during the civil war, and FDR placed all Japanese citizens (and seized their property and wealth as well) during WW2.

And when we look back on that, we realize that what FDR did was unjust and uncalled for. This is the exact same situation.
If a U.S. citizen is suspected of 'aiding the enemy', then simply try him in a court of law. If they have any evidence, I am sure justice will be metted out. To hold U.S. citizens months and years without even being able to talk to a lawyer is ridiculous and outrageous.