Points of debate : future points of anabolic intervention - let's see how much ....

[Big Cat]

... brainpower we have in here. Below are some points I see as future targets of manipulation in mediating anabolism. Any and all input and thoughts are welcome. I will expand on these subjects further in due time, but as time escapes me, I will just post the subjects so we can get some input rolling :

Interleukin-15 : This particular cytokine has interested me for sometime, with the literature clearly demonstrating not only a distinct role for anabolism, but also a clear synergistic role with IGF's in this regard. IGF's exert most of their effects on sattelite cell proliferation, differentiation and fusion, while IL-15 works primarily on differentiated myofibers. This is however mostly a tease, since very little data is available on the exact manner in which IL-15 causes anabolism or how it could be manipulated.

IGF-II : IGF-II's anabolic potential is considerably larger than that of IGF-I. It works its magic via both the IGF-I receptor and the insulin receptor. In rodents, IGF-II expression is diminished postnatally, but not in humans, making it a legitimate point of manipulation. IGF-II is reduced strongly by the IGF-II/M6P receptor, making this one possible point of intervention. Insulin for instance increases IGF-IIR translocation, so methods of reducing insulin release would work. Only release however, since affecting insulin receptor or downstream targets thereof would reduce anabolic efficacy of IGF-II.

SOCS2 : IGF's and insulin work for the most part through three distinct downstream cascades. IGF-I principally mediates growth via the PI3K/PKB pathway and a little through the Ras/Raf/MEK/ERK pathway, and IL-15 the other way around. The third pathway is the JAK/STAT pathway and is often overlooked in regards to anabolism, its mostly directed at mediating immune signals. This pathway gets a negative feedback signal via SOCS proteins, 3 of them. Deletion of the SOCS1 and SOCS3 proteins, resulted in death, making it an unlikely point of manipulation. However SOCS2 deletion had only one side-effect : 30% increase in growth. That seems like a nice bonus, nay ?

[Spook]

I like IL-15. Posted about it on avant ages ago. Seems interesting.

Youl never get SOCS2 only inhibition without gene therapy.

Why bother with IGF-II. why not go straight to the source and look at MGF (muscle splice IGF variant). See Elzi Volks writings over at avant as this is her area of specialty.

[Big Cat]

Originally posted by Spook
I like IL-15. Posted about it on avant ages ago. Seems interesting.

Yes, me too, it tickles my fancy, but I've noticed a distinct lack of profound research on the matter. Hope that will be resolved in the near future. Its been around for a while. Several people have touched on the subject, but noone has ever gone in depth on it.


Youl never get SOCS2 only inhibition without gene therapy.

You don't know what the future holds. SOCS2 is regulated by more than one upstream effector. Affecting one of the less potent ones could reduce SOCS2 expression, leaving the more anabolic path to do more of its work.


Why bother with IGF-II. why not go straight to the source and look at MGF (muscle splice IGF variant). See Elzi Volks writings over at avant as this is her area of specialty. [/b]

Because I don't see it as a valid point for supplemental manipulation, safe for isolation and injection. Both IGF-I and IGF-II are more potent however. IGF -/- mice with a deleted GHR as well, were only 17% of the size of their healthy peers. Unless MGF fully accounted for the other 17% it doesn't even come close.

[Spook]

my bad. I did not think we were talking about supplemental intervention here.

I though we were talking about pharmagological intervention. I still think injectable MGF would kcik the crap out of IGF-II in terms of muscle hypertropy.

[Big Cat]

MGF is a key player in load-induced hypertrophy, which is something we all exploit to a great extent. However great its potential, is it really going to make that much of a difference for well-trained athletes ?

IGF's have enormous potential that is simply not being used due to lack of understanding of IGF-IGFBP and IGF-IGFR interactions. Depending on how succeptible and what the relative stability of MGF is, it may or may not have more potential.

BTW, I tried looking for MGF on avant, as you suggested and couldn't find anything. Granted, I don't go there often, but using the search function to look for MGF only yielded two, less than interesting threads.

And yes, I'm mostly referring to supplemental intervention. Partly because this is the supp science section, but mostly because you'd be hard-pressed to find affordable hr MGF, IL15 or IGF-II.

[Spook]

just search for posts by Labrat. Thats Elzi's handle over there. Outside of a few posts in some other threads she mostly talks about her research in to IGFs various splice variants. Lots of good stuff.

[x_muscle]

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you can buy Interleukin , igf-II from there