Methyldienolone Structure

[w_llewellyn]

Some interesting information I thought I’d pass along, since I understand there has been a lot of controversy over methyldienolone as of late. The compound being sold by one of the main suppliers in China, and sold in the U.S. as methyldienolone, is structurally not actually methyldienolone (17a-methyl-estra-4,9-dien-3-one,17b-ol). It is a variant of that compound, which would more correctly be named dimethyldiendiol (3,17a-dimethyl-estra-4,9-dien-3,17b-diol). This is a diol form of methyldienolone, with a second methyl group at the 3 position. Anyone testing these materials would want to compare their results to this compound.

This is a considerable difference from MD. For one, it doesn’t possess a 3-one group, which is what I would expect to see of an extremely potent steroid. Furthermore, the 3-methyl group should protect the 3-hydroxyl group from metabolism, so that conversion to actual methyldienolone in the body would not be possible. That doesn’t mean it will do nothing, as diols usually have intrinsic activity. But they also tend to be significantly weaker than their 3-one counterparts.

I am not making any sweeping claims about every methyldienolone-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

But since the supplier is not trying to hide it, it raises the obvious question…

[Baby Huey]

But Bruce ******* says this is the best prohormone, bar none! It must be true! :)

[American Hunk]

I don't understand why the supplier is making dimethyldiendiol when they are asked to make methyldienolone?

[legalgear]

Very interesting Bill. How did you come across this information? Not trying to be antagonistic, just wondering.

Eric

[1fast400]

It doesn't surprise me at all, it just confirms to a degree what many of us already thought. That being said I welcome anyone to test my stuff.

[neckcrank]

Originally posted by ********
It doesn't surprise me at all, it just confirms to a degree what many of us already thought. That being said I welcome anyone to test my stuff.

And would it test as a Dienolone or Diendiol compound?

[Jedi Master]

I LOVE IT WHEN BILL POSTS!!!


Hey if you check this thread again Bill I would just like to say I love your new hydroxytest ester gels, they work ****ing amazingly!!!

Anything else new on the horizon for molecular??

[Sldgehmr]

Originally posted by neckcrank
And would it test as a Dienolone or Diendiol compound?

it will test as the dienolone not the diol.

[StanChampion]

wow. Kill Bruce V2......

With PA's other post about BK's "products" and now this, Bruce has MORE explaining to do..again..hahaha

oh just shoot this Bruce *******

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by StanChampion
wow. Kill Bruce V2......

With PA's other post about BK's "products" and now this, Bruce has MORE explaining to do..again..hahaha

oh just shoot this Bruce *******

Bruce will just dodge this question like all the other ones...

[artica]

It's amazing how crummy people become. I purchased a bottle of m-5aa from legalgear for $49, today I noticed Mike selling it for $26. It's a practice that is driving the supplement industry into a freakin frenzy. I'd love to hear Brock(hahahahaha)strasser explain himself on this one. Im not accusing anyone yet but goes to show the immature battle between one company and the other. What if Bruce is correct? what does that say about W LLe.?

It's come down to a "at your risk" industry. This is sad due to the potential danger associated with this.

Im beginning to think that this whole game is an attempt to rip off the consumer. What happened to creating for the purpose of pride? There is no shame now.

[NO MERCY]

Thanks Bill

[Bufford]

Hey Jedi Master,

I am interested in trying out Moleular new Hydroxytestosterone product as well. How much did you use daily? Did you spread that throughout the day or take it all in one shot? Did you stack it with anything else? How long will you be on, and how long do u plan on taking off?

thanks for the info

[j_neatherlin]

Originally posted by Bufford
Hey Jedi Master,

I am interested in trying out Moleular new Hydroxytestosterone product as well. How much did you use daily? Did you spread that throughout the day or take it all in one shot? Did you stack it with anything else? How long will you be on, and how long do u plan on taking off?

thanks for the info

how about starting a new thread?

[pita]

Originally posted by artica

Im beginning to think that this whole game is an attempt to rip off the consumer. What happened to creating for the purpose of pride? There is no shame now.

It has been for years and years, why stop now.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by w_llewellyn

I am not making any sweeping claims about every methyldienolone-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.



i will have to check out what the molecular weights of these compounds (there would be more than one isomer of this) and see if they are consistent with the results i got on the GC/MS. I will do this tomorrow. My first impresssion is that it makes sense

I would suspect little or no activity from this stuff. Thats my guess, and seems to be the consensus from users as well

I also tested *****s stuff, which is the same as sledge's new batch, or something like that ( i dunno the whole story) but whomevers stuff it was it tested out very well. OR, at least i can say it was one peak that was the correct molecular weight

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by w_llewellyn
Some interesting information I thought I’d pass along, since I understand there has been a lot of controversy over methyldienolone as of late. The compound being sold by one of the main suppliers in China, and sold in the U.S. as methyldienolone, is structurally not actually methyldienolone (17a-methyl-estra-4,9-dien-3-one,17b-ol). It is a variant of that compound, which would more correctly be named dimethyldiendiol (3,17a-dimethyl-estra-4,9-dien-3,17b-diol). This is a diol form of methyldienolone, with a second methyl group at the 3 position. Anyone testing these materials would want to compare their results to this compound.

This is a considerable difference from MD. For one, it doesn’t possess a 3-one group, which is what I would expect to see of an extremely potent steroid. Furthermore, the 3-methyl group should protect the 3-hydroxyl group from metabolism, so that conversion to actual methyldienolone in the body would not be possible. That doesn’t mean it will do nothing, as diols usually have intrinsic activity. But they also tend to be significantly weaker than their 3-one counterparts.

I am not making any sweeping claims about every methyldienolone-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

But since the supplier is not trying to hide it, it raises the obvious question…



correction. the molecular weight of the compound bill (oh, I am sorry......WILLIAM) talks about here does not correspond to what i saw on my GC/MS

unless there is some sort of dehydration reaction or something going on in the instrument

I will have to ponder this tomorrow.

I would not necessarily trust what these manufacturing sources say, whether it be positive or negative. They seem to have their heads up their asses quite far

[LIFT2beHUGE]

bum bu bu buuuummp

[min]

this getting interesting...again!

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
correction. the molecular weight of the compound bill (oh, I am sorry......WILLIAM) talks about here does not correspond to what i saw on my GC/MS

unless there is some sort of dehydration reaction or something going on in the instrument

I will have to ponder this tomorrow.

I would not necessarily trust what these manufacturing sources say, whether it be positive or negative. They seem to have their heads up their asses quite far


I calculate the MW of the dimethyldiol to be 302. If it dehydrates during analysis then we would get a product at 284.

Since there would be two isomers (3alpha methyl, 3beta-ol and 3beta methyl, 3alpha ol), I would expect the possibility of two dehydration products - plus a third.

they would be

the 3alpha methyl 2,4,9 triene derivative, the 3alpha methyl 2,4,9 triene derivative, and a 3-methylene 4,9 diene derivative

these could account for the 3 peaks with MW 284.

HOwever there is a very large peak with 282 in this sample also. I can't explain that

[min]

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
I calculate the MW of the dimethyldiol to be 302. If it dehydrates during analysis then we would get a product at 284.

Since there would be two isomers (3alpha methyl, 3beta-ol and 3beta methyl, 3alpha ol), I would expect the possibility of two dehydration products - plus a third.

they would be

the 3alpha methyl 2,4,9 triene derivative, the 3alpha methyl 2,4,9 triene derivative, and a 3-methylene 4,9 diene derivative

these could account for the 3 peaks with MW 284.

HOwever there is a very large peak with 282 in this sample also. I can't explain that

So what does all this mean in simple words? :D
Could you please help me to understand.Thanks

[morigu]

Originally posted by min
So what does all this mean in simple words? :D
Could you please help me to understand.Thanks I know what u mean.... Ya know I used to think I was a pretty smart guy...then I read posts like these and feel like Jethro Bodine trying to cypher and use my gozzzinttooss .

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by morigu
I know what u mean.... Ya know I used to think I was a pretty smart guy...then I read posts like these and feel like Jethro Bodine trying to cypher and use my gozzzinttooss .


if you are not very well versed in organic chemistry then its not gonna make any sense to you

i posted it for the one person who might possibly be on these boards that will understand and appreciate it

[brucekneller]

SEE BELOW FOR EDIT

[brucekneller]

Originally posted by bruce*******
This is just a hatchet job.

Evidence? BTW, Caleb Stone has a verifiable C of A for our methyldienolone that CLEARLY shows it is 97%+ pure and it is what it is supposed to be.

Odd that Caleb has never once mentioned receiving this information from me.

It's easy to attack another company's supplements with zero proof like this.

I have decided not to post on the boards much anymore, sort of like Bill L usually does, as I am busy trying to get new products developed and sold.

But it seems like the methyls are croaking Bill's new hexyl decanoate (read, expensive, not really any better than the THP ethers or undecanoate ester prosteroids) ester in sales.

So this is not really about purity. It is about profit. And Molecular's lack of it on the hexyl decanoate esters at the expense of methyldienolone sales in particular.

I am sure when we launch our next C-17 CH3 prohormone, which is being kept secret for the time being, and it croaks the sales of the other guys PH's, that they'll attack me again, say it is fake, contains adulterated ingredients, whatever because they are such "bastions of integrity".

You know, I heard a rumor, can't quite remember where, that these new hexyl decanoate esters are BS and just repackaged THP ethers. Boy, if this is true, and I am not saying it is, old Bill L sure pulled the wool over the eyes of all the consumers out there. I wonder if Mike McCandless will test a bottle of 1-testosterone "hexyl decanoate" for purity or if PA will test via GC/MS and make sure at least the dominant chemical entity has the same MW as "hexyl decanoate" ester.

You guys, believe whatever you like. I sent proof positive to Caleb, it was sent to him twice, he was put in touch with my supplier, he was give a copy of the results of the lab analysis conducted by a unversity chemist, an original copy with a red seal.

I am sure he'll come out with some story as to how this C of A he was provided with is not legit or whatever.

Bottom line is the stuff is selling like crazy and if you want to accuse me of something, at least consider that the people making the accusations have a vested financial interest in seeing my product take a nosedive and fail so they can sell more of their products.

This is absolutely true of McCandless who sells methyldienolone and of Llewellyn who's 1-test "hexyl decanoate" esters also are taking a hit because of the methyls.


Methyldienolone is a simple compound to manufacture, the non-alkylated at C-17a version is a high quality, pharmaceutical intermediary sold all over the place in China. Adding a methyl group to it at C-17a is not nearly as complicated as making a 1-ene steroid like 1-testosterone or 1-androstenediol is or even a trione like androstenetrione.

Funny how "the competitions" stuff purports to be ultra pure but by some funny reason, my stuff is crap and it is the "competition" that brings on the accusations.

Again, you guys believe whatever you like, but before you make your choice, think about who is saying what and if perhaps they have a real interest (read: $$$) in trying to knock me off as the major supplier, wholesaler and retailer of methyldienolone in the American market place.

And why is it only methyldienolone from China that is crap?
How about the M1,4AD or M5AA or the 1-testosterone hexyl decanoate? Has anyone bothered to "test" any of these?
No, rather, sock puppets (yes, check the IP addy's) of various supplement companies and my competition here take cheap swipes at the integrity of my product without one iota of evidence to back it up other than "they said so".

First PA says my stuff ain't what it is purported to be. Not like PA has any reason to cause me a serious problem or anything, I mean we wall know PA and I get along so well...

Now Bill L comes out says this without one iota of evidence other than, "he says so" or "he heard a rumor".

I'm not posting much these days and in fact, I am actually going to be in mainland China visiting three chemical factories during the month of May (I wonder how many other supplement companies have been over to China to inspect the factories and check out what's happening over there besides me?).

So flame on guys...but remember, Bill L, PA, Mike McCandless...that karma has a funny way of biting you in the ass when you least expect it.

Don't waste your time PM'ing me, I don't read this board often, if you have something to say to me, send me an e-mail or more than likely, I will never see it guys.


BK

[StanChampion]

Hmm a more "normal" post from BK, IMO. Makes some sense. He should have been prepared for any onslaught and this has probably made him wiser. I would still rather buy from Mike and PA, but who cares.

Why go to China when all this stuff is probably going to banned by that time anyway???

[brucekneller]

Name names, provide a contact number for the person making the accusations or shut the **** up Bill.

This is WAY too convenient and easy. Allow me to illustrate.


Some interesting information I thought I’d pass along a certain company claims that their new miracle ester is the most orally bioavailable prosteroid ester on the market. The compound being sold by one of the main suppliers in China, and sold in the U.S. as 1-testosterone hexyl decanoate, is structurally not actually 1-testosterone hexyl decanoate. It is two variants of that compound, which would more correctly be named 1-testosterone decanoate and 1-testosterone undecanoate.. This is no different then the 1-testosterone undecanoate that has been on the market for over one year now. Anyone testing these materials would want to compare their results to this compound in particular.

This is quite alarming since the MSRP of the hexyl decanoate ester steroids, because they are "new and exciting", are much higher than that of the THP ethers and undecanoate versions of the same prosteroids.

I am not making any sweeping claims about every 1-testosterone hexyl decanoate-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

But since the supplier is not trying to hide it, it raises the obvious question…

Wow, Bill...it's a shame about that. Now there are other companies selling the hexy-decanoate esters so I am not saying your company per se has the "fake stuff" but you know, as a friend, you might want to have your stuff tested or provide everyone with a C of A because you're such an honest man of the highest moral integrity and you'd never pull a fast one and rip off consumers, either knowingly or not, by putting a decanoate or undecanoate ester in your product instead of a hexyl-decanoate version or worse...a THP ether version.

I want to be perfectly clear here, I am not accusing Bill of anything, just using this as a fictitious example to illustrate how easy it is to "make unsubstantiated" claims like this.

But you folks should also realize, that the hexyl-d ester is not an easy or cheap one to make. It's bound to be liquid or waxy and I can't see how you can make this without the end product being a liquid gloppy goo full of unreacted 1-test and "hexyl-decanoic acid", I mean, how do you recrystallize this stuff? Either that, or I'd expect the stuff to be like a serious waxy substance, very difficult if not downright impossible to work with in making a capsule, especially a gel capsule. I'm not saying it is impossible to do...just that I can't imagine it being easy or cheap.

I mean, it really would be a whole lot easier to put an undecanoate ester or THP ether in the final product and call it a day. And the Chinese, and I am not saying they do this deliberately, are famous for substituting one ingredient for another. And since hexyl-decanoate sounds a bit like undecanoate, it is possibly the Chinese interpreted it as "undecanoate" or "decanoate".


Again, not hurling accusations here, just illustrating how easy it is to do so with ZERO tangible, verifiable evidence.

I don't know many people not seeing good result with methyldienolone. It is NOT the same type of results as with M1T. But the other issue everyone seems to forget is if the stuff was a dimethyl...it would me MASSIVELY hepatoxic. And since nobody is really complaining of any significant increase in LFT's of any sort, there should be serious doubt that this is a dimethyl.

And of course, PA will chime in with this 'dehydrates from 302 to 284 when I tested it", well if this is the case, then you're tests aren't worth ****, because when you tested the supposed "real" methyldienolone sample, what prevented that from dehydrating and also losing the methyl and giving you the wrong molecular weight, Pat? How do you explain away when you "allegedly" test my sample, the stuff dehydrates but when you test the "pure" simple the biggest ass kisser friend of yours provides you and is about to sell, it tests perfect, spot on and doesn't dehydrate or is not altered in anyway? Did you test the two samples in different manners, Pat? Wow, that would be...so unlike you (I remember you testing Biotest's 1-test product way back in the day after allegedly chemically altering it and then claiming it contains real testosterone...do you remember that, Pat? I can do a search on the boards for you if you like and post a link).

It's unfortunate that in the supplement industry, it really is caveat emptor for the consumer.

It is what it is.

But when people who have a vested financial interest in their products that compete against the person that they are trash talking, you at least have to wonder if they are being wholly truthful with you.

I provided Caleb with a C of A. End of discussion. If Bill, PA or McCandless want to continue to trash talk my product or the various sock puppets want to come out and say, "I took nine thousand grams of *******'s stuff for ten years and didn't gain one pound" then if you guys want to believe them, go right ahead. I'm no longer willing to sit on the boards and argue with anonymous people just trying to get a rise out of me or a sock puppet shill obviously from a rival company.

So if you have something to say to me, e-mail me or do not expect me to respond to it. I do not check this board more than once per week these days.

See unlike "some" companies, the pending andro-ban, while making me nauseated from a civil liberties standpoint, isn't going to put me out of business as Therachem has 8 products not effected by the ban in various stages of R&D.

We just got in our first batch of 7-keto-DHEA ether (I have a patent pending on this) which will make for an exceptional fat burner. Look for it soon (next couple of months) to hit the market.

Game over guys, again, E-Mail (not PM) me if you want a reply.


BK




Originally posted by w_llewellyn
Some interesting information I thought I’d pass along, since I understand there has been a lot of controversy over methyldienolone as of late. The compound being sold by one of the main suppliers in China, and sold in the U.S. as methyldienolone, is structurally not actually methyldienolone (17a-methyl-estra-4,9-dien-3-one,17b-ol). It is a variant of that compound, which would more correctly be named dimethyldiendiol (3,17a-dimethyl-estra-4,9-dien-3,17b-diol). This is a diol form of methyldienolone, with a second methyl group at the 3 position. Anyone testing these materials would want to compare their results to this compound.

This is a considerable difference from MD. For one, it doesn’t possess a 3-one group, which is what I would expect to see of an extremely potent steroid. Furthermore, the 3-methyl group should protect the 3-hydroxyl group from metabolism, so that conversion to actual methyldienolone in the body would not be possible. That doesn’t mean it will do nothing, as diols usually have intrinsic activity. But they also tend to be significantly weaker than their 3-one counterparts.

I am not making any sweeping claims about every methyldienolone-containing product on the market. Just passing along what I was openly informed about from the main manufacturing source for this material right now.

But since the supplier is not trying to hide it, it raises the obvious question…

[brucekneller]

Where do you think most of the creatine, amino acids and analogs, herbs and what not come from? CHINA!

BK


Originally posted by StanChampion
Hmm a more "normal" post from BK, IMO. Makes some sense. He should have been prepared for any onslaught and this has probably made him wiser. I would still rather buy from Mike and PA, but who cares.

Why go to China when all this stuff is probably going to banned by that time anyway???

[1fast400]

I'm not trashing yours, I just know that mine is pure. I'll posted the lab result on mindandmuscle.net.

You said you weren't producing it anyway right? You called me and said your 4 kilo's got stuck in customs and all this jazz. You weren't going to be making it anymore. That being said, why do you care? Was that a lie to?

Caleb has talked about the assay sent to him. You still don't have a single DOMESTIC lab saying your stuff is legit, period.

[carcinogen]

Originally posted by bruce*******


It's funny that Bruce is still in denial that the batches that were tested were not what was expected. I believe that there was more than his stuff that was tested that came out bad.

No one said md doesn't work.

Caleb did say he got your "C of A". Do a search...

seek professional help

[StanChampion]

Originally posted by bruce*******
Where do you think most of the creatine, amino acids and analogs, herbs and what not come from? CHINA!

BK

I know that, but I was refering to steroidal compounds. I do not think you would be going over to China to see some amino acids or creatine being made. I assume you are going there to visit the facilities that would produce this methyldienolone et al.

[Bufford]

I dont get why these guys are attacking Bruce *******. I understand business is business, but this is retarded now. In Bruces column in MD, he has recommended his readers to ********, Ergopharms 6-OXO, and Moleculars 4-AD-THP as being the best 4_AD product. Obviously Bruce is running a business also developing supps under Therachem and he isnt knocking anyones products jst to make himself more cash.

[brucekneller]

So because we use a lab in another country this means it is not legit? Or that a domestic lab (and I do not consider PA to be a real lab) is?

No, I said I am not MAKING the product anymore, we still have finished product to sell Mike, and I am not making it until my stuff gets released (hopefully before the ban or we run out of finished product to sell).

I do not read Caleb's board anyore. Regardless, he did not so much as even acknowledge in an e-mail to me that he received it, never mind discussed it.

Why do I care even if I was not planning on selling another bottle? Are you that stupid? Or just deliberately being an idiot.
If someone said a product you used to sell is junk, then why not take the next logical step and say, "everything he sells is junk, how can you trust the guy in any of his products, he did it before, who is to say he will not do it again".

This is why I care Mike.

But you already knew this. And I expect you to fully trash my next methyl prosteroid when it comes out for the reason above along with whatever hatchet job you intend to do on me along with your master, PA.

Except this time, I have a little surprise for you should you decide to pull this crap again.


BK



Originally posted by ********
I'm not trashing yours, I just know that mine is pure. I'll posted the lab result on mindandmuscle.net.

You said you weren't producing it anyway right? You called me and said your 4 kilo's got stuck in customs and all this jazz. You weren't going to be making it anymore. That being said, why do you care? Was that a lie to?

Caleb has talked about the assay sent to him. You still don't have a single DOMESTIC lab saying your stuff is legit, period.

[brucekneller]

Yes and no. I am going because one factory is making 7-keto-DHEA ether/diether for us as well as my new 3-OHAT anti-aromatase (as a 3b-ether, BTW). I am also going to some non-hormonal compounds I don't want to discuss right here because I do not yet have my patent applications submitted and I do not want to be ripped off.

But suffice it to say, that while other company's who steal R&D are going to go under because of the ban, we won't at all.
We have SIX non-hormonal, unique supplements we are working on.

BK


Originally posted by StanChampion
I know that, but I was refering to steroidal compounds. I do not think you would be going over to China to see some amino acids or creatine being made. I assume you are going there to visit the facilities that would produce this methyldienolone et al.

[1fast400]

So because we use a lab in another country this means it is not legit? Or that a domestic lab (and I do not consider PA to be a real lab) is?

You are having the lab that made the stuff test it, gee can't imagine where the conflict of interest would be. Everyone knows china COA's are ****.

I do not read Caleb's board anyore. Regardless, he did not so much as even acknowledge in an e-mail to me that he received it, never mind discussed it.

He posted it here

Why do I care even if I was not planning on selling another bottle? Are you that stupid? Or just deliberately being an idiot.
If someone said a product you used to sell is junk, then why not take the next logical step and say, "everything he sells is junk, how can you trust the guy in any of his products, he did it before, who is to say he will not do it again".

This is why I care Mike.

You should care, I'm glad to see that. If you simply posted a domestic lab assay showing your stuff to test out ok I don't think anyone would have an issue.

But you already knew this. And I expect you to fully trash my next methyl prosteroid when it comes out for the reason above along with whatever hatchet job you intend to do on me along with your master, PA.[/qutoe]

I didn't plan on doing a hatchet job. I just handed you the hatchet and watch you kill yourself. I could care less what you do. If you produce ****, it will eventually come out and you will suffer.

[quote]Except this time, I have a little surprise for you should you decide to pull this crap again.

You are always saying such things. You already lost MD 24k worth of advertising, what more do you want?

[brucekneller]

How do you know this? Do you have a non-PA done HPLC plot or graph? I mean, just because the MW comes out to be equal to methyldienolone does not make it methyldienolone. There are dozens of compounds with the same molecular weight. Can you prove the ring saturation is in the correct places, Mike? Or that the methyl is at C-17a and not say...at C-7a? Or do you just have PA's GC/MS to "back you up"...not exactly reliable considering you have had prior direct business dealing with PA, you consistently "suck his cock" on every board you post on, there is no way PA will ever say anything negative about you.

So a PA analysis of your product is worth...well, about a goose egg, Mike.

BTW, for those wondering and "claiming" about a C-3 methyl fxn group, this is NOT likely to happen given the manner that methyldienolone is manufactured. Just got off the phone with the chemist making it (yes, I woke his ass up).

And PA is fully aware of this as is Bill L. Funny how they just don't mention that.

So why would a chemical supplier deviate from the equivalent of a mindless synthesis to some hard to make, far more time consuming and expensive syntethis to make a dimethyl?

The plot...it does thicken.

OK, I am finally out of here, e-mail me if you have a comment or question.


BK







Originally posted by ********
I just know that mine is pure. I'll posted the lab result on mindandmuscle.net.

[brucekneller]

I lost MD 24K in advertising? Gee, why doesn't Blechman fire me then, Mike?

Or maybe I brought in SUBSTANTIALLY more than that in new ads, Mike. Did you ever consider that? Of course not.

You're not advertising in MD anymore? Bummer dude, it is the best mag out there and it will hurt your sales.

I'll have a chat with Steve about this next time I am on the horn with ARP, OK? :-)

Mike, I really am looking forward to meeting you in person one day. I will savor and succor that moment for YEARS to come.

The lab that made it did not test it. A university tested it, Mike. The chemistry department at a university, with LC not GC/MS which is (especially when conducted by a non-accredited company, not a lab, with a serious financial interest at stake or a personal grudge hardly an honest, bonafide/legit test) about as good as it can get. A non-profit, non-affiliate university. Mike knows I could not get an HPLC test on it stateside as the only standard on the planet for methyldienolone in the hands of a lab that will test it is in China. But see, Mike fails to mention this. He says he has a test, an assay on his stuff. A "PA, GC/MS" assay, Mike? An assay that give MW only? Wow, how reliable and accurate. Mike, why don't you have it sent to China and retested over there like we did via HPLC? Even you would admit HPLC is more reliable an indicator than GC/MS. Anyone who likes is free to send a bottle of our stuff to any non-PA lab to have it tested.
Go ahead and see if someone at SRCS or RTP will test it with GC/MS and see what MW comes out to. I have zero to hide here.

So how come nobody else other than you/PA and Bill L (read - my competition) are claiming my stuff is crap?

My what a coincidence.


BK


Originally posted by ********
You are having the lab that made the stuff test it, gee can't imagine where the conflict of interest would be. Everyone knows china COA's are ****.



He posted it here



You should care, I'm glad to see that. If you simply posted a domestic lab assay showing your stuff to test out ok I don't think anyone would have an issue.



You are always saying such things. You already lost MD 24k worth of advertising, what more do you want?

[brucekneller]

See everyone, this is a classic BS argument. Because no matter how many flaming hoops I go through, Mike and PA will have some "seemingly credible response".

Let's say that some lab in the states had a standard so I could run HPLC. And it came back mint, 97%+ spot on. Why then Mike or PA just claim that I sent in a different sample from the material I used to make my product right?

You can't run a legit lab assay on your own product, by the very definition, you have a vest interest in the results. Only an independent 3rd party who has ZERO financial benefit or personal benefit whatsoever can truly conduct a fair and correct lab analysis.

There simply is no other way around it. Mike and PA know this too (which is why Mike's lab assay on his methyldienolone is worth crap...you think he'd tell you if it came out like garbage? Oh he did, with that 1kg that was 60% pure...a marketing strategy to set you up so the other 10kg he will sell will "look legit" - I too, admit the first kg we bought was junk, 60% and we NEVER USED IT and I even offered to sell it to anyone who wanted it with the understanding it was only 60% pure).

This is why I am not going to waste my time with this lab assay BS. There is no way I will ever be able to satisfy Mike, this is 100% a guerilla business tactic on his end and nothing more.

Same thing he has done to other companies, this is just the way Mike chooses to do business.

While I am honest in my assessments of products in Muscular Development, despite a personal dislike for PA and an serious hatred for Mike, they pull this garbage.

No assay, test, whatever, will ever satisfy them, doesn't matter where it was conducted or who conducted it or by what method.

I'll either be accused of sending in a spiked bottle or that the material I am using is for the test is not from the same batches that went into the bottle, anything Mike can do to create doubt, or PA can do to create doubt.

I am told this is litigatable. I have elected not to pursue this course because I think it will set a bad precendent for the industry and in the end, it will only be the attorneys who win.

But the bottom line is, this is an exercise in futility on my end. Nothing will be ever satisfy these guys because the complaint and allegations are business related and not truth related.

So why bother going around and around with these folks?
Answer - I'm not going to bother. Think what you like, I have have been fair and honest with my column in Muscular Development with all the products that these guys sell. They have zero proof my product is anything but the best methyldienolone product on the market other than the word of PA and McCandless (and now Llewellyn - boy hexyl-decanoate ester product sales must be really slow for Bill to come out here and pull this ****).

Again, you want an response from me, e-mail me please.


And Mike, karma, it has a funny way of biting folks smack dab in the ass.

Your turn will come soon enough, McCandless.


BK

[1fast400]

So a PA analysis of your product is worth...well, about a goose egg, Mike.

Which is why I posted another on avant.

I lost MD 24K in advertising? Gee, why doesn't Blechman fire me then, Mike?

I dunno, that isn't my call. You threaten my life and said you would rape my girlfriend. Sorry if I don't support mags that employ someone who does this type of thing.

Mike, I really am looking forward to meeting you in person one day. I will savor and succor that moment for YEARS to come.

Why? You going to kick my ass? Sure goahead, I have copies of everything you've ever said in regard to me, it would be quite funny to see how it turns out in the end. You punch me in the face, I ruin your life, sounds fair.

Let's say that some lab in the states had a standard so I could run HPLC. And it came back mint, 97%+ spot on. Why then Mike or PA just claim that I sent in a different sample from the material I used to make my product right?[/qutoe]

If it could be proven there was no chain of custody issue, I would do a public apology. I've stated this to you numerous times.

[quote]You can't run a legit lab assay on your own product, by the very definition, you have a vest interest in the results. Only an independent 3rd party who has ZERO financial benefit or personal benefit whatsoever can truly conduct a fair and correct lab analysis.

I agree, a bottle could be ordered from Europa or Boss I'm sure.

There simply is no other way around it. Mike and PA know this too (which is why Mike's lab assay on his methyldienolone is worth crap...you think he'd tell you if it came out like garbage? Oh he did, with that 1kg that was 60% pure...a marketing strategy to set you up so the other 10kg he will sell will "look legit" - I too, admit the first kg we bought was junk, 60% and we NEVER USED IT and I even offered to sell it to anyone who wanted it with the understanding it was only 60% pure).

Here comes bruce #2, the one where you make up stuff. You said your first batch was 60%, not me. I have copies of all this if you life, just got mindandmuscle.net

This is why I am not going to waste my time with this lab assay BS. There is no way I will ever be able to satisfy Mike, this is 100% a guerilla business tactic on his end and nothing more.

I told you that I would pay for the testing and the standard, what more do you want?


Answer - I'm not going to bother.

I think you've ended every post of yours with this comment.

They have zero proof my product is anything but the best methyldienolone product on the market other than the word of PA and McCandless (and now Llewellyn - boy hexyl-decanoate ester product sales must be really slow for Bill to come out here and pull this ****).

You are the one that can't provide an assay and you sent the sample to PA which came out bad. You have zero proof your product contains anything. Why shoul it be our job to prove your product has nothing. It should be the other way around.


I'll leave this topic alone if you will. Let the consumers decide.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by bruce*******
How do you know this? Do you have a non-PA done HPLC plot or graph? I mean, just because the MW comes out to be equal to methyldienolone does not make it methyldienolone. There are dozens of compounds with the same molecular weight. Can you prove the ring saturation is in the correct places, Mike? Or that the methyl is at C-17a and not say...at C-7a? Or do you just have PA's GC/MS to "back you up"...not exactly reliable considering you have had prior direct business dealing with PA, you consistently "suck his cock" on every board you post on, there is no way PA will ever say anything negative about you.

So a PA analysis of your product is worth...well, about a goose egg, Mike.

BTW, for those wondering and "claiming" about a C-3 methyl fxn group, this is NOT likely to happen given the manner that methyldienolone is manufactured. Just got off the phone with the chemist making it (yes, I woke his ass up).

And PA is fully aware of this as is Bill L. Funny how they just don't mention that.

So why would a chemical supplier deviate from the equivalent of a mindless synthesis to some hard to make, far more time consuming and expensive syntethis to make a dimethyl?


BK


wrong

the dimethyl would be alot easier to make than methyldienolone

for both you start with the same material. 4,6-estradiene3,17-dione

for methyldienolone you would need to protect the 3-keto group with something like a ketal, and then do a grignard reaction, followed by hydrolysis (deprotection)

for the dimethyldienedione you would simply do the grignard on the unprotected starting material

[morigu]

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
if you are not very well versed in organic chemistry then its not gonna make any sense to you

i posted it for the one person who might possibly be on these boards that will understand and appreciate it Just messing around PA ,there is a lot I don't understand but I actually find these very interesting...and appreciate them a lot so please post away.

[brucekneller]

This is not the starting material and you know it.

Round and round we go again...

Enjoy yourself PA.

BK


Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
wrong

the dimethyl would be alot easier to make than methyldienolone

for both you start with the same material. 4,6-estradiene3,17-dione

for methyldienolone you would need to protect the 3-keto group with something like a ketal, and then do a grignard reaction, followed by hydrolysis (deprotection)

for the dimethyldienedione you would simply do the grignard on the unprotected starting material

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by bruce*******
This is not the starting material and you know it.

Round and round we go again...

Enjoy yourself PA.

BK

I think its funny that you just dodge questions.

And Bruce, why is gaspari/kilosports price gouging everyone on your MD, when Mike has it on sale for 24 bucks??

I bet you and Rich Gaspari are laughing all the way to the bank.

[|2e|3eL]

Originally posted by artica
It's amazing how crummy people become. I purchased a bottle of m-5aa from legalgear for $49, today I noticed Mike selling it for $26. It's a practice that is driving the supplement industry into a freakin frenzy. I'd love to hear Brock(hahahahaha)strasser explain himself on this one. Im not accusing anyone yet but goes to show the immature battle between one company and the other. What if Bruce is correct? what does that say about W LLe.?

It's come down to a "at your risk" industry. This is sad due to the potential danger associated with this.

Im beginning to think that this whole game is an attempt to rip off the consumer. What happened to creating for the purpose of pride? There is no shame now.

I am not pointing fingers but this is one of many reasons that PH's will be banned. Stiff competition between the major companies has caused some false advertising in ALL supplements. This teamed with many other circumstances is what has made the ban inevitable.

[neckcrank]

Originally posted by Jedi Master
I think its funny that you just dodge questions.

And Bruce, why is gaspari/kilosports price gouging everyone on your MD, when Mike has it on sale for 24 bucks??

I bet you and Rich Gaspari are laughing all the way to the bank.

Its $25.99, but yes they are definately making "bank" on Bruce's product.

Kudo's to Mike and Sldg.

[brucekneller]

LMAO, "if" I decided beat the ****ing tar out of you little worm boy, it would be simple A&B which is a misdemeanor. And you'd have a nice time trying to prosecute me interstate, Mike.
And if you think this, "I'll tell my lawyer you said you would beat me up" **** would stop me from using your face as a speed bag, you really don't know me as well as you think you do, Mike.

And I'd be sure to let everyone know what a weasel you are if you do go whining on "oh Mr. Attorney, that big bad ******* guy threatened to smack my scrawny little ass around like a rag doll".

Why don't you be a man and put on a set a gloves, Mike?
You know, let's settle this feud between us in the ring, with some honor, Mike. Just so "nobody" gets hurt, we can even use those big, 14 or 16 oz gloves, OK?

You're such a pussy, Mike. You don't even work out, you look like a skinny marathon runner from Ethiopia, I'll give PA credit, at least he has a great build, but you're what? 130 pounds soaking wet? When was the last time you even picked up a dumbell or barbell and trained? Better still, when was the last time you actually used ANY of the supplements you sell, Mike?

Do you use the generic M1T you sell Mike? If not, why should any of your customers use it?

Same for methyldienolone or any and all the PH's you sell.

I actually use my products, Mike. Yet another difference between you and I. You're 100% in it for the bucks. You don't even use any or many of the products you sell.

Hey Mike, truth be known, I wouldn't waste my time hitting you, that would be like picking on a handicapped or retarded person. It would be like hitting a woman. Crap, I bet your girlfriend has more LBM than you do. I just like the idea that you fear me so much you went running to your attorney with print outs of all this **** about how I am going to beat the tar out of you.

What's next Ms. McCandless, when do I get the restraining order?

Maybe I'll just say "boo" when I see you and watch you scream like an old woman in sheer terror and run away as fast as you can?

Your life already is ruined. When Ulter gets through with you because of the BS R-ALA thing you pulled, there won't be much left of you financially. Is it Chapter 7 or 13 you will be filing for, Mike?

Anyone see a pattern emerging here? Mike trashes Ulter's R-ALA product and wait a minute...Mike sells an R-ALA product!!! Wow, what a coincidence!!!

Hey Mike, when Ulter is done with you, give me a holler. I'll send you some free protein powder and MRP's, the way I figure it, you are so small now and since Ulter will ultimately own your company and force you into bankruptcy over the BS test you had done on his R-ALA, the least i can do is send you something to eat. I wouldn't want you to get any smaller than you are now...man...a slight breeze would blow your ass over!!!

Mike, I have proven my product real and legit, I have a C of A done by an independent lab in China, a university lab with a standard unaffiliated with the factory that makes the stuff. You know very well there is no domestic lab that can do an HPLC plot on this. Nice try though. And GC/MS? Again, dozens of steroids and hundreds of compounds have the same MW as methyldienolone.

Mike, I assume you have C of A's, independent of course, for EACH and EVERY product you sell at your web site, irrespective of whether you manufactured it or not, correct?

I mean, it's not like YOU would ever sell something without first testing it, even if YOU did not personally manufacture it so if someone were to place an order with you and ask for a C of A you would have no issues sending a copy of such along with the order, right? I mean, just because YOU don't use your products doesn't mean you care so little for your customers that you don't have verifiable, non-PA, independent analyses for EACH and EVERYONE of them, does it?

I'm just, you know, holding you to the same ethical standard you demand of me. We wouldn't want to give people the appearence of you getting a "free pass" on the ethics issue now would we, Mike?

And Mike, how am I supposed to sell you something (a standard) that I do not have here in the United States and is the property of a university in China? And why is it my problem to get this for you? Get it yourself! You know who has it, where the stuff was tested, you have a phone, I am sure you have long distance service, call them up and ask them to buy one. My guess is that they would have no problem selling you one. In fact, I am sure they'd love nothing more than to sell you one, Mike, the Chinese love to sell everything and anything to us Americans, you know that!

You're a poseur. Consumers may like you because you're cheap. But cheap does not mean good, moral or ethical and yeah, you and your little website cut out all the middlemen and wholesalers for people who want to order direct. Hey man, I have no problems with that. I have zero issues with you selling stuff on the cheap, you're entitled to make a living. Just like everyone else. But I do have a serious issue with your track record of trashing people's stuff then carbon-copying it and selling it for less money. That is slimey. You're a scumbag Mike. And yeah, the people who like you because you have cheap prods, that's cool. But deep down inside Mike, they still know you have the morals of a crackhead hooker.

You have a habit of pissing a lot of people off in the industry, don't you little man?

First, you ****ed with Bill L on some of his patent pending stuff, refusing to buy from Bill so you made a good friend of Bill there. Remember that episode? All the while telling everyone how you respect patents because you buy all LPJ made stuff, you're such a righteous dude, right Mike?

Yeah, you may have won your little lawsuit with the protein thing, but I tend to thing it was more of you having a better attorney then they did. The sun shines on a dog's ass everyone in awhile, Mike.

Next you attack Ulter and his R-ALA (and he has you by the nuts on this one). Boy did you vck yourself there, didn't you? :-)

Then you blast methylated prosteroids, essentially labelling them as evil or illegal...and wait for others to stick their necks out to sell them first then being a complete and total hypocrite, you now carry more varieties of methylated prosteroids than anyone outside of VPX.


And then you decide to sell $10/bottle M1T because you don't happen to "approve" of the price Eric/LG sells their stuff for. Mike, how come I don't see $10 per bottle 1-AD or generic 6-OXO at your website? Oh wait, I forgot, those products are PA's and you have your mouth firmly locked around PA's cock and would never do a cheap-o knock off of an Ergo product, right?

Let's not forget that you charge MORE for a raw material product that costs you LESS than M1T, that being M1,4AD. You just decided to seel M1T for $10 because you wanted to "punish" Eric and Leonard from LG, right?

Why not sell your methyldienolone knock off for $10, Mike. We both know it costs you LESS than M1T to make? How come this is $25 and not $10? Getting greedy are you Mike.

FWIW, I sell methyldienolone to wholesalers and distributors ONLY, I do not retail it, and I do not set the retail price and I sell it to these folks for FAR LESS than $25 per bottle.

So these idiots thinking I am "laughing all the way to the bank" really have no clue how the industry works. I can't control the retail prices that people charge, I am not a retailer.

Salty or bitter? Or both? I ask because I am sure Mike knows for sure what PA's semen tastes like. Now I know why PA got rid of Kelsey...Mike McCandless must give him better head more often then Kelsey did. *slap myself in the forehead*...makes sense now!

I mean, for real, why no generic 6-OXO caps, Mike?
The stuff is cheap as dirt in China. Why do you not have generic 6-OXO at *****RETARDED?


Then you take a swipe at me with this crap about my methyldienolone being something "other" than methyldienolone.

Then you collect posts in which I say I would like to beat your ****ing face in with a baseball bat (well, that may not be the exact wording but you get the idea...I don't much care for Mike and if he took a long walk off a short pier I would not exactly shed many tears) and mumble about filing charges against me if I beat you up.

Then you try very hard to get me fired from the magazine I write for (didn't quite work out the way ya planned, Mike? Surprise, Mike!).

Dude, you just practice slimey, unethical business. When you remove all the BS and diatribe, you get what it really is, guerrilla, slimey business tactics.

Sell all the $25 bottle generic knock off product of methyldienolone that you like or can Mike.

But realize this, if there is EVER any way I can pay you back for the annoyance you caused me over this, please remember, I surely will pay you back. I don't need to resort to beating the tar out of you (as much as this would surely provide me with basic and immediate gratification), I'll do it legally.

Now, when will you post all the C of A's for EVERY product in your store, for every lot# and batch#? I mean, you know, fair is fair Mike. I sell one product at the moment, I sent Caleb a copy of the lab assay, YOU chose not to believe it (then again, you would choose not to believe any assay your hero, idol and boyfriend, PA does not personally conduct).

Well Mike? Time is a wasting, get to posting those assays and lab results, Mike.

Or are you really just a poseur like I am writing here?

We'll see, time will be the true test of this, Mike.

BK





Originally posted by ********



Why? You going to kick my ass? Sure goahead, I have copies of everything you've ever said in regard to me. You punch me in the face, I ruin your life, sounds fair.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by bruce*******
This is not the starting material and you know it.

Round and round we go again...

Enjoy yourself PA.

BK


"and I know it?"

whatever Bruce

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by bruce*******

But you folks should also realize, that the hexyl-d ester is not an easy or cheap one to make. It's bound to be liquid or waxy and I can't see how you can make this without the end product being a liquid gloppy goo full of unreacted 1-test and "hexyl-decanoic acid", I mean, how do you recrystallize this stuff? Either that, or I'd expect the stuff to be like a serious waxy substance, very difficult if not downright impossible to work with in making a capsule, especially a gel capsule. I'm not saying it is impossible to do...just that I can't imagine it being easy or cheap.







its really not difficult at all. you make the ester and you get rid of any residual acid by washing the solvent extracted reaction mixture with a solution of a weak base like sodium carbonate.

Then after stripping off the solvent you will purify the crude ester by fractional distillation. Duh. Simple freaking organic synthesis

And gee, its so hard to work with and put into a gel cap isn't it. Just like it is with stuff like flax oil, and fish oil and other oils. I mean, you never see those in gel caps do you

Duh

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by bruce*******

I don't know many people not seeing good result with methyldienolone. It is NOT the same type of results as with M1T. But the other issue everyone seems to forget is if the stuff was a dimethyl...it would me MASSIVELY hepatoxic. And since nobody is really complaining of any significant increase in LFT's of any sort, there should be serious doubt that this is a dimethyl.




you don't know what you are talking about again

the methyl at C17alpha or an androgen is what is associated with hepatotoxicity. Just cuz there is another methyl somewhere else on the molecule does not indicate anything necessarily.

Certainly there is no evidence that a methyl at C3 would have any toxic consequences. To the contrary, since toxicity in the liver is associated with androgenic activity, you would expect that a C3 methyl would make it less toxic - due to the fact that it prevents oxidation of the steroid to the active 3 keto form

[Number 5]

bruce, you do most of the damage yourself with statements like these - you sound like a madman - and presumably are somewhat cracy since you post this crap in public forums.

if people were getting great results from all m-dien products then this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue.

-5

Originally posted by bruce*******
LMAO, "if" I decided beat the ****ing tar out of you little worm boy, it would be simple A&B which is a misdemeanor. And you'd have a nice time trying to prosecute me interstate, Mike.
And if you think this, "I'll tell my lawyer you said you would beat me up" **** would stop me from using your face as a speed bag, you really don't know me as well as you think you do, Mike.

And I'd be sure to let everyone know what a weasel you are if you do go whining on "oh Mr. Attorney, that big bad ******* guy threatened to smack my scrawny little ass around like a rag doll".

Why don't you be a man and put on a set a gloves, Mike?
You know, let's settle this feud between us in the ring, with some honor, Mike. Just so "nobody" gets hurt, we can even use those big, 14 or 16 oz gloves, OK?

You're such a pussy, Mike. You don't even work out, you look like a skinny marathon runner from Ethiopia, I'll give PA credit, at least he has a great build, but you're what? 130 pounds soaking wet? When was the last time you even picked up a dumbell or barbell and trained? Better still, when was the last time you actually used ANY of the supplements you sell, Mike?

Do you use the generic M1T you sell Mike? If not, why should any of your customers use it?

Same for methyldienolone or any and all the PH's you sell.

I actually use my products, Mike. Yet another difference between you and I. You're 100% in it for the bucks. You don't even use any or many of the products you sell.

Hey Mike, truth be known, I wouldn't waste my time hitting you, that would be like picking on a handicapped or retarded person. It would be like hitting a woman. Crap, I bet your girlfriend has more LBM than you do. I just like the idea that you fear me so much you went running to your attorney with print outs of all this **** about how I am going to beat the tar out of you.

What's next Ms. McCandless, when do I get the restraining order?

Maybe I'll just say "boo" when I see you and watch you scream like an old woman in sheer terror and run away as fast as you can?

Your life already is ruined. When Ulter gets through with you because of the BS R-ALA thing you pulled, there won't be much left of you financially. Is it Chapter 7 or 13 you will be filing for, Mike?

Anyone see a pattern emerging here? Mike trashes Ulter's R-ALA product and wait a minute...Mike sells an R-ALA product!!! Wow, what a coincidence!!!

Hey Mike, when Ulter is done with you, give me a holler. I'll send you some free protein powder and MRP's, the way I figure it, you are so small now and since Ulter will ultimately own your company and force you into bankruptcy over the BS test you had done on his R-ALA, the least i can do is send you something to eat. I wouldn't want you to get any smaller than you are now...man...a slight breeze would blow your ass over!!!

BK

[neckcrank]

I cannot think of one person who has gotten decent results from using Methyl-D (actually there may be one or two puppets out there).

I sure as hell hope that Mike and Sldg's new batch is the real deal.

If not then Bruce won't be the only "laughing stock" on our internet forums.

BTW, I would love to see Bruce an Mike get it on, gloves, no gloves, brass knuckles or whatever.

I got my money on BK, crazy mother****er.


NC

[Work]

All I can say was that was a classic ass reaming Bruce did on Mike. If ass reaming was a class, that last post would be the textbook.

[1fast400]

Mike, how come I don't see $10 per bottle 1-AD or generic 6-OXO at your website? Oh wait, I forgot, those products are PA's and you have your mouth firmly locked around PA's cock and would never do a cheap-o knock off of an Ergo product, right?

Let's not forget that you charge MORE for a raw material product that costs you LESS than M1T, that being M1,4AD. You just decided to seel M1T for $10 because you wanted to "punish" Eric and Leonard from LG, right?

No, you are just a stupid bastard. The raw material for 1-AD would make the cost over $10 for a 6g bottle. M1T is 300mg per bottle. For someone so smart you are so dumb. Oh the price for 6-oxo is even higher. Besides people know it as 6-oxo, which is a trademarked name, nobody buys the other stuff.

Why not sell your methyldienolone knock off for $10, Mike. We both know it costs you LESS than M1T to make? How come this is $25 and not $10? Getting greedy are you Mike.

I love when someone sells something at triple the price and claims I'm greedy. It is under designersupplements name, not mine. Instead of stealing the compound from him like you did, I'm paying a per bottle price for it. I know, I'm such a bastard!

FWIW, I sell methyldienolone to wholesalers and distributors ONLY, I do not retail it, and I do not set the retail price and I sell it to these folks for FAR LESS than $25 per bottle.

I know what you sold it for. So this means you only sold it to crooks then?

I mean, for real, why no generic 6-OXO caps, Mike?
The stuff is cheap as dirt in China. Why do you not have generic 6-OXO at *****RETARDED?

You must have scored about 200 on the math section of the SAT.

Then you collect posts in which I say I would like to beat your ****ing face in with a baseball bat (well, that may not be the exact wording but you get the idea...I don't much care for Mike and if he took a long walk off a short pier I would not exactly shed many tears) and mumble about filing charges against me if I beat you up.

Yawn, your childish babble is getting old. I just pointed out you had made public threats. If you made good on them, it wouldn't be a wise move for you. You seem to have a problem remembering what you post on boards, I was just reminding you.

Then you try very hard to get me fired from the magazine I write for (didn't quite work out the way ya planned, Mike? Surprise, Mike!).

I just refuse to support a mag that hires a douche like you. How petty that someone your age makes all these personal threats. You got pretty graphic in one instance. You are a wack job, we all know it.

Sell all the $25 bottle generic knock off product of methyldienolone that you like or can Mike.

You mean from the guy that told YOU about the compound?


I'm done with you, go in the corner and eat your happy meal

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by Work
All I can say was that was a classic ass reaming Bruce did on Mike. If ass reaming was a class, that last post would be the textbook.


yeah, whoopee. real impressive

I think selling the same product at a fraction of the cost (while actually putting real stuff in the bottle) beats cyber put-downs any day of the week

unless you are 15 freakin years old

[mrfumetsu]

does anyone actually like bruce ******* here?

[brucekneller]

Hey Mike, how much profit do you make on a bottle of methyldienolone at $25 a bottle. I bet it is FAR more than I make on a bottle that I sell at wholesale/distributor level, FAR more.

Funny how everyone says I (and Gaspari) must be laughing all the way to the bank when I make less per bottle than you do.
MUCH less!!!

Mike, you like to make it sound so...simple. That's cuz you're a simpleton.

But you and I both know I sell it to a distributor who sells it to a retailer or another distributor who them sells it to a retailer.

So those people, they have to make a living too, Mike.

If you tried to "brand" the company name and anyone other than you and Matt tried to sell it, me think the price would double instantly and you'd be MSRP'ing it for $50-$70 a whack. Or at least the resellers would be.


Idea I stole. Why don't you ask Cahill who gave him this idea, Mike? True, Matt was the 1st person to import a 5g sample at the time but he and I had MANY conversations about 17a-methyl analogs of stuff out there already. And he will readily tell you that I mentioned "17a-methylating" that PharmagenX "trenbolone analog". Same as I mentioned slightly changing androisoxazole and same as I mentioned to Matt he should consider protecting his intellectual property and provided him with my patent attorney's contact info.

See, you know what your problem is (aside from being a conniving, back stabbling, sniveling, husk of a man), Mike?
Your problem is you thought I would care or freak out that you are selling the stuff for $25 a bottle like people did with M1T. I don't care if you sell it for $25 per bottle, Mike.

However, I do care when you attack the integrity of the product itself, Mike. You didn't need to pull an Ulter job on me like you did.
That puts you in a class all by yourself. I have detested PA for many years, over time, this revulsion has waxed and waned but for the most part, I couldn't care less about PA (as evidenced by my lack of comments about him in this an other posts in this thread). You however...what is that saying? Oh yeah, you can't polish a turd? Yeah, you are a real piece of ****. And despite selling M1T at $10 a bottle and being a "hero" to a few hundred people on the internet, if they knew the "real Mike McCandless" I all but guarantee nobody would ever buy jack squat from you again.

If you can't sell a generic 1-AD/6-OXO/phenibut for MUCH less than you sell brand name, Ergopharm 1-AD6-OXO/phenibut for you are either being ripped off by the Chinese, getting special treatment for sucking PA's schlong or lying to everyone here.

I'd be happy to sell you several kg of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione for around $1200/kg, Mike. Thats $1.20 per gram, Mike. There are 6g of the chemical in a bottle of 6-OXO. With packaging and labelling, this means it cost about or under $9 per bottle. You mean to tell me you can do a knock off of 6-OXO and be happy selling it for $17.99 and essentially doubling you money while being a hero to all the guys that read this board. The MSRP on 6-OXO is $54.99 and yeah, it is discounted to around the low thirtees. But even if you were "greedy" and sold it for $19.99 it would still be a deal for the average consumer. So why have you not knocked off 6-OXO? Surely there is a demand for it, Mike?
And you don't even want me to do the math out for phenibut (oh wait, I can't honestly say this is true about making a generic Gabatropin as I just realized PA puts some other herb in there also and I do not know how much it costs).

Why don't you just admit it, Mike...you pulled yet another hatchet job on me like you are famous for with Ulter and Protein Factory and admit that while you respect PA's patents, you really enjoyed ****ing Bill L on the **** he sells despite him telling you, in public, that he had patents pending on the stuff. Admit it, you get off on it, you're a weasel.

All I am telling you is that karma has a way of catching up with people. So watch your back, Ace.

BK

[brucekneller]

Ujtil someone does this to a Proviant/Ergopharm/Protype brand product then that person is unoriginal, a rip off artist making money off all of your hard work and R&D time, a true jerk who is interfering with your ability to make a lving and come up with all new and cool stuff.

See, Pat, it's all a big ****ing joke until it happens to you, right?
If Mike was making egregious claims about the quality of your 6-OXO and then went and cloned it and sold it for $19.99 a bottle from his rip off of the Avant website, you'd have ZERO issues with this? How about if someone did this with Gabatropin?

My guess is you would change your tune amazingly fast, Pat.

Call it intuition from knowing you for over what? A decade?

BK


Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
yeah, whoopee. real impressive

I think selling the same product at a fraction of the cost (while actually putting real stuff in the bottle) beats cyber put-downs any day of the week

unless you are 15 freakin years old

[brucekneller]

OK I will restate..."and end up with a nice, white, fluffy crystalline powder".

If it is "so easy" why is the raw material cost for this ester so much more than that of say...the THP ether, Pat?
Or even the undecanoate ester, same process to make the undecanoate ester as it is to make the "hexyl decanoate" ester, right Pat? Just one uses "undecanoic acid" and the other uses "hexyl decanoic acid", right Pat?

Why the whopping price disparity?




Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
its really not difficult at all. you make the ester and you get rid of any residual acid by washing the solvent extracted reaction mixture with a solution of a weak base like sodium carbonate.

Then after stripping off the solvent you will purify the crude ester by fractional distillation. Duh. Simple freaking organic synthesis

And gee, its so hard to work with and put into a gel cap isn't it. Just like it is with stuff like flax oil, and fish oil and other oils. I mean, you never see those in gel caps do you

Duh

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by ********


I'm done with you, go in the corner and eat your happy meal


da-da-da-da-da Im loving it!!!!

[Number 5]

bruce, maybe you haven't noticed but mike does sell a generic brand of both 6-oxo and gabatropin (under different names of course).

-5

[DArklite]

Yeah me too, this sh*t beats reality TV any day :)

[1fast400]

I sell 6-oxo raw powder and I sell phenibut powder.

I paid Bill with a royalty check, so please shut up.

As far as the comment about the people who know me. Well, lets just say there are a lot more people that like me than like you. I just don't like retards that take advantage of people. Have you not made the corrleation that all those that "hate" me have ripped off the consumer in some fashion?


Why don't you just admit it, Mike...you pulled yet another hatchet job on me like you are famous for with Ulter and Protein Factory and admit that while you respect PA's patents, you really enjoyed ****ing Bill L on the **** he sells despite him telling you, in public, that he had patents pending on the stuff. Admit it, you get off on it, you're a weasel.

You could have a patent pending on anything, doesn't mean jack. I don't have to buy material from him, there is no law saying I do. I DID pay him with a royalty check not long ago. Man, you "know" so much.

I'm going to eat. Why don't you go take some phenibut and morph into one of the other bruce personalities before posting again.

[Aeternal]

This board will be beat when the PH ban comes. No more arguments from PA, Mike, and Bruce.....

Anyone else notice that sledge never gets involved yet he has as much riding on this compound as everyone else? Wonder why........

[min]

Originally posted by Aeternal
This board will be beat when the PH ban comes. No more arguments from PA, Mike, and Bruce.....

Anyone else notice that sledge never gets involved yet he has as much riding on this compound as everyone else? Wonder why........

he's smart...this is waist of time!
I love it though :D

[min]

Originally posted by Aeternal
This board will be beat when the PH ban comes. No more arguments from PA, Mike, and Bruce.....

Anyone else notice that sledge never gets involved yet he has as much riding on this compound as everyone else? Wonder why........

he's smart...this is waist of time!
I love it though :D

[min]

Originally posted by Aeternal
This board will be beat when the PH ban comes. No more arguments from PA, Mike, and Bruce.....

Anyone else notice that sledge never gets involved yet he has as much riding on this compound as everyone else? Wonder why........

he's smart...this is waist of time!
I love it though :D

[Number 5]

Originally posted by Aeternal
Anyone else notice that sledge never gets involved yet he has as much riding on this compound as everyone else? Wonder why........

he does get involved sometimes. he provided a CoA right away of his initial batch when PA announced his findings and he admitted his second batch (which was under testing at the time) was not looking good so he later dumped it and got a new one.

i like his approach b/c he says he tests his stuff before selling it and apparently will provide CoA's if necessary.

-5

[artica]

why not create products, sell it for what it's worth, quit ripping people off, and avoid situations like this. PA and Bruce are in the same boat, the difference is that PA and Mike have something going on(bj's??). Mike can't create anything of his own, yet sells other people's **** at a satisfying price. It's a no win situation, well except for MIke, he can just sit back and wait then buy and sell it cheaper.... hahahahahahaha that sucks for Bruce, PA's gotta be doing something right with Mike.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by bruce*******
OK I will restate..."and end up with a nice, white, fluffy crystalline powder".

If it is "so easy" why is the raw material cost for this ester so much more than that of say...the THP ether, Pat?
Or even the undecanoate ester, same process to make the undecanoate ester as it is to make the "hexyl decanoate" ester, right Pat? Just one uses "undecanoic acid" and the other uses "hexyl decanoic acid", right Pat?

Why the whopping price disparity?



could be a zillion reasons, but frankly who really cares??

[Jedi Master]

^^

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by Jedi Master
^^

^^

[StanChampion]

Originally posted by Jedi Master
^^
^^^

[The Dark]

I guess the nurse finally came in and gave Bruce his injection...phew! Of course, it could just be the fact that it is impossible to type when you are in five ways...

[carcinogen]

Originally posted by bruce*******
So because we use a lab in another country this means it is not legit? Or that a domestic lab (and I do not consider PA to be a real lab) is?

No, I said I am not MAKING the product anymore, we still have finished product to sell Mike, and I am not making it until my stuff gets released (hopefully before the ban or we run out of finished product to sell).

I do not read Caleb's board anyore. Regardless, he did not so much as even acknowledge in an e-mail to me that he received it, never mind discussed it.

Why do I care even if I was not planning on selling another bottle? Are you that stupid? Or just deliberately being an idiot.
If someone said a product you used to sell is junk, then why not take the next logical step and say, "everything he sells is junk, how can you trust the guy in any of his products, he did it before, who is to say he will not do it again".

This is why I care Mike.

But you already knew this. And I expect you to fully trash my next methyl prosteroid when it comes out for the reason above along with whatever hatchet job you intend to do on me along with your master, PA.

Except this time, I have a little surprise for you should you decide to pull this crap again.


BK

Just have it properly identified and this whole mess would have been avoided...(ie IR and GC/MS)...HPLC alone should not be used as a test to identify compounds (LC/MS can though)

Any analytical lab should have these (from evironmental to pharamceutical)...just provide a reference for them

These are quick and easy tests that shouldn't break the bank

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally posted by carcinogen
Just have it properly identified and this whole mess would have been avoided...(ie IR and GC/MS)...HPLC alone should not be used as a test to identify compounds (LC/MS can though)

Any analytical lab should have these (from evironmental to pharamceutical)...just provide a reference for them

These are quick and easy tests that shouldn't break the bank


Its all moot anyway, at least in regards to these steroid products. Anyone investing in a new "prosteroid" project at this point is a fool

[artica]

damn it, right when things are flying in. I was so sure that methyl-D was going to be a sure thing. If not it, then one of you was going to come out with the "ONE" prosteroid that was the "ONE".

Something like Test. Prop. or Trenbolone. That'd be the ****.

[Sldgehmr]

There really isnt anything to get involved in. I tested my powder, I posted the results of several tests, that is all that needs to be said.
This is a 3 page rant.