l-arginine found in NO2

[marek]

from www.supplementwatch.com
Arginine

Description Arginine is an amino acid and is also referred to as "L-Arginine" (the L stands for "levo" and designates the amino acid as naturally occurring and distinguishes from the D or " " synthetic amino acids.).

Claims Protection from heart disease
Reduces cholesterol
Lowers blood pressure
Improves poor circulation


Theory Arginine is a key component of the nitric oxide pathway ? and important cascade of reactions involved in vasodilation and related to cardiovascular function. Arginine supplements have been associated with reductions in symptoms associated with coronary artery disease and may be capable of slowing the progression of atherosclerosis
In the body, arginine serves as the substrates for the nitric oxide synthase enzyme, which catalyzes the oxidation of arginine to produce citrulline and nitric oxide (NO). In the cells that line the blood vessels (endothelium cells), nitric oxide production causes vasodilation (opening of the vessels). NO is involved in the overall regulation of systemic vascular resistance, where it inhibits the adherence of cells and foreign substances to the blood vessel walls and helps suppress the overgrowth of smooth muscle cells in the lining of the vessels.

Because humans can synthesize arginine, it has been classified as a non-essential amino acid. Recent evidence suggests that the rate of synthesis of arginine in the body is insufficient for optimal health ? a situation which would re-classify arginine as a semi-essential or conditionally essential amino acid.


Scientific Support In people with elevated cholesterol levels, it is common to see a reduced ability of the endothelium to produce NO and, therefore, to dilate effectively. In addition, because NO production may be limited, blood cells such as monocytes and platelets are more likely to attach themselves to the inner vessel wall and lead to blockages. Arginine supplements (8-21 grams per day) have been shown to restore endothelial vasodilation in the coronary arteries of people with high cholesterol and reduce the ability of blood cells to adhere to the vessel walls. Improvements in coronary artery blood flow and reductions in myocardial ischemia and walking pain due to claudication have been noted with arginine supplements (9-14 g/day).

Safety Arginine supplements have been used safely in patients with heart disease in doses up to more than 20 grams per day.

Value For those individuals at risk for coronary artery disease, including those who experience ischemia due to reduced blood flow and oxygen delivery, arginine supplements may be an effective strategy for improving circulation to the heart and other affected areas (such as vessels in the calves).

Dosage A daily arginine requirement has been calculated to be approximately 8 grams per day (based on calculations for a 70-kg person). Since the average American diet contains only about 5 grams of arginine per day, there would appear to be a deficit in intake versus requirements. Importantly, the primary dietary sources of arginine, like all amino acids, are meats and other high protein foods (nuts, eggs).

[phaledax]

(book mark post)
good post :)

[LJ57]

Is the arginine AKG in products like NO2 any better than regular L-arginine?

[TylerT]

Does anyone know if nitrous is better than NO2 or NOX3 , ive heard it was but i wanted to make sure

[Zachattack43]

Originally posted by TylerT
Does anyone know if nitrous is better than NO2 or NOX3 , ive heard it was but i wanted to make sure
well look for some studies showing Di-L-Arginine malate is superior to AAKG, which will be very very hard to find, so why not just taker user feedback and try out Nitrous. I had at least 10x better results with it than NO2

[TylerT]

All of these posts about Nitrous just seem to be saying that it gives you better pumps and more indurance for sets. Does it build muscle also, I havent heard anyone say anything about getting bigger with it...

[kendog]

Well if it give you more endurance for sets than it would make you bigger.

[DAMBIGlsu]

Ornithine helps prompt the release of growth hormone, which promotes the metabolism of excess body fat. This effect is enhanced if ornithine is combined with arginine.
Arginine as great as it is for numerous reason should not be taken in the high doses for long periods of time that companys recommend. A recent study found that several weeks of large doses may result in thickening and coarsening of the skin. This is understandable because arginine is found in high concentrations in the skin and connective tissues. Also studies show that high doses of Arginine-AKG can be damaging to the brain if taken for long periods of time. My recommendation along with several doctors specializing in sports nutrition is taking does of 3-4grams 30-45 minutes prior to training. This raise your nitric-oxide levels for about 3-4 hours which is ampel time. Taking it throughout the day does keep you in a constant "pumped-up" state but what is the need for that when you only benefit from it while you are in the gym and immediately afterwards. Companies merely tell you to take so much so they can rake in profits. Save yourself some money and try this on for size.

[Zachattack43]

Originally posted by DAMBIGlsu
Ornithine helps prompt the release of growth hormone, which promotes the metabolism of excess body fat.
yea this was a HOT old school supp, slowly making a slow slow comeback, but what dose is it effective/noticable.

[97S281_27]

Originally posted by zachattack43
yea this was a HOT old school supp, slowly making a slow slow comeback, but what dose is it effective/noticable.

I've noitced a difference when i supplement 500mg of ornithine for every 1000mg arginine. Some other health based products made by now have a ratio simliar to this just smaller amounts. It also depends upon your diet, if you can eat foods higher in these particular amino's you don't have to supplement as much, or the more you supplement even better result you'll get.

[Zachattack43]

Originally posted by 97S281_27
I've noitced a difference when i supplement 500mg of ornithine for every 1000mg arginine. Some other health based products made by now have a ratio simliar to this just smaller amounts. It also depends upon your diet, if you can eat foods higher in these particular amino's you don't have to supplement as much, or the more you supplement even better result you'll get.
but what foods are high in ornithine???

[pu12en12g]

Whatever you think of Nitric Oxide products, this is worth the read:

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1524-475X.2003.11605.x/full/

"Arginine is a basic amino acid that plays several pivotal roles in cellular physiology. Like any amino acid, it is involved with protein synthesis, but it is also intimately involved with cell signaling through the production of nitric oxide and cell proliferation through its metabolism to ornithine and the other polyamines. Because of these multiple functions, arginine is an essential substrate for wound healing processes. Numerous studies have shown that arginine supplementation can lead to normalization or improvement of healing. This article reviews the basic biochemistry and cell signaling within which arginine performs its functions. In particular, the requirement for this amino acid in tissue repair is highlighted."

"Arginine is a dibasic amino acid. It is a constituent of several proteins in the body, and its metabolism is intimately tied to several metabolic pathways involved in the synthesis of urea, NO, polyamines, agmatine, and creatine phosphate. Arginine can be provided via nutritional intake or via new synthesis. Citrulline, generated from glutamine in the small intestine, is the major precursor for arginine. 4 About 50% of the ingested arginine is released into the portal circulation. The other part is directly utilized in the small bowel. The physiological uptake of arginine and citrulline by the liver is low because the liver does not express large amounts of the cationic transporter for the basic amino acid arginine (system y+). Therefore, most of the portal venous arginine and citrulline enters the systemic circulation and serves as substrate for extrahepatic tissues."

"...Although iNOS gene deletion delays, and arginine and NO administration improve healing, the exact mechanisms of action of NO on wound healing parameters are still unknown."

"One of the well-known biological effects of arginine is its very potent secretagogue activity on the pituitary 4547 and pancreatic glands. 48,49 The beneficial effects of supplemental arginine on wound healing are similar to the effects noted when growth hormone is administered to wounded animals or burned children."

"The response of healthy elderly human volunteers given 2 weeks of dietary supplementation with 30 g of arginine aspartate is enhanced wound collagen accumulation together with a significant elevation in circulating IGF-1. 39 This suggests that arginine does stimulate pituitary activity in the doses used and that this may be one of the mechanisms of action underlying its beneficial effect on wound healing."

[Ceaze]

Originally posted by DAMBIGlsu
Ornithine helps prompt the release of growth hormone, which promotes the metabolism of excess body fat. This effect is enhanced if ornithine is combined with arginine. the increase in GH is of little significance

[pu12en12g]

"Nitric oxide generation from L-arginine is required for optimal human peripheral blood lymphocyte DNA synthesis."- Efron DT, Kirk SJ, Regan MC, Wasserkrug HL, Barbul A. Department of Surgery, Sinai Hospital of Baltimore, MD 21215.

"These data suggest that nitric oxide synthesis is critical to wound collagen accumulation and acquisition of mechanical strength".

Nitric oxide regulates wound healing - J Surg Res. 1996 Jun;63(1):237-40. Schaffer MR, Tantry U, Gross SS, Wasserburg HL, Barbul A.

"NO has been shown to be cytostatic to multiple cell types including endothelial cells, smooth muscle cells, hepatocytes, and fibroblasts [37, 38 and 39]. Depending on the cell type this effect can be cGMP dependent [40] or independent [41]. Target enzymes include complexes I and II of the respiratory chain [42] and ribonucleotide reductase [43], a rate-limiting enzyme in the DNA synthetic pathway. NO is cytostatic in large doses. However, several studies have shown that NO can stimulate cell proliferation when added in low concentrations [44 and 45]. Recent evidence suggests that NO can also reduce cell proliferation by inhibiting ornithine-decarboxylase activity, the rate limiting enzyme for polyamine formation [46].

NO also regulates gene expression [47 and 48] and cellular differentiation [49 and 50]. Regulation of gene expression by NO probably occurs indirectly, through amplification of other regulatory mechanisms [51]. For example, although NO is critical for wound collagen deposition, clear-cut enhancement of collagen synthesis or gene expression has not been found (see the following). Collagen metabolism and accumulation are tightly regulated through the activity of collagenases and their inhibitors, tissue inhibitors of metalloproteinases (TIMP). Inhibiting the collagenolytic pathway can enhance collagen accumulation. Addition of the NO donor SNAP to rat mesangial cells increases gelatinase A activity [52] whereas rat fibroblasts collagenase activity is unaffected by SNAP [41]. Another potential mechanism of posttranslational collagen regulation by NO is regulation of protein kinase C (PKC) activity [53 and 54]. By inhibiting PKC activity, NO could down-regulate PKC-related collagen synthesis in fibroblasts.

when humans and animals are fed an arginine-enriched diet there is improved healing as measured by collagen deposition and breaking strength"

http://technologyorgasm.com/upload/0.gif

"We also review the evidence that in certain nutritional or disease states or in certain stages of development otherwise dispensable amino acids may become indispensable. Arginine, citrulline, ornithine, cysteine, and tyrosine thus may be considered as acquired indispensable amino acids. Evidence for the indispensability of taurine is also considered. We propose a classification of the indispensability of amino acids based on clinical and therapeutic considerations."

- Newer concepts of the indispensable amino acids. Laidlaw SA, Kopple JD. Am J Clin Nutr. 1987 Oct;46(4):593-605.

"Some stress conditions that put an increased demand on the body for the synthesis of L-arginine include trauma (including surgical trauma), sepsis and burns. Under these conditions, L-arginine becomes essential, and it is then very important to ensure adequate dietary intake of the amino acid to meet the increased physiological demands created by these situations.

L-arginine, even when it is not an essential amino acid as defined above, is a vital one. In addition to participating in protein synthesis, it plays a number of other roles in the body. These include the detoxification of ammonia formed during the nitrogen catabolism of amino acids via the formation of urea. In addition, L-arginine is a precursor in the formation of nitric oxide, creatine, polyamines, L-glutamate, L-proline, agmatin (a possible neurotransmitter in the brain) and the arginine-containing tetrapeptide tuftsin, believed to be an immunomodulator. L-arginine is a glycogenic amino acid; it can be converted to D-glucose and glycogen if needed by the body or it can be catabolized to produce biological energy.

L-arginine, when administered in high doses, stimulates pituitary release of growth hormone and prolactin and pancreatic release of glucagon and insulin. Intravenous L-arginine may be used as an aid in the evaluation of problems with growth and stature that may be due to growth hormone deficiency. Intravenous arginine hydrochloride may be used as a fourth-line agent in the treatment of severe metabolic alkalosis. L-arginine is also used as an immunonutrient in enteral and parenteral nutrition to help improve the immune status in those suffering from sepsis, burns and trauma."

"L-arginine supplements theoretically may potentiate the effects of organic nitrates if taken concomitantly."

[pu12en12g]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
L-arginine, when administered in high doses, stimulates pituitary release of growth hormone and prolactin and pancreatic release of glucagon and insulin.

More on Prolactin:

Prolactin is a hormone produced by the anterior pituitary gland in both men and women. It is known as a gonadotrophic hormone as it affects the gonads (testes and ovaries). It also has an effect on other organs in the body. However, only the effects on the reproductive organs will be discussed here.

In males, prolactin influences the production of testosterone and affects sperm production. In conditions where prolactin secretion is increased (hyperprolactinaemia), testosterone levels drop and sperm production is reduced or absent, resulting in male infertility. <----- Very interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on this ?

The main action of prolactin in females is the induction and maintenance of lactation (breastfeeding). Prolactin levels build up during pregnancy but milk secretion does not begin until after birth. As an infant suckles, prolactin is released into the mother's blood stream, causing the milk glands to produce more milk. Prolactin and other hormones are responsible for the development of mammary glands during pregnancy. Prolactin also affects the ovaries. The main target area is the corpus luteum, the secretory organ formed from the ruptured ovarian follicle after ovulation. High prolactin levels lead to reduced progesterone function. The result of hyperprolactinaemia (excess production of prolactin) can be the non-appearance of menarche (beginning of menstruation at puberty), amenorrhoea (absence of menstruation in a woman after puberty) and anovulatory menstrual cycles (absence of ovulation i.e. no mature eggs produced). These effects can be the basis of female infertility.

There are many causes of increased prolactin secretion.

[Zachattack43]

Originally posted by pu12en12g

In males, prolactin influences the production of testosterone and affects sperm production. In conditions where prolactin secretion is increased (hyperprolactinaemia), testosterone levels drop and sperm production is reduced or absent, resulting in male infertility. <----- Very interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on this ?

well ****, who wants my Cold Fusion and Nitrous? haha...

[pu12en12g]

Effects of arginine and ornithine on strength, lean body mass and urinary hydroxyproline in adult males.

Elam RP, Hardin DH, Sutton RA, Hagen L.

"Twenty-two adult males participated in a 5 week progressive strength training program. One half the subjects received the amino acids L-arginine and L-ornithine and the other half, a placebo. The study used a double blind protocol so that subjects as well as investigators had no knowledge of which substances were being administered. Dosages amounted to 2 grams or 1 gram each of L-arginine and L-ornithine, and 600 mg of calcium and 1 gram of Vitamin C as placebos. These supplements were taken orally for a total of 25 administrations. Following the short term strength program using progressively high intensities, tests were taken for total strength (TS), lean body mass (LBM) and urinary hydroxyproline (UH).

The results from ANOVA showed that subjects who were taking the arginine-ornithine combination scored significantly higher in TS and LBM (p less than .05), and significantly lower in UH (p less than .05), than subjects on placebos.

It was concluded that arginine and ornithine taken in prescribed doses can, in conjunction with a high intensity strength training program, increase TS (Total Strength) and LBM (Lean Body Mass) in a relatively short period of time. Arginine and ornithine also aid in recovery from chronic stress by quelling tissue breakdown as evidenced by lower UH levels."

[CuttingEdge]

Just buy some arginine powder.

I can't believe how much money people waste on NO products.

[Zachattack43]

Originally posted by CuttingEdge
Just buy some arginine powder.

I can't believe how much money people waste on NO products. now i say **** arginine, just eat foods high in it like eggs, nuts, etc. Also your regular protein and protein shakes

[Immichaelski]

Thats the main ingridient in any of these muscle pump supplements. It also causes herpes breakouts. Be careful

[pu12en12g]

The Nitric Oxide + Creatine stack:

The more muscle you gain, the greater the demand on creatine-synthesizing pathways to supply extra creatine to the newly added tissue. Arginine is required for the synthesis of creatine. Almost 2.5 grams of arginine are required to match the daily loss of creatine (as creatinine) in a 70-kg (~154-lb) male. By combining arginine with creatine, more arginine is free to promote nitrogen retention (essential for building muscle) and enhance sodium and water excretion (so-called 'muscle hardening' effects).

"[O]rally administered arginine hydrochloride certainly has anabolic effects by increasing insulin secretion. This molecule has been often used for its anti-asthenic effects in convalescent patients. Weight gain often occurs in patients receiving this therapy. This weight gain is often considered to be a side effect but is to be taking into account when arginine is consumed."

- Arginine researcher Dr. Adrien Schaefer

[polar-b]

I have tried NO2 and NOx, and they did not work at all other than give me an accelerated heart rate, and made me horny the first couple of times I took it.
As far as improving endurance and anaerobic performance it hurt more than helped. It was worse for mental performance making me jittery and unfocused.
The only thing it was good for (marginally) was sexual arousal, but that was only the first couple of times using the stuff. After that, it hindered my performance.

In short: a total waste of money.

[pu12en12g]

Originally posted by polar-b
I have tried NO2 and NOx, and they did not work at all other than give me an accelerated heart rate, and made me horny the first couple of times I took it.
As far as improving endurance and anaerobic performance it hurt more than helped. It was worse for mental performance making me jittery and unfocused.
The only thing it was good for (marginally) was sexual arousal, but that was only the first couple of times using the stuff. After that, it hindered my performance.

In short: a total waste of money.

Sounds like your diet was not up to par.

[rafael]

whenever any of you decides to post some article PLESE type the reference of the actual scientific research backing it up.

or don't make any claims.

by the way there is no reserch on no2

"The “active” ingredient in NO2 that is supposed to produce these effects is arginine alpha-ketogluterate. Once the marketing smoke screen is swept aside, you’ll find there is no scientific evidence that even remotely substantiates these claims. None, zero, nada, zilch."Paul cribb.

[pu12en12g]

Originally posted by rafael
whenever any of you decides to post some article PLESE type the reference of the actual scientific research backing it up.

or don't make any claims.

by the way there is no reserch on no2

"The ?active? ingredient in NO2 that is supposed to produce these effects is arginine alpha-ketogluterate. Once the marketing smoke screen is swept aside, you?ll find there is no scientific evidence that even remotely substantiates these claims. None, zero, nada, zilch."Paul cribb.

Wow... could you possibly BE any MORE clueless ?

[rafael]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
Wow... could you possibly BE any MORE clueless ?



you know what, never mind.

go knock your self out with no2

[zuche]

no2 is the best supplement out
make sure to get ed byrds its allready a classic.

the other brands arent as reliable
i think muscletech also tried making an no2 tab

if anyone has taken they should list results
im kind of curious about it

[Zachattack43]

Originally posted by zuche
no2 is the best supplement out
make sure to get ed byrds its allready a classic.

the other brands arent as reliable
i think muscletech also tried making an no2 tab

if anyone has taken they should list results
im kind of curious about it NO2 is not the best bro, some ppl think so, but i have tried 3 bottles of it and it doesnt even compare to Syntrax's Nitrous, but then again results vary by user

[zuche]

dude i had a good per pump but my blood flow wasn't working down there

did you have any of these issues?
why did you like syntrax's version better?

and what is the price on it

[zuche]

dude i had a good per pump but my blood flow wasn't working down there

did you have any of these issues?
why did you like syntrax's version better?

and what is the price on it

[Zachattack43]

Originally posted by zuche
dude i had a good per pump but my blood flow wasn't working down there

did you have any of these issues?
why did you like syntrax's version better?

and what is the price on it
i had a great all around pump even down there. Although next time i Use Nitrous I will combine it with creatine for greater results. Nitrous is about 27-30 at bb.com for a months supply.

I liked Syntrax better for it felt like with the powder i got all of it or omst of it absorbed in my body and really felt the effect of it.

People agree these 3 NO products are the best Nitrix by BSN, Cold Fusion by Legal Gear and Nitrous by Syntrax

[zuche]

Originally posted by zachattack43
i had a great all around pump even down there. Although next time i Use Nitrous I will combine it with creatine for greater results. Nitrous is about 27-30 at bb.com for a months supply.

I liked Syntrax better for it felt like with the powder i got all of it or omst of it absorbed in my body and really felt the effect of it.

People agree these 3 NO products are the best Nitrix by BSN, Cold Fusion by Legal Gear and Nitrous by Syntrax

[sicosico]

arginine no2 products work in high dosages like 20 grams so you can take 4 servings of nitrous and you''ll have ultimate pumbs

[DontRevMe]

What about the L-arganine pills? 1000mg and the bottle says 3 servings a day. Same effect?

[KCPreki11]

well that would be 3 grams a day, I think you need a higher dose.

Are we all overlooking what pu12en12g posted:

"In males, prolactin influences the production of testosterone and affects sperm production. In conditions where prolactin secretion is increased (hyperprolactinaemia), testosterone levels drop and sperm production is reduced or absent, resulting in male infertility. <----- Very interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on this ?"

AM I NOT READING THIS RIGHT? So all these N02 products which get some much hype and arginine contribute to testosterone drop and infertility?

Zachattack...are you stacking Cold Fusion and Nitrous?

[Derek0783]

Arginine is found in many of the foods you eat everyday. You don't need supplementation of Arginine! Thats all marketing crap. Go eat a few handful of peanuts and get all the arginine you'll ever need in one day!

[KCPreki11]

Arginine is found in many of the foods you eat everyday. You don't need supplementation of Arginine! Thats all marketing crap. Go eat a few handful of peanuts and get all the arginine you'll ever need in one day!

Your post should point to a study where it tells of the maximum arginine absorption the body can handle in one day.

[CuttingEdge]

He can't....

[Derek0783]

Your post should point to a study where it tells of the maximum arginine absorption the body can handle in one day.

Why?



He can't....

And why..not?





5 grams of something from whole food is always better than 10 grams of it in an isolated form. You know how taking vitamin C pills is a complete waste (hope you know that by now "cuttingEdge"), because it is not combined with other certain elements that are found in whole foods; well its the same thing for most other isolated forms of vitamins, nutrients, minerals and such. Nothing works as efficient in it's isolated form compared to when it's in it's whole food form.

Take care,
Derek

[KCPreki11]

Why?

Then we would know if arginine supplemation is the joke you claim it to be.

[Derek0783]

Then we would know if arginine supplemation is the joke you claim it to be.


I don't have any specific studies. I have what I know from past experience and research. I gave my advice. Some may agree and some may not. In time, hopefully you guys figure it out. I just hope you haven't wasted too much money by then.

P.S.


"Humans cannot break the laws of Nature. They can only break themselves against these laws. Consider the human body and the natural laws that determine how the cells are nourished.

The body is composed of between 80 and 100 trillion cells. Approximately one billion cells must be replaced every hour - 24 billion cells a day! A section of skin the size of a quarter, 1/20th of an inch thick, contains: over 3 million cells, 36 inches of blood vessels, 144 inches (4 yards) of nerves, 1,300 nerve cells, and 100 sweat glands. Each cell contains 300 to 800 "power plants" -- mitochondria. Each mitochondrion in liver cells has about 5,000 respiratory units; in heart cells about 25,000 respiratory units.

The body contains over 1,600 types of protein, each made of a different number and combination of about 20 to 22 amino acids. Enzymes are one type of protein. Every biochemical reaction depends upon a chemical response triggered and controlled by a specific enzyme system. Each cell must contain from 50,000 to 100,000 of these enzyme systems ready to go to work in a millionth of a second.

To carry on the life process, each of the 80 to 100 trillion cells must digest constructive food, excrete wastes, repair itself, and carry on other essential functions. Every cell requires all the known and unknown elements of nutrition.

Nutrients in foods are highly synergistic interactive complexes. Synergy means that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, that the relationship which the parts have to each other is the most catalytic, most empowering, most unifying, most functional or effective part. Synergy means that 1 + 1 may equal 8, 24, or even 1,600. Synergistic function produces more and better results than any action of any part separated from the whole.

Perhaps ecology can describe the synergism in nature. Ecology is concerned with the interrelationship of organisms and their environment. Everything is related to everything else. It is in the relationship that functional powers are maximized, that balance is maintained, that health and well being is enjoyed. If any part of the ecological whole is disrupted or destroyed, it adversely affects all the other parts and the whole. In fact, the whole is changed, altered. Function or effectiveness is in the unity, the interdependence, the teamwork.

For example, a vitamin is an extremely complex organic substance needed in small amounts yet essential for life and metabolic processes (growth, maintenance, repair, energy). Although often considered a single substance, each vitamin is a "group of chemically related compounds." Separating (fractionating) the group of compounds into single, incomplete portions converts it from a physiological, biochemical, active micronutrient into a disabled, debilitated chemical of little or no value to living cells. The synergy is gone.

Research is elucidating the various roles and interrelationships of vitamin compounds or complexes. Though the nature, chemical structure, and composition of most of them is considered "known," and many parts have been isolated and synthesized (manufactured in laboratories), science has only scratched the surface in identifying all the interdependent, interactive components.

The true potency of vitamins is delivered to the cells through the combined effect of the vitamin complex, rather than a single chemical, and is a functioning mechanism. The discovery of hundreds of phytochemicals since 1990 validates this concept. There is still much about food complexes that has yet to be discovered. Whole foods "harbor a whole ratatouille of compounds" that have never been segregated or manufactured by humans because, until recently, scientists did not even know they existed and do not know how many more there are.

Further, every individual human body is unique in its nutritional requirements. One person may require 10 times as much vitamin A or vitamin C as another person. Dr. Roger J. Williams wrote extensively about biochemical individuality, revealing that "every individual has nutritional needs which differ quantitatively, with respect to each separate nutrient, from his neighbors."

Although each person needs all the same nutrients, the quantities of each nutrient needed daily are "distinctively different." Each has a "pattern of needs all his own" which, in itself may vary due to environmental and circumstantial conditions. Between two young, healthy men of the same race, one may need 4.5 times as much calcium as the other and 6.5 times as much of a specific amino acid as the other. For some nutrients, the range of individual requirements may be even greater.

With natural foods and food concentrates the body can choose to assimilate its needs and excrete what it does not need. This is selective absorption. In contrast, fractionated and/or synthetic supplements allow no choice. The body must deal with the chemical in some manner and can suffer consequences of biochemical imbalances and toxic overdose.

A food can be isolated into many of its component parts but the body cannot get along on the parts so isolated. Henry C. Sherman, Columbia University, stated: "The chemist could analyze most foods with as near an approach to 100% as he could analyze most other natural things; but could not maintain normal nutrition by feeding the [separated] food constituents which his analysis reveals." To isolate or separate a vitamin, mineral, amino acid or other component and call it a nutrient is just as impractical as isolating a steering wheel, battery, or carburetor and calling it an automobile. It won't work without the other parts.


Continued........

[Derek0783]

LIVING ENERGY

The use of non-food, isolated or manufactured "high potency" supplements, whether vitamins, minerals, trace minerals, amino acids, sugars, or any other component, does not make biochemical sense. This is chemistry. The human body is concerned with biochemistry, the chemistry of living things. Molecules from living things can be isolated and examined individually. They will conform to all the physical and chemical laws of inanimate matter. "Yet living organisms possess extraordinary attributes not shown by collections of inanimate molecules..." Once separated from the living food, the molecules are dead.

Living organisms - whether plants, animals, or humans - are complicated and highly organized (organic). They possess intricate internal structures and contain many kinds of complex molecules which all work together. Inanimate matter - whether clay, sand, rock, a fractionated, synthetic supplement – "usually consists of random mixtures of relatively simple chemical compounds."

Every component of a living organism - every compound of each cell -- has a specific purpose or function. "But it is meaningless to ask about the function of different chemical compounds in inanimate matter; they just happen to be there." Focus should be on function over and above form. Dissecting a cadaver may reveal structure and content of body parts, but there is no living energy; the organs and tissues do not function. So too, separated or manufactured supplements may have some similar ingredients to whole foods, but they lack the living energy, the function, the synergy of multifaceted, natural food complexes.

Living organisms have the ability to extract, transform, and use energy from their environment (soil, food, sunlight, etc.). This energy enables living organisms to build and maintain their own intricate, energy-rich structures, to do work, grow, reproduce, repair, transport materials across membranes. Living organisms are organized and in a continuous process towards equilibrium within themselves or with their surroundings. Inanimate matter does not use energy in a purposeful way to maintain its structure and to do work. With time, it tends to decay towards a more random state, to be acted upon. Isolated, inanimate chemical-compound supplements are "just there," unorganized, dead matter.

Each food, each nutrient complex, has its own unique structure and biological activity. It is the harmonious functional interaction as a complete organic (organized) system that counts. The complimentary nature of these forces show that the relationships of components are orderly rather than chaotic. Scientists cannot create a living thing - life comes only from life. They can break foods apart, destroying living synergistic principles. Or they can imitate one or more elements from foods (a mirror image which is not the same). They cannot duplicate nature.

Food nutrients function when they are all alive, vigorous, working in combination, in unison. Amino acids always work in affiliation with other amino acids. All the B vitamins function together as a whole and with other associated nutritives and co-enzymes. Water-soluble vitamins work with fat-soluble vitamins. Vitamin C complex, for example, works with vitamin A complex, and in harmony with vitamin K complex. Vitamin E complex encompasses fatty acids including the essential fatty acids. All vitamins have trace mineral activators and appear in foods with other cooperative minerals.

The active, living energy principles in foods are enzymes, the organic catalysts which stimulate activity. Yet, the word "catalyst" is inadequate. "Catalysts are only inert sub-stances. They possess none of the life energy we find in enzymes. For instance, enzymes give off a kind of radiation when they work. This is not true of catalysts." This radiation is the energy released as they work. When food is cooked – 130 degrees F or above - the life of enzymes is destroyed. Oxygen is lost. The food is dead. Its very fibers lose their magnetism or potential. No chemist can make an enzyme, so no chemist can make a natural vitamin or mineral or protein. This is the difference between isolated, non-food, or synthetic supplements and natural food complexes: one is a chemical and one is a living thing. As life is dynamic, magnetic, organic, so death is static, non-magnetic, and inorganic.

Nature does not produce vitamins, minerals, trace minerals, or any other food components in concentrated or segregated forms, but merges and blends them - synchronizes them - for the body's needs. The idea that 'if a little is good, more is better' leads to ingestion of megadoses or "high potency," refined, separated ‘nutrients,’ dismantled, disassembled, or artificially manufactured chemical supplements. This will "work" for a short time - pharmacologically stimulating or suppressing. Eventually this method backfires and causes complications, imbalances. The body works to eliminate the excess and what it perceives as foreign, nonfood. It attempts to combine the isolated chemical with other members of the complex which normally appear in food, taking rather than giving. Such supplements do not contribute to health. They only disrupt it. Balance and function - not quantity - is the key.

Dr. Charles G. King commented: "The same intake of a given nutrient" - as in fractionated or synthetic supplements – "may be optimum, toxic, or inadequate, depending on the intake of other nutrients." Nature always provides "other nutrients" within whole foods - they are complete, intact packages.

Most so-called "natural" vitamins, antioxidants, phytochemicals, etc., sold today are either synthetic products or crystallized extracts of natural products. They are like refined white sugar (sucrose) which is a far cry from the whole sugar cane or beets from which it was extracted. It may be called "natural" due to its origin, but it cannot be considered a food, as nourishment. It disrupts the biochemistry. The extraction process for most commercial supplements employs powerful chemical solvents such as ether, benzene, and methyl alcohol, precipitants such as barium chloride, lead and aluminum salts, and distillation at high temperatures. These chemical processes denature nutrients, isolates them from their natural synergists, destroys their related enzymes, and may leave toxic residues. Bioactive, functional processes are gone. These supplements in no way resemble food. And the body knows it!

Continued...

[Derek0783]

FRIEND OR FOE?

The body uses food concentrates as it deems proper, incorporating them into cellular fluids around cells if needed. This is "physiological appropriation." With drugs, isolated or synthetic vitamins, and other xenobiotics, there is no "physiological appropriation" - no control because the human body was not programmed for chemicals which it cannot recognize as food. Drugs either stop or slow a certain body function or stimulate some body function. Synthetic vitamins, other isolated nutrients, standardized herbs, etc. - particularly "high potency" - have pharmacological effects too. Usually the body strives to eliminate as much of the substance as possible, as soon as possible. The liver detoxifies or renders less toxic the substance, the rate of circulation increases to rush the substance through blood vessels, and the kidneys eliminate it in the urine.

That the body treats crystalline-pure vitamins and similar supplements as xenobiotics (foreign substances) has been repeatedly demonstrated. For example, scientists at Beloit College report that the body eliminates much of crystalline ascorbic acid (so-called "vitamin C") within 12 hours after ingestion. The scientists' suggestion was to take ascorbic acid several times during the day because it is eliminated so quickly. The body is trying to get rid of this chemical! Why add insult to injury with more of what is treated as alien or detrimental?

High potency concentrations are not really nutrients but, in essence, drugs. Food concentrate supplements, unlike drugs, will not have a drug effect. There is no euphoria, no immediate energy boost, which is often experienced with high-potency fractions. This "high" is a result of the increased heart rate as the body rushes the chemical(s) through the circulation for excretion - the xenobiotic effect.

Conversely, natural complexes do not have drug effects. For example, potassium, calcium, magnesium and related minerals in food form and in physiological amounts can enhance relaxation or sleep, but do not induce sleep or depress or stimulate or have any other drug effect. True nutritional supplementation helps restore biochemical and physiological equilibrium - nothing more, nothing less. If a person has biochemical and physiological equilibrium, that person has health!

ANTIOXIDANTS & PHYTOCHEMICALS

"Antioxidants" and "phytochemicals" are buzz words nowadays. For instance, beta-carotene is very popular. However: "The Cancer Institute recommends that rather than rely on [synthetic or fractionated] supplements, people eat low-fat diets abundant in fruits and vegetables, whose hundreds of substances combined might be fostering the disease protection that has been sought in beta carotene."

Antioxidants are parts - protective agents for the more complex and functional parts of a nutritional complex. They are like the shell of a nut, the peel of a banana, a means of preventing or delaying oxidation to prevent rapid deterioration or rancidity. Thus ascorbic acid protects the functional components of the vitamin C complex.

The theory that antioxidants protect bodily cells from free-radical damage is based on in vitro- test tube or petri dish - observation. No one has actually "seen" free radicals do damage in live human or animal tissues. Researchers admit that oxidative free-radical damage may be a consequence of tissue injury rather than a cause. When tissue is injured, the damaged or dead cells must be removed so proper repair can take place. Reasonably, free-radicals could play a role in cellular breakdown in order that those damaged cells are eliminated. This is what takes place elsewhere in nature: an apple turns brown (oxidation) when sliced in order to break down the exposed damaged organic matter. Antioxidants can prevent premature or excessive oxidation. For example, tocopherols protect the functional parts of the vitamin E complex in food and in the body. But tocopherols are not vitamin E complex. They are only a portion, a segment, a fragment, a member of the complex.

Foods such as fruits and vegetables contain many antioxidants. Antioxidants usually have, not only antioxidant activities, but many other nutritional benefits. "A diet rich in vegetables may help prevent age-related mental decline." Benefits to the central nervous system and cognitive behavioral deficits are thought to be due to the antioxidants in foods, yet there are so many other components that can contribute including phytochemicals, vitamins, minerals, trace minerals, and so on. Whole foods "offer greater protection than individual nutrients."

Study participants consuming greater amounts of fruits and vegetables showed significantly less oxidative "damage" (tissue breakdown). "High intakes of fruits and vegetables provide a better source of antioxidants than [manufactured] vitamins." Whole foods provide the comprehensive, intact nourishing package required for health. So-called "natural" supplements like fractionated or synthetic vitamins, single or combination amino acids, isolated inorganic minerals, etc., do not provide the naturally-occurring complexes of foods. In large amounts they can and do disrupt and imbalance biochemistry. A healthful diet and whole food supplements provide "high amounts of various natural" nutrients which the body was designed to use.

During this decade, hundreds of "phytochemicals" (plant components) have been discovered in foods. Recent studies indicate that these substances, which occur naturally and abundantly in vegetables and fruits "may prevent, subdue, and even obliterate cancerous cells at several stages of development." They are also attributed with protective abilities against heart disease, eye diseases, and many other conditions. Over 4,000 phytochemicals have been identified so far, and "many more remain to be discovered." Only about 150 have been intensively studied. Yet each compound is always found to be therapeutically beneficial. They have been in whole foods and whole food supplements all along. They were never part of isolated, fractionated supplements.

Scientists are not - and cannot be - sure which phytochemicals are responsible for the protective benefits of any particular food. "These substances almost surely act synergistically - that is, in conjunction with other phytochemicals - as well as with vitamins, minerals, fiber, hormones, and other compounds in foods." For instance, research that showed a link between a high intake of tomatoes and a reduced risk of prostate cancer were studies of tomato consumption. Lycopene, plentiful in tomatoes, was assumed to be the protective element. But no one knows if it was the lycopene or the synergistic effect of many or all the elements in tomatoes. So phytochemical supplements do not make sense. Whole, natural foods do.


CAROTENOIDS

Carotenoids are important players among the thousands of phytochemicals. Beta-carotene has been the most studied carotenoid. Researchers are trying to figure out why foods rich in beta-carotene reduce the risk of cancer, for instance, while high does of synthetic, crystalline-pure isolate supplements seem to either unaffect or increase the risk. The results of intervention studies have not indicated "any protective action of supplementary beta-carotene with respect to cancer prevention." On the other hand: "Numerous observational studies have found that people who ingest more carotenoids or more fruits and vegetables - the primary dietary sources of carotenoids - have a reduced risk of several chronic diseases" including heart disease, macular degeneration, and cancer. "However, supplementation of pharmacological doses of beta-carotene for the prevention of common chronic diseases is not recommended…" The same may be said for any nutrient. Manufactured, isolated, non-food source "nutrients" do not function like whole nutritive complexes of foods. Fractionated "nutrients" are not really nutrients - they are missing all other cooperative parts, and the body cannot use them for nourishment the way it uses food. The failure of synthetic, separate beta-carotene to provide the healthful benefits of whole foods led researchers to "actualize the question of whether some other substances that are present in fruits and vegetables provide the protection." Actually, it is the whole food with all its active substances working together that supplies the function.

Food forms of carotenoids (carotenes) are "better absorbed, and function better" in the body "than pure, synthetic beta-carotene." A diet low in beta-carotene (and other carotenes in the "package") suppressed at least one marker of immune response. Supplementation with a synthetic beta-carotene did not improve the response. Supplementation with a concentrate of food-derived mixed carotenoids (a complex) corrected the imbalance.

Studies indicate that large amounts of isolated or synthetic beta-carotene contribute to an increased risk of cancer. But people who eat diets high in beta-carotene have less cancer. Taking high amounts of the fraction can result in reduced amounts of the protective retinoic acid. Can one eat too much beta-carotene in foods? "Not at all. Because it's accompanied by over five hundred other carotenoids, beta-carotene is completely safe when it's part of your diet." The whole food complex is always healthful. Only separated or human-manufactured chemicals cause imbalance or detriment.


Continued...

[Derek0783]

Just read the rest from here so I don't have to keep posting.....I didn't know you could only post every 60 seconds...


http://www.oz.net/~csrh/of_foods.htm

[KCPreki11]

LOL, that's a lot more than I needed. I was just looking for a paragraph from a documented study.

[Wizry11]

that was very helpful thanks

[Mike83]

Ornithine helps prompt the release of growth hormone, which promotes the metabolism of excess body fat. This effect is enhanced if ornithine is combined with arginine.
Arginine as great as it is for numerous reason should not be taken in the high doses for long periods of time that companys recommend. A recent study found that several weeks of large doses may result in thickening and coarsening of the skin. This is understandable because arginine is found in high concentrations in the skin and connective tissues. Also studies show that high doses of Arginine-AKG can be damaging to the brain if taken for long periods of time. My recommendation along with several doctors specializing in sports nutrition is taking does of 3-4grams 30-45 minutes prior to training. This raise your nitric-oxide levels for about 3-4 hours which is ampel time. Taking it throughout the day does keep you in a constant "pumped-up" state but what is the need for that when you only benefit from it while you are in the gym and immediately afterwards. Companies merely tell you to take so much so they can rake in profits. Save yourself some money and try this on for size.


My on protien contains i think 4 grams per serving ?

Somedays I go thru 4 servings which is 8 scoops when i dont have time to make chicken.
I also take Trac which contains no2 and creatine.

How long is too long?

[KCPreki11]

anyone stacking Ornithine and L-Arginine?

[pu12en12g]

Arginine is found in many of the foods you eat everyday. You don't need supplementation of Arginine! Thats all marketing crap. Go eat a few handful of peanuts and get all the arginine you'll ever need in one day!

LMAO @ Derek0783

Do you even KNOW what free-form means ? Have you skipped the ENTIRE first page of the thread ? Do you know the importance of cell volumization ?

:D

[Sumantek]

NO2 is such a ripoff. Any PDE5 inhibitor(such as cialis and viagra) would be MUCH better at keeping NO raised for a bit.

Your body destroys the excess NO anyways, I don't have time to explain but will later. This stuff is crap.

[Sumantek]

LMAO @ Derek0783

Do you even KNOW what free-form means ? Have you skipped the ENTIRE first page of the thread ? Do you know the importance of cell volumization ?

:D

no, but he sure does know the importance of marketing. something that you don't seem to understand. "cell volumization"=big marketing ploy to get gullible little kids to throw down heaps of cash for a mix of arginin that "produces MIND BLOWING pumps" and crap like that. As I said above, if you really want to increase NO, get a PDE5 inhibitor.

[pu12en12g]

no, but he sure does know the importance of marketing. something that you don't seem to understand. "cell volumization"=big marketing ploy to get gullible little kids to throw down heaps of cash for a mix of arginin that "produces MIND BLOWING pumps" and crap like that. As I said above, if you really want to increase NO, get a PDE5 inhibitor.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=332329

;)

[Zachattack43]

NO2 is such a ripoff. Any PDE5 inhibitor(such as cialis and viagra) would be MUCH better at keeping NO raised for a bit.

Your body destroys the excess NO anyways, I don't have time to explain but will later. This stuff is crap.
so you saying we should go workout with a boner???

[thanatopsis]

I took the MRI NO2 at the recommended dosage for 8 months and I saw zero negative side effects. No "thickening of the skin" as mentioned in one post, and I certainly don't feel brain damaged -- I was maintaining a 4.0 for two consecutive semesters at the time. What sort of dosage was that study done in? Sorry if I missed it somewhere :)

[zuche]

ed byrds no2 is seriously overlooked
i just did pump tech and it was a complete crock

on no2 i got jacked as **** : D

[djenn2001]

Has anyone else experienced a leveling out of its effects? NOX3, 10 times the results? How about Pumptechs product?

[BIGDUBBDEISEL]

Can any of that help me grow taller from the gh?

[Zachattack43]

Can any of that help me grow taller from the gh?nope and there is not a supplement in this world that would help you with such. You are 15 ****ing years old, having some ****ing patience

[TheOMEGA]

:)

[Tian]

nope and there is not a supplement in this world that would help you with such. You are 15 ****ing years old, having some ****ing patience

Actually, that's not true. Some doctors now use HGH injections to encourage growth in kids who are below their "growth potential." And the carpal tunnel sydrome that results in adults taking large amounts of HGH is because the HGH causes their bones to start growing again.

Arginine is not a very good Growth hormone releaser. It takes about 15 grams per day to release GH. But that doesn't matter because short kids, if anything, don't have a problem releasing GH. If anything, short kids don't produce as much GH as taller kids. That's why HGH injections are used. It is adding more GH to the body.

In any case patience is good advice. Scottie Pippen was under 6 feet when he entered college and he left about 6'7".

[FEARandLOATHING]

Just buy regular vitamin shop brand argenine!! All the hype from these companies is just to make money. It's all B.S The supplement companies that practice deceptive advertisements, is the reason a lot of good ones catch so much hell.

[pu12en12g]

Update: Arginine alone does not stimulate growth hormone.. always add Lysine / Ornithine (?)



Oral arginine does not stimulate basal or augment exercise-induced GH secretion in either young or old adults.

Marcell TJ, Taaffe DR, Hawkins SA, Tarpenning KM, Pyka G, Kohlmeier L, Wiswell RA, Marcus R.

Department of Exercise Science, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, USA. marcellt@grc.nia.nih.gov

BACKGROUND: Growth hormone (GH) helps maintain body composition and metabolism in adults. However, basal and peak GH decline with age. Exercise produces a physiologic GH response that is subnormal in elderly people. Arginine (Arg) infusion can augment GH secretion, but the efficacy of oral Arg to improve GH response to exercise has not been explored. We investigated whether oral Arg increases GH secretion in young and old people at rest and during exercise.

METHODS: Twenty young (Y: 22.1 +/- 0.9 y; SEM) and 8 old (O: 68.5 +/- 2.1 y) male and female subjects underwent three different trials following determination of their one-repetition maximum strength (1-RM); exercise only (EO; 3 sets, 8-10 reps at 85% of 1-RM; on 12 separate resistive lifts), Arg only (5.0 g), or Arg + exercise. Blood samples were collected between successive lifts, and GH (ng x ml(-1)) was determined via RIA.

RESULTS: In Y vs O: Basal GH secreted (area under the curve) was 543.6 +/- 84.0 vs 211.5 +/- 63.0. During EO, values were 986.6 +/- 156.6 and 517.8 +/- 85.5. Both were significantly lower in the older individuals (p < .05). Oral Arg alone did not result in any increase in GH secretion at rest (310.8 +/- 73.2 vs 262.9 +/- 141.2). When Arg was coadministered during exercise, GH release was not affected in either the young or old and appeared to be blunted in the young compared to the exercise only trial in the young.

CONCLUSION: Based upon these findings, we concluded that oral Arg does not stimulate GH secretion and may impair GH release during resistive exercise.

J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 1999 Aug;54(8):M395-9.

[pu12en12g]

http://technologyorgasm.com/upload/nitricoxide.jpg

[pu12en12g]

Nobel committee says yes to 'NO'
The 1998 Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine

The Nobel Foundation recently announced its winner for the 1998 Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine. The prestigious honor goes this year to three Americans who independently made important contributions to the discovery that the gas nitric oxide (chemical formula NO) can act as a signaling molecule. Since its discovery, it has been found to play important roles in a variety physiological systems, including the nervous system where it can act as a second messenger, and as a neurotransmitter.

There is a bit of irony in the topic of the award this year. The Nobel Prize was created by Alfred Nobel who invented a process to stabilize nitroglycerine to form dynamite. Even in his day, it was known that small amounts of nitroglycerin would relieve angina heart pain through some undetermined mechanism. And, Nobel was himself treated with this compound for his heart condition. Now, about one century later, the award is being given for work that elucidated the mechanism by which nitroglycerine can relieve angina.

The discovery of NO as a signaling molecule

The work that eventually lead to the discovery of NO as a signaling molecule began with an investigation of drugs that caused relaxation or contraction of vascular smooth muscle. Initial experiments showed that acetylcholine caused a contraction of an isolated smooth muscle preparation made from aorta, the large artery that caries blood away from the heart. This was somewhat of a paradox since cholinergic drugs that act the same way as acetylcholine cause vasodilation (relaxation of the vascular smooth muscle) when given systemically.

Later experiments gave contradictory results, and further investigation led to the finding that if the epithelium associated with the vascular smooth muscle were intact, cholinergic drugs would cause relaxation of the smooth muscle, while in preparations where the epithelial cells were removed, it would cause contraction. This led to the conclusion that the epithelial cells released some chemical that caused the smooth muscle to relax and the search was on for this new compound, then called endothelium-derived relaxing factor (EDRF).

Around the same time, work was being done to determine how certain nitrogenous compounds, like nitroglycerine could affect vascular smooth muscle. This work showed that these compounds released NO, and that it was the NO that was effecting the relaxation of smooth muscle. This led to the hypothesis that EDRF could be NO, a hypothesis that was shortly confirmed. Later work found the synthetic enzyme that makes NO (nitric oxide synthase, or NOS) and its distribution throughout many tissues, including in the peripheral and central nervous systems.

NO in the brain

As a signaling molecule, NO is very unique. It is the first gas that has ever been shown to act as a signaling molecule. Furthermore, NO is a caustic component of diesel exhaust that is highly reactive (for example, white blood cells also create NO as one of the weapons they use to kill bacteria.) But NO was soon found to be involved in may physiological process, including penile erection; the drug Viagra works by exploiting a signaling pathway that uses NO.

To add to the surprise, an isoform of NOS that makes NO was found to be widely, but selectively distributed in the brain. This led to the idea that NO was acting as a neurotransmitter in the brain. Since then, scientists have learned that NO is involved in a number of neuronal functions including long-term potentiation (a cellular basis for learning), synapse formation, drug tolerance and dependence, modulation of sensory and motor pathways, local regulation of cerebral blood flow, neuroendocrine regulation, learning, and feeding and sexual behavior. I will deal more with the mechanism of NO action in the brain in a later feature article.

The Prize Recipients

Dr. Robert F. Furchgott
Ph.D. Biochemistry, Northwestern University,
Department of Pharmacology, SUNY Health Science Center

Dr. Furchgott studied the effects of various drugs on blood vessels. He found that in some cases, the same drug caused contradictory results. Work in his lab demonstrated that the different results depended on whether the epithelial lining of the blood vessels was intact and from this concluded the epithelial cells released some chemical that caused relaxation of the blood vessels. Much of his research efforts in the 1970's and 1980's were directed toward elucidating the nature of this compound, that he called endothelium-derived relaxing factor (EDRF), and that he later concluded was NO.

Dr. Louis J. Ignarro
Ph.D. Pharmacology, University of Minnesota
Department of Molecular and Medical Pharmacology, UCLA School of Medicine

Dr. Ignarro was also on the quest for the identity of ENDF. His laboratory independently, and simultaneously with Dr. Furchgott's demonstrated that ENDF was NO. Results from both labs were presented at the same scientific conference in July, 1986.

Dr. Freid Murad
M.D./Ph.D. Pharmacology, Western Reserve University
Department of Integritive Biology, Pharmacology, and Physiology, University of Texas Medical School at Huston.

Dr. Murad investigated the way that compounds like nitroglycerine cause vasodilation. In 1977, he discovered that these compounds release NO, and that this in turn was the factor that caused relaxation of the vascular smooth muscle. In 1977, he hypothesized that endogenous factors may also work through NO, and it was his work that paved the way for the research of Drs. Furchgott and Ignarro that demonstrated that endogenously released NO from epiltheial cells can effect vasodilation.

[pu12en12g]

Topical Aloe Vera: Wound healing properties because of Nitric Oxide ?

Activation of a mouse macrophage cell line by acemannan: the major carbohydrate fraction from Aloe vera gel.
Zhang L, Tizard IR.
Department of Veterinary Pathobiology, Texas A & M University College Station 77843, USA.

Acemannan is the name given to the major carbohydrate fraction obtained from the gel of the Aloe vera leaf. It has been claimed to have several important therapeutic properties including acceleration of wound healing, immune stimulation, anticancer and antiviral effects. However, the biological mechanisms of these activities are unclear. Because of this wide diversity of effects, it is believed that they may be exerted through pluripotent effector cells such as macrophages. The effects of acemannan on the mouse macrophage cell line, RAW 264.7 cells were therefore investigated. It was found that acemannan could stimulate macrophage cytokine production, nitric oxide release, surface molecule expression, and cell morphologic changes. The production of the cytokines IL6 and TNFalpha were dependent on the dose of acemannan provided. Nitric oxide production, cell morphologic changes and surface antigen expression were increased in response to stimulation by a mixture of acemannan and IFNgamma. These results suggest that acemannan may function, at least in part, through macrophage activation.


Acemannan, a beta(1,4)acetylated mannan, induces nitric oxide production in macrophage cell line RAW 264.7
Ramamoorthy L.; Kemp M.C.; Tizard I.R.
Dept. of Veterinary Pathobiology, Texas A and M University, College Station, TX 77843 USA
Molecular Pharmacology (USA) , 1996, 50/4 (878884)

Acemannan is a polydispersed beta(1,4)linked acetylated mannan with antiviral properties. It is an immunomodulator, and studies in our laboratory have shown that it causes activation of macrophages. Inducible NO synthase is generally expressed after transcriptional induction and is known to mediate some of the cytotoxic action of activated macrophages. Acemannan, in the presence of interferongamma, greatly increased the synthesis of NO in RAW 264.7 cells. This increase was preceded by increased expression of mRNA for the inducible form of macrophage NO synthase. Preincubation with pyrrolidine dithiocarbamate inhibited the induction, indicating the involvement of nuclear factorkappaB. These results suggest that acemannan causes the activation of macrophages by increasing the level of NO synthase at the level of transcription.


Nitric oxide production by chicken macrophages activated by Acemannan, a complex carebohydrate extracted from Aloe vera
Karaca K.; Sharma J.M.; Nordgren R.
University of Minnesota, College of Veterinary Medicine, Department of Pathobiology, St Paul, MN 55108 USA
International Journal of Immunopharmacology (United Kingdom) , 1995, 17/3 (183188)

Cultures of normal chicken spleen cells and HD11 line cells produce nitric oxide (NO) in response to Acemannan, a complex carbohydrate derived from the Aloe vera plant. Neither cell type produced detectable amounts of NO in response to similar concentrations of yeast mannan, another complex carbohydrate. Nitric oxide production was dose dependent and inhibitable by the nitric oxide synthase inhibitor N(G)methylLarginine. In addition, the production of NO was inhibited by preincubation of ACM with concanavalin A in a dose dependent manner. These results suggest that ACMinduced NO synthesis may be mediated through macrophage mannose receptors, and macrophage activation may be accouantable for some of the immunomodulatory effects of ACM in chickens.

[pu12en12g]

Update: Ornithine alone does not stimulate growth hormone either.. always add Arginine / Lysine (?)


In one double-blind, placebo-controlled study, a combination of 1 gram of arginine and 1 gram of ornithine daily, used in conjunction with a high-intensity strength-training program over a five-week period, increased total strength and lean body mass in adult males, compared with controls. Most trials using ornithine alone, however, have reported no significant anabolic effects. Most of these studies have failed to show that ornithine supplementation has any significant effect on insulin secretion or human growth hormone levels in bodybuilders. There is apparently only one study reporting that ornithine increased growth hormone levels in bodybuilders, and this study used a very high dose of the supplement (13 grams daily). Numerous gastrointestinal side effects were associated with this dosage.

[pu12en12g]

Dietary Arginine Supplementation Enhances the Growth of Milk-Fed Young Pigs

ABSTRACT

This study was conducted to determine the effect of dietary arginine supplementation on the growth of artificially reared piglets. The pigs were removed from sows to a nursery facility and assigned randomly to 1 of the 3 treatments representing diets supplemented with 0, 0.2, or 0.4% L-arginine (on the basis of milk replacer powder). Each milk feeder was assigned to 1 dietary treatment. Fresh liquid milk replacer (18.6% dry matter) was provided daily (0800 h) to piglets. Body weights of piglets were measured and jugular venous blood samples were obtained for metabolite analysis at d 7, 14, and 21 of age. Food intake did not differ between control and arginine-supplemented piglets [66.7 vs. 69.5 g dry matter/(kg body wt d)]. Compared with control piglets, dietary supplementation with 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine dose dependently increased (P  0.05) plasma concentrations of arginine by 30 and 61%, and decreased (P  0.05) plasma concentrations of ammonia by 20 and 35%, and those of urea by 19 and 33%, respectively. Dietary supplementation with 0.4% L-arginine also increased plasma concentrations of insulin and growth hormone by 24–27% in piglets, compared with controls.

Between 7 and 21 d of age, the supplementation of 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine to piglets enhanced (P  0.05) average daily weight gain by 28 and 66%, and body weight by 15 and 32%, respectively, compared with control piglets.

Plasma concentrations of orotate and glucose did not differ between control and arginine-supplemented piglets.

Compared with control pigs, dietary supplementation with 0.4% L-arginine increased plasma concentrations of insulin and growth hormone by 24–27%. Dietary supplementation with 0.2% L-arginine did not affect plasma concentrations of insulin and growth hormone during the 2-wk experimental period.

Arginine serves as the most abundant nitrogen carrier in body proteins (17) and takes part in multiple metabolic pathways (18). In addition, as the physiologic nitrogenous precursor for the synthesis of nitric oxide (the endothelium-derived relaxing factor, a neurotransmitter, a mediator of immune response, and a signaling molecule), arginine plays an important role in whole-body homeostasis (21).

Paradoxically, in neonatal pigs, intestinal synthesis of citrulline and arginine from glutamine/glutamate and proline (abundant amino acids in sow’s milk) decreases markedly within the first 3 wk of life via unknown mechanisms (8,14).

Intriguingly, a substantial decrease in arginine availability occurs around the time (d 8 of life) (9) when suckling piglets start to exhibit submaximal growth (1).

Plasma concentrations of arginine and ammonia are sensitive indicators of arginine nutritional status in neonatal pigs (22) and human infants (23,24). As an allosteric activator of N-acetylglutamate synthase, which synthesizes N-acetylglutamate, an activator of carbamoylphosphate synthase I, arginine
plays a crucial role in ammonia detoxification via the hepatic urea cycle (25). Thus, a hallmark of arginine deficiency is an elevated concentration of plasma ammonia in mammals (22– 24). Consistent with this, plasma concentrations of ammonia were greater in 14- and 21-d-old control pigs than in 7-d-old
pigs, but were decreased by dietary supplementation with 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine.

Although milk-fed piglets continue to grow, this does not necessarily mean that their growth is maximal, as exemplified by submaximal growth and impaired nitric oxide synthesis in arginine-deficient young rats (28).

There is experimental evidence supporting the view that a decrease in arginine availability may limit maximal growth in young pigs. For example, Leibholz (11) reported that in early weaned piglets, supplementing 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine to a milk-protein–based powder diet (containing 19.2% crude protein) numerically improved weight gain between d 7 and 14 of life compared with control piglets. However, that study involved a small number of piglets (n * 4/treatment group) and the data were not subjected to statistical analysis (11).

Importantly, dietary supplementation with 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine dose dependently increased plasma concentrations of arginine and the body weight gain of piglets. It is noteworthy that plasma concentrations of lysine and histidine were not affected by dietary supplementation with 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine, suggesting a lack of either an antagonism or an imbalance among the basic amino acids.

The ratios of lysine:arginine:histidine (g:g:g) in the milk replacer diets supplemented with 0, 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine were:

1:0.346:0.221
1:0.449:0.221
1:0.552:0.221

which would not be expected to impair intestinal absorption of lysine or histidine (30). Thus, supplementing the liquid milk replacer with 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine ensured its continuous availability to piglets without affecting lysine and histidine utilization. Because dietary intake of all nutrients (including protein, fat, carbohydrates, vitamins, and minerals), except for arginine, did not differ between control and arginine-supplemented piglets, the enhanced growth of piglets in response to arginine supplementation was attributed to the increase in arginine availability.

Arginine is a potent stimulator of the secretion of insulin by pancreatic -cells and of growth hormone by the anterior pituitary gland in mammals (33), including young pigs (34).

Through an increase in arginine availability as well as the concurrent increases in plasma concentrations of anabolic hormones, dietary arginine supplementation improved the efficiency of nutrient utilization for enhancing tissue protein synthesis and growth performance.

Although arginine was identified 50 years ago as an essential amino acid for young pigs (35), and it displays remarkable metabolic and regulatory versatility (36,37), it is surprising that little is known about its quantitative requirements in neonates (including milk-fed piglets) (38).

In conclusion, dietary supplementation with 0.2 and 0.4% L-arginine to milk-fed young piglets dose dependently increases plasma concentration of arginine, decreases plasma concentration of ammonia, and promotes growth performance. Importantly, increasing arginine availability holds great promise as a potent method for enhancing neonatal piglet growth.

:cool:

[Gorillatrain]

the best NO product is Nitrix by the same company that makes no-xplode and cellmass that gave me a better pump then NO2 and NOx2 and kicked in after about 4 or 5 days NO2 says it works after about three in the book that comes with it but that's not the case, at least for me it wasn't. Also after taking NO2 and coming off of it i, as well as several of my friends who were taking it all agreed that while on it you have great erections but when you come off it, it was extrmeely hard to keep it up, this however was not the case with the nitrix as i continued to have the same fullness and was much appreciated by the misses i would definitly reccomnd the nitrix over anything else and for best results stack with no-xplode that honestly is the best legal stak you can probably take i've had amazing gains with them. good luck and train harder

[pu12en12g]

Update: When is the best time to take l-arginine ?



Following ingestion, L-arginine is absorbed from the lumen of the small intestine into the enterocytes. Absorption is efficient and occurs by an active transport mechanism. Some metabolism of L-arginine takes place in the enterocytes. L-arginine not metabolized in the enterocytes enters the portal circulation from whence it is transported to the liver, where again some portion of the amino acid is metabolized. L-arginine not metabolized in the liver enters the systemic circulation, where it is distributed to the various tissues of the body. L-arginine participates in various metabolic activities, including the production of proteins, D-glucose, glycogen, L-ornithine, urea, nitric oxide, L-glutamate, creatine, polyamines, L-proline, agmatin and tuftsin. L-arginine is eliminated by glomerular filtration and is almost completely reabsorbed by the renal tubules. L-arginine produces peak plasma levels approximately one to two hours after oral administration.

[pu12en12g]

Arginine Pyroglutamate


L-Arginine Pyroglutamate- Arginine has been proven to increase hGH release by stimulating somatocrinin production. All studies showing increased hGH release from arginine were done injected arginine indicating the need for large amounts of arginine to reach the blood stream and showing the low bioavailability of orally ingested arginine. The human body cannot handle a dose of Arginine at 40 to 60 grams needed to produce the 15 gram injected hGH releasing results.

When L-Arginine is attached to L-Pyrogluatamic acid it is called L-Arginine pyroglutamate. This bond also allows Arginine to be absorbed nearly 10X more effectively into the blood stream when taken orally over Arginine base, or Arginine HCL. The Arginine Pyroglutamate is carried to the brain where the Pyroglutamate is used to make the receptors more responsive to acetylcholine, and the arginine is released for the Pyroglutamate bond to increase acetylcholine levels (helping arginine release growth hormone) and provide the raw materials needed for nNOS in the brain and eNOS in the muscle cells.

Arginine serves as the raw material for the Nitric Oxide Synthase enzyme, a process which transforms arginine into nitric oxide (NO). When Arginine is ingested, NOS (Nitric Oxide Synthase) has the raw materials to increase NO levels. Time releasing Arginine makes this process possible for several hours v/s a few seconds. Ingesting arginine in any amount will not stimulate NOS over a few seconds. Some products provide time released Arginine, but you will not receive a rapid Nitric Oxide induced sustained pump without a catalyst and time-released arginine used together. "

[pu12en12g]

Dietary L-Arginine Supplementation Improves the Glomerular Filtration Rate and Renal Blood Flow After 24 Hours of Unilateral Ureteral Obstruction in Rats.

Ito K, Chen J, Vaughan ED Jr, Seshan SV, Poppas DP, Felsen D.

SUMMARY: PURPOSE Unilateral ureteral obstruction (UUO) results in a significant change in renal blood flow (RBF) and glomerular filtration rate (GFR) by 24 hours. The intake of L-arginine, a substrate of nitric oxide (NO) synthase (NOS), can augment NO production. NO can maintain renal function through its vasodilatory action. Therefore, we examined the effect of dietary arginine supplementation on renal function in UUO.

MATERIALS AND METHODS GFR and RBF were measured by inulin and para-aminohippurate clearance, respectively, in control rats and in rats 24 hours after UUO. Rats were given arginine with or without the concomitant administration of N-nitro-L-arginine methyl ester. Urinary nitrate/nitrite (NO2/NO3) was measured by the Griess reaction and urinary cyclic guanosine monophosphate was determined by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay. The expression of renal inducible NOS was determined by immunohistochemistry.

RESULTS Urinary NO2/NO3 was significantly increased after 2 weeks of arginine, confirming increased NO production. In control rats GFR and RBF were not significantly different in untreated vs arginine treated groups. In contrast, arginine treatment significantly increased GFR in the obstructed kidney (0.06 +/- 0.01 to 0.14 +/- 0.02 ml per minute per 100 gm) and the contralateral kidney compared with control UUO. RBF was also significantly increased by arginine. The increases in renal function with arginine were blunted by a NOS inhibitor in obstructed and contralateral kidneys. Inducible NOS expression was increased in obstructed and contralateral kidneys.

CONCLUSIONS This study demonstrates that L-arginine supplementation can improve renal function in acute UUO. This finding suggests that NO system may be a future site of pharmacological intervention for UUO.

PMID: 14713855 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]


The influence of two different doses of L-arginine oral supplementation on nitric oxide (NO) concentration and total antioxidant status (TAS) in atherosclerotic patients.

Jablecka A, Checinski P, Krauss H, Micker M, Ast J.

Department of Clinical Pharmacology, Karol Marcinkowski Medical University, Poznan, Poland.

BACKGROUND: The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of two different doses in 28-day L-arginine oral supplementation on nitric oxide (NO) concentration and total antioxidant status (TAS) in patients with atherosclerotic peripheral arterial disease at Fontaine's stages II and III.

MATERIAL/METHODS: 32 patients were divided into 2 groups receiving L-arginine at 3i2 g/day (group A) or 3i4 g/day (group B). Nitric oxide concentration was determined with the testing set provided by Oxis using a Hyperion Micro Reader. Total antioxidant status (TAS) in mmol/l was established in serum with the RANDOX NX2332 test.

RESULTS: Group A showed substantially higher NO levels after 14 and 28 days of therapy. In group B, the NO level increase was substantial after 28 days. Noticeably higher total antioxidant statuses were noted in both groups: group A showed this only after 28 days of treatment, while group B exhibited substantial increase in TAS after 7, 14 and 28 days of L-arginine supplementation.

CONCLUSIONS: Oral supplementation of L-arginine for 28 days leads to substantial increases in NO and TAS levels (comparable in both groups of patients) in the blood of patients with atherosclerotic peripheral arterial disease at Fontaine's stages II and III. The TAS concentration rise points to an antioxidative effect of L-arginine oral supplementation.

PMID: 14704633 [PubMed - in process]

:cool:

[pu12en12g]

Nitric Oxide Metabolism


Nitric oxide (NO) is as a major signaling molecule in neurons and in the immune system, either acting within the cell in which it is produced or by penetrating cell membranes to affect adjacent cells. Nitric oxide is generated from arginine by the action of nitric oxide synthase (NOS). NO has a half-life of only a few seconds in vivo . However, since it is soluble in both aqueous and lipid media, it readily diffuses through the cytoplasm and plasma membranes. NO has effects on neuronal transmission as well as on synaptic plasticity in the central nervous system. In the vasculature, NO reacts with iron in the active site of the enzyme guanylyl cyclase (GC), stimulating it to produce the intracellular mediator cyclic GMP (cGMP), that in turn enhances the release of neurotransmitters resulting in smooth muscle relaxation and vasodilation. NO may also be involved in the regulation of protein activity through S-nitrosylation. In the extracellular milieu, NO reacts with oxygen and water to form nitrates and nitrites. NO toxicity is linked to its ability to combine with superoxide anions (O2-) to form peroxynitrite (ONOO-), an oxidizing free radical that can cause DNA fragmentation and lipid oxidation. In the mitochondria, ONOO- acts on the respiratory chain (I-IV) complex and manganese superoxide dismutase (MnSOD), to generate superoxide anions and hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), respectively

Brown, G.C., Nitric oxide and mitochondrial respiration. Biochim. Biophys. Acta., 1411, 351-369 (1999).

Lipton, S.A., Neuronal protection and destruction by NO. Cell Death Differ., 6, 943-951 (1999).

[pu12en12g]

Nitric Oxide increases glucose transport in skeletal muscle


Evidence that nitric oxide increases glucose transport in skeletal muscle. J. Appl. Physiol. 82(1): 359-363, 1997.

These observations suggest: (a) that IGF-I increases blood flow through a nitric oxide-dependent mechanism; (b) that total blood flow does not affect the insulinlike response of muscle to IGF-I; and (c) that nitric oxide may be required for the protein synthetic (growth hormone- like) response of muscle to IGF-I.

(J. Clin. Invest. 1996. 97: 1319-1328.)


Enhanced vascularity ?


Arginine (2-amino-5-guanidinovaleric acid) is regarded as a conditionally essential amino acid, meaning that under certain conditions (e.g., immunological stress, trauma, etc.) it may be required in the diet.

Arginine has been taken by bodybuilders and similarly focused athletes in order to enhance nitric oxide (NO2) production in skeletal muscle. Arginine may be converted into NO2 via a family of enzymes known as nitric oxide synthases. These enzymes require various co-factors, including folic acid.

NO2 regulates vessels controlling blood flow to your muscles. It is also believed to be involved in the muscle-building process itself (Smith et al., 2002).

-Arginine is the precursor to NO (Moncada and Higgs, 1993)

-Arginine improves insulin sensitivity in healthy persons (Wascher et al., 1997)

-Addition of arginine to the diet reverses the gain in body fat caused by inhibition of nitric oxide synthase activity (Khedara et al., 1999)

-Arginine is the only amino acid that can provide the guanidino groups that are essential for creatine biosynthesis (Foster et al., 1939)

-the urea cycle, of which arginine is an essential component, is the major pathway of ammonia excretion in humans; high-protein diets therefore increase demand placed on this pathway and arginine supply

-supplemental arginine given to healthy young males on high-protein diets has anabolic and diuretic effects (Beaumier et al., 1995)

-In 1939, Foster and co-workers demonstrated that arginine plays a key role in the creatine biosynthetic pathway showed that arginine was used in the biosynthesis of creatine.

-Elevations in plasma ammonia (NH3) levels caused by high-protein/inadequate arginine intake suppresses methylation activity in the liver and transamidination activity in kidney both of which constitute the pathway for creatine synthesis (Deshmukh et al., 1991). The result can be an impairment of creatine production and nitrogen balance.

Arginine Improves Nitrogen Balance in Healthy Men

For seven days, Beaumier et al. (1995) fed healthy young adult males energy-balanced diets characterized by either normal (56.1 mg/kg/day) or arginine-supplemented (561 mg/kg/day) status. The arginine-supplemented group experienced lost weight, which was attributed to sodium and water loss, possibly due to reduced tubular reabsorption of these two compounds. Despite the fact that the nitrogen intake was the same for both groups, the arginine-supplemented group demonstrated an increase in nitrogen retention. These data are suggestive of yet further benefits for bodybuilders increased anabolism with decreased retention of sodium and water, i.e., a more muscular physique.

Cynober et al. (1996) summarizes the clinical applications of arginine:In septic rats, arginine- enriched nutrition (either enteral or parenteral) improves nitrogen balance and total body and liver protein synthesis. In addition, arginine stimulates growth hormone and insulin secretion. The most remarkable action of arginine is certainly that exerted on cellular immunity. This action concerns thymus and extra-thymus areas. Finally, arginine favours wound healing improves host defenses in cancer and slows tumour growth. The pharmacological action of arginine probably depends upon various mechanisms: its action on immunity may be mediated by the synthesis of nitric oxide and polyamines (via ornithine synthesis). The effect on wound healing may be related to proline synthesis. The effects on nitrogen metabolism may be linked to growth hormone secretion. These observations form the rationale for the administration of arginine- enriched diets to injured patients.

[pu12en12g]

Update: Topical NO2 as a hairloss/impotence treatment:
US Patent # 6,458,841

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=406442

[DevilSmack]

NO2 is not the best bro, some ppl think so, but i have tried 3 bottles of it and it doesnt even compare to Syntrax's Nitrous, but then again results vary by user

Like you said, results vary by user, because my experience with NoX2 by Pinnacle was far superior to Syntrax's Nitrous. Also, I tried bulk AAKG powder at 10g doses twice a day and it totally sucked, not even close to the No2 tablet supps.

[pu12en12g]

This is definately worth the read:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/south28.htm

[pu12en12g]

Update: The carnosine / nitric oxide connection


Carnosine is in fact the real substrate for NOS (nitric oxide synthase) activity, which is the enzyme that is responsible for generating Nitric Oxide. Carnosine also has a long list of benefits.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/carnosine.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/lcarno.html

[MyTMouse]

some people claim that adding Lysine to Ornithine and Arginine gives them great results. i've never tried it myself.

I pretty much think that the combo of Creatine and Protein is gods gift to bodybuilding.

[PowerSwede]

some people claim that adding Lysine to Ornithine and Arginine gives them great results. i've never tried it myself.

I pretty much think that the combo of Creatine and Protein is gods gift to bodybuilding.

I pretty much think you're right. ;)

[jp6191]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
L-arginine, when administered in high doses, stimulates pituitary release of growth hormone and prolactin and pancreatic release of glucagon and insulin.


...seems like you can find a study to support anything increasing GH. Next users who watch TV for 3 hours a day while eating gold fish crackers showed 200 percent increase in GH production


PU where did you get this from- what did they consider a high dose.

Instead of NItrix Rock.... Pump tech rules Id be more interested on comments on this prolactin / Testosterone reduction. Seems to me the a massive pumps in the gym isnt really worth the negatives.

[not_big_enuf]

actually, McDonald's BigMac's actually support increased GH levels. it's a killer stack

[PowerSwede]

Originally posted by pu12en12g
L-arginine, when administered in high doses, stimulates pituitary release of growth hormone and prolactin and pancreatic release of glucagon and insulin.


...seems like you can find a study to support anything increasing GH. Next users who watch TV for 3 hours a day while eating gold fish crackers showed 200 percent increase in GH production


PU where did you get this from- what did they consider a high dose.

Instead of NItrix Rock.... Pump tech rules Id be more interested on comments on this prolactin / Testosterone reduction. Seems to me the a massive pumps in the gym isnt really worth the negatives.

It is VERY old news that Arginine and Ornithine taken together raise HGH levels, flip through a magazine from the early 90's and you'll see hundreds of ads for the "HGH complex" the recommendation was to stack it with the "Legal Sterol Complex".

I'd say that 99.9% of all people who tried it back then gave it up because it didn't produce any real world results.

Much like glutamine, arginine and ornithine are really only interesting for people who suffer from trauma where their own production can't keep up with the bodys need for it.

[yeahimnick]

Thats the main ingridient in any of these muscle pump supplements. It also causes herpes breakouts. Be careful

Herpes is a virus you dumb c u n t

______________________

As previously stated, prolactin levels are rasied as well on NO2, cause a decrease on testosterone and lower sperm count. Any studies showing how much is decreased, and what amount does this?

[BackInTheJox]

Herpes is a virus you dumb c u n t



Jesus, are you a moron?

Duh it's a virus, but it may lie dormant in individuals who have it but do not exhibit overt symptoms. Arginine reportedly has the ability to cause these symptoms to show up. In other words, causes the latent herpes virus to materialize itself as herpes on the skin.

So before you go calling someone names, try to not be wrong. Idiot.

[yeahimnick]

Jesus, are you a moron?

Duh it's a virus, but it may lie dormant in individuals who have it but do not exhibit overt symptoms. Arginine reportedly has the ability to cause these symptoms to show up. In other words, causes the latent herpes virus to materialize itself as herpes on the skin.

So before you go calling someone names, try to not be wrong. Idiot.

Listen up dumbass. The clown said it causes herpes breakouts. In no way, shape or form did he say "..but it may lie dormant in individuals who have it but do not exhibit overt symptoms...and will cause symptoms to show up." No, he said it CAUSES HERPES BREAKOUTS. Now go run your mouth somewhere else.

[BackInTheJox]

Listen up dumbass. The clown said it causes herpes breakouts. In no way, shape or form did he say "..but it may lie dormant in individuals who have it but do not exhibit overt symptoms...and will cause symptoms to show up." No, he said it CAUSES HERPES BREAKOUTS. Now go run your mouth somewhere else.



Exactly, he said BREAKOUTS, which is what I described. He was correct. Just because you don't know the definition to a word doesn't give you the right to inaccurately accuse him of being wrong.

If you can't realize how wrong you are, perhaps you should take a nap and maybe when you wake up, it'll be time for finger paints, and you'll forget all about this nightmare of yours.

If there's one thing that gets to me, it's illiterate ignorant ****s like you.

[BackInTheJox]

And since your neanderthal-like demeanor obviously doesn't lend itself to the likelihood that you own, let alone know how to operate a dictionary, let me help you out:

break·out Pronunciation Key (brkout)
2. A sudden manifestation or increase, as of a disease; an outbreak.


Now please, take a nap, you've been way too cranky.

[yeahimnick]

Wow. You have the nerve to call me immature and you're the one who comes in and starts immediatley bitching and trying to sound like your a friggin genious.

Again, I'll post his message to you "Thats the main ingridient in any of these muscle pump supplements. It also causes herpes breakouts. Be careful"

And AGAIN, HE DID NOT SAY " ...but it may lie dormant in individuals who have it but do not exhibit overt symptoms. Arginine reportedly has the ability to cause these symptoms to show up. In other words, causes the latent herpes virus to materialize itself as herpes on the skin." I WAS RESPONDING TO THE GUY WHO SAID IT CAUSES HERPES BREAKOUTS BECAUSE IT SOUNDED LIKE HE WAS JUST TRYING TO BE AN IDIOT. IT NO WAY SHAPE, OR FORM DID HE SAY IT COULD CAUSE PEOPLE WITH THE ****IN VIRUS TO GET A BREAKOUT. NO, HE DID NOT. AND I'M "CRANKY" BECAUSE OF ARROGANT PRESUMPTUOS JACKASSES LIKE YOU.
.

[BackInTheJox]

Wow. You have the nerve to call me immature and you're the one who comes in and starts immediatley bitching and trying to sound like your a friggin genious.

Again, I'll post his message to you "Thats the main ingridient in any of these muscle pump supplements. It also causes herpes breakouts. Be careful"

And AGAIN, HE DID NOT SAY " ...but it may lie dormant in individuals who have it but do not exhibit overt symptoms. Arginine reportedly has the ability to cause these symptoms to show up. In other words, causes the latent herpes virus to materialize itself as herpes on the skin." I WAS RESPONDING TO THE GUY WHO SAID IT CAUSES HERPES BREAKOUTS BECAUSE IT SOUNDED LIKE HE WAS JUST TRYING TO BE AN IDIOT. IT NO WAY SHAPE, OR FORM DID HE SAY IT COULD CAUSE PEOPLE WITH THE ****IN VIRUS TO GET A BREAKOUT. NO, HE DID NOT. AND I'M "CRANKY" BECAUSE OF ARROGANT PRESUMPTUOS JACKASSES LIKE YOU.




You still don't get it do you? For some godforsaken reason, you don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "breakout", even though I gave you the definition.

What the original poster said about breakouts, regardless of his intentions, was correct.

[yeahimnick]

Just a quick question there Albert, Can you have a BREAKOUT if you do not have the Herpes virus?

[BackInTheJox]

Just a quick question there Albert, Can you have a BREAKOUT if you do not have the Herpes virus?



Um, I'm not sure who you're referring to, but I'll answer anyway.


Yes, you can, and you can have a BREAKOUT if you DO have the virus. The term is correct for both situations. Go back and read the definition I gave you.

[yeahimnick]

Um, I'm not sure who you're referring to, but I'll answer anyway.


Yes, you can, and you can have a BREAKOUT if you DO have the virus. The term is correct for both situations. Go back and read the definition I gave you.


Albert Einstein... Incredible math ability, stange hair.. Know him?

Ohhh so you can have a herpes breakout, w/o the virus?

[yeahimnick]

My god Albert has just dicovered a break-thru that will change medical science as we know it! We previously thought before that you can't breakout with a virus, unless your infected with it. But stunning news from BackInTheJox reveals you CAN! Let's take a look at this stunning news!




Um, I'm not sure who you're referring to, but I'll answer anyway.


Yes, you can, and you can have a BREAKOUT if you DO have the virus. The term is correct for both situations. Go back and read the definition I gave you.


Stunning. Simply, stunning.

[BackInTheJox]

My god Albert has just dicovered a break-thru that will change medical science as we know it! We previously thought before that you can't breakout with a virus, unless your infected with it. But stunning news from BackInTheJox reveals you CAN! Let's take a look at this stunning news!



Stunning. Simply, stunning.



What in God's name are you talking about?


Are you seriously that mentally deficient?


Read the definition. A breakout in a disease can be said to occur when A) a dormant form of a disease that someone has contracted begins to exhibit visible symptoms (or has in the past, and does so again), or B) when someone who did not have the disease previously is suddenly infected with it.

I am deeply sorry that you are unable to understand simple concepts, and instead would rather trumpet around like a six year old girl making crazy straw man arguments that make no sense than admit you were wrong.

Grow up.

[yeahimnick]

What in God's name are you talking about?


Are you seriously that mentally deficient?


Read the definition. A breakout in a disease can be said to occur when A) a dormant form of a disease that someone has contracted begins to exhibit visible symptoms (or has in the past, and does so again), or B) when someone who did not have the disease previously is suddenly infected with it.

I am deeply sorry that you are unable to understand simple concepts, and instead would rather trumpet around like a six year old girl making crazy straw man arguments that make no sense than admit you were wrong.

Grow up.

Are you listening to me? I asked if someone WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE VIRUS I.E IT IS NOT DORMANT, OR PREVIOUSLY INFECTED, can have breakouts of herpes and you said yes. End of story.

[yeahimnick]

I don't even care anymore. I wasn't trying to start things and you blew this crap way out of proportion. All I said was you cant have a herpes outbreak when you dont have the virus. End of story.

[BackInTheJox]

I don't even care anymore. I wasn't trying to start things and you blew this crap way out of proportion. All I said was you cant have a herpes outbreak when you dont have the virus. End of story.



I forgive you.


Now let's get this thread back on track.

I've found that simple supplementation of 3g L-Arginine leads to some really crazy vasculature/"pumps" in my workouts. For me (I know everyone is different), you'd have a hard time convincing me to shell out money for more pricy "NO" products. Arginine does the job nicely for me.

Not that a "pump" really does anything beneficial anyway. Just kind of a novelty.

[ifyour555im666]

i'm confused!!

so no2 will give me STDs????





why would someone even ask that question? if you don't have it of course it won't give it to you

[PowerSwede]

i'm confused!!

so no2 will give me STDs????





why would someone even ask that question? if you don't have it of course it won't give it to you

No, the point that backinthejox is trying to make is that herpes is a very common disease, many people have it without knowing it, if you do arginine can cause an outbreak.

If you don't have the virus, you don't have to worry though.

[ifyour555im666]

i realize that. i just don't see what the arguing is about. of course if you don't have it its not going to give it to you

[yeahimnick]

i realize that. i just don't see what the arguing is about. of course if you don't have it its not going to give it to you

That's good you dont understand because you werent involved with the conversation...

Anyway, so how long does the "pump" from taking regular l-arginine last compared to a name brand that has many other pricey additives?

[PowerSwede]

i realize that. i just don't see what the arguing is about. of course if you don't have it its not going to give it to you

Nobody thinks it will, it's just that yeahimnick feels like a big man if he can use some cusswords and act like he actually knows anything.

[yeahimnick]

Nobody thinks it will, it's just that yeahimnick feels like a big man if he can use some cusswords and act like he actually knows anything.

Haha. You've got a problem with letting things go...

[pu12en12g]

how long does the "pump" from taking regular l-arginine last compared to a name brand that has many other pricey additives?

Many variables:

- Weight
- Dosage
- Diet
- Water intake

^^ Just to name a few..

[Pat Bateman]

bump

[yeahimnick]

Many variables:

- Weight
- Dosage
- Diet
- Water intake

^^ Just to name a few..

170 lbs
3 g daily
4/4/1 pro, carb, fat
120 oz daily

[Reano]

Most of the posts I've read make many assertions, but not much else. If someone is going to rip a supplement, then they should also detail how they altered their diet, training, and rest. You simply can't take a supplement and wait for magic muscles to appear. How did you adapt to the supplement? If you were taking AAS, would you alter your diet and training program? Of course. So, unless you do likewise for a supplement, it is simply unfair to denounce same. To do so is simply making a wish, not making a fair trial.

[pu12en12g]

Most of the posts I've read make many assertions, but not much else....

Try reading the studies on the first several pages.

[funkadooroo]

well that would be 3 grams a day, I think you need a higher dose.

Are we all overlooking what pu12en12g posted:

"In males, prolactin influences the production of testosterone and affects sperm production. In conditions where prolactin secretion is increased (hyperprolactinaemia), testosterone levels drop and sperm production is reduced or absent, resulting in male infertility. <----- Very interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on this ?"

AM I NOT READING THIS RIGHT? So all these N02 products which get some much hype and arginine contribute to testosterone drop and infertility?



Anyone?

[Phosphate bond]

[b]

"[O]rally administered arginine hydrochloride certainly has anabolic effects by increasing insulin secretion.

Oversecretion of insulin is not anabolic in a bodybuilding sense if you look at the big picture. (hint: cortisol). The lowest possible amount of insulin neccessary for blood sugar control is very anabolic and has no negatives I can think of.

If arginine results in oversecretion of insulin then it is a bad thing. In fact people prone to type II diabetes are characterized by a late insulin response to a glucose load that is excessive and this is where their problems begin (it's a domino effect) Because the insulin response comes late it results in oversecretion with obvious fat storage and hypoglycemia. Hypoglycemia results in cortisol secretion which has obvious negative effects on your physique. [high does corticosteriods that mimick cortisol will cause weight gain, but this is not desirable weight gain. In combination with the extra fat storage doesn't make me doubt the article's claim of weight gain for the convalescent patients you mentioned in your post)

Not to mention oversecreting insulin downregulates insulin receptors and forces the pancreas to secrete even more insulin the next time.

The healthiest people are characterized by very prompt insulin secretion to any rise in glucose. Since control comes quickly less total insulin can be secreted and fat storage is minimized and possibly even totally avoided if meal is small enough and muscle cells are sensitized with exercise. These people also don't have the fat depositing/muscle wasting cortisol problem that comes with too much insulin secreted. They also have higher "free" testosterone becasue they don't have hyperinsulnemia stimulating sex hormone binding globulin in the liver which reduces biologically active testesterone.

Really the best way to get glucose into muscle cells is the non-insulin mediated pathway that is stimulated by intense contractions (weight lifting). There is a glucose transpoter that gets put on the surface to grab blood sugar after a result of exercise that doesn't need insulin. This way you can keep your muscle cells insulin receptors fresh so after a meal more of what you ate goes to the muscle rather than adipocytes.

I'll have to brush up on my endocrinology, but I'm pretty sure Prolactin is not good to have high amounts of. It inhibits thyriod function I'm pretty sure in addition to testosterone production.

I do know that low dopamine is the cause of high prolactin secretion because dopamine drugs (bromocriptine) are given to treat the condition. Dopamine tonically inhints Prolactin release.

Damn, if arginine interfers with dopamine somehow that is not a good thing. For anyone seriosly interested do a Pubmed search to see what has been discovered.

[Sensual Lettuce]

how much arginine is in no-xplode?