Pre-Contest Prep. GURU recommendations;

[Blahzay128]

What's up guys....I'm getting ready to begin my pre-contest diet for a natty show on October 27...I want to start ASAP so that I get a good 6 months of dieting so that I can do it sloooowwwllly and to also get as LEAN as possible.

Last year I used Todd Ganci for my prep http://www.professionaldiets.com/. He was very effective as I feel I went a long way...This time around, I am looking to use someone different...no offense to Todd (He actually does work for Jay Cutler...and Cutler gives him credit often..check Flex a few months ago).

I'm looking for your suggestions for someone to use...obviously someone w/ great knowledge and EXPERIENCE in doing this....I am very serious about this and obviously will be shelling out $$ so I want it to be worthwhile...to me worthwhile means standing on stage 6 months from now completely shredded :)

So far I am considering

-Layne Norton
-Dr. Joe Klem.

Please give your thoughts as I will be making a decision by tomorrow!

Thanks!!!

Gianni

[Power-Quest]

Layne gets my vote , he knows his stuff.

[Fjock]

Good luck to you on your show and finding the help you seek. Do you mind posting stats? I ask because 6 months seems like an awful long time for you to diet for 1 show. I know you want to lose it slowly, but 1/2 a year of contest prep?

I get excited when competition season comes around and want to start a little early sometimes but with 6 months ahead of you, you should really use those 2-3 extra months to add some quality mass before you begin to cut IMO.

your profile says you are 149lbs, theres no way you should need that much time to get shredded

[Blahzay128]

p-quest: yeah layne is def a major consideration...btw, how is your prep going??

*** i know 6 months seems like a long time....but in order for me to be where i want to be i think 6 months is neccesary....last yr i dieted for 4 months and while i think i looked good...i was not my best....as far as my weight...149 was my contest weight....i'm 178 right now....im hoping to weigh around the same but obviously better conditioning....however, once i employ the assistance of someone, i'll let them dictate where my cals are..thanks 4 the help so far guys!!!

[Blahzay128]

f-jock- just took a look at some of you pics....phenomenol physique!!! do you have someone who handles your diet/training?

[Quelly]

both of the options you are looking at are solid, everything I've read and been told by both of them is scientifically sound, tried and proven by natural competitors, and amazingly....they follow a lot of the same methods, so I would say whichever offers you the better deal lol

[latinmuscle]

layne knows his stuff. working with him now will be looking for a show next year.

[Fjock]

f-jock- just took a look at some of you pics....phenomenol physique!!! do you have someone who handles your diet/training?

Last year I was lucky enough to become friends with a national level bodybuilder who placed 5th place in the heavyweight divison at the 2005 nationals. I was a bouncer with him. He pretty much taught me everything i know about pre contest dieting. Im currently using the same strategy as last year with a few minor adjustments. Plus im sticking to the diet much better this year ( less cheating). So i hope to do well come may 19th in my first heavyweight mens show. Its a national qualifier =)

[NaturaLPumP]

Sounds like your on the right track. But 6 months of strict dieting, how much weight you gotta lose bro ?

[Ivan25]

6 months is too long... Way too long...

[semper27]

The length of the diet depends on a few different factors.... The main one being how much you need to lose and how much you plan on losing per week. I've been working with Layne Norton and must say his knowledge is very effective if you are serious about getting shredded to the bone. Layne is always quick to answer any and all questions. Also, a Natty Pro in 2 organizations. I'm currently 12 days out from a show and completely astounded with my personal results. I've been prepping for around 19 weeks, so it'll be about 21 when it's all said and done. Slow and steady,to retain as much muscle as possible. I have a blog on this forum titled "50 Days Out". You will be ready for battle under Layne's guidance. I definately have learned a ton about my body along the way. Best of luck and enjoy your prep !!!

[Power-Quest]

p-quest: yeah layne is def a major consideration...btw, how is your prep going??

*** i know 6 months seems like a long time....but in order for me to be where i want to be i think 6 months is neccesary....last yr i dieted for 4 months and while i think i looked good...i was not my best....as far as my weight...149 was my contest weight....i'm 178 right now....im hoping to weigh around the same but obviously better conditioning....however, once i employ the assistance of someone, i'll let them dictate where my cals are..thanks 4 the help so far guys!!!

I'm 4 weeks 5 days out now and my prep is going good , i'm really cranking things up now , can't wait to eat :) , Thanks for asking , ill post up 4 week and 2 week pics and ofcourse show day vid and pics.

I started this years diet at 6 months just cleaning it up a bit to shed fat untill i was 12 weeks out then got very strict , 4 weeks will be even more strict , i was 225 lbs. now i am 185 to 190 lbs. and have kept all my muscle so far , shooting for 176 or less show day.

Remember no matter who you go with it will all boil down to your dedication that will make the diffrence.

Rob.

[str8flexed]

6 months is too long... Way too long...

why

[Ivan25]

Two reasons...

1) Implication of being too out-of-shape off-season... In other words, you had too much body fat to lose.. And sure I get the logic of slow losing, equates to less muscle loss... But as you wrote in your article on precontest prep, the time is based on how much weight one has to lose AND bodytype... 6 months x 4 weeks/month = 24 weeks out??? Way too long... Too draining psychologically and physiologically IMO...

2) I believe optimal precontest prep time is anywhere from 10-14 weeks out... This is my high-low depending on off-season condition.. And the implication here is that one remains in good enough shape off-season to lose fat in shades and degrees rather than metamorphic proportions...

[Fjock]

^ exactly. Also I am in favor of using every off season moment to add lean muscle. If dieting for 24 weeks or so, you have lost yourself a good 3 months of possible gained lean mass.

Hell i dirty bulk and only need 8 -10 weeks of prep.

[str8flexed]

lol you guys are missing the point, if you start out lean and diet longer you allow yourself to keep your calories higher. At 6 weeks out I am adding calories back in to many of my clients. If you think this approach doesn't work then go look at Semper27's "50 days" thread

[str8flexed]

If it's too draining psycologicaly, then the person needs to find a different sport.

[madman911]

6 months x 4 weeks/month = 24 weeks out??? Way too long... Too draining psychologically and physiologically IMO...

If you have 24 hypothetical lbs to lose, you can lose 1 lb/week for 24 weeks (3500 cal deficit/week) or 2 lbs a week for 12 (7000 cal deficit/week). The longer prep is less draining when you look at it in these terms. I think Layne's approach of getting into stage worthy conditioning at 6-8 weeks out makes perfect sense, as it allows plenty of time to tweak things to pefection. A huge part of the stress of contest prep is worrying about nailing your peak. If you're glutes are striated at 4 weeks out... I'd say you can relax a little. :D

And to comment on the idea that 3-4 additional weeks of bulking are preferable to a longer cutting phase, I would have to disagree. If you're bulking naturally, you aren't likely to put on more than 3-4 lbs of LBM in that time period and you're more likely to lose most of that if you cut down rapidly. Not only that, but you'll add at least another 2-3 lbs of fat over that period.

[str8flexed]

3-4 lbs if you are lucky... more like a half pound in 3-4 weeks

[fitfranco]

Although I train competitors, my pick is Layne!

And I too agree with long slow diets. It has worked well for me, and currently doing it again.

[str8flexed]

Although I train competitors, my pick is Layne!

And I too agree with long slow diets. It has worked well for me, and currently doing it again.

and this dude gets more shredded than just about anyone i've seen, post a back pic franco LOL

[The Brotherhood]

I believe Layne has more experience between his own experiences and dieting clients than Dr. Joe is...so id go with Layne.

Can't go wrong with either though. Methods are very similar.

EDIT: Im pretty sure Dr. Joe is significantly more expensive, and since their methods are very similar, id definitely go with Layne ( I already am lol :p)

[str8flexed]

lol no way Nitaant. Joe has trained thousands and thousands more than myself and is clearly better established than me. We do disagree on various things but we are similar on a lot of things simply because we are both men of science and not BS. Joe and I are good friends and when I need advice I will often ask Joe, and during his last contest prep Joe asked for my input as well.

-Layne

[Cytrainer913]

Dr. Joe has just helped the three overall winners of the Cayman Islands Universe get their Pro wins at this past show Jim Cordova, Joan Lopez, and Arlene Lurey all work with Dr. Joe. He is helping over 40 clients combined this weekend at Dave Goodin's OCB show and the INBF/WNBF Pro American Northeasten Classic held by 4X WNBF World Champ Nancy Andrews.


In the last 6 years, Dr. Joe has helped over 60 clients, including myself and my wife, win their BB or Figure pro cards, heck even Layne gets some Dr. Joe help the last couple of weeks out for a unbiased eye during his prep. Those guys are the best of friends, one loves glutamine and the other does not, ha!

It's just a pick 'em when it comes to them, both are the best at the natural contest prep game IMO!

[The Brotherhood]

lol no way Nitaant. Joe has trained thousands and thousands more than myself and is clearly better established than me. We do disagree on various things but we are similar on a lot of things simply because we are both men of science and not BS. Joe and I are good friends and when I need advice I will often ask Joe, and during his last contest prep Joe asked for my input as well.

-Layne

Thousands? Ouch! I always figured Joe was the man with the science but not all that actively involved in direct contest prep. Guess I was wrong :eek:.


Thousands? Seriously? Or is there some mild exaggeration here lol. Thousands is a massive number

[NPC_Jim]

Have not used either. But from what I have read Layne has his act together and yet to get red checks for misleading someone.

[Fjock]

If you have 24 hypothetical lbs to lose, you can lose 1 lb/week for 24 weeks (3500 cal deficit/week) or 2 lbs a week for 12 (7000 cal deficit/week). The longer prep is less draining when you look at it in these terms. I think Layne's approach of getting into stage worthy conditioning at 6-8 weeks out makes perfect sense, as it allows plenty of time to tweak things to pefection. A huge part of the stress of contest prep is worrying about nailing your peak. If you're glutes are striated at 4 weeks out... I'd say you can relax a little. :D

And to comment on the idea that 3-4 additional weeks of bulking are preferable to a longer cutting phase, I would have to disagree. If you're bulking naturally, you aren't likely to put on more than 3-4 lbs of LBM in that time period and you're more likely to lose most of that if you cut down rapidly. Not only that, but you'll add at least another 2-3 lbs of fat over that period.
Ummm, im pretty sure i said 3-4 months to add lean mass, not weeks. makes a huge difference

[tviceman]

6 months is too long... Way too long...

I'm honestly unimpressed with your physique and conditioning in any of the pictures you've posted of yourself, so I'm apt to conclude you have more to learn before saying 6 months is too long a period for anyone to follow a precontest diet.

[madman911]

3-4 lbs if you are lucky... more like a half pound in 3-4 weeks

Oops.. I accidentally typed weeks instead of months. I meant to say the most LBM you could expect to gain would be 3-4 lbs in 3-4 months of additional bulking.

[madman911]

Ummm, im pretty sure i said 3-4 months to add lean mass, not weeks. makes a huge difference

I meant to say months, my mistake. With that correction, I stand by what I said.

[Cytrainer913]

It makes everything less taxing on the body, lean muscle retention is greater, bodyfat comes off slower as well, and this makes for a less stressful situation. And when you are ready in that 4-6 weeks out time frame, more food can be added back in, which tends to help increase the metabolic rate again and also fill you out even with less bodyfat, so harder, fuller, leaner, and just more crisp, I will take that anyday.

Look at the WNBF pros from England, who have ridiculously low bodyfat, and are shredded to the max, most diet about 20-24 weeks for shows.

It makes the last month before a show less worrisome because you can work on your fine tuning of your posing and not worry so much about bodyfat droips in that last week before a show. Who wants to be trying to lose that last 3-5 lbs of bodyfat in those last 2 weeks before a show, NOT ME!

[str8flexed]

Thousands? Ouch! I always figured Joe was the man with the science but not all that actively involved in direct contest prep. Guess I was wrong :eek:.


Thousands? Seriously? Or is there some mild exaggeration here lol. Thousands is a massive number

i am not exaggerating in the least

[fitfranco]

When I start my diet 6 plus month out, I am not trying to lose 40 plus pounds. Its the start of cleaning things up and gradual lose body fat to the point that a half of pound of fat lose per week is all that is needed. And the cool thing, during this time period is when you can grow since you are still in an anablolic state! When you give yourself a "16 week prep" there is more pressure to look your best, and more times than none, you will lose valuable muscle. The goal as a natural bodybuilder is simple. Perserve muscle and lose fat.
Just my thoughts.

[Fjock]

I meant to say months, my mistake. With that correction, I stand by what I said. I guess your body greatly differs from mine then because those extra 3 months of bulking are crucial to me. If you diet correctly you can cut down in a shorter period without sacrificing an excess amount of muscle. Just need the right strategy.

I suppose my strategy is geared more towards a heavyweight competitor though. Bulking is more crucial for us since some of these guys are just monsters.

Edit: Yea, just saw your pictures. Indeed your body does greatly differ..

[madman911]

I guess your body greatly differs from mine then because those extra 3 months of bulking are crucial to me. If you diet correctly you can cut down in a shorter period without sacrificing an excess amount of muscle. Just need the right strategy.

I suppose my strategy is geared more towards a heavyweight competitor though. Bulking is more crucial for us since some of these guys are just monsters.

Edit: Yea, just saw your pictures. Indeed your body does greatly differ..

I'm definitely no heavyweight, just a 33 year old who is a relative newb to bodybuilding. I've only done one contest prep, an 8 month marathon in which I lost over 50 lbs, and this year I'm going to work with Layne on my next prep. My word sure as hell ain't gospel, but if guys like Layne and Craig are saying that longer cutting phases are superior, I'd listen, because they obviously know a thing or two about getting into pro level contest shape. I'm merely mirroring the opinions of far wiser individuals than myself.

I've seen the pics you've posted from your contests and while I think you have an awesome build especially for someone your age, I think you are coming into your shows a bit too smooth and soft looking. I believe your conditioning would improve greatly if you prepped for 16-20 weeks instead of 8-10. In reality, the amount of size you'd give up would be minimal and you'd actually appear bigger on stage by coming in more striated and vascular. Just my opinion.

[Fjock]

I'm definitely no heavyweight, just a 33 year old who is a relative newb to bodybuilding. I've only done one contest prep, an 8 month marathon in which I lost over 50 lbs, and this year I'm going to work with Layne on my next prep. My word sure as hell ain't gospel, but if guys like Layne and Craig are saying that longer cutting phases are superior, I'd listen, because they obviously know a thing or two about getting into pro level contest shape. I'm merely mirroring the opinions of far wiser individuals than myself.

I've seen the pics you've posted from your contests and while I think you have an awesome build especially for someone your age, I think you are coming into your shows a bit too smooth and soft looking. I believe your conditioning would improve greatly if you prepped for 16-20 weeks instead of 8-10. In reality, the amount of size you'd give up would be minimal and you'd actually appear bigger on stage by coming in more striated and vascular. Just my opinion.
Absolutely, my conditioning could have been MUCH better, which it is for my upcoming contest. Not to sound cocky, but competing at the teen class, I already knew that with my size I didnt really need to kill myself to win. Had many cheat meals and it was just plain sloppy leading up to my shows last year. But like i said, why kill myself when i could have basically had the win on my off season with the competition i faced...

I will be doing the heavyweight open from here on out though and I certainly know there is no room for any prior non sense i could get away with in the teen division. Will be much tighter come may 19th =)

Edit: FYI, for the Mid florida classic show in 06, I was so far ahead on the cards that I ate popeyes chicken and drank a large dr. pepper with sides and the whole nine. During the break between morning and night show. Dont want you to think I was coming in at top form from those pics ha

[semper27]

I opt for a minimum of 20 weeks out to begin prep for a show. Slow and steady, preserving lean mass as much as possible. I'm 19 weeks in to my prep with 10 more days to go. The diet hasn't been off key yet. No adjustments to speak of, cardio twice a week for the entire duration, 17 min. each session, in and out in less than an hour.... If you want something bad enough, you will adjust and make sacrifices to accomodate the situation. Adapt and over come. If you want to diet for a short amount of time because the "DIET" get's to you mentally. Then you don't want it bad enough. Get a vision, stick with the vision, never lose site of this vision. Believe in yourself and know that you can do it. You have to believe in yourself if you want other's to believe in you. Sometimes you have to dig down deep bro. It's all a matter of how much effort you are willing to put forth to look your very personal best on that specific day. It's an ongoing challenge and you should have fun with it while you can. Best of luck with your prep.

[Blahzay128]

lol you guys are missing the point, if you start out lean and diet longer you allow yourself to keep your calories higher. At 6 weeks out I am adding calories back in to many of my clients. If you think this approach doesn't work then go look at Semper27's "50 days" thread

Layne - that is exactly why I'm opting to prep longer this time around. My first show, last yr, I dieted for 4 months....and I felt like I was playing catch up the whole time...

One reason that I like Laynes style is b/c he knows what "conditioning" means....and has shown that when he steps on stage....plus there is no denying his knowledge. Layne, I'll be in touch regarding contest prep.

[str8flexed]

cool looking forward to it. I'll also be honest and say you can't go wrong with Joe either

[Ivan25]

I'm honestly unimpressed with your physique and conditioning in any of the pictures you've posted of yourself, so I'm apt to conclude you have more to learn before saying 6 months is too long a period for anyone to follow a precontest diet.

Obviously we have a difference of opinion... I know exactly what an ideal bodybuilding physique looks like.. I'm talking down to the numbers for proportions and symmetry... If youre unimpressed with my physique, thats good... A lot of ppl are not... Can't please everybody... all I can say is, my proportions are right on with regard to the science and literature out there on proportions among bodybuilders... Go to Super Athlete by Willougby.. Or John Hansens book Natural bodybuilding.. Maybe it will help out your physique development... You contest pics, not ripped enough.

[The Brotherhood]

You contest pics, not ripped enough.

lol. He is MUCH more shredded than you in his pics

[Ivan25]

I like the idea of longer dieting.. Just as long as you are talking about refilling and tweaking.. Sure it makes sense... But for those who can do it properly in 13 weeks or less, why criticize it if it works... Principle of individuality... Longer is safer... But for me, 13 weeks out, and currently 182, trying to get to 172... That is about 0.8 lb/wk.... Not to mention, actually I need to lose only 7-8 lb.... Taking into account the 1-2 lb of water weight lost 2-3 days before contest day...

I like the longer dieting plan though... and im not referring to myself about psychological drain... It happens to the best of us... and it can happen to others... Just informing you of the risk for dieting so long... Everyone wouldnt be up to that task... I know I would... Easily for me.. This sport is my life... And my mission to become one of the best natural bodybuilders of all time...

[Ivan25]

lol....


lol. He is MUCH more shredded than you in his pics

[tviceman]

Obviously we have a difference of opinion... I know exactly what an ideal bodybuilding physique looks like.. I'm talking down to the numbers for proportions and symmetry... If youre unimpressed with my physique, thats good... A lot of ppl are not... Can't please everybody... all I can say is, my proportions are right on with regard to the science and literature out there on proportions among bodybuilders... Go to Super Athlete by Willougby.. Or John Hansens book Natural bodybuilding.. Maybe it will help out your physique development... You contest pics, not ripped enough.

I'm unimpressed with your physique because you're neither that big nor that lean in your contest pictures. Insofar as me not being ripped enough in a contest, sure I'll give you that. But I'm also 100% positive I've been more lean than you on stage.

So once again, I reitirate you have more to learn before you tell someone 6 months is too long to precontest diet.

[str8flexed]

man you have some hellish calves tony... damn

[Blahzay128]

I'm unimpressed with your physique because you're neither that big nor that lean in your contest pictures. Insofar as me not being ripped enough in a contest, sure I'll give you that. But I'm also 100% positive I've been more lean than you on stage.

So once again, I reitirate you have more to learn before you tell someone 6 months is too long to precontest diet.

That first pic is what I'm talkin about!!! SHREDDED! Awesome physique...

I guess what it all boils down to is preference and body type....I'm sure some guys can diet for 10 wks and look phenomenol...However, I'd say that the majority of NATURAL bodybuilders need a little more time.

[tviceman]

That first pic is what I'm talkin about!!! SHREDDED! Awesome physique...

I guess what it all boils down to is preference and body type....I'm sure some guys can diet for 10 wks and look phenomenol...However, I'd say that the majority of NATURAL bodybuilders need a little more time.

It depends on how lean you are when you start dieting. If you're pretty darn lean at 20 weeks out, by no means does that mean it's too early to diet. Quite the contrary, actually. Anyone who has to lose 2 lbs. week after week after week is going to be drained of their energy come a month out, so the slower you can go the better. When I prepped for my first contest, I only lost 4 lbs. in the 12 weeks I dieted AND I was the leanest guy on stage.

However, for my third contest, I lost 35 lbs. and I was the least conditioned guy on the stage (hahaha!) so it all just depends.

[Vadim Beliaev]

I like the idea of longer dieting.. Just as long as you are talking about refilling and tweaking.. Sure it makes sense... But for those who can do it properly in 13 weeks or less, why criticize it if it works... Principle of individuality... Longer is safer... But for me, 13 weeks out, and currently 182, trying to get to 172... That is about 0.8 lb/wk.... Not to mention, actually I need to lose only 7-8 lb.... Taking into account the 1-2 lb of water weight lost 2-3 days before contest day...

I like the longer dieting plan though... and im not referring to myself about psychological drain... It happens to the best of us... and it can happen to others... Just informing you of the risk for dieting so long... Everyone wouldnt be up to that task... I know I would... Easily for me.. This sport is my life... And my mission to become one of the best natural bodybuilders of all time...

Youre missing the point completely. If you take longer to prep, there are a lot less drastic measures involved that would actually be psychologically taxing. Yet if i ever tried to do my prep in 12 weeks, id be so psychologically drained from constantly worrying if i was going to make it, that competing would be the last thing on my mind.

[Razmoneyrecords]

my first season I gave myself 16 weeks
second season i gave myself 17 weeks

Granted I need to stay leaner in the offseason, I can see clearly that a nice comfortable 20 to 24 weeks is the answer. You should be ready 3 to 4 weeks out. A long diet is much less taxing because you still have intense workouts and you can keep it a little looser in the beginning while still dumping BF. Plus you can keep the cardio to a minimum.

[madman911]

But for me, 13 weeks out, and currently 182, trying to get to 172... That is about 0.8 lb/wk.... Not to mention, actually I need to lose only 7-8 lb.... Taking into account the 1-2 lb of water weight lost 2-3 days before contest day...

How have you calculated so precisely the amount of weight you need to lose? You can't predict when certain bodyparts are going to come in... it's not a numbers game. All that matters is how you look. It makes sense to start prep way out, get shredded early, and then add some calories back in during the final weeks... forget about numbers.

[semper27]

I'm unimpressed with your physique because you're neither that big nor that lean in your contest pictures. Insofar as me not being ripped enough in a contest, sure I'll give you that. But I'm also 100% positive I've been more lean than you on stage.

So once again, I reitirate you have more to learn before you tell someone 6 months is too long to precontest diet.

MONEY IN THE BANK TONEY !!! CHA-CHING !!!

[deags]

I competed 6 years ago and tried to lose 30 pounds in 15 weeks (with a vaction week thrown on there), what a mistake that was. Now, I am working with two individuals including fitfranco - I have been dieting since late December and have been progressively losing 1-1.25 pounds per week. I have lost a total of 24 pounds while my waist has gone from 40.25" to 32" in 20 weeks. I only weigh 171, and my caloric intake is the same as it was when I started at 195. I currently consume 2,450 calories on weight training days and 2,150 on non-weight training days. I eat very clean and have cheated only a handful of times. I hope to have the luxury of adding more calories in to my diet later in the year.

My plan is to continue on this same plan since it is working so well. I am convinced, that all though the weight loss has been farly slow because I was too heavy to begin with, consistency in your diet is the key to getting shredded. Although I still have a ways to go, I am seeing my body change every week, therefore, I am a huge fan of longer dieting. I am WAY ahead of where I was the last time I tried to compete. My shows are not until November, but I guarantee I will be ready. I am not the biggest guy on the block but I will be as well conditioned as possible and at 41, it is much more difficult to get ready for a show than it was even 6 years ago. Add in the mix of a full time job, family with small children and it makes this even harder, but very worth it.

Best of luck to you and from what I have read, Layne knows his stuff. BTW, thanks for all of your help fitfranco!

[Muscle4]

I'm unimpressed with your physique because you're neither that big nor that lean in your contest pictures. Insofar as me not being ripped enough in a contest, sure I'll give you that. But I'm also 100% positive I've been more lean than you on stage.

So once again, I reitirate you have more to learn before you tell someone 6 months is too long to precontest diet.

Nice pics bro! And I agree w/Layne---nice cavs!!

[Ivan25]

MONEY IN THE BANK TONEY !!! CHA-CHING !!!

It's getting pointless to answer questions now.. I'm going to take a sabbotical and go turn pro now... Then when i come back with the pics, maybe more respect will follow...


Your most muscular looks like nothing compared to mine.. I'll give you credit on your leaness in abs... As for learning more sure, but don't be an a**hole about replying next time.. "Eating a cheeseburger after workout..." I'm getting my master's in Ex. phys... And will get my PhD later on... And I will be getting my 3rd publication w/ this masters, of which it will likely appear in the Medicine and Science in Sports Exercise journal... As for not being impressed w/ my physique, I'm not impressed with yours either... My back is way more cut than yours.. My legs are an area I am working on improving, like most other bber's... It is usually one of the last body parts to come out like the glutes, and hams... Unless genetics are involved... As for doing a pre-contest 20 plus weeks out, I will probably do this for my next show... I like the idea... Yes it makes sense... I am glad I posted on this, b/c I learned something new.. But for this show, I have set out 13 weeks... All I can do now is do my best with it... I will be contest ready by 6-8 weeks outs... I never feel pressure on my pre-contest prep.. I guess others do.. I never do.. I thrive in 13 weeks.. It's exciting... And I usually refill quite often in the last 3-4 weeks... But perhaps dieting longer will allow me to attain the famous striated glutes... And if I don't attain the most ripped physique this time, I will diet 20 plus weeks out... Even if I do attain the most ripped physique I ever have, it will not be good enough for me.. Good enough for me is when it is the best ever... And I will diet for 20 plus weeks out for the rest of my shows...

[tviceman]

Your most muscular looks like nothing compared to mine..

???


No further comment, your honor.

[str8flexed]

ivan, it's good to be confident in yourself, but this is boardering on delusional. Be confident but let your physique do the talking

[serratus]

It depends on how lean you are when you start dieting. If you're pretty darn lean at 20 weeks out, by no means does that mean it's too early to diet. Quite the contrary, actually. Anyone who has to lose 2 lbs. week after week after week is going to be drained of their energy come a month out, so the slower you can go the better. When I prepped for my first contest, I only lost 4 lbs. in the 12 weeks I dieted AND I was the leanest guy on stage.

However, for my third contest, I lost 35 lbs. and I was the least conditioned guy on the stage (hahaha!) so it all just depends.




Dude, niiiice pictures. You're looking good there.

[serratus]

It's getting pointless to answer questions now.. I'm going to take a sabbotical and go turn pro now... Then when i come back with the pics, maybe more respect will follow...


Your most muscular looks like nothing compared to mine.. I'll give you credit on your leaness in abs... As for learning more sure, but don't be an a**hole about replying next time.. "Eating a cheeseburger after workout..." I'm getting my master's in Ex. phys... And will get my PhD later on... And I will be getting my 3rd publication w/ this masters, of which it will likely appear in the Medicine and Science in Sports Exercise journal... As for not being impressed w/ my physique, I'm not impressed with yours either... My back is way more cut than yours.. My legs are an area I am working on improving, like most other bber's... It is usually one of the last body parts to come out like the glutes, and hams... Unless genetics are involved... As for doing a pre-contest 20 plus weeks out, I will probably do this for my next show... I like the idea... Yes it makes sense... I am glad I posted on this, b/c I learned something new.. But for this show, I have set out 13 weeks... All I can do now is do my best with it... I will be contest ready by 6-8 weeks outs... I never feel pressure on my pre-contest prep.. I guess others do.. I never do.. I thrive in 13 weeks.. It's exciting... And I usually refill quite often in the last 3-4 weeks... But perhaps dieting longer will allow me to attain the famous striated glutes... And if I don't attain the most ripped physique this time, I will diet 20 plus weeks out... Even if I do attain the most ripped physique I ever have, it will not be good enough for me.. Good enough for me is when it is the best ever... And I will diet for 20 plus weeks out for the rest of my shows...



Ivan, you look really, really good. However, your ego is drowning out your physique and your points you want to make. You obviously know what you're doing, but so do other folks.

Good luck and keep up the progress with your education and those legs :)

[musclemass22]

Tvicemen--How much did you way in those pictures? You looked great!

Ivan--you are obviously knowledgeable about this sport but check the ego. To be honest, your physique looks like mine and the other 20 guys that compete in the local community bodybuilding show. We both have a long ways to go. I applaud your drive though.

[tviceman]

Tvicemen--How much did you way in those pictures? You looked great!

Ivan--you are obviously knowledgeable about this sport but check the ego. To be honest, your physique looks like mine and the other 20 guys that compete in the local community bodybuilding show. We both have a long ways to go. I applaud your drive though.

Thanks, I weighed either 161 or 167 lbs. depending on the picture.

[Ivan25]

I forgot to mention this aspect of argument to Layne... In your article--> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm

It provides a weeks-out calculator... I put that I'm 182 @ 12% body fat, wanting to get to 5%.. It gave me 8-13 weeks out... I'm doing 13... With my bodytype being primarily mesomorhic/ectomorphic... This would be appropriate for me..

Question--> Why the sudden explosion and jumping on the bandwagon for 20 + weeks out.. It is implicated in your article that the longer the dieting, the more weight had to be lost AND the person having an endomorphic body type via slower metabolism.... Is this article just outdated?

[str8flexed]

that's just a general guide... I also wrote that article 4 years ago... i'm not allowed to evolve my thinking?

[Ivan25]

Of course.. We all are... But wanting to promote longer dieting as the BE ALL, is not correct either... This is situation-dependent... Everyone is different.

BTW, checkout my threads on carb drink during workouts AND alanine-glucose cycle.. I'm curious as to your thoughts on these issues...

[str8flexed]

well obviously someone who is very lean to start may only need 12-16 weeks, but I see way too many people who don't have abs trying to get shredded in 12 weeks and wonder why they stand on the far ends of the stage come contest day

[Jrich54338]

Gotta Agree with Layne !!!

[Ivan25]

Of course.. But I have abs already... It's a depth change, not a metamorphic change, like you are referring to (guys with no abs to start)... I feel ya bruh..

[Fjock]

well obviously someone who is very lean to start may only need 12-16 weeks, but I see way too many people who don't have abs trying to get shredded in 12 weeks and wonder why they stand on the far ends of the stage come contest day

heh heh, nicely put at the end there

[Blahzay128]

Ivan - to each their own as far as amt. of time dieting....Your obviously not argueing against a longer diet as you stated you would prob. go that route in the future....However, just comparing what I can see off of pics...Right now he's got you in all departments as far as mass/conditioning...Also, your pics are not on stage (his are)...Typically pics on stage, due to lighting, will wash out some definition...So it is not apples to apples.

Both phsyiques are great....you obviously know your $hit....and in the end the purpose of this thread was not to have a call out between you and tviceman...but hey we are all bodybuilders...I guess it happens..haha :)

G

[gangsta1087]

well based on this picture how long would i have to diet

[tviceman]

well based on this picture how long would i have to diet

Kind of hard to tell from that picture, but I'd guess 12 weeks absolute minimum with 15-16 being more optimal.

Then again, I'm just guessing.

[Fjock]

well based on this picture how long would i have to diet

yea doesnt look like you have any abs visible from that so id say your in for a full contest prep like some others here are suggesting you do

[str8flexed]

well based on this picture how long would i have to diet

i'd honestly go closer to 20 depending on how much you weigh

[CWells]

i'd honestly go closer to 20 depending on how much you weigh

agreed

[tviceman]

i'd honestly go closer to 20 depending on how much you weigh

<insert Chris Farley voice>

Oh man I was WAY off!