1980, Arnold over Mentzer

[Kane Fan]

ok I've heard much from the 'Mentzer should have won' school
I'm interested in what you guys think (especially now that we have some pro's posting here)

[Dr_Funk]

this has been done to death...here's my view.

Arnold in no way should have won that contest, but neither should have Mentzer.

However; that being said, Arnold was one of the best posers at the time so even if his body wasn't the best he still deserved to place above Mentzer.

I think zane and (forget who, there was someone else) had better bodies than Arnie and Mike.

[Pro Bob Chick]

Easy one...

Arnold was no where near the Arnold of 5 years earlier....BUT, he was still the best OVERALL on that day. Mentzer was good but had too many flaws to have won....boxy look, big ass, no chest. Unfortunately, Mike NEVER got over it as it ruined the rest of his career.

The only thing worse was Franco winning the following year, which was a travesty, the title could have gone to Padilla, Platz, or Callender without anyone raising a brow. FRANCO?? 5th place at BEST!!

[Dr_Funk]

I think i'll go watch Total Rebuild again :D

[USMuscle9403]

Mentzer will continue to be one of my favs nonetheless. Maybe because I follow a Heavy Duty/HIT/doggcrapp type routine :D

Bob - How many pros that you know of follow a low volume routine such as Heavy Duty?
Allen

[wildman536]

Originally posted by USMuscle9403


Bob - How many pros that you know of follow a low volume routine such as Heavy Duty?
Allen Not BOB but- 0 they are on Stuff now that allows them to do a Ton of Sets per Workout.

[USMuscle9403]

Originally posted by wildman536
Not BOB but- 0 they are on Stuff now that allows them to do a Ton of Sets per Workout.

I imagine there are still some pros that use a very low volume routine such as Heavy Duty or HIT. Hell, Dorian and Mentzer used them and that wasn't THAT long ago.
Allen

[buff beecho]

casey viator, and Aaron baker also trained with mentzer

[old12132434]

1980 Olympia

[buff beecho]

that pic rate there says it all , the 1980 contest was fixed not tomention most of the judges where aronlds friends

[johnnyironboard]

Originally posted by BOB CHICK
Easy one...

Arnold was no where near the Arnold of 5 years earlier....BUT, he was still the best OVERALL on that day. Mentzer was good but had too many flaws to have won....boxy look, big ass, no chest. Unfortunately, Mike NEVER got over it as it ruined the rest of his career.

The only thing worse was Franco winning the following year, which was a travesty, the title could have gone to Padilla, Platz, or Callender without anyone raising a brow. FRANCO?? 5th place at BEST!!

I agree with your Arnold point.

I don't think Franco's victory was a travesty- I thought he was good as any.

That period was strange in that either everyone was really bad or they were all really close. 1980 Arnold won, 1981 Franco, 1982 Chris Dickerson( I thought he could have been 1st to 4th), 1983 Samir- nobody dominated until Haney came along.

[wildturkey]

1. Arnold
2. Zane
3. Platz

Nick.

[reanimator485]

Even if Mentzer looked better than Arnold, he would still have lost. Arnold was buddy buddy with the judges, he was more popular with the crowd, etc.

[GettnHuge]

1. arnold
2. arnold
3. arnold

no contest

[buff beecho]

1.mentzer
2. aronld
3. platz

[nin10dude]

1. Mentzer
2. Zane
3. Arnold

[buff beecho]

that actully looks like a better setup

[V5RED]

neone know who each bb in that pic is?

[Gr8Ape]

i can name a few
starting from left
1?
2 Ahnold
3 ?
4 Row calendar
5 Mike Mentzer
6 ZZZZane
7 chris dickerson



arnold is still pretty good

[Ryo]

It could have gone to any of the chosen top 5 IMO. Tom Platz did not deserve to be in the top 3 like so many in this thread have said. He probably trained harder then anybody for the show but his back was was very very small compared to the rest of his body. He could have very well be given the title in 81, the man was the biggest freak on stage.

[Ryo]

Originally posted by buff beecho
casey viator, and Aaron baker also trained with mentzer


Yeah, Mentzer was obviously one strong bastard to have trained With Viator as he did. But Mentzer trained Baker, not trained with him.

[Ryo]

Originally posted by USMuscle9403
I imagine there are still some pros that use a very low volume routine such as Heavy Duty or HIT. Hell, Dorian and Mentzer used them and that wasn't THAT long ago.
Allen

Some pros train with even more volume then they did in the seventies. Theirry Pastel would do 6-9 hour training sessions. Also they consume a lot more calories which allows them to train like that, it is not just drugs.

[Patu]

Originally posted by V5RED
neone know who each bb in that pic is?

Boyer Coe,Arnold,Roger Walker (Disliked Arnold),Callendar,Mentzer,Zane,Dickerson.

[Whingman]

Well By looking at the photo, I still must give it to Arnold however the controversy should be why mentzer got 4th place they guy looks like he is the only one that could be better then arnold you almost could give him the victory, but instead zane and dickerson place ahead of him and Coe ties with him. Zane is really un-impressive he looks small not filled out and his midsection as well as lines are not tops. For being probabley the closest to beating arnold, someone must have had it in for Mentzer.

[jayvee]

seeing this pic, and others of the guy, i think one of the worlds great mysteries, is Boyer Coes abless midsection - the guy genetically just didnt have abs! it was weird...

oh, and Mentzer was easily better than Arnold...

[buff beecho]

Originally posted by Ryo
Yeah, Mentzer was obviously one strong bastard to have trained With Viator as he did. But Mentzer trained Baker, not trained with him.

your right about aron baker he trained him not lifted with him , i think he also trained dorian yates

[nin10dude]

Originally posted by jayvee
seeing this pic, and others of the guy, i think one of the worlds great mysteries, is Boyer Coes abless midsection - the guy genetically just didnt have abs! it was weird...

oh, and Mentzer was easily better than Arnold...

Yeah, I always thought boyer's abs were interesting. And Mentzer was definitely better than arnold, like you said. For anyone that doubts it: Why did CBS fly a film crew halfway around the world to film the 1980 Olympia, only to never televise the contest?

[johnnyironboard]

Originally posted by nin10dude
For anyone that doubts it: Why did CBS fly a film crew halfway around the world to film the 1980 Olympia, only to never televise the contest?

Because BB'ing contests are boring. They aren't on TV now either- does that mean they are all fixed?

[nin10dude]

Originally posted by johnnyironboard
Because BB'ing contests are boring. They aren't on TV now either- does that mean they are all fixed?

so they spent all the money and time into filming it when they thought the public would find it boring and no one would watch? yeah, that makes perfect sense. and yes, there is plenty of favortism today so to a certain extent, they are fixed.

[nin10dude]

The real question is not whether or not the contest was rigged - it was. The question we should be asking is why?

Is it because Arnold didn't want to risk his winning streak? Maybe. However, I think there is more to it.

In the late 70's and 1980 Mike Mentzer was becoming very popular. He had bestselling books, appeared on television shows, and gave seminars. And in his appearances and writings Mike always questioned not only the high-volume training protocols but also the need for nutritional supplements. And of course supplements are the bread-and-butter of the bodybuilding industry.

Needless to say, this angered bodybuilding's powers-that-be, and they needed a way to knock this guy Mentzer down a few notches and put him in his place. So they enlisted the help of their golden boy arnold to help them with the job.

Okay, that's my theory. Rip on it all you like.

[CreamPie Charlie]

hmmm interesting

[johnnyironboard]

Originally posted by nin10dude
The real question is not whether or not the contest was rigged - it was. The question we should be asking is why?

Is it because Arnold didn't want to risk his winning streak? Maybe. However, I think there is more to it.

In the late 70's and 1980 Mike Mentzer was becoming very popular. He had bestselling books, appeared on television shows, and gave seminars. And in his appearances and writings Mike always questioned not only the high-volume training protocols but also the need for nutritional supplements. And of course supplements are the bread-and-butter of the bodybuilding industry.

Needless to say, this angered bodybuilding's powers-that-be, and they needed a way to knock this guy Mentzer down a few notches and put him in his place. So they enlisted the help of their golden boy arnold to help them with the job.

Okay, that's my theory. Rip on it all you like.

Why not just give it to Zane again- he had won it 3 years in a row.

[nin10dude]

Originally posted by johnnyironboard
Why not just give it to Zane again- he had won it 3 years in a row.

That's a good question cuz to me Zane looks like an Auschwitz survivor standing next to Mentzer. I think they really wanted to take him down . . . a lot. Second place wasn't going to cut it. And perhaps Arnold was planning a comeback anyway and so was facilitated by this. And so they placed both arnold and zane ahead of Mike. And just for the hell of it they put chris dickerson up there, too!

And they gave the two low-volume trainers (boyer and mentzer) the exact same score. I just thought that an odd coincidence, but who knows if there's anything to it.

[johnnyironboard]

Originally posted by nin10dude
The real question is not whether or not the contest was rigged - it was. The question we should be asking is why?

Is it because Arnold didn't want to risk his winning streak? Maybe. However, I think there is more to it.

In the late 70's and 1980 Mike Mentzer was becoming very popular. He had bestselling books, appeared on television shows, and gave seminars. And in his appearances and writings Mike always questioned not only the high-volume training protocols but also the need for nutritional supplements. And of course supplements are the bread-and-butter of the bodybuilding industry.

Needless to say, this angered bodybuilding's powers-that-be, and they needed a way to knock this guy Mentzer down a few notches and put him in his place. So they enlisted the help of their golden boy arnold to help them with the job.

Okay, that's my theory. Rip on it all you like.

OK lets assumed it was fixed just for Arnold. Let us ask why?

1. To keep Arnolds "record" intact? No that is not a good reason.

2. To keep Mentzer in his place because of his training theories? No new theories lead to new articles to put in magazines.

3. To keep Mentzer down because he didn't like supplements? No supplements will always sell just look at HMB, Andro, Methoxy, NO2....

4. To give Arnold publicity for the new release of "Conan the Barbarian" a movie that he got a % of the gross of and possibly greased the palms of the judges if they gave him the win to help sell the movie? That sounds like a good reason.

[nin10dude]

Originally posted by johnnyironboard
OK lets assumed it was fixed just for Arnold. Let us ask why?

1. To keep Arnolds "record" intact? No that is not a good reason.

2. To keep Mentzer in his place because of his training theories? No new theories lead to new articles to put in magazines.

3. To keep Mentzer down because he didn't like supplements? No supplements will always sell just look at HMB, Andro, Methoxy, NO2....

4. To give Arnold publicity for the new release of "Conan the Barbarian" a movie that he got a % of the gross of and possibly greased the palms of the judges if they gave him the win to help sell the movie? That sounds like a good reason.


Hey, not bad, Johnny. I never even considered that. I'm still not abandoning the idea that the establishment was trying to keep Mike down, but I do like your explanation. Good work.

[Natural Science]

I never noticed Mikes ass, but his chest was sort of small, in proportion to his shoulders and arms.

[Man, I_m Big]

Originally posted by buff beecho
that pic rate there says it all , the 1980 contest was fixed not tomention most of the judges where aronlds friends

IT WASN'T Fixed! It was 1980, those guys had to realize that the sport was changing and weighing 180 on-stage would no longer get you the top spot. The sport started getting bigger, the people, the show, the game, the sport, the drugs. Arnold was massive bringing a new level or pinncle of "Huge" to the stage. I never new Mr O's did that <cough, cough Haney, Yates, Coleman>
Mike Mentzer had good intentions, but considering the politics and **** behind bodybuilding, he would never have pulled it off.

[Neverwrong]

Nope, you are wrong. The previous four years and the following two years would all be won by guys in the under 200 lbs. class., & Samir was only 210 in '83. There were guys as big as Arnold competing during those years, but they didn't win. Even during Haney's reign, Lee Labrada gave him a run for his money at only 185 lbs. As for Mentzer, he was bigger, around 225, about the same as Arnold. Mentzer was also popular at the time and the favorite to win that year. He was Weider's new poster child, so Mentzer would have had politics playing in his favor. That's why Arnold needed to have the thing fixed, Mentzer was a real threat to his spot if he decided to come out of retirement and compete. You have been utterly refutted and you will not deny it. Goodbye.

[johnnyironboard]

Nope, you are wrong. The previous four years and the following two years would all be won by guys in the under 200 lbs. class., & Samir was only 210 in '83. There were guys as big as Arnold competing during those years, but they didn't win. Even during Haney's reign, Lee Labrada gave him a run for his money at only 185 lbs. As for Mentzer, he was bigger, around 225, about the same as Arnold. Mentzer was also popular at the time and the favorite to win that year. He was Weider's new poster child, so Mentzer would have had politics playing in his favor. That's why Arnold needed to have the thing fixed, Mentzer was a real threat to his spot if he decided to come out of retirement and compete. You have been utterly refutted and you will not deny it. Goodbye.

First post is bumping a 2 1/2 year old thread.

[raysmith]

Nope, you are wrong. The previous four years and the following two years would all be won by guys in the under 200 lbs. class., & Samir was only 210 in '83. There were guys as big as Arnold competing during those years, but they didn't win. Even during Haney's reign, Lee Labrada gave him a run for his money at only 185 lbs. As for Mentzer, he was bigger, around 225, about the same as Arnold. Mentzer was also popular at the time and the favorite to win that year. He was Weider's new poster child, so Mentzer would have had politics playing in his favor. That's why Arnold needed to have the thing fixed, Mentzer was a real threat to his spot if he decided to come out of retirement and compete. You have been utterly refutted and you will not deny it. Goodbye.
You signed up to give us a lecture on a post thats two years old?

I admit I think the 80 O was corrupted, but it was 26 years ago. Theres no going back now.

[rudolph]

I think at the Mr.O 1980 all competitors look crappy. There is noone who looks really good imho. They either look definition or muscle mass. And I bet Arni only competed because Uncle Joe promised him he would win. :D

[mikmaq]

A comparison with Arnold and Mentzer. I quickly edited this and just moved them closer together to see the difference a little easier.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/176/comparezx0.jpg

[rudolph]

Mentzer sucks. No traps, no chest, very wide hips, small shoulders,

[2_GuNz_Up]

Easy one...

Arnold was no where near the Arnold of 5 years earlier....BUT, he was still the best OVERALL on that day. Mentzer was good but had too many flaws to have won....boxy look, big ass, no chest. Unfortunately, Mike NEVER got over it as it ruined the rest of his career.

The only thing worse was Franco winning the following year, which was a travesty, the title could have gone to Padilla, Platz, or Callender without anyone raising a brow. FRANCO?? 5th place at BEST!!
I like franco, i think apperance wise sometimes he looked more muscular for his frame than arnold did.

[Fluff]

Also odd that Mentzer wins the 1979 heavy weight division, a year later he comes in fifth!

[johnnyironboard]

Also odd that Mentzer wins the 1979 heavy weight division, a year later he comes in fifth!

Ronnie Coleman was a consistent 10th and has won 8 years in a row. The Atlanta Braves finished last in 1990 and then won their division for the next 15 years.

[DaHooligan]

I never noticed Mikes ass, but his chest was sort of small, in proportion to his shoulders and arms.


mikes chest was the flattest on that stage...its probally do to his power training.

and frank zanes chest was even bigger then mentzers...and frank zane should of took it that year he doesnt look like a aushwiz survivor lol i look like an aushwitz survivor next to those guys...zanes body is just amazing dude looks like a greek statue.

[DaHooligan]

A comparison with Arnold and Mentzer. I quickly edited this and just moved them closer together to see the difference a little easier.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/176/comparezx0.jpg


mentzer did look better then arnold in 1980 in my opinion from this pic arnolds delts? where did they go he looks to be all traps mentzer has some awesome shoulders and i love how its straight but his problem is his hips are wide he didnt have much of a v taper and his chest wasnt up to par with his other body parts.


he shouldnt of been bitter though cause he should of trained his weak points and came back next year...just like they say the true test of a champion is not what he does when he wins but how he handles and lose and comes back from it.

mentzer had a chance because that was the time when anyone could of took it basically then the reigns began again with haney, yates, and coleman.

[sgtrobo]

wow, strong bump.

??????

[jehst]

whats with the ****ty lighting on stage anyway? you can barely even see chris dickerson. or is it just the pic?

[winston43]

Easy one...

Arnold was no where near the Arnold of 5 years earlier....BUT, he was still the best OVERALL on that day. Mentzer was good but had too many flaws to have won....boxy look, big ass, no chest. Unfortunately, Mike NEVER got over it as it ruined the rest of his career.

The only thing worse was Franco winning the following year, which was a travesty, the title could have gone to Padilla, Platz, or Callender without anyone raising a brow. FRANCO?? 5th place at BEST!!

to me arnold should have been second bill pearl had him out of the top five . mentzer no chest but arnie no thighs no forearms bad grooming and megalomania.

[sexnews]

to me arnold should have been second bill pearl had him out of the top five . mentzer no chest but arnie no thighs no forearms bad grooming and megalomania.

Please show me where Pearl had him out of the top 5

http://i.imgur.com/fpbpw.jpg

[MaKaiser]

good god thats a 7 year bump

[sexnews]

good god thats a 7 year bump

I'm sure he didn't know with only 74 posts

[Riflemancho]

Everyone who places Zane ahead of Arnold ... i mean seriously ? haha.. most overrated bodybuilder ever. There are one or two guys in my gym that look better than Zane. Mentzer shouldn't have been 5th, but definitely shouldn't have won. Small flat chest, wide hips, narrow clavicles, gut. I place Mentzer 3rd, after Arnold & Dickerson.

[MAX.MAREK]

Easy one...

Arnold was no where near the Arnold of 5 years earlier....BUT, he was still the best OVERALL on that day. Mentzer was good but had too many flaws to have won....boxy look, big ass, no chest. Unfortunately, Mike NEVER got over it as it ruined the rest of his career.

The only thing worse was Franco winning the following year, which was a travesty, the title could have gone to Padilla, Platz, or Callender without anyone raising a brow. FRANCO?? 5th place at BEST!!

COMPLETELY agree right here!

[Tb0282]

arnold clearly won. Mentzer didn't deserve fifth though imo.

The 1981 Olympia was a bigger controversy imo. Franco should not have placed any higher than 5th. He looked horrible. No leg separation and fullblown gyno.

[Nuclear_Warrior]

80: Arnold and then it really doesn't matter afterwards, no one dominated, but Arnold dominated the most even being off his 74/75 best. Mike Mentzer being shorter, should have blown Arnolds legs away, but they were just shorter versions of Arnold.

I don't think 80 was any sort of conspiracy.

81: Tom Platz all the way, Padilla, and maybe Franco 3rd (Franco did wonders with his body after his injury, but come on, huge bitch tit, no legs, 76 Franco would have won without question, but this was not 76 Franco by a long shot.)

I think 81 was a freaking joke.

[jamesyboi]

Mike had a better mo

I think Platz should of placed higher in some of his Olympias.

[planes12]

I've gone back and forth on this thing. When you look at Dickerson,Zane and mentzer up close they are in better condition than Arnold. More overall muscle development and better conditioning. But Arnold towers over them all and blows them away with upper body size. He looked out of place at times as well, almost embarrassed. I wish someone would post the photo shoot from the MF mag that Olympia. Arnold wins if you're looking at color photos in good lighting.

I remember looking at the mag and thinking he still looks great. Mentzer looked pretty awesom himself.

I actually really surprised no one has that mag and can scan some pics out of it.

[CytoRoc]

I think zane and (forget who, there was someone else) had better bodies than Arnie and Mike.

lmao oh my god..little zane over arnold? yea OK

[adgattoni]

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/176/comparezx0.jpg

I think this pic is pretty poor for comparing the two. It looks like Arnold hadn't fully posed yet (his shoulders appear to be slouched).

[Tony_Ulibarri]

The worst of Arnold was still enough to win over the best of the rest.

[detrimental]

Where's that big ass thread on this topic with all of the pics??

Basically after that thread, there wasn't anybody (except for trulyhuge/gethuge or whoever the token arnold hater is) after that thread that didn't think Arnold won

[Larfleeze]

Everyone who places Zane ahead of Arnold ... i mean seriously ? haha.. most overrated bodybuilder ever. There are one or two guys in my gym that look better than Zane. Mentzer shouldn't have been 5th, but definitely shouldn't have won. Small flat chest, wide hips, narrow clavicles, gut. I place Mentzer 3rd, after Arnold & Dickerson.

Sure there are.

[RoroCwalker]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/543118_10152439148285105_1792828553_n.jpg

[Devils]

Where's that big ass thread on this topic with all of the pics??

Basically after that thread, there wasn't anybody (except for trulyhuge/gethuge or whoever the token arnold hater is) after that thread that didn't think Arnold won

that's what you get from posting in a 7 year old thread.

[trulyhuge1]

Where's that big ass thread on this topic with all of the pics??

Basically after that thread, there wasn't anybody (except for trulyhuge/gethuge or whoever the token arnold hater is) after that thread that didn't think Arnold won
Funny how there are others in this thread that feel the same way I do about both the 1980 and 1981 show huh.
Look, I am not an Arnold hater. He deserved most of his wins. I feel 1980 he just did not win and there were numerous factors that lead to his victory. I also feel Sergio was a superior bodybuilder to Arnold. That is all I have ever said. He is still an icon for the sport.....yes. His look in the '74 show was pretty damn cool. If I do not feel the same as the majority on the board then albeit. I also feel that a lot of people "join the crowd" because it is Arnold and, well, it's easy to join the crowd. I'm not here to start things at all. It is a discussion board and we all have opinions. It's what makes it great!

[sexnews]

Long ago I also bought into the Mentzer thing, but now with the net and all the pics, Arnold was the clear winner.

[Riflemancho]

Arnold just staned out. He was something else.

[pyrolee]

1:21:30

fNqR-Ifj7xQ#t=81m30s

1:21:30



















































































http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28773495.jpg

[RoroCwalker]

^
Holy wtf, I was going to post it right now

[pyrolee]

^
holy wtf, i was going to post it right nowthe greatest sh*tstorm of our time

[RoroCwalker]

Indeed, it is.

[Riflemancho]

We all know Dorian trained with Mentzer.

[jcrobles92]

after searching endlessly for Arnold's comments on Dorian all i could find was this;

Dorian Yates won the 1997 Mr. Olympia title. This was his sixth Olympia. At the press conference Pumping Iron director George Butler asked the Brutal Brit about equaling Arnold Schwarzenegger's seven-titles haul, Dorian responded: "Arnold who?" and added "If he still needs the address of a good tailor, I'll give him one.

That was an obvious response to Arnold's August 1997 issue of Flex interview, in which The Oak severely castigated modern bodybuilding and Mr. Yates especially.


anyone have that issue?

[trulyhuge1]

We all know Dorian trained with Mentzer.
What's your point? Does that say he isn't entitled to an opinion?

[Riflemancho]

You know exactly my point. If Dorian trained with Arnold he would say that Arnold won it clearly.

[trulyhuge1]

You know exactly my point. If Dorian trained with Arnold he would say that Arnold won it clearly.
I think his opinion clashing with yours or others might be bothering you. Just a little. ;)