Natty guys.....what is your overall supp plan?

[John Prophet]

just interested in seeing the different approaches people take


how does your supplement usage change throughout the year

creatine? fat burners? stiff like "jungle warfare" or "animal pump" etc?


how does your cutting phase differ from your gaining phases etc as far as supplements?


Thanks, JP

[rich55]

A natural bodybuilder supplement routine precontest or offseason would not differ than that of any other bodybuilder. Creatine is a staple, whether cutting or bulking. I've been using Lipo-6, Lean Green and ALCAR to cut. Jungle Warfare is a prohormone, so that is a no-go.

Personally, I supplement to the fullest since I'm natural. I think spending a few hundred dollars more during your precontest prep in particular is well worth it considering you train all year to peak and look your best. Natural bodybuilders don't have test and other AAS to preserve muscle, so we need to supplement a little more in my opinion to hang.

Check out my supps on my bodyspace page if interested.

[Quelly]

I've always got creatine, whey, multi....when money isnt prohibitive I'll add in BCAAs, and some of the tried and true test boosters like hyperdrol, mass fx, or activate. Also I'm gonna try out AP...looks pretty awesome...

during contest prep I was on Mass FX and Hyperdrol for the first month to prevent any muscle wasting during that initial phase where my body has to get used to less carbs....and I'm using 4 nitrotropic and 5 tetra to keep my workout intensity...and if the money was there I'd probably use a fat burner....dialene 4 I'd love to try

[warbird00]

I've always got creatine, whey, multi....when money isnt prohibitive I'll add in BCAAs, and some of the tried and true test boosters like hyperdrol, mass fx, or activate. Also I'm gonna try out AP...looks pretty awesome...

during contest prep I was on Mass FX and Hyperdrol for the first month to prevent any muscle wasting during that initial phase where my body has to get used to less carbs....and I'm using 4 nitrotropic and 5 tetra to keep my workout intensity...and if the money was there I'd probably use a fat burner....dialene 4 I'd love to try

has dialene 4 not come out yet?

[Quelly]

has dialene 4 not come out yet?

very soon I'm told

[John Prophet]

JW is on the "illegal" lists for natty comps?

what about animal pump etc?

interesting....personally I have always drawn the line of being natural at whats available over the counter

[Quelly]

JW is on the "illegal" lists for natty comps?

what about animal pump etc?

interesting....personally I have always drawn the line of being natural at whats available over the counter

its different from federation to federation...as a general rule anything that is an exogeneous hormone or a serm that you can get otc is banned in most organizations...and ephedra

[ntrllftr]

I use to take everything under the sun while training for a show or on the "off season" BUT this past year I decided to just eat right and train as hard as I could with taking only multi vitamins and some protein drinks due to time at work and easy to take in.

Conclusion:
My show is in 3 weeks and I feel and look just as good as when I took all those supplements. So I do not know if I will use them again unless I get them for free most likely. My mind might change who knows. Us bb'rs can be so indecisive at times.

[GSOgymrat]

I'm so skeptical when it comes to suppliments. Actually I'm skeptical when it comes to pretty much everything... Anyway, I take a multivitamin, protein powder, fish oil and I've started taking creatine because there appears to be some clinical data supporting it. I would be interested is reading double-blind clinical trials for other natural suppliments.

[VenomX]

Stick with the proven products, protein, creatine, n.o product, fish oils etc. And a thermo for fat burning if its allowed. I also ran Activate and Rebound this offseason with good results. I'm running Lean Extreme while dieting,helps preserve muscle and keeps me mellow. All these other gimmicky products will just lighten your wallet and aren't worth it.

Besides your diet has the biggest effect on your appearance, supplements are just there for support, they won't make or break you, but your diet will.

[Razmoneyrecords]

I treat supplementation in a literal sense. When I'm eating ample calories in the off season, I stick with whey and a multi, and that's it. Let whole foods do all the work.

In a caloric deficit during competition season I go with : Whey, mutli, ALA, Lean green, Xtend (altho, I would take this during the off season if money allowed, bcaas are just smart business), sesamin, and creatine. I've found by only using one cycle of creatine a year, it really makes a big impact on my strength, and offsets some of the effects of the caloric deficit. I know studies say with just 4 to 8 weeks between you can jump back on and have it be effective, so maybe it's placebo affect for me, only using it once a year.

[liftjunkie06]

I do the following:

cytogainer
basic whey
optibol
creatine
taurine, glutamine, and arginine aminos
Nitrojack (vitamin shoppe rip-off of NoXplode)
multi's, b-complex, calcium/mag, vit c, vit e
flax oil
Redline--when cutting
Green tea, always

[wnbfwarriorpro]

MHP Trac Extreme NO, MHP Secretegogue, MHP T Bomb 2, Udo's Choice 369 blend,
USP Labs Supercissus rx

[rich55]

JW is on the "illegal" lists for natty comps?

what about animal pump etc?

interesting....personally I have always drawn the line of being natural at whats available over the counter

No, over the counter does not mean its okay. JW, Mass FX, Hyperdrol (6-Bromodione?), Lean Xtreme all have ingredients in them banned.

[VenomX]

No, over the counter does not mean its okay. JW, Mass FX, Hyperdrol (6-Bromodione?), Lean Xtreme all have ingredients in them banned.

What does Lean Xtreme have in it that is banned?

[Quelly]

No, over the counter does not mean its okay. JW, Mass FX, Hyperdrol (6-Bromodione?), Lean Xtreme all have ingredients in them banned.


I don't think Mass Fx has anything in it that's banned...and I'm pretty sure 6 bromo isnt banned yet either...unless I missed something

[rich55]

What does Lean Xtreme have in it that is banned?

7-OH? (7-Hydroxy-deyhydroepiandrosterone). I specifically was told by a rep not to take for tested shows just in case.

Mass FX

(3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

Yet, is the key word with these types of ingredients. They may or may not be YET, but one shouldn't take the chance or tap dance around particulars with tested shows.

[Quelly]

7-OH? (7-Hydroxy-deyhydroepiandrosterone). I specifically was told by a rep not to take for tested shows just in case.

Mass FX

(3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

Yet, is the key word with these types of ingredients. They may or may not be YET, but one shouldn't take the chance or tap dance around particulars with tested shows.

glad to know that YET is the key word...I already have to wait until august until I can compete in the INBF because of PH use (1 year off rule) I would hate to have pushed back my 1 year even farther because I didn't know that Mass Fx had a banned compound in it...well no biggie I pretty much only use whey, bcaas, multis, creatine, fish oils, the epic stack and trying out ap....should be solid

[demonwareltd]

I found cutting/bulking I tend to stay with very similar supps...

Whey Protein
Casein Protein - bulk only
Animal Pak - cut only
Mega Man multi - bulk only
Green Magnitude
Purple Wraath
ZMA
Fish Oil - bulk only
Flax Oil - cut only
NO Product - typically White blood, but trying Nitrix in a week or two
Glycergrow - bulk only
Green Tea
Fat Burners (Hot Rox, but right now I'm trying to cut without them)

[joe447]

Currently I am using:

Whey Protein
Now Adam Multi
Fish Oil
Creatine
Glutamine
BCAA's
ZMA
Hotrox

[Lando33]

White Flood
BCAA
L-glutamine
Multi-Vitamin
Fish Oil
Sesaglow
Liver Tabs
CEE
ZMA
sportpharma Whey
Dymatize Elite Whey - Banana Flavor
Substance WPI - Watermelon Flavor
syntrax Matrix 5.0 Cookies and Cream Protein Powder

[Blimp2Pimp]

whey
creatine (kre-alkalyn...best IMO)
glutamine (10-15g bulking, 20-30 cutting)
multi
vitamin e
vitamin c (3g/day...keeps the docs away!)
fish oil tabs (180mg DHA, 120 EPA)...4/day
ZMA at night...

can't afford BCAA's...but the best supplement out there...gotta be caffeine!

I love the workouts I get with kre-alkalyn stacked with 200-400mg caffeine, most insane intensity and stamina...I pretty much only rest 15-20 second between sets, and get in and out in 30 min..

the best part is, I have never gotten so many comments from ppl asking if I'm on juice or any pro hormone, just a lot of food, dedication, and not over training :)

[rich55]

glad to know that YET is the key word...I already have to wait until august until I can compete in the INBF because of PH use (1 year off rule) I would hate to have pushed back my 1 year even farther because I didn't know that Mass Fx had a banned compound in it...well no biggie I pretty much only use whey, bcaas, multis, creatine, fish oils, the epic stack and trying out ap....should be solid

Email inbf@epix.net just to be sure...seriously.

[The_Real_XN]

WAIT -- we're called "natty" now?

When did THAT happen?

I'm kinda worried I may not actually BE as cool as all that . . .

[Vadim Beliaev]

What i believe is this:
Supplementation is just like investment banking, the more you invest (backed up with proper research), the more you can get out of it in the end. So it really boils down to one's financial status.
Let me give you an example:
Say someone is on a limited budget (assume equal genetics, work ethic and knowledge for both individuals) and can only afford a whey protein supplement, a creatine supplement and a multivitamin.
Now compare him to someone who can pretty much get anything he can get his hands on and will supplement as follows:
Morning : 20 g BCAA + 20 g glutamine + 10 g HMB, magnesium + B complex.
To each meal add 10 g BCAA + digestive enzyme supplement + probiotic supplement.
Preworkout add a booster something like Shock Therapy, + 20 g BCAA + antioxidants.
Postworkout Vitargo + Liquid hydrolysed aminos + BCAA + Creatine supplement
At bed time add Arginine + Ornithine + Lysine supplement (10 grams each), ZMA, + melatonin + slow release protein.

Who do you think will get better results?

So really, in my view the more supplements, the better, as much as you can afford. And most importantly, do your research, and avoid obviously bunk products, like natural sterols etc.

[Quelly]

Email inbf@epix.net just to be sure...seriously.

you know...I'm not too concerned about it....if I was to turn pro the WNBF wouldnt allow me to compete in any other orgs...and the biggest org in cali is the INBA, there is only one INBF show in cali this year too...not too interested in the INBF to be honest....

[Luvdogs]

I use the following:

Creatine Monohydrate
Whey protein powder
Xtend (love, love, love it)
All One (powdered multi vit/min supplement)
Calcium Citrate

That's pretty much it. I have tried SAN V-12 and SuperPump 250, but didn't feel I got anything out of than my normal training so I stopped taking them and stick with the basics.

[TJ_Strong]

White Flood
BCAA
L-glutamine
Multi-Vitamin
Fish Oil
Sesaglow
Liver Tabs
CEE
ZMA
sportpharma Whey
Dymatize Elite Whey - Banana Flavor
Substance WPI - Watermelon Flavor
syntrax Matrix 5.0 Cookies and Cream Protein Powder

What is that some sex enhancer?

hahaha

[tigerstyle3000]

white flood is a pre-workout NO enhancer-

true mass
animal pak
flax oil(im gonna start fish oil next)
green bulge
NO-xplode(white flood next)
black hole

[joe447]

A friend of mine is taking Animal Pump. I heard that it is banned for natty's is this true?

[John Prophet]

dunno....but I am pretty sick of putting in tons of hard work only to see low gains because of lowered test levels

[Cytrainer913]

I've always got creatine, whey, multi....when money isnt prohibitive I'll add in BCAAs, and some of the tried and true test boosters like hyperdrol, mass fx, or activate. Also I'm gonna try out AP...looks pretty awesome...

during contest prep I was on Mass FX and Hyperdrol for the first month to prevent any muscle wasting during that initial phase where my body has to get used to less carbs....and I'm using 4 nitrotropic and 5 tetra to keep my workout intensity...and if the money was there I'd probably use a fat burner....dialene 4 I'd love to try

I guess this means natural shows are out of the question for you with what you have listed above. I know anything and everything is fine with the NPC! Hyperdrol would illegal as well!

[Cytrainer913]

All of these banned hormones like the Hot rox, and any A-7 compounds, and the DHEA/7 keto products are banned for some reason, why risk your health just to take these when their end result could really mess up the liver and other vital organs!

Take your BCAAS-I use Xtend
Creatine-something simple-I use AST micronized creatine
A good NO 2 Product like Labrada's Supercharge or Scivation's VasoXplode
A good whey Isolate-AST's VP2 or Primaforce Substance
A good mixed protein source-I love my Beverly's Ultra Size and UMP's Cookies and Cream
I use what I consider the best Multi-Vitamin out there called PHARMANEX Life Pack
Track your numbers and be precise with each and every day, refeeds are key and are not full of cheat foods but extra carbs to keep your metabolism going.

I also switch over to quite a few Beverly Product at the 8 weeks out mark as they are quite expensive even through ***!

[joe447]

All of these banned hormones like the Hot rox, and any A-7 compounds, and the DHEA/7 keto products are banned for some reason, why risk your health just to take these when their end result could really mess up the liver and other vital organs!

Take your BCAAS-I use Xtend
Creatine-something simple-I use AST micronized creatine
A good NO 2 Product like Labrada's Supercharge or Scivation's VasoXplode
A good whey Isolate-AST's VP2 or Primaforce Substance
A good mixed protein source-I love my Beverly's Ultra Size and UMP's Cookies and Cream
I use what I consider the best Multi-Vitamin out there called PHARMANEX Life Pack
Track your numbers and be precise with each and every day, refeeds are key and are not full of cheat foods but extra carbs to keep your metabolism going.

I also switch over to quite a few Beverly Product at the 8 weeks out mark as they are quite expensive even through ***!

I thought hotrox wasnt banned. I mean it doesn't have ephedra in it which i know is banned.

[Cytrainer913]

Hot rox and Redline I think were 2 thats were now banned with this A-7 in it!

[joe447]

Hot rox and Redline I think were 2 thats were now banned with this A-7 in it!

well dam i wanted to be a natty! hmmmm could i still do it? but on http://www.naturalbodybuilding.com/ it doesn't say anything about A-7. I mean Im not doubting you by anymeans Im just saying that I cant find it on here.

[Quelly]

I guess this means natural shows are out of the question for you with what you have listed above. I know anything and everything is fine with the NPC! Hyperdrol would illegal as well!

hyperdrol is not banned...your thinking superdrol or halodrol....hyperdrol has 6 bromodiene in it...which is a non banned (as of now) aromatase inhibitor plus cissus...and mass fx doens't have anything that is banned, its basically activate plus some other herbs....I've spoken with the president of the NGA and emailed the INBA specifically about them....I can't compete in the INBF until august because I did use superdrol last year and finished up in august...and you need a 1 year clean of phs/ps to compete in the INBF...spoke to a judge and a promoter about that...but according to the NGA president and the INBA that's not a problem in their orgs

EDIT just checked the INBF list to be sure...yeah hyperdrol and mass fx aren't banned...although I bet hyperdrol may be soon...but mass fx I don't see why or how they could ban it...its herbs....BUT apparently its 2 years that I can't compete, not 1....no biggie...theres only 1 INBF show in cali anyway, and I don't like that if you turn pro in the WNBF, athletes are banned from competing in other orgs....if I was to turn pro in the NGA or the INBA I could compete in both...and there are A LOT of INBA shows here

[Quelly]

well dam i wanted to be a natty! hmmmm could i still do it? but on http://www.naturalbodybuilding.com/ it doesn't say anything about A-7. I mean Im not doubting you by anymeans Im just saying that I cant find it on here.

your fine, the INBA doenst ban it....the only natty shows cytrainer competes in are WNBF, they are more strict with what they ban....the INBA actually lets you use ephedra up to i think 20 weeks from a show, and the NGA allows ephedra use...and I don't either have banned the lesser known phs/ps or the anti estrogen stuff

the NGA and the INBA just go by the IOC standards and FDA standards....but they enforce the 6/1 ratio of testosterone to estrogen....so even if its not banned, if your using prohormones and prosteriods and anti estrogens up to the show you'll get popped...and then there is the OCB which is about as strict as the INBF for Phs/PS and anti estrogens...but allows ephedra, dhea, 7 keto dhea and 6 oxo

NGA http://www.nationalgym.com/nga/information.php?info_id=29
INBA http://www.naturalbodybuilding.com/bannedsub/
INBF http://www.inbf.net/drugfree.html
OCB http://www.theocbwebsite.com/BannedSubstances.htm

so basically the message is the rules are all very different organization to organization....creatine whey and a multi are always solid....most other things you gotta double check...

[coloBB]

ZMA
Trib
Creatine
AAKG powder
NOW Multi
Ecdysterone
Lipo 6
Fish oils
Protien Powder
Xtend

[Cytrainer913]

well dam i wanted to be a natty! hmmmm could i still do it? but on http://www.naturalbodybuilding.com/ it doesn't say anything about A-7. I mean Im not doubting you by anymeans Im just saying that I cant find it on here.

This was in the newest Natural bodybuilding and Fitness magazine, the may 2007 issue, for the INBF/NANBF/WNBF!

[Quelly]

This was in the newest Natural bodybuilding and Fitness magazine, the may 2007 issue, for the INBF/NANBF/WNBF!

yeah it is banned in those organizations but not in the other organizations and specifically not in the INBA so to the OP of the guy worried about being to compete in the INBA show...you are good to go

[The_Real_XN]

you know...I'm not too concerned about it....if I was to turn pro the WNBF wouldnt allow me to compete in any other orgs...and the biggest org in cali is the INBA, there is only one INBF show in cali this year too...not too interested in the INBF to be honest....

So RARE to see a bodybuilder remain discerning.

Nice job not buying too much hype.

Well done.

[Quelly]

So RARE to see a bodybuilder remain discerning.

Nice job not buying too much hype.

Well done.

thanks...and....well its just impractical where their shows are and ridiculous that they don't allow cross federation competition....its not like they are offering IFBB pro level money, I don't see where they get off, and I think it only hurts the sport of bodybuilding as a whole

[SB100%Natural]

I'm so skeptical when it comes to suppliments. Actually I'm skeptical when it comes to pretty much everything... Anyway, I take a multivitamin, protein powder, fish oil and I've started taking creatine because there appears to be some clinical data supporting it. I would be interested is reading double-blind clinical trials for other natural suppliments.

Couldn't agree more... I say keep it basic.

These days I use a multi-vit, whey protein, omega fish oils capsules and now and then creatine.

I've used and "wasted" so much money on supps it's not funny. I can honestly say I've never actually noticed any benefits what so ever whilst taking a supp. Creatine is the only supp which I had any sort of beneficial reaction to. By beneficial I mean has a "noticeable" positive effect. You can take all the supps in the world but if you don't get any effect from them then whats the point?

[Muscle4]

Is Animal Pump banned for any reason in the NGA, INBA, or OCB??

[RBEliminator]

My major supplement of choice... Is Nutrient Timing :)

And of course the FINE supps put out by CL

[BrutusBeefy]

I found cutting/bulking I tend to stay with very similar supps...

Whey Protein
Casein Protein - bulk only
Animal Pak - cut only
Mega Man multi - bulk only
Green Magnitude
Purple Wraath
ZMA
Fish Oil - bulk only
Flax Oil - cut only
NO Product - typically White blood, but trying Nitrix in a week or two
Glycergrow - bulk only
Green Tea
Fat Burners (Hot Rox, but right now I'm trying to cut without them)


Hey demon...just curious why arent you taking casein during cut too?
I am dieting again and im using casein at night and thats it...just curious to see what anyone says why we shouldnt use it...?

[tosca]

has dialene 4 not come out yet?

dialene 4........daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa bomb.

[tosca]

WAIT -- we're called "natty" now?

When did THAT happen?

I'm kinda worried I may not actually BE as cool as all that . . .

natty headed bros

[chuckles_345]

Being a poor college student, most of my money goes towards food which is the most important thing anyway. I do however take a few supps:

Whey Protein
Creatine
BCAA's (when cutting)
Sesamin (when cutting)
Multi

Its not much but it gets the job done and allows me to have money to keep my diet where it needs to be.

Chuckles

[VenomX]

natty headed bros

oh snap somebody alert the media!

[NaturaLPumP]

All you need is the right foods, a solid protien powder, and some decent creatine. ( and all your vitamins of course ). I personally have never used a fat burner pre contest, I think they are way over hyped. imo

[John Prophet]

wassup yo?? Im all natty and stuff

[The_Real_XN]

natty headed bros

Shameless blogger self-promotion . . .
http://blog.bodybuilding.com/The_Real_XN/2007/03/21/the-sport-of-natty-bobing-or-when-did-i-become-natty/

[DJINN]

WAIT -- we're called "natty" now?

When did THAT happen?

I'm kinda worried I may not actually BE as cool as all that . . .

X2...read your blog and I agree...I just don't think I pull off the whole "natty" thing. Maybe I'm just too old...

[kazman32]

X2...read your blog and I agree...I just don't think I pull off the whole "natty" thing. Maybe I'm just too old...


I think 'natty' is such a stupid word, natural isn't that long of a word, and sounds much better/formal.

[John Prophet]

comes partially from the widespread usage of the word "natty" for peanut butter

[kazman32]

comes partially from the widespread usage of the word "natty" for peanut butter


Lol I know people are to lazy to say natural peanut-butter..it just sounds sill y to me, guess I'm showing my age.

[warbird00]

is activaTe banned in most natty orgs??
when i compete i will probably be compeating in the INBA

also surprised that more ppl arent using X Factor

[tosca]

comes partially from the widespread usage of the word "natty" for peanut butter


hmmmm...i always thought it came from "natty bo" (national bohemian beer).

cause you know how all the body builders get freaky with the beer.

[billfinkbiner]

This was in the newest Natural bodybuilding and Fitness magazine, the may 2007 issue, for the INBF/NANBF/WNBF!

I stopped reading Natural Bodybuilding and Fitness when they banned Dave "Texas Shredder" Goodin for appearing in Ironman and garnering the WNBF a lot of exposure. How theycould do that is beyond me. Then i read about Rob Hope leaving them as well do to the lower quality of the World Championship shows. When your former and reigning world champs leave while still in their prime, something just isn't right. I used to look forward to the next issue of that magazine, now I won't even take it off the rack and look at the cover.

On the other hand, Cytrainer you have an awesome physique no matter where you choose to compete, and I enjoy all the info you post in these forums.

[chris08]

Currently taking

Whey
Sesamin
BCAA
Omega 3
Multi
Shock Therapy
Glutamine
Hydroxycut

If everything goes well, I might do my first competition late this yr.

[The_Real_XN]

comes partially from the widespread usage of the word "natty" for peanut butter

Okay . . . WHAT?!

Wait wait wait . . .

So, what you're telling me is that there was some random social consciousness to bring -- ahem -- PEANUT BUTTER into the realm of uber-cool, suburban-white-boy, post-marketing neo-gangsta-rap lingo?!

I had NO IDEA that SUCH an image deterioration problem was occuring due the mere mention of sandwich spreads! I must look REALLY out of it. I can only imagine how much my popularity has been negatively affected by daring to use the full word -- gasp! - MAYONNAISE!

Meanwhile, I am NOT sure which part is MORE disturbing:

The fact that there were actually guys who felt their coolness was LESSENED based on what they called peanut butter . . .

OR, the implication that I may now be classified under the same heirarchy which includes "creamy" and "chunky".

(Or is it "cree" and "n-kay" now?!)

We truly are a sad, sorry bunch of little boys sometimes . . .

Sigh . . . and they wonder why I so often fear the future . . .

[The_Real_XN]

i always thought it came from "natty bo" (national bohemian beer).

cause you know how all the body builders get freaky with the beer.
Well, based on how we're speaking lately, one might wonder . . .

[The_Real_XN]

I stopped reading Natural Bodybuilding and Fitness . . . When your former and reigning world champs leave while still in their prime, something just isn't right.

But meanwhile, I'm so often told (by the zhombie clones of the INBF/WNBF swim team -- er -- bodybuilding league) that I am off base by saying the natural leagues really are a mess.

Combined, the natural leagues (NGA, INBF, OCB, etc., etc.) may hold the largest COMBINED market demographic, but they are all a bunch of squabbling chickens. Meanwhile, because of this we're stuck following the warped and back-asswards standards held by that sorry old self-imploding monster, the NPC -- standards which are neither academically sound nor reasonably sportsmanlike.

Sigh.

Apologies for picking up on billfinkbiner's tangent (I know THIS is not the thread for this line of discussion). But it's hard to hold back the editorializing. My hunch is that there are many veterans in the sport who privately think this way . . . but that is just a hunch, nothing more.

Yet.