primaFORCE Cissus log (sponsored)

[TexAss]

First off, thanks to Beast and the Scivation/PForce crew for the opportunity.

I received from them one bottle of the new primaFORCE Cissus extract to test. It is extracted for 40% total Ketosterones & 20% 3-ketosterone.

Background/History:
I have had shoulder issues ever since a golf injury (yes, golf) in college (~9 years ago). A bad swing popped my shoulder out of socket (I think) and I did not go to the doctor to have it checked out. Fast forward to January '05: started lifting again seriously and was getting pains in the shoulder and finally decided to get it checked out. Five sports medicine docs later and they say I have RC Tendonitis. Their solution: NSAIDs and therapy. The NSAIDs helped a ton and taking a break from lifting did too, the therapy was nothing more than the RC exercises you'd find on the internet, so I stopped going but continued to do the exercises.

I took SAN's Bone Boost at the same time as taking Mobic and this seemed to help a ton. I followed that up with USP Labs' CissusRX (no longer on Mobic) and again saw relief from my almost constant dull achey shoulder.

I do RC exercises prior to any lifting and have also recently added to that scapula stability work. I have learned to do certain lifts (Mil Press & Bench) in a certain manner to avoid making the shoulder worse.

Given my past success with Cissus I am very excited to give this new extraction a test. If successful it will probably become a staple.

I'll take my first dose in about 20 minutes (waiting for an empty stomach).

[bongd]

Looking forward to your feedback on this one, man! :D

[TexAss]

Looking forward to your feedback on this one, man! :D

Thanks.




I should also note that I generally have pretty ****ty recovery. This will be something that I will pay close attention to.

[House72]

Good luck with the LOG..

I myself, have had 2 shoulder surgeries. They both sucked, laid up for a while (3 years total). I came across Cissus after my second surgery, been using it since, works good IMO... I still have some of the old stuff, Im contemplating on buying the new stuff, reason being right shoulder is been sore for a while now. I over compesnated for the left and hurt the right, which sucks.. Mentally, never the same after surgery, for me anyways.. SO, Im excited to see your results with Super Cissus, I hope it works well. Will be looking for updates.. Detailed ones too.

[TexAss]

Day 1 (initial thoughts):

Not much to report as far as what I'm feeling on the Cissus, I think it is too early anyway.

Had my Push workout which is usually the most aggrivating to the shoulder.

Prior to workout shoulder felt: achey, like normal
During workout: after warmup it felt pretty good
Post workout: Slightly more achey than before but not bad enough to ice

Recovery during workout: Normal

I might note that I had a very disconnnected feeling most of the day, like my head was 4 feet above my body. I don't think this is necessarily attributable to the Cissus, however. Could Cissus have some blood pressure modulation properties?

Details on my workout can be found here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1352141

The workout will be on page 4.

If you guys would prefer I can copy/paste them here. I'm not sure how much info you want in here.

[TexAss]

Day 2:

Off day.

Shoulder felt pretty much as it has in the recent past. Not horrible, more annoying than anything.

Recovery from last workout: Not too sore, although I typically get the worst of my DOMS late on the 2nd day from training.

Weight this morning revealed no change from last week. I will soon take caliper and tape measurements to try and keep track of composition changes.

[Lencho]

Mmmm... Cissus. :)

[bench350]

whats your mg dose per day?

[TexAss]

whats your mg dose per day?

I am taking 2 capsules 2 x a day like the bottle suggests at 1g per serving.

So, 2g per day.

[TexAss]

Day 3:

Shoulder felt a bit funky upon waking, I might have slept on it funny or something.
Felt better by lunchtime.

Pre-workout: Felt pretty good, no stiffness or ache.
During workout: Tried Pendlay Rows with deloading at the bottom of the movement. This is no good for me. With the deloading I lost track of keeping my shoulder in proper form. These aggrivated the shoulder. I probably won't do them again, I'll stick with standard bent over rows.
Post workout: Achey because of the workout. Stayed with me the rest of the evening.

I think it should be said that my shoulder was feeling good and the movement was what bothered it. I don't want to cloud the testing because of this so I want it in the open.

[TexAss]

Current Measurements:
Waist (1" above bellybutton)........33
1.5-2" below bellybutton..............36
Rt Arm......................................12.75
Lt Arm......................................12.5
Rt 4Arm....................................11.25
Lt 4Arm....................................11
Wrists......................................6
Rt Calf......................................14.5
Lt Calf......................................14.25
Rt Thigh....................................23.25
Lt Thigh....................................23.25
Neck @ AA................................13
Neck @ collar.............................16


Quoted from my workout journal.

[DerekJ]

Thanks for the log. I recently started Cissus to help my Rotator Cuff issues as well.


Quick question,
Do you do internal and external rotations(dumbell or cable) on the days you workout?

[TexAss]

Quick question,
Do you do internal and external rotations(dumbell or cable) on the days you workout?

Yes, even on leg days.

PUSH days:
internal/external rotations, usually cable
cuban rotations
pushups (for scapula stability as well as warmup for BP)

PULL days:
internal/external rotations, usually cable
cuban rotations
face pulls (for scapula stability as well as warmup for rows)

LEG days:
internal/external rotations, usually cable
cuban rotations

[TexAss]

Day 4:

Off day.

Shoulder: unchanged so far, maybe due to the rows the other day.

Recovery: DOMS don't seem too bad this week. I am in week 4 of my current routine and they typically taper off in the latter stages. I'll probably do something next week to mix it up a little bit to test this out.

Energy seems very good this week.

I probably won't post in here again until Monday but I'll keep a close eye on things and make notes if needed of things to post at that update.

Oh, yeah, legs day today, joy.

[TexAss]

Days 5-7:

Leg workout on Friday. Also did RC work prior.

Shoulder felt good all weekend. Only issues were Saturday night carrying a drink around for whatever reason made my shoulder sore. I will have to play with this and see, I think I remember it happening before.

DOMS from Friday were non-existant Sunday morning for the most part. I'm pretty sure that Cissus is helping my recovery. I also think that all the walking I did Saturday night (carnival) served somewhat as active recovery.

I am too tall for carnival rides...

[TexAss]

Day 8:

Push workout

Shoulder felt good (an improvement) during the day leading up to the workout.

Did normal warmup, internal/external rotations, cuban presses, neutral grip pushups.

Shoulder did well during workout despite adding reps or weight to every exercise.

Slight tightness in the shoulder afterwards but no pain.

Official weigh in tomorrow but it looks like I have gained more weight in the last week compared to the month prior...

[TexAss]

Day 9

Shoulder has improved. It is stiff in the mornings but that dissipated by the time I am fully awake (~30 mins).

Weigh-in revealed only a 1 lb increase in the past week. I jumped the gun a little on that one. Two large dumps yesterday did away with what looked like it was going to be a 3-4 lb increase.

Took some BF readings. I'm new to the whole caliper measurements (doing it myself, that is) so if my first few readings come back screwey, we'll know why. I took the measurements 3 times at each site and averaged them.

Abdomen: 28mm
Chest: 8mm
Thigh: 16mm

Which gives me a reading of 16%. People generally add 3 to that number so we can say I'm probably 17-19%.

[TexAss]

Day 10:

Again, shoulder has felt markedly better in general.

Felt good throughout my Pull workout and after.

Still have DOMS from Monday's workout, can't tell if it has impacted this for sure.

[DallasLynx]

Day 10:

Again, shoulder has felt markedly better in general.

Felt good throughout my Pull workout and after.

Still have DOMS from Monday's workout, can't tell if it has impacted this for sure.

So it sounds like the Cissus is working for you. I may need to buy some and try it out on the hip.

[TexAss]

So it sounds like the Cissus is working for you. I may need to buy some and try it out on the hip.

So far so good.


I'll post a more detailed update on Monday.

[TexAss]

Sorry about yesterday. I was super busy.


Days 11-14:

Unless I do something to aggrivate the shoulder it does not hurt at all. Great improvement.

I get no pain while warming up or doing any lifts unless I do it wrong, heh.

So far so good. I'll continue to pay attention to recovery and possible leaning out.

My strength is improving at the normal rate (slowly). And my weight gains have not changed so far (from what I've been gaining in the last 4-5 weeks).

I can't tell that Cissus is helping me with recovery so far, although my DOMS seem to be less intense but the duration of them is the same. It could be said that this is because I'm in the 6th week of this training regime...

[Beast]

Sounds like your shoulder is getting a little better, good to hear.


Sorry about yesterday. I was super busy.


Days 11-14:

Unless I do something to aggrivate the shoulder it does not hurt at all. Great improvement.

I get no pain while warming up or doing any lifts unless I do it wrong, heh.

So far so good. I'll continue to pay attention to recovery and possible leaning out.

My strength is improving at the normal rate (slowly). And my weight gains have not changed so far (from what I've been gaining in the last 4-5 weeks).

I can't tell that Cissus is helping me with recovery so far, although my DOMS seem to be less intense but the duration of them is the same. It could be said that this is because I'm in the 6th week of this training regime...

[TexAss]

Sounds like your shoulder is getting a little better, good to hear.

It is great. As I noted at the beginning of the log, prior to taking the Cissus, I had a pretty much constant dull achey pain. It is gone now 99% of the time. In the past when I took SAN's Bone Boost and USP's CissusRX, I had similar results but I don't think it took affect as fast or as complete.

I am very pleased.

[TexAss]

Day 15:

Shoulder still feels good.

DOMS seem to be lessening. I am about to change up a few things and we'll see if that holds.

Here is my post updating my weight and BF%:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=26805161&postcount=170

2.8 lbs up is more than I've gained in a week in the past 6. We'll see if that pans out to be a trend.

[TexAss]

Days 16-18:

Things are going well. My shoulder was a bit tweaky last night but I had a pretty stressful day at work so maybe I was just tensed up a bit. It feels fine today.

Lats are pretty sore from Wed. workout. Abs are not despite weight increase on Cable Crunches. It seems like maybe the Cissus is helping with DOMS. Again, my training will change up a bit next week so we'll see. I'll try to keep a better eye on DOMS. I'll also be lowering my rest between sets so I can pay attention to that detail of recovery. I generally have pretty good recovery in that aspect but bad in the longer run.

[Beast]

Day 15:

Shoulder still feels good.

DOMS seem to be lessening. I am about to change up a few things and we'll see if that holds.

Here is my post updating my weight and BF%:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=26805161&postcount=170

2.8 lbs up is more than I've gained in a week in the past 6. We'll see if that pans out to be a trend.


Nice gains!

[TexAss]

Nice gains!

Thanks, it looks like this week is sizing up to be similar, har har.



Update:

Things are going well. Shoulder still feeling good, better than it has in a long while.

I'm super curious about maybe trying a cissus/elastamine combo, although with the way cissus is working currently it isn't needed.

[cooper8]

Thanks, it looks like this week is sizing up to be similar, har har.



Update:

Things are going well. Shoulder still feeling good, better than it has in a long while.

I'm super curious about maybe trying a cissus/elastamine combo, although with the way cissus is working currently it isn't needed.

Keep us posted- I am really thinking about trying this product. I have a biceps tendon that bugs me constantly.

[TexAss]

Last night I did Push Presses for the first time in a long time.

I was sure that I would have to ice my shoulder after doing them. Good news: no ache at all! I am extremely surprised.

Weight and BF updates tomorrow.

[Beast]

I'm super curious about maybe trying a cissus/elastamine combo, although with the way cissus is working currently it isn't needed.

This is what I am doing now and all my joints feel great! I had been stalling on bench press because my shoulder joints and elbows weren't 100%, but now I am progressing well (Hit 315 X 3 for 3 sets on Monday. My goal is to get 365 X 3).

[TexAss]

This is what I am doing now and all my joints feel great! I had been stalling on bench press because my shoulder joints and elbows weren't 100%, but now I am progressing well (Hit 315 X 3 for 3 sets on Monday. My goal is to get 365 X 3).

Good stuff, Beast.


Here's my weight/bf update:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=28480081&postcount=212


Cissus: Things are going well. Joints are feeling good. Even with the change in workouts this week DOMS have been minimal so far. I have deads tomorrow so we'll see, they usually make me sore all over ;)

[TexAss]

Measurements:
.............................................OLD.. ....................NEW
Waist (1" above bellybutton)........33........................33.5
1.5-2" below bellybutton..............36....................... .36.5
Rt Arm......................................12.75.... ................13
Lt Arm......................................12.5..... .................12.75
Rt 4Arm....................................11.25..... ................11.25
Lt 4Arm....................................11........ .................11
Rt Calf......................................14.5.... ..................14.75
Lt Calf......................................14.25... ..................14.25
Rt Thigh....................................23.25.... .................24.125 (1/8)
Lt Thigh....................................23.25.... .................24

[TexAss]

I'm pretty sure I'm on day 26 now, somewhere around there.


All my joints are doing superb, shoulder included.

I did deads yesterday and I am sore in the upper back already. I'll make note of how long this lasts to try and compare to normal.



Beast: Is this in the store yet? If not, how long?

This is definitely going to become part of my staples. Two thumbs up! (wish I had more thumbs...)

[bongd]

I'm pretty sure I'm on day 26 now, somewhere around there.


All my joints are doing superb, shoulder included.

I did deads yesterday and I am sore in the upper back already. I'll make note of how long this lasts to try and compare to normal.



Beast: Is this in the store yet? If not, how long?

[b]This is definitely going to become part of my staples. Two thumbs up! (wish I had more thumbs...)[b]

Smart ass. lol

I'm in complete agreement, but I had used Cissus Rx so I can only imagine the wonders that primaForce cissus or Super Cissus Rx can do. If I had the funds, it'd be a staple for me as well. Nice to see how much you're liking it. :)

[TexAss]

I must have gotten a whole lot more than 120 caps in the bottle.

By the looks of it, without counting, I think I'll have enough for this log to go about 36 days maybe.

I'll keep updating until I run out.


Update:
Things are going great. Shoulder feels good.
I do think, based on last week only, that Cissus is helping me in the DOMS/recovery department. I'll continue to look at this.

[TexAss]

Update: I had the best shoulder workout I have had in a long time on Monday. No pain at all from it either (besides some minor DOMS, which I welcomed). I am super excited about this. My shoulders have always been a weak spot for me.

I don't remember the Cissus products I have used in the past helping this much. Maybe this has to do with the extract? I do remember them helping and being effective, that's why I was interested to test this to begin with, but I don't remember being this pain free. I do however know for sure that the USP Labs CissusRX worked best for me at double the dose. But still, this is more effective.

[TexAss]

Here's the workout details from my last (the good shoulder workout):
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=29909671&postcount=254

And here is the update on my weight/BF:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=30170601&postcount=262


I realized this morning that I wasn't stiff at all when I woke up this morning (in the shoulder, that is). And now that I think about it, I think it has been a few days since I felt that. Good stuff.

[TexAss]

6 hours of manual labor (digging, lifting/moving large rocks, lifting/moving 100s of bricks) on Saturday was tough but went well. I was tired but a whole lot less sore that I should have been.

I have to think that Cissus contributed. My recovery in that department is usually very very slow. We only took a couple of breaks during the 6 hours as well. I find that somewhat unusual. I had no problem keeping up.

I have run out of Cissus. I will post up a final review as well as my final weight/BF update on Wed.

[TexAss]

Weigh-in:
Week1: T Night: 183.4 __ W Morn: 180.2
Week2: T Night: 186.6 __ W Morn: 182.4
Week3: T Night: 188.2 __ W Morn: 184.0
Week4: T Night: 187.8 __ W Morn: 184.4
Week5: T Night: 188.6 __ W Morn: 185.4
Week6: T Night: 191.8 __ W Morn: 188.2
Week7: T Night: 193.2 __ W Morn: 190.0
Week8: T Night: 193.8 __ W Morn: 190.6
Week9: T Night: 192.4 __ W Morn: 190.4 (-0.2)

My BF readings are coming out weird. According to what I took this morning I'm supposed to have lost like 4lbs of muscle and gained 4lbs of fat... in a week. I don't think so. Maybe I'm retaining a bit of water or something. I'm going to take some extra potass today and recheck BF tomorrow morning.

Final weight update.

EDIT: I'd like to point out that I started taking Cissus in week4.

Review to follow.

[TexAss]

Given my past use with Cissus, I expected this product to work. What I didn't expect was for it to work so quickly and so thoroughly. With its use, my shoulder has been more pain free than it has in years.

I also experienced my largest and leanest gains while taking the product without changing other variables (diet, etc. the only changing variable would be weight). One could deduce that Cissus has some anabolic properties because of this. I think it stands to reason.

On the topic of Cissus having ergogenic aiding properties, I can't say definitively that it does/does not. My DOMS seem to be shorter in duration and hit me sooner than normal. I did not have my training set up in a way that I could accurately test inter-set recovery. One could argue that ergogenic properties would influence leaner/bigger gains as well. I can't say.

My ratings:
Joint Supplement: 10/10
Anabolic Supplement: 7/10
Ergogenic Aid: 6/10

Would I recommend this product to others? YES.
Will I continue to purchase/use this product? YES

Thanks to the Scivation/Primaforce crew for the opportunity. I hope that I have provided a decent, non-biased log.

[Absolution]

I like cissus. I normally use bulk.

Primaforce makes good products, I might have to try that soon.