Legal/ ethical/ practical question

[patkoch]

I have been training a 16 year old who is looking to gain muscle. His diet is great...Over the last months we have talked a lot about that, and I have him on a power-building program. Over four months he gained 12 lbs and has maintained his body fat levels. He is 6'6 and is the prototype ectomorph.

My question is, I believe he is a good candidate for creatine monohydrate... I know he would love to try it out, from what I understand as a pt reccomending supplements is illegal. Any tips, tricks, or should I juut leave it be.

[ericmackcarter]

I have been training a 16 year old who is looking to gain muscle. His diet is great...Over the last months we have talked a lot about that, and I have him on a power-building program. Over four months he gained 12 lbs and has maintained his body fat levels. He is 6'6 and is the prototype ectomorph.

My question is, I believe he is a good candidate for creatine monohydrate... I know he would love to try it out, from what I understand as a pt reccomending supplements is illegal. Any tips, tricks, or should I juut leave it be.

Honestly at 16, I'd just leave it be. However, when I want to recommend something, I say something like "talk to your doctor or RD about [this or that]". I'm not sure what the legality of it is. I do have a nutrition degree, so that might give me more room to breath, but not much without being an RD. I always defer to the expertise of a doctor or RD when it comes to topics of nutrition (or supplements), I think this is the responsible thing to do.

But this thread did raise a question, how are personal trainers, who typically do have basic (or more) training in nutrition not allowed to recommend supplements, but some chump who is hired off the street to work at GNC is allowed to. There has to be some way that it is legal to (responsibly) suggest supplement use. Any legal experts here?

[ob205]

Since it is a minor, you could say "I and other clients have used creatine with success, but it is up to your parents and you to decide." You can make a comment on a supplement, but I would not give out specific directions on how to take, etc.

[jeffsmith2]

I would just leave it be. At 16 there's no need for supplementation past protein powder/weight gain shakes depending what their goals are.

[patkoch]

I would just leave it be. At 16 there's no need for supplementation past protein powder/weight gain shakes depending what their goals are.


Well I mean its not like i'm suggesting something unproven. He is an athlete with potential height for high level college ball, yet his weight is his limiting factor. I think the need is justified and I would respectfully disagree, as creatine is directly in line with his goals.

[SamJorgensen91]

When I was 16, my trainer did the same thing I do to my clients today who want to play college and pro sports (I played in the Braves organization for a short time) : Ive seen a lot of results from people who take creatine (or whatever supplement). And leave it there.

[KyleAaron]

He needs to eat more good food.

He's a 16yo male. When people take vitamin T, they're trying to get the hormone profile of a 16yo male. He doesn't need creatine or anything else, he just needs good food. If he's not gaining weight, he's not eating enough. The purpose of appetite is your body's telling you, "and that is just enough to keep me the same size." Hunger means, "eat now or I'll have to get smaller." Being full means, "stop eating or I'll get bigger."

If you want to get smaller, you have to be slightly hungry some of the time. If you want to get bigger and still enjoy your food, you're not eating enough.

He needs to eat more good food.

[Simmo0508]

He doesn't need creatine just yet, he's only 16. Plenty of room to move before he has to worry about complications and add-ons.

Didn't know that it's illegal however to recommend certain supplements though. Specific nutrition plans are somewhat no-no's, but telling a client "how about giving creatine a go?" is fine. This 16yr old case aside.

[Awesome304]

You can always tell him about the product or cases with it. If it makes you more comfortable tell him that you're not telling him to take it or that he needs it. Personally, I think he's young enough that he doesn't necessarily need it though.

[rand18m]

You can make recommendations, you can't prescribe.

Whether or not you want to recommend him to take creatine is really your call, we're not there with him to help with that. It's effective for most, safe, and be looking for recommendations for the elderly to take 2-3 grams per day whether they are active or not, the clinical health benefits are continuing to mount.

Again you can make the recommendation, answer his questions and make clear that if he wants to use any supplement his parents are informed and they make the call. Creatine can help over the long run, and beats him trying anabolic steroids. But also make sure his diet is on etc etc.

[tylerpritchard_7]

What is his weight? His BMR? His diet is great but is it ideal? Up the cals and he shall grow.

[pcproffy]

If you are serious then the discussion should be with his parents.

Personally I think you're off for thinking a 16 y/o needs supplements, especially for weight gain. All 16 y/o are underweight, they're not even adults yet. And a kid who is 6'6 at that age isn't going to fill out for a while because so much energy is being used to fuel his growth. He will naturally fill out in the next few years. He needs to eat eat eat healthy and natural.

[patkoch]

If you are serious then the discussion should be with his parents.

Personally I think you're off for thinking a 16 y/o needs supplements, especially for weight gain. All 16 y/o are underweight, they're not even adults yet. And a kid who is 6'6 at that age isn't going to fill out for a while because so much energy is being used to fuel his growth. He will naturally fill out in the next few years. He needs to eat eat eat healthy and natural.

I agree his parents should be involved with the process.

However, I feel as if many of the people in this thread have thrown out the blanket statement "he is 16 there for he doesn't need supplements." Without really giving it any more thought.

Well obviously he doesn't need supplements for weight gain. He is an athlete and weight gain is a means to an end (better performance through gains in power) However if he is a highly motivated athlete looking to catch some recruiters eyes over the next year why would he not want to maximize his potential...

Usually people on this forum throw out the blanket statement..."you shouldn't take supps" because the teenager in question is absolutely clueless about diet and programming.

In my case it is completely different. He IS reaching his calorie requirements and is doing his best to eat a well balanced performance enhancing diet. His creatine use will be supervised by me. He is performing a well thought out program.

All that being said...assuming he is getting a quality product the better question is, Why am I off for thinking creatine might be helpful? You must be well aware that there is a lot of evidence supporting the use of creatine mono, there is zero evidence that creatine is harmful to young athletes.

If you want to turn this into is creatine monohydrate a useful supp thread? I could understand that... but to base your argument off the simple fact that he is 16 is irresponsible. Does the biology of a 16 year stop creatine mono from being useful? Do behavioral aspects of being 16 negate the supplement? Please lets not leave this at "he is 16 he doesn't need supps."

[rand18m]

[QUOTE=patkoch;814625021]I agree his parents should be involved with the process.

However, I feel as if many of the people in this thread have thrown out the blanket statement "he is 16 there for he doesn't need supplements." Without really giving it any more thought.

Well obviously he doesn't need supplements for weight gain. He is an athlete and weight gain is a means to an end (better performance through gains in power) However if he is a highly motivated athlete looking to catch some recruiters eyes over the next year why would he not want to maximize his potential...

Usually people on this forum throw out the blanket statement..."you shouldn't take supps" because the teenager in question is absolutely clueless about diet and programming.

In my case it is completely different. He IS reaching his calorie requirements and is doing his best to eat a well balanced performance enhancing diet. His creatine use will be supervised by me. He is performing a well thought out program.

All that being said...assuming he is getting a quality product the better question is, Why am I off for thinking creatine might be helpful? You must be well aware that there is a lot of evidence supporting the use of creatine mono, there is zero evidence that creatine is harmful to young athletes.



If you want to turn this into is creatine monohydrate a useful supp thread? I could understand that... but to base your argument off the simple fact that he is 16 is irresponsible. Does the biology of a 16 year stop creatine mono from being useful? Do behavioral aspects of being 16 negate the supplement? Please lets not leave this at "he is 16 he doesn't need supps."[/QUOTE

You're in agreement with my reply, I know of no evidence (there's not) that it's a problem for a juvenile so I don't see the problem if he wants to give it a try. I would rather he experiment with this rather than other things he can experiment with. Also it's efficacy for most individuals is pretty much undebatable. Saying no to creatine supplementation is exactly the equivalent of saying no to an endurance runner who carb loads, nobody would think to do that but they would do so to creatine. Both are natural food substances that are used as an ergogenic aid to increase performance.

[foodandfitness]

He needs to eat more good food.

He's a 16yo male. When people take vitamin T, they're trying to get the hormone profile of a 16yo male. He doesn't need creatine or anything else, he just needs good food. If he's not gaining weight, he's not eating enough. The purpose of appetite is your body's telling you, "and that is just enough to keep me the same size." Hunger means, "eat now or I'll have to get smaller." Being full means, "stop eating or I'll get bigger."

If you want to get smaller, you have to be slightly hungry some of the time. If you want to get bigger and still enjoy your food, you're not eating enough.

He needs to eat more good food.

This x10. OP, there is no need to supplement your client. Increase his calories. Switch out low calorie options for higher calorie foods and perhaps give him another high calorie snack like trail mix. Try to get him to gain about 1/2 to 1 pound each week.

[patkoch]

This x10. OP, there is no need to supplement your client. Increase his calories. Switch out low calorie options for higher calorie foods and perhaps give him another high calorie snack like trail mix. Try to get him to gain about 1/2 to 1 pound each week.

Why?

[foodandfitness]

Why?

So he can gain weight and build muscle. If he is an "ectomorph" (which I am just assuming you mean he skinny?) then he could stand to use the extra calories. It seems he is gaining weight along those parameters just fine but I'm assuming you want to supplement him creatine because his training has reached a plateau? Why supplement creatine on a 16 year old if he is still making gains?

[pcproffy]

To rephrase, I think you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Further, he won't put on weight unless there is a positive energy balance and creatine won't change that. If you want to compare it to carb loading, then get him on steak loading --> calories + creatine = problem solved.

[arya1993]

Do not recommend supplements. Just don't, especially to a minor.

Play it safe bro, also measly reps.

[patkoch]

To rephrase, I think you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Further, he won't put on weight unless there is a positive energy balance and creatine won't change that. If you want to compare it to carb loading, then get him on steak loading --> calories + creatine = problem solved.

I understand cals in cals out...

[patkoch]

So he can gain weight and build muscle. If he is an "ectomorph" (which I am just assuming you mean he skinny?) then he could stand to use the extra calories. It seems he is gaining weight along those parameters just fine but I'm assuming you want to supplement him creatine because his training has reached a plateau? Why supplement creatine on a 16 year old if he is still making gains?

Why supplement creatine at any age? To improve his training efforts week to week and maintain high training intensities, assuming he is a responder to creatine.

[rand18m]

To rephrase, I think you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Further, he won't put on weight unless there is a positive energy balance and creatine won't change that. If you want to compare it to carb loading, then get him on steak loading --> calories + creatine = problem solved.

Apparently you are not familiar with carb loading.

There is not one shred of evidence on this planet that I know of to suggest creatine supplementation is harmful, even for a juvenile.

Carb loading is an ergogenic strategy designed to enhance performance, creatine supplementation, is an ergogenic strategy to enhance performance, period.

If his goal is to increase his strength and quickness, then there is PLENTY of evidence that increasing his creatine stores can aid in that endeavor. If he is simply wanting to put on weight, then eat more, if he is wanting to do both, then do both. Truthfully, outside of measuring top athletes I am not certain how discernible the improvements would be, but it may also have a placebo affect for him and it's harmless, I don't understand everyone's hesitation. Of course it's ultimately up to his parents.

[foodandfitness]

Apparently you are not familiar with carb loading.

There is not one shred of evidence on this planet that I know of to suggest creatine supplementation is harmful, even for a juvenile.

Carb loading is an ergogenic strategy designed to enhance performance, creatine supplementation, is an ergogenic strategy to enhance performance, period.

If his goal is to increase his strength and quickness, then there is PLENTY of evidence that increasing his creatine stores can aid in that endeavor. If he is simply wanting to put on weight, then eat more, if he is wanting to do both, then do both. Truthfully, outside of measuring top athletes I am not certain how discernible the improvements would be, but it may also have a placebo affect for him and it's harmless, I don't understand everyone's hesitation. Of course it's ultimately up to his parents.

Are you looking for opinions/answers about your scenario or are you looking for validation to do what you are already planning on doing? ITT most of us advise against supplementing creatine to your client.

[patkoch]

Are you looking for opinions/answers about your scenario or are you looking for validation to do what you are already planning on doing? ITT most of us advise against supplementing creatine to your client.

OP = My question is, I believe he is a good candidate for creatine monohydrate... I know he would love to try it out, from what I understand as a pt reccomending supplements is illegal. Any tips, tricks, or should I juut leave it be?

[JJRadical]

The danger with any supplement is I'll use this to help me acheive my goal very easily turns into i cannot achieve my goal without this.

[RADRYAN]

you have to be super careful when putting a minor on any type of supplement, just to the legal issues. If anything the diet is where you should have him really focused on. I don't think he would have any issues with any type of supplement (no use for test boosters for a long while though). Any supplement decision needs to be discussed with parents/guardians to keep you out of any trouble. People suck now a days and will take advantage of civil court, if there kid gets suck on a supplement.

[RADRYAN]

The danger with any supplement is I'll use this to help me acheive my goal very easily turns into i cannot achieve my goal without this.

very true especially in the high school days.

[rand18m]

OP = My question is, I believe he is a good candidate for creatine monohydrate... I know he would love to try it out, from what I understand as a pt reccomending supplements is illegal. Any tips, tricks, or should I juut leave it be?

I don't understand why you think making recommendations are illegal, you can't prescribe a diet or anything else, but you are allowed to recommend, which is nothing more than an opinion. If Tony above is an RD he should be able to confirm this, although he disagrees with the recommendation, which is fine, I would like him to better explain his position just for my own education.

[foodandfitness]

The danger with any supplement is I'll use this to help me acheive my goal very easily turns into i cannot achieve my goal without this.

This is biggest reason for recommending against it. It has to do with the mentality of a 16 year old and starting supplements. I believe as long as he is making gains, there is no reason to supplement creatine. My secondary reason is that because the supplement industry is not tightly regulated by the FDA, some contain contaminants.


I don't understand why you think making recommendations are illegal, you can't prescribe a diet or anything else, but you are allowed to recommend, which is nothing more than an opinion. If Tony above is an RD he should be able to confirm this, although he disagrees with the recommendation, which is fine, I would like him to better explain his position just for my own education.

Trainers can recommend anything they like. There is no federal law against it. Some states have special laws concerning who can call themselves a "nutritionist" and some laws about nutrition prescriptions. I live in TX, and as far as I know, there are no laws against it.

[rand18m]

This is biggest reason for recommending against it. It has to do with the mentality of a 16 year old and starting supplements. I believe as long as he is making gains, there is no reason to supplement creatine. My secondary reason is that because the supplement industry is not tightly regulated by the FDA, some contain contaminants.



Trainers can recommend anything they like. There is no federal law against it. Some states have special laws concerning who can call themselves a "nutritionist" and some laws about nutrition prescriptions. I live in TX, and as far as I know, there are no laws against it.

Understood, thanks for the explanation!