"This summer, do you want to be a mermaid or a whale?"

[norinicole]

Found this on my facebook feed this morning:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=2545702681966&set=a.2545702521962.2154719.1235752135&type=1&theater

This pissed me off. Along with a lot of the comments on the picture.

It's one thing to be of a healthy bodyfat level and to be happy with yourself. It's another to celebrate being fat and obese.

I feel now, moreso than ever, that those of us who have muscle are still less understood than those who are fat or skinny. Not cool.

[Artistry]

"And, who wants a girl that smells like fish by his side?" Er, he'd rather have an enormous mass of blubber that's baleen on one end and a set of flukes on the other? Wut?

I have to agree with you. Fat is undesirable and skinny (read:delicate) is allegedly what men want, so girls who want muscle are kind of a fringe group. I hate seeing fat glorified; people should be pushing back against media influence and the formulaic notion of what it means to be attractive, but not like that. When I see that picture, I don't see a woman with a "perfect, natural body," I see a woman who would be gorgeous if she'd put down the fork and pick up some weights. =\

[seanb1979]

I really wish more people thought this. Overweight women love to demean anyone whos in shape by calling them twigs, toothpicks, barbies, etc. It's funny that they need to do that in order to feel somewhat better about their condition, but you still know they're unhappy at the end of the day.

[illiniStrive]

A couple questions:

1. What's wrong with someone appreciating their body? For years the diet industry has attempted to "stomp out obesity" by making everyone in the country feel like **** about themselves... and guess what? It's not working! Surprise surprise, the amount of overweight and obese individuals is only rising. Nobody is going to take care of something they hate. If the fashion industry can promote drug-addicts like Kate Moss and models who represent an unhealthy standard on the opposite end, then I see no problem with the picture you posted.



Which brings me to point #2...




http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/2/8/3/8/3/a2958010-37-obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg

[norinicole]

"And, who wants a girl that smells like fish by his side?" Er, he'd rather have an enormous mass of blubber that's baleen on one end and a set of flukes on the other? Wut?

I have to agree with you. Fat is undesirable and skinny (read:delicate) is allegedly what men want, so girls who want muscle are kind of a fringe group. I hate seeing fat glorified; people should be pushing back against media influence and the formulaic notion of what it means to be attractive, but not like that. When I see that picture, I don't see a woman with a "perfect, natural body," I see a woman who would be gorgeous if she'd put down the fork and pick up some weights. =\

I think that's what irks me the most. And I agree. If you are going to be a model, wouldn't you want to provide some sort of positive influence?


I really wish more people thought this. Overweight women love to demean anyone whos in shape by calling them twigs, toothpicks, barbies, etc. It's funny that they need to do that in order to feel somewhat better about their condition, but you still know they're unhappy at the end of the day.

Although, chances are a large majority of those who are overweight ARE happy.



A couple questions:

1. What's wrong with someone appreciating their body? For years the diet industry has attempted to "stomp out obesity" by making everyone in the country feel like **** about themselves... and guess what? It's not working! Surprise surprise, the amount of overweight and obese individuals is only rising. Nobody is going to take care of something they hate. If the fashion industry can promote drug-addicts like Kate Moss and models who represent an unhealthy standard on the opposite end, then I see no problem with the picture you posted.



There's nothing wrong with someone appreciating their body, but why is it okay if that body is overweight and unhealthy? I don't think the rate of obesity and those who are overweight isn't due to the diet industry "stomping out obesity". It's the fact that there are WAY too many fad diets and people out there looking to make a quick buck. Most of the people looking to lose weight want to do it painlessly and easily, and there are countless companies who feed into that. Then these people drop weight either too quickly or in a way that is unhealthy which results in a rebound that in the end is more damaging.

Not to mention the shift in society and how we are now so wired to want instant gratification. It is too easy to eat unhealthily and limit our amount of exercise. I'm all for women (and men) being proud of who they are and how they look. But not when it's a result of gluttony, laziness, or lack of self-discipline.



Which brings me to point #2...




http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/2/8/3/8/3/a2958010-37-obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg

I live in a country where our tax money goes towards health care for EVERYONE. Why am I paying for someone's health care when they don't look after themselves? Why, when I'm sick, do I have to wait for the obese person to be looked after first simply because their condition is worse due to their weight?

What are we teaching the next generation? That it's okay to be fat? It's okay to eat in excess so much that it's difficult to do things that should come easily? (tie your shoes, walk up stairs, sit in chair in a restaurant).

[seanb1979]

What are we teaching the next generation? That it's okay to be fat? It's okay to eat in excess so much that it's difficult to do things that should come easily? (tie your shoes, walk up stairs, sit in chair in a restaurant).

Haven't you seen Wall-E? It offers a glimpse into the future, and its a dark one - mostly because the sun is blotted out by a bunch of fat people.

[norinicole]

Haven't you seen Wall-E? It offers a glimpse into the future, and its a dark one - mostly because the sun is blotted out by a bunch of fat people.

It's one of my favourite movies! Not the part about the fat people thought, lol.

[erinlee01]

A couple questions:

1. What's wrong with someone appreciating their body? For years the diet industry has attempted to "stomp out obesity" by making everyone in the country feel like **** about themselves... and guess what? It's not working! Surprise surprise, the amount of overweight and obese individuals is only rising. Nobody is going to take care of something they hate. If the fashion industry can promote drug-addicts like Kate Moss and models who represent an unhealthy standard on the opposite end, then I see no problem with the picture you posted.



Which brings me to point #2...




http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/2/8/3/8/3/a2958010-37-obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg

So, just because the model industry puts out waifs it's OK to tell people it's OK to be fat? That's interesting logic. Healthy should be appreciated. Being obese is not healthy. Being grossly underweight is unhealthy. Why would we say either is OK?

And then there is this:



I live in a country where our tax money goes towards health care for EVERYONE. Why am I paying for someone's health care when they don't look after themselves? Why, when I'm sick, do I have to wait for the obese person to be looked after first simply because their condition is worse due to their weight?


You posted a pic of Michelle Obama. You are aware that her husband's health care plan will make this more and more pertinent to us here in the US, aren't you? Fact is, healthcare already is more expensive as we pay for more and more health problems caused by obesity and if the president gets his way, it's going to get worse. You're OK with that?

[illiniStrive]

What are we teaching the next generation? That it's okay to be fat? It's okay to eat in excess so much that it's difficult to do things that should come easily? (tie your shoes, walk up stairs, sit in chair in a restaurant).

No, we're teaching the next generation:

Treat people the way you wish to be treated unless:
- they are poor
- they are fat
- they have a medical condition
- they are unemployed
- they smoke
- they are unintelligent/ignorant
- they have an addiction

Because all of these things of course are within their control and could be reversed if only they'd worked hard enough. :)

[illiniStrive]

You posted a pic of Michelle Obama. You are aware that her husband's health care plan will make this more and more pertinent to us here in the US, aren't you? Fact is, healthcare already is more expensive as we pay for more and more health problems caused by obesity and if the president gets his way, it's going to get worse. You're OK with that?

Because obesity is totally the only reason people have health problems right? Nobody smokes, engages in risky behaviors, has unprotected sex, tans, catches airborne bacteria, or inherits a disease from birth, right?

Okay okay you caught me. Guilty as charged.

[themyth2009]

Because obesity is totally the only reason people have health problems right? Nobody smokes, engages in risky behaviors, has unprotected sex, tans, catches airborne bacteria, or inherits a disease from birth, right?

Okay okay you caught me. Guilty as charged.


According to a new study by Harvard public health researchers, the leading preventable risk factors for premature death in the United States are:

Smoking: 467,000 deaths.
High blood pressure: 395,000 deaths.
Overweight-obesity: 216,000 deaths.
Inadequate physical activity and inactivity: 191,000 deaths.
High blood sugar: 190,000 deaths.
High LDL cholesterol: 113,000 deaths.
High dietary salt: 102,000 deaths.
Low dietary omega-3 fatty acids (seafood): 84,000 deaths.
High dietary trans fatty acids: 82,000 deaths.
Alcohol use: 64,000 deaths.
Low intake of fruits and vegetables: 58,000 deaths.
Low dietary poly-unsaturated fatty acids: 15,000 deaths.

[illiniStrive]

According to a new study by Harvard public health researchers, the leading preventable risk factors for premature death in the United States are:

Smoking: 467,000 deaths.
High blood pressure: 395,000 deaths.
Overweight-obesity: 216,000 deaths.

These are current correct?

Smoking is STILL almost 2x that of obesity, but get's less than half the press (at least in the past 5 years or so).

Shouldn't we still be telling people to stop smoking?

There's nothing wrong with encouraging healthy behaviors (eating well and exercising). The problem I have is that these mantras seem to only apply to fat people. Why can't we promote these things to everyone?

And if someone is doing these things leave them the hell alone. Sorry, my fatness is not responsible for your healthcare bills.

[seanb1979]

These are current correct?

Smoking is STILL almost 2x that of obesity, but get's less than half the press (at least in the past 5 years or so).

Shouldn't we still be telling people to stop smoking?

There's nothing wrong with encouraging healthy behaviors (eating well and exercising). The problem I have is that these mantras seem to only apply to fat people. Why can't we promote these things to everyone?

And if someone is doing these things leave them the hell alone. Sorry, my fatness is not responsible for your healthcare bills.

I see a lot of anti-smoking campaigns going on. The truth campaign, the free gum/patches, higher prices on ciggs. And if an insurance company has a much higher rate of claims due to obesity, yes, it is reflected on all of our premiums and on higher ER costs.

[themyth2009]

These are current correct?

Smoking is STILL almost 2x that of obesity, but get's less than half the press (at least in the past 5 years or so).

Shouldn't we still be telling people to stop smoking?

There's nothing wrong with encouraging healthy behaviors (eating well and exercising). The problem I have is that these mantras seem to only apply to fat people. Why can't we promote these things to everyone?

And if someone is doing these things leave them the hell alone. Sorry, my fatness is not responsible for your healthcare bills.

It is from 2009....I think you overlooked that obesity and lack of proper diet, etc is linked also with a ton of the other items on the list.

Also big tobacco has big fcking dollars. So you know what that means. Have politicians in back pocket.

[erinlee01]

Because obesity is totally the only reason people have health problems right? Nobody smokes, engages in risky behaviors, has unprotected sex, tans, catches airborne bacteria, or inherits a disease from birth, right?

Okay okay you caught me. Guilty as charged.

Honestly, you're throwing in congenital diseases and airborne illnesses as an argument? Give me a break. If you're going to put forth an argument, at least make sure you're comparing apples with apples.

I don't condone smoking, unprotected sex, or tanning (I have no idea what you mean by risky behaviors, but I am ignoring it as the effect on healthcare is more than likely negligible in comparison to the others), so why would I condone obesity? Because someone like you thinks it's the politically correct thing to do?

Have you looked at how much some of these cost in healthcare?

Obesity - $147 billion per year
Smoking - $200 billion per year
STDs - $17 billion per year

Those costs are more than the overall costs for cancer ($263 billion), and I am guessing that a good chunk of that also falls under the smoking category making the gap wider.

And they are ALL controllable costs by controlling your behavior.

But, you're right. Live and let live. We'll just pay for it later.


Edit - as for telling people not to smoke, I'm not sure where it is where you live, but smoking is VERY socially unacceptable here. There are tons of anti-smoking billboards, TV ads, etc. You haven't been able to smoke in a mall since I was in grade school, and it's been years since you can smoke in a bar here.

[erinlee01]

These are current correct?

Smoking is STILL almost 2x that of obesity, but get's less than half the press (at least in the past 5 years or so).

Shouldn't we still be telling people to stop smoking?

There's nothing wrong with encouraging healthy behaviors (eating well and exercising). The problem I have is that these mantras seem to only apply to fat people. Why can't we promote these things to everyone?

And if someone is doing these things leave them the hell alone. Sorry, my fatness is not responsible for your healthcare bills.

Actually, your last statement is very, very wrong. Seriously, before you make another argument, you really might want to do some research. You have a big misconception about health care costs and what impacts them.

[illiniStrive]

Actually, your last statement is very, very wrong. Seriously, before you make another argument, you really might want to do some research. You have a big misconception about health care costs and what impacts them.

My statement was based off the data posted above. The numbers there were the actual deaths, not the costs.


I don't condone smoking, unprotected sex, or tanning (I have no idea what you mean by risky behaviors, but I am ignoring it as the effect on healthcare is more than likely negligible in comparison to the others), so why would I condone obesity? Because someone like you thinks it's the politically correct thing to do?

It is never fair to treat someone like crap because of the way they look.

If obesity is a problem -- excuse me, if fatness is a problem -- why is nobody reaching out to help? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Wasn't there just a thread on how so many women are misinformed about diet and exercise? Do you think this is limited to just women? Our entire country is completely misguided about nutrition and healthy living, yet we scorn those who can't fit into a pair of size 0 jeans (women, no clue about mens sizes). It's "every man for himself", and if that men is obese, well, he better figure it out ASAP and we'll continue to berate him in the meantime (let's ignore for the moment that our perception of weight and body sizes are completely gendered in this country, but that's another story).

This has derailed from the original post topic, but who cares, conversations evolve.

Here's my problem and it's completely contingent upon personal experience, yet is threaded in the general topic of discussion here:

I eat well, I exercise intensely multiple times per week. I am healthy. But I am fat (<-- see stats). Negating any of my lifestyle behaviors, according to the government, the news, and the diet industry I should be focusing 100% on losing weight if I value my health. Because regardless of my lifestyle choices, there's no possibility that my clean bill of health will continue because the number on the scale is as good as an obituary as far as they are concerned. Meanwhile, one of my best friends who never exercises, can't run more than 100 feet without getting out of breath (bless her heart), and barely eats is exempt from the messages outputted from these sources because she is 5 inches taller and about half my size. Am I bitter? Hell yeah I'm bitter, hence the personal anecdote.

Logistically I don't see why it's okay to tell one demographic "Eat better, exercise more for better health!", but not everyone. There's got to be a better way to get the word out that it doesn't involve humiliation. So if some magazine/brand/photographer/creative director wants to have a fat model, than who are we to say "boo". They're going to do what sells (or at least sparks controversy which will therefore sell). That's capitalism at it's finest.

[erinlee01]

My statement was based off the data posted above. The numbers there were the actual deaths, not the costs.



It is never fair to treat someone like crap because of the way they look.

If obesity is a problem -- excuse me, if fatness is a problem -- why is nobody reaching out to help? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Wasn't there just a thread on how so many women are misinformed about diet and exercise? Do you think this is limited to just women? Our entire country is completely misguided about nutrition and healthy living, yet we scorn those who can't fit into a pair of size 0 jeans (women, no clue about mens sizes). It's "every man for himself", and if that men is obese, well, he better figure it out ASAP and we'll continue to berate him in the meantime (ignoring for a moment that our perception of weight and body sizes are completely gendered in this country, but that's another story).

This has derailed from the original post topic, but who cares, conversations evolve.

Here's my problem and it's completely contingent upon personal experience, yet is threaded in the general topic of discussion here:

I eat well, I exercise intensely multiple times per week. I am healthy. But I am fat (<-- see stats). Negating any of my lifestyle behaviors, according to the government, the news, and the diet industry I should be focusing 100% on losing weight if I value my health. Because regardless of my lifestyle choices, there's no possibility that my clean bill of health will continue because the number on the scale is as good as an obituary as far as they are concerned. Meanwhile, one of my best friends who never exercises, can't run more than 100 feet without getting out of breath (bless her heart), and barely eats is exempt from the messages outputted from these sources because she is 5 inches taller and about half my size. Am I bitter? Hell yeah I'm bitter, hence the personal anecdote.

Logistically I don't see why it's okay to tell one demographic "Eat better, exercise more for better health!", but not everyone.

Your statement specifically spoke to costs, hence my statement.

And I agree, it's not right to treat someone like crap based on how they look. But it's also not right to pretend that it's OK. I also agree that education is the best way to combat it. I feel that way about lots of things - smoking, unprotected sex, etc. And I also agree that the eat better message should be sent out to everyone.

But, looking at your stats you might be considered overweight (look at mine - I fall into this category as well), however you most definitely are not the demographic that people are talking about when talking about obesity and health care. There is a HUGE difference between being slightly overweight (where you & I fall) and being grossly overweight.

[kurohoshi]

I think that we are really going to extremes here on both sides. You've all heard the complaints about models having to be so skinny, etc and in turn that affects children/teens/women's self-images.. well, to reverse that damage, now we are trying to say, oh, well being this way is beautiful too.. except BOTH sides are WAY too extreme. On one side you have extremely skinny women (which the average woman does not look like), and then on the other side you have an obese naked woman (referring to the one posted by OP that I also saw on my FB today, btw).

I really agree with everyone. I mean honestly, I love the fact that people can be happy about themselves no matter what they look like/weigh, etc... but seriously? That model just doesn't have a little bit of fat on her, she is truly obese. That's not something we need to be promoting, either.

[norinicole]

No, we're teaching the next generation:

Treat people the way you wish to be treated unless:
- they are poor
- they are fat
- they have a medical condition
- they are unemployed
- they smoke
- they are unintelligent/ignorant
- they have an addiction

Because all of these things of course are within their control and could be reversed if only they'd worked hard enough. :)

I think that for half of those you listed we are trying the opposite.


These are current correct?

Smoking is STILL almost 2x that of obesity, but get's less than half the press (at least in the past 5 years or so).

Shouldn't we still be telling people to stop smoking?

There's nothing wrong with encouraging healthy behaviors (eating well and exercising). The problem I have is that these mantras seem to only apply to fat people. Why can't we promote these things to everyone?

And if someone is doing these things leave them the hell alone. Sorry, my fatness is not responsible for your healthcare bills.

This is exactly it. That fat model ISN'T encouraging healthy behavoiurs!! And I don't know about you, but the efforts to help people stop smoking is out in full force here. And the reason eating healthy and exercising is geared towards fat people IS BECAUSE THEY ARE FAT. Why would we need to tell people who are healthy to do something that they are already doing?!

Although your fatness isn't responsible for MY healthcare bills, someone else is footing the bill.


Edit - as for telling people not to smoke, I'm not sure where it is where you live, but smoking is VERY socially unacceptable here. There are tons of anti-smoking billboards, TV ads, etc. You haven't been able to smoke in a mall since I was in grade school, and it's been years since you can smoke in a bar here.

We have a new legislation in our city that you can not smoke in a public park. I'm sure smoking in public in general will be next. So pretty much smokers are limited to smoking at home, in their car, or in a casino that is on reserve land.

[Simpy]

These are current correct?

Smoking is STILL almost 2x that of obesity, but get's less than half the press (at least in the past 5 years or so).

Shouldn't we still be telling people to stop smoking?

There's nothing wrong with encouraging healthy behaviors (eating well and exercising). The problem I have is that these mantras seem to only apply to fat people. Why can't we promote these things to everyone?

And if someone is doing these things leave them the hell alone. Sorry, my fatness is not responsible for your healthcare bills.I think the difference is that you don't see ads for pro-smoking floating around the internet or smokers being advertised as sexy.

I agree, everyone should feel comfortable in their skin and a person's character shouldn't be based on whether they smoke/don't smoke, are fat or thin, have cancer or don't, etc. A person's worth is based on their actions.

What I found disturbing about the picture and commentary that Nori posted was not that the writer was taking ownership of her size and feeling confident despite it, but that she was actively trying to persuade the audience to believe that those of us who spend time on ourselves in the gym and don't eat everything coming and going are not fun, not good wives, not good mothers, and, I guess we smell a bit like fish. :p Although whales smell fishy too, right?

I have no issue with a fat girl feeling sexy. Personally, I don't see it. I love my body and I would be quite upset with myself if I were to look like the woman in that picture. But I'm quite pleased with the fact that she feels sexy (or the writer does) and I'm pleased to know that there are others that find her sexy. We all need someone. But dear writer, don't kid yourself into believing that just because I can fit into a size 4 that I'm any less of a person. I'm no more conceited, hateful or bitchy than any of the other thousands of fat girls out there. My parenting skills have nothing at all to do with the amount of fat on my ass. And I am a damn good wife who's husband finds me quite sexy, thankyouverymuch.

[norinicole]

I think that we are really going to extremes here on both sides. You've all heard the complaints about models having to be so skinny, etc and in turn that affects children/teens/women's self-images.. well, to reverse that damage, now we are trying to say, oh, well being this way is beautiful too.. except BOTH sides are WAY too extreme. On one side you have extremely skinny women (which the average woman does not look like), and then on the other side you have an obese naked woman (referring to the one posted by OP that I also saw on my FB today, btw).

I really agree with everyone. I mean honestly, I love the fact that people can be happy about themselves no matter what they look like/weigh, etc... but seriously? That model just doesn't have a little bit of fat on her, she is truly obese. That's not something we need to be promoting, either.

EXACTLY!!! Neither side of the spectrum should be glorified.

[norinicole]

I would also like to post Fitlover's take on it, as it describes exactly how I feel:

http://fortheloveofcookies.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/confident-or-full-of-excuses/

[illiniStrive]

What I found disturbing about the picture and commentary that Nori posted was not that the writer was taking ownership of her size and feeling confident despite it, but that she was actively trying to persuade the audience to believe that those of us who spend time on ourselves in the gym and don't eat everything coming and going are not fun, not good wives, not good mothers, and, I guess we smell a bit like fish. :p Although whales smell fishy too, right?

I have no issue with a fat girl feeling sexy. Personally, I don't see it. I love my body and I would be quite upset with myself if I were to look like the woman in that picture. But I'm quite pleased with the fact that she feels sexy (or the writer does) and I'm pleased to know that there are others that find her sexy. We all need someone. But dear writer, don't kid yourself into believing that just because I can fit into a size 4 that I'm any less of a person. I'm no more conceited, hateful or bitchy than any of the other thousands of fat girls out there. My parenting skills have nothing at all to do with the amount of fat on my ass. And I am a damn good wife who's husband finds me quite sexy, thankyouverymuch.

*facepalm*

I did not read the text accompanying the picture (derp) though it makes the title of thread a little more sensical. But to be fair (to myself) my responses were geared to the picture itself and whatever message it was supposedly promoting.

Honestly, picking on the shape of someone's body is just icky on so many levels, whoever it is. That's what annoys me about phrases like "real women have curves!" or "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" (even besides the disordered history a statement like that has). Ugh. Why does feeling good about oneself have to be at the expense of others? It's like feeling smart by point out someone else's ignorance.

EDIT: And Christine's blog post (as usual) is full of win and she basically articulated way better what I've been trying to say. whew

EDITEDIT: Also, I would be remiss in my liberal arts education if I didn't point out that all this discussion and debate ever revolves solely on the topic of female bodies. Where are the rants that the "fat Mac" character on It's Always Sunny is promoting obesity?!

[DaniGrrl]

Found this on my facebook feed this morning:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=2545702681966&set=a.2545702521962.2154719.1235752135&type=1&theater

This pissed me off. Along with a lot of the comments on the picture.
It's one thing to be of a healthy bodyfat level and to be happy with yourself. It's another to celebrate being fat and obese.

I feel now, moreso than ever, that those of us who have muscle are still less understood than those who are fat or skinny. Not cool.

A family member of mine just posted this picture and said "Three thumbs up!" So far no one has commented, but she got several "likes" And I'm surprised because she's in great shape and is a marathon runner. I feel like putting her on blast for basically commending someone for being overweight but she's actually a family member who I don't know very well so I don't want to get into it with her or any of her friends.

I think everyone should feel good in their own skin and be comfortable with who they are but being overweight is unhealthy, plain and simple. I don't see unattractiveness or ugliness when I see an overweight person - I see someone who is wildly unhealthy, whether they are happy/confident/comfortable with themselves or not.

I also agree with whoever said this girl would be gorgeous if she put her fork down. So true!

[erinlee01]

Just something anecdotal from my own experience.

When I first started working out, I weighed almost 180 lbs. No one every commented on my weight.

After a couple of years of working out and dieting for competition, I got down to 140. Starting at around 145, people at work started to tell me that I needed to eat more, that I was getting too thin and looked unhealthy. You can look at my progress pics from around October of 2009 - I was in no way unhealthy looking.

I always found it interesting that when I was fat and unhealthy, no one said anything. But when I got healthy, MANY people started to tell me I was unhealthy.

[DaniGrrl]

Just something anecdotal from my own experience.

When I first started working out, I weighed almost 180 lbs. No one every commented on my weight.

After a couple of years of working out and dieting for competition, I got down to 140. Starting at around 145, people at work started to tell me that I needed to eat more, that I was getting too thin and looked unhealthy. You can look at my progress pics from around October of 2009 - I was in no way unhealthy looking.

I always found it interesting that when I was fat and unhealthy, no one said anything. But when I got healthy, MANY people started to tell me I was unhealthy.

I am CONSTANTLY being told I am too thin. I know I could put on a couple pounds(am working on it :) ) but every time my dad sees me, he tells me to stay out of the gym, I'm too skinny, yet tells my sister who is horribly skinny fat that she looks good. I recently had boudoir photos taken. My one good friend looked at them and said they were beautiful BUT on the shots of me from the side, I look way too skinny. Granted, I'd done a bit of a cut in preparation so maybe I did look a little skinny from that angle, but it's funny how my friends who work out themselves and are in great shape themselves tell me I'm lean and look great but others who don't work out and/or are out of shape use the term "skinny."

[Keltron]

The girl in the pic isn't even obese. And for what it's worth, I find her way more attractive than ChickenTuna for example. (no offense to CT).

I define healthy as having strength, good mobility/flexibilty, and good metabolic conditioning. You can have all 3 w/o being that lean.

[kurohoshi]

The girl in the pic isn't even obese.

can't tell if srs

[latebloomingmom]

Haven't you seen Wall-E? It offers a glimpse into the future, and its a dark one - mostly because the sun is blotted out by a bunch of fat people. holy h*ll that is exactly what popped into my head reading this ...bizarre.

[RebeccaG]

The girl in the pic isn't even obese.

That's the first thing I thought when I saw the picture.

Sure, she's chubby but I doubt she'd be considered OBESE.

Either way that whole deal is just brainless. The picture, the commentary, the whole thing. Brainless. As Fitlover's blog post said, none of it really makes any sense whatsoever.

It's meant to cause things like this, and the thousands of idiotic comments on the FB post. Which does NOTHING for the growing problem of obesity. Just like the bra color crap does nothing for breast cancer. Or the 'where do you keep your purse' and whatever malady that apparently 'supports.'

This was on my FB feed this morning, too, and I didn't even give it a second thought. It's not worth it.

[KibbieKatze]

The girl in the pic isn't even obese.

lolwut

[norinicole]

*facepalm*

I did not read the text accompanying the picture (derp) though it makes the title of thread a little more sensical. But to be fair (to myself) my responses were geared to the picture itself and whatever message it was supposedly promoting.

Honestly, picking on the shape of someone's body is just icky on so many levels, whoever it is. That's what annoys me about phrases like "real women have curves!" or "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" (even besides the disordered history a statement like that has). Ugh. Why does feeling good about oneself have to be at the expense of others? It's like feeling smart by point out someone else's ignorance.

EDIT: And Christine's blog post (as usual) is full of win and she basically articulated way better what I've been trying to say. whew

EDITEDIT: Also, I would be remiss in my liberal arts education if I didn't point out that all this discussion and debate ever revolves solely on the topic of female bodies. Where are the rants that the "fat Mac" character on It's Always Sunny is promoting obesity?!

Ha ha ha. I have no problem with the picture really, it was the story and commentary that I was getting worked up about.



The girl in the pic isn't even obese. And for what it's worth, I find her way more attractive than ChickenTuna for example. (no offense to CT).

I define healthy as having strength, good mobility/flexibilty, and good metabolic conditioning. You can have all 3 w/o being that lean.

True, but can you have all three and look like the model?

[latebloomingmom]

Just something anecdotal from my own experience.

When I first started working out, I weighed almost 180 lbs. No one every commented on my weight.

After a couple of years of working out and dieting for competition, I got down to 140. Starting at around 145, people at work started to tell me that I needed to eat more, that I was getting too thin and looked unhealthy. You can look at my progress pics from around October of 2009 - I was in no way unhealthy looking.

I always found it interesting that when I was fat and unhealthy, no one said anything. But when I got healthy, MANY people started to tell me I was unhealthy.That is cause now you are in the minority crowd...the in-shapers..not that I currently hold a membership card. People who are out of shape want other people to be like them...misery loves company. Ya I get told" uhh...don't you think your muscles are getting a little too big?"
what the? does such a thing even exist?
I see a different attitude now then when I was a girl, young adult. Back then (ya ok waaay back then) I was taught to camouflage my imperfections. Now, it seems like all you see are young girls with (sorry) muffin tops parading around with skin tight shirts on and low-rider jeans acting like they all that and a bag of chips. Not saying its the WRONG attitude...It's not SHAME but still, it is different.

[norinicole]

That is cause now you are in the minority crowd...the in-shapers..not that I currently hold a membership card. People who are out of shape want other people to be like them...misery loves company. Ya I get told" uhh...don't you think your muscles are getting a little too big?"
what the? does such a thing even exist?
I see a different attitude now then when I was a girl, young adult. Back then (ya ok waaay back then) I was taught to camouflage my imperfections. Now, it seems like all you see are young girls with (sorry) muffin tops parading around with skin tight shirts on and low-rider jeans acting like they all that and a bag of chips. Not saying its the WRONG attitude...It's not SHAME but still, it is different.

UGH. I worked at a bar, and this is ALL that I would see. I'm all for being happy about how you look and being confident, but seriously, can you not find something to wear that FITS?! And some of these girls were "normal" - but trying to squeeze into size 4 jeans! (which, by they way, I've never been able to wear, lol).

One evening there were some girls who came in - they looked AMAZING! One of the girls was wearing pretty short dress shorts, but man did she have the best legs. So I went up to her and thanked her for having a body to wear that kind of clothing.

[themyth2009]

The girl in the pic isn't even obese. And for what it's worth, I find her way more attractive than ChickenTuna for example. (no offense to CT).

I define healthy as having strength, good mobility/flexibilty, and good metabolic conditioning. You can have all 3 w/o being that lean.

Are you kidding I would pound chicken tuna for breakfast, lunch, dinner and a middle of the night snack.

Strength is relative my friend. So is mobility and conditioning.


Just something anecdotal from my own experience.

When I first started working out, I weighed almost 180 lbs. No one every commented on my weight.

After a couple of years of working out and dieting for competition, I got down to 140. Starting at around 145, people at work started to tell me that I needed to eat more, that I was getting too thin and looked unhealthy. You can look at my progress pics from around October of 2009 - I was in no way unhealthy looking.

I always found it interesting that when I was fat and unhealthy, no one said anything. But when I got healthy, MANY people started to tell me I was unhealthy.

I get people when I diet telling me my arms, legs, etc looking disgusting and that I am unhealthy. When I was 210 lbs and chunky no comments. It is just jealousy.

[Keltron]

True, but can you have all three and look like the model?No way, not by the traditional modeling world anyway. I'm not sure what the dispute w/that is... unless it was mentioned in the fb post or the original post (neither of which I read entirely).

[seanb1979]

I always found it interesting that when I was fat and unhealthy, no one said anything. But when I got healthy, MANY people started to tell me I was unhealthy.

It's because when you were overweight you didn't make them feel out of place. Now they feel as if the bar as been raised a little more.

[CoffeCanSlayer]

Let people be who they are, and celebrate what they like.

Personally, the fitness industry is one of the biggest shams in the world. A huge percent of people have been blinded with the way they look instead of worrying about real problems in the world. Who gives a sh!t if fatty is happy for being fat. The point is loving yourself, because if you can do that, you can love and accept others.

I myself am obese as everyone likes to point out on here. And after 18 years of being called fat, fatty, fatass, fatfuk, b!tchtits, fatmatt, I have come to realize that people are way too concerned with how others look/feel about themselves. It's not in your place to tell someone anything about how they look or how they should feel about themselves.

As far as healthcare goes, I don't really give a sh!t. Being as I don't live a meaningless life of cell phones/Ps3/xbox/tv's/etc.... I have what I need in this world, I don't mind helping people pay for some healthcare.

Besides, when it comes down to it, it will be survival of the fittest before too long. This country is being turned into another 3rd world bankrupt country and has been for awhile. There are more problems at hand.

[gwnorth]

Just as you can't look at a skinny person (or a muscular one) and know that they are healthy, nor can you look at a fat person and asume that they are unhealthy. There is actually such a concept as healthy fat. Doctor's need to stop looking at BMI as a determiner of health. It is such an arbitrary measure. There are people who are overweight who do not have high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, or heart disease, just as there are skinny people who do. One shouldn't make a snap judgement about an individual's health based on their weight. The focus should be on actual health, not the appearance of it. Doesn't mean that we should glorify being overweight, just that we shouldn't automatically asume that someone is overweight because they are lazy and gluttonous and that they are a drain on the medical system.

[erinlee01]

So, we should ignore statistics? The ones that give health care costs due to obesity that are close to those of smoking are wrong and we shouldn't pay attention to it? While you are correct that just because someone is overweight doesn't mean they are unhealthy, but the statistics tell us that most of them are.

[gwnorth]

So, we should ignore statistics? The ones that give health care costs due to obesity that are close to those of smoking are wrong and we shouldn't pay attention to it? While you are correct that just because someone is overweight doesn't mean they are unhealthy, but the statistics tell us that most of them are.

No we shouldn't ignore statistics, but we should look to treat the actual underlying medical issues, regardless of weight. Many people believe that just because their weight falls within the normal range of BMI that they are automatically healthy. Look at the next leading cause of death after obesity - inactivity. There are many inactive "thin" people and many active "fat" people, and we all here understand the concept of skinny fat.

[SerpentHearted]

just posted this:


"to change your body to feel beautiful is wrong" : garbage.
you've never been to a hair stylist, worn makeup, or bought a nice new outfit then? People like to look and feel attractive, it's normal behaviour. I'm not sure why it's ok to pass judgement on the people who are prepared to put in the effort to make themselves happier, but it's not ok to pass judgement on people who are unhealthy and undisciplined and just full of excuses.

[pUniCepts]

Read most of thread, skimmed FB page...


I eat well, I exercise intensely multiple times per week. I am healthy. But I am fat (<-- see stats). Negating any of my lifestyle behaviors, according to the government, the news, and the diet industry I should be focusing 100% on losing weight if I value my health. Because regardless of my lifestyle choices, there's no possibility that my clean bill of health will continue because the number on the scale is as good as an obituary as far as they are concerned. Meanwhile, one of my best friends who never exercises, can't run more than 100 feet without getting out of breath (bless her heart), and barely eats is exempt from the messages outputted from these sources because she is 5 inches taller and about half my size. Am I bitter? Hell yeah I'm bitter, hence the personal anecdote.

Roughly same stats as one of my ex-gfs. She worked out, had a good diet. I was sedentary, had a sh!t diet. But I'm tall and slender so obviously I was the healthy one :rolleyes:



Let people be who they are, and celebrate what they like.

Personally, the fitness industry is one of the biggest shams in the world. A huge percent of people have been blinded with the way they look instead of worrying about real problems in the world. Who gives a sh!t if fatty is happy for being fat. The point is loving yourself, because if you can do that, you can love and accept others.

I myself am obese as everyone likes to point out on here. And after 18 years of being called fat, fatty, fatass, fatfuk, b!tchtits, fatmatt, I have come to realize that people are way too concerned with how others look/feel about themselves. It's not in your place to tell someone anything about how they look or how they should feel about themselves.

As far as healthcare goes, I don't really give a sh!t. Being as I don't live a meaningless life of cell phones/Ps3/xbox/tv's/etc.... I have what I need in this world, I don't mind helping people pay for some healthcare.

Besides, when it comes down to it, it will be survival of the fittest before too long. This country is being turned into another 3rd world bankrupt country and has been for awhile. There are more problems at hand.

this, except I'm not obese ;)

And let's be real, most of us would not care so much (if at all) that someone was unhealthy (too fat, too skinny, skinny-fat, fattty-skin) if it didn't cost us money.

Cost of people defaulting on mortgages during the housing collapse? Social/welfare/free money programs? (Excessive) military spending? None of this benefits me, but I pay for it because I'm a member of society (for now :)).

[MalditoVeneno]

...

[5more]

I am now aware whales and fish have different smells.

[SerpentHearted]

I recently had boudoir photos taken.

post 'em or negs. srs.






(not srs about negs but post 'em anyway :p )

[AnnieOlson]

this part from the link pissed me off the most: "We women, we gain weight because we accumulate so much wisdom and knowledge that there isn't enough space in our heads, and it spreads all over our bodies. We are not fat, we are greatly cultivated." <-- I'm actually FOR body acceptance, but wtf is this crap? hello, i got bigger because i liked to eat a lot of carbs, let's not mince the issue.

[Ecnewyx]

EDITEDIT: Also, I would be remiss in my liberal arts education if I didn't point out that all this discussion and debate ever revolves solely on the topic of female bodies. Where are the rants that the "fat Mac" character on It's Always Sunny is promoting obesity?!

For men? I don't know any fat guys who think it's better to be fat. Every fat guy I know would rather be thin and fit and look like the Abercrombie & Fitch models or whatever.

Many of them are just as delusional as to the cause of their current state of fatness, and probably blame it on being big-boned or genetics or not having enough time, but I've never heard nonsense like... their fat is spillover from excess wisdom coming from a guy.

[DaniGrrl]

post 'em or negs. srs.






(not srs about negs but post 'em anyway :p )

LOL. I dont have the prints in my hands yet so I can't post them :)

[LisaSkinnoble]

Sounds like a dumb ad. It sort of implies there are only two body types in this world.

I saw a funny ad in my gym this morning. A picture of somebody wearing a button down shirt (no face is showing, just the shirt and it's quite close up on the buttons, so I couldn't even tell if the person was male or female). The shirt is ill-fitting and the buttons are really pulling apart. The caption says "Quit blaming the dryer!" :D

[themyth2009]

Sounds like a dumb ad. It sort of implies there are only two body types in this world.

I saw a funny ad in my gym this morning. A picture of somebody wearing a button down shirt (no face is showing, just the shirt and it's quite close up on the buttons, so I couldn't even tell if the person was male or female). The shirt is ill-fitting and the buttons are really pulling apart. The caption says "Quit blaming the dryer!" :D

Two body types and if you have one you are living a great life and the other you are a bad parent, bad friend, missing out on life and living a shallow existence.

[latebloomingmom]

Two body types and if you have one you are living a great life and the other you are a bad parent, bad friend, missing out on life and living a shallow existence. dang it..it is as I have always suspected...

[paulett]

I've got two FB friends who have posted this so far. I responded to one saying that I'd rather be a mermaid that could punch someone's face out, not struggle with type 2 diabetes, heart disease, stroke or any other disease that comes with being over weight. Strange, no one commented after that.

I really want to yell at them and tell them they need to aspire to be healthy - and one cannot be healthy being over-weight/obese.

[paulett]

No, we're teaching the next generation:

Treat people the way you wish to be treated unless:
- they are poor
- they are fat
- they have a medical condition
- they are unemployed
- they smoke
- they are unintelligent/ignorant
- they have an addiction

Because all of these things of course are within their control and could be reversed if only they'd worked hard enough. :)

Don't forget that we are teaching our kids to be pussies, uncompetitive whiners and entitlement whores.

[themyth2009]

dang it..it is as I have always suspected...

I rather enjoy my shallow existence....:)


Don't forget that we are teaching our kids to be pussies, uncompetitive whiners and entitlement whores.

Speak for yourself....

[paulett]

Just something anecdotal from my own experience.

When I first started working out, I weighed almost 180 lbs. No one every commented on my weight.

After a couple of years of working out and dieting for competition, I got down to 140. Starting at around 145, people at work started to tell me that I needed to eat more, that I was getting too thin and looked unhealthy. You can look at my progress pics from around October of 2009 - I was in no way unhealthy looking.

I always found it interesting that when I was fat and unhealthy, no one said anything. But when I got healthy, MANY people started to tell me I was unhealthy.

So this. I have co-workers that constantly ask me when I'm going to stop with my "diet". LOL. Um, never. What about lifestyle change do you not get?

[paulett]

I rather enjoy my shallow existence....:)



Speak for yourself....

I meant in general. Not you personally Myth. I'm reminded of all the elementary schools that have banned dodge ball. Or the cute little football player that has been in the new recently who keeps getting benched because he is "too good" and the other kids need to play instead. /cringe

[RebeccaG]

Speak for yourself....

This.

I can't stand the "What kind of message are we sending to the children!?!?" nonsense.

:rolleyes:

[Ameinseto]

No, we're teaching the next generation:

Treat people the way you wish to be treated unless:
- they are poor
- they are fat
- they have a medical condition
- they are unemployed
- they smoke
- they are unintelligent/ignorant
- they have an addiction

Because all of these things of course are within their control and could be reversed if only they'd worked hard enough. :)

This is interesting. I'm bummed I didn't see this thread earlier, but here goes. Apologies in advance for spelling errors, I'm on my phone.

I took a class recently as one of my first pieces of graduate work on discrimination. Let me just get one thing straight, and we'll let the chips fall where they may: discrimination is judging someone based on one or several factors as opposed to their whole person. I realize this is a summary, but bear with me. Unacceptable discrimination, in my mind, is discrimination based on a factor that someone cannot help. This means ethnicity, height, gender, heritage, family, country of origin, primary language, ect.

This does NOT include changeable things like weight, smoking habits, and ingnorance. Weight CAN be changed if you work hard enough, from either side of the table. Many of the women here have overcome outstanding obstacles from obesity to nearly fatal ED problems, all while raising children, going to school, and working on their careers. They are to be celebrated, rather than those who haven't bothered to face the same obstacles being coddled and told that everything is alright. Smoking - same thing.

As for ignorance, there is a choice. You can always overcome your background and pursue greater things, REGARDLESS of where you came from. I have no interest in having any relationship with a person who cares nothing about educating themselves, both in and out of school. I hate it when people say "it can't be done." I come from a lower class family and have worked my ass off working 40-80 hour a week and babysitting on the side while going to school full time and gaining experience to get me where I am now. I took out loans, scraped by, and learned to fend for myself. So, yeah. My friends who can't get jobs because they worked 15 hours of part time retail over the past four of five years? Sorry, don't care.

/rant

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but those of us who have worked so hard for something out of terrible circumstances and seen several other people do the same thing tend to get a little pissed when people are trying to uplift those who just don't feel like it's worth the effort. People need stop glorifying the obstacles and lose their apathy.

[latebloomingmom]

I rather enjoy my shallow existence....:)



ya well Mythy... we can ALL see what body type you got now can't we?:} no doubt your existence though shallow(you said it not me) is highly entertaining..

[Ameinseto]

So this. I have co-workers that constantly ask me when I'm going to stop with my "diet". LOL. Um, never. What about lifestyle change do you not get?

Thank you.

Umm... Hi? What was that? Why am I on a diet? I look great already? Well gee, thanks! I guess if I don't look like crap on the outside I shouldn't be worried about adding more crap on the inside, right?!?!

I'm sorry, I forgot that caring about your health in this society makes you "obsessed." You call it whatever you want. I'll just smile while I run circles around you and outlive you by a couple decades. ;)

[Ameinseto]

Are you kidding I would pound chicken tuna for breakfast, lunch, dinner and a middle of the night snack.



Good grammar and good taste? We can be friends. :cool:

Seriously, how is "chunky" more attractive than her? She's one of the hottest 40-somethings I've ever seen. Actually, she's one of the hottest people I've ever seen, period.

[themyth2009]

I meant in general. Not you personally Myth. I'm reminded of all the elementary schools that have banned dodge ball. Or the cute little football player that has been in the new recently who keeps getting benched because he is "too good" and the other kids need to play instead. /cringe

Alllllll winners here. Here is your 12th place ribbon.



This.

I can't stand the "What kind of message are we sending to the children!?!?" nonsense.

:rolleyes:

As a parent you have the largest influence in your kids lives. Sure society also does but at the end of the day I look at it as my job and responsibility.


This is interesting. I'm bummed I didn't see this thread earlier, but here goes. Apologies in advance for spelling errors, I'm on my phone.

I took a class recently as one of my first pieces of graduate work on discrimination. Let me just get one thing straight, and we'll let the chips fall where they may: discrimination is judging someone based on one or several factors as opposed to their whole person. I realize this is a summary, but bear with me. Unacceptable discrimination, in my mind, is discrimination based on a factor that someone cannot help. This means ethnicity, height, gender, heritage, family, country of origin, primary language, ect.

This does NOT include changeable things like weight, smoking habits, and ingnorance. Weight CAN be changed if you work hard enough, from either side of the table. Many of the women here have overcome outstanding obstacles from obesity to nearly fatal ED problems, all while raising children, going to school, and working on their careers. They are to be celebrated, rather than those who haven't bothered to face the same obstacles being coddled and told that everything is alright. Smoking - same thing.

As for ignorance, there is a choice. You can always overcome your background and pursue greater things, REGARDLESS of where you came from. I have no interest in having any relationship with a person who cares nothing about educating themselves, both in and out of school. I hate it when people say "it can't be done." I come from a lower class family and have worked my ass off working 40-80 hour a week and babysitting on the side while going to school full time and gaining experience to get me where I am now. I took out loans, scraped by, and learned to fend for myself. So, yeah. My friends who can't get jobs because they worked 15 hours of part time retail over the past four of five years? Sorry, don't care.

/rant

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but those of us who have worked so hard for something out of terrible circumstances and seen several other people do the same thing tend to get a little pissed when people are trying to uplift those who just don't feel like it's worth the effort. People need stop glorifying the obstacles and lose their apathy.

Excuses are for losers.


ya well Mythy... we can ALL see what body type you got now can't we?:} no doubt your existence though shallow(you said it not me) is highly entertaining..

Dont label me...I am victim I tell you I was born this way. I have a disease. Blah blah blah.

[themyth2009]

Good grammar and good taste? We can be friends. :cool:

Seriously, how is "chunky" more attractive than her? She's one of the hottest 40-somethings I've ever seen. Actually, she's one of the hottest people I've ever seen, period.

Good grammar? You must not be familiar with my work. lolz

[latebloomingmom]

Dont label me...I am victim I tell you I was born this way. I have a disease. Blah blah blah.
Ya...you mean the MYTH label???????ya pretty sure you gave that one to yourself..:}

[Ameinseto]

Good grammar? You must not be familiar with my work. lolz

Oh, well. One for two. Ha ha.

[themyth2009]

Ya...you mean the MYTH label???????ya pretty sure you gave that one to yourself..:}

Well played. Pretty sure most people on here set their own label. Or do your friends refer to you as late blooming mom?

[latebloomingmom]

Well played. Pretty sure most people on here set their own label. Or do your friends refer to you as late blooming mom? Uhhh dont think they would think I was late blooming... just teasing ya know...sheesh kinda sensitive ain't ya?
I understand we all make our own labels. mine is referring to starting the lifting so late in life. It's all I could come up with at the time.

[themyth2009]

Oh, well. One for two. Ha ha.

That is better than I normally do.


Uhhh dont think they would think I was late blooming... just teasing ya know...sheesh kinda sensitive ain't ya?
I understand we all make our own labels. mine is referring to starting the lifting so late in life. It's all I could come up with at the time.

Teasing back....I am almost never serious. Have you not figured that out by now?

[latebloomingmom]

Teasing back....I am almost never serious. Have you not figured that out by now?sorry..must be a slow-learner.

[CoffeCanSlayer]

This.

I can't stand the "What kind of message are we sending to the children!?!?" nonsense.

:rolleyes:

Actually she's right, but you wouldn't know because your a fuking idiot.

[DearZorro]

Neither. I want to be a icebear :)

[SerpentHearted]

wait. some of you are saying she's not obese?

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/320756_2545702681966_1235752135_33215266_110189825 7_n.jpg

her thigh would be as big as my waist and I'm 9 kilos overweight myself.

[AnnieOlson]

wait. some of you are saying she's not obese?

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/320756_2545702681966_1235752135_33215266_110189825 7_n.jpg

her thigh would be as big as my waist and I'm 9 kilos overweight myself.

probably obese. but damn i never looked this pretty when i was fat.

[ExclusiveStarr]

probably obese. but damn i never looked this pretty when i was fat.

That's because she's a model. . .comparing the average overweight/obese woman to a plus size model is laughable. The average obese woman looks nothing like her. It's the equivalent of comparing me to a Victoria's Secret model.

[gwnorth]

That's because she's a model. . .comparing the average overweight/obese woman to a plus size model is laughable. The average obese woman looks nothing like her. It's the equivalent of coming me to a Victoria's Secret model.

Actually I'd say you're getting pretty close.

Not sure she is obese. Yes she has large thighs, but the rolls around her middle aren't that big and are in part to the way she's sitting. Based on her hands and feet I'd also think she's large framed to start with.

[seanb1979]

probably obese. but damn i never looked this pretty when i was fat.

photoshop does wonders.. id be interested to see the pre-touched up pic

[themyth2009]

photoshop does wonders.. id be interested to see the pre-touched up pic

Agree was going to make same point....now maybe they are guilty of promoting the unattainable fat image.

[Ameinseto]

Agree was going to make same point....now maybe they are guilty of promoting the unattainable fat image.

Bahahahaa... That's exactly what I thought.

[SerpentHearted]

lol some girl on my FB just reposted this, and now I'm catching hell for saying "unhealthy body mass index".

[AnnieOlson]

That's because she's a model. . .comparing the average overweight/obese woman to a plus size model is laughable. The average obese woman looks nothing like her. It's the equivalent of comparing me to a Victoria's Secret model.

i don't find most victoria secret models attractive tbqh. and no, it's not because they're skinny.

[CameOnUBro]

*facepalm*

I did not read the text accompanying the picture (derp) though it makes the title of thread a little more sensical. But to be fair (to myself) my responses were geared to the picture itself and whatever message it was supposedly promoting.

Honestly, picking on the shape of someone's body is just icky on so many levels, whoever it is. That's what annoys me about phrases like "real women have curves!" or "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" (even besides the disordered history a statement like that has). Ugh. Why does feeling good about oneself have to be at the expense of others? It's like feeling smart by point out someone else's ignorance.

EDIT: And Christine's blog post (as usual) is full of win and she basically articulated way better what I've been trying to say. whew

EDITEDIT: Also, I would be remiss in my liberal arts education if I didn't point out that all this discussion and debate ever revolves solely on the topic of female bodies. Where are the rants that the "fat Mac" character on It's Always Sunny is promoting obesity?!

First of all, the other posters comments do not encapsulate what you have been trying to say. You've had useless arguments all over the board. There is so much wrong with your way of thinking.

LAST THING- They mock Mac constantly for being fat, they keep making jokes about his weight gain (like when he calls it mass), they have showed him running out of breath and injecting insulin. YEAH TARD, i think they are doing a pretty good job not promoting obesity.

[kegels]

I thought that thing was dumb as hell/nonsensical at best when I saw it posted on fb, but there's nothing wrong with having self-esteem as a fat person.

Case in point, most women on bb.com would probably throw themselves off a bridge if they weighed as much as I do, but I like how I look. I identify as fat and that's okay. That self-love is what keeps me going to the gym, not self-loathing. No one ever successfully improves a body they hated to begin with.

And if they never want to change? Well no matter how you try to spin it or whichever pseudo-scientific political implication argument you try to use, it's still fundamentally none of your business. Just remove that person from your feed if it bothers you so much.

[paulett]

probably obese. but damn i never looked this pretty when i was fat.

That is because she has a pretty face (not that you don't) and she has really nice skin (which is probably airbrushed). Most people this size, do not even remotely look this attractive.

[paulett]

Alllllll winners here. Here is your 12th place ribbon.

I want a trophy damn it!!

[paulett]

Agree was going to make same point....now maybe they are guilty of promoting the unattainable fat image.

Never really looked at it that way. But you do have a valid point.

[erinlee01]

I thought that thing was dumb as hell/nonsensical at best when I saw it posted on fb, but there's nothing wrong with having self-esteem as a fat person.

Case in point, most women on bb.com would probably throw themselves off a bridge if they weighed as much as I do, but I like how I look. I identify as fat and that's okay. That self-love is what keeps me going to the gym, not self-loathing. No one ever successfully improves a body they hated to begin with.

And if they never want to change? Well no matter how you try to spin it or whichever pseudo-scientific political implication argument you try to use, it's still fundamentally none of your business. Just remove that person from your feed if it bothers you so much.

I disagree with the bolded sentence above. I, for one, hated my body when I was at my heaviest. I'm quite happy with where I have gotten.

[Ameinseto]

I thought that thing was dumb as hell/nonsensical at best when I saw it posted on fb, but there's nothing wrong with having self-esteem as a fat person.

Case in point, most women on bb.com would probably throw themselves off a bridge if they weighed as much as I do, but I like how I look. I identify as fat and that's okay. That self-love is what keeps me going to the gym, not self-loathing. No one ever successfully improves a body they hated to begin with.

And if they never want to change? Well no matter how you try to spin it or whichever pseudo-scientific political implication argument you try to use, it's still fundamentally none of your business. Just remove that person from your feed if it bothers you so much.

As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with weight or BMI and everything to do with health, which is why it's akin to smoking. Cigarettes can make you unattractive, too, but the real problem is that they're killing you.

The "what are we teaching our kids?" argument isn't about weight to me. It's about the fact that people are promoting this idea that living a lifestyle of eating crap and not exercising is fine as long as you accept yourself. Same goes for the opposite, eating nothing as a lifestyle to stay skinny so you will feel good about you. Please... When it comes down to it, whether you're gorging yourself on junk or living off of nothing but celery, you're killing yourself. Is it so ridiculous that we're trying to teach our friends, family, selves, and children to be confident AND healthy? It's great to love your body, but love it because of what it's doing for you and how healthy it's becoming, not based on what weight it is at any given moment.

And if it's none of our business what someone wants to do to themselves, then why is it alright to try and get a friend to stop smoking? If I hide their cigarettes, I'm being a good friend, but if I replace everything in their house with protein and produce, I'm being insensitive? Bullsh*t.

[latebloomingmom]

I disagree with the bolded sentence above. I, for one, hated my body when I was at my heaviest. I'm quite happy with where I have gotten. absolutely sister! me too!

[latebloomingmom]

That is because she has a pretty face (not that you don't) and she has really nice skin (which is probably airbrushed). Most people this size, do not even remotely look this attractive. uhh to this one I will have to say...there are a great many people girls and boys that are heavy that may have wonderful skin tone and beautiful faces. That is part of what they inherit from the gene pool and nothing to do with the weight issue. I will also say it's harder to see this when your face is heavy cause you cannot see the definition of your cheeks, your jawline but it is still there.

[paulett]

uhh to this one I will have to say...there are a great many people girls and boys that are heavy that may have wonderful skin tone and beautiful faces. That is part of what they inherit from the gene pool and nothing to do with the weight issue. I will also say it's harder to see this when your face is heavy cause you cannot see the definition of your cheeks, your jawline but it is still there.

I suppose I should not generalize. I just have not personally met many people as attractive as her.

[norinicole]

I thought that thing was dumb as hell/nonsensical at best when I saw it posted on fb, but there's nothing wrong with having self-esteem as a fat person.

Case in point, most women on bb.com would probably throw themselves off a bridge if they weighed as much as I do, but I like how I look. I identify as fat and that's okay. That self-love is what keeps me going to the gym, not self-loathing. No one ever successfully improves a body they hated to begin with.

And if they never want to change? Well no matter how you try to spin it or whichever pseudo-scientific political implication argument you try to use, it's still fundamentally none of your business. Just remove that person from your feed if it bothers you so much.

Actually, it is part of my business since I pay towards health care for the general public. Which means when you run into health problems such as joint pain, high blood pressure, heart problems, etc, MY money is helping to pay the care that you receive. (By "you", I mean the fatter population that lives in my province and city).



I suppose I should not generalize. I just have not personally met many people as attractive as her.

Agreed. I don't think the majority of overweight people have good skin tone and a jawline.

[themyth2009]

I want a trophy damn it!!

12th place loser....I mean winner trophy coming right up.


I disagree with the bolded sentence above. I, for one, hated my body when I was at my heaviest. I'm quite happy with where I have gotten.

I am never happy with mine....that is what helps keep me going.


uhh to this one I will have to say...there are a great many people girls and boys that are heavy that may have wonderful skin tone and beautiful faces. That is part of what they inherit from the gene pool and nothing to do with the weight issue. I will also say it's harder to see this when your face is heavy cause you cannot see the definition of your cheeks, your jawline but it is still there.

Depends on how heavy. Some people look great 20lbs heavy. 40lbs not sure.

[erinlee01]

12th place loser....I mean winner trophy coming right up.



I am never happy with mine....that is what helps keep me going.



Depends on how heavy. Some people look great 20lbs heavy. 40lbs not sure.

But would you say it has improved? I still think you can successfully improve a body you hated to begin with. I can't say I have my ideal body, but I'm happy with how I've improved it thus far. And I no longer hate it.

[ExclusiveStarr]

Actually I'd say you're getting pretty close.

Not sure she is obese. Yes she has large thighs, but the rolls around her middle aren't that big and are in part to the way she's sitting. Based on her hands and feet I'd also think she's large framed to start with.

What I mean is, I'll never look like a model. It's a genetic impossibility because I'm a good 6-7 inches too short and my body type is all wrong. The model was chosen to be a model in the first place because of genetics. . . good symmetry, fat distribution, pretty face, and flatish stomach for someone her size etc. But she is in no way typical or representative of what the average overweight person looks like because at the end of the day she's a MODEL. Like someone else said. . .an unobtainable fat image. Google "Tara Lynn Vogue" and you'll see what I mean.


That is because she has a pretty face (not that you don't) and she has really nice skin (which is probably airbrushed). Most people this size, do not even remotely look this attractive.

I know some attractive people who also happen to be overweight, being thin is no guarentee of facial attractiveness, it's all genetics.

[illiniStrive]

Agreed. I don't think the majority of overweight people have good skin tone and a jawline.

Ouch.

[themyth2009]

But would you say it has improved? I still think you can successfully improve a body you hated to begin with. I can't say I have my ideal body, but I'm happy with how I've improved it thus far. And I no longer hate it.

Yeah for sure since I was 125lbs when I started.

I think improvement has a lot more to do with liking yourself or being motivated to change things that you dont like about yourself. So agree you can improve a body you hate. When I started it had nothing to do with hating my body. I thought working out would improve my self esteem, self confidence in all phases of my life like it did for other people.

Now of course I have other motivations such as health. I want to be able to enjoy my life. Get out and do things. When I have grand kids I want to be able to play with them like I did my own kids.

[norinicole]

Ouch.

Granted, that's based on the people who I have come in contact with. There's a whole lot of other people I'm not going to meet, so who knows. Maybe I'm meeting the minority.

[illiniStrive]

Granted, that's based on the people who I have come in contact with. There's a whole lot of other people I'm not going to meet, so who knows. Maybe I'm meeting the minority.

I'd say my skin and bone structure and doing quite fine. High cheekbones ftw.

[themyth2009]

I'd say my skin and bone structure and doing quite fine. High cheekbones ftw.

I can tell this is a pretty sensitive topic for you but she did say majority not all or not must. I think being significantly overweight or underweight distorts both your face and body. Hard to have a defined jawline with multiple chins.

Women are always going to have a value placed on looks. Just the way it is.

Men have it to just different. Education, ambition, job, wealth, etc. I dont see anyone rallying around saying this is wrong and men should feel great about themselves no matter their education, job, or wealth. I can just see it now a 40 year old man dressed in a Mcdonalds uniform saying you want fries with that in an ad talking about just how much better he is than the doctor down the street.

[kegels]

As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with weight or BMI and everything to do with health, which is why it's akin to smoking. Cigarettes can make you unattractive, too, but the real problem is that they're killing you.

The "what are we teaching our kids?" argument isn't about weight to me. It's about the fact that people are promoting this idea that living a lifestyle of eating crap and not exercising is fine as long as you accept yourself. Same goes for the opposite, eating nothing as a lifestyle to stay skinny so you will feel good about you. Please... When it comes down to it, whether you're gorging yourself on junk or living off of nothing but celery, you're killing yourself. Is it so ridiculous that we're trying to teach our friends, family, selves, and children to be confident AND healthy? It's great to love your body, but love it because of what it's doing for you and how healthy it's becoming, not based on what weight it is at any given moment.

And if it's none of our business what someone wants to do to themselves, then why is it alright to try and get a friend to stop smoking? If I hide their cigarettes, I'm being a good friend, but if I replace everything in their house with protein and produce, I'm being insensitive? Bullsh*t.

I'm fat, I've always been fat, and I'm not gorging myself on anything. I think it's a little presumptuous of you or anyone else to assume I'm killing myself just because I look a certain way.

The point is that as adults we shouldn't assume anyone else desires or requires our approval. None of what you say changes the fact that it's none of your business if say, I wanted to stay the size I am for the rest of my life. No one is asking for your respect, just your acceptance that it's not your life and no one asked for your opinion so you're not entitled to have anyone listen to it.

Because yeah, if someone smokes and then tells you to back off about it, after a certain point as a friend you should respect that. How patronizing it is to expect that people should just have to tolerate any level of condescension as long as "it's good for them."

[erinlee01]

I'm fat, I've always been fat, and I'm not gorging myself on anything. I think it's a little presumptuous of you or anyone else to assume I'm killing myself just because I look a certain way.

The point is that as adults we shouldn't assume anyone else desires or requires our approval. None of what you say changes the fact that it's none of your business if say, I wanted to stay the size I am for the rest of my life. No one is asking for your respect, just your acceptance that it's not your life and no one asked for your opinion so you're not entitled to have anyone listen to it.

Because yeah, if someone smokes and then tells you to back off about it, after a certain point as a friend you should respect that. How patronizing it is to expect that people should just have to tolerate any level of condescension as long as "it's good for them."

There are statistics on obesity and the cost of healthcare. Sorry, but with the proposals for healthcare that are on the table, we do have the right to say something to people who are creating higher healthcare costs for us all BY CHOICE. This goes for obesity and smoking.

It's irresponsible to live in a bubble and say you can do whatever you want no matter what the consequence to others. When someone is doing something that impacts me, I am entitled to give my opinion and a responsible person would listen.

[kegels]

Actually, it is part of my business since I pay towards health care for the general public. Which means when you run into health problems such as joint pain, high blood pressure, heart problems, etc, MY money is helping to pay the care that you receive. (By "you", I mean the fatter population that lives in my province and city).



There are statistics on obesity and the cost of healthcare. Sorry, but with the proposals for healthcare that are on the table, we do have the right to say something to people who are creating higher healthcare costs for us all BY CHOICE. This goes for obesity and smoking.

It's irresponsible to live in a bubble and say you can do whatever you want no matter what the consequence to others. When someone is doing something that impacts me, I am entitled to give my opinion and a responsible person would listen.

These are two examples of one of the worst strawman arguments. We all pay directly or indirectly for the individual lifestyle choices that people make and it's no reason to then think we have the right to restrict those choices. The cost of living in a free society means there's always going to be some level of a free (or in this case lesser) rider problem, and most people end up thinking the solutions are things that have been proven to be terrible ineffective policy, like taxing fattier food or cutting benefits based on bmi.

Like just because you pay taxes doesn't mean I don't also pay taxes as a fat person. It doesn't give you any more dominion over my life than my taxes do over yours.

[illiniStrive]

I can tell this is a pretty sensitive topic for you but she did say majority not all or not must. I think being significantly overweight or underweight distorts both your face and body. Hard to have a defined jawline with multiple chins.

Women are always going to have a value placed on looks. Just the way it is.

Men have it to just different. Education, ambition, job, wealth, etc. I dont see anyone rallying around saying this is wrong and men should feel great about themselves no matter their education, job, or wealth. I can just see it now a 40 year old man dressed in a Mcdonalds uniform saying you want fries with that in an ad talking about just how much better he is than the doctor down the street.

Um, hello, why would this not be a sensitive topic? I have one chin thank you very much.

So because it's "just the way it is" that makes it fine?

There's another thread which had this in the OP:

I'm sure that some of these ugly women are great wives, mothers, girlfriends, sisters, etc. I'm sure they have great personalities... But does that really change the fact that they're not physically attractive?

Weight and physical attractiveness are completely gendered, no doubt about that.

Ugh, I'm trying to find a foothold to respond to your post, but it's really messed up so it's hard to grasp on one definite thing.

[erinlee01]

These are two examples of one of the worst strawman arguments. We all pay directly or indirectly for the individual lifestyle choices that people make and it's no reason to then think we have the right to restrict those choices. The cost of living in a free society means there's always going to be some level of a free (or in this case lesser) rider problem, and most people end up thinking the solutions are things that have been proven to be terrible ineffective policy, like taxing fattier food or cutting benefits based on bmi.

Like just because you pay taxes means I don't also pay taxes as a fat person. It doesn't give you any more dominion over my life than my taxes do over yours.

You are really missing the point. You do understand that we are talking healthcare costs and not taxes, right? Your arguments make no sense.

[illiniStrive]

Okay, can someone very clearly (as if I were 5 years old) outline how I as an individual am raising healthcare costs? I'm completely serious.

Some relevant information:
- Am currently still under my parents' healthcare provider
- No prescriptions
- Haven't been the ER since I was a kid
- Smoking: Never have, never will
- Blood pressure: low normal/normal
- Exercise 3-5 days a week
- Mile time: 8:30 (pretty slow, not a runner lol)
- No cavities

Go.

[erinlee01]

Okay, can someone very clearly (as if I were 5 years old) outline how I as an individual am raising healthcare costs? I'm completely serious.

Some relevant information:
- Am currently still under my parents' healthcare provider
- No prescriptions
- Haven't been the ER since I was a kid
- Smoking: Never have, never will
- Blood pressure: low normal/normal
- Exercise 3-5 days a week
- Mile time: 8:30 (pretty slow, not a runner lol)
- No cavities

Go.

You personally, probably not. Again, I think a few people are missing the point that most people in this thread are referring to the obese and not the slightly overweight.

The obese population as a whole has healthcare costs of $147 billion per year, and the smoking population as a whole $200 billion per year. These costs are solely attributable to obesity or smoking.

Insurance companies have to pay those costs when incurred. But insurance companies are not in the business to lose money, so as these costs go up, so do insurance premiums. And who play insurance premiums? We do.

So, does an individual impact the costs? No, not really. But when you have a large population of people willingly engaging in unhealthy habits, it adds up.

[kegels]

You are really missing the point. You do understand that we are talking healthcare costs and not taxes, right? Your arguments make no sense.

Yes, and in an example given farther upthread, taxes contribute to the national healthcare system of that country.

In our case as Americans, the most expensive people in the system are not fatties but the dying. End of life care is by and large the greatest burden on our tax funded systems like Medicare. More than 30% of total costs are for caring for people in their last year of life, 40% in the last month alone. And even then only 10% of the elderly use 70% of the total budget. Where's the outrage against the old people who are clearly claiming more than their fair share and raising costs by being decrepit and ill?

There isn't any, because the argument that fat people put a burden on healthcare is very lopsided compared to the many kinds of people that put many different kinds of burdens on the healthcare system.

[themyth2009]

Um, hello, why would this not be a sensitive topic? I have one chin thank you very much.

So because it's "just the way it is" that makes it fine?

There's another thread which had this in the OP:


Weight and physical attractiveness are completely gendered, no doubt about that.

Ugh, I'm trying to find a foothold to respond to your post, but it's really messed up so it's hard to grasp on one definite thing.

U missed the point. One seems to be an outrage to you the other you could care less. So you seem fine with one and not the other. Sorry cant have it both ways.

[kegels]

Not to mention that I'm pretty positive that when people even in this thread hear "obese" they picture someone who is morbidly obese, someone who is more than 100lbs overweight and has a lot of physically restrictive problems.

People who are considered obese by BMI constitute 33% of Americans, but less than 3% of Americans are morbidly obese or larger. Not to mention the fact that supposedly in my city 1 in 5 adult women are supposed to be obese if you believe the stats, but I almost never see any woman my size or larger than myself. BMI is a severely skewed measurement and a terrible basis for public health policy.

[erinlee01]

Yes, and in an example given farther upthread, taxes contribute to the national healthcare system of that country.

In our case as Americans, the most expensive people in the system are not fatties but the dying. End of life care is by and large the greatest burden on our tax funded systems like Medicare. More than 30% of total costs are for caring for people in their last year of life, 40% in the last month alone. And even then only 10% of the elderly use 70% of the total budget. Where's the outrage against the old people who are clearly claiming more than their fair share and raising costs by being decrepit and ill?

There isn't any, because the argument that fat people put a burden on healthcare is very lopsided compared to the many kinds of people that put many different kinds of burdens on the healthcare system.

You really should do some research on this topic:

http://www.miller-mccune.com/health/obesity-aging-cause-ballooning-health-care-costs-31879/


People who live an unusually long time tend to be healthier during their later years than shorter-lived people. That means longer-lived ones typically have lower medical costs during their golden years. This health dividend more than offsets the health care costs they accrue by outliving less healthy people.


Unfortunately, there’s a giant exception to the rule that the longer life tends to be a healthier one: Obese people are living longer, thanks to factors such as cholesterol-cutting medicines (as is the entire population), but much of their extra time is spent in ill health, and as a result, their annual medical bills are some 42 percent higher than those of normal-weight people.


The CDC recently attributed $147 billion a year in U.S. medical costs to obesity — over 9 percent of all U.S. health care spending. The nation’s obesity bills are just beginning to ramp up, though, and will soon be growing at a pace comparable to the increase in government medical spending due to the graying of boomers. Annual obesity-related health care costs are projected to rise by nearly $265 billion a year between 2008 and 2018, while annual Medicare expenditures are expected to increase by about $360 billion during the same period. And much of the rise in Medicare spending will go toward treating obesity-related diseases.

[paulett]

Okay, can someone very clearly (as if I were 5 years old) outline how I as an individual am raising healthcare costs? I'm completely serious.

Some relevant information:
- Am currently still under my parents' healthcare provider
- No prescriptions
- Haven't been the ER since I was a kid
- Smoking: Never have, never will
- Blood pressure: low normal/normal
- Exercise 3-5 days a week
- Mile time: 8:30 (pretty slow, not a runner lol)
- No cavities

Go.
This does not apply to you as you are trying to improve your health through exercise and eating right. You are also very young. If you had chose a road where you decided not to take control of your health, by the time you are 30 you'd be one of the statistics.

[illiniStrive]

U missed the point. One seems to be an outrage to you the other you could care less. So you seem fine with one and not the other. Sorry cant have it both ways.

Fine with what and not the other what? Can you be specific instead of vague?

If it has to do with the poorly written McDonald's example, there's no reason for the man in the McDonald's position to feel emasculated by his profession. But if he wants to be a doctor or a CEO, then he's going to have to work within whatever limitations life has given him -- but he's still going to have to put in effort. But if he's content making minimum wage and enjoys his life then why should he feel obligated to go to medical school and be a doctor?

The problem with your example is that, um, hello, women also have careers, and money, and education. But these things are often negated by physical attractiveness (or lack thereof). Donald Trump may get picked on occasionally, but nothing changes the fact that he is highly successful and incredibly rich. Meanwhile Oprah's weight has always been a relevant topic of discussion (hence her constant yo-yo dieting) regardless of what she's accomplished and how much money she has. Why is Bill Clinton allowed to be old and crusty, but not Hillary? Why are Michelle Obama's "ripped arms and shoulders" more interesting than her JD from Harvard?

[paulett]

Yes, and in an example given farther upthread, taxes contribute to the national healthcare system of that country.

In our case as Americans, the most expensive people in the system are not fatties but the dying. End of life care is by and large the greatest burden on our tax funded systems like Medicare. More than 30% of total costs are for caring for people in their last year of life, 40% in the last month alone. And even then only 10% of the elderly use 70% of the total budget. Where's the outrage against the old people who are clearly claiming more than their fair share and raising costs by being decrepit and ill?

There isn't any, because the argument that fat people put a burden on healthcare is very lopsided compared to the many kinds of people that put many different kinds of burdens on the healthcare system.

Old people can't help getting old. Obese people can change being oveweight and thus reduce their risk of illness that are related to obesity. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[NOVA888]

These are two examples of one of the worst strawman arguments. We all pay directly or indirectly for the individual lifestyle choices that people make and it's no reason to then think we have the right to restrict those choices. The cost of living in a free society means there's always going to be some level of a free (or in this case lesser) rider problem, and most people end up thinking the solutions are things that have been proven to be terrible ineffective policy, like taxing fattier food or cutting benefits based on bmi.

Like just because you pay taxes doesn't mean I don't also pay taxes as a fat person. It doesn't give you any more dominion over my life than my taxes do over yours.

It's a good argument that you present here. But like many other issues that weren't a concern decades ago (gun control for instance), the increasing poor health of our countrymen/women (as a result of poor diet), is something that must be reevaluated, whether it's perceived as a strawman argument or not.

I live in Hawaii, and we purchase our own health insurance because we're self-employed. However, each year our premiums rise between 15-23% (yes, you read that right). The reason being, we have an obesity epidemic here, which in turn means a higher population of residents that are diabetic, on their way to becoming diabetic, or on their way having dietary/weight strokes, heart disease, etc. Even some cancers are now being linked to obesity.

So yes, it's a problem for us all, especially when health insurance premiums rise each year like clockwork as a result of the burden caused by obesity. And to add insult to injury, obesity has not only become tolerated, it's also become a politicized argument. What's also saddening is that obesity is now being celebrated as some sort of 'right of femininity' (as in real women have curves, etc.). Yes, we're gullible indeed. The only people profiting from obesity are those producing the empty-carb/sugar-laden garbage that's loosely being referred to as 'food' (lol), or the big pharmaceutical companies that profit heavily from a society that becomes increasingly sicker/more reliant on medication.

Yes, this needs to be discussed IMO, the same way cigarette smoking has been discussed, and the decorum/laws/taxes surrounding the behavior reevaluated. No man is an island, and what my neighbor does (or doesn't do) has a ripple effect on us all. It is my business, and it should be your business as well, as we're the ones losing. And I say this as a woman that once weighed 215 pounds, and comes from a family of 'big' women.

[norinicole]

Yes, and in an example given farther upthread, taxes contribute to the national healthcare system of that country.

In our case as Americans, the most expensive people in the system are not fatties but the dying. End of life care is by and large the greatest burden on our tax funded systems like Medicare. More than 30% of total costs are for caring for people in their last year of life, 40% in the last month alone. And even then only 10% of the elderly use 70% of the total budget. Where's the outrage against the old people who are clearly claiming more than their fair share and raising costs by being decrepit and ill?

There isn't any, because the argument that fat people put a burden on healthcare is very lopsided compared to the many kinds of people that put many different kinds of burdens on the healthcare system.

Seriously? You're going to compare people getting old to people who are fat?

Last I checked there wasn't a choice to growing old. There is a choice in deciding what you feed your body. And if anything, the fact that our population is so much heavier than before would make end of life care and the care of the elderly that much harder in the coming years.

Or maybe not...if a really fat old person falls, would the layers of cellulite prevent a broken hip?


Not to mention that I'm pretty positive that when people even in this thread hear "obese" they picture someone who is morbidly obese, someone who is more than 100lbs overweight and has a lot of physically restrictive problems.

People who are considered obese by BMI constitute 33% of Americans, but less than 3% of Americans are morbidly obese or larger. Not to mention the fact that supposedly in my city 1 in 5 adult women are supposed to be obese if you believe the stats, but I almost never see any woman my size or larger than myself. BMI is a severely skewed measurement and a terrible basis for public health policy.

I agree, the BMI is not a good measurement to determine if someone is obese/overweight and/or unhealthy.

[themyth2009]

Fine with what and not the other what? Can you be specific instead of vague?

If it has to do with the poorly written McDonald's example, there's no reason for the man in the McDonald's position should feel emasculated by his profession. But if he wants to be a doctor or a CEO, then he's going to have to work within whatever limitations life has given him -- but he's still going to have to put in effort. But if he's content making minimum wage and enjoys his life then why should he feel obligated to go to medical school and be a doctor?

Lolz are you trying to insult me?


POINT 1: It appears you have a big problem with men placing a high value on women's looks.

POINT 2: Women place a high value on what security a man can provide them. Do you have a problem with that?

[erinlee01]

It's a good argument that you present here. But like many other issues that weren't a concern decades ago (gun control for instance), the increasing poor health of our countrymen/women (as a result of poor diet), is something that must be reevaluated, whether it's perceived as a strawman argument or not.

I live in Hawaii, and we purchase our own health insurance because we're self-employed. However, each year our premiums rise between 15-23% (yes, you read that right). The reason being, we have an obesity epidemic here, which in turn means a higher population of residents that are diabetic, on their way to becoming diabetic, or on their way having dietary/weight strokes, heart disease, etc. Even some cancers are now being linked to obesity.

So yes, it's a problem for us all, especially when health insurance premiums rise each year like clockwork as a result of the burden caused by obesity. And to add insult to injury, obesity has not only become tolerated, it's also become a politicized argument. What's also saddening is that obesity is now being celebrated as some sort of 'right of femininity' (as in real women have curves, etc.). Yes, we're gullible indeed. The only people profiting from obesity are those producing the empty-carb/sugar-laden garbage that's loosely being referred to as 'food' (lol), or the big pharmaceutical companies that profit heavily from a society that becomes increasingly sicker/more reliant on medication.

Yes, this needs to be discussed IMO, the same way cigarette smoking has been discussed, and the decorum/laws/taxes surrounding the behavior reevaluated. No man is an island, and what my neighbor does (or doesn't do) has a ripple effect on us all. It is my business, and it should be your business as well, as we're the ones losing. And I say this as a woman that once weighed 215 pounds, and comes from a family of 'big' women.

EXCELLENT post.

[seanb1979]

Okay, can someone very clearly (as if I were 5 years old) outline how I as an individual am raising healthcare costs? I'm completely serious.

Some relevant information:
- Am currently still under my parents' healthcare provider
- No prescriptions
- Haven't been the ER since I was a kid
- Smoking: Never have, never will
- Blood pressure: low normal/normal
- Exercise 3-5 days a week
- Mile time: 8:30 (pretty slow, not a runner lol)
- No cavities

Go.

Why are you using yourself as a comparison? If you had 100 extra lbs and were a bit older, then you'd be able to submit yourself as a sample.

[seanb1979]

Lolz are you trying to insult me?


POINT 1: It appears you have a big problem with men placing a high value on women's looks.

POINT 2: Women place a high value on what security a man can provide them. Do you have a problem with that?

Nah man, its better to want a man for money than to want a woman for her looks.

[illiniStrive]

Lolz are you trying to insult me?


POINT 1: It appears you have a big problem with men placing a high value on women's looks.

POINT 2: Women place a high value on what security a man can provide them. Do you have a problem with that?

POINT 1: It's not only men who place value on women's looks. Women place value on women's looks as well, we all participate in it. Attractiveness is a currency for both sexes, but particularly acts as a sole definer for females. It's one thing to find someone attractive--it's biology. It's another to place this attractiveness as the highest priority over education, success, personality, quality of life. Particularly if used to detract from these things: "Wow, Susie is smart, but damn is she ugly!"

POINT 2: Of course. How is that fair?

[kegels]

You really should do some research on this topic:

http://www.miller-mccune.com/health/obesity-aging-cause-ballooning-health-care-costs-31879/


It's a good argument that you present here. But like many other issues that weren't a concern decades ago (gun control for instance), the increasing poor health of our countrymen/women (as a result of poor diet), is something that must be reevaluated, whether it's perceived as a strawman argument or not.

I live in Hawaii, and we purchase our own health insurance because we're self-employed. However, each year our premiums rise between 15-23% (yes, you read that right). The reason being, we have an obesity epidemic here, which in turn means a higher population of residents that are diabetic, on their way to becoming diabetic, or on their way having dietary/weight strokes, heart disease, etc. Even some cancers are now being linked to obesity.

So yes, it's a problem for us all, especially when health insurance premiums rise each year like clockwork as a result of the burden caused by obesity. And to add insult to injury, obesity has not only become tolerated, it's also become a politicized argument. What's also saddening is that obesity is now being celebrated as some sort of 'right of femininity' (as in real women have curves, etc.). Yes, we're gullible indeed. The only people profiting from obesity are those producing the empty-carb/sugar-laden garbage that's loosely being referred to as 'food' (lol), or the big pharmaceutical companies that profit heavily from a society that becomes increasingly sicker/more reliant on medication.

Yes, this needs to be discussed IMO, the same way cigarette smoking has been discussed, and the decorum/laws/taxes surrounding the behavior reevaluated. No man is an island, and what my neighbor does (or doesn't do) has a ripple effect on us all. It is my business, and it should be your business as well, as we're the ones losing. And I say this as a woman that once weighed 215 pounds, and comes from a family of 'big' women.

Okay so just to be clear though, there is no link to the fact that the physical presence of excess fat on your body is what causes heart disease or diabetes, it's the associated lifestyle factors. It bothers the hell out of me when people say "obesity caused diseases" when they're really obesity correlated diseases. It's the same kind of crap science that led us all to believe for decades that saturated fat causes heart problems because of one flawed study when that couldn't be farther from the truth.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2008/08/some-obese-peop.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20092559-10391704.html

From the latter:

"For the study - published in Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism - researchers compared the death rate of 6,000 obese Americans over a 16-year span to the death rate of lean individuals. The researcher found that the mortality rate of fat people who had no or only minor obesity-related health problems (such as high blood pressure or diabetes) was no higher than that of lean people."

A more nuanced look at the way weight is linked to health factors reveals that most everyone can benefit from a few small lifestyle changes even if they never lose a significant amount of weight. You don't get people to make those changes by demonizing them and attempting to interfere in their healthcare access or purchasing power.

As for your disgust that any obesity is presented as a "right to femininity," well honestly I don't know what universe you live in, because I receive basically no positive messages about my body from media and culture, and a total overload of negative ones. For people to say I can't have 1 model out of 1000 that looks a little more like me because it's promoting obesity is misguided at best and at the worst selfish and gross.

[illiniStrive]

Why are you using yourself as a comparison? If you had 100 extra lbs and were a bit older, then you'd be able to submit yourself as a sample.

Why? Because this entire thread has been about fatness and the threat it has on our pocketbooks. I am fat. Hence the example.


Nah man, its better to want a man for money than to want a woman for her looks.

Where, in any post, did I say this. Please do not put words in my mouth and if you can't contribute to the discussion GTFO.

[erinlee01]

Okay so just to be clear though, there is no link to the fact that the physical presence of excess fat on your body is what causes heart disease or diabetes, it's the associated lifestyle factors. It bothers the hell out of me when people say "obesity caused diseases" when they're really obesity correlated diseases. It's the same kind of crap science that led us all to believe for decades that saturated fat causes heart problems because of one flawed study when that couldn't be farther from the truth.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2008/08/some-obese-peop.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20092559-10391704.html

From the latter:

"For the study - published in Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism - researchers compared the death rate of 6,000 obese Americans over a 16-year span to the death rate of lean individuals. The researcher found that the mortality rate of fat people who had no or only minor obesity-related health problems (such as high blood pressure or diabetes) was no higher than that of lean people."

A more nuanced look at the way weight is linked to health factors reveals that most everyone can benefit from a few small lifestyle changes even if they never lose a significant amount of weight. You don't get people to make those changes by demonizing them and attempting to interfere in their healthcare access or purchasing power.

Those articles do nothing to negate the argument. Of course being obese doesn't automatically mean that you are unhealthy. Just like being lean doesn't mean you're automatically healthy. But statistics are based on a population as a whole. And insurance is based on statistics.

Also, you're quoting something about mortality. Mortality has little to do with health care costs. As the article I quoted states, obese people are living longer but incur a higher cost of healthcare cost. You can't ignore that fact.

And I have no idea what you're referring to in your last statement. I've not seen anyone do either in this thread.

[seanb1979]

Why? Because this entire thread has been about fatness and the threat it has on our pocketbooks. I am fat. Hence the example.



Where, in any post, did I say this. Please do not put words in my mouth and if you can't contribute to the discussion GTFO.

Where, in any post, did I say these were your words? Please do not put words in my mouth and if you can't contribute to the discussion GTFO.

It's simply a sentiment shared by many women. Women don't experience it as much, but trust me, guys on the dating scene know exactly what I'm talking about.

[illiniStrive]

It's simply a sentiment shared by many women. Women don't experience it as much, but trust me, guys on the dating scene know exactly what I'm talking about.

So two wrongs make a right?

Riiiiiight.

[erinlee01]

Why? Because this entire thread has been about fatness and the threat it has on our pocketbooks. I am fat. Hence the example.



Where, in any post, did I say this. Please do not put words in my mouth and if you can't contribute to the discussion GTFO.

You are taking this way too personally. Most of the discussion is around obesity. You aren't fat, let alone obese. Slightly overweight, perhaps, but that is not the same thing as fat. Statistically speaking, I fall further into the overweight category than you do and I certainly do not consider myself fat.

[kegels]

Those articles do nothing to negate the argument. Of course being obese doesn't automatically mean that you are unhealthy. Just like being lean doesn't mean you're automatically healthy. But statistics are based on a population as a whole. And insurance is based on statistics.

Also, you're quoting something about mortality. Mortality has little to do with health care costs. As the article I quoted states, obese people are living longer but incur a higher cost of healthcare cost. You can't ignore that fact.

And I have no idea what you're referring to in your last statement. I've not seen anyone do either in this thread.

I haven't seen anyone suggest any solution to the "obesity epidemic" that doesn't involve punishing them by imposing a financial externality or chastising them like children instead of tax-paying adults. Feel free to correct me with a suggestion as to what should be done about it that isn't torn right out of the typical rhetoric on why fat people are a disgusting burden on society.

[seanb1979]

You are taking this way too personally. Most of the discussion is around obesity. You aren't fat, let alone obese. Slightly overweight, perhaps, but that is not the same thing as fat. Statistically speaking, I fall further into the overweight category than you do and I certainly do not consider myself fat.

Her and coffeecanslayer would probably get along lol. OH NOES the world thinks we are fat and hates us!

[illiniStrive]

Her and coffeecanslayer would probably get along lol. OH NOES the world thinks we are fat and hates us!

go on...

your words are so enthralling

[latebloomingmom]

So two wrongs make a right?

Riiiiiight. listen to me hon...as an older and much heavier then you mom..ok?
This concept of physical beauty is not a new one ..yes?
I dont set the standards of what men ( or women) find attractive and where they draw that line...yes?
some men find heavier females very attractive..some dont.
the fashion industry likes the tall and willowy ones but we also have plus size models
and let us not forget..Marilyn Monroe..size 12
what we think of as ideal beauty tends to change with the times
There is a difference between being a little bit overweight and morbidly obese
I dont think anyone is personally attacking you here and if they are you point em out cause I can probably kick their b*tt.
The world has not changed so much since I was 20 . not this part of it anyhow
Now, not all women look for a man and judge him according to what he can provide
But...yes, some do this. When I was in college it was called a "MRS" degree
Not everyone dates someone based soley on their looks..personality may be a part of it, sense of humor.
However, I would not underestimate the importance of being physically attracted to your mate. You do gotta actually spend a substantial amount of time in bed with em.

[paulett]

Okay so just to be clear though, there is no link to the fact that the physical presence of excess fat on your body is what causes heart disease or diabetes, it's the associated lifestyle factors. It bothers the hell out of me when people say "obesity caused diseases" when they're really obesity correlated diseases. It's the same kind of crap science that led us all to believe for decades that saturated fat causes heart problems because of one flawed study when that couldn't be farther from the truth.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2008/08/some-obese-peop.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20092559-10391704.html

From the latter:

"For the study - published in Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism - researchers compared the death rate of 6,000 obese Americans over a 16-year span to the death rate of lean individuals. The researcher found that the mortality rate of fat people who had no or only minor obesity-related health problems (such as high blood pressure or diabetes) was no higher than that of lean people."

A more nuanced look at the way weight is linked to health factors reveals that most everyone can benefit from a few small lifestyle changes even if they never lose a significant amount of weight. You don't get people to make those changes by demonizing them and attempting to interfere in their healthcare access or purchasing power.

As for your disgust that any obesity is presented as a "right to femininity," well honestly I don't know what universe you live in, because I receive basically no positive messages about my body from media and culture, and a total overload of negative ones. For people to say I can't have 1 model out of 1000 that looks a little more like me because it's promoting obesity is misguided at best and at the worst selfish and gross.

Not sure what difference it makes as to whether a disease is caused or correlated with obesity. The fact of the matter is that that type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome (which are both linked to stroke and heart attack due to insulin resistance) can be PREVENTED and REVERSED through changes in diet, exercise and weight loss.

The sample sizes and research methodology used in the above studies are equivalent to what you call junk science. I'm surprised you linked them considering how weakly designed they were. I guess they are only junk science if they don't support your opinion.

That being said, I won't deny that there are plenty of skinny people who don't eat right and exercise who will probably end up with some form of heart disease/stroke as a result. That is why I think we should celebrate being healthy overall rather than celebrating a body type. Women should strive to be strong!

[themyth2009]

I dont think anyone is personally attacking you here and if they are you point em out cause I can probably kick their b*tt.


I am. I know you want a piece of me anyway so bring it. ;)

[erinlee01]

I haven't seen anyone suggest any solution to the "obesity epidemic" that doesn't involve punishing them by imposing a financial externality or chastising them like children instead of tax-paying adults. Feel free to correct me with a suggestion as to what should be done about it that isn't torn right out of the typical rhetoric on why fat people are a disgusting burden on society.

In this thread? You must be reading something different than I am.

Perhaps a little chastising will spur people to take control of their situation.

Just curious, did you object to increased taxes on cigarettes this vigorously? Or the laws that made it so smokers can't be restaurants, malls or other public places?

[illiniStrive]

listen to me hon...as an older and much heavier then you mom..ok?
This concept of physical beauty is not a new one ..yes?
I dont set the standards of what men ( or women) find attractive and where they draw that line...yes?
some men find heavier females very attractive..some dont.
the fashion industry likes the tall and willowy ones but we also have plus size models
and let us not forget..Marilyn Monroe..size 12
what we think of as ideal beauty tends to change with the times
There is a difference between being a little bit overweight and morbidly obese
I dont think anyone is personally attacking you here and if they are you point em out cause I can probably kick their b*tt.
The world has not changed so much since I was 20 . not this part of it anyhow
Now, not all women look for a man and judge him according to what he can provide
But...yes, some do this. When I was in college it was called a "MRS" degree
Not everyone dates someone based soley on their looks..personality may be a part of it, sense of humor.
However, I would not underestimate the importance of being physically attracted to your mate. You do gotta actually spend a substantial amount of time in bed with em.

As much as I sound like some liberal hippie college student changing the world one thread at time... I'm not. I am realist. I know all of these things. I never said attraction was unnatural or bad. It's biology, it's human to be physically attracted to someone. I GET that. But:

- I see no problem with pointing out flaws in the system and ideological logic we all take for granted.
- The stereotypes I speak of are ones we all participate in, it's not just a males against women or women against men. Men do judge other men based on money and success. It's not something limited to the dating pool and finding a mate.
- Due to size inflation Marilyn Monroe would be what today qualifies as a size 4-6.
- My boyfriend lifts and you better believe I touch his biceps and quads and back (sorry tmi) ALL THE TIME. Physical attraction = I get it ;)

The support is totally appreciated, and I get where you're coming from but this is more than me feeling slighted and holding some sort of grudge from a stupid thread.

[kegels]

In this thread? You must be reading something different than I am.

Perhaps a little chastising will spur people to take control of their situation.

Just curious, did you object to increased taxes on cigarettes this vigorously? Or the laws that made it so smokers can't be restaurants, malls or other public places?

Chastising doesn't "spur people to take control," it just makes them resent whoever thinks they're far up enough on their high horse to do it.

Yeah, I don't believe in nanny-state policies and I don't even smoke. People quit when they personally feel they need to quit, not because someone made a law that makes it expensive or inconvenient for them to smoke.


That is why I think we should celebrate being healthy overall rather than celebrating a body type. Women should strive to be strong!

I don't think I'm not strong because I'm fat. I'll think I'm beautiful if I want to, and I'm allowed to like my body type and celebrate it if I please even if I never lose another pound. I don't need your or anyone else's permission.

[latebloomingmom]

As much as I sound like some liberal hippie college student changing the world one thread at time... I'm not. I am realist. I know all of these things. I never said attraction was unnatural or bad. It's biology, it's human to be physically attracted to someone. I GET that. But:

- I see no problem with pointing out flaws in the system and ideological logic we all take for granted.
- The stereotypes I speak of are ones we all participate in, it's not just a males against women or women against men. Men do judge other men based on money and success. It's not something limited to the dating pool and finding a mate.
- Due to size inflation Marilyn Monroe would be what today qualifies as a size 4-6.
- My boyfriend lifts and you better believe I touch his biceps and quads and back (sorry tmi) ALL THE TIME. Physical attraction = I get it ;)

The support is totally appreciated, and I get where you're coming from but this is more than me feeling slighted and holding some sort of grudge from a stupid thread. i gotcha babe! go get em!

[latebloomingmom]

I am. I know you want a piece of me anyway so bring it. ;)Mythie...with you ..I'd want more than a piece of you...
maneater: someone that eats human flesh, a cannibal.

[themyth2009]

I don't think I'm not strong because I'm fat. I'll think I'm beautiful if I want to, and I'm allowed to like my body type and celebrate it if I please even if I never lose another pound. I don't need your or anyone else's permission.

You look pretty healthy to be honest. Also the strongest guys I know are all fat. The also have a ton of muscle.


Mythie...with you ..I'd want more than a piece of you...
maneater: someone that eats human flesh, a cannibal.

I dont know if I should be happy or afraid.

[latebloomingmom]

I dont know if I should be happy or afraid. There is something seriously wrong with you...now I dont know whether to be mad or amused...

[themyth2009]

There is something seriously wrong with you..

Duh.....

[latebloomingmom]

Duh..... that's uhhh.. articulate, ...concise response..did you recently walk into a wall?

[paulett]

I don't think I'm not strong because I'm fat. I'll think I'm beautiful if I want to, and I'm allowed to like my body type and celebrate it if I please even if I never lose another pound. I don't need your or anyone else's permission.

I meant strong metaphorically. But physcially is worth celebrating too.

[themyth2009]

that's uhhh.. articulate, ...concise response..did you recently walk into a wall?

Duh...as in you are right. Shakes head and runs into a wall instead of walking this time.

[latebloomingmom]

Duh...as in you are right. Shakes head and runs into a wall instead of walking this time.see...here's what I think really happened..your kids took you to the house a mirrors again didn't they? For God sake man...couldnt you stop admiring your own beauty for two seconds? but noooo just kept right on walking didnt ya? right into the wall. sigh! Is this an ongoing problem for you? Is this why you have no head in your avi?

[themyth2009]

see...here's what I think really happened..your kids took you to the house a mirrors again didn't they? For God sake man...couldnt you stop admiring your own beauty for two seconds? but noooo just kept right on walking didnt ya? right into the wall. sigh! Is this an ongoing problem for you? Is this why you have no head in your avi?

I am in Mexico so be pretty hard for them to do so. Plus I would be using the mirrors to admire the hot ladies not myself. What are you talking about I see a head in my avi. ;)

[Ameinseto]

Old people can't help getting old. Obese people can change being oveweight and thus reduce their risk of illness that are related to obesity. BIG DIFFERENCE.

This. (You are awesome, btw. I pretty much love everything you've said thus far.)

How in the world is it fair that we're now comparing being old to being obese? I'm sorry, but this is exactly what I was talking about three pages ago with the definition of discrimination. Judging people based on something they can't change is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same as judging someone based on a life choice.

And as for the girl saying that she isn't raising health costs, take a look at your age first. The human body can do amazing things. People were living past your age back when they were still eating rotted meat and sipping out of lead cups. Someone who continues that lifestyle and keeps into their 50s/60s/70s with a myriad of health problems? There's your statistic. The fact that modern health are can keep someone alive despite their bad habits doesn't mean their lifestyle isn't killing them.

EDIT: I just read a little more and realized that we're now talking about cannibals and mirrored houses? You guys are starting to worry me....


;)

[aneas]

EDIT: I just read a little more and realized that we're now talking about cannibals and mirrored houses? You guys are starting to worry me....


;)

I think Late has gone over the deep end and that Myth guy is funny, smart, charming, and a sexy beast....;)

[Ameinseto]

I think Late has gone over the deep end and that Myth guy is funny, smart, charming, and a sexy beast....;)

Gee, it's so great when a guest person compliments someone they have no affiliation with.

[ExclusiveStarr]

I think Late has gone over the deep end and that Myth guy is funny, smart, charming, and a sexy beast....;)

Myth is charming? Not sure if srs. :confused:

[SerpentHearted]

i'm resisting the temptation to ask "so, if you go to the dentist and he tells you you have some tooth decay... do you consider that a personal insult too?"

because DAMN. All I said was "unhealthy weight range, probably 10 - 20kg overweight" and you'd think I went on some horrible misc style rant. "Oh I wonder how obses you think I am then?" and such comments too. "over weight" or "obese" is a medical diagnosis, not a subjective opinion. Ironic a chick who added me on fb to ask training + weight loss advice is now posting this crap + comments like "i like my body I'm proud to be the way I am"

[latebloomingmom]

I am in Mexico so be pretty hard for them to do so. Plus I would be using the mirrors to admire the hot ladies not myself. What are you talking about I see a head in my avi. ;) Ha...nice quick change on the avi...smart*ss
ok so no house of mirrors...why you in Mexico? You tick all the women in the US off?????? :}
BYW: update your photos they getting old

[Austere]

Fat dudes are fine. Fat chicks offend me.

You can call it sexism, but I call it biology.

[MalditoVeneno]

Fat dudes are fine. Fat chicks offend me.

You can call it sexism, but I call it biology.

Fat dudes are fine!? As in they look good? You on that phaggy time

[themyth2009]

Gee, it's so great when a guest person compliments someone they have no affiliation with.

No it is my old user name a mod tried to help me get it restored. So did the admin. Somehow they could not fix it.

I was clowning around of course. I mean even I know what I said was only 99 percent true. ;)

[themyth2009]

Myth is charming? Not sure if srs. :confused:

I thought smart was a bit of a reach to.

[latebloomingmom]

Wtf??

[themyth2009]

Wtf??

I left board in 2009 and since I was a member since 2003 fifty told me he would not delete my account just in case I came back. But they also deleted all my old posts per my request. Demike helped me to try to get it restored but for some reason it works but not like its is supposed to. I show up as a guest, I can't be negged and worst thing is I can't have an avi.

[latebloomingmom]

I left board in 2009 and since I was a member since 2003 fifty told me he would not delete my account just in case I came back. But they also deleted all my old posts per my request. Demike helped me to try to get it restored but for some reason it works but not like its is supposed to. I show up as a guest, I can't be negged and worst thing is I can't have an avi.which one is you???aneas? let me get this straight now...you logged in under an old account under another name and posted THAT post?
the one that says you think I went over the deep end......

[themyth2009]

which one is you???aneas? let me get this straight now...you logged in under an old account under another name and posted THAT post?
the one that says you think I went over the deep end......

Correct.

[latebloomingmom]

Correct.well ain't that just peachy...that was not very nice.

[moonfarious]

http://i.imgur.com/To4Lt.jpg

[elaina08]

The odd thing about this is this women isn't like, crazy huge. And if I'm not mistaken ... I think she just had a few babies.

[elaina08]

Fat dudes are fine. Fat chicks offend me.

You can call it sexism, but I call it biology.

Call me crazy but isn't it the other way around buddy? In your world is it the men who have the body to support a baby?

[themyth2009]

well ain't that just peachy...that was not very nice.

I have done it in jest several times. There are plenty of people posting in this thread that know that Aneas is my old screen name.

[latebloomingmom]

I have done it in jest several times. There are plenty of people posting in this thread that know that Aneas is my old screen name.must just be me then feeling left out of the loop and feeling like an idiot then.

[SerpentHearted]

must just be me then feeling left out of the f*ckin loop and feeling like a dumb*ss then.

please use correct forum terminology aka "strong unaware".

:)

[latebloomingmom]

ya know...if I say something that ticks you off or offends you ...next time just say so. why was it necessary to do so under a different name? you gonna insult me then just do it. I'd like to know who it is I am dealing with.

[latebloomingmom]

let me know when you got a response to this one.

[themyth2009]

ya know...if I say something that ticks you off or offends you ...next time just say so. why was it necessary to do so under a different name? you gonna insult me then just do it. I'd like to know who it is I am dealing with.

You have not said a single thing that has offended me or ticked me off. It was all done it jest. Sorry my comments offended you.

I actually enjoy being made fun of. I think if you cant laugh at yourself you should not laugh at others.

Also I only joke around with people I like. You have gotten really sensitive lately. Is something bugging you?

[latebloomingmom]

You have not said a single thing that has offended me or ticked me off. It was all done it jest. Sorry my comments offended you.

I actually enjoy being made fun of. I think if you cant laugh at yourself you should not laugh at others.

Also I only joke around with people I like. You have gotten really sensitive lately. Is something bugging you? I CAN take a joke if I know who its coming from...I know you like being made fun of or at least I thought you did. I only give you grief over your 'vanity, ego' cause I knew you could take it. I CAN laugh at myself...most of the time....but once in awhile...if I think something is not longer being said in jest but is said to be spiteful or mean then ya..I get defensive.
Mostly I got offended that it was you but yet it was not you.
Is that the only other name you got? maybe you could send me the list for future reference?

[SerpentHearted]

kiss and make up you two.

[Austere]

Fat dudes are fine!? As in they look good? You on that phaggy time

Nah, I meant that I really don't care if a dude is fat.

But fat chicks...ugh

[latebloomingmom]

kiss and make up you two.you craddle robber can just shut up

[whatevergirl]

You have not said a single thing that has offended me or ticked me off. It was all done it jest. Sorry my comments offended you.

I actually enjoy being made fun of. I think if you cant laugh at yourself you should not laugh at others.

Also I only joke around with people I like. You have gotten really sensitive lately. Is something bugging you?

me thinks there's a compliment in there somewhere. :p

latebloomingmom just needs to get to know you; and all will be well...for you are funny, once you get past your ''i'm God's gift to all women'' schtick. lol ;)

I need to find time to read thru this here thread. It's 5 stars. :eek: :)

[SerpentHearted]

you craddle robber can just shut up

that will NEVER happen. :p

[latebloomingmom]

that will NEVER happen. :pdon't you have a date with a candystriper??:)

[SerpentHearted]

i don't know what that is?

[latebloomingmom]

i don't know what that is?sorry..it's a young teenage girl that volunteers at the hospital putting flowers in the rooms and fluffing pillows.

[paulett]

sorry..it's a young teenage girl that volunteers at the hospital putting flowers in the rooms and fluffing pillows.
Emphasis on the "fluffing" part. LMAO

[kurohoshi]

this thread took a crazy turn, lulz

[WatchTheThrone]

Yeah, back to the beach whales!!

[latebloomingmom]

Dont be making fun of my uhh..weekend drama. :)

[WatchTheThrone]

Dont be making fun of my uhh..weekend drama. :)

Should have just duked it out :P

[latebloomingmom]

Should have just duked it out :Poooh I think that might have been a pretty equal match..not sure I would have won.well not 100 percent sure anyhow;)

[WatchTheThrone]

oooh I think that might have been a pretty equal match..not sure I would have won.well not 100 percent sure anyhow;)

Doubting yourself? Uuumm you already lost ;)

[latebloomingmom]

Doubting yourself? Uuumm you already lost ;)Ya that's all I need ......MORE CONFIDENCE???????? :)

[scarboro]

The girl in the pic isn't even obese. And for what it's worth, I find her way more attractive than ChickenTuna for example. (no offense to CT).

I define healthy as having strength, good mobility/flexibilty, and good metabolic conditioning. You can have all 3 w/o being that lean.
Is this srs?

[kurohoshi]

Is this srs?

I already asked if he was srs w/that statement, no response was given.

[illiniStrive]

no response was given.

probably 'cause you're not important enough. Keltron has his standards... :D

[CoffeCanSlayer]

Ouch, this thread is full of insults. Lol. I like it!

Back to the main topic, the woman pictured in the original post is indeed, FAT.

[latebloomingmom]

probably 'cause you're not important enough. Keltron has his standards... :Doffer to make him a sammich but you must call him blessed heavenly beauty first.

[kurohoshi]

offer to make him a sammich but you must call him blessed heavenly beauty first.

ohhhh, I see..so that's the way it works. guy must be important.

[SerpentHearted]

Emphasis on the "fluffing" part. LMAO

i thought i made a joke about fluffers but i can't see it now! Might have hit the wrong button or something.

[themyth2009]

probably 'cause you're not important enough. Keltron has his standards... :D

Keltron has no standards.


Ouch, this thread is full of insults. Lol. I like it!

Back to the main topic, the woman pictured in the original post is indeed, FAT.

Right up your alley...;)


me thinks there's a compliment in there somewhere. :p

latebloomingmom just needs to get to know you; and all will be well...for you are funny, once you get past your ''i'm God's gift to all women'' schtick. lol ;)

I need to find time to read thru this here thread. It's 5 stars. :eek: :)

lolz crap I am not God gift to women....what a bummer.

[latebloomingmom]

ya know if you are gonna go and quote everyone else on this page you missed Scarboro, Kurohoshi and Serpenthearted...oh no's they probably feel left out...

[CoffeCanSlayer]

Right up your alley...;)

.

The fat part or the insulting part?

You have definitely morphed into a condescending dick. ;)

[Austere]

Call me crazy but isn't it the other way around buddy? In your world is it the men who have the body to support a baby?

Ok you are cray. :)

Being obese completely torpedoes a woman's attractiveness. While it hurts a man, the effect is simply not comparable.

[themyth2009]

The fat part or the insulting part?

You have definitely morphed into a condescending dick. ;)

Both brother :)

What you mean morphed I have been on of those for years.

[CoffeCanSlayer]

Both brother :)

What you mean morphed I have been on of those for years.

Yeah noticed. It's alright, someone will whoop your ass sooner or later and you won't act like that anymore :)

[themyth2009]

Yeah noticed. It's alright, someone will whoop your ass sooner or later and you won't act like that anymore :)

Believe it or not last 2 years been a living hell. Had plenty of helpings of good old fashion humble pie. You know win some lose some.

[CoffeCanSlayer]

Believe it or not last 2 years been a living hell. Had plenty of helpings of good old fashion humble pie. You know win some lose some.

Me too, you fuarking shorter lean guys I cannot catch. Sucks man :(

[latebloomingmom]

Believe it or not last 2 years been a living hell. Had plenty of helpings of good old fashion humble pie. You know win some lose some.Myth...you are a strange contradiction in character...kinda hard to figure out.

[themyth2009]

Me too, you fuarking shorter lean guys I cannot catch. Sucks man :(

You cant teach height...would you believe in Mexico I feel like a giant. I might move. lolz


Myth...you are a strange contradiction in character...kinda hard to figure out.

What ever do you mean?

[latebloomingmom]

What ever do you mean?sometimes...you come across as an egotistical know-it all jack *ss.....and sometimes...you don't.

[themyth2009]

sometimes...you come across as an egotistical know-it all jack *ss.....and sometimes...you don't.

Sometimes you feel like a nut....sometimes you don't.

[latebloomingmom]

Sometimes you feel like a nut....sometimes you don't. you're a dork:)

[whatevergirl]

you're a dork:)

aw. i feel the love in here now. :D

Nice to see you two made up. ;)

[paulett]

Ok you are cray. :)

Being obese completely torpedoes a woman's attractiveness. While it hurts a man, the effect is simply not comparable.

I beg to differ. I don't find obese men attractive in the slightest.

[paulett]

Myth...you are a strange contradiction in character...kinda hard to figure out.

Isn't that how myths work?

[norinicole]

The odd thing about this is this women isn't like, crazy huge. And if I'm not mistaken ... I think she just had a few babies.

Although some women may struggle with weight gain when pregnant, having a baby is no excuse to be fat.

There are so many members on here with MULTIPLE children who look absolutely amazing. One of the girls in my city competed at the national level with a 3 month old baby. It bugs me so much when women think having a child is an excuse not to take care of their bodies (there are obviously exceptions in some extreme cases).

[Miranda]

Although some women may struggle with weight gain when pregnant, having a baby is no excuse to be fat.

There are so many members on here with MULTIPLE children who look absolutely amazing. One of the girls in my city competed at the national level with a 3 month old baby. It bugs me so much when women think having a child is an excuse not to take care of their bodies (there are obviously exceptions in some extreme cases).

i understand what you're saying, but i find this type extremist either/or thinking quite polarising.

a woman either stays fat forever after a baby or she competes after having given birth a few months before? neither extreme is healthy.

it's not different from average women looking at celebrity mums (who have lots of extra hands/help at their disposal) who're size 0 or what have you literally weeks after they have a baby feeling bad about themselves because they don't match up. just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

pregnancy affects everyone in a different way and it is pretty much impossible to predict what will happen to a woman's body. plus, i'd think new mothers would have other things on their mind for a few months than dieting.

[elaina08]

Although some women may struggle with weight gain when pregnant, having a baby is no excuse to be fat.

There are so many members on here with MULTIPLE children who look absolutely amazing. One of the girls in my city competed at the national level with a 3 month old baby. It bugs me so much when women think having a child is an excuse not to take care of their bodies (there are obviously exceptions in some extreme cases).

She had quadruplets. I'm not saying it's an excuse to be overweight and unhealthy .. but it is a reason. And I totally agree with above post.

A friend of mine, tiny as heck, didn't gain a single thing (lost it all after giving birth). Another friend is still struggling to get her pre-prego body after a year. And trust .. she is working hard. I see her.

So as a women, why would you jump on that bandwagon ? It's a very narrow-minded thing to say. Have you had kids? The women on here who have had kids and look great worked for it. I'm sure most if not all, didn't pop out a baby and run up on stage to compete a few months later. That's just not realistic for the majority.

[erinlee01]

i understand what you're saying, but i find this type extremist either/or thinking quite polarising.

a woman either stays fat forever after a baby or she competes after having given birth a few months before? neither extreme is healthy.

it's not different from average women looking at celebrity mums (who have lots of extra hands/help at their disposal) who're size 0 or what have you literally weeks after they have a baby feeling bad about themselves because they don't match up. just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

pregnancy affects everyone in a different way and it is pretty much impossible to predict what will happen to a woman's body. plus, i'd think new mothers would have other things on their mind for a few months than dieting.


She had quadruplets. I'm not saying it's an excuse to be overweight and unhealthy .. but it is a reason. And I totally agree with above post.

A friend of mine, tiny as heck, didn't gain a single thing (lost it all after giving birth). Another friend is still struggling to get her pre-prego body after a year. And trust .. she is working hard. I see her.

So as a women, why would you jump on that bandwagon ? It's a very narrow-minded thing to say. Have you had kids? The women on here who have had kids and look great worked for it. I'm sure most if not all, didn't pop out a baby and run up on stage to compete a few months later. That's just not realistic for the majority.

I'm fairly certain Nori wasn't using that example to say that all women should look great months after having a baby. But we all know that some women have 3 year olds and still use the baby weight excuse. It is just that, an excuse. Having a baby does not predestine you to be fat. If you eat right and get some exercise, you can shed the fat.

And yes, Nori does have a child. And she looks great. And she works hard for it. That was the point. If you work at it, you can look great after having kids. Or, you can sit around and do nothing and use having a kid as an excuse.

And as for the person who is struggling to lose baby weight after a year, either they aren't working that hard now, or they didn't work hard during pregnancy. Acceptable weight gain during pregnancy is 25 - 35 lbs. Of that, only about 10 lbs is fat.

Fact is, yes, it may be a reason that someone is fat. But it's just an excuse, just the same as any other.

Yes, I have kids. Yes, I was fat afterwards. And yes, I was using that as an excuse. But I am honest enough to know that it was an excuse to be lazy and undisciplined.

[MuscleSouth]

Gotcha

Honestly, you're throwing in congenital diseases and airborne illnesses as an argument? Give me a break. If you're going to put forth an argument, at least make sure you're comparing apples with apples.

I don't condone smoking, unprotected sex, or tanning (I have no idea what you mean by risky behaviors, but I am ignoring it as the effect on healthcare is more than likely negligible in comparison to the others), so why would I condone obesity? Because someone like you thinks it's the politically correct thing to do?

Have you looked at how much some of these cost in healthcare?

Obesity - $147 billion per year
Smoking - $200 billion per year
STDs - $17 billion per year

Those costs are more than the overall costs for cancer ($263 billion), and I am guessing that a good chunk of that also falls under the smoking category making the gap wider.

And they are ALL controllable costs by controlling your behavior.

But, you're right. Live and let live. We'll just pay for it later.


Edit - as for telling people not to smoke, I'm not sure where it is where you live, but smoking is VERY socially unacceptable here. There are tons of anti-smoking billboards, TV ads, etc. You haven't been able to smoke in a mall since I was in grade school, and it's been years since you can smoke in a bar here.

[erinlee01]

Gotcha

Good! I'm tired of having that argument EVERY TIME!

[norinicole]

i understand what you're saying, but i find this type extremist either/or thinking quite polarising.

a woman either stays fat forever after a baby or she competes after having given birth a few months before? neither extreme is healthy.

it's not different from average women looking at celebrity mums (who have lots of extra hands/help at their disposal) who're size 0 or what have you literally weeks after they have a baby feeling bad about themselves because they don't match up. just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

pregnancy affects everyone in a different way and it is pretty much impossible to predict what will happen to a woman's body. plus, i'd think new mothers would have other things on their mind for a few months than dieting.

My post wasn't meant to say that it's all or nothing. Just that having a baby is no excuse to be unhealthily overweight.


She had quadruplets. I'm not saying it's an excuse to be overweight and unhealthy .. but it is a reason. And I totally agree with above post.

A friend of mine, tiny as heck, didn't gain a single thing (lost it all after giving birth). Another friend is still struggling to get her pre-prego body after a year. And trust .. she is working hard. I see her.

So as a women, why would you jump on that bandwagon ? It's a very narrow-minded thing to say. Have you had kids? The women on here who have had kids and look great worked for it. I'm sure most if not all, didn't pop out a baby and run up on stage to compete a few months later. That's just not realistic for the majority.

Yeah, I do. And there are many women who frequent my gym who are moms and work hard.


I'm fairly certain Nori wasn't using that example to say that all women should look great months after having a baby. But we all know that some women have 3 year olds and still use the baby weight excuse. It is just that, an excuse. Having a baby does not predestine you to be fat. If you eat right and get some exercise, you can shed the fat.

And yes, Nori does have a child. And she looks great. And she works hard for it. That was the point. If you work at it, you can look great after having kids. Or, you can sit around and do nothing and use having a kid as an excuse.

And as for the person who is struggling to lose baby weight after a year, either they aren't working that hard now, or they didn't work hard during pregnancy. Acceptable weight gain during pregnancy is 25 - 35 lbs. Of that, only about 10 lbs is fat.

Fact is, yes, it may be a reason that someone is fat. But it's just an excuse, just the same as any other.

Yes, I have kids. Yes, I was fat afterwards. And yes, I was using that as an excuse. But I am honest enough to know that it was an excuse to be lazy and undisciplined.

Thank you Erin. My sentiments exactly.

I forgot that around here there has to be some disclaimer in every post since everyone loves getting their panties in a knot.

[CoffeCanSlayer]

Or you could just stop being a nosey beotch and keep it to yourself?????/ OMG that makes too much sense.

Don't worry about who's fat and who isn't. And if I am correct, you've been a bean pole your whole life. Easy to talk when that's how it's been for ya.

[latebloomingmom]

well well lookie who has popped in to say hi...;)

[norinicole]

Or you could just stop being a nosey beotch and keep it to yourself?????/ OMG that makes too much sense.

Don't worry about who's fat and who isn't. And if I am correct, you've been a bean pole your whole life. Easy to talk when that's how it's been for ya.

:rolleyes:

[Miranda]

I'm fairly certain Nori wasn't using that example to say that all women should look great months after having a baby. But we all know that some women have 3 year olds and still use the baby weight excuse.

i know. what i meant with my post was why use such polarising examples to make a point?

people tend to adhere to extremes, which are, by definition, extreme and quite impossible to attain for the average person with average dedication. there's nothing wrong with that.

average people tend to achieve average, the 'good enough'. and 'good enough', in my book, is neither fat with a three-year-old, nor on competition stage with a three-month-old ;)

[erinlee01]

i know. what i meant with my post was why use such polarising examples to make a point?

people tend to adhere to extremes, which are, by definition, extreme and quite impossible to attain for the average person with average dedication. there's nothing wrong with that.

average people tend to achieve average, the 'good enough'. and 'good enough', in my book, is neither fat with a three-year-old, nor on competition stage with a three-month-old ;)

I agree with that. It's the same as saying it's OK to promote heavy people because models are too thin. Both are unhealthy.

Unfortunately, the "average" person is now overweight and heading into unhealthy territory. Not sure people should be aiming for "average" in that case.

[MMAnLift]

Lol'd at anyone thinking that girl isn't obese
And it has nothing to do with people caring if someone is hurting their health by being fat, fatties are just digusting to have to look at

[kurohoshi]

Lol'd at anyone thinking that girl isn't obese
And it has nothing to do with people caring if someone is hurting their health by being fat, fatties are just digusting to have to look at

just lol'ed IRL