OBAMA forces crummy MINORITIES to the front of the line for the color of their skin..

[JPSF4LIFE]

In yet another expansion of government through Executive Order, the Obama administration has created an Office of Diversity and Inclusion to boost minority participation in the federal work force.

Judicial Watch reported on this new government office Wednesday, and stated that the Obama administration’s goal is to:

“Eliminate demographic group imbalances in targeted occupations and improve workforce diversity. To attain this, special initiatives have been created targeting specific groups, including Hispanics, African Americans, American Indians, women and gays and lesbians.”

DIVISIVE PRESIDENT IS DIVISIVE.


Below is an excerpt that summarizes its mission:

“By this order, I am directing executive departments and agencies to develop and implement a more comprehensive, integrated, and strategic focus on diversity and inclusion as a key component of their human resources strategies.”

This new bureaucratic arm of the White House will apparently work in addition to the already staffed Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which investigates and enforces federal discrimination laws.



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obama-executive-order-creates-office-of-diversity-and-inclusion/

[JPSF4LIFE]

Here is the entire PERVERSITY executive order:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/08/18/executive-order-establishing-coordinated-government-wide-initiative-prom

[StarFox]

Lol first thing I thought of when I read the title was South Park..."Operation Get Behind the Darkies"

[JPSF4LIFE]

Lol first thing I thought of when I read the title was South Park..."Operation Get Behind the Darkies"

Location: Brown Town

[JB05]

Drop charges against black panthers.. check

Favor minorities in federal hiring.. check (while ignoring that whites are minorities in some states)

Post-racial president indeed

[Sodao]

Drop charges against black panthers.. check

Favor minorities in federal hiring.. check (while ignoring that whites are minorities in some states)

Post-racial president indeedbush dropped the charges.

[JPSF4LIFE]

bush dropped the charges.

(shakes head)

[Bushmaster]

“By this order, I am directing executive departments and agencies to develop and implement a more comprehensive, integrated, and strategic focus on diversity and inclusion as a key component of their human resources strategies.”


Strong uniter not a divider lol..

[Sodao]

(shakes head)more specifically, the DOJ while bush was in office.

[jmonty]

(while ignoring that whites are minorities in some states)


which states?

[otisthebat]

which states?

texas.

at least in my county, hispanics are the majority.

[EllaMenthe]

People wonder why nothing gets done in DC? Hire people for their actual ability to do the job versus their skin color and see an improvement. Obama has obviously never set foot in an average federal office in Washington DC. I was an intern at a DoD agency while I was in college and there is absolutely NO problem with the number of minorities in federal positions as they already have an advantage in the point system hiring process (which women also benefit from). Federal jobs are the biggest scam and seem to be a social experiment for politically correct government officials.

The best part about a federal job though is that it is an extremely uphill battle for them to fire you after you pass 2-3 years so usually, you will have employees at the 8-10 year mark doing absolutely nothing (as in 3 hour "working lunches" on your dime) and yet consistently getting paid (with your tax money) without fear of serious reprisal for their lack of work ethic. You would think the government would want to hire people based off their actual qualifications if they are going to be stuck with them indefinitely as well as a pension.

[Footballguru]

To attain this, special initiatives have been created targeting specific groups, including Hispanics (15.5%), African Americans (12.6%), American Indians (1%), women (51%) and gays and lesbians.(2%)”



lol. What is that? 80% of the population? It would be one thing to help a specific minority group who is actually discriminated against for immoral reasons, but to help the vast majority of the US because they are supposedly being discriminated? How the fk can a huge majority like this be discriminated against when we live in nearly a direct democracy at this point (and not the representative republic set forth in the Const.)?

[leafs43]

I can't be certain as I only heard it and have no citation, but minorities are already well represented in government positions.

[pachovia]

I can't be certain as I only heard it and have no citation, but minorities are already well represented in government positions.

no citation needed, just look around most government offices.

[JPSF4LIFE]

I haven't had a white mail man in years............................................. .......

[Triumphator]

Talk about reverse racism, whata fukin phoney.
You'd have to be absolutely ignorant to not see thru this guys crap.

[brighamw]

I haven't had a white mail man in years............................................. .......

So, you prefer the BBC?

:D

[Tekkendo]

People wonder why nothing gets done in DC? Hire people for their actual ability to do the job versus their skin color and see an improvement. Obama has obviously never set foot in an average federal office in Washington DC. I was an intern at a DoD agency while I was in college and there is absolutely NO problem with the number of minorities in federal positions as they already have an advantage in the point system hiring process (which women also benefit from). Federal jobs are the biggest scam and seem to be a social experiment for politically correct government officials.

The best part about a federal job though is that it is an extremely uphill battle for them to fire you after you pass 2-3 years so usually, you will have employees at the 8-10 year mark doing absolutely nothing (as in 3 hour "working lunches" on your dime) and yet consistently getting paid (with your tax money) without fear of serious reprisal for their lack of work ethic. You would think the government would want to hire people based off their actual qualifications if they are going to be stuck with them indefinitely as well as a pension.

Yet the libtards are arguing that government bureaucrats are more efficient at allocating resources......

[Rdez]

Hasn't Obama's hiring been less 'diverse' than Bush's ?

[batmanman]

stupid... hes pretty much just saying the whitehouse is racist

[Scottidott]

You know its trendy to hate white males?

[dabbmw2002]

I live just outside DC. Walk into any government building or office and almost all the employees are minorities. If any imbalance exists, its a lack of whites.

[JPSF4LIFE]

So, you prefer the BBC?

:D

Depends on what packages are being delivered.............................wait the fuuck what

[JPSF4LIFE]

stupid... hes pretty much just saying the whitehouse is racist

Who is the "he" in your post?

[PSToolman]

I can't be certain as I only heard it and have no citation, but minorities are already well represented in government positions.


no citation needed, just look around most government offices.

If it's true that Caucasians are under-represented in government offices, then this order should fix that.

[MrMisanthrope]

Instead of being mad about it, whitey, why don't you just get your own job in high places and preferentially higher whites?

[JPSF4LIFE]

Instead of being mad about it, whitey, why don't you just get your own job in high places and preferentially higher whites?

A. I'm not mad.
B. Have you heard of affirmative action and the EEOC

It isn't that easy for people to just hire whomever they like.


Yes, I file a 1099.

[CCAurora]

Let's be reality - ITT, spoiled white kids bitch about things that don't impact them. Just because slavery is gone doesn't mean that its effects in social hierarchy aren't... there are plenty of rich black men, but very few wealthy ones.

[winjones]

Drop charges against black panthers.. check

Favor minorities in federal hiring.. check (while ignoring that whites are minorities in some states)

Post-racial president indeed

Bush dropped the charges... only four states have a "non-white" majority... meanwhile they still hold the VAST majority of federal jobs... even in those states in which whites AREN'T the majority...

I'm a republican... and I don't agree with most of Obama's decisions as president... but you sound like a typical voter from ohio

[winjones]

which states?

Hawaii
California
Texas
New Mexico

[MrMisanthrope]

A. I'm not mad.
B. Have you heard of affirmative action and the EEOC

It isn't that easy for people to just hire whomever they like.


Yes, I file a 1099.

Hey look, a whole staff of one drop mexicans and blacks!

[bearfan34201]

Let's be reality - ITT, spoiled white kids bitch about things that don't impact them. Just because slavery is gone doesn't mean that its effects in social hierarchy aren't... there are plenty of rich black men, but very few wealthy ones.

Here we go.

[Rockchalk0420]

Let's be reality - ITT, spoiled white kids bitch about things that don't impact them. Just because slavery is gone doesn't mean that its effects in social hierarchy aren't... there are plenty of rich black men, but very few wealthy ones.

I'm more concerned with another government bureaucracy. If there is one thing Obama is good at, its growing the government...

[psiconoclast]

White American dude in a multi-cultural family checking in:

The truth that white people don't want to hear: White people in America continue to be discriminatory to people of other ethnicities and non-European/American cultural heritages, and this discrimination goes beyond anything reasonably justifiable as rational or merit based.

The truth that minorities don't want to hear: All too often, people who benefit from preferential placement programs take advantage of their good fortune. There are many reasons, a sense of payback for real and perceived discrimination, a feeling of entitlement and plain old fashioned human laziness are all at play.

The truth that conservatives don't want to hear: Eliminating all programs designed to combat discriminatory placement will result in many minorities being passed over for less well qualified members of the majority.

The truth that liberals don't want to hear: Preferential placement programs are, at best, a poor way to combat the discrimination, at least the way they are currently/typically run.

My .02: I'm for preferential placement, especially in government jobs (the government belongs to all of us, and should reflect the citizenry accurately), but I'm opposed to the ludicrously high level of job security that exists. If public sector employees had a more real fear of losing their jobs (as private sector employees do), they would have more motivation to actually work, and, systemically, there would be more motivation to make sure that good people were hired, even as quotas are met. There should also be a more effective positive incentive (financial and rank rewards for the most effective employees), because negative motivation without positive motivation sucks (carrot to go with the stick). Taken together, jobs with slow opportunities for advancement, but high levels of security will attract the laziest people, regardless of where they happen to come from, and will turn otherwise motivated people into lazy people pretty damn quickly.

[otisthebat]

White American dude in a multi-cultural family checking in:

The truth that white people don't want to hear: White people in America continue to be discriminatory to people of other ethnicities and non-European/American cultural heritages, and this discrimination goes beyond anything reasonably justifiable as rational or merit based.

The truth that minorities don't want to hear: All too often, people who benefit from preferential placement programs take advantage of their good fortune. There are many reasons, a sense of payback for real and perceived discrimination, a feeling of entitlement and plain old fashioned human laziness are all at play.

The truth that conservatives don't want to hear: Eliminating all programs designed to combat discriminatory placement will result in many minorities being passed over for less well qualified members of the majority.

The truth that liberals don't want to hear: Preferential placement programs are, at best, a poor way to combat the discrimination, at least the way they are currently/typically run.

My .02: I'm for preferential placement, especially in government jobs (the government belongs to all of us, and should reflect the citizenry accurately), but I'm opposed to the ludicrously high level of job security that exists. If public sector employees had a more real fear of losing their jobs (as private sector employees do), they would have more motivation to actually work, and, systemically, there would be more motivation to make sure that good people were hired, even as quotas are met. There should also be a more effective positive incentive (financial and rank rewards for the most effective employees), because negative motivation without positive motivation sucks (carrot to go with the stick). Taken together, jobs with slow opportunities for advancement, but high levels of security will attract the laziest people, regardless of where they happen to come from, and will turn otherwise motivated people into lazy people pretty damn quickly.

you do realize that hiring someone because of the color of their skin is racist right? therefor you support racism.

[joeybsmooth]

So getting rid of a systems that are discriminatory is racist now .. It is funny how people always claim that black people play the race card.. when this is nothing but playing the race card.

[Bushmaster]

So getting rid of a systems that are discriminatory is racist now ..

What "discriminatory systems" are you talking about?

[psiconoclast]

you do realize that hiring someone because of the color of their skin is racist right? therefor you support racism.

rac·ism   [rey-siz-uhm]

noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Diversity programs fail to meet those criteria. The only one that could be even argued is the second definition (discrimination), but, taken in context of the broader definition, it is clear that the discrimination has be be based on the assumption of racial differences to qualify as racism.

If people are NOT being hired because of the color of their skin, and nothing is done about it (which is what you seem to be arguing for) THAT is racism.

[flairon]

If you are qualified for a job, you should be hired for the job, regardless of your race. If you're not qualified for a job, you shouldn't be hired for a job, regardless of your race.

[PSToolman]

If you are qualified for a job, you should be hired for the job, regardless of your race. If you're not qualified for a job, you shouldn't be hired for a job, regardless of your race.

I don't think this is the issue.

[psiconoclast]

If you are qualified for a job, you should be hired for the job, regardless of your race. If you're not qualified for a job, you shouldn't be hired for a job, regardless of your race.


I don't think this is the issue.

Exactly. The real issue is when there are more qualified applicants than there are positions to fill. Diversity programs, when functioning properly, make sure that the positions are not simply given to members of the majority.

Point based systems, quotas, etc. are all imperfect, and people will always complain that less qualified applicants are chosen over more qualified, but until a totally blind hiring process (merit only) is actually devised, the only options are to allow our society's discriminatory tendencies to influence hiring unchecked, or to employ admittedly imperfect countermeasures.

There are two very different unholy agendas at play in this issue:

1. People who want to end all preferential placement programs, whether knowingly or unknowingly, are supporting a discriminatory agenda.

2. People who refuse to even consider overhauling/amending/updating preferential placement programs to make them work better (in any objective way in which they could work better) are also supporting an agenda, usually political, that has lost sight of the real reason for the program in the first place.

[IVIagic]

I haven't had a white mail man in years............................................. .......

The fact that you even care about the color of your mailman's skin makes you a complete idiot.

[otisthebat]

If people are NOT being hired because of the color of their skin, and nothing is done about it (which is what you seem to be arguing for) THAT is racism.

you do realize hiring someone based on their skin color is racial discrimination against other races right? you are showing preference based on the person's race. racism.

[PSToolman]

you do realize hiring someone based on their skin color is racial discrimination against other races right? you are showing preference based on the person's race. racism.

This is the problem. IMO when choosing between equally qualified candidates, you should pick the one who is a member of an underrepresented group. It's entirely possible this could be someone who is Caucasian. As was stated up thread, government agencies especially should represent the makeup of the general population.

[Jack3d26]

Are we arguing that white people are more qualified to be in these positions? IMO, who the heck cares who gets hired as long as they're doing their jobs. If someone gets lazy on the job later in life, I don't think that has anything to do with the type of race they are, it's the lack of discipline and structure within the agency. And hey, I don't care who the fuk you are, everyone in society is racist. Everyone stereotypes someone at some point in their lives, even if they don't directly do it on purpose.

[psiconoclast]

you do realize hiring someone based on their skin color is racial discrimination against other races right? you are showing preference based on the person's race. racism.

I'm sorry, but no.

American racial bias in general is well documented, so the default state of hiring (like so much else) is racist to begin with.

Applying diversity programs to compensate for this racial bias is NOT racist. It could, arguably, have a racially worse result, if it could be demonstrated that the final results favor a particular race more than is warranted based on the racial distribution in general (numerically), and to a greater degree than the uncorrected racial bias in the first place.

Part of being a rational adult is recognizing that we are, sometimes, incapable of making an unbiased selection. There are a variety of ways that reasonable people correct for this, including asking a neutral party to make certain decisions, or, (as is the case with diversity programs) using standards and guidelines to help offset the tendency for bias.

When a decision is made to surrender some choice (like adopting hiring guidelines) for the express purpose of not being discriminatory, to then equate that decision itself with discrimination is, at best, poorly reasoned and, at worst, highly disingenuous.

[joeybsmooth]

What "discriminatory systems" are you talking about?

I have already showed you studies that back up my statement.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2003/resume.html

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/14/race-criminal-background-and-employment/

[Bushmaster]

I have already showed you studies that back up my statement.


Right.. LyKwaneesha doesn't get as many call backs as Karen, and the guy whose name is all consonants has a harder time than David. So what.

Told you once before that some dumb fuk with a hillbilly sounding name is gonna have it just as bad - only he doesn't have that racial crutch to lean on.

[joeybsmooth]

Right.. LyKwaneesha doesn't get as many call backs as Karen, and the guy whose name is all consonants has a harder time than David. So what.

Told you once before that some dumb fuk with a hillbilly sounding name is gonna have it just as bad - only he doesn't have that racial crutch to lean on.

When you find me a study that shows this to be the case come back . Also add the name study to the other study I showed and it is clear what the case it.

[kratosbrah]

How come Asians aren't on that list?

[Bushmaster]

When you find me a study that shows this to be the case come back . Also add the name study to the other study I showed and it is clear what the case it.

Just because there aren't any studies doesn't mean it's not true. Nobody gives two fux if this or that white person is discriminated against. Let LyKwaneeshia send out a resume and not get a call back though and people shiit their pants over it.

Minorities = teh special though, amiright?

[Tekkendo]

How come Asians aren't on that list?
B/c they stay in school. study hard. Get good jobs. Not waiting for the democrats to buy their votes with false promises. (just my wild arse guess)

[Bushmaster]

How come Asians aren't on that list?

What is "They don't need help" for a thousand, Alex?

[makavelli1988]

If you are qualified for a job, you should be hired for the job, regardless of your race. If you're not qualified for a job, you shouldn't be hired for a job, regardless of your race.

We would all love for this to be true. But in the real world history plays a huge part in affecting societies. History has resulted in conditions in which ethnic minorities, most likely black, will not get the same opportunities to gain the qualifications needed to be 'qualified' for a job as a white competitor. This is why this idealised system, that we would all love to follow, IS discriminatory in the real world.

What don't you people understand?

Just look at the people who always pop up to claim reverse racism whenever affirmative action is discussed. Same people always pop up. Now imagine these people were in a position to judge employees and give them a job (as many of them will be). As you can see from most of them they believe black people simply don't get jobs because their lazy, don't finish school, aren't hard working, hoodrats for the most part etc...This same stereotypes and prejudices will be held when dealing with a black interviewee. It's most likely sub-conscious but it does increase the chance of these people refusing a black employee.

[joeybsmooth]

Just because there aren't any studies doesn't mean it's not true. Nobody gives two fux if this or that white person is discriminated against. Let LyKwaneeshia send out a resume and not get a call back though and people shiit their pants over it.

Minorities = teh special though, amiright?

You are wrong.. as you can see of the crys of racism here .. if people even think white people are facing discrimination they will be talking about it . And also I cam glad to see that not only using name that was not used . The names that were used were Tamika, Aisha, Rasheed and Tyrone. These are not outlandish names . And more over this is not about a black person not getting a job this is about a black person not getting a call back when a white person with the same OR LESS qualifications does .

[PSToolman]

Just because there aren't any studies doesn't mean it's not true. Nobody gives two fux if this or that white person is discriminated against. Let LyKwaneeshia send out a resume and not get a call back though and people shiit their pants over it.

Minorities = teh special though, amiright?

Seriously? This is your argument? We should go by your preconceived notions? Or should I say "prejudiced"?

[RIKTER]

This vid sums it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opxuUj6vFa4

[otisthebat]

This is the problem. IMO when choosing between equally qualified candidates, you should pick the one who is a member of an underrepresented group. It's entirely possible this could be someone who is Caucasian. As was stated up thread, government agencies especially should represent the makeup of the general population.

no one is truly equally qualified. go back as far as you have to and find a reason to hire one over the other. anything but race. someone should not get preference based on skin color, be they white/black/red/orange etc.

[joeybsmooth]

This vid sums it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opxuUj6vFa4


You clip title is a lie, he did not say no way worker . He said NOT ONLY white workers . That is a biggest differences .

[otisthebat]

I'm sorry, but no.

American racial bias in general is well documented, so the default state of hiring (like so much else) is racist to begin with.

Applying diversity programs to compensate for this racial bias is NOT racist. It could, arguably, have a racially worse result, if it could be demonstrated that the final results favor a particular race more than is warranted based on the racial distribution in general (numerically), and to a greater degree than the uncorrected racial bias in the first place.

Part of being a rational adult is recognizing that we are, sometimes, incapable of making an unbiased selection. There are a variety of ways that reasonable people correct for this, including asking a neutral party to make certain decisions, or, (as is the case with diversity programs) using standards and guidelines to help offset the tendency for bias.

When a decision is made to surrender some choice (like adopting hiring guidelines) for the express purpose of not being discriminatory, to then equate that decision itself with discrimination is, at best, poorly reasoned and, at worst, highly disingenuous.

blah blah blah you support racism. you want to give preference based on someone's skin color. that is the basis of your argument. racism.

[Tekkendo]

Meritocracy. No quota. Affirmative action is demeaning. "Look at that guy. He only gets there b/c of the color of his skin". It cheapens the hardwork of minorities who make it on their own..

[joeybsmooth]

Meritocracy. No quota. Affirmative action is demeaning. "Look at that guy. He only gets there b/c of the color of his skin". It cheapens the hardwork of minorities who make it on their own..

Even with Affirmative Action black people are at a disadvantage, it cheapens nothing.

[PenisBrah]

Even with Affirmative Action black people are at a disadvantage, it cheapens nothing.

They are disadvantaged because of their genetics. There is nothing can be done. They simply aren't as smart as whites and asians.

[Tekkendo]

Even with Affirmative Action black people are at a disadvantage, it cheapens nothing.You dont know anything about the issue at all. I specifically included a quote for illustrative purpose, specifically for people like you. And yet.....

[PSToolman]

no one is truly equally qualified. go back as far as you have to and find a reason to hire one over the other. anything but race. someone should not get preference based on skin color, be they white/black/red/orange etc.

Perhaps, but you have to take these things on a case by case basis. Maybe one candidate is more overqualified than another. That doesn't necessarily make him more qualified. As was pointed out up thread, in that case, more often than not the member of the majority stands a better chance of getting a position and this isn't fair either. Furthermore, I've read the EO and my interpretation is that if there is a department that is short on Caucasians, they have to remedy that situation as well.

Personally, I think the US Government has an obligation to our people to have those who work in government offices represent the cultural makeup of the entire population. We can't really consider ourselves an inclusive society otherwise, and we do consider ourselves inclusive though we have a long way to go. Private businesses have no such obligation, though they risk losing business if they are blatantly discriminatory in their hiring practices.

[MathDaddy]

Perhaps, but you have to take these things on a case by case basis. Maybe one candidate is more overqualified than another. That doesn't necessarily make him more qualified. As was pointed out up thread, in that case, more often than not the member of the majority stands a better chance of getting a position and this isn't fair either. Furthermore, I've read the EO and my interpretation is that if there is a department that is short on Caucasians, they have to remedy that situation as well.

Personally, I think the US Government has an obligation to our people to have those who work in government offices represent the cultural makeup of the entire population. We can't really consider ourselves an inclusive society otherwise, and we do consider ourselves inclusive though we have a long way to go. Private businesses have no such obligation, though they risk losing business if they are blatantly discriminatory in their hiring practices.

Government is already lousy enough without hiring people who wouldn't get a job based on merit.

[PSToolman]

Government is already lousy enough without hiring people who wouldn't get a job based on merit.

I don't think there are people suggesting this. Certainly not me.

[Tekkendo]

....
Personally, I think the US Government has an obligation to our people to have those who work in government offices represent the cultural makeup of the entire population. ....

We reject this kind of RACIST social engineering.

[PSToolman]

we reject this kind of racist social engineering.

lol :D

[joeybsmooth]

You dont know anything about the issue at all. I specifically included a quote for illustrative purpose, specifically for people like you. And yet.....

I do not know about the issue , I have backed up my statements in this very post. I don't care what people think , when white people have the advantage as when it comes to getting jobs, who cares about the ones who claim black people who make it do so because of a AA . That is like someone getting a 6 sec. head start in a race complaining that the guy who beat him ad a 2 sec. head start.

[psiconoclast]

blah blah blah you support racism. you want to give preference based on someone's skin color. that is the basis of your argument. racism.

Next time try refuting my actual argument instead of, yet again, laying baseless charges against me.

If white people are chosen over more qualified people of any other ethnicity (because they are white), then, by your own standard, that is racist.

Yes? (You should be nodding your head with me now)

Do white people get preferentially hired over people of other ethnicities? According to all the evidence I have seen (and the articles that joeybsmooth posted, which are the only real citations on the subject in this thread), the answer is yes. If you disagree with this point, you must present evidence to the contrary, otherwise it stands.

So, the conclusion is that hiring, in America, is racist, in favor of whites.

Yes? (You should either be nodding your head with me, or producing excellent evidence to refute the notion of a pro-white racial bias in this country)

So, if avoiding being racist is the goal (which it must be, otherwise you would not be using racism as the singular criticism that you level against me), then something must be done to correct for the racist hiring that is already taking place.

Right? (Unless you are a racist, you should be nodding your head with me)

So. . . The question, then, is what is the best way to combat racism in hiring. (Once again, you should be nodding your head)

I am arguing in favor of diversity programs (hiring to reflect the ethnic percentages of the general population) and, based on your posts, you are arguing for no diversity programs, full stop.

So, to summarize, I am arguing for a system in which public employees have an ethnic distribution that matches the distribution of the population in general, and you are arguing for a system in which white people are disproportionately represented.

Since you are clearly more interested in trolling me than actually bothering to rub two neurons together, I'll walk through the other side of the argument:

Quota hires result in less qualified minority applicants being hired over more qualified white applicants.

Does this happen?

Clearly it does, at least some of the time.

Does it happen more often, though, than white people who are less qualified getting hired over more qualified minority applicants?

That's the real question. If it does, then, marginally, diversity programs would be unintentionally racist. If it does not, then diversity programs are marginally less racist than not having them.

It's my informed opinion that diversity programs result in a net increase in the equitable distribution of jobs.

Are they perfect? No.

Are they better than nothing? Yes.

In conclusion, eliminating diversity programs would make matters worse. Overhauling them, however, is probably a good idea, because any human endeavor can always be updated and improved.

[YUL]

You know its trendy to hate white males? no, it's trendy for them to display their insecurity by whining so much

[Bushmaster]

Even with Affirmative Action black people are at a disadvantage,

Jesus that must really suck ass then... Fukit, I'd cry about discrimination too if I were you.

[Bushmaster]

Seriously? This is your argument? We should go by your preconceived notions? Or should I say "prejudiced"?

Or we coud just go by your preconceived notions and say teh white man be keeping everybody down, wring our hands over it and sing kumba yah.. Meanwhile ignoring the fact that there are minority doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, astronauts, and businessmen.

How come nobody kept them down? :confused:

[otisthebat]

blah blah blah.

TLDR,

if i was to start a group called the white yachtsman club, and only allow in whites, would that be racist?

[Tekkendo]

I do not know about the issue , I have backed up my statements in this very post. I don't care what people think , when white people have the advantage as when it comes to getting jobs, who cares about the ones who claim black people who make it do so because of a AA . That is like someone getting a 6 sec. head start in a race complaining that the guy who beat him ad a 2 sec. head start.

Thanks to AA, whenever people see a black person gets ahead, people tend to wonder may be he didnt there by his own merit, even when he has earned it. AA insults the minorities who earn their success.

[Tekkendo]

TLDR,

if i was to start a group called the white yachtsman club, and only allow in whites, would that be racist?
of course you are a racist. Only whites can be racist, didn't you know?

[psiconoclast]

TLDR,

if i was to start a group called the white yachtsman club, and only allow in whites, would that be racist?

Lazy as well as cognitively challenged, I see.

What's your solution to not having racism in hiring, since you are clearly so concerned on the subject?

I have a massive dunce hat waiting for you with your name on it, if your answer is to do away with all diversity programs and replace them with nothing at all.

[ThePinsir]

Lol first thing I thought of when I read the title was South Park..."Operation Get Behind the Darkies"

ha! same here!

[otisthebat]

Lazy as well as cognitively challenged, I see.

What's your solution to not having racism in hiring, since you are clearly so concerned on the subject?

I have a massive dunce hat waiting for you with your name on it, if your answer is to do away with all diversity programs and replace them with nothing at all.

answer my f*cking question. would it be racist?

[nutsy54]

more specifically, the DOJ while bush was in office.Seriously? You think a blatant lie like that will go unchallenged?

Since when was Bush "in office" in May 2009?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/29/career-lawyers-overruled-on-voting-case/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574361071968458430.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504564_162-20010581-504564.html

BRB - Can't defend Obama with facts, so just make up some bullsh*t lies to attack his predecessor instead :rolleyes:

[psiconoclast]

answer my f*cking question. would it be racist?

I'd actually appreciate it if you answered my previous post (which you dismissed as TLDR).

In the meantime, yes, it would be racist to start the club you describe, and only allow white members.

Before you respond, I can predict your tired response already: "Blah blah, that's the same thing as government not hiring a white person, and hiring some other ethnicity, because of a rule on a piece of paper somewhere, blah blah."

No, it isn't. One is a policy designed to make sure that certain people are included. The other is a policy to make sure that certain people are excluded. See the difference?

Unless you recognize that difference, offer your own positive alternative to addressing racial bias in hiring or offer evidence that said racial bias does not actually exist, I consider this conversation over. You are free to continue to call me a racist to your heart's content, however, if that makes you feel any better.

[joeybsmooth]

Thanks to AA, whenever people see a black person gets ahead, people tend to wonder may be he didnt there by his own merit, even when he has earned it. AA insults the minorities who earn their success.

They people who think that would think ill of black people even if there were not AA, like I stated and have proven in this topic , white people have the advantage when everything is equal. So with this in made and using your own logic people should think white people did no get their via their own merit .



Or we coud just go by your preconceived notions and say teh white man be keeping everybody down, wring our hands over it and sing kumba yah.. Meanwhile ignoring the fact that there are minority doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, astronauts, and businessmen.

How come nobody kept them down? :confused:

So you still have not come up with anything to disprove my statements . Just because something is harder does not mean it is impossible .

[joeybsmooth]

Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez ( BUSH DOJ)

PEREZ: Moving to the matter at hand, the events occurred on November 4th, 2008. The Department became aware of these events on Election Day and decided to conduct further inquiry.

After reviewing the matter, the Civil Rights Division determined that the facts did not constitute a prosecutable violation of the criminal statutes. The Department did, however, file a civil action on January 7th, 2009, seeking injunctive and declaratory relief under 11(b) against four defendants.

[nutsy54]

Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez ( BUSH DOJ)

PEREZ: Moving to the matter at hand, the events occurred on November 4th, 2008. The Department became aware of these events on Election Day and decided to conduct further inquiry.

After reviewing the matter, the Civil Rights Division determined that the facts did not constitute a prosecutable violation of the criminal statutes. The Department did, however, file a civil action on January 7th, 2009, seeking injunctive and declaratory relief under 11(b) against four defendants.Thanks for adding the additional proof. The Bush administration filed charges. The Obama administration subsequently dropped those charges.

[joeybsmooth]

Thanks for adding the additional proof. The Bush administration filed charges. The Obama administration subsequently dropped those charges.

They dropped the CRIMINAL CASE. And Obama's DOJ got an injection on the person carrying the stick. While nothing happen the guy outside a polling harassing Latino people with while carrying a Gun. The the worse that could have happen to these people were 3 more injections ..

"After reviewing the matter, the Civil Rights Division determined that the facts did not constitute a prosecutable violation of the criminal statutes"

[Salavat23]

Of course Obama would support Affirmative Action. He is a product of that system himself.

[Weightaholic]

Hire on merit, not on skin colour. It's inherently demeaning to those of "colour" who do get hired.

Did they get the job because they're good, or because they're black/mexican/indian etc? Who knows?

Someone in this thread said the word "meritocracy". Not a chance. If anything, we have the inevitable dumbing down of Amercia - a moronocracy.



Oh, and a special shout out to psiconoclast. People like you are the reason for this moronocracy. Hiring based on skin colour, or quotas, or affirmative action, or whatever BS name you'd like to call it, no matter how well intentioned, is racist. It's not rocket science.

[joeybsmooth]

Hire on merit, not on skin colour. It's inherently demeaning to those of "colour" who do get hired.

Did they get the job because they're good, or because they're black/mexican/indian etc? Who knows?

Someone in this thread said the word "meritocracy". Not a chance. If anything, we have the inevitable dumbing down of Amercia - a moronocracy.



Oh, and a special shout out to psiconoclast. People like you are the reason for this moronocracy. Hiring based on skin colour, or quotas, or affirmative action, or whatever BS name you'd like to call it, no matter how well intentioned, is racist. It's not rocket science.


I will say to you the same thing I said another post . Right now as we speak white people who are even qualified with black people still have the advantage when it comes to getting jobs . Since this is the case using your logic should we say white people should be questioned about how they got their jobs. People are complaining about people get a 2 second head start, while they are setting back enjoying a 20 second head start.

[Sodao]

Seriously? You think a blatant lie like that will go unchallenged?

Since when was Bush "in office" in May 2009?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/29/career-lawyers-overruled-on-voting-case/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574361071968458430.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504564_162-20010581-504564.html

BRB - Can't defend Obama with facts, so just make up some bullsh*t lies to attack his predecessor instead :rolleyes: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jul/23/bill-oreilly/bill-oreilly-blames-obama-administration-not-pursu/

i'm sorry i hurt your feelings by "insulting" bush, but i was merely stating the truth. don't take it personally when someone says something about bush, i assure you, it isn't meant to hurt you.

[Weightaholic]

I will say to you the same thing I said another post .

And I'll do the same. Any form of "affirmative action", where you are supposed to, either by convention or legislation, hire someone based on their skin colour, or cultural background, is racist and discriminatory.

Anyone who doesn't understand this is a product of the moronocracy these idiotic policies result in.

[NeggerPlz]

lulz at white guys fighting with disadvantaged minorities for measly gov jobs

get a freaking education you lazy bums,

how fuking retarded/inbred you have to be to complain about such issue

you had generations to pick yourself up from your current socio-economic status

and now you crybabying cus you could not

you freaking blew it, sucks to be you

i got here 16yro, couple hundo in my pocket, no one to know, no connections, now I am an engineering grad, earning upper 5 figures.

get a fuking brain you morans.

[psiconoclast]

Hire on merit, not on skin colour. It's inherently demeaning to those of "colour" who do get hired.

Did they get the job because they're good, or because they're black/mexican/indian etc? Who knows?

Someone in this thread said the word "meritocracy". Not a chance. If anything, we have the inevitable dumbing down of Amercia - a moronocracy.



Oh, and a special shout out to psiconoclast. People like you are the reason for this moronocracy. Hiring based on skin colour, or quotas, or affirmative action, or whatever BS name you'd like to call it, no matter how well intentioned, is racist. It's not rocket science.

In a perfect world, all hiring would be merit based.

A perfect world this is not.

It has already been well established that, without intervention, America hires white people who are less qualified over minorities who are more qualified.

I'm not advocating purely hiring based on race, either. The candidates should be qualified, but when there are more qualified candidates than jobs (like now, with unemployment so high), then I believe it is appropriate to take steps to make sure that hiring practices are not racist.

So. . . Present an alternative that guarantees that hiring is merit based without imposing some sort of diversity program, and I'll consider it on its merit. Otherwise you don't care about racism in hiring unless it might go against whites, and THAT seems pretty racist.

Again, I'm on record as not especially liking diversity programs, and definitely recognizing their potential downsides. I've yet to see a better alternative, however. All the alternatives I have seen involve ignoring the facts, or assuming that people magically stop discriminating.

Reasonable (and reasonably intelligent) adults understand that there are often no perfect solutions to the complicated problems of the real world. The clear path is to weigh the available evidence, and then choose what seems to be the best of a series of imperfect choices, and then evaluate and adjust as needed.

Oh, and for extra sh!ts and giggles, let's have a little historical review:

Slavery: abolished by constitutional amendment
Right to citizenship regardless of race: granted by constitutional amendment
Right to vote regardless of race or previous condition of servitude: granted by constitutional amendment
Racial integration of US armed forces: accomplished via executive order
End of racial segregation/discrimination: accompished via legislative action

What does it mean? It means that, without making rules this country does not seem to be able to behave as it knows it should with regard to race.

Or where along that line should we have stopped the legal intervention, and simply let things take their course?

[joeybsmooth]

And I'll do the same. Any form of "affirmative action", where you are supposed to, either by convention or legislation, hire someone based on their skin colour, or cultural background, is racist and discriminatory.

Anyone who doesn't understand this is a product of the moronocracy these idiotic policies result in.

Worry about the people who have the 20 sec. head start before you complain about the the people with a 4 sec. head start.

[otisthebat]

In the meantime, yes, it would be racist to start the club you describe, and only allow white members.


f*cking hypocrite.

i would be showing preference based on skin color, you JUST said that wasnt racism, yet now you say it is.....

[kratosbrah]

f*cking hypocrite.

i would be showing preference based on skin color, you JUST said that wasnt racism, yet now you say it is.....

It's only racist if he perceives it as beneficial to White people.

One could say his racial bias has been exposed.

[Weightaholic]

Worry about the people who have the 20 sec. head start before you complain about the the people with a 4 sec. head start.

Worry about improving yourself. That way you won't need to take advantage of discrimination in order to be "equal". Waaah, I can't get a job because I'm black/mexican/poor/indian/stupid/wall-eyed/have only one testicle! I needs me some affirmative action! Get real. You want to get somewhere in life, get there by being the best. I, or someone like me will hire you if you are. Hell, I'd hire Hitler or Stalin if they were the best at what I wanted them to do.

Ignore idiots like psiconoclast... the one sure path to failure is to have others give you a "helping hand".

You won't be a winner though. You've already got the victim mentality. You think everyone has a head start on you. For you, my friend, the race is already run....

[watertoy]

Polish and Asians are learning English while the other kids get a headstart.

[jewelscoff]

Bush dropped the charges... only four states have a "non-white" majority... meanwhile they still hold the VAST majority of federal jobs... even in those states in which whites AREN'T the majority...

I'm a republican... and I don't agree with most of Obama's decisions as president... but you sound like a typical voter from ohio

im so glad you can call republican out on their bull****. thank you.

[joeybsmooth]

And I'll do the same. Any form of "affirmative action", where you are supposed to, either by convention or legislation, hire someone based on their skin colour, or cultural background, is racist and discriminatory.

Anyone who doesn't understand this is a product of the moronocracy these idiotic policies result in.


Worry about improving yourself. That way you won't need to take advantage of discrimination in order to be "equal". Waaah, I can't get a job because I'm black/mexican/poor/indian/stupid/wall-eyed/have only one testicle! I needs me some affirmative action! Get real. You want to get somewhere in life, get there by being the best. I, or someone like me will hire you if you are. Hell, I'd hire Hitler or Stalin if they were the best at what I wanted them to do.

Ignore idiots like psiconoclast... the one sure path to failure is to have others give you a "helping hand".

You won't be a winner though. You've already got the victim mentality. You think everyone has a head start on you. For you, my friend, the race is already run....

I am a realest. I have already highlighted in this topic where black people with better qualifications have gotten past over for white people and this is not a one time thing. I have faced in my life.

[watertoy]

I am a realest. I have already highlighted in this topic where black people with better qualifications have gotten past over for white people and this is not a one time thing. I have faced in my life.

That's a serious spelling error imo. It's also "passed over".

[umbro7267]

Drop charges against black panthers.. check

Favor minorities in federal hiring.. check (while ignoring that whites are minorities in some states)

Post-racial president indeed

But if we put an a Mexican on police duty wouldn't he want to mow your grass? Jus saying an maybe more white work because they want to get somewhere in life, I feel ****ty when I have to accept help, so I don't know how people who can work can complain that they are under qualified for the big money that they want handed to them

[joeybsmooth]

That's a serious spelling error imo. It's also "passed over".

Two am on a Message Board, I was unaware that grammar counted. The internet grammar attack: last refuge of those who cannot support their points when faced with facts. If you would not mind could you address the point, and not my message board grammar?

[AloneUnafraid]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9rXA19rHy-aJdweALj0gemyhtXqRMaeWIXhmvX-dC855Y3L0A

Hello my fellow minorities, would you like some free stuff



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTlCXH_pYvblZOD2pmQecdKdpzCJUpqc LFtcLF9934ChcRIm-A6

Y'all nuggas be welcome




http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvLK-3A_HBwIEeA3V8E2YVCBfMy2fvJ-88LkyDa72GFfmSGMyvNg

now now, I can't take all the credit (ok, I will but only if there is no blame for anything attached), it's a group effort here



http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdLZoEa_75ZuP83seFPod57kW9vSBdZ-IG8_uQ1dkVXvP_8F4k

For too long, the white man has been reaping the benefits of his hard labor. For too long we've been forced to live off of small govt handouts. Now is the time my brethren to level the playing fields. We deserve more of that money. We need to create a world of greater equality.
















































http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCOBE_W1iDs-y1JDutwdHMZD3nyvcYexpiCDeB6XaFYstExnN4


Problem?








http://usahitman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/fraud-obama-6-735308.jpg


woodnotpissonifonfire/10

[watertoy]

Two am on a Message Board, I was unaware that grammar counted. The internet grammar attack: last refuge of those who cannot support their points when faced with facts. If you would not mind could you address the point, and not my message board grammar?

Maybe you got passed over because of your spelling rather than other reasons.

[psiconoclast]

f*cking hypocrite.

i would be showing preference based on skin color, you JUST said that wasnt racism, yet now you say it is.....

Quite the insult and personal attack there! I thought you didn't like that. Rejoin this conversation when you can maintain your own standards, and when you are capable of understanding the difference between inclusion and exclusion. You don't have to agree with me, but you could at least acknowledge my point instead of trying to win an argument by ignoring what I say.

[psiconoclast]

It's only racist if he perceives it as beneficial to White people.

One could say his racial bias has been exposed.

Totally. I'm a white hating white person who shudders at the thought of how beneficial it would be for white racists to be able to form a white racist yacht club.

Damn you for exposing me!

[otisthebat]

Quite the insult and personal attack there! I thought you didn't like that. Rejoin this conversation when you can maintain your own standards, and when you are capable of understanding the difference between inclusion and exclusion. You don't have to agree with me, but you could at least acknowledge my point instead of trying to win an argument by ignoring what I say.

calling someone a hypocrite when there is factual evidence of them being one, is not a personal attack. you ARE a hypocrite. come on back and face the music. hypocrite.

[joeybsmooth]

Maybe you got passed over because of your spelling rather than other reasons.

As my sig indicates I have a disability, this is something I have learned to deal with. When submitting official documentation I do not make mistakes. However while I am typing online I do not take the same amount of care as I do when working .

Also AloneUnafraid

You do know white people get more handouts than any other group, and also to top that off, things like the Homestead act was only open to white people, and Jim Crow Laws where places would only hire white people. And can you tell me who benefited from the hard labor of slavery ?

[kratosbrah]

Totally. I'm a white hating white person who shudders at the thought of how beneficial it would be for white racists to be able to form a white racist yacht club.

Damn you for exposing me!

Meh, I'm not even White, but what would be the problem here? What, do you expect Men to change their ideologies because of your whining? Foolish thinking, let em form their club and have circle jerks on their yachts, it's not really causing you any strife.

Would it hurt your vagina if they did such a thing? You seem to have a very authoritarian perspective on this issue, typical, the most prolific proponents of this issue of social-engineering are usually very authoritarian, leftist individuals. You probably loathe your own people, lulz.

Bow down to the minorities, bitch.

[psiconoclast]

Worry about improving yourself. That way you won't need to take advantage of discrimination in order to be "equal". Waaah, I can't get a job because I'm black/mexican/poor/indian/stupid/wall-eyed/have only one testicle! I needs me some affirmative action! Get real. You want to get somewhere in life, get there by being the best. I, or someone like me will hire you if you are. Hell, I'd hire Hitler or Stalin if they were the best at what I wanted them to do.

Ignore idiots like psiconoclast... the one sure path to failure is to have others give you a "helping hand".

You won't be a winner though. You've already got the victim mentality. You think everyone has a head start on you. For you, my friend, the race is already run....

You know what I like? I like the part where you actually answered me and engaged in a meaningful dialogue to attempt to change my mind.

Oh wait! You didn't do that!

I know that you got where you are in life with no help from anyone else, you were ripped from your mother and when she offered you her breast, you shoved her away, and proceded to nourish yourself by living off the land, eating crocodiles and spiders and whatever else you could kill. Of course, you didn't go to school, because the "helping hand" of the educational system would have certainly doomed you to failure. Instead you ran a mental simulation of all of human history, and reconstructed everything you needed to know from first principles. Now you run naked across the outback, you won't use roads built by other people, and paid for by your fellow man, no sir!

Please.

Nobody in the world today is where they are without an almost incalculable debt to those who came before, and to the collective efforts of their fellow citizens.

Should we try to make sure that everyone is equal? Hell no! Should we work our asses off to make sure that people get a fair shake based on how hard they work, and how productive they are? Hell yes!

[psiconoclast]

calling someone a hypocrite when there is factual evidence of them being one, is not a personal attack. you ARE a hypocrite. come on back and face the music. hypocrite.

I'm not going anywhere, moron.

Since you clearly are a remedial case, repeat after me: Inclusion is NOT the same as exclusion.

If there was some sort of affirmative action that said that, under no circumstances, should white (or any other ethnicity) people be hired, then yes, you would have made a stellar point.

That's not what the guidelines say though. In that warped pea brain of yours, you've managed to equate a policy that excludes all but one ethnicity with a policy that includes ALL ethnicities.

Why so mad though? If there is a specific case where unqualified minorities were hired over qualified whites, then bring it up. Hell, I might even agree with you. The police sometimes shoot innocent people. Soldiers sometimes die in friendly fire. Surgeons sometimes kill their patients. Sh!t happens, and the best of intentions sometimes go horribly wrong, and lead to the wrong outcomes. Guess what, though, in all of those cases, the individual examples of things going horribly wrong are not evidence for doing away with the thing itself.

[WMcEnaney]

Affirmative action's supporters mean well. Maybe some affirmative action programs help many people, too, but after I used it to get my first job, I hated affirmative action because it demeaned me. To entice my first boss, a state agency gave me a form that would give a private-sector employer a tax break when that company hired me. I got the job, where I traveled for work, used an expense account, and wore a three-piece suit most days. I don't know how or how much the form affected my former boss and the company where we worked. I do know that I felt as though the form implied that, even if I couldn't get the job on my merits, at least the company would save some money. Has anyone ever wondered whether some affirmative action users, some handicapped people, say, might use their condition to try to get their bosses to excuse them for mediocre or poor performance? Some dishonest people might think, "Hmm, I got the job and an excellent salary. Now, if I do less well than I can do, I'll get away with it and still earn what they're paying me now." I don't know about members of other minorities. But I've known some handicapped people who manipulated able-bodied ones very skillfully. Too, too many minority members think like Marxists. "We're the persecuted innocent ones. Everyone else is the oppressive enemy." Guess what. There are good people in the minorities and good ones in the majority. Bad ones are there, too. Many handicapped people, including me, hate to be stereotyped. Many of us dislike hasty generalizations about us, too. But if we treat the majority as a hateful persecutor, we're generalizing hastily, stereotyping, or both.

[psiconoclast]

Meh, I'm not even White, but what would be the problem here? What, do you expect Men to change their ideologies because of your whining? Foolish thinking, let em form their club and have circle jerks on their yachts, it's not really causing you any strife.

Would it hurt your vagina if they did such a thing? You seem to have a very authoritarian perspective on this issue, typical, the most prolific proponents of this issue of social-engineering are usually very authoritarian, leftist individuals. You probably loathe your own people, lulz.

Bow down to the minorities, bitch.

Huh? Is this real life?

I don't give a flying f*ck what private racist dickwads do in terms of private clubs, paid for with private dollars, provided no laws are broken, people harmed, pictures of puppy torture uploaded to the Internet, etc. All of my arguments are centered around public jobs.

[kratosbrah]

no, it's trendy for them to display their insecurity by whining so much

No, it's trendy to say it's trendy to display their insecurity by whining so much when they oppose your idiotic bull****.

[kratosbrah]

Huh? Is this real life?

I don't give a flying f*ck what private racist dickwads do in terms of private clubs, paid for with private dollars, provided no laws are broken, people harmed, pictures of puppy torture uploaded to the Internet, etc. All of my arguments are centered around public jobs.

Minorities have a huge advantage in government/public jobs over Whites.

I'm a Pakistani and I am fully ready to admit this, rofl.

You'd have to be a blind mother****er to not see this, though.

Hell, "minorities" have a huge advantage over Pakis because we're not considered minorities when we check Asian on forms, which is utter bull****. I guess minority is just another word for pussy ass, weak ass victim class.

[psiconoclast]

Minorities have a huge advantage in government/public jobs over Whites.

I'm a Pakistani and I am fully ready to admit this, rofl.

You'd have to be a blind mother****er to not see this, though.

I find it fascinating - my stated opinion is that I don't like diversity programs, and wish that everything could simply be merit based. However, the evidence indicates that there is racism, and so, diversity programs are better than the alternative.

Somehow everyone seems to read that as: "Diversity programs are the best thing since sliced bread!"

Geez!

But OK, I'll play, what's your answer? Do we do away with all diversity programs, and let the chips fall where they may (even though we know that, collectively, the society is still racially biased)? Or is there another option, that I have not considered, that would correct for at least some of the racial bias that exists, but with fewer negative side effects as compared to current diversity programs?

[Covershot09]

Private sectors hire more whites

Public sector hire more minorities

/thread


In all honesty, people should get hired BASED on their merits/credentials.

[BEARDofNORRIS]

In my government office-we have 6 civilian employees. 3 White, 2 Black and 1 Hispanic. If you add in the military folks - we have 6 white, 7 Black and 4 Hispanic. If anything, minorities are over-represented in my office.

[Weightaholic]

You know what I like? I like the part where you actually answered me and engaged in a meaningful dialogue to attempt to change my mind.

Oh wait! You didn't do that!

I know that you got where you are in life with no help from anyone else, you were ripped from your mother and when she offered you her breast, you shoved her away, and proceded to nourish yourself by living off the land, eating crocodiles and spiders and whatever else you could kill. Of course, you didn't go to school, because the "helping hand" of the educational system would have certainly doomed you to failure. Instead you ran a mental simulation of all of human history, and reconstructed everything you needed to know from first principles. Now you run naked across the outback, you won't use roads built by other people, and paid for by your fellow man, no sir!

Please.

Nobody in the world today is where they are without an almost incalculable debt to those who came before, and to the collective efforts of their fellow citizens.

Should we try to make sure that everyone is equal? Hell no! Should we work our asses off to make sure that people get a fair shake based on how hard they work, and how productive they are? Hell yes!

So, in all of your dribbling fcktard rant, please point out to me where the same education system I availed myself of wasn't available to anyone else.

Typical leftist tree-hugging namby-pamby nonsense.

[YUL]

No, it's trendy to say it's trendy to display their insecurity by whining so much when they oppose your idiotic bull****.

let's be real brah.. constantly complaining minorities with no form of influence or power are highly unlikely to have any sort of meaningful impact on the established majority (folks like you and me)

just lulzy to see majority folks getting in a tiff over meaningless stuff

[psiconoclast]

So, in all of your dribbling fcktard rant, please point out to me where the same education system I availed myself of wasn't available to anyone else.

Typical leftist tree-hugging namby-pamby nonsense.

Now we are getting somewhere. The question is about equality of opportunity. With school, it's more cut and dry - everyone goes to school. Of course, some people would point out that even in public and/or regulated systems, not all schools are equal, but that's a whole different discussion. The point is that you recognize that if school itself were available to one ethnic group, but not to another, that would be inherently unfair, and something that would need intervention to fix, yes?

OK, so now back to jobs. The evidence is clear: In America (presumably elsewhere as well, but this is all about American public policy), there is a clear racial bias (favoring whites by a significant margin) in hiring. This means that, while in theory Americans have equal access to education, they don't have equal access to jobs. So, if a member of any given minority works their ass off in school, gets good grades, has a great work ethic, but experiences getting passed over for less well qualified non-minority applicants (this is the reality much of the time), then what would be your prescription for dealing with it?

In America right now, private companies are not required to meet diversity guidelines - they are merely required to not blatantly discriminate based on race. It is only public sector jobs (and some private contractors who compete for public contracts) that have to meet diversity requirements.

The options seem pretty clear:

1. Do nothing, and allow the racial bias to continue unchecked for however long it continues.

2. Don't have diversity guidelines, but do have penalties for discrimination based on race (private companies in America)

3. Do have diversity guidelines, to guarantee that identified minorities are represented (public sector jobs in America)

If someone argues for the first (doing nothing), then, however unintentionally, they are, given the available evidence, supporting a plan that systematically discriminates against minorities in favor of non-minorities.

The second two options are both flawed - although penalties for race based discrimination have clearly lead to a more integrated workplace in the private sector, the evidence is abundantly clear that there is still a pronounced racial hiring bias in favor of non-minorities. Diversity guidelines are also flawed, in that they sometimes result in a less well qualified applicant getting hired over a more qualified applicant, they can foster feelings of racial animosity and they can also diminish performance incentive.

In my opinion, doing nothing to address clear racial bias is an unacceptable option, especially when equal opportunity legislation has clearly had a positive impact on fair and equal access to jobs.

So, the real question, then, is how best to deal with the racial bias? Again, in my opinion, the way that America is doing it right now is actually on the right track. The private sector solution errs on the side of to much leeway, but does not shackle private institutions with diversity guidelines. The public sector solution errs on the side of too much regulation - forcing the desired outcome, despite the obvious issues along the way.

Can things be better? Sure they can!

Equal opportunity legislation could doubtless be tweaked to better address the kind of discrimination that is taking place in the private sector. Penalties and enforcement could doubtless be updated to better incentivize people to pay attention. Awareness campaigns can be used to create a better understanding of how racial bias can creep into even well intentioned offices.

Public sector diversity guidelines can be improved as well. Point based hiring and absolute quotas could be replaced with statistically modulated candidate pools (the proportion of the candidate pool is tweaked to offset any ethnic imbalance that currently exists, but managers are free to hire the best candidates from within the candidate pool, even if the result does not move towards the goal distribution).

Ball's in your court. What option(s) do you favor, or are there options that I have failed to consider?

[jmonty]

texas.

at least in my county, hispanics are the majority.


Hawaii
California
Texas
New Mexico

ah. i was not aware. wiki even has an article.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority-minority_state

[jmonty]

They are disadvantaged because of their genetics. There is nothing can be done. They simply aren't as smart as whites and asians.

negged

[Tekkendo]

lulz at white guys fighting with disadvantaged minorities for measly gov jobs

...........

get a fuking brain you morans.
:D lolz


http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/moran.jpg

[AloneUnafraid]

Also AloneUnafraid

You do know white people get more handouts than any other group, and also to top that off, things like the Homestead act was only open to white people, and Jim Crow Laws where places would only hire white people. And can you tell me who benefited from the hard labor of slavery ?

Homestead Act= passed in 1861. Well no sh*t. The US was racist as fuark back then.
Jim Crow Laws= Passed in racist southern states. Now Over.
Slavery= FUARKING OVER

Srs, you need to not "get over that shyt", but realize now that the US is a VERY different place. People now for the most part could not give a flying fukk about the color of your skin. Just because the president is black it doesn't mean that this is the golden age of "get back at white America." If minorities want Equality, then things need to be equal. Stop fukking whining about how things USED to be and look at the situation now.

The black communities problems don't come from the govt, they don't come from society. They come from within. There is a complete lack of emphasis on education, and on the family unit. The govt cant fix these problems because they stem from a complete and utter failure on the part of the mother and father. You can give out handouts, college tuition, and special slots in jobs, but they won't be truly equal. Why? because they were given special consideration based on the color of their skin, not because of their merits or the content of their character.


http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg7/scaled.php?server=7&filename=200804drmartinlutherkin.jpg&res=medium

[JPSF4LIFE]

Thanks for adding the additional proof. The Bush administration filed charges. The Obama administration subsequently dropped those charges.

yup.

[Sodao]

yup.>read what agrees with my viewpoint
>ignore contrary evidence

[KRNEKIM]

Drop charges against black panthers.. check

Favor minorities in federal hiring.. check (while ignoring that whites are minorities in some states)

Post-racial president indeed

because we live in a post-racial world right? i mean come on civil rights act passed during our parents' times. that means no more racism now.

gtfo troll

[JoshSP1985]

you do realize that hiring someone because of the color of their skin is racist right? therefor you support racism.

This

Black History Month is racist too (very serious)

[joeybsmooth]

Homestead Act= passed in 1861. Well no sh*t. The US was racist as fuark back then.
Jim Crow Laws= Passed in racist southern states. Now Over.
Slavery= FUARKING OVER

Srs, you need to not "get over that shyt", but realize now that the US is a VERY different place. People now for the most part could not give a flying fukk about the color of your skin. Just because the president is black it doesn't mean that this is the golden age of "get back at white America." If minorities want Equality, then things need to be equal. Stop fukking whining about how things USED to be and look at the situation now.

The black communities problems don't come from the govt, they don't come from society. They come from within. There is a complete lack of emphasis on education, and on the family unit. The govt cant fix these problems because they stem from a complete and utter failure on the part of the mother and father. You can give out handouts, college tuition, and special slots in jobs, but they won't be truly equal. Why? because they were given special consideration based on the color of their skin, not because of their merits or the content of their character.


http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg7/scaled.php?server=7&filename=200804drmartinlutherkin.jpg&res=medium

Yeah lets look at the situation now .

When everything else is equal a black person would be passed over, even with a white person with a record .

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/14/race-criminal-background-and-employment/

If your name sounds black you will get passed over for people less qualified .

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2003/resume.html

And that is even acting like the things such as the Homestead, act and jim Crow Laws do not have an effect on today.

[Blindead]

lol. What is that? 80% of the population? It would be one thing to help a specific minority group who is actually discriminated against for immoral reasons, but to help the vast majority of the US because they are supposedly being discriminated? How the fk can a huge majority like this be discriminated against when we live in nearly a direct democracy at this point (and not the representative republic set forth in the Const.)?

nearly direct democracy? are you retarded?

[AloneUnafraid]

Yeah lets look at the situation now .

When everything else is equal a black person would be passed over, even with a white person with a record .

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/14/race-criminal-background-and-employment/

If your name sounds black you will get passed over for people less qualified .

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2003/resume.html

And that is even acting like the things such as the Homestead, act and jim Crow Laws do not have an effect on today.


I'm not going to lie, those are pretty interesting studies. Seeing that we both live in SC (I'm in Charleston), I think we're looking at pretty much the same environment. While I won't refute that there are still some backward folks who think that the color of a persons skin is a representation of that persons character, that is moving by the wayside. The issues in the black community still are family and education based.

It's tragic. There are many single parents in every race and community, but the stigma exists for a reason. For Christs sake, there's a black president RUNNING THIS COUNTRY. I think that's a rather telling sign about racism and the effects of the homestead act and Jim Crow. That era is over and the back community needs to find itself and get focused on education and the creation of stable family units. I literally see HUNDREDS of people stuck in a self-destructive culture that focuses on habits and professions (if you can call them that) that destroy communities and the individuals ability to function and operate successfully in mainstream society. If these attributes have been cemented as cultural and societal law in the back community, then don't expect things to change.

There is SO MUCH untapped potential being squandered on crime, prison, and violence. THAT is what needs to be fixed so that the rest of the population can see that things have changed. I could not give a single flying fukk about someones color. What I do care about is how they carry themselves, communicate with others, and interact with their surroundings. If those stigmas (just or unjust as you see them) can be fixed, there will be a change in society. Is it entirely fair that these negative labels are placed on an entire group of people? No. Can these labels be fixed if corrective actions are taken by the whole? Yes.

In the end, the responsibility lies on the black community. The discrimination that you've posted on may have been law at one point, but those times are over. The door is open. People just need to decide if they want to earn what they have based on merit, or if they want to remain content living under laws that force employers and institutions of higher learning to hire/admit to meet federally mandated guidelines.


I eagerly await your response.

[AloneUnafraid]

Still waiting phaggot.