Do you count fiberous veggies in your carb count?

[areya2005]

Pretty much as the title states.

[adamjohn32]

Yes

[adamrochester]

yes it makes No sense not to they have calories in them ........ why wouldn't you

[tagun]

Been asked a couple of times already and the answer is yes. If you count your macros and calories you count everything that has a caloric and macro value lol. Why wouldn't you?

Fiber = carbs = calories.

[CaseySmithBB]

No. I eat basically unlimited green veggies coming from green beans, asparagus, spinach, or broccoli. I do not count them in my daily caloric intake.

[tagun]

No. I eat basically unlimited green veggies coming from green beans, asparagus, spinach, or broccoli. I do not count them in my daily caloric intake.

If you're consistent you can get away with it just fine. You do have to realize tho that you could be getting as much as 30 grams of extra carbs (which can be a lot deep in prep) from as little as 400 grams of green beans (2 meals worth?).

So if you're big on veggies there could be an extra 50 grams (or even) more of carbs in those. That **** can add up over time, especially when your daily intake is like 200 grams CHO. But as I've said if you're consistent with it and have started your diet like that... Then it's fine.

[juliacheh]

Not a competitor, but yes.

[MAX.MAREK]

No. Dont count em. No need.

[red_cat]

No. I eat basically unlimited green veggies coming from green beans, asparagus, spinach, or broccoli. I do not count them in my daily caloric intake.

This is my approach and, as long as you're consistent, it works out just fine.

[domingochavez]

Normally yes but if I am at my carb limit for the day that wont stop me from having a few cups of brocoli to help keep me satisfied.

[asd60303]

nope, never have.

[HoustonTXMuscle]

Yes

The carbs from brussel sprouts (23 g, 121 cal), aspargus (10 g, 53 cal), and spinach (3 g, 21 cal) in my 6 daily meals (irrespective of hi vs. low carb days) are consistent. Both my former and present coach say that they should be counted.

[02powerstroke]

It's all relative... you will adjust your 'calories' based on if you are seeing results... if you don't count them and you aren't seeing progress, you will lower your calories (other carbs etc) to see results... at the end of the day, the mirror is the judge

[02powerstroke]

Here's a quick check on wether it matters... try eating as much veggies as you can possibly stomach thru the day.. see where it gets you

[areya2005]

I ask because for the most part, I count them. There are nights when the hunger pangs kick in and I nosh on a little broccoli. I don't feel the need to put it in the journal.

I think of it like this....If I'm not progressing because of 1-2 cups of broccoli, something else in my diet is wrong lol.

[CHRIS925]

Normally yes but if I am at my carb limit for the day that wont stop me from having a few cups of brocoli to help keep me satisfied.


I ask because for the most part, I count them. There are nights when the hunger pangs kick in and I nosh on a little broccoli. I don't feel the need to put it in the journal.

I think of it like this....If I'm not progressing because of 1-2 cups of broccoli, something else in my diet is wrong lol.

The inconsistency is where you brahz are goin' wrong! Make it a regular thing to either COUNT.. or DON'T.. and if your veggie consumption is medium to high and varied from day to day.. I suggest to count it all.

[Warrior9]

I ask because for the most part, I count them. There are nights when the hunger pangs kick in and I nosh on a little broccoli. I don't feel the need to put it in the journal.

I think of it like this....If I'm not progressing because of 1-2 cups of broccoli, something else in my diet is wrong lol.

yupp, then that leads to..

"wellllllll, one more ________ won't hurt, and another __________ won't hurt" and by the time you add up all those carbs/cals by the end of the week you're looking at the 100's

[bwelch1985]

For the last 4-5 weeks of prep, I didn't count ANYTHING!:eek:

I just ate the exact same foods, in the exact same amounts every single day:D


The key is consistency. If you don't want to count veggies, don't count them...but be sure to eat the same amount every day. They are like any other food you eat, they have calories and they provide energy....if you eat too much, you won't be burning fat as effectively.

[str8flexed]

vegetables & fiber, while not absorbed as a carb, are fermented by the intestine & turned into short chain fatty acids which are then absorbed through the liver & thus you most definitely get calories from them. They are not 'free'

[Cytrainer913]

They are free if they are on weight watchers, right?

Man count your foods they if it has cals count it, please, if you ever run into it where the weight comes off the wrong way and/or plateaus most likely a reason.

[DREhova 87]

vegetables & fiber, while not absorbed as a carb, are fermented by the intestine & turned into short chain fatty acids which are then absorbed through the liver & thus you most definitely get calories from them. They are not 'free'

^ Laynes responses are all $$$. Wish I could chat like that. lol


They are free if they are on weight watchers, right?

Man count your foods they if it has cals count it, please, if you ever run into it where the weight comes off the wrong way and/or plateaus most likely a reason.

I have a buddy doing weight watchers...they give free fruits and veggies. I guess the point is just to get more people to make better choices.

That being said...you posted this in contest prep..>Count everything...down to you BCAA's and sticks of sugar free gum.

[Exezy]

lettuce be reality, if your not losing weight cuz your eating too much lettuce or broccoli something else is wrong

[MAX.MAREK]

lettuce be reality, if your not losing weight cuz your eating too much lettuce or broccoli something else is wrong

Seriously. Well said. Waste of time to count the 2-3cups of veggies (max) consumed. If you cant lose weight, theres something else goin on. Veggies are minuet compared fats, proteins and starch carbs. Those need more attention then veggies fellas.

[andyboi]

vegetables & fiber, while not absorbed as a carb, are fermented by the intestine & turned into short chain fatty acids which are then absorbed through the liver & thus you most definitely get calories from them. They are not 'free'

3 kcal p/gram of fiber if I am not mistaken?

[str8flexed]

3 kcal p/gram of fiber if I am not mistaken?

About that but depends upon the specific fiber and the persons intestinal bacterial make up

[CHRIS925]

Seriously. Well said. Waste of time to count the 2-3cups of veggies (max) consumed. If you cant lose weight, theres something else goin on. Veggies are minuet compared fats, proteins and starch carbs. Those need more attention then veggies fellas.

minuet doesn't mean non-existent.. 2-3 cups adds up just as anything else bro! To each their own I guess.. But I don't see why not be more accurate for more overall control and less undertainty.

[str8flexed]

minuet doesn't mean non-existent.. 2-3 cups adds up just as anything else bro! To each their own I guess.. But I don't see why not be more accurate for more overall control and less undertainty.

Correct

[juliacheh]

minuet doesn't mean non-existent.. 2-3 cups adds up just as anything else bro! To each their own I guess.. But I don't see why not be more accurate for more overall control and less undertainty.

And also some people eat substantially more than 2-3 cups of veggies per day...

[tagun]

And also some people eat substantially more than 2-3 cups of veggies per day...

This lol, especially on a diet when cravings are high and people try to suppress them by loading up on veggies.

In any case, as people have said it before me, on a contest prep the only thing you have ABSOLUTE control over is your diet. You can't train so that you build muscle, improve weaknesses, you can't change your genetic makeup etc. The only thing you can control is your diet and every dedicated bodybuilder would control it to the last 0.1 kcal. Even if it weren't true that these things can add up or cause inconsistencies, why wouldn't you count even the smallest things like gum, artificial sweeteners, veggies etc.? You can do it easily, so why not?

I want this **** so bad, so I'm willing to do whatever it takes. Sadly there's very little I can control/change to better my physique (can't change when/how I started training, can't change muscle shape, can't change my joint size, height, body type, metabolism, the quantity of testosterone in my body etc. etc.) but that in itself is the biggest reason to TOTALLY control those few things that I actually can. And diet is one of them.

[MAX.MAREK]

minuet doesn't mean non-existent.. 2-3 cups adds up just as anything else bro! To each their own I guess.. But I don't see why not be more accurate for more overall control and less undertainty.

well for many that count em, its cool cause it works for them. but for some of us, it makes no difference. they are just 'fillers'. i never try to over eat em to begin with. just enough...ya know? but for those that eat a truck load, counting should probably implemented.

[Rsardinia]

You count everything that has calories. It may not be much in a day, but over the course of a week or an entire prep it adds up. You just make sure you keep your fiber intake consistent.

[areya2005]

Great replies, guys. Glad I could get so much input.

[bwelch1985]

Here's the take home message OP: Look at the best conditioned guys ITT....they're all natural pro's and they ALL COUNT THEIR VEGGIES! Coincidence? I think not.

[MarkVI]

Prep yes, the rest of the time...no, but it does stay consistent.

[fitlover]

I don't in the very beginning, so long as I'm losing fat at a good pace. As I start getting more dialed in I definitely start counting and weighing everything.

[MAX.MAREK]

I don't in the very beginning, so long as I'm losing fat at a good pace. As I start getting more dialed in I definitely start counting and weighing everything.

^perfect. what i do pretty much during prep. if im continually dropping, BUT staying filled out, i dont stress on it. its not about gettin to the absolutely lowest weight you can possibly go to. thats just stupid. you get to the point where you look the best. sometimes that requires more cal intake. ive learned the hard way at times about dropping too many cals.

[Ikatsu]

well for many that count em, its cool cause it works for them. but for some of us, it makes no difference. they are just 'fillers'. i never try to over eat em to begin with. just enough...ya know? but for those that eat a truck load, counting should probably implemented.

Maybe your conditioning would improve to the level of some of the guys in this thread if you started counting them as well. Just a suggestion!

[MAX.MAREK]

Maybe your conditioning would improve to the level of some of the guys in this thread if you started counting them as well. Just a suggestion!

dont need to worry about that part till next april. ill be bigger then most of 'these guys' u talk about ;) i dont compete in the 160-170's lol 227 @ 8-9%right now, and aiming for 240 by next feb/april. all a learning experience each time, and im sure many dont nail it correctly in their first few attempts. i dont eat many veggies in the final 1-2wks of a contest. no need at that point for 'fillers'. plus if u knew anything about prep, most of the 'conditioning' comes in the final week, which can make u or break u. ive depleted too hard a few times, which didnt allow me to fill out enough during carbup. but like i said, all a learning experience.

[areya2005]

dont need to worry about that part till next april. ill be bigger then most of 'these guys' u talk about ;) i dont compete in the 160-170's lol 227 @ 8-9%right now, and aiming for 240 by next feb/april. all a learning experience each time, and im sure many dont nail it correctly in their first few attempts. i dont eat many veggies in the final 1-2wks of a contest. no need at that point for 'fillers'. plus if u knew anything about prep, most of the 'conditioning' comes in the final week, which can make u or break u. ive depleted too hard a few times, which didnt allow me to fill out enough during carbup. but like i said, all a learning experience.

I take offense to that!!! Just playin....I kind of just cant wait to get this competition out of the way and grow. I've somehow, someway, gotten stronger on this prep, and I know if I reverse properly, I'll be a monster.

Kind of a topic change, but eff it, I made the thread..........I looked over your BodySpace. You've made insane gains through the years and progressed amazingly, looking better at each show. I'm looking to emulate your progress.

[MAX.MAREK]

I am by NO means an expert or master when it comes to prep. That is a science i am lookin forward to gettin better at. I think i have a strong grasp on gaining quality size, but when it comes to the final stages of prep, i have big gaps ineed to fill. But that is why i got a coach in november. So we are building till next year, then see what needs to happen when we prep for shows in july and august of '12.

[MAX.MAREK]

I take offense to that!!! Just playin....I kind of just cant wait to get this competition out of the way and grow. I've somehow, someway, gotten stronger on this prep, and I know if I reverse properly, I'll be a monster.

Kind of a topic change, but eff it, I made the thread..........I looked over your BodySpace. You've made insane gains through the years and progressed amazingly, looking better at each show. I'm looking to emulate your progress.

Haha all in good fun :) its not how huge you are, but what quality you come in.

You know, i dont doubt that many gain or retain strength while prepping. I retain good amount. Funnyhow that works haha...

Thanks man. Still building, little by little. Eating has been the key. Eating, and eating alot! Haha

[str8flexed]

dont need to worry about that part till next april. ill be bigger then most of 'these guys' u talk about ;) i dont compete in the 160-170's lol 227 @ 8-9%right now, and aiming for 240 by next feb/april. all a learning experience each time, and im sure many dont nail it correctly in their first few attempts. i dont eat many veggies in the final 1-2wks of a contest. no need at that point for 'fillers'. plus if u knew anything about prep, most of the 'conditioning' comes in the final week, which can make u or break u. ive depleted too hard a few times, which didnt allow me to fill out enough during carbup. but like i said, all a learning experience.

I see

[lth]

dont need to worry about that part till next april. ill be bigger then most of 'these guys' u talk about ;) i dont compete in the 160-170's lol 227 @ 8-9%right now, and aiming for 240 by next feb/april. all a learning experience each time, and im sure many dont nail it correctly in their first few attempts. i dont eat many veggies in the final 1-2wks of a contest. no need at that point for 'fillers'. plus if u knew anything about prep, most of the 'conditioning' comes in the final week, which can make u or break u. ive depleted too hard a few times, which didnt allow me to fill out enough during carbup. but like i said, all a learning experience.

Lol i dont understand the point to this, i'm 230 right now and plan to compete at around 210 to 215 next year...so since i'm in that weight range that means I don't need to count veggies? lol. I'm lost. Physics man, energy in vs energy out.

There's quite a few bodybuilders lol who are pretty nasty at 160-170, lets see...kevin english won his pro card as a middleweight. Then you have guys like berto and others who post here who compete in that range and look 190. Conditioning comes throughout prep, if a guy looks drastically better after peak week its because he was not diced and used a ton of diuretics or some other extreme method.

[devo09]

2 things

1. Max Marek has never really been in shape on stage, look up his stage photos. Not even respectable `stage condition`, so his arguement that he competes heavier is stupid because he competes heavier than he should
2. The whole arguement `if you`re consistent it doesn`t matter` is stupid because that can be applied to ANYTHING......Ya know, I eat the same breakfast every morning so I might as well not count it either because I`m consistent....no?

[MAX.MAREK]

Apparently u didnt see my "all in good fun statement"....Read posts 40 and 41.

[lth]

That doesn't mean the comment wasn't ignorant though lol.

[juliacheh]

It's funny really, not the first time this topic is coming up. I am having a deja vu.

And it's always Max vs. natty competitors including pro bodybuilders who achieved retarded conditioning on stage. Also uncontrolled cheat meals v. controlled refeeds.

Disclaimer - not bashing anybody and it's not a matter of being on anyone's side.

I didn't compete now but on this cut I counted everything and it got me leaner than I ever planned on getting in the first place. Why did I count everything? I looked at the guys who achieved retarded conditioning without PEDs and thought - they are doing it right, I must do the same things that they are doing :).

[Big.Jazayrli]

2. The whole arguement `if you`re consistent it doesn`t matter` is stupid because that can be applied to ANYTHING......Ya know, I eat the same breakfast every morning so I might as well not count it either because I`m consistent....no?

if you eat the EXACT same breakfast every day and adjust your macros for the rest of the day and don't count breakfast.. while eventually you will be eating 1k cals per day instead of 1.5k for not counting your breakfast then yes, you could get away with it.

its simple in vs. out

if you don't count something, so long as you consume it every day you'll end up adjusting everything else to make it fit indirectly.

[str8flexed]

if you eat the EXACT same breakfast every day and adjust your macros for the rest of the day and don't count breakfast.. while eventually you will be eating 1k cals per day instead of 1.5k for not counting your breakfast then yes, you could get away with it.

its simple in vs. out

if you don't count something, so long as you consume it every day you'll end up adjusting everything else to make it fit indirectly.

possibly but when you are eating something as 'unrestricted' you aren't being consistent with it by nature really

[Big.Jazayrli]

possibly but when you are eating something as 'unrestricted' you aren't being consistent with it by nature really

right but unrestricted is by definition totally different to consistent

I was just making a counterpoint to his counterpoint ;)

Unrestricted anything is bad (with the exception of H2O I suppose)

[ErickStevens]

2 things

1. Max Marek has never really been in shape on stage, look up his stage photos. Not even respectable `stage condition`, so his arguement that he competes heavier is stupid because he competes heavier than he should


Reps on recharge.

[MAX.MAREK]

funny how the the Scivation guys here n there are saying "count ur veggies." lol

umm didnt the fearless president of scivation Marc say otherwise?? "eat as much as you want.."

N-G8rCjFiBI

so what is it? count or not to count?

[fitlover]

In that same respect though, I've seen people who looked like jack sh*t on stage, despite counting every tenth of a calorie.

IMO, if you're obviously not getting the conditioning you want I would say that veggies would be the least of your worries unless you're eating 5 lbs. of them a day, and you should probably take a look at the rest of your diet/training.

About halfway out yes, I think you should be counting your veggies. A "couple" cups of broccoli can add up to at least another 150-200 calories extra. However, I see no reason to weigh out the greens when you're 16 weeks out from a competition, so long as the fat is coming off and you're making progress.

But if someone is having iceburg lettuce and spinach and they aren't counting it, and they are still not well-conditioned by the time their contest rolls around, I would say it was due to the rest of their diet and training that didn't get them in proper condition, not the negligible calories from a couple celery sticks.

*shrug*

[str8flexed]

funny how the the Scivation guys here n there are saying "count ur veggies." lol

umm didnt the fearless president of scivation Marc say otherwise?? "eat as much as you want.."

N-G8rCjFiBI

so what is it? count or not to count?

Um, just because marc is a friend and was president of scivation, doesn't mean we agree on everything. stop deflecting

[MAX.MAREK]

Um, just because marc is a friend and was president of scivation, doesn't mean we agree on everything. stop deflecting

not saying to agree with him. but why would he say "eat as much as you want"? marc has great conditioning, and not counting veggies seems to work for him, as it does for others. so as stated above, if your not losing weight, veggies are probably not the main issue..that is all im trying to get at. AND! ill be open minded about this...next time i prep, which will be mid next year, ill try the "count everything" method. it wont hurt to try, and might help me do better as some of you have stated. who knows!

[tagun]

not saying to agree with him. but why would he say "eat as much as you want"? marc has great conditioning, and not counting veggies seems to work for him, as it does for others. so as stated above, if your not losing weight, veggies are probably not the main issue..that is all im trying to get at. AND! ill be open minded about this...next time i prep, which will be mid next year, ill try the "count everything" method. it wont hurt to try, and might help me do better as some of you have stated. who knows!

There's stuff you can get away with and then there's being optimal. Just because something won't ruin you completely it doesn't mean it's as optimal as possible. And as far as I know bodybuilders strive to be as perfect as they can be with things that are controllable. As said before diet is one of the few things a bodybuilder has control over and it would seem only reasonable to be as meticulous as you can be with your diet.

Counting every single gram of food is "being 100%".
Counting every single gram of food BUT a few foods with very low kcal value is "being 95%" or at least 99.9% - in essence you didn't do everything you could have done.

[MAX.MAREK]

There's stuff you can get away with and then there's being optimal. Just because something won't ruin you completely it doesn't mean it's as optimal as possible. And as far as I know bodybuilders strive to be as perfect as they can be with things that are controllable. As said before diet is one of the few things a bodybuilder has control over and it would seem only reasonable to be as meticulous as you can be with your diet.

Counting every single gram of food is "being 100%".
Counting every single gram of food BUT a few foods with very low kcal value is "being 95%" or at least 99.9% - in essence you didn't do everything you could have done.

good points :) very.

[tagun]

good points :) very.

Wow, not the response I was expecting.

Thanks for being so mature!

[lth]

In that same respect though, I've seen people who looked like jack sh*t on stage, despite counting every tenth of a calorie.

IMO, if you're obviously not getting the conditioning you want I would say that veggies would be the least of your worries unless you're eating 5 lbs. of them a day, and you should probably take a look at the rest of your diet/training.

About halfway out yes, I think you should be counting your veggies. A "couple" cups of broccoli can add up to at least another 150-200 calories extra. However, I see no reason to weigh out the greens when you're 16 weeks out from a competition, so long as the fat is coming off and you're making progress.

But if someone is having iceburg lettuce and spinach and they aren't counting it, and they are still not well-conditioned by the time their contest rolls around, I would say it was due to the rest of their diet and training that didn't get them in proper condition, not the negligible calories from a couple celery sticks.

*shrug*

Honestly...if you're dieting for a comp and don't have enough discipline to count the calories in however many cups of veggies you eat a day, that says alot already. It's not that hard to count calories in vegetables of all things, and over a period of time...16 weeks or what have you it DOES add up and it could be that little deciding factor in a close call on stage. It won't make an insane difference but it will to a degree. Food is food, calories are calories....if someone is going to do a comp and can't make themselves do something that easy, then you can almost count on that person being out of shape on stage due to having a half assed attitude. Some may not and get in great shape from an awesome metabolism....but i'd rather be spot on and have no regrets down the line.

[Basil08]

good points :) very.

Reps on a mature reply. I read one of the posters flat out criticize your stage condition - where most would lash out with personal insults you took it as constructive criticism.

[MAX.MAREK]

Reps on a mature reply. I read one of the posters flat out criticize your stage condition - where most would lash out with personal insults you took it as constructive criticism.

Well i could care less, its all good. i understand bodybuilding is a sport that you need to understand that NOT EVERYONE is gonna like your physique; there's always gonna be something wrong with it in many eyes. all you can do it be the best for yourself. but atleast i can put my photos up on bodyspace on not care about being judged, unlike some ;) i can handle criticism :) just keep me fueled for when i show a new physique next year bro. and i could careless what I USED to look like. that's not me anymore ya know. i'm learning more n more each day. and i feel i looked pretty good in May of '10. made first call outs in light-heavies in a class of 15-20 competitors. that was a goal and achievement on its own for myself. but if i could do anything different, it would totally be my final week prep. that's what killed me...but its all a learning experience :)

[Basil08]

Well i could care less, its all good. i understand bodybuilding is a sport that you need to understand that NOT EVERYONE is gonna like your physique; there's always gonna be something wrong with it in many eyes. all you can do it be the best for yourself. but atleast i can put my photos up on bodyspace on not care about being judged, unlike some ;) i can handle criticism :) just keep me fueled for when i show a new physique next year bro. and i could careless what I USED to look like. that's not me anymore ya know. i'm learning more n more each day. and i feel i looked pretty good in May of '10. made first call outs in light-heavies in a class of 15-20 competitors. that was a goal and achievement on its own for myself. but if i could do anything different, it would totally be my final week prep. that's what killed me...but its all a learning experience :)

but... That implies that you do care. I think you mean you "couldn't care less"

EDIT: just being a smart ass.

[MAX.MAREK]

but... That implies that you do care. I think you mean you "couldn't care less"

EDIT: just being a smart ass.

haha got me! damn spelling.