Genetics VS Hard training

[Terminator84]

Many bodybuilders have an extremely developed body parts due to their superior genetics in some bodyparts, but some other muscles don't seem to be as superior as these genetically developed muscles, let's take the current Mr Olmpia as an example:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Uvy2Azj8TMY/TEDSjsxZo2I/AAAAAAAACtQ/aKmd-CUtYeA/s640/_H4X3916_AEHFWAGCCA.jpg

It's obvious that Jay is genetically gifted considering his huge delts, his traps, his chest, they all seemed to be superior, but its also obvious that he worked hard on his arms to make them matched to his delts, also he back was'nt as great as his delts, therefore I think he has great genetics considering delts, chest, legs, but he worked hard on the other parts of his body, and he did it, he made his body more balanced. I saw him training with a partner preparing for 2010 Mr O, his partner said Jay does not need a heavy weight training on his legs, they simply did'nt need that.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee216/aopromo/promuscle-report-2008/mini-2008-ny-pro-kai-greene.jpg


Another analysis of Kay greene, its clear that he had amazing arms along with his quads and hamstrings, but he worked hard to bring his calves, chest, delts, back, to be improved to the same level he had already in his arms. I see many comparisons between Coleman and Greene considering the massive amount of muscles they have, but I think Kai has smaller bones with totally different structure.

http://shots.ikbis.com/image/31724/large/RC174.jpg

Ronnie is the perfect representitive for the word " Genetic freak " you can see him with a big frame, huge muscle bellies that you don't see with any other athlete, I never saw him looked flat anywhere in his physique, you can see Kai a little flat with his chest, also Jay sometimes looked flat with his arms. Coleman never looked flat, ofcourse he had drawbacks with his abs ( they looked great prior 1996 ) and he had a problem with calves and triceps ( they looked decent at his peak .. but no way closer to his top body parts ).

[Loctus]

Genetics>Training

Proof: Misc's Gzus. Natty. Drinks like a fish, trains once in a while, eats whatever he wants.

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/09/12/12317882/gallerypic/2539711.gif

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2010/02/28/12317882/gallerypic/1cfl8mblrYFQdvpb3WMuo7mPnjgsXp1752e.jpeg


age 16:
http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/06/19/12317882/gallerypic/2142951e.jpg

edit: Oh, and his legs are >>> his upperbody

[Terminator84]

Genetics>Training

Proof: Misc's Gzus. Natty. Drinks like a fish, trains once in a while, eats whatever he wants.

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/09/12/12317882/gallerypic/2539711.gif

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2010/02/28/12317882/gallerypic/1cfl8mblrYFQdvpb3WMuo7mPnjgsXp1752e.jpeg


age 16:
http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/06/19/12317882/gallerypic/2142951e.jpg

edit: Oh, and his legs are >>> his upperbody

Ofcourse if someone who's not genetically gifted will suffer a lot in training, but even top pros with good genetics ( examples above ) suffered also from weak parts they tried to train hard to make them decent.

[justinnnnn]

Work ethic > Genetics

[Loctus]

btw kai actually had small arms as a natty

[RC2008]

Work ethic > Genetics

This is true. But no one ever won a competition because they did more sets in the gym. If you came in looking like Ronnie Coleman but never trained a day in your life (lol), you'd win anyway. Not only that, you could ride on the coat tails of your genetics all day long, and look like a harder worker than the guy who is ten times smaller, and works ten times harder than you do.

[AsnLvr]

This is true. But no one ever won a competition because they did more sets in the gym. If you came in looking like Ronnie Coleman but never trained a day in your life (lol), you'd win anyway.

Display of strong logic there. How are you going to look like Ronnie if you never trained?

[AsnLvr]

Genetics is way overrated.

[asiangod1991]

i have very vry small calves and i think it's true that genetic>hard working

i train them like seated cal rai 315s and never get bigger or stronger.

[OtisBDriftwood]

Display of strong logic there. How are you going to look like Ronnie if you never trained?

Hypothetically, you phaggot!

[AsnLvr]

Hypothetically, you phaggot!

It's dumb because it's not possible for anyone to look like Ronnie without training.

[AsnLvr]

u tried synthol?

Do you even lift?

[SeanRector]

That's how you know your dealing with someone with limited intelligence.

When they reply with "that's dumb"



Genetics>work ethic


The op's post made no sense though.

[asiangod1991]

u tried synthol?

no

i'm not even plan to take steroids too.

[SeanRector]

Mods do an IP.check on asiangod and syntholbis its Asians second troll account

Ban em

[asiangod1991]

Mods do an IP.check on asiangod and syntholbis its Asians second troll account

Ban em

They are 2 people laughing at you now

[RC2008]

Display of strong logic there. How are you going to look like Ronnie if you never trained?

That's exactly why I said "lol". My point is no one cares how hard you work.

[Penile_Dementia]

It's a mix of things. Jay's arms may not be as gifted as his delts, but they are VERY well set up genetically. I think they were a bit bigger a few years ago as well. On a truly top pro a "lagging" bodypart may still be one with exceptional insertions/muscle fibres, just not AS much as his best/most easily responsive parts.

Jay's back also became one if the thickest in the world by 2004-2006 (not quite as large these days) but the actual muscle shape/separations were always poor. It's a mix of supreme genetic gift (to be able to be bigger than almost anyone elses) and huge genetic flaw in one.

Kai's traps are completely unexceptional in the entire pro ranks and even compared to many amateurs. I would say that is not a gifted bodypart of his, at least in terms of mass potential. The shape is fine but the muscles are quite short. On the other hand when he's full his chest can out arguably outthicken the best in the world even if it has a tendency to be flat.

I don't think most pros lagging bodyparts eventually being brought up in balance is an example of genetics vs hard training. It's an example of somewhat different relative genetic and hard training balances, sure.

[INMATEaco]

in on genetics thread

[asiangod1991]

edit*

nope i think 3 or 4

may be god is also laughing either mod is laughing so hard to.

[asiangod1991]

u all natural?

my arms would be bigger if i take steroids or synthol.

[eymen23]

This is no different to being at school taking a test.

Some kids get the best marks with the same/less work than anyone else, simple as that. Some people have better memory, better understanding and whatever else that makes them do well. Now if 'smart' kid does no work whatsoever he's gonna do worse than the kid who tries hard but isn't as 'smart' naturally. However, when 'smart' kid puts the same amount of effort in.... not so 'smart' kid is getting blown out the water.

So if Ronnie Coleman never stepped foot in the gym, Jay would of always been the better bodybuilder. But Ronnie did step in the gym...

[punkt]

Genetics>Training

Proof: Misc's Gzus. Natty. Drinks like a fish, trains once in a while, eats whatever he wants.

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/09/12/12317882/gallerypic/2539711.gif

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2010/02/28/12317882/gallerypic/1cfl8mblrYFQdvpb3WMuo7mPnjgsXp1752e.jpeg


age 16:
http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/06/19/12317882/gallerypic/2142951e.jpg

edit: Oh, and his legs are >>> his upperbody

Yeah he is natural.........



























wait wut?

[NickM205]

LOL @ hard training


gyms across the world are full of bro's who train like lunatics and take sh!tloads of gear, and who will never sniff a pro stage

[gabswithabs]

This is no different to being at school taking a test.

Some kids get the best marks with the same/less work than anyone else, simple as that. Some people have better memory, better understanding and whatever else that makes them do well. Now if 'smart' kid does no work whatsoever he's gonna do worse than the kid who tries hard but isn't as 'smart' naturally. However, when 'smart' kid puts the same amount of effort in.... not so 'smart' kid is getting blown out the water.

So if Ronnie Coleman never stepped foot in the gym, Jay would of always been the better bodybuilder. But Ronnie did step in the gym...

I like this post! Repped

[Gorky88]

Genetics>hard work

My younger cousin and I started at the same time. He drinks all the time, eats sh/tty but also workouts just fine. He s bigger and leaner than me. I have a good diet year around and rarely I skip going to the gym yet I can't go below %10 bodyfat or have any definition in my muscles. Yes, I am improving every year due to my hardwork but I have pretty bad genetics. Sometimes, it just makes me depressed seeing other ripped, bigger guys but I will just continue doing what I love.

[Terminator84]

they r on the juice, u r not. u win later in life when their kidneys fail and have heart attacks.

Heart attacks might be related to steroids ( although they're not very common ) the common thing is kidney failure but it's not a steroids thing, its simply because of crazy amounts of protein intake.

[chad643]

genetics win, me and my friend are both around 160 yet my friend is so much biggerand is so much more cut then me its over even funny and he rarely eats..and when he does its unhealthy pisses me off.

[Supercows]

Genetics>Training

Proof: Misc's Gzus. Natty. Drinks like a fish, trains once in a while, eats whatever he wants.

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/09/12/12317882/gallerypic/2539711.gif

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2010/02/28/12317882/gallerypic/1cfl8mblrYFQdvpb3WMuo7mPnjgsXp1752e.jpeg


age 16:
http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/06/19/12317882/gallerypic/2142951e.jpg

edit: Oh, and his legs are >>> his upperbody

ya you are a fool for believing that one.... jokes on u bro

[Aus4484]

LOL @ hard training


gyms across the world are full of bro's who train like lunatics and take sh!tloads of gear, and who will never sniff a pro stage
Exactly. And while there maybe some pros with better genetics than others, like Coleman (and wheeler and dillett for how they trained) there isn't an Ifbb pro with really bad genetics. Not even Kenny jones :/

[milkman04]

LOL @ hard training


gyms across the world are full of bro's who train like lunatics and take sh!tloads of gear, and who will never sniff a pro stage

So I guess the only way to know if you have what it takes to be a pro is to try a cycle and see your response?

[evaneisenstein]

too be mr o, or even stand on the o stage you need a perfect combo of training nutrition gear and genetics.... YOU NEED ALL FOUR FACTORS it doesnt really matter at what percentage you have of each cause if your missing any of them your ****ed....

people on this board trash branch's genetics all the time, well go pound all of the gear he does and train like him and eat like him and see what happens, i bet you wont look half as good....

if your standing on the olympia stage you have FANTASTIC genetics (some obviously better than others) but genetics alone arent gonna get you to the stage

i red an article some years back called what it takes to be an olympia contender and the major points were

1) 10 years of hard ass work in the gym, never missing schedule workouts
2) consistantly taking in the poper calories
3) good gear, a lot of gear, and staying on all the time
4) genetics

point of the story? anybody of people can juice eat and train, not everybodys born to be a bodybuilder...

and to people arguing about that 16 year old kid being natural....its pretty easy to be ripped to shreds when your all of about 130 pounds

[Zigurd]

Genetics are the road you are given and hard work is your vehicle to travel that road to your destiny. If you genetics are good the road is easy and downhill, if they are bad you have an uphill travel.

If you work hard your vehicle will go faster but the road affects how much you can travel despite your hard work.

If you want to be a GOAT in anything in life, both aspects must be present, genetics and hard work. But I will give hard work this, you can achieve a lot with poor genetics and great hard work. But you will achieve nothing with good genetics and no work.

[Devils]

Lets face it, it's drugs and genetics.

Most pro's have freaking bodyparts because they've always had them.

I hardly work my delts directly, I smash my legs trying to get size, yet still delts > quads.

Some of us all have those bodyparts that will grow just looking at a dumbbell, imagine if every bodypart was like that, that's genetics and no amount of hard work will overcome it.

[NickM205]

So I guess the only way to know if you have what it takes to be a pro is to try a cycle and see your response?

pretty much...

People seem to think Pro's are just willing to take the risks and go the extra mile on the chemical side, and thats why they are pro's and joes and gym rats are not...

In your dreams lol. If that helps people sleep at night, then believe that if you want to.

It always amazes me the lack of gear knowledge in here sometimes for a group of ppl that follow the IFBB apparently.

Its not just response to AAS (growth), its whether or not you can tolerate what is required. You might try to cruise (not come off, the opposite of a cycle where there is a start and finish) for 2 years to see what happens and blow the F up and you STILL arent winning **** lol

Some people just cant even handle high doses, never mind the response part of it...

I know guys who would need to be like 180lbs to get on a stage shredded, but meantime are dosing 1g+ on test, w/ growth and slin...they are like 40+ pounds short of getting on a pro stage lol

Its really a crap shoot guys, either you were born with the combo that can make an IFBB pro, or you're not.

There is no f'n "hard training" thats gonna get you in an IFBB contest.

[valiantmiller16]

Genetics>Training

Proof: Misc's Gzus. Natty. Drinks like a fish, trains once in a while, eats whatever he wants.

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/09/12/12317882/gallerypic/2539711.gif

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2010/02/28/12317882/gallerypic/1cfl8mblrYFQdvpb3WMuo7mPnjgsXp1752e.jpeg


age 16:
http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2008/06/19/12317882/gallerypic/2142951e.jpg

edit: Oh, and his legs are >>> his upperbody

dude is like 170 pounds though genetic potential determines how big one can get not what they start of like.

[sean061788]

hard work can beat genetics when genetics dont work hard

[thebankcard]

genetics beat hard work every time

hard work
http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0023/7D/AB/7DAB1AD56B8AD2C3457B71_Large.jpg

genetics
http://anabolic-steroids.blogspot.com/Dexter-Jackson-4.jpg

Genova probably trains just as hard as some as these guys and little to show for it.

[silentvoice]

I am certain that lab gene mutation does exist.

[SUPER_MANLET]

Exactly. And while there maybe some pros with better genetics than others, like Coleman (and wheeler and dillett for how they trained) there isn't an Ifbb pro with really bad genetics. Not even Kenny jones :/

why they say Dorian Yates had bad genetics?

[ProWrestleFan]

Who cares? Get big or die tryin...

[Terminator84]

why they say Dorian Yates had bad genetics?

He had great genetics considering his back, legs, and delts. But extremely bad genetics for his biceps and triceps, they never match the other " developed " parts.

[TripleThreatMan]

To be at the top level of any sport you need a mixture of genetics, great work ethic, passion and proper guidance. When it comes to bodybuilding at the highest level it than becomes all about the little things like nutrition and, let's be honest, proper drug administration.

Genetics will only get you so far, same with hard training...to stand with the best you have to have it all.

[asto_86]

Drug Cocktail>Genetics>Hard Work>Diet

[asbrus]

ya you are a fool for believing that one.... Jokes on u bro

n0thing l0ctus says makes sense. The guy al0ng with shaun are the tw0 dumbest p0sters 0n this site wh0 spend m0st 0f their time in the misc.

[BEhave]

dude is like 170 pounds though genetic potential determines how big one can get not what they start of like.

He's actually like over 200lbs. He's bigger now too I believe

[Tough92]

Drug Cocktail>Genetics>Hard Work>Diet

this looks about right

[Outlined]

Bb:

Drugs
Genetics for responding
Genetrics for size shape etc
Training, closely followed or maybe equaled by Diet

I really dont see how you can believe genetics are secondary to training. There are so many examples where gifted guys just grow with ****ty form and diet

[RC2008]

too be mr o, or even stand on the o stage you need a perfect combo of training nutrition gear and genetics.... YOU NEED ALL FOUR FACTORS it doesnt really matter at what percentage you have of each cause if your missing any of them your ****ed....

people on this board trash branch's genetics all the time, well go pound all of the gear he does and train like him and eat like him and see what happens, i bet you wont look half as good....

if your standing on the olympia stage you have FANTASTIC genetics (some obviously better than others) but genetics alone arent gonna get you to the stage

i red an article some years back called what it takes to be an olympia contender and the major points were

1) 10 years of hard ass work in the gym, never missing schedule workouts
2) consistantly taking in the poper calories
3) good gear, a lot of gear, and staying on all the time
4) genetics

point of the story? anybody of people can juice eat and train, not everybodys born to be a bodybuilder...

and to people arguing about that 16 year old kid being natural....its pretty easy to be ripped to shreds when your all of about 130 pounds

With the magic that is insulin, you can now "blow up from within" in half the time. 4 years isn't such a bad timeframe. Rofl.

Also I hope you're not calling that guy in the avi small. those are old pics, he's like 210lbs at 6ft 2 and he has been lifting like a decade from what I know of him. When you train naturally, it's not a walk in the park as you put it to be that shredded at 170lbs for everyone (let's say 5'8). You still need to follow the same protocols a pro does minus the drugs.

[jd2967]

It's so easy to say simply because somebody has a good bodypart or a bad bodypart that it's good genetics or a lack thereof. I think people jump on that bandwagon far too often, whether they're defending somebody they're a fan of or trying to make excuses for themselves. The ****ty part is you can neither prove nor disprove it, so people ALWAYS go back to genetics as the reason for somebody success or failure (large or small) if no other line of reasoning works.

[biglaps]

Without the genetics, you can put in the work, take **** load of drugs and still won't get anywhere near pro standard, I have seen it for years, there are guys who dedicate there life to training to be a elite body builder, spend 15 years bodybuilding, never work, take steroids and keep taking them never coming off, eat like a pro, and they struggle to compete at a high amateur level. Before they know it there 40 years old and IMO wasted there life trying to achieve something that was out of reach from day One. A good friend is 46yrs just came 6th in the nabba worlds which is great achievement but he will never get a pro card or close to it, he is missing only one thing and that's the great genetics needed to be a pro.

[krodhill]

It's dumb because it's not possible for anyone to look like Ronnie without training.

i agree hard training is a essential, but everybody cant be like jay cutler or arnold some people are superior in different muscle categorys, thats why theirs try outs for the nfl lol.

[stealth_swimmer]

Display of strong logic there. How are you going to look like Ronnie if you never trained?

Actually, the logic checks out. Whether it's empirically realistic or likely to happen is a completely different matter, which goes to show you don't really know what logic is, dumbass...

[stealth_swimmer]

Lets face it, it's drugs and genetics.

Most pro's have freaking bodyparts because they've always had them.

I hardly work my delts directly, I smash my legs trying to get size, yet still delts > quads.

Some of us all have those bodyparts that will grow just looking at a dumbbell, imagine if every bodypart was like that, that's genetics and no amount of hard work will overcome it.

x2. Obviously if you don't train, then you'll never know your genetic potential. So, there exists a range of possibilities with hard work and bad genetics ranging from a good result (being built) or a bad result(not looking too great), and the same goes for not so hard work but with good genetics - but at the pro level they all put in work, so genetics is probably the limiting factor for them.

[TNBT89]

Without great genetics no one can be Mr O, but even without great genetics you can go far in bodybuilding thanks to hard work.

[stealth_swimmer]

Without great genetics no one can be Mr O, but even without great genetics you can go far in bodybuilding thanks to hard work.

If you build a great physique, then obviously you had the genetics for it...genetics determines what's possible for you. It determines all sorts of stuff like your "starting point"(how you look untrained, at a given level of food intake), how well you respond to training, how much training you can handle without overtraining, what your max potential is, etc. Most people are not gonna look awesome if they don't do any exercise whatsoever. Those folks are a very small minority of the population *but* most people who work for it are able to make improvements.

[lUnknown]

Without the genetics, you can put in the work, take **** load of drugs and still won't get anywhere near pro standard, I have seen it for years, there are guys who dedicate there life to training to be a elite body builder, spend 15 years bodybuilding, never work, take steroids and keep taking them never coming off, eat like a pro, and they struggle to compete at a high amateur level. Before they know it there 40 years old and IMO wasted there life trying to achieve something that was out of reach from day One. A good friend is 46yrs just came 6th in the nabba worlds which is great achievement but he will never get a pro card or close to it, he is missing only one thing and that's the great genetics needed to be a pro.

this.