Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[Emma-Leigh]

IF (Intermittent Fasting) is a novel approach to dieting / training created by Martin Berkhan (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/member.php?u=2420901).
You can learn more about this approach, and the man himself at his blog, Lean Gains (http://www.leangains.com/).

The original thread by Martin can be found here: Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part One (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3587831).

As board policy states that threads are closed when they reach 10,000... The saga continues here as PART TWO.

[vanessaromeo]

how awesome is that, that IF has created such great conversation :-)

i personally feel lucky & blessed to have found Martin's site. it's freed me from the obsession of the 7 meals a day debauchery, and i feel soooo much better about food in general.
i was about THIS close to developing an eating disorder..being petrified of food.
thanks to IF, IM SO MUCH HAPPIER

[PrettyReckless]

Thanks for making the thread, Emma-Leigh! :)

After just starting IF, I already lost a bit of that stubborn fat (though that's not to say it's entirely attributed to IF) - the first few days you are going to go hungry if you're used to 6 meals a day. I've only adjusted now. I take green tea or coffee to keep the hunger pangs away, and it's helped boost my energy in my workouts as well.

[wkjeep]

im on my second day of IF and im excited to see how this progresses!

[Resolutioner]

In on this, started on Friday!

[determined4000]

We should have 1 Rule

Before posting/asking questions, at least visit the LeanGains site

[sportyaccordy]

First page

Gonna IF my cut in March

[foodpr0n]

So to make some references for people

READ www.leangains.com BEFORE YOU ASK ALREADY ANSWERED QUESTIONS (NEARLY ALL HAVE BEEN ANSWERED)

IMPORTANT READS;

-The LeanGains Guide (http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html)
-Top Ten Fasting Myths Debunked (http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html)
-Supplements you might actually find useful (http://www.leangains.com/2010/01/supplements-you-might-actually-find_09.html)
-Brief Primer on popular approaches to IF (http://www.leangains.com/2008/06/brief-primer-on-popular-approaches-to.html)
-More on What is IF?, How to implement it etc.. (http://avidityfitness.net/2008/01/12/interview-martin-berkhan/)
-Intermitted Fasting, Set-Point and Leptin (http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/intermittent-fasting-set-point-and.html)
-Intermittent Fasting and Stubborn Body Fat (http://www.leangains.com/2010/06/intermittent-fasting-and-stubborn-body.html)
-Scorch Through your Fat-loss plateau (http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/scorch-through-your-fat-loss-plateau.html)
-Maintaining Low Body fat (http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/maintaining-low-body-fat.html)
-How to look awesome everyday (http://www.leangains.com/2010/01/how-to-look-awesome-every-day.html)
-The Secret Benefit of being lean (http://www.leangains.com/2010/03/secret-benefit-of-being-lean.html)
-The truth about alcohol, fat loss and muscle (http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html)
-Cheat day strategies for a hedonist (http://www.leangains.com/2010/11/cheat-day-strategies-for-hedonist.html)


And much more on the site (leangains.com)

[kels_88]

After 1 month of eating IF style and a week of training using Martin's recommendations from leangains.com, I have really come to enjoy this approach to training and I can really understand how easily it can turn into a lifestyle, as it has for Martin and at least several individuals that I have seen on this board.

Every time I see a thread on the forum about people constantly feeling hungry or not being able to get full, I really want to give them a gentle push towards the IF approach. I eat 2 large meals a day and 1 or two substantial snacks in between, as that is what fits my lifestyle. The feeling of shoveling down 900+ calories of food in a sitting is amazing!

I look forward to being able to share my results in coming months, and learning/helping others learn about the Intermittent Fasting approach to training, dieting, bulking, and living!

[vanessaromeo]

we should have 1 rule

before posting/asking questions, at least visit the leangains site

agreed!!!

[.aeterna]

IF rocks and his latest article had this quote that has me reeling :D:

------

But in order to prevent that this tendency resurfaces, you must direct your attention, obsession plainly speaking, into something else. A hobby. Preferably something productive or at least something you enjoy doing. Something you can lose hours doing.

However, I also have one completely different topic that will capture my attention at any given time-period. Right now I am completely gung-ho about Starcraft 2 and everything about it. I’ll read hours of threads at the TeamLiquid forum when I can. Starcraft 2 is a deep strategy game; very complex, though obviously video games will seem superficial to most people without knowing anything about them.

But I find the debates on strategy and race imbalances fascinating. It's funny how hotly debated some issues are - and you'll find many similarities with the fitness and diet community. For example, just like the "low carb/metabolic advantage" discussion stirs up a lot of emotions, similar strong and polarizing opinions are seen in the threads that deal with questions related to whether the match-ups between races are imbalanced (there are three races to choose from in the game - some people think Terran vs Zerg is “imbalanced” right now, some don't, etc.)

I'll also watch YouTube-videos of progamers playing for hours. And I finally understand why you'll have sports fans that rarely practice the sport themselves being the most hardcore sports fans out there...I rarely find time to play, but I'm crazing for watching others play.

[Freedirt]

Woo!

[Christianyouth]

In on new thread

[CaptainSpauldin]

Okay, couple questions... I get that you are suppose to lower your carbs, and keep protein and fat high on rest days. What exactly is 'low' for carbs on rest days, being fairly inactive...shovel the driveway. What is considered low for carbs on rest days with let's say 30-45 minutes LISS cardio? When I say 'rest days' I mean days without moving the iron. Same with protein and fat... are protein and fat staying the same as training day amounts or raising?

Training day: 255p/110f/345c
Rest day: 255p/110f/150c

Bump due to new thread

[.aeterna]

Okay, couple questions... I get that you are suppose to lower your carbs, and keep protein and fat high on rest days. What exactly is 'low' for carbs on rest days, being fairly inactive...shovel the driveway. What is considered low for carbs on rest days with let's say 30-45 minutes LISS cardio? When I say 'rest days' I mean days without moving the iron. Same with protein and fat... are protein and fat staying the same as training day amounts or raising?

Training day: 255p/110f/345c
Rest day: 255p/110f/150c

Bump due to new thread

stressing over details

[CaptainSpauldin]

stressing over details

I guess you could say I like to pay attention to detail

[jdinolfo]

We should have 1 Rule

Before posting/asking questions, at least visit the LeanGains site

^^
This

Would be great if this could happen.

[CaptainSpauldin]

stressing over details

Always do

[.aeterna]

I guess you could say I like to pay attention to detail
id recommend reading these - these articles are gold:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/01/marshmallow-test.html
http://www.leangains.com/2011/02/how-to-walk-talk-and-unlock-your-true.html

in regards to ur diet , im assuming ur cutting, so long as protein = high, caloric deficit, heavy lifting

then u are good to go

all martin advises is to raise carbs slightly on workout days, thats all - but ultimately it comes down to how your body responds

[CaptainSpauldin]

id recommend reading these - these articles are gold:


in regards to ur diet , im assuming ur cutting, so long as protein = high, caloric deficit, heavy lifting

then u are good to go

all martin advises is to raise carbs slightly on workout days, thats all - but ultimately it comes down to how your body responds

Yea dropping a few lbs. Right on man, thanks for the info.

[OzzBozz]

went out and drank last night, but weighed myself after 1 week of this diet and i've lost ~2.5 lb's and no/minimal muscle loss... just fat!

[Dameem]

We should have 1 Rule

Before posting/asking questions, at least visit the LeanGains site


agreed!!!


^^
This

Would be great if this could happen.

Someone should like write a condensed group of answers on all the common questions and whenever anyone asks the same repeated question, we just go like....... "visit post # 36"
e.g.

Question: "Insert annoying repeated question"
Answer: "Insert cool a** answer precise to the T so we wouldn't have to waste a lot of time answering the same questions again and again and again and again.........."

Question: "How much BCAA...."
Answer: "STFU & GTFO"

Too harsh? m/b, but I'm sick of seeing all those repeated questions of people who OBVIOUSLY didn't even visit the leangains website.
I would contribute, I just gotta finish my exams in the next 2 days.

[DefiningMoments]

That latest article Martin posted opened my eyes a bit because I relate to what he wrote about in the article. I need to find another hobby or something.

[danoz82]

Did you guys actually read anything other than leangain's site? Open any web site that makes money on diets and you will see a ton of testimonials and cool pictures. Obviously for 200$ a consultation he will do his best to make as much hype about it as he can.

Try doing a Google Scholar search for "intermittent fasting -mice -fish -Ramadan -rats -birds" (that's to exclude animal related articles and Ramadan articles since they were written by Muslim scientists who obviously won't say anything bad about Ramadan).

[.aeterna]

Did you guys actually read anything other than leangain's site? Open any web site that makes money on diets and you will see a ton of testimonials and cool pictures. Obviously for 200$ a consultation he will do his best to make as much hype about it as he can.

Try doing a Google Scholar search for "intermittent fasting -mice -fish -Ramadan -rats -birds" (that's to exclude animal related articles and Ramadan articles since they were written by Muslim scientists who obviously won't say anything bad about Ramadan).

pls go

[kels_88]

Did you guys actually read anything other than leangain's site? Open any web site that makes money on diets and you will see a ton of testimonials and cool pictures. Obviously for 200$ a consultation he will do his best to make as much hype about it as he can.

Try doing a Google Scholar search for "intermittent fasting -mice -fish -Ramadan -rats -birds" (that's to exclude animal related articles and Ramadan articles since they were written by Muslim scientists who obviously won't say anything bad about Ramadan).

......annnnddddd????

I'm sorry. Did I hire/ask you to think for me?

[hankst]

He has a valid point, though. You can never be too careful.

[.aeterna]

He has a valid point, though. You can never be too careful.

top hits on google scholar for "intermittent fasting"

Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury from calorie intake

Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular systems

Apparent Prolongation of the Life Span of Rats by Intermittent Fasting: One Figure

Caloric restriction and intermittent fasting: two potential diets for successful brain aging





u know what, i have to thank danoz82 for bringing the idea of google scholar in here. now i have even more solid evidence to prove that IF is simply awesome

[foodpr0n]

Martin validates his info with Pubmed studies anyway so what's this guy on about? :confused:

[hankst]

Oh, I didn't mean he has a point about IF, I know IF is awesome (I have been IFing for a year now).

But there are enough fad diets out there that are followed blindly by less educated people who throw their money, time, and possibly health away. Doing some research on your own is always a good idea.

[danoz82]

u know what, i have to thank danoz82 for bringing the idea of google scholar in here. now i have even more solid evidence to prove that IF is simply awesome
That is why I told to write exactly "intermittent fasting -mice -fish -Ramadan -rats -birds" and set "since 2007" timeframe. Rodents while sharing a lot of common with humans have extrmely fast metabolism.

I can't post links, but here are some extracts from the top results related to sports and healthy people.

[Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism, 2009]
Conclusions: IF does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism in healthy lean men despite changes in muscle phosphorylation of GSK and mTOR. The decrease in resting energy expenditure after IF indicates the possibility of an increase in weight during IF when caloric intake is not adjusted. (that's actually the first result in the list!)

[Influence of a 24 h fast on high intensity cycle exercise performance in man, ???]
The present study provides evidence that a 24 h fast is detrimental to high-intensity exercise performance and possibly influences the metabolic response following maximal cycle exercise. These changes may be related to the altered pre-exercise acid-base status and/or a change in the pattern of substrate utilisation.

[Fasting and sport: an introduction, 2010]
Athletes who choose to fast during training or competitions may therefore be at a disadvantage. The available evidence does not entirely support this view, but there is little or no information on the effects on elite athletes competing in challenging environments. Prolonged periods of training in the fasted state may not allow optimum adaptation of muscles and other tissues. Further research on a wide range of athletes with special nutrition needs is urgently required. In events where performance might be affected, other strategies to eliminate or minimise any effects must be sought.

[The effects of dietary fasting on physical balance among healthy young women, 2010]
Fasting resulted in significant declines in functional reach (p < 0.01), and ability to balance in a single limb stance with eyes open, on both the dominant and non-dominant legs (p < 0.01 and p < 0.01, respectively), and with eyes closed on the dominant leg (p < 0.01).

[danoz82]

......annnnddddd????

I'm sorry. Did I hire/ask you to think for me?
what is that for? You know it is kind of funny you percieve the critique as a direct insult, LOL

Well, I simply am a medical student. And what I read in leangains doesn't conform with the modern medicine, but since my expertise is not high enough I am not saying if it is right or wrong. There are other guys, like Lyle McDonad (it made me chuckle when I saw his photo, though), Will Brink, Layne Norton, Dave Barr whose opinion might be of higher value and who've spent a lot of time doing science.

After all I am not selling anything, so I don't get your anger.

[.aeterna]

no wonder, u do realize that alot of the medical studies that are done in the training/nutrition world do not coincide with practical application right?

BRB hearing my doctor tell me that doing SQUATS will stunt my growth.
BRB hearing my doctor tell me that I have to follow the FDA food pyramid to be of the utmost health.

[Dexter3000]

Oh, I didn't mean he has a point about IF, I know IF is awesome (I have been IFing for a year now).

But there are enough fad diets out there that are followed blindly by less educated people who throw their money, time, and possibly health away. Doing some research on your own is always a good idea.


I agree. BUT: the main difference here is that IF is not a diet.

I am a IF fan as well and I am very positive about it (for almost 2 years). But it's not that much more then a different approach to meal timing (compared to the traditional 6 meals a day). Also the calorie/carb cycling is nothing revolutionary. His training however is less known to the average guy but that also is not a specific diet he is trying to sell. But, once you put all the stuff he mentions (the "leangains guide") together, results can be amazing.

Martin share's a lot of useful and solid information for free. His articles are there to read for anybody who wants. I think that's great. For me personally, he touches every single interest in sport/physics/pyschology with good and helpful articles.

A lot of guys are getting great results putting the information and guidelines he shares for free, into practice. I think that says a lot. His clients pay, sure, but the guy's got to make some money too :)

[Foe1605]

I've been running IF for the past 2 weeks and things have been going really well. Over this weekend however, I have had 2 unusual (for me) binging sessions, and I am curious as to whether or not it is in result of the way I'm following the diet.

I'm a competitive runner so I'm doing two training sessions per day (running in the morning and lifting in the early evening).

I'm running the 16/8 schedule and my meals and training have been laid out as follows:

6:00am- Running (3-8miles)
12pm- Break fast with 20-25% of daily intake (mostly protein/fat)
6pm-weight training
7pm- Meal 2 (40% of daily intake)
8pm- Meal 3 (remaining cals for day)(fast begins)

I'm thinking that I should be eating my biggest meal to break the fast instead of at the end of the day and that is why I am so hungry going into the late evening. Also, I'm eating at a 500 calorie deficit on training days and eating at maintenance on rest days. Any help would be appreciated.

[Dexter3000]

Any of you also found out fasted training doesn't work for you? I train in the afternoon and feel lethargic, shaky, light headed, just not good. When I eat about 25% of my calories pre-wo, it's fine. So that is what I do.

Just out of curiosity: I see a lot of guys that love fasted training, am I the only one who experiences otherwise?

(maybe if I would train earlier on the day this would not be a problem)

[chriskav]

Any of you also found out fasted training doesn't work for you? I train in the afternoon and feel lethargic, shaky, light headed, just not good. When I eat about 25% of my calories pre-wo, it's fine. So that is what I do.

Just out of curiosity: I see a lot of guys that love fasted training, am I the only one who experiences otherwise?

(maybe if I would train earlier on the day this would not be a problem)

I feel the opposite sometimes, some times due to work shifts I have to train at different times of the day. I would always prefer fasted training over 1-2 meals pre workout. I feel stronger, more energetic and just an all round high during fasted which I wouldn't with other days of doing it.

[coopermax]

Any of you also found out fasted training doesn't work for you? I train in the afternoon and feel lethargic, shaky, light headed, just not good. When I eat about 25% of my calories pre-wo, it's fine. So that is what I do.

Just out of curiosity: I see a lot of guys that love fasted training, am I the only one who experiences otherwise?

(maybe if I would train earlier on the day this would not be a problem)

I do early morning fasted training and love it....i then take bcaas twice and eat my first meal at about 1130....it has been working well, and my lifts have been going up

[coopermax]

Does anyone do early morning fasted training, but breaking the fast after training, eating until about 3pm, then fasting?

i suspect, as martin says, fasting after you eat might be pretty tough...thats why the fast is typically broken later in the day and eating till bed time...

[danoz82]

no wonder, u do realize that alot of the medical studies that are done in the training/nutrition world do not coincide with practical application right?

BRB hearing my doctor tell me that doing SQUATS will stunt my growth.
BRB hearing my doctor tell me that I have to follow the FDA food pyramid to be of the utmost health.

sure I do. But unlike yours the extracts I posted are not related to medicine but rather are applied to sports.

the food pyramid is for what they call "maintainance"
and squats could stunt your growth when you were growing.

[Sean15782]

I've been running IF for the past 2 weeks and things have been going really well. Over this weekend however, I have had 2 unusual (for me) binging sessions, and I am curious as to whether or not it is in result of the way I'm following the diet.

I'm a competitive runner so I'm doing two training sessions per day (running in the morning and lifting in the early evening).

I'm running the 16/8 schedule and my meals and training have been laid out as follows:

6:00am- Running (3-8miles)
12pm- Break fast with 20-25% of daily intake (mostly protein/fat)
6pm-weight training
7pm- Meal 2 (40% of daily intake)
8pm- Meal 3 (remaining cals for day)(fast begins)

I'm thinking that I should be eating my biggest meal to break the fast instead of at the end of the day and that is why I am so hungry going into the late evening. Also, I'm eating at a 500 calorie deficit on training days and eating at maintenance on rest days. Any help would be appreciated.

You need to switch to maintenance on training days and eat at the deficit on rest days. It doesn't make sense to deprive yourself of the calories on the days where you need them!
Also, the biggest meal should be after weight training for workout days and the first meal for rest days.

[zmustang]

We should have 1 Rule

Before posting/asking questions, at least visit the LeanGains site

x1000

[chuntbaby]

Does anyone do early morning fasted training, but breaking the fast after training, eating until about 3pm, then fasting?

i suspect, as martin says, fasting after you eat might be pretty tough...thats why the fast is typically broken later in the day and eating till bed time...


Read his protocols. I believe He says drink bcaas after ur workout / every hour or 2 up till u break fast. I wouldn't wanna stop eating at 3 in the afternoon unless ur going to bed at like 6 haha

[Dameem]

Any of you also found out fasted training doesn't work for you? I train in the afternoon and feel lethargic, shaky, light headed, just not good. When I eat about 25% of my calories pre-wo, it's fine. So that is what I do.

Just out of curiosity: I see a lot of guys that love fasted training, am I the only one who experiences otherwise?

(maybe if I would train earlier on the day this would not be a problem)

I've tried 2 timings of training. One was late afternoon and recently in the early morning. Have no problem in both while breaking my fast late at night. I feel well through the day. previously I would really get drowsy at noon when I have my lunch. Not anymore. I'm amazed for how many hours I can just sit and study for my Uni.


Does anyone do early morning fasted training, but breaking the fast after training, eating until about 3pm, then fasting?

i suspect, as martin says, fasting after you eat might be pretty tough...that's why the fast is typically broken later in the day and eating till bed time...

No way I would break my fast that early. The day is still at its beginning. Would rather occupy myself with some form of activity then breaking the fast later at night or in the afternoon. I would suggest you do the same.

[njman]

Any of you also found out fasted training doesn't work for you? I train in the afternoon and feel lethargic, shaky, light headed, just not good. When I eat about 25% of my calories pre-wo, it's fine. So that is what I do.

Just out of curiosity: I see a lot of guys that love fasted training, am I the only one who experiences otherwise?

(maybe if I would train earlier on the day this would not be a problem)

I workout around 4pm, I found I lift better with a small meal before hand, maybe a banana with a piece of grilled chicken and a potato.

[coopermax]

Read his protocols. I believe He says drink bcaas after ur workout / every hour or 2 up till u break fast. I wouldn't wanna stop eating at 3 in the afternoon unless ur going to bed at like 6 haha

i do, i follow his early morning fasted protocol to a t, i just wanted to know if anyone ate after that instead of fasted...because you could...it simply moving things around..the problem is that you then have to fast from 3pm to bedtime...which would be much more difficult

[coopermax]

I've tried 2 timings of training. One was late afternoon and recently in the early morning. Have no problem in both while breaking my fast late at night. I feel well through the day. previously I would really get drowsy at noon when I have my lunch. Not anymore. I'm amazed for how many hours I can just sit and study for my Uni.



No way I would break my fast that early. The day is still at its beginning. Would rather occupy myself with some form of activity then breaking the fast later at night or in the afternoon. I would suggest you do the same.

i do do the same...i was just curious if anyone broke their fast early and tried to fast during the second half of the day into the next morning

[Pikku]

Any of you also found out fasted training doesn't work for you? I train in the afternoon and feel lethargic, shaky, light headed, just not good. When I eat about 25% of my calories pre-wo, it's fine. So that is what I do.

Just out of curiosity: I see a lot of guys that love fasted training, am I the only one who experiences otherwise?

(maybe if I would train earlier on the day this would not be a problem)

I dont like working out fasted either, and prefer a 4-500kcal meal beforehand.

Just think though, martin has 2 protocols involving preworkout meals, so obviously fasted training isnt for everyone.

[Brofessional]

Eh, gave it a shot today. Fasted for 16 hours exactly and had my first meal. Followed Martin's recommendation of making it high in protein and around 30-35% of my total intake for the day (off day). Pretty much felt awful after that meal. Bad migraine, fell asleep for about an hour which is rare for me, and have just felt off and "toxic" (nausea, bleh feeling) if that makes any sense.

Not sure if I'll be able to continue. During the fast was fine, however after I began eating is when I started to feel like crap and have ever since. Bummer. Just may not work for me personally. I'm contemplating giving it another shot tomorrow or finishing out the week to give it some adaptation time but I'm unsure if I should or not, feeling pretty crappy.

[determined4000]

Eh, gave it a shot today. Fasted for 16 hours exactly and had my first meal. Followed Martin's recommendation of making it high in protein and around 30-35% of my total intake for the day (off day). Pretty much felt awful after that meal. Bad migraine, fell asleep for about an hour which is rare for me, and have just felt off and "toxic" (nausea, bleh feeling) if that makes any sense.

Not sure if I'll be able to continue. During the fast was fine, however after I began eating is when I started to feel like crap and have ever since. Bummer. Just may not work for me personally. I'm contemplating giving it another shot tomorrow or finishing out the week to give it some adaptation time but I'm unsure if I should or not, feeling pretty crappy.

1. If you are really going to give it a shot, give it at least 10 days
2. No IF isnt for everyone

[Brofessional]

1. If you are really going to give it a shot, give it at least 10 days
2. No IF isnt for everyone

Yeah definitely, no knock against IF or anything, may just not be for me. I think I may give it a shot for atleast 10 though as you said.

I also think I may make meal 1 smaller and make meal #2 my largest of the feeding period. Sort of "ramping" to the biggest meal of the day. That initial gigantic meal just seemed to hit hard it felt like.

[determined4000]

Yeah definitely, no knock against IF or anything, may just not be for me. I think I may give it a shot for atleast 10 though as you said.

I also think I may make meal 1 smaller and make meal #2 my largest of the feeding period. Sort of "ramping" to the biggest meal of the day. That initial gigantic meal just seemed to hit hard it felt like.

you an have more than 2 meals as well
Some spread out 5 meals in the 8 hour period

[Brofessional]

you an have more than 2 meals as well
Some spread out 5 meals in the 8 hour period

Oops, I should have probably elaborated more, my fault.

I'm definitely eating more than 2 meals in the 8 hour period. I was actually starting to feel a bit better and "level out" it felt like after my second meal (of about 4 or 5 total), so I was thinking of just making the first meal a decent sized one, then my second one the largest. I feel like it may be a better idea to make that second meal the biggest one rather than the first one, sort of using the first one as a primer for more food coming in rather than slamming myself with such a large amount after the fast. It slammed me pretty good eating so much at once after fasting that long. My body definitely isn't used to that obviously.

[chriskav]

Got swooshed today!

[coopermax]

Got swooshed today!

swooshed? or Whooshed?

[texmo]

I have stalled out after dropping about 10kilograms in the last five weeks.
I was 89kilos and am back down to 79-80kgs however my weight is stuck at 79kgs. Any ideas on getting my body to jump back into weight loss mode?

[PerpetualMotion]

I have stalled out after dropping about 10kilograms in the last five weeks.
I was 89kilos and am back down to 79-80kgs however my weight is stuck at 79kgs. Any ideas on getting my body to jump back into weight loss mode?

I personally prefer to increase activity before decreasing calories. So, I'd increase activity (if you have time, which everyone does) and when you stall again then I'd decrease calories.

[kels_88]

Did you guys actually read anything other than leangain's site? Open any web site that makes money on diets and you will see a ton of testimonials and cool pictures. Obviously for 200$ a consultation he will do his best to make as much hype about it as he can.

Try doing a Google Scholar search for "intermittent fasting -mice -fish -Ramadan -rats -birds" (that's to exclude animal related articles and Ramadan articles since they were written by Muslim scientists who obviously won't say anything bad about Ramadan).


......annnnddddd????

I'm sorry. Did I hire/ask you to think for me?


what is that for? You know it is kind of funny you percieve the critique as a direct insult, LOL

Well, I simply am a medical student. And what I read in leangains doesn't conform with the modern medicine, but since my expertise is not high enough I am not saying if it is right or wrong. There are other guys, like Lyle McDonad (it made me chuckle when I saw his photo, though), Will Brink, Layne Norton, Dave Barr whose opinion might be of higher value and who've spent a lot of time doing science.

After all I am not selling anything, so I don't get your anger.

I was trying to find out what your point was. Sure plenty of people get sucked into fad diet programs with no reason, however for people that are already educated on diet and nutrition the leangains approach is more of an adaptation that some people may choose to follow.

Those other guys also have sizeable groups of people that follow their approaches. As someone already pointed out, Martin back's up alot of his work with pubmed articles, and if a topic is interesting enough I (and I imagine others) will go off and do further reading on our own.

My reaction was based off your implication that we're sheep shelling out hundos to talk to some guy with a blog. Following an IF diet has not cost me a cent more than eating 6 meals a day did. Don't assume that I'm ignorant because I'm on the internet.

[chriskav]

swooshed? or Whooshed?

Tomato tomato

[MajorTwang]

I'm practicing IF at the weekend - I really like spending Saturday & Sunday morning just not being arsed about eating, but pigging out in the afternoon & early evening.

The trouble I have though is weekdays. I work out first thing (6:15 to 7:00) on work days, and my evening meal around 7 or 8pm is a family meal, which I have no intention of missing. That means my feeding window on an 18/6 would be 1-2pm to 7-8pm.

After I've trained, I'm seriously hungry. I've tried making do with protein drink, but it's not working, and going 6 hours without food after training just seems wrong on every level. Can't imagine a handfull of BCAA's would be any better.

Any ideas ?

[tgabe213]

The BCAA's DO help curb the hunger a bit. I follow the same schedule as you do. I'm pretty friggin hungry following a fasted morning workout. But it may also be the fact that my mind is used to eating when I'm done working out.

I think part of my problem is that I'm not eating enough at the end of the day to keep me full into the late morning. It's only been a few days for myself, but we shall see how it works out.

[vanessaromeo]

I'm practicing IF at the weekend - I really like spending Saturday & Sunday morning just not being arsed about eating, but pigging out in the afternoon & early evening.

The trouble I have though is weekdays. I work out first thing (6:15 to 7:00) on work days, and my evening meal around 7 or 8pm is a family meal, which I have no intention of missing. That means my feeding window on an 18/6 would be 1-2pm to 7-8pm.

After I've trained, I'm seriously hungry. I've tried making do with protein drink, but it's not working, and going 6 hours without food after training just seems wrong on every level. Can't imagine a handfull of BCAA's would be any better.

Any ideas ?

Martin briefly mentions that morning trainers have the worst experience with this type of IF; however, have you ever thought about doing your fast from 8pm to 7am, having your PWO meal, and then fasting again until your dinner with your family? That would still give you 2 meals a day, a good PWO surplus, and time with your family, while still generating a lot of the benefits of fasting bc you are still going for extended periods of time without food.
Martin does say there is no right or wrong and that each client has a different protocol. I believe that any amount of fasting- even if you cant do the full 16 hrs straight- is going to still benefit you greatly compared to frequent feedings every 2-3 hrs

Just a thought :-)

[vanessaromeo]

The BCAA's DO help curb the hunger a bit. I follow the same schedule as you do. I'm pretty friggin hungry following a fasted morning workout. But it may also be the fact that my mind is used to eating when I'm done working out.

I think part of my problem is that I'm not eating enough at the end of the day to keep me full into the late morning. It's only been a few days for myself, but we shall see how it works out.

Not sure if you are currently tracking your macros, but sparkpeople.com is a great free site for that and it lets you customize the tracking of whatever nutrient you want, unlike some other trackers. If you create your "menu" a week in advanced & already know what your meal (s) should be, then it won't feel quite so 'obsessive' but you can still know exactly how much you should be eating :)

[tgabe213]

Not sure if you are currently tracking your macros, but sparkpeople.com is a great free site for that and it lets you customize the tracking of whatever nutrient you want, unlike some other trackers. If you create your "menu" a week in advanced & already know what your meal (s) should be, then it won't feel quite so 'obsessive' but you can still know exactly how much you should be eating :)

Yes I do track. 90% of the time I'm able to count every calorie, other days, it's just not as eat to count foods that I didn't prepare.

[brunkhy]

That is why I told to write exactly "intermittent fasting -mice -fish -Ramadan -rats -birds" and set "since 2007" timeframe. Rodents while sharing a lot of common with humans have extrmely fast metabolism.

I can't post links, but here are some extracts from the top results related to sports and healthy people.

[Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism, 2009]
Conclusions: IF does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism in healthy lean men despite changes in muscle phosphorylation of GSK and mTOR. The decrease in resting energy expenditure after IF indicates the possibility of an increase in weight during IF when caloric intake is not adjusted. (that's actually the first result in the list!)

[Influence of a 24 h fast on high intensity cycle exercise performance in man, ???]
The present study provides evidence that a 24 h fast is detrimental to high-intensity exercise performance and possibly influences the metabolic response following maximal cycle exercise. These changes may be related to the altered pre-exercise acid-base status and/or a change in the pattern of substrate utilisation.

[Fasting and sport: an introduction, 2010]
Athletes who choose to fast during training or competitions may therefore be at a disadvantage. The available evidence does not entirely support this view, but there is little or no information on the effects on elite athletes competing in challenging environments. Prolonged periods of training in the fasted state may not allow optimum adaptation of muscles and other tissues. Further research on a wide range of athletes with special nutrition needs is urgently required. In events where performance might be affected, other strategies to eliminate or minimise any effects must be sought.

[The effects of dietary fasting on physical balance among healthy young women, 2010]
Fasting resulted in significant declines in functional reach (p < 0.01), and ability to balance in a single limb stance with eyes open, on both the dominant and non-dominant legs (p < 0.01 and p < 0.01, respectively), and with eyes closed on the dominant leg (p < 0.01).


I think you do have a point in questioning. If nobody did this, everyone here would still be eating 30g of protein every three hours. Most people just accept fad diets and other nutrition 'rules' like it's true science.
That being said, Martin gives scientific studies for most of what he says. Idk if you've read his blog, but if it interests you, I suggest you check out some articles("Leangains guide" sums everything up), it might help you get some answers for your indagations.

For example, on one article he says that completely fasted training could be detrimental and it's recommended that you take BCAA prior to the workout or, in other setups, you have a normal pre-workout meal with 20-25% of your daily calories.

Also, it doesn't say IF will raise your metabolism or anything like that(I'm talking about Leangains, idk about other systems), and there aren't any major physiological benefits to IF but it does help a lot of people dealing with the psychological aspect of dieting, making it more practical, easier and it removes that 'dieting' feeling, among other things.

[coopermax]

Tomato tomato

i wasnt being a smartass, i was just wondering if thats what you meant...I just read the article on the WHoosh factor and it happened the other day to me....

[Ipodtouchaddict]

I have been doing IF for a week now. Does anyone else wake up with a headache? Kind of like ahungover headache or like a headache related to too much caffiene?

[doctapeppa]

Is anyone doing Wendler's 531 while IF'ing? I've been doing it since december and I think I'm getting weaker. When I started it I was at a caloric surplus and was increasing my weights but now, for the past 3 or 4 weeks I have not gotten a PR and have even gone down in strength. I'm only at a small caloric deficit and losing about 1 lb a week and everything else is in check. I'm sort of convinced that the 5/3/1 method of the last "all out" set at higher reps followed by more higher rep accessory work doesn't play nice with a caloric deficit/IF but it might just be something i'm doing wrong.

Have any of you had success/failure with 531 while on IF for calorie restriction?

[fitlover]

Is anyone doing Wendler's 531 while IF'ing? I've been doing it since december and I think I'm getting weaker. When I started it I was at a caloric surplus and was increasing my weights but now, for the past 3 or 4 weeks I have not gotten a PR and have even gone down in strength. I'm only at a small caloric deficit and losing about 1 lb a week and everything else is in check. I'm sort of convinced that the 5/3/1 method of the last "all out" set at higher reps followed by more higher rep accessory work doesn't play nice with a caloric deficit/IF but it might just be something i'm doing wrong.

Have any of you had success/failure with 531 while on IF for calorie restriction?

5/3/1 is fine in a deficit. If you are losing strength, especially within the first 3-4 weeks, something else is off rather than your diet. The whole "I cut calories and lost strength immediately" thing is more mental than anything else.

Also remember that with a cut in calories, you're going to have to reduce training volume. You'd keep the intensity up, though. If you don't want to make changes in the actual training, then you might have to be satisfied with as small as .5 lbs. per week of weight loss. On a strength program, I wouldn't recommend having a deficit lower than 250-300 calories at a time, especially in the beginning.

Are you doing cardio as well?

[doctapeppa]

5/3/1 is fine in a deficit. If you are losing strength, especially within the first 3-4 weeks, something else is off rather than your diet. The whole "I cut calories and lost strength immediately" thing is more mental than anything else.

Also remember that with a cut in calories, you're going to have to reduce training volume. You'd keep the intensity up, though. If you don't want to make changes in the actual training, then you might have to be satisfied with as small as .5 lbs. per week of weight loss. On a strength program, I wouldn't recommend having a deficit lower than 250-300 calories at a time, especially in the beginning.

Are you doing cardio as well?

I do low intensity cardio (brisk walk for 45 mins, 2-3 times a week). I feel my lifting volume is pretty low, but I don't exactly know what to compare it to. For example: Today was bench day and I did my 5/3/1 bench and only hit 7 reps, when I should have hit 10. Then I did 3 sets of incline bench and 3 sets of flat DB press. That's it. The other days are all equally low. Also, I'm doing it 3 days a week (mon-wed-fri-mon). My calculated 1RM has consistently been going down.

I'm thinking I may try one of two things: Up my calories a tad and slow my weight loss a bit, just like you say. Or, go back to Martin's RPT workout which worked pretty well for me before. I just don't want to quit 5/3/1 after only 3 cycles unless it really is the routine and not something else that's not working for me. I'm sort of leaning towards the RPT because I don't think my bf% is really to the point yet where I need to lose less than a lb a week but I'm not sure.

[fitlover]

I do low intensity cardio (brisk walk for 45 mins, 2-3 times a week). I feel my lifting volume is pretty low, but I don't exactly know what to compare it to. For example: Today was bench day and I did my 5/3/1 bench and only hit 7 reps, when I should have hit 10. Then I did 3 sets of incline bench and 3 sets of flat DB press. That's it. The other days are all equally low. Also, I'm doing it 3 days a week (mon-wed-fri-mon). My calculated 1RM has consistently been going down.

I'm thinking I may try one of two things: Up my calories a tad and slow my weight loss a bit, just like you say. Or, go back to Martin's RPT workout which worked pretty well for me before. I just don't want to quit 5/3/1 after only 3 cycles unless it really is the routine and not something else that's not working for me. I'm sort of leaning towards the RPT because I don't think my bf% is really to the point yet where I need to lose less than a lb a week but I'm not sure.

How is your sleep? Your hydration? How many sets do you usually do, and how many exercises? Have you cut carbs a lot?

Slow weight loss is the best, IMO. You have to decide what goal is most important to you as well. There is nothing wrong with losing .5 lbs per week, but I guess it depends how much weight you need to lose.

[CutItUp9759]

6:15 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 9 g BCAA, 5 g creatine, 5 g glutamine Only on lifting days

6:30 – 7:30 AM: Training (Cardio or lifting)

7:30 – 10 AM: 9 g BCAA Only on lifting days, 5 g creatine, 5 g glutamine Only on lifting days

12 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.


6-7:45 PM: Second meal


I have been following this schedule and let me tell you:

1) Not hungry post-workout
2) Unreal pumps (this is not important, but its always fun, right?)
3) Lifting heavier fasted
4) Workouts are much more efficient and zoned in

For those who work out in the morning, LeanGains is optimal.

[NotHereOrThere]

Anybody having fun today following the superbowl?


This is my first time ever IFing with a hangover. I didn't even get close to my protein macros last night during the feeding phase. Mainly superbowl party food and beer and tequila. How do you guys/gals handle the day following with a hangover?

The thought of training with this and no food seems a little bit... well frightning. LOL

[doctapeppa]

How is your sleep? Your hydration? How many sets do you usually do, and how many exercises? Have you cut carbs a lot?

Slow weight loss is the best, IMO. You have to decide what goal is most important to you as well. There is nothing wrong with losing .5 lbs per week, but I guess it depends how much weight you need to lose.

My sleep is good, I get about 7 hours a day. I drink plenty of water. I'm getting 2700 cal on lifting days with about 285 g protein, about 50 fat and the rest carbs. On rest days I have about 2400 calories with protein about 250 and about 70 or 80 fat and the rest carbs. For the main lift I do like 3 or 4 warmup sets and then I do sets/reps for the cycle I'm on. I don't go crazy with accessory work.


Another example: my squat day looks like this:
Squat
3 warmup sets (30-40-50%) followed by whatever cycle im on set/reps. last time I squatted was last wednesday and I did 5 reps, 3 reps and got 7 reps on my last set.
Lunges
4 sets of 8 reps/leg holding 35 lb dumbbells
Hypers
3 sets of 20 holding a 35 lb plate
Crunches
3 sets of 20

OHP day I do
OHP 5/3/1
4 sets of dips
4 sets of chins
done

First, My squat started stalling and then I had 3 deadlift sessions without PR's and now my bench is crapping out too. Technically, I don't need to reset anything yet as far as 5/3/1 goes because I'm hitting more than the required 5/3 or 1 reps, but looking at my numbers my 1RM are going down week to week instead of up. It's not mental. I am giving it all I got. I have the book and read it 3 times and am following 5/3/1 to the tee. Even my chin ups are weaker..bah!

I'm a client of Martin's and I just can't afford to consult with him again right now but I have a feeling that if I did, he'd immediately put me back on the workout he gave me before.

[fitlover]

My sleep is good, I get about 7 hours a day. I drink plenty of water. I'm getting 2700 cal on lifting days with about 285 g protein, about 50 fat and the rest carbs. On rest days I have about 2400 calories with protein about 250 and about 70 or 80 fat and the rest carbs. For the main lift I do like 3 or 4 warmup sets and then I do sets/reps for the cycle I'm on. I don't go crazy with accessory work.


Another example: my squat day looks like this:
Squat
3 warmup sets (30-40-50%) followed by whatever cycle im on set/reps. last time I squatted was last wednesday and I did 5 reps, 3 reps and got 7 reps on my last set.
Lunges
4 sets of 8 reps/leg holding 35 lb dumbbells
Hypers
3 sets of 20 holding a 35 lb plate
Crunches
3 sets of 20

OHP day I do
OHP 5/3/1
4 sets of dips
4 sets of chins
done

First, My squat started stalling and then I had 3 deadlift sessions without PR's and now my bench is crapping out too. Technically, I don't need to reset anything yet as far as 5/3/1 goes because I'm hitting more than the required 5/3 or 1 reps, but looking at my numbers my 1RM are going down week to week instead of up. It's not mental. I am giving it all I got. I have the book and read it 3 times and am following 5/3/1 to the tee. Even my chin ups are weaker..bah!

I'm a client of Martin's and I just can't afford to consult with him again right now but I have a feeling that if I did, he'd immediately put me back on the workout he gave me before.

IMO, I think that if you want to keep your strength and intensity up in the gym, it's best to cut slower. However, I know a lot of people who cut weight on powerlifting/strength programs, and had no strength loss...it's about 80% mental, really. In your case you're not doing that much in terms of super intense training, so I don't see the actual program as having anything to do with it.

[MajorTwang]

have you ever thought about doing your fast from 8pm to 7am, having your PWO meal, and then fasting again until your dinner with your family? That would still give you 2 meals a day, a good PWO surplus, and time with your family, while still generating a lot of the benefits of fasting bc you are still going for extended periods of time without food.

Interesting idea - thanks.

This would effectively be two big meals a day, 12 hours apart. Considering 6-8hrs to digest a big meal though - does this still count as IF ?

[PBateman2]

Anybody having fun today following the superbowl?


This is my first time ever IFing with a hangover. I didn't even get close to my protein macros last night during the feeding phase. Mainly superbowl party food and beer and tequila. How do you guys/gals handle the day following with a hangover?

The thought of training with this and no food seems a little bit... well frightning. LOL

Food hangover for me...lol. Ate a 5lb burrito yesterday:D

[doctapeppa]

IMO, I think that if you want to keep your strength and intensity up in the gym, it's best to cut slower. However, I know a lot of people who cut weight on powerlifting/strength programs, and had no strength loss...it's about 80% mental, really. In your case you're not doing that much in terms of super intense training, so I don't see the actual program as having anything to do with it.

Gah. I think you might be on to something there with this being mental. Hmm. Now I gotta figure out how to stop being a wuss and push that darn bar harder. Thanks!

[doctapeppa]

Martin briefly mentions that morning trainers have the worst experience with this type of IF; however, have you ever thought about doing your fast from 8pm to 7am, having your PWO meal, and then fasting again until your dinner with your family? That would still give you 2 meals a day, a good PWO surplus, and time with your family, while still generating a lot of the benefits of fasting bc you are still going for extended periods of time without food.
Martin does say there is no right or wrong and that each client has a different protocol. I believe that any amount of fasting- even if you cant do the full 16 hrs straight- is going to still benefit you greatly compared to frequent feedings every 2-3 hrs

Just a thought :-)

This an 11 hour fast. You can't call this fasting. Splitting up your fast throughout the day does not give you the same benefits of fasting.



Interesting idea - thanks.

This would effectively be two big meals a day, 12 hours apart. Considering 6-8hrs to digest a big meal though - does this still count as IF ?

No. You have to draw the line somewhere. If this were fasting then everyone fasts because you inevitably stop eating when you go to sleep. 12 hours is not really enough time for your body to switch from the fed state to fasting. This is not to say you can't eat this way and have success, but this isn't really "fasting"

[lizzylamb]

Man... is it just me or did anyone find having a hard time getting the calories in. When I did 5 meals a day, I can easily put in 2k. But after my first post workout meal of about 800 calories, I feel like sleeping for the rest of the day. I find myself eating a lot of pb towards the end of the night to meet the calories.

[hankst]

Man... is it just me or did anyone find having a hard time getting the calories in. When I did 5 meals a day, I can easily put in 2k. But after my first post workout meal of about 800 calories, I feel like sleeping for the rest of the day. I find myself eating a lot of pb towards the end of the night to meet the calories.

Dear girl,
man up.



But on a more serious note: IF is not for everyone, and if you feel more comfortable eating more smaller meals - go for it. IF is supposed to make your life easier and less complicated, not harder.

[jdinolfo]

Anybody having fun today following the superbowl?


This is my first time ever IFing with a hangover. I didn't even get close to my protein macros last night during the feeding phase. Mainly superbowl party food and beer and tequila. How do you guys/gals handle the day following with a hangover?

The thought of training with this and no food seems a little bit... well frightning. LOL

Yea man....

I think I had 5 beers during the whole game, but since I only ate roughly 2000 cals/day all week, I woke up with a headache this morning from those beers.

I just followed the same plan of lifting at 1030 and breaking fast at 1145. My workout definitely did suffer though because this was my first time training fasted following any kind of drinking.

I was actually quite shocked and am glad, too because now I won't be having 5 beers again for a while if i'm training the next day. Maybe ill just train every day so I won't drink! lol

[reverse79]

Recently did a workout non fasting...first time in a month

Never again...Fasting work outs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bloated workouts

haha

oh, super bowl weekend

[vanessaromeo]

This an 11 hour fast. You can't call this fasting. Splitting up your fast throughout the day does not give you the same benefits of fasting.




No. You have to draw the line somewhere. If this were fasting then everyone fasts because you inevitably stop eating when you go to sleep. 12 hours is not really enough time for your body to switch from the fed state to fasting. This is not to say you can't eat this way and have success, but this isn't really "fasting"

This is what Martin says about early morning training:

Here's a sample setup for a client that trains early in the morning and prefers the feeding phase at noon or later.

6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.
6-7 AM: Training.
8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
10 AM: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

[vanessaromeo]

Recently did a workout non fasting...first time in a month

Never again...Fasting work outs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bloated workouts

haha

oh, super bowl weekend

I was just gonna say: today I did a non-fasted workout and it sucked ass! I am still new to IF, but I really don't understand how I EVER worked out with food in my gut...even several hours later. That was about the crappiest performance I've ever shown in the gym...

From now on, all fasted workouts. Wow. Just wow

[vanessaromeo]

Dear girl,
man up.



But on a more serious note: IF is not for everyone, and if you feel more comfortable eating more smaller meals - go for it. IF is supposed to make your life easier and less complicated, not harder.

LMAO!!!!! "Man up". Yeah, sorry but I have NO PROBLEM eating 1000 cals at a time *oink oink baby* I love it. I'd much rather eat that way than little tiny b*tch meals that wouldn't feed an ant.

[PerpetualMotion]

1000 calorie meals rock. You can make a much better meal. I mean, I don't understand how I could cook only a 300-400 calorie meal ever again. And the best part is that I always leave satisfied. This is literally the only way I can diet without feeling hungry.

[ErickStevens]

Man... is it just me or did anyone find having a hard time getting the calories in. When I did 5 meals a day, I can easily put in 2k. But after my first post workout meal of about 800 calories, I feel like sleeping for the rest of the day. I find myself eating a lot of pb towards the end of the night to meet the calories.

IF is not for you.

[PBateman2]

1000 calorie meals rock.

X2! You have to LOVE to eat to make this really work in your favor.

[vanessaromeo]

Hell yeah!! if you don't have a ferocious appetite, then get back to eating 6 tiny meals a day; don't force the IF program on yourself. You'll know within a few days if IF is right for you, and it's not for everyone.

But daaaaaaamn, how can anyone not enjoy a 1000 calorie meal LOL!!!

[coopermax]

IF has been awesome....I LOVE eating huge meals.......plus, i seem to responding to it pretty good...

[tgabe213]

1000 calorie meals rock. You can make a much better meal. I mean, I don't understand how I could cook only a 300-400 calorie meal ever again. And the best part is that I always leave satisfied. This is literally the only way I can diet without feeling hungry.

Hell yes! 1200 cal burrito from Qdoba for lunch today, then chicken breast, brocolli, and pasta for dinner tonight. Puts me right about my 2200 calories. Fantastic! Mornings are a bit tough after working out until lunch, however, it's well worth it. I almost feel a bit guilty ;)

[DirtGoose]

In on new threead!
First day of IF tomorrow, gotta say I'm pretty excited man really looking forward to that 1200calorie PWO meal haha.

And thanks to Determined and PBateman for the diet advice in the last thread.
Time to get **** done yeee

[PBateman2]

^^Good luck, man. Tear some shyt up!


Hell yeah!! if you don't have a ferocious appetite, then get back to eating 6 tiny meals a day; don't force the IF program on yourself. You'll know within a few days if IF is right for you, and it's not for everyone.

But daaaaaaamn, how can anyone not enjoy a 1000 calorie meal LOL!!!

Hahaha...Ballin!

[vanessaromeo]

Hahaha...Ballin!

LOL!! I have the world's biggest appetite. I wish I was a man bc I would F-up some 2000 calorie meals!!!

[.aeterna]

Is anyone doing Wendler's 531 while IF'ing? I've been doing it since december and I think I'm getting weaker. When I started it I was at a caloric surplus and was increasing my weights but now, for the past 3 or 4 weeks I have not gotten a PR and have even gone down in strength. I'm only at a small caloric deficit and losing about 1 lb a week and everything else is in check. I'm sort of convinced that the 5/3/1 method of the last "all out" set at higher reps followed by more higher rep accessory work doesn't play nice with a caloric deficit/IF but it might just be something i'm doing wrong.

Have any of you had success/failure with 531 while on IF for calorie restriction?

must be something to do with your diet...i use reverse pyramid training for all my heavy compound lifts, and i do a very high volume workout (15-20 total sets) hitting each muscle group every 4-5 days.

strength has been going up, body weight down on a 500cal deficit...this is why im loving IF, period

[zmustang]

Gah. I think you might be on to something there with this being mental. Hmm. Now I gotta figure out how to stop being a wuss and push that darn bar harder. Thanks!

IMHO and in my experience. In November when I was cutting pretty hard I had been IFing for 6 months and all of a sudden my strength started plummeting. I had been making consistent gains, never adding more than 5lbs to my lifts a week but always making the same reps on my heavy set. I was using my rendition of Martins RPT set up (not a client). I was eating around 50g fat on training days and 100g on rest days, keeping protein above 220g and cycling carbs to be slightly below maintenance and 500cals below maintenance (w/o and rest days).

Anyway, long story short, You and I have similar stats and what helped me was increasing fats. I find that I do not need 350g of carbs on training days to gain strength, increasing fats (I think) enabled me to get a larger adrenaline pump during training and generally more "pumped" just in everyday life (I always train fasted). 50g of fats is quite low if you are not making up for them on rest days. 100g is more but not enough to make up for the lack on lifting days. Maybe try a less drastic cycle such as 70g-120g to bring your average up a little.

Thats what helped me, I have no science to back it up, just an opinion.

[Dameem]

I agree. I've recently cut carbs completely and my fats are around 80-120g on a daily basis. My strength is currently going up, I was amazed. Although too early for results. Will continue for a month and see what happens.

Anyone stressing about eating then going directly to bed (10-20m) later.
IDK, but my subconscious is telling me to F*IT. I need something in my belly to fuel my early morning training + something which would fuel me for the next 23 Hrs w/o food.

[murphy27]

Food hangover for me...lol. Ate a 5lb burrito yesterday:D

5lb Way to go bro ! by the way thanks for that oatmeal recipe it was amazing man

[.aeterna]

y r u fasting for 23 hours..?

[doctapeppa]

IMHO and in my experience. In November when I was cutting pretty hard I had been IFing for 6 months and all of a sudden my strength started plummeting. I had been making consistent gains, never adding more than 5lbs to my lifts a week but always making the same reps on my heavy set. I was using my rendition of Martins RPT set up (not a client). I was eating around 50g fat on training days and 100g on rest days, keeping protein above 220g and cycling carbs to be slightly below maintenance and 500cals below maintenance (w/o and rest days).

Anyway, long story short, You and I have similar stats and what helped me was increasing fats. I find that I do not need 350g of carbs on training days to gain strength, increasing fats (I think) enabled me to get a larger adrenaline pump during training and generally more "pumped" just in everyday life (I always train fasted). 50g of fats is quite low if you are not making up for them on rest days. 100g is more but not enough to make up for the lack on lifting days. Maybe try a less drastic cycle such as 70g-120g to bring your average up a little.

Thats what helped me, I have no science to back it up, just an opinion.

Hey, thanks a lot. This is a great idea and make a lot of sense. I will give it a shot.

[jr1125]

Does any1 have advice... im currently on a 12hr shift. and will be working one today also. ill be off wednesday so how do i go back to normal 8hr window wednesday and thursday>?

heres a breakdown of what i mean

schedule monday and tuesday (645pm-645am work)
fast from 1am-5pm windows 5pm-1am

im fasting according to work schedule so i can eat a bit at work
im off wednesday so will be off 645am. how do i return to normal for 2 days before going back to 12hr schedule fri-sun?

[determined4000]

Hey, thanks a lot. This is a great idea and make a lot of sense. I will give it a shot.

I agree with zmustang about keeping fat up
I dont cycle macros at all really. I prefer a higher fat diet. But I dont want to go real low carb on any day, so I doont cycle.
The way I see it, if I dont take in carbs on off days, then I will have no energy the next day when I train fasted.
Id suggest 250g protein, 85g fat and rest carbs (150-225)

[.aeterna]

Does any1 have advice... im currently on a 12hr shift. and will be working one today also. ill be off wednesday so how do i go back to normal 8hr window wednesday and thursday>?

heres a breakdown of what i mean

schedule monday and tuesday (645pm-645am work)
fast from 1am-5pm windows 5pm-1am

im fasting according to work schedule so i can eat a bit at work
im off wednesday so will be off 645am. how do i return to normal for 2 days before going back to 12hr schedule fri-sun?

i work a similar schedule (7PM-7AM rotating). e.g:

its complicated but you will have to work it out urself

try and stick to a few things

1. make sure you have at least a 16 hour fast (during which is your normal SLEEP time)
2. if this means cutting your feeding window to 5 or even 4 hours, do it...just maintain the fast.

trust me..if i can make it work, u def can :D

[jr1125]

i work a similar schedule (7PM-7AM rotating). e.g:

its complicated but you will have to work it out urself

try and stick to a few things

1. make sure you have at least a 16 hour fast (during which is your normal SLEEP time)
2. if this means cutting your feeding window to 5 or even 4 hours, do it...just maintain the fast.

trust me..if i can make it work, u def can :D

thanks. i was wondering that.

might just end around 10 so i can eat around 2pm -10pm.

[Dameem]

y r u fasting for 23 hours..?

It began b/c I had a 3 week intensive university course in which I was busy the whole day.
6AM-8AM In the Gym
9AM-3PM Study
3PM-10PM Uni.
11PM Eat
11:30 Sleep

I had to postpone my meal till later cause If I had my biggest meal somewhere in the afternoon, I feel lethargic and won't be able to study/concentrate.
So decided to lower training to 3 days a week and HIIT the other 3 days.
I felt drinking water through the day just made my stomach rumble more and actually made me hungrier.
So I told myself to experiment to even cut water. Miraculously, that worked. Drinking only pre-workout and not even post, only sipping minimal amount while training.
I have much less (m/b only once) stomach rumble a day. I am focused and full of energy. I can study for hours and not feel the time go by.
I'm done with my course now, but decided to stick with this plan for a while and see what I can achieve in the next month or two.
Is it bad what I'm doing? Will it work? Can I lose body fat even though I'm going almost directly to bed? Only time would tell, but I am optimistic w/ this lifestyle.

[Ipodtouchaddict]

I have been doing IF for a week now. Does anyone else wake up with a headache? Kind of like ahungover headache or like a headache related to too much caffiene?

bump

[PerpetualMotion]

y r u fasting for 23 hours..?

I implement a 24-hour fast into my week all the time, especially after reading "Eat, Stop, Eat," which Martin seems to be a fan of. I always plan it so that I can get back to my regular IF schedule (16/8). The benefits of a 24-hour fast seem nice, especially since there's some science behind it.


bump

What time are you going to bed? Also, are you eating right before bed? Maybe it's the size of your meal that's effecting you or change in macros. Could be a number of things. Maybe too many carbs or not enough carbs.

[Phrak]

Is there anything wrong with consuming 2500-3000 calories in a sitting?

I fast from 9:30pm-1:30pm
1:30pm - 70g Protein Shake (300 cal)
5:00pm - 70g Protein Shake (300 cal)
5:30-7:00pm Gym
7:30-9:30 - 2500-3000 calorie meal (~210 P / ~315 Cho / ~100 F)

Ive been doing this for about 5 weeks now, and have been losing weight like a mad man. Down about 20lbs in that time frame. I know Martin states to eat about 50% of your calories in the first two meals and 50% of the calories in your post workout, i just prefer to train on an empty stomach.

[danoz82]

I think you do have a point in questioning. If nobody did this, everyone here would still be eating 30g of protein every three hours. Most people just accept fad diets and other nutrition 'rules' like it's true science.
That being said, Martin gives scientific studies for most of what he says. Idk if you've read his blog, but if it interests you, I suggest you check out some articles("Leangains guide" sums everything up), it might help you get some answers for your indagations.

For example, on one article he says that completely fasted training could be detrimental and it's recommended that you take BCAA prior to the workout or, in other setups, you have a normal pre-workout meal with 20-25% of your daily calories.

Also, it doesn't say IF will raise your metabolism or anything like that(I'm talking about Leangains, idk about other systems), and there aren't any major physiological benefits to IF but it does help a lot of people dealing with the psychological aspect of dieting, making it more practical, easier and it removes that 'dieting' feeling, among other things.

Ok, I spent some time reading it. Here is what I found:

===
"I gained about 20 lbs of weight in a little more than three months. When I did the math, I came to the conclusion that the ratio of muscle:fat gain was approximately 2:1, meaning 67% of the weight gained was muscle."

"Over 20 lbs of lean mass AND body fat loss in a little over 60 days possible? The only explanation in my mind is the intermittent fasting approach and my previous base and years of strength training. I am also quite an easy gainer if I incorporate heavy weights."
===

Now that is an obvious lie.

Also he blocked my comment on his blog and ignored my e-mail. (I didn't say anything offensive nor questioned his diet, just asked what he thought about a couple of papers).

anyways, can you direct me to the papers he supported his diet with?

[texmo]

coconut water http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_water

would this be considered breaking my fast?

[chuntbaby]

anyone else love fasted training (i do) but hate how most companies but F'IN carbs/fillers in their preworkouts!!!

just ranting because i have a few supps stocked from pre IF time and now cant use them ... MP Assault being the #1 im disappointed in missing out on (not saying the carbs in Assault are fillers btw; there's just alot of em haha)

[chuntbaby]

coconut water http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_water

would this be considered breaking my fast?

i believe i read on leangains.com anything under 50 cals wont break the fast but dont over do it

[texmo]

cool, there is about 39 calories in the average coconut.

they are the best hydrator in the world, love em'

[chuntbaby]

cool, there is about 39 calories in the average coconut.

they are the best hydrator in the world, love em'

nice; a trainer at my gym was talking about how he couldn't find it any more and how good it was, hadn't heard of it till then.

[fitlover]

Gah. I think you might be on to something there with this being mental. Hmm. Now I gotta figure out how to stop being a wuss and push that darn bar harder. Thanks!

Haha, seriously you'd be surprised how much of a mental thing it is. If you enter a cut with people telling you "you'll lose strength" or if you start to believe "I'm losing strength", you WILL. It's placebo.

When I was cutting, I didn't start losing strength until I started believing I was...after I put that away from my mind post-competition, I was deadlifting 250 on 1600-1700 calories a day. So you'll be just fine :D



But daaaaaaamn, how can anyone not enjoy a 1000 calorie meal LOL!!!

AGREED!! :D

[t1ger]

Haha, seriously you'd be surprised how much of a mental thing it is. If you enter a cut with people telling you "you'll lose strength" or if you start to believe "I'm losing strength", you WILL. It's placebo.
That is soo true. The same goes for a lot of other things as well, placebo can be scary if you're not aware of it. Control over your mind = winz.

[sputnikmoments]

Also, the biggest meal should be after weight training for workout days and the first meal for rest days.

What's the reason behind making the first meal the largest on rest days? Been LG-ing for 4 months, am now stalled at 5kg weight loss so far. I'm trying out a new approach this week of not counting calories, though I still keep a rough estimate of being over or under maintenance. The past 2 days, I've also managed to fast for 23h each. Can someone clarify: Will IF/Leangains work in losing fat even if I eat at maintenance calories?

[fitlover]

That is soo true. The same goes for a lot of other things as well, placebo can be scary if you're not aware of it. Control over your mind = winz.

Exactly. The mind is a very powerful thing ;)

[coopermax]

Is there anything wrong with consuming 2500-3000 calories in a sitting?

I fast from 9:30pm-1:30pm
1:30pm - 70g Protein Shake (300 cal)
5:00pm - 70g Protein Shake (300 cal)
5:30-7:00pm Gym
7:30-9:30 - 2500-3000 calorie meal (~210 P / ~315 Cho / ~100 F)

Ive been doing this for about 5 weeks now, and have been losing weight like a mad man. Down about 20lbs in that time frame. I know Martin states to eat about 50% of your calories in the first two meals and 50% of the calories in your post workout, i just prefer to train on an empty stomach.

no, this would be like the warrior diet

[benwin21]

first day of doing IF. fasting was relatively easy(maybe its because i woke up at 11 and broke the fast at 2pm).

i think i over ate a bit in the post workout meal.

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6319/dsc00327a.th.jpg (http://img830.imageshack.us/i/dsc00327a.jpg/)

i think its something around 1000cals-can't be sure because its from a catering(cooked)

[Ivan088816]

Thanks for making the thread, Emma-Leigh! :)

After just starting IF, I already lost a bit of that stubborn fat (though that's not to say it's entirely attributed to IF) - the first few days you are going to go hungry if you're used to 6 meals a day. I've only adjusted now. I take green tea or coffee to keep the hunger pangs away, and it's helped boost my energy in my workouts as well.


I would recommend limiting coffee and instead drinking more green tea. There is a lot of literature on the benefits of green tea in helping to lower blood glucose. This will only increase the benefits of the short fast. Caffeine in coffee on the other hand increases your blood glucose.

Here are a couple of papers pulled off of pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC517497/



Effect of green tea on blood glucose levels and serum proteomic patterns in diabetic (db/db) mice and on glucose metabolism in healthy humans

Abstract

Background

Green tea is widely consumed in Asian countries and is becoming increasingly popular in Western countries. Epidemiologically, it has been suggested that green tea consumption prevents type 2 diabetes. The present study was aimed at providing evidence of improvement in glucose metabolism in diabetic mice and healthy humans upon green tea consumption.

Results

Green tea promoted glucose metabolism in healthy human volunteers at 1.5 g/body in oral glucose tolerance tests. Green tea also lowered blood glucose levels in diabetic db+/db+ mice and streptozotocin-diabetic mice 2–6 h after administration at 300 mg/kg without affecting serum insulin level, whereas no effect was observed in control mice (+m/+m and normal ddY mice). The serum protein profiles of db+/db+ and +m/+m mice were analyzed for the first time by SELDI (surface-enhanced laser desorption/ionization)-TOF (time-of-flight)-MS (mass spectrometry), and then compared to investigate any effects of oral green tea administration on serum proteins. The protein profiles in db+/db+ mice showed that the spectral peak intensities at the mass/charge ratios (m/z) of 4119, 4203, 4206, 4211, 4579, 9311 and 18691 were >3 times lower, and those of 13075, 17406, 17407, 17418, 17622, 18431 and 26100 were >3 times higher than respective peak intensities in +m/+m mice. When green tea was administered to db+/db+ mice, the peak intensities were markedly decreased at m/z 11651 and 11863, and slightly decreased at m/z 4212. The peak intensities at 7495, 7595, 7808, 14983, 15614, 31204 were markedly increased after the administration.

Conclusion

The present study provides evidence that green tea has an antidiabetic effect. Although we could not find simple reversed effect of green tea on the diabetes-induced modifications of the levels of several serum proteins, we found that the 4211 (4212) Da protein level that was decreased in the diabetic state was further decreased after green tea administration. This is the first report demonstrating that a certain serum protein may be involved in the antihyperglycemic effect of green tea. The contribution of this protein should be further studied.




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21193040




Laboratory studies on weight control and prevention of metabolic syndrome by green tea.

Abstract
Green tea (Camellia sinensis, Theaceace) is the second most popular beverage in the world and has been extensively studied for its putative disease preventive effects. Green tea is characterized by the presence of a high concentrations of polyphenolic compounds known as catechins, with (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) being the most abundant and most well-studied. Metabolic syndrome (MetS) is a complex condition that is defined by the presence of elevated waist circumference, dysglycemia, elevated blood pressure, decrease serum high-density lipoprotein-associated cholesterol, and increased serum triglycerides. Studies in both in vitro and laboratory animal models have examined the preventive effects of green tea and EGCG against the symptoms of MetS. Overall, the results of these studies have been promising and demonstrate that green tea and EGCG have preventive effects in both genetic and dietary models of obesity, insulin resistance, hypertension, and hypercholesterolemia. Various mechanisms have been proposed based on these studies and include: modulation of dietary fat absorption and metabolism, increased glucose utilization, decreased de novo lipogenesis, enhanced vascular responsiveness, and antioxidative effects. In the present review, we discuss the current state of the science with regard to laboratory studies on green tea and MetS. We attempt to critically evaluate the available data and point out areas for future research. Although there is a considerable amount of data available, questions remain in terms of the primary mechanism(s) of action, the dose-response relationships involved, and the best way to translate the results to human intervention studies.

[kels_88]

I would recommend limiting coffee and instead drinking more green tea. There is a lot of literature on the benefits of green tea in helping to lower blood glucose. This will only increase the benefits of the short fast. Caffeine in coffee on the other hand increases your blood glucose.

Here are a couple of papers pulled off of pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC517497/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21193040

That is some excellent information. I believe that alot of people want the extra caffeine in coffee for the appetite suppression, but green tea FTW!

[fitlover]

first day of doing IF. fasting was relatively easy(maybe its because i woke up at 11 and broke the fast at 2pm).

i think i over ate a bit in the post workout meal.

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6319/dsc00327a.th.jpg (http://img830.imageshack.us/i/dsc00327a.jpg/)

i think its something around 1000cals-can't be sure because its from a catering(cooked)

That food looks greasy and nasty as f*ck, not gonna lie... but no, you didn't overdo it. 1000 cals is a normal sized PWO meal.


Edit: Seriously, you actually ate that?!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eEkUgAC_83k/SkpXbRutXhI/AAAAAAAAAiM/TH_vt1GHwMk/s400/Disgusted.jpg

[Ivan088816]

That is some excellent information. I believe that alot of people want the extra caffeine in coffee for the appetite suppression, but green tea FTW!

Youre right about that. Interestingly enough green tea does have caffeine in it (something like 50mg per serving), however the EGCG, in particular, has many benefits that counteract the blood sugar raising characteristic of caffeine.

[kasparaitis]

Per the leangains guide, if I'm on a 3500kCal diet, my post workout meal should be... ~1750Kcal right?

[papasmurf2217]

Per the leangains guide, if I'm on a 3500kCal diet, my post workout meal should be... ~1750Kcal right?

Doesn't have to be. Martin recommends it to be the largest meal of the day, but if you can't stomach huge meals or like to space it out then that's fine.

[ejb20782]

For my schedule right now during the days that I work "IF" would be perfect for me, but would it be reasonable to switch from the typical 16/8 schedule to a regular 3 meals a day for like a day or two during the weekends? Does anyone else take breaks from the "IF" protocol?

[acj4k]

This is more of a general lifting question but figured I ask here anyway since I am using IF.

I feel like I am starting to stall on squats. Tbh, squats are the only leg based exercise that I do and I feel like that I am finally starting to feel the effects of that. What other assistance exercises can I do for my legs/lower body that can improve my squats?

Thanks.

[benwin21]

That food looks greasy and nasty as f*ck, not gonna lie... but no, you didn't overdo it. 1000 cals is a normal sized PWO meal.


Edit: Seriously, you actually ate that?!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eEkUgAC_83k/SkpXbRutXhI/AAAAAAAAAiM/TH_vt1GHwMk/s400/Disgusted.jpg

lol. yeah, but for my defense it tastes a bit better than how it looks, and i didn't had the power nor the ingredients(and time) to make a good looking and decent meal.

at least it got some protein in it :)

[PerpetualMotion]

For my schedule right now during the days that I work "IF" would be perfect for me, but would it be reasonable to switch from the typical 16/8 schedule to a regular 3 meals a day for like a day or two during the weekends? Does anyone else take breaks from the "IF" protocol?

Some people do but why would you want to switch out on the weekend?

[ejb20782]

Some people do but why would you want to switch out on the weekend?

Just because of my weird work schedule,

Tuesday-Saturday I wake up at 12am and go to bed at 5pm, on my weekends though I normally wake up at 4-5am and go to bed at 9-10 pm.

[fitlover]

Per the leangains guide, if I'm on a 3500kCal diet, my post workout meal should be... ~1750Kcal right?

Eat however much you want PWO. I personally don't like eating more than a 400 calorie meal pre-training.

[TheRagingboxer]

Youre right about that. Interestingly enough green tea does have caffeine in it (something like 50mg per serving), however the EGCG, in particular, has many benefits that counteract the blood sugar raising characteristic of caffeine.

Green Tea is great, I do however prefer coffee in the mornings because of the extra gitty-up it gives me before training at 4am.

Plus it does help somewhat with appetite suppression. Cutting currenlty running IF, it does get hard because my cutting cals is around 1950 right now daily, and at the end of the day, that is not many calories. Was hard at first to configure the correct meals to try to hit my needed protein grams, but has gotten easier.

Anyone else Cutting with IF?

[kasparaitis]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed before... if you were to do the IF early morning fasted training protocol, would you still want higher glycemic carbohydrates? (i.e. white rice instead of brown rice)

[tgabe213]

Green Tea is great, I do however prefer coffee in the mornings because of the extra gitty-up it gives me before training at 4am.

Plus it does help somewhat with appetite suppression. Cutting currenlty running IF, it does get hard because my cutting cals is around 1950 right now daily, and at the end of the day, that is not many calories. Was hard at first to configure the correct meals to try to hit my needed protein grams, but has gotten easier.

Anyone else Cutting with IF?

Yup. Fasted workouts in the mornings. I break fast/eat lunch around noon, then eat dinner between 5-7pm. I do my best to hit 1k calories for lunch, then try to eat a big dinner to be more full for the next morning. Without random 'junk food' snacking, it's tough to hit 2200 calories sometimes. Thought I've only started a week ago.

[TheRagingboxer]

Yup. Fasted workouts in the mornings. I break fast/eat lunch around noon, then eat dinner between 5-7pm. I do my best to hit 1k calories for lunch, then try to eat a big dinner to be more full for the next morning. Without random 'junk food' snacking, it's tough to hit 2200 calories sometimes. Thought I've only started a week ago.

What r ur cutting cals? I break my fast as well at 11am and feed until 7pm. I know leangains suggests biggest meal to be the first, but with a family my biggest meal is dinner, I just try to stick with Chicken, Turkey, or Talapia with spinach for my lunch/first meal.

I'm the opposite I could easily smash over 3000 cals, but do not cause my cutting cals are at 1950, sucks having a shotty metabolism.

[tgabe213]

Cutting cals are 2200.

[ErickStevens]

Since being back on the IF train, I've had three fasted training sessions. Each one had a new PR. Feels good man.

[NotHereOrThere]

anyone else love fasted training (i do) but hate how most companies but F'IN carbs/fillers in their preworkouts!!!

just ranting because i have a few supps stocked from pre IF time and now cant use them ... MP Assault being the #1 im disappointed in missing out on (not saying the carbs in Assault are fillers btw; there's just alot of em haha)

I just said F-it man and am mixing the 10G BCAAs with the 1/2 scoop of assault. I hope this isn't screwing me over but I am seeing progress, in the mirror, not the scale. LOL

Maybe that is where I am screwing up. I just LOVE THE TASTE of the damn fruit punch. I look forward to it everyday I workout. :D

[ErickStevens]

Oh yeah, my pre-workout is 1 serving Purple WrAAth, one serving MAN Body Octane, and one Diet Rock Star. Beast Mode Cocktail!

[NotHereOrThere]

Thanks eric! Makes me feel ok just drinking the mp assault and bcaas.

[foodpr0n]

Lol'ed at the swap coffee for green tea.

Not. Happening.

:D

I for one know Martin certainly doesn't.

[doctapeppa]

The most recent studies suggest coffee is overall better for health, weight loss, insulin/glucose control and even cancer prevention than tea. Here are some references:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20953616 (this one shows that coffee consumption and not green tea is beneficial for adiponectin levels, a hormone that helps with weight loss and helps treat and prevent type 2 diabetes)

More recent stuff on benefits of coffee
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21240590

more:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21226707

This one was just published two days ago and is a huge cohort study on 97,753 Japanese men and women.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21298466


Coffee beats tea, any day.

[determined4000]

Coffee = good
tea = good
No need to avoid either or think one is inherently better than the other
Drink what you like
Each have been shown to have numerous benefits and both taste great.
To me thats like saying chicken breast over turkey breast or vice versa

[doctapeppa]

Coffee = good
tea = good
No need to avoid either or think one is inherently better than the other
Drink what you like
Each have been shown to have numerous benefits and both taste great.
To me thats like saying chicken breast over turkey breast or vice versa

C'mon. You know chicken is way better than turkey...

[fitlover]

I really don't think coffee vs. green tea really makes a significant difference in the long run.

DRINK WHAT YOU LIKE TO DRINK.

I for one am never giving up coffee. :)

[foodpr0n]

I really don't think coffee vs. green tea really makes a significant difference in the long run.

DRINK WHAT YOU LIKE TO DRINK.

I for one am never giving up coffee. :)

this this this this this this this this this this this

the minuta of the argument don't drink the coffee cause of blood glucose is ridonkulous.

caffeine is also an appetite suppressant and is wonderful

[determined4000]

the minuta of the argument don't drink the coffee cause of blood glucose is ridonkulous.


x2 LOL at IFer worrying about blood sugar with coffee contributing to weight gain and smashing 1000cal meals

[hheck50]

Hi,
I'm a 15 year old male: 6'1, roughly 140 pounds. I have recently started stronglifts 5x5 (90 lb squat right now) and run on off days. I was wondering if the leans gains eating approach would be good for me, or if I should eat 5-6 evenly spaced meals. Also, what is the leangains approach to carbs? Thanks

[PBateman2]

Hi,
I'm a 15 year old male: 6'1, roughly 140 pounds. I have recently started stronglifts 5x5 (90 lb squat right now) and run on off days. I was wondering if the leans gains eating approach would be good for me, or if I should eat 5-6 evenly spaced meals. Also, what is the leangains approach to carbs? Thanks

Dont think you should worry about something like fasted training/lean gains. Maybe down the line can do it.

Train. Eat. Study hard. Maybe a part-time job. Sleep. Eat more. Repeat.

:D

[hheck50]

Dont think you should worry about something like fasted training/lean gains. Maybe down the line can do it.

Train. Eat. Study hard. Maybe a part-time job. Sleep. Eat more. Repeat.

:D
Thanks for the quick response. If I shouldn't worry about fasted training, etc., would you recommend 3 meals or 6 meals or something else?

[PBateman2]

Thanks for the quick response. If I shouldn't worry about fasted training, etc., would you recommend 3 meals or 6 meals or something else?

Have as many meals as you like. Doesnt matter.

Read the stickies at the top of the Nutrition forum. Will help you.

[waatsgood]

We should have 1 Rule

Before posting/asking questions, at least visit the LeanGains site

I admit I was guilty of this

But, I have one last question(for now, lol) that I cant seem to find on the website.

Martin says he does not recommend training completely fasted. But if I only drink bcaas before hitting the gym, is that considered completely fasted? Some days my energy levels are high and hunger levels are low and I would rather eat more post workout.

[.aeterna]

Martin says he does not recommend training completely fasted. But if I only drink bcaas before hitting the gym, is that considered completely fasted? Some days my energy levels are high and hunger levels are low and I would rather eat more post workout.

yes, because the calories in 10g of bcaa's is so negligible that it doesnt count. additionally its simply better to be SAFE and ensure that no muscle catabolism occurs (after all, ur about to go all high intensity in the gym following an entire 16 hour period with zero calories!)

[heytred]

Today is day 1 of IF... I ate my last meal @ 5 p.m. last night and it's 9 a.m. local time... no hunger pangs or anything. I'll have my first workout in about 2 hours then break the fast.

Any suggestions on how to handle hunger pangs if I get them?

[determined4000]

Today is day 1 of IF... I ate my last meal @ 5 p.m. last night and it's 9 a.m. local time... no hunger pangs or anything. I'll have my first workout in about 2 hours then break the fast.

Any suggestions on how to handle hunger pangs if I get them?

caffeine
apple cider vinegar

[.aeterna]

its been about 2.5 weeks since i began IF. i have been ultra strict on the 16 hour fast period and PWO meal feed.

heres the results thus far;

1.5lbs lost, but this could be due to the strong reduction in carbs on rest days. regardless, i FEEL leaner and when i look in the mirror, i dont look flat. Ill chalk this one up to pure bodyfat loss.

strength has gone up! my deadlift 1RM became roughly 355lbs which is the highest ive ever had it (even when i was "fat bulked" long ago at 170lbs). my squat clean is 165lbs and that was my 2nd time doing it ever... zercher squat numbers continue to rise.

BB bench is stagnant around 205lbs, but thats a HELLA lot better than losing strength. full squat is at my best ever of 1RM 283lbs.

my diet, is EXACTLY the same as when i attempted a traditional cut a year ago. except my numbers back then dropped to the following (at the exact same bodyweight of 140lbs)

squat= 220x1
deadlift= injured (but around 315x1)
bench= 175x1

IF is a lifestyle change, not necessarily a "diet" change...and it is fukkin workin.

[Jonesy08]

Subbed. I can see myself eating this way for a LONG time...

[PrettyReckless]

Got a question, folks.

You know the part where people say "if you're hungry and you don't eat for a long period of time, your body will go into starvation mode, the next time you eat your body will hold on to fats.." - is this true with IF as well?

I'm always hungry in the morning (I wake up at 6 AM), I train fasted, and I don't eat until 12 NN. I've been thinking if this has an effect on my fat storage with this "starvation" myth. Is that all it is or is there any truth to it?

[Dexter3000]

Got a question, folks.

You know the part where people say "if you're hungry and you don't eat for a long period of time, your body will go into starvation mode, the next time you eat your body will hold on to fats.." - is this true with IF as well?

I'm always hungry in the morning (I wake up at 6 AM), I train fasted, and I don't eat until 12 NN. I've been thinking if this has an effect on my fat storage with this "starvation" myth. Is that all it is or is there any truth to it?

You can forget about 'starvation mode' and call it a myth indeed. You can eat 1 big 3000 calorie meal a day and still lose weight, as long as you create an energy deficit.


I never understood people who actually lived the 'avoid starvation mode lifestyle'. Don't they realize they don't get any food in their sleep which would make them go 'catabawlic as fukkk' for those 8 hours at least? Most people nowadays don't significantly expend more energy during the day then during the night anyways, thanks to corporate life, deskjobs, cars and elevators.

[benwin21]

quick question, is it possible to gain some weight while maintaining deficit(-400-500), just by instantly going to a low amount of carbs?

had this and i was wondering if its possible or it was cause by eating above maintenance(had it this week-no sure what the cause is)

[heytred]

caffeine
apple cider vinegar

Gotcha... I don't think it's going to be a problem. I usually keep myself busy and don't even think about food during the morning/earl-afternoon. I broke the fast @ 12:30 local time this afternoon... I felt more satisfied after that 820 calorie meal than I have any meal in my recent memory... I hope I'm not 'jumping on the bandwagon' too soon (hell I haven't even finished day 1) but I really think I'm going to enjoy this.

Something very interesting happened today though... my last meal was at 5:30 p.m. yesterday... I did some light-medium cardio (5000m on the Rower in 24 mins) followed by a few sets of weighted sit ups around 11:30-12:15 this afternoon and broke the fast 30-40 minutes later... my post workout meal had about 36g of carbs yet I'm almost 100% sure my body entered Ketosis. I followed Keto for 4-5 months ending back in September and know what it feels like... I've been eating carbs ever since, but after fasting and doing some cardio I'm pretty sure I induced.

[apace]

anyone just do bodyweight workouts while doing this diet ?
As lately i have been injured andc an't lift heavy so all i do is body weight exercise
or does I.F. and heavy infrequent lifting go hand in hand ??

[chriskav]

quick question, is it possible to gain some weight while maintaining deficit(-400-500), just by instantly going to a low amount of carbs?

had this and i was wondering if its possible or it was cause by eating above maintenance(had it this week-no sure what the cause is)

So you are asking if you can gain weight if you have a calorie deficit? definitely not

[benwin21]

yeah. was 82.5 at one day and then 83 at the next. thought it might be due to decreasing the amount of carbs i had to almost non.

[t1ger]

Got a question, folks.

You know the part where people say "if you're hungry and you don't eat for a long period of time, your body will go into starvation mode, the next time you eat your body will hold on to fats.." - is this true with IF as well?

I'm always hungry in the morning (I wake up at 6 AM), I train fasted, and I don't eat until 12 NN. I've been thinking if this has an effect on my fat storage with this "starvation" myth. Is that all it is or is there any truth to it?
http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

Read "4. Myth: Fasting tricks the body into "starvation mode"."


Efficient adaptation to famine was important for survival during rough times in our evolution. Lowering metabolic rate during starvation allowed us to live longer, increasing the possibility that we might come across something to eat. Starvation literally means starvation. It doesn't mean skipping a meal not eating for 24 hours. Or not eating for three days even. The belief that meal skipping or short-term fasting causes "starvation mode" is so completely ridiculous and absurd that it makes me want to jump out the window.

[PrettyReckless]

Thanks for the clear-up guys. Reps :)

[Dexter3000]

http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4963512/If-starvation-mode-makes-you-fat-Wouldnt-no-one-ever-starve.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Philosoraptor

[PerpetualMotion]

Thanks for the quick response. If I shouldn't worry about fasted training, etc., would you recommend 3 meals or 6 meals or something else?

Martin would just say to make sure that your first meal is your biggest.

Straight from Lean Gains:

"* Meal frequency during the feeding phase is irrelevant. However, most people, including me, prefer three meals.."

[wkjeep]

Hey guys.. no question here... just a comment

Today is my 6th day on IF... 4th? lifting day on it. I feel great! Im loving the freedom of not having to worry about eating throughout the day being a college student and athlete. I fast from 8pm to 12pm or so, and workout at 1045. My first meal is directly after I lift. Yes, that means im lifting fasted. I do feel hungry lol, but str does not suffer, and in fact, im making PRs. Also, im full of energy when I have baseball practice.

I never counted calories before this lifestyle change, but realized i was easily eating roughly 800 calories below maintenance. No wonder i was staying lean but not really gaining size.

Attached is my meal plan for those interested in a 2800 off day 3000 cal training day diet.

[heytred]

I definitely ate 1000 calories worth of turkey + steak at dinner. Feeling like a million dollars and hit my macros perfectly today. Can't wait for some eats tomorrow... that seems to be the best part... each meal today felt like I was overindulging, but wasn't.

[schismatik]

Hello all. I'm not new to IF as i've used it in the past in different set ups with success. I'm trying to get myself back into the gym after a month layoff due to tennis elbow and i'm trying to rehab it back to strenght so i'm using a high rep low weight routine i found on the main site http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drryan13.htm .

As long as i eat at maintenance would having semi-fasted (bcaas) while training like this be detrimental to muscle? I do want to eventually reduce calories to lose some weight i've accumulated, but not before i regain some strenght.

[kasparaitis]

I posted this earlier but no one responded so I'll try again. I haven't been able to find anything on the leangains guide about the GI of the post-workout carbohydrates when doing an early morning fasted training session... I would assume that the higher GI (i.e., white rice) would still be what one would want?

[wkjeep]

I posted this earlier but no one responded so I'll try again. I haven't been able to find anything on the leangains guide about the GI of the post-workout carbohydrates when doing an early morning fasted training session... I would assume that the higher GI (i.e., white rice) would still be what one would want?

I think this is a good question. However...I think you are stressing over details. As long as u are reaching your macro totals at the end of the feast period..you are OK.

I used to research all day about what foods to eat and space them out exactly 3 hours blah blah blah. Ivrealized to calculate how many calories I need and the macros and meet them...lift heavy and hard...and progress will be made

[PBateman2]

I posted this earlier but no one responded so I'll try again. I haven't been able to find anything on the leangains guide about the GI of the post-workout carbohydrates when doing an early morning fasted training session... I would assume that the higher GI (i.e., white rice) would still be what one would want?

Have whatever form of CHO you like for PWO. Its your decision and really not going to make a difference. I wouldnt sweat GI unless youre a diabetic.

I personally like to have a combo "high GI/fast acting" and "low GI/slow acting" CHO for PWO. Just preference.

Read this as well:

http://www.alanaragon.com/elements-challenging-the-validity-of-the-glycemic-index.html

[Harlequinn]

Right so i have question: if i start training at like 7 in the moriningg break my fast as soon as i get home from the gym say 8 ish. * while already having bcaa's preworkout. I eat till about 3 pm then im game to drink water and tea and then go to bed rinse and repeat or do i need to eat before i go to to bed?

[ejb20782]

Right so i have question: if i start training at like 7 in the moriningg break my fast as soon as i get home from the gym say 8 ish. * while already having bcaa's preworkout. I eat till about 3 pm then im game to drink water and tea and then go to bed rinse and repeat or do i need to eat before i go to to bed?

Meal timing is irrelevant during the "feeding phase".

[DirtGoose]

2nd day on IF and I think this is something I will be doing for a loooong time.
The fasting is easy as hell for the most part, considering I sleep through most of it haha. And man am I full from my 1200cal meal. Feels so good.
**** yeah IF

[jsnyde45]

ok very interested in this diet. have a few questions though.
1.what are your macros supposed to look like on training days and non training days?
2.what is the best way to get 10 grams of bcaas pre workout?
3.am i supposed to eat maintnence calories on all days?
4.if i wake up @ 10:30 in workout days when should i begin the feeding period?( i workout late, usually around midnight)

[wkjeep]

ok very interested in this diet. have a few questions though.
1.what are your macros supposed to look like on training days and non training days?
2.what is the best way to get 10 grams of bcaas pre workout?
3.am i supposed to eat maintnence calories on all days?
4.if i wake up @ 10:30 in workout days when should i begin the feeding period?( i workout late, usually around midnight)

shoot for 1-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight, .4-1gram of fat per pound of body weight and then fill in the rest of calories to meet your desired amount with carbs.

im not sure about bcaas because i dont do that, but you can get a cheap bcaa supplement. rule of thumb is 1gram of bcaa equals 4 calories.

your eating is dependent on goals. if your bulking, eat about 300-500 over maintenance, and on a cut, go 300-500 below maintenance. Its all up to you, you can adjust as you are training and go by how you feel. Personally, im 200 over maintance on training days, and 200 below on off days. Training days are high protein high carb, off days are high protein high fat, lower carb.

You can pick anytime to eat or fast. 16 hours of no eating, followed by 8 hours of eating. you wake up at 1030 am or pm? why lift at midnight?

[Ghosting]

stressing over details

780 cals is not something to wonder about?

[wkjeep]

780 cals is not something to wonder about?

clarify what your saying?

[jsnyde45]

shoot for 1-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight, .4-1gram of fat per pound of body weight and then fill in the rest of calories to meet your desired amount with carbs.

im not sure about bcaas because i dont do that, but you can get a cheap bcaa supplement. rule of thumb is 1gram of bcaa equals 4 calories.

your eating is dependent on goals. if your bulking, eat about 300-500 over maintenance, and on a cut, go 300-500 below maintenance. Its all up to you, you can adjust as you are training and go by how you feel. Personally, im 200 over maintance on training days, and 200 below on off days. Training days are high protein high carb, off days are high protein high fat, lower carb.

You can pick anytime to eat or fast. 16 hours of no eating, followed by 8 hours of eating. you wake up at 1030 am or pm? why lift at midnight?

wake up @ 10:30 am. lift @ midnight because i work 2nd shift from 2:40pm-10-40pm.

[wkjeep]

wake up @ 10:30 am. lift @ midnight because i work 2nd shift from 2:40pm-10-40pm.

Well when do u go to bed? I like to workout then start my 8 hour window of eating. Someone else will have to chime in on this....u will have to pick the moat convenient time to eat for u

[jsnyde45]

ok i am cutting so should i contiue to do high reps lower weight or lift heavy all the time?

[jsnyde45]

Well when do u go to bed? I like to workout then start my 8 hour window of eating. Someone else will have to chime in on this....u will have to pick the moat convenient time to eat for u

go to bed shortly after i get home from the gym.

[wkjeep]

go to bed shortly after i get home from the gym.

Well fasted training wont work for u unless u consume allllll ur calories pwo.

U could start eating at 5....make last meal at 1 after lifting.

[wkjeep]

ok i am cutting so should i contiue to do high reps lower weight or lift heavy all the time?

I'd lift heavy low Rep...maintain str on cut

[jsnyde45]

Well fasted training wont work for u unless u consume allllll ur calories pwo.

U could start eating at 5....make last meal at 1 after lifting.

yea thats what i was thinking. thanks bro good lookin out.

[wkjeep]

yea thats what i was thinking. thanks bro good lookin out.

You can always make changes as u go. Good luck

[Kujo2020]

Just thought I'd finally make my first post.

Been doing IF for almost 16 weeks now. Two pre-WO meal approach (I break the fast between 12:30-1:30PM on average). 3 meals on WO days, 2 meals on off days.

I've been using Eric Cressey's Show and Go 3 day training program during the cut.

My starting weight was 202.5 (I'm about 6 feet tall). My weight is now down to 188.5 as of this past Sunday morning.

On average, I've been losing 1.5 to 2 pounds a week. I took one week off three weeks ago, and eat around maintenance or so.

My goal is to get into the 10-12% range (whatever range is takes to get a visible six pack) before trying to bulk up.

Been averaging around 2400 cals on training days, and 1800 cals on off days. Strength has consistently gone-up.

Like others have mentioned, what makes IF so awesome, especially on a cut, is not feeling like your dieting at all. The 1000+ cal PWO meals, and off day meals are of lot fun. :)

I can't see myself eating any other way.

[vdoe]

If my last meal is at 7-8pm, and i hit the gym at 6am, but i dont eat my first meal untill 12pm is it cool to use purple wrath between 6am-12pm?

[tgabe213]

If my last meal is at 7-8pm, and i hit the gym at 6am, but i dont eat my first meal untill 12pm is it cool to use purple wrath between 6am-12pm?

What would lead you to believe otherwise? That's the EXACT time frame Martin posts for fasted morning workouts.


6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.
6-7 AM: Training.
8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
10 AM: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

[vdoe]

well thats what i thought but being that there is 4 calories per gram of bcaa. I thought it would defeat the purpose of fasting. I tried to do some research before i posted but people had mixed views on using bcaa during the fast.

[Shazriki]

Just thought I'd finally make my first post.

Been doing IF for almost 16 weeks now. Two pre-WO meal approach (I break the fast between 12:30-1:30PM on average). 3 meals on WO days, 2 meals on off days.

I've been using Eric Cressey's Show and Go 3 day training program during the cut.

My starting weight was 202.5 (I'm about 6 feet tall). My weight is now down to 188.5 as of this past Sunday morning.

On average, I've been losing 1.5 to 2 pounds a week. I took one week off three weeks ago, and eat around maintenance or so.

My goal is to get into the 10-12% range (whatever range is takes to get a visible six pack) before trying to bulk up.

Been averaging around 2400 cals on training days, and 1800 cals on off days. Strength has consistently gone-up.

Like others have mentioned, what makes IF so awesome, especially on a cut, is not feeling like your dieting at all. The 1000+ cal PWO meals, and off day meals are of lot fun. :)

I can't see myself eating any other way.

Pretty much exactly the same as you (a few pounds lighter, otherwise goals are the same). The only difference is that I eat approx 2200 cals daily regardless of whether its a training day or not. I believe the cyclical calories/carbs only really come into play when you get into the leanGAINS side of things, otherwise you can just stand by the energy in < energy out mantra. That said, I'm planning a carb refeed after my workout on Friday as I've been feeling a bit low the past couple of days and wonder if the ol' metabolism is slowing down slightly. I'm curious to see how it will affect my monday morning weigh in :)

[Kujo2020]

Pretty much exactly the same as you (a few pounds lighter, otherwise goals are the same). The only difference is that I eat approx 2200 cals daily regardless of whether its a training day or not. I believe the cyclical calories/carbs only really come into play when you get into the leanGAINS side of things, otherwise you can just stand by the energy in < energy out mantra. That said, I'm planning a carb refeed after my workout on Friday as I've been feeling a bit low the past couple of days and wonder if the ol' metabolism is slowing down slightly. I'm curious to see how it will affect my monday morning weigh in :)

Right on. I just prefer to eat lower carb on off days. I've been doing this even before started IF, but you're right, I'm sure what you outlined would work as well.

I used Martin's Sure-Fire Fat Loss post http://www.leangains.com/2008/06/sure-fire-fat-loss.html as the main template for setting up the diet.

[jsnyde45]

what is the best bcaa supp to get the 10 grams that are suggested?

[kels_88]

ok very interested in this diet. have a few questions though.
1.what are your macros supposed to look like on training days and non training days?
2.what is the best way to get 10 grams of bcaas pre workout?
3.am i supposed to eat maintnence calories on all days?
4.if i wake up @ 10:30 in workout days when should i begin the feeding period?( i workout late, usually around midnight)

1. Depends, what are your goals? I follow the [calorie goal- (lbm*1.3g protien* 4) - (weight *.5 g/fat* 9)]= [g/carbs* 4 formula] to ensure I'm getting adequate protein/fats and filling the rest in with carbs.
2. I generally put them in through my mouth, though since they're Amino Acids I suppose you could could use a suppository. I'd try getting a powder you can mix and drink first though :D http://www.leangains.com/2010/01/supplements-you-might-actually-find_09.html
3. Depends, what are your goals?
4.What time do you go to bed? I would adjust the "two-meals preworkout" schedule http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html (here) and adjust your schedule. Probably start eating (small meals) around 6 PM if you go to bed at 2AM or so, make sure your post workout meal is your biggest.

[PBateman2]

what is the best bcaa supp to get the 10 grams that are suggested?

Most like Xtend.

[jsnyde45]

Most like Xtend.

thank you!

[mameimo]

Hi, i have a question. I am bulking and recently switched from the conventional 6 meals a day to IF, before IF i was consistently gaining weight but when i switched over and measured my bodyweight the next week i had lost 2 pounds even though i was taking approximately the same amount of calories as i had from the six meals, so is it normal for your morning weight to drop when you switch from the six meals to IF?

[gutox]

Hi! Can someone help me to start IF due my schedule?

Working 7:30 am to 11:45 am
13:15 pm to 18:00 pm (after it is my workout)

any suggestions?

[jsnyde45]

is it ok to drink a protein shake during the fasting period? (when i wake up) i thought i read this in the guidelines, but cannot find it now.

[Budjola]

Fuk it ill give IF a chance, i have 2 questions. I will use IF to finish my bulk (30-45 days left) any1 have good results with IF+bulk and 2nd question is any1 doing that preworkout meal setup?
I'am used to eat before workout (about 60 minutes pre workout) and it feels good and right for me, should i continue it or not. I will still be in 16/8 regime so that is not a problem its just that i will eat and than go to gym.

[Jonesy08]

Fuk it ill give IF a chance, i have 2 questions. I will use IF to finish my bulk (30-45 days left) any1 have good results with IF+bulk and 2nd question is any1 doing that preworkout meal setup?
I'am used to eat before workout (about 60 minutes pre workout) and it feels good and right for me, should i continue it or not. I will still be in 16/8 regime so that is not a problem its just that i will eat and than go to gym.

I'd say Defixon's bulk on IF was "good" to say the least :D: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131057123

Eating before the workout is fine.

[Brofessional]

ok i am cutting so should i contiue to do high reps lower weight or lift heavy all the time?

Always keep heavy lifting in when cutting. Whatever you did to gain muscle and strength while bulking, do the exact same thing on a cut. Your lifting should never change (assuming your training is successful at putting on mass and strength) when cutting. Only diet and cardio (if cardio works for you) should change.

[heytred]

I just finished my 1st day of lifting on IF and it felt great. Today I had to deviate a little from my plan because of what the rest of the day is going to hold, but I'm still breaking the fast at the same time.

Normally I'd like to workout from 11:30-12:15 then eat at 12:30-45, but today I was in the gym from 8:45-9:30. 10g of BCAA's prior, 5g during, then 90 minutes later I had 10g more. I'll break the fast 90 minutes after that. I know I may be looking into the minute details a bit too much but that's not going to negatively affect the fasting stage? From what I've read in here and on Leangains I don't think it is, especially given the pre-workout meal protocol, but I just wanted to make sure. Positive reinforcement, ya dig.

[razer1]

So i'd like to try LG and i'm a bit confused, i'v read the guide and i got some difficulties putting things together...

I work 2 exchanging shifts that are from 6am -2 pm and the other one from 2pm -10pm.
I was thinking about having Sunday off to adjust for the upcoming week, is that fine?

The timing would be as following:
AM shift:
12PM a small pre workout meal (bout 25% daily intake)
3-4pm training
4pm - just a shake - bout 30P ( got school afterwards, and can't eat untill 7pm, is that a problem?)
7pm - rest of the calories
8pm - 12pm - fast

PM shift:
7am- a small pre workout meal (bout 25% daily intake)
9-10am training
11am - biggest meal of the day
13pm -rest of the cals
14pm - 7am - fast

I'm also wondering if I necceseraly have to lower carbs - change calories on non lifting days, since i do a min. of intense 60minutes of cardio on off days.

Also i'v read that first meal should be meat and veggies, would it be OK if i drank some chocolate milk, bc it's conviniet to do while working.

ps. Is it a problem changing fasting hours every week or so, or is 16hr fast all that is important?
pps. I also do about 3h of cardio on sunday-saturday(road cycling), is it fine to do IF then? Have a small pre-workout meal, some during the training and the rest till 8h window closes?

[Absurdist]

Any news on when the book with Lyle is gonna come out?

[Shazriki]

Any news on when the book with Lyle is gonna come out?

Pure speculation, but it could be fairly soon. I assume there is a reason Martin has stopped taking on clients for the time being.

[Dameem]

This Info is for all people who haven't tried the IF method yet and are just beginning. This is specifically for people who are coming out of the regular couple of meals a day way of eating.

I don't think there are any one of use who came out of a regular couple of meals a day way of eating, then tried IF for one month and haven't lost weight.
For people who are like "It's been a couple of days and I wanna ask if..." just forget about it.
If you concentrate on breaking your fast with a protein and carb mix post workout then having another meal later in the day, you definitely will lose fat.

When I tried it the first time in a month, I actually felt like I was eating above my maintenance. my post w/o meal would be a plate of rice and diced chicken which I think would weigh around 200g rice and 300g of chicken, including skin. so you can imagine how heavy that meal was. I would also add to the rice some ketchup and tartar sauce. my second meal, well actually a snack, would be a handful of nuts and m/b a protein shake when I reach home
Weight training was a 5/ day split and no cardio at all.

I think for you guys a better approach would be "I've been on IF for a month and.... my question is....."
I think everyone who was serious about IF when they began would vow for this. Every single one of us lost weight the first month, It's after that period where you should start being anal about stuff and begin asking your questions/experiences.

[jsnyde45]

1.Can I take my multi, fish oil, bcaa caps, zma during the fasting period?

[chriskav]

1.Can I take my multi, fish oil, bcaa caps, zma during the fasting period?

No protein shakes during the fast, also no fish oils either, multi and zma are fine I take mine during the fast

[jsnyde45]

No protein shakes during the fast, also no fish oils either, multi and zma are fine I take mine during the fast

Thanks my man. Bcaa caps?

[Budjola]

Im starting IF today, one last thing to decide is when to start eating at 10:30 or 11:00. But other than that im good to go. Hopefully it is a good choice.

[foodpr0n]

Based from Martin's recommendations;

NO, you don't take multi's during a fast. Multi's are to be taken with a meal.

Don't know about zma, but just take them with the a meal.

[jsnyde45]

Based from Martin's recommendations;

NO, you don't take multi's during a fast. Multi's are to be taken with a meal.

Don't know about zma, but just take them with the a meal.

Zma is to be taken before bed,no? And is it ok to take bcaas during the fast?

[Calhexas]

I've started doing IF. Been doing it for a few days now. I know exactly what people say by feeling like they're eating way too much. My PWO meal is huge and is about 40% of my daily calories. The other two meals seem so big as well. Currently I lower carbs on "off" days. I don't weigh myself regularly but I'll hop on the digital scale at work when I get a chance. I'm currently looking at different foods in an attempt to find a bit more calorie dense foods so the volume isn't so massive. Just realized (to my relief) that 1/2c dry measure couscous is about as many carbs as 1 3/4c dry oats.

Currently at 6'1" 230.8 and 15% bf (bodpod). Looking to get down to around 220 @ 10-12% (no specific timeframe but around summer would be nice :) ).

Also using a modified version of 5/3/1 that incorporates cleans and snatches (won't give em up). I lift 4x a week and run 3x a week (I know most people don't do cardio but I play IMs so I get some sprints in regularly).

[jsnyde45]

Ok 2 different opinions on the multi and zma. Who is right? Lol

[Budjola]

Ok 2 different opinions on the multi and zma. Who is right? Lol

Multi after meal (i prefer in the morning)
Zma before sleep

[knoxxelig]

Pure speculation, but it could be fairly soon. I assume there is a reason Martin has stopped taking on clients for the time being.
well, first of all i'd say its gonna be a while since martins leangains business is running more than well and a book would probably just be all over the internet a week after the release.

as far as i know, martin and lyle ended their relationship. thats what martin said on his facebook page and he clearly stated that it was no joke

[hankst]

Based from Martin's recommendations;

NO, you don't take multi's during a fast. Multi's are to be taken with a meal.

Don't know about zma, but just take them with the a meal.

Fat soluble vitamins. That's why you take your multi with a meal.

[chuntbaby]

Been on IF for abit and have taken sp max (2 scoops) PRE workout. Which would b about 25 cals but I wanna use my glycergrow again and it had 56 cals from fat according to the lable.

I guess my question is what would b the max cals from a PRE workout any of the more experienced IFers have used and still felt the fasted training benefits / how much would be pushing it or breaking the fast.

I break my fast right after training also if that matters at all to this situation.

[heytred]

This Info is for all people who haven't tried the IF method yet and are just beginning. This is specifically for people who are coming out of the regular couple of meals a day way of eating.

I don't think there are any one of use who came out of a regular couple of meals a day way of eating, then tried IF for one month and haven't lost weight.
For people who are like "It's been a couple of days and I wanna ask if..." just forget about it.
If you concentrate on breaking your fast with a protein and carb mix post workout then having another meal later in the day, you definitely will lose fat.

When I tried it the first time in a month, I actually felt like I was eating above my maintenance. my post w/o meal would be a plate of rice and diced chicken which I think would weigh around 200g rice and 300g of chicken, including skin. so you can imagine how heavy that meal was. I would also add to the rice some ketchup and tartar sauce. my second meal, well actually a snack, would be a handful of nuts and m/b a protein shake when I reach home
Weight training was a 5/ day split and no cardio at all.

I think for you guys a better approach would be "I've been on IF for a month and.... my question is....."
I think everyone who was serious about IF when they began would vow for this. Every single one of us lost weight the first month, It's after that period where you should start being anal about stuff and begin asking your questions/experiences.

Duly noted.

[texmo]

Do you guys find it hard to sleep on this diet?

I have been on it for a while now and I am having difficulty getting to sleep. Maybe its all the coffee...

[ErickStevens]

Do you guys find it hard to sleep on this diet?

I have been on it for a while now and I am having difficulty getting to sleep. Maybe its all the coffee...

On the contrary, my sleep is fantastic while IFing. Lots of calories/carbs before bed = Sleepy time!

[TheRagingboxer]

Do you guys find it hard to sleep on this diet?

I have been on it for a while now and I am having difficulty getting to sleep. Maybe its all the coffee...

When do you have your coffee? I have had the best sleep since switching over to this way of eating/life.

I have my coffee at 4am feast from 11am-7pm. Feel full and have tons of energy for my morning sessions.

[t1ger]

Any news on when the book with Lyle is gonna come out?2 more weeks.

[fitlover]

On the contrary, my sleep is fantastic while IFing. Lots of calories/carbs before bed = Sleepy time!

This!

[Calhexas]

Okay I either didn't eat enough in my 3rd meal or need to eat slower digesting foods because I AM STARVING!!!

Still have 3hrs to go.

feelsbadman.jpg

[R_V_P]

I think we should have some sort of IF write up on here.

I really like IF and martins approach and it has been working well for me but I have to say, actually getting the information from his blog isn't easy. The articles are all over the place and the leangains guide itself isn't as organized as it could be. If anyone here is in contact with Martin could you ask his permission for us to make a FAQ for IF. Similar to this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=553453753#post553453753

I feel much less repetitive questions would be asked because instead of trawling through his blog the newbies could just read the OP.

[kels_88]

2 more weeks.

Source?

[texmo]

Dropping water weight.

I got a fight next week day before weight in. I am 78.3kgs this morning and have to weight in at 74kgs.
I am drinking 4 ltrs of water a day however I am going to up this to 6ltrs. The night before I will do a couple shots of vodka and then sauna on the day. This should allow for 3kilos in water weight.

What do you guys think?

[kels_88]

Agreed. Even in the leangains guide, the schedules can be a little difficult to wrap your head around. Plus a consolidation of recommendations on supplementation would likely greatly reduce the number of repetitive questions here.

[texmo]

When do you have your coffee? I have had the best sleep since switching over to this way of eating/life.

I have my coffee at 4am feast from 11am-7pm. Feel full and have tons of energy for my morning sessions.

Last coffee was at 5pm. Its now 2:21am here and I have a meeting at 7am FUUUUUU

[texmo]

Please note this is note healthy to do!

I have a match coming up with a day before weigh in so I am looking to cut as much weight as possible in water. This way I can keep as much muscle as possible and will be much heavier on the day.

To do this I am going to consider three things. First I will need to dehydrate my body. Second I will need to rehydrate my body. Third I will need to load up on carbohydrates.

Dehydration, A)10 days out from event I will start drinking 6ltr /1.5galons of water per day. This way I will start to naturally get rid of all water. B)Cut out all sodium 14 days out from event. This will reduce the amount of water my body will hold naturally. C)Night before drink two shots of vodka. Alcohol is a natural diuretic and will help me achieve my goal. D)Chew gum and spit out the saliva on the day. Horrible but works. E)On the day do some HIIT (high intensity interval training) with a sweat suit on and/or a jumper/sweat shirt. F)Sauna on the day G)Weight loss pill or Caffeine pill - drinking coffee will actually hydrate you more.

The above 7 things are all I could find when researching the matter. I dont believe doing all would be healthy

Hydration, A)consumption of electrolytes. B)baking soda in water - I couldn't find the science behind this however its a common remedy to dehydration. Can anybody help me with this? C)Magnesium, Vitamin C and a Multi Vitamin. Get some minerals back that you have lost.

Hydration, To rehydrate the body back to optimum efficiency consume the following; electrolyte's baking soda in water magnesium multi vitamin vitamin C watered down orange juice

Now the Carb load. Dont eat any carbs 3-4 days prior to event. After the weight in consume 12grams of carbohydrate for every Kilo of lean mass. That is about 4kilos of bananas for me.

thoughts?

[Itadienekes]

How much weight do you have to lose? How much time? See my comments in red below...


Please note this is note healthy to do!

I have a match coming up with a day before weigh in so I am looking to cut as much weight as possible in water. This way I can keep as much muscle as possible and will be much heavier on the day.

To do this I am going to consider three things. First I will need to dehydrate my body. Second I will need to rehydrate my body. Third I will need to load up on carbohydrates.

Dehydration, A)10 days out from event I will start drinking 6ltr /1.5galons of water per day. GOOD! Don't need to start quite that early, 7 days out is enough, 1.5-2 gallons a day are optimal. This way I will start to naturally get rid of all water. B)Cut out all sodium 14 days out from event. This will reduce the amount of water my body will hold naturally. BIG NO NO! DO NOT cut out sodium that far out, it is counterproductive and even dangerous! You actually want to INCREASE sodium intake at the same time as you increase your water intake, and only cut out sodium the last ~2-3 days before weigh-ins when I also recommend switching to distilled water. You should drink 2 gallons distilled water/day for 2 days up to ~24 hours before the weigh-in, then stop drinking anything at all C)Night before drink two shots of vodka. Alcohol is a natural diuretic and will help me achieve my goal. Also a NO NO. Depending on what type of event you're doing, this will hurt your conditioning. Instead, drink some coffee and/or pop a caffeine pill, something you can do the morning of weigh-ins.D) Chew gum and spit out the saliva on the day. Horrible but works. E)On the day do some HIIT (high intensity interval training) with a sweat suit on and/or a jumper/sweat shirt. BAD! You won't have the energy to do HIIT the day of weigh-ins and it will be VERY counterproductive for your event the next day. Instead focus on SLOW cardio, very slow, to break a sweat & maintain a sweat, so slow that you don't notice much, but can keep it up for ~1 hour, and alternate it with -> F)Sauna on the day G)Weight loss pill or Caffeine pill - drinking coffee will actually hydrate you more. Drinking coffee will only hydrate you more if you drink A LOT of it. I do agree though that a caffeine pill is better.

The above 7 things are all I could find when researching the matter. I dont believe doing all would be healthy

Hydration, A)consumption of electrolytes. B)baking soda in water - I couldn't find the science behind this however its a common remedy to dehydration. Can anybody help me with this? C)Magnesium, Vitamin C and a Multi Vitamin. Get some minerals back that you have lost.

Hydration, To rehydrate the body back to optimum efficiency consume the following; electrolyte's baking soda in water magnesium multi vitamin vitamin C watered down orange juice

Now the Carb load. Dont eat any carbs 3-4 days prior to event. After the weight in consume 12grams of carbohydrate for every Kilo of lean mass. That is about 4kilos of bananas for me.

thoughts?

You have the general idea down, just a few details you NEED to fix.
Trust me, I've gone through weight cuts a half gazzilion times ;)

Good luck!

[fitlover]

Please note this is note healthy to do!

I have a match coming up with a day before weigh in so I am looking to cut as much weight as possible in water. This way I can keep as much muscle as possible and will be much heavier on the day.


DO NOT do all of those things at once. You're going to end up wearing yourself out.

First of all, how much weight do you have to cut? Is it an 18, 24, or 2 hour weigh-in?

This article was written for powerlifters, but the same method can be applied to other athletes who need to make weight. I suggest you give it a read:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/making_weight.htm


Also, rehydrate with pedialyte if possible. Gatorade works too though.

[Skimartist35]

IF'ers do any of you guys use Stevia in the Raw during the fast in drinks? What about crystal light?

Currently I have a splash of almond milk with my am coffee (5 cals) and sometimes a glass of crystal light around noon (prob 10 cals).

Any thoughts on this? Not sure whether you guys are hardcore with it, I know Martin says splash of milk and no cal sweeteners are ok, just wondering what the consensus is.

thanks

[fitlover]

IF'ers do any of you guys use Stevia in the Raw during the fast in drinks? What about crystal light?

Currently I have a splash of almond milk with my am coffee (5 cals) and sometimes a glass of crystal light around noon (prob 10 cals).

Any thoughts on this? Not sure whether you guys are hardcore with it, I know Martin says splash of milk and no cal sweeteners are ok, just wondering what the consensus is.

thanks

Argh. Fasting is not an on/off switch.

Fasted state simply means that there is no food in your body to digest. Even 50-60 calories is not technically enough to break a fast, or at least not for long.

There are plenty of IFers who have success drinking FULL FAT cream in their coffee throughout their fast, myself included. Some people are anal about it, but that's their choice. Makes a negligible difference. So long as you're not drinking half a cup of cream, you'll be fine.

Read this blog post:

http://theleansaloon.com/2010/09/14/intermittent-fasting-cream-in-your-coffee/

[benwin21]

I don't think there are any one of use who came out of a regular couple of meals a day way of eating, then tried IF for one month and haven't lost weight.
For people who are like "It's been a couple of days and I wanna ask if..." just forget about it.
If you concentrate on breaking your fast with a protein and carb mix post workout then having another meal later in the day, you definitely will lose fat.

When I tried it the first time in a month, I actually felt like I was eating above my maintenance. my post w/o meal would be a plate of rice and diced chicken which I think would weigh around 200g rice and 300g of chicken, including skin. so you can imagine how heavy that meal was. I would also add to the rice some ketchup and tartar sauce. my second meal, well actually a snack, would be a handful of nuts and m/b a protein shake when I reach home
Weight training was a 5/ day split and no cardio at all.


i know what your saying. my 2nd day of IF, and my PWO meal of 350g of chicken breast, glass of milk and around 20-50g of cottage cheese felt like the biggest meal i have ever had.

feelsgood.jpg

[fitlover]

i know what your saying. my 2nd day of IF, and my PWO meal of 350g of chicken breast, glass of milk and around 20-50g of cottage cheese felt like the biggest meal i have ever had.

feelsgood.jpg

LOL wut?!?!

[ErickStevens]

Fourth day of fasted training, fourth day in a row of setting a new PR.

[Flyin Ryan]

Fourth day of fasted training, fourth day in a row of setting a new PR.

Feels good man.

===============

I've been fasting intermittently for almost a year now, and my lifts have skyrocketed. Oh yeah... my body composition has improved greatly as well. Not saying this couldn't have happened if I followed a more traditional eating schedule... but I'm just another guy proving that IF does indeed produce results.

Bench: 155 --> 230
Deads: 175 --> 330
Squats: 165 --> 300
Military: 90 ---> 145

/coolstorybro

[Thefokusas]

I have a question about IF, if at the end of my eating window,which for me is about 21:00,and its my last meal, I eat food, which have about 50grams of casein, and it digests very long time, can i count that i started my fast at 21:00, even if food stays in stomach for lots of hours? (i hope you people get the point, becouse my english is pretty bad)

[knoxxelig]

yes, thats the point. if you eat 60g of casein as your least meal and we are talking about an absorbtion rate of 6g per hour, your body is supplied with amino acids for 10 hours.

[Thefokusas]

yes, thats the point. if you eat 60g of casein as your least meal and we are talking about an absorbtion rate of 6g per hour, your body is supplied with amino acids for 10 hours.

Thanks for reply, so the insulin goes back to normal faster than casein is absorbed?

[razer1]

Some oppinions on mine previous question?

[J.Thomas]

back from ban camp..





started IF monday and loving it. gotta rework my windows every now and then since im on shift work and pulling 12 hour shifts this month.

took a pic of some stuff i ate post workout. literally took me about an hour to eat cuz when i finished 1 meal i was in process of making the other.

Pizza from calliflower crust w/ toppings were 9slices oven roasted chicken breast (sandwich meat, didnt feel like baking chicken breast), some tomato sauce and 3 slices american cheese w/ sprinkled garlic and herb salt free seasoning.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3083453&stc=1&d=1297374698
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3083463&stc=1&d=1297374698

tried making some protein pancakes with JUST egg white and protein powder. looked nice, turned out DRYYY. still smashed it tho.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3083433&stc=1&d=1297374698
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3083473&stc=1&d=1297374698

and didnt take pics of the 1/2 cup oatmeal and 8oz unsweetened almond milk w/ 1 scoop myo vanilla.





also made some protein bread. came out great. nice and moist and taste like a banana bread type deal (didnt even use bannana) throw a slice in a toaster and sprinkle some sweetener. or make PB/J sammich is even better
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3083483&stc=1&d=1297374698