Bikini Comp

[regl8r]

Hey Ladies, I'm a personal trainer helping a client prepare for a bikini comp... before we met she already ordered a program off the internet that is supposdly customized to the client so she just wants my help going through the program. It is VERY cookie cutterish and is basically supersetting exercises all the time. While it gives her a tough workout, I feel like she is going about training the wrong way.

Her comp is in 5 months, 25% bodyfat and in my opinion lacking in the glutes. What is a typical bf for a bikini competitor?

IMHO she should be lifting heavy and building muscle(specifically glutes) instead of circuit training and essentially be recomping rather than an all out cut at this point in time. We dont see eye to eye on this.

I'm VERY confident in my ablities to manipulate body comp, but would just like some input from someone with experience in this specific area.

TIA

[rockangel]

Hey Ladies, I'm a personal trainer helping a client prepare for a bikini comp... before we met she already ordered a program off the internet that is supposdly customized to the client so she just wants my help going through the program. It is VERY cookie cutterish and is basically supersetting exercises all the time. While it gives her a tough workout, I feel like she is going about training the wrong way.

Her comp is in 5 months, 25% bodyfat and in my opinion lacking in the glutes. What is a typical bf for a bikini competitor?

IMHO she should be lifting heavy and building muscle(specifically glutes) instead of circuit training and essentially be recomping rather than an all out cut at this point in time. We dont see eye to eye on this.

I'm VERY confident in my ablities to manipulate body comp, but would just like some input from someone with experience in this specific area.

TIA

Honestly, if she is that high in BF and needs to recomp (especially building the glutes) then she is not going to be ready for the comp.

Bikini competitors come in with higher body fat than figure girls, but they still are around 15 -16% and some may need to be lower depending on the girl. So you are basically trying to get her to drop 10% bf in 5 months. Probably not going to happen, or if it does, its going to not be a good look for stage. IMO, you need to be around 18% BF 4-5 months out so you can drop bf slowly.

If she is new to lifting, then 5 months of training isnt enough even for bikini, especially if she is lacking in glutes. You only get a front and back stance. thats it, thats all you are judged on is front and back. IMO, if you aint got the back, then stay home. I have seen contests won and lost on those glutes.

I agree with you, she should be lifting heavy and recomping, not worrying about trying for a show. Even bikini girls need some muscle, its not just about being skinny.

But thats, just my opinions and my experiences from shows, my own training for bikini, and what i have seen and heard from other girls.

[regl8r]

Thanks for the response

Just a little more background. She has been in a comp before (didn't do well). But she still has a solid base, basically she's been inactive/partying blah blah blah. For this reason I see her getting to 20% fairly quickly because she is dedicated.

I would just rather have her doing heavy squats/deads/GHR/etc than supersetting cable squats/curtsey lunges/etc to get to that 20%.

I think the big problem is she dropped $300 on this 3 month program and she doesn't want to be told she wasted her money :/

[rockangel]

Thanks for the response

Just a little more background. She has been in a comp before (didn't do well). But she still has a solid base, basically she's been inactive/partying blah blah blah. For this reason I see her getting to 20% fairly quickly because she is dedicated.

I would just rather have her doing heavy squats/deads/GHR/etc than supersetting cable squats/curtsey lunges/etc to get to that 20%.

I think the big problem is she dropped $300 on this 3 month program and she doesn't want to be told she wasted her money :/

How long ago was the comp? what body fat was she at? why did she not do well?
what is her height/weight?

I dont care what kind of base she has, i just dont see her going from 25% - 15% in 5 months and coming out healthy and looking comp ready. Even if she goes from 25 - 20 in 2 months (which i just dont see) that still leaves 3 months to go from 20 - 15, which i REALLY dont see happening. I mean thats 12 weeks to pull off what most competitors do in 16 - 20 weeks. And coming in at 20 isnt going to cut it.

Even if she is "dedicated", that leaves no room for errors, no room for platues, and IMO she will need to scrap the circuit (which i am not a big fan of anyways) and lift heavy to maintain what muscle she has. There will be NO room/time for building glutes and recomping will be too slow to meet the deadline.

Let me quote Emma Leigh on this. This is in reference to yet another girl who wantes to compete in bikini and is not ready:
"As M said - the first point for females is that 18-20% mark... Once you get under that, the female body tends to kick up a stink and even getting from 18-20 down to 15% is a task in itself.

The 15-16% mark is just a good 'rough' starting figure I use for a (non-drugged) 12 week prep... IF you know what you are doing....

If you think about it -> say you were at 15% and 115#.... You need to drop another ~ 3% to be 'stage ready' for figure. And that is 3.5#. Factor in some inevitable lean mass loss (up to 33% at that point) and you'll need about another 5#.

5# in 10 weeks (once again - I suggest being READY 2 weeks out) doesn't seem much, but with all the metabolic whacky that happens at that point in the game + having had dieted for some time beforehand.... + dealing with all the other things that happen during the last few weeks.... Then you see what you are potentially up against. [.5# a week of FAT loss].

Adding more numbers:
115# and 15% with moderate activity in the gym (ie: ~ 5 x a week with no crazy 2 x a day cardio sessions), + maintaining good activity OUT of the gym (ie: not a desk job but moving throughout the day). You'd likely be maintaining on ~ 1950 cals.
Add a metabolic decrease associated with dieting for a number of weeks [say, 10%] and that becomes ~ 1750 cals to maintain.
Add in the deficit required to pull .5# a week and that is ~ 400 cals / day and that becomes 1350 cals a day.

Ouch.... "

This is what I mean, you just are not going to get this chick to drop body fat AND build glutes because at this point she has no room to do both.

Sorry but she is either going to go in too high in BF or be too stringy and "not do well" just like last comp.

But, hey, its not my client or my name, so if you want to send an untrained unprepared female onto the stage, with her telling everyone YOU trained her, and having potential clients look at her as proof of what you can do for them, then go ahead.

If it were me i would tell her the best that could be hoped for is a body recomp in 5 months, she can get to 18% and then see about a comp later in the year. Why does she have to do THIS comp???

[regl8r]

Very informative response, thanks... you basically just confirmed most of what I was thinking. While I train her, I really don't see her as "my client" at this point bc were using someone elses philosophy which I deffinitly don't agree with.

I beleive she said her last comp was 2009 so quite a while ago. She came in at 15-16% but mentioned she wish she was lower, I imagine this was because she didn't have enough muscle rather than wrong bf.

At this point I think I'm going to do exactly as you said and give her the cold hard truth. Either take the next few months to get stronger/build muscle/recomp and see where your at or continue doing what your doing and be dissapointed with the outcome.

[sonti]

She sounds like the (very) typical girl who does not want to put on the mass before stepping on stage (and c'mon, it's bikini!!), esp. if she came in at 15-16% and was still unsatisfied. Not sure what you can do about someone like that - we get those girls in here all the time, they get angry, tell us to piss off, then storm out :)

[medjen]

we get those girls in here all the time, they get angry, tell us to piss off, then storm out :)

Usually after some dude has come in and told her that she looks great and should do the show even if she's not ready so she can "gain experience" :rolleyes:

[rockangel]

Very informative response, thanks... you basically just confirmed most of what I was thinking. While I train her, I really don't see her as "my client" at this point bc were using someone elses philosophy which I deffinitly don't agree with.

I beleive she said her last comp was 2009 so quite a while ago. She came in at 15-16% but mentioned she wish she was lower, I imagine this was because she didn't have enough muscle rather than wrong bf.

At this point I think I'm going to do exactly as you said and give her the cold hard truth. Either take the next few months to get stronger/build muscle/recomp and see where your at or continue doing what your doing and be dissapointed with the outcome.


She sounds like the (very) typical girl who does not want to put on the mass before stepping on stage (and c'mon, it's bikini!!), esp. if she came in at 15-16% and was still unsatisfied. Not sure what you can do about someone like that - we get those girls in here all the time, they get angry, tell us to piss off, then storm out :)

^^^^^ I pretty much suspected this.

If you dont consider her your client, i would def lay it out to her straight.

What is going to happen is she is just going to repeat the comp in 2009, and if thats all she wants then her $300 program will get her the same results she has all ready seen. She may hit the body fat but she is just going to look the same. If that makes her happy to look the same, cut her lose with what she all ready has. If she is mad and doesnt want to hear it, cut her lose with what she all ready has.

Your life and time are too short to waste on people who dont want to listen to you.

If she wants to change and be better, then do a recomp over the next 5 - 6 months or until BF is down to around 18 and assess the readiness. I wouldnt even pick a comp until you get her to this point. Lift heavy, eat correct cals and macros, rest and lay off the partying. Sounds like you know the rest :)

[juliacheh]

Usually after some dude has come in and told her that she looks great and should do the show even if she's not ready so she can "gain experience" :rolleyes:

Exactly, I've seen this multiple times here.
And god forbid I tell somebody that she is not ready for a show. I'm a jealous old lady, nasty bitch etc...

Good-looking young girl is not the same as "being ready to step on stage".
Rockangel definitely deserves reps for this, but she is on my spread already.

[sonti]

Exactly, I've seen this multiple times here.
And god forbid I tell somebody that she is not ready for a show. I'm a jealous old lady, nasty bitch etc...


Or you are as cuddly as a cactus http://assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Where are the misc trolls with their white knight pictures when you need them? They really need to step up their game and join in on those threads where idiot men are falling over a skinny girl who wants to step on stage and show off her 'muscle'.

But hell what do we know, it's not like any of us have spent years trying to build muscle with low levels of testosterone????

[juliacheh]

Or you are as cuddly as a cactus http://assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Where are the misc trolls with their white knight pictures when you need them? They really need to step up their game and join in on those threads where idiot men are falling over a skinny girl who wants to step on stage and show off her 'muscle'.

But hell what do we know, it's not like any of us have spent years trying to build muscle with low levels of testosterone????

Yeah, now my husband calls me "my cuddly cactus" (I showed him the thread).
Me and that guy had our differences resolved, but the whole attitude just blows my mind.