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View Full Version : What is more important for a DB Row?



BrandonH20
10-23-2010, 02:42 PM
I can do more weight without having a pause at the top of my rep, but if I drop it 5-10 lbs per set at what I'm currently doing (Ex: 60 without pause, 50 with pause) I can manage to hold the DB at the peak of the movement for a second or two. I'm not sure whether I should continue using a little heavier weight or whether I should drop it so I can have that little squeeze.

W8isGR8
10-23-2010, 03:04 PM
Db rows aren't a peak contraction exercise, so I don't worry about holding it at the top. Just go as heavy as you can without cheating the weight up

BrandonH20
10-23-2010, 03:10 PM
Db rows aren't a peak contraction exercise, so I don't worry about holding it at the top. Just go as heavy as you can without cheating the weight up

Can you give me an example of cheating it up?

W8isGR8
10-23-2010, 03:26 PM
Twisting your body, jerking the weight up, etc

BrandonH20
10-23-2010, 03:28 PM
Well then looks like I've probably been cheating them anyways! I tend to jerk the weight up instead of doing it more controlled. Thanks for the help.

InclineVet
10-23-2010, 03:31 PM
Db rows aren't a peak contraction exercise, so I don't worry about holding it at the top. Just go as heavy as you can without cheating the weight up

Agreed.

OP: Use cables for contraction instead of db's.

W8isGR8
10-23-2010, 03:36 PM
Agreed.

OP: Use cables for contraction instead of db's.
Don't confuse the boy. He should stick with db's

Moloholo
10-23-2010, 07:48 PM
Don't confuse the boy. He should stick with db's

hmm whats the difference? recently i've been doing one arm db rows. haven't tried one arm cable row yet. =/

Dominik
10-23-2010, 09:14 PM
Db rows aren't a peak contraction exercise, so I don't worry about holding it at the top. Just go as heavy as you can without cheating the weight upAgree with your advice but not being able to pause at the top of the movement can be a reliable indication they're trying to row too much weight.

W8isGR8
10-23-2010, 10:26 PM
Agree with your advice but not being able to pause at the top of the movement can be a reliable indication they're trying to row too much weight.
So we have to pause each rep? Does that mean anyone who doesn't pause for a few seconds at the bottom of every squat rep is using too much weight? How about pullups, I sure as sh*t don't hold my reps at the top. Lol

ZoranM
10-24-2010, 01:00 AM
I can do more weight without having a pause at the top of my rep, but if I drop it 5-10 lbs per set at what I'm currently doing (Ex: 60 without pause, 50 with pause) I can manage to hold the DB at the peak of the movement for a second or two. I'm not sure whether I should continue using a little heavier weight or whether I should drop it so I can have that little squeeze.

Since you feel the need to ask this question, you must be fairly 'new' to DB rows.
Don't be concerned much about the pause at the top. Half a second is enough,just to prevent you from purely 'swinging' up and down.
Don't jerk. Learn good form first. DB rows are an exercise where a slight cheat can bring great advantage, but you should wait a few years before doing that deliberately for a purpose.

MattyG
10-24-2010, 01:23 AM
Agree with your advice but not being able to pause at the top of the movement can be a reliable indication they're trying to row too much weight.

For noobs yes, but the more experienced lifter knows when he needs to worry about a peak contraction and when he needs to just get a weight moving.

Dominik
10-24-2010, 05:20 AM
So we have to pause each rep? Does that mean anyone who doesn't pause for a few seconds at the bottom of every squat rep is using too much weight? How about pullups, I sure as sh*t don't hold my reps at the top. LolThat's not what I said.

Most people try to row with too much weight. Being able to pause it at the top is an indicator you're moving a weight you're in control of as opposed to cheating the hell out of it which most likely does sweet f*ck all for the lats and upper back muscles.

Same principle can apply to most exercises. Laterals come to mind. If you're flapping your arms like a wounded bird to make those reps and you're unable pause them at the top, then you're probably using too much weight. If you can't pause at your chin doing lat pulldown then you're probably one of those dicks who swings back with their bodyweight. Ditto for pullups with that stupid kipping motion. The list goes on.

robbondo
10-24-2010, 09:13 AM
Ditto for pullups with that stupid kipping motion.


That has a name? People at my gym use the pull up bar like a gd trapeze.

TheStreetKing
10-24-2010, 09:22 AM
I can do more weight without having a pause at the top of my rep, but if I drop it 5-10 lbs per set at what I'm currently doing (Ex: 60 without pause, 50 with pause) I can manage to hold the DB at the peak of the movement for a second or two. I'm not sure whether I should continue using a little heavier weight or whether I should drop it so I can have that little squeeze.

If you can't hold the dumbbell at the top of the rep and pause with it then you didn't get the weight up with muscle power, You got it up there with momentum!

400Lb Gorilla
10-24-2010, 09:50 AM
strict is good. cheat is good. either way....

Rasputin4
10-24-2010, 10:00 AM
I personally think pausing for contraction for just about one second is a good idea. Not only is it a good indicator that you're not using too much weight to have good form, it also places more tension on your lats. An above poster mentioned not pausing at the bottom of a squat, but I personally do pause for maybe just a second or even half a second at the bottom of a squat, take a breath, then press the weight up - it's not good to bounce the weight up, either. It's similar to how, in bench press, it hits your pecs a little better if you pause just before lockout at the top and pause at the bottom - no bouncing the bar off your chest - to hit pecs the best. Rows might not be a peak contraction movement like a dumbell curl, but maintaining tension is always best and if you're using decent form I don't think this would affect how much weight you can lift much if at all.

__Iceman__
10-24-2010, 10:27 AM
If you can keep your body from moving relatively little then pausing isn't much of a requirement. I find that being able to do a rep slowly up *and* down means much more control. You can still pause at the top if you jerk a weight up.

W8isGR8
10-24-2010, 02:07 PM
Here's an old vid of me doing DB rows with 160. Form isn't super strict, but not sloppy or cheating.

vKLTscr4biQ


I just feel the extra weight is worth more for building muscle than worrying about being super strict. Back is probably to one muscle group that you can get away with looser form. Trying to be super strict usually results in way less reps and weight than if you just get into the "groove"

Just my opinion and experience.

MattyG
10-24-2010, 02:18 PM
Here's an old vid of me doing DB rows with 160. Form isn't super strict, but not sloppy or cheating.

[youtube]


I just feel the extra weight is worth more for building muscle than worrying about being super strict. Back is probably to one muscle group that you can get away with looser form. Trying to be super strict usually results in way less reps and weight than if you just get into the "groove"

Just my opinion and experience.

Nice - I wasn't expecting the self-supporting body-prop variation here with 160lbs!
srs

I think lifting needs a mixture of super strict and super not strict. So long as the trainee is experienced to know how to 'cheat'.

Rasputin4
10-24-2010, 02:40 PM
Here's an old vid of me doing DB rows with 160. Form isn't super strict, but not sloppy or cheating.

vKLTscr4biQ


I just feel the extra weight is worth more for building muscle than worrying about being super strict. Back is probably to one muscle group that you can get away with looser form. Trying to be super strict usually results in way less reps and weight than if you just get into the "groove"

Just my opinion and experience.

You weren't swinging the weight up, but you also weren't using full ROM.

400Lb Gorilla
10-24-2010, 03:31 PM
Here's an old vid of me doing DB rows with 160. Form isn't super strict, but not sloppy or cheating.

youtube]


I just feel the extra weight is worth more for building muscle than worrying about being super strict. Back is probably to one muscle group that you can get away with looser form. Trying to be super strict usually results in way less reps and weight than if you just get into the "groove"

Just my opinion and experience.

:eek: oh noes STRAPS!!! Lulz good lift. Heavy DBs breh, my gym only goes up to 150s and they are the rubber coated weights

JustinT24
10-24-2010, 03:37 PM
You weren't swinging the weight up, but you also weren't using full ROM.

might be true but at the end of the day is him stepping down to say 100 pounds and getting full ROM better then doing 3/4 ROM with 160?

I do DB rows with 100s because thats all we have at my gym and I won't lie I twist a little bit to get the last few on high rep ranges.


"Cheating" a little to get heavier weight is IN MY OPINION better then sticking to low weight and having picture perfect form. Its like saying if you push with your legs and your butt comes off the bench half an inch in bench press then its cheating. You aren't lifting in powerman competitions you're lifting to build your muscles and at the end of the day heavier weight with "semi-perfect" form is going to get you stronger and bigger then doing 1/2 of the weight with strict form

Dominik
10-24-2010, 03:40 PM
Here's an old vid of me doing DB rows with 160. Form isn't super strict, but not sloppy or cheating.

vKLTscr4biQ


I just feel the extra weight is worth more for building muscle than worrying about being super strict. Back is probably to one muscle group that you can get away with looser form. Trying to be super strict usually results in way less reps and weight than if you just get into the "groove"

Just my opinion and experience.If it's working for you then obviously keep doing it.

But if that was me, I'd be logging those as partial reps.

Nothing wrong with throwing in a few extra heavy sets with looser form for back, although I try to do most of my rows with strict form. At least that way I know the muscles I'm targeting are actually doing the work.

Rasputin4
10-24-2010, 05:46 PM
How often do I see people on here rag on doing half bench and half squats? Why is it acceptable to do incomplete ROM on rows? I'll be honest, I find it more acceptable to do a 3/4 squat because I find it more quad specific then I can do something else to hit hams harder, but with rows, it's all the same muscles all the way up and down.

chazzy1864
10-24-2010, 05:52 PM
Here's an old vid of me doing DB rows with 160. Form isn't super strict, but not sloppy or cheating.

[youtube]vKLTscr4biQ[youtube]


I just feel the extra weight is worth more for building muscle than worrying about being super strict. Back is probably to one muscle group that you can get away with looser form. Trying to be super strict usually results in way less reps and weight than if you just get into the "groove"

Just my opinion and experience.

Point invalid. You are using straps and from now on, all further advice from you will be disregarded and you are hereby branded a pussy.

W8isGR8
10-24-2010, 06:33 PM
If it's working for you then obviously keep doing it.

But if that was me, I'd be logging those as partial reps.

Nothing wrong with throwing in a few extra heavy sets with looser form for back, although I try to do most of my rows with strict form. At least that way I know the muscles I'm targeting are actually doing the work.

my upper arm is in line with my torso at the top. The lats don't flex the arm past that point. The point is, someone who can move a 160 lb dumbell with "loose" form can sure as sh*t move a 120 with perfect form.

If i was worried about being super strict the whole time i probably would still be stuck using the 80's.

Rasputin4
10-24-2010, 06:50 PM
my upper arm is in line with my torso at the top. The lats don't flex the arm past that point. The point is, someone who can move a 160 lb dumbell with "loose" form can sure as sh*t move a 120 with perfect form.

If i was worried about being super strict the whole time i probably would still be stuck using the 80's.


I bring the weight up until it touches my waist and my lats are flexed at that point. It's great if you can lift 120 with perfect form, but why do you then state you would be stuck with 80s? Honestly, maybe you should lower the weight a bit and use full ROM.

BigD_SEVA
10-24-2010, 06:55 PM
Point invalid. You are using straps and from now on, all further advice from you will be disregarded and you are hereby branded a pussy.

you are what ya eat chazztastic


true story though, straps for rows is sad W8

W8isGR8
10-24-2010, 07:03 PM
I bring the weight up until it touches my waist and my lats are flexed at that point. It's great if you can lift 120 with perfect form, but why do you then state you would be stuck with 80s? Honestly, maybe you should lower the weight a bit and use full ROM.

I'm saying if i was a form nazi from day one i wouldn't have made the progress i did. Everyone i've ever known around here that was a form nazi was 150 lbs doing 15lb concentration curls with perfect form.

At some point you have to stop being a bitch and throw some weight around. Don't chicken wing your curls and laterals like dom said, but sweet jesus if throwing a little body english helps knock out another 5 reps how is that worse for the muscle? More reps with more weight is a bad thing? :confused:

Obviously you shouldn't be starting rep 1 with ****ty form.

Oh yeah, Dom, remember how you always say nobody can do anything close to a 1RM deadlift with perfect form......:cool:

chazzy1864
10-24-2010, 07:29 PM
true story though, straps for rows is sad W8

:confused:

Dominik
10-25-2010, 09:53 AM
I'm saying if i was a form nazi from day one i wouldn't have made the progress i did. Everyone i've ever known around here that was a form nazi was 150 lbs doing 15lb concentration curls with perfect form.

At some point you have to stop being a bitch and throw some weight around. Don't chicken wing your curls and laterals like dom said, but sweet jesus if throwing a little body english helps knock out another 5 reps how is that worse for the muscle? More reps with more weight is a bad thing? :confused:

Obviously you shouldn't be starting rep 1 with ****ty form.

Oh yeah, Dom, remember how you always say nobody can do anything close to a 1RM deadlift with perfect form......:cool:You've got to find the right balance between those two extremes, but what I posted was directed more at beginner-intermediates who often try to row too much weight. Being able to pause at the top is a reliable indicator you're using a weight you're in control of as opposed to getting a free ride with momentum. More experienced lifters know how to cheat with their form on the heaviest sets and get results.

You've been training for a long time so you obviously know what works for you and I wouldn't question that. For me strict form on almost every set is what has been most effective.

im2manly
10-25-2010, 09:58 AM
You've got to find the right balance between those two extremes, but what I posted was directed more at beginner-intermediates who often try to row too much weight. Being able to pause at the top is a reliable indicator you're using a weight you're in control of as opposed to getting a free ride with momentum. More experienced lifters know how to cheat with their form on the heaviest sets and get results.

You've been training for a long time so you obviously know what works for you and I wouldn't question that. For me strict form on almost every set is what has been most effective.

^this. There is no hard and fast rule as to how one should lift, they will very from person to person based on experience. For me personally, strict form and then cheat once strict form fails works best, but that doesn't mean it will be best for someone else. People need to listen to their own bodies/experiences more.

ironwill2008
10-25-2010, 10:14 AM
How often do I see people on here rag on doing half bench and half squats? Why is it acceptable to do incomplete ROM on rows?

Apples to oranges.

It's not necessarily what the arm is doing with Dumbbell Rows, but what the shoulder blade is doing. If the shoulder is being pulled up/towards the center of the back, then the back muscles are being worked.

This is a 'touchy' subject; noobs will nearly always take it the wrong way, try to then use a boatload of weight, and get no back work/injure a biceps tendon. If a person has to ask, he/she should just try to stay with a full ROM/strict form on this exercise. Leave the experimenting with form for when you are more experienced with how your body mechanics relates to specific movements.