Product endorsement

[irishmickk]

I don't want to be too specific but basically I have a new piece of gym equipment which i am trying to launch. I was thinking of getting a fighter to endorse it and I have been talking to one of the above people. It's just I'm from Ireland and it's hard for me to gauge what the public opinion or popularity of this person is in the states. So which one of the above fighters would be best suited or well received or would you choose if you had a product to launch?

[pumping4life]

I would take Tyson out of your poll.

At one time, he was very popular, but he has really become a psycho animal and not in a good way. He would likely distract from your product and add a negative connotation to it.

I really used to like this guy. Now every time I hear his name, I cringe because I know it can't be good.

[Keetman]

I would take Tyson out of your poll.

At one time, he was very popular, but he has really become a psycho animal and not in a good way. He would likely distract from your product and add a negative connotation to it.

I really used to like this guy. Now every time I hear his name, I cringe because I know it can't be good.



That's funny, when I started to read your post I took your first line to mean you thought Tyson would be the best one.

I just did the Burt stare at the computer screen.......

Ya, I can't see Tyson being a good choice.



I don't know anything about marketing really, but I'm torn on all of those. I would imagine that Holyfield is the best "known" name across the country, but that may not even be true as I'm a little older than I'd like to admit. If Shamrock is more widely known than I think he is (across the board....not to mma or young crowds)....I'd say him.......but isn't he kind of controversial? I'm not really an MMA guy, but I do watch the fights and the show occasionally........seems like a lot of people love him or hate him.

The other two.....nada.

[Wildtim]

I've only heard of Tyson and Holyfield he other two don't even cause a blip on my radar.

I wouldn't ever consider buying anything with tysons name on it. In fact his endorsement would make me avoid the product, even if boxing related.

Of course I know little to nothing about boxing or fighting sports. I consider MMA an abomination to the spirit of martial arts so generally reject anything MMA related on principle. At least when they call it a brawl or a ultimate fight they are being honest but to call it a martial arts exhibition as I have seen some described make me ill.

Keep in mind I'm not young and I am pretty opinionated coming from a strong pure oriental martial tradition.

[desslok]

I have the most respect for Shamrock personally.

[pumping4life]

That's funny, when I started to read your post I took your first line to mean you thought Tyson would be the best one.

I just did the Burt stare at the computer screen.......

Ya, I can't see Tyson being a good choice.

That's great.

I've only seen some side shots of you here on the boards, but I had a very vivid idea of what you might look like with the Bert stare.

I think with these 4 choices, you need to consider your target audience. If it is a 35+ crowd, Holyfield might be a good choice. Although I haven't seen any recent pics to know what kind of shape he's in. If you're after a younger set, one of the other non-Tyson choices would likely be better.

[cgc]

Out of those four, while Tyson has called down with age...he's really hurt his reputation.....

That being said, it would be a draw for me between Holyfield and Shamrock. I think you would be able to get Shamrock for less than Holyfield, but he's not as mainstream and I've "heard" he can be difficult to deal with at times.

I would say it would be a draw for my on Holyfield and Shamrock.



Stay clear from Kimbo....he's quite the laughing stock at this point. The guy seems like a super nice guy....but if you want someone who's respected in the field....dodge him like a syphilitic prostitute.

[Keetman]

...............syphilitic prostitute.



Oh to have known the things you should be dodging when you were 20.....


:D





I was kind of thinking the same thing about Slice. Like I said, I don't really follow mma (or whatever it is he does). But, I've seen enough to understand that his fights don't seem to be sanction (or weren't), he seems to be kind of street fighterish, I actually saw one of his fights in what looked to be in a hotel conference room (may not have been), and he has an entourage that actually got involved in that fight.....it was weird.

Anyway, he seems very circus sideshow like and I doubt that many people at all would know who he is unless they had some introduction to this type of fighting.



Hey Tim......I understand what you're saying about fighting and the martial arts. But, there is apparently something in us as humans that makes this sort of thing interesting.......its been going on in some form or other for a very long time (gladiators??). Boxing was very important for a long, long time; but they kind of made their own bed I think with the corruption, sideshowness, Tyson's shenanigans, and 30 second hyped up fights that cost $100 to rent on PPV.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but there was a hole and somebody filled it. I believe at this point the horse is out of the barn.



As far as looking at it from a "traditional" point of view, I dunno, I think its kind of interesting. This is hand to hand combat, you can call it an "art" if you want to (I'm not saying it can't be looked at in that way while accruing skill and mastering the form).....but at the end of the day its a fist to a face......combat.

Personally, I think its interesting to see different forms of fighting being allowed in one ring. There are rules to keep it legit and "safe", but there are no rules on what technique is allowed to be used. That makes it feasible to put one "artform" up against another to see if one has an advantage. I like it, even though I don't really follow it all that closely.

I just don't like the theatrics and the hype.....but I guess that's as old as the concept of public fights as well. I imagine they'll get as stupid as boxing did eventually; but what a shame. Who is the heavyweight champion of the world right now anyway???? Does anybody care anymore??? My how they screwed that up.

[ndmike99]

I have the most respect for Shamrock personally.

Not that I often go for endorsement ads, but I would respect his endorsement the most.

[yankeemarko1]

Holyfield - a punch drunk boxer who won't retire and sells the Real Deal Grill, a complete rip-off of the Foreman grill. Guess he couldn't think of anything better.

Slice - a complete joke as a MMA fighter, guess it's back to backyard fighting on the net

Tyson - a convicted rapist psycho who bit off the 1st guy's ear and had a tattoo on his face

Shamrock - a good MMA fighter in his day, former WWF wrestler

Out of these four guys, I would take Shamrock.

[Wildtim]

Hey Tim......I understand what you're saying about fighting and the martial arts. But, there is apparently something in us as humans that makes this sort of thing interesting.......its been going on in some form or other for a very long time (gladiators??). Boxing was very important for a long, long time; but they kind of made their own bed I think with the corruption, sideshowness, Tyson's shenanigans, and 30 second hyped up fights that cost $100 to rent on PPV.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but there was a hole and somebody filled it. I believe at this point the horse is out of the barn.


I do like to watch good boxing but you are right they pretty much have screwed themselves as a popular sport.

It's not that I mind the fighting or even the martial arts being used its just the way a lot of people are looking at it like these are really well trained marital artists going at it when the fact is that the best brawler seems to win more often than not. As for them being fair and allowing all martial arts to compete against one another, not at all. Most of your more disciplined arts, ones that have the best killing and best non-lethal self defense records in actual encounters will never succeed in the ring, they just aren't made for brawling where the object isn't to eliminate your opponent.

[Wildtim]

possibly and typing errors.

I'll own them.

Fixed.

[irishmickk]

Holyfield - a punch drunk boxer who won't retire and sells the Real Deal Grill, a complete rip-off of the Foreman grill. Guess he couldn't think of anything better.




Haha I had never heard of that, its embarrassing. Here's the ad for it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6i-Cc5jdCQ

Thanks everyone for the input, so far it has confirmed what I suspected with one or two surprises.

[energenetic]

don't know who shamrock is, so take that into consideration. def none of the other guys though. two are past their prime, and slice just doesn't seem like a reputable name for endorsing anything.

if i saw a product with any of their mugs i'd laugh. and that's coming from someone who practically idolized tyson when he was in his prime.

one product endorsement that is also kind of laughable, but i didn't mind too much was bodylastics using terrel owens. i have a hard time believing he carries around a bunch of colored bands so he can get in a workout in his hotel. however, he's current, fit and despite my disbelief, it's soooomewhat plausible that he does in fact use them.

btw, i own the terrel owens bodylastic set.

[chantu]

gud

[desslok]

don't know who shamrock is,

Really? He was like the original UFC fighter/champ back in early 90s (93 I think), back when the UFC really meant something. Back when it was only on about once a year or so, and before everyone and their brothers and their brother's kids were taking MMA. I remember what a huge upset it was when he got beat by Gracie, and everyone rushed out to try and find a Gracie jiu jitsu school (late 90s ish?).

[ctgblue]

Tyson is out
Kimbo comes across as 'not too smart'
Shamrock is not as well known
Holyfield comes across as successful and resposible

I'd go Holyfield then Shamrock

[sonicoma]

Holyfield - a punch drunk boxer who won't retire and sells the Real Deal Grill, a complete rip-off of the Foreman grill. Guess he couldn't think of anything better.

Slice - a complete joke as a MMA fighter, guess it's back to backyard fighting on the net

Tyson - a convicted rapist psycho who bit off the 1st guy's ear and had a tattoo on his face

Shamrock - a good MMA fighter in his day, former WWF wrestler

Out of these four guys, I would take Shamrock.

I agree with you. Out of these four...got to be Shamrock.

[wolfdragon]

I would stay away from Tyson and Slice. Both strike me as willingly to do anything for some cash.
Out of Holyfield and Shamrock. Both would be good options. Guess it depends on your target audience. I voted Shamrock, because I haven't heard anything about Holyfield in I don't know how long. Though I do find Holyfield more respectable.

[cgc]

Really? He was like the original UFC fighter/champ back in early 90s (93 I think), back when the UFC really meant something. Back when it was only on about once a year or so, and before everyone and their brothers and their brother's kids were taking MMA. I remember what a huge upset it was when he got beat by Gracie, and everyone rushed out to try and find a Gracie jiu jitsu school (late 90s ish?).

Royce won the first two UFCs, and threw in the towel after he won his fight against Kimo (Royce won, but Kimo hurt him pretty badly)

I can't remember if Ken ever actually one any of the original tournament style UFCs....I'd have to go back and check.

He was more active and more successful in Pancrase than he was in the UFC...but again, I'm going from memory here.

And honestly, I don't even like the term MMA any more because it's so over done...If people ask, I just tell them the disciplines I train....end ends the conversation faster then if you say "MMA"....then everyone wants to ask you stupid questions.


I voted Shamrock, because I haven't heard anything about Holyfield in I don't know how long. Though I do find Holyfield more respectable.

Shamrock (I would say) isn't mainstream enough....and the only thing I've heard about Holyfield in some time (probably because his house/property is less than 20 miles from where I live) is that he can't keep his "mini-me" in his pants and keeps having children with anything that will stand still longer than 15 seconds....
Think he's financially strapped for cash as well....think I've heard that hey may lose his house(s), but don't quote me on that.

[desslok]

Royce won the first two UFCs, and threw in the towel after he won his fight against Kimo (Royce won, but Kimo hurt him pretty badly)

I can't remember if Ken ever actually one any of the original tournament style UFCs....I'd have to go back and check.

He was more active and more successful in Pancrase than he was in the UFC...but again, I'm going from memory here.

And honestly, I don't even like the term MMA any more because it's so over done...If people ask, I just tell them the disciplines I train....end ends the conversation faster then if you say "MMA"....then everyone wants to ask you stupid question

oh that's what I was thinking Pancrase, forgot about that. Back around the time of the movie Bloodsport , right?
I hear what you say about MMA, way overdone. Funny too, as if any martial arts AREN'T mixed. I've taken various flavors over the years, and currently in traditional Choy Li Fut, and even that is mixed, just happens that it was mixed hundreds of years ago.
Good read on shamrock here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Shamrock#First_UFC_rivalry:_Ken_Shamrock_vs_Ro yce_Gracie

[cgc]

oh that's what I was thinking Pancrase, forgot about that. Back around the time of the movie Bloodsport , right?
I hear what you say about MMA, way overdone. Funny too, as if any martial arts AREN'T mixed. I've taken various flavors over the years, and currently in traditional Choy Li Fut, and even that is mixed, just happens that it was mixed hundreds of years ago.
Good read on shamrock here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Shamrock#First_UFC_rivalry:_Ken_Shamrock_vs_Ro yce_Gracie

Yeah I've taken a "MMA" class, and really the main thing about the classes is they're good for transitioning a striking art with a grappling art and visa versa. The mechanics of your striking (specifically your stance) is going to have to change when you factor in the possibility of take downs and throws.

The main things I've trained is Muay Thai and No-Gi Submission Grappling (blend of BJJ, Wrestling, Sambo and Judo). I didn't do the MMA class too often unless I just had the time....

[Manzooka]

Royce won the first two UFCs, and threw in the towel after he won his fight against Kimo (Royce won, but Kimo hurt him pretty badly)



That was quite a fight. I remember Royce gripping Kimo's pony tail for half the fight and eventually pulling some of it out. Yikes.

Regarding the poll. I'm pretty much in agreement with the general consensus here. Shamrock would have the biggest impact on me but he's not exactly mainstream. Tyson is a whack job and Holyfield (along with several other old boxers) strikes me as someone who would put his likeness on a submarine’s screen door if it would bring in a little extra cash. Don’t know the other guy.

Best of luck.

[MaxEnergy]

Mike Tyson FTW

[916stang]

ken shamrock. or doran yates if he could do it

[Wildtim]

Well if we are just pulling in new names you gotta go with Chuck Norris, of course he doesn't endorse products except the one he uses.

http://www.denimology.com/2006/09/cn1.jpg

I'm getting really curious about this product.

[Keetman]

I know you're talking about Irishmickk's product....but the placement of your statement made me think at first you were digging Chuck's stretchy karate jeans.

:D

[Wildtim]

Opps :D

LOL

[desslok]

Well if we are just pulling in new names you gotta go with Chuck Norris, of course he doesn't endorse products except the one he uses.

http://www.denimology.com/2006/09/cn1.jpg

I'm getting really curious about this product.

I remember that ad, and I remember wanting those jeans, lol. In my defense I was probably 12 or so when I started Kenpo.

[irishmickk]

Well if we are just pulling in new names you gotta go with Chuck Norris, of course he doesn't endorse products except the one he uses.

http://www.denimology.com/2006/09/cn1.jpg

I'm getting really curious about this product.

I can't show publicly what it is yet but I could email you a vid if you want (pm me your email). I think it's a great product but then again I thought tyson was a legend who everyone loved so you will probably think it's a crap product!

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2690273&stc=1&d=1283511773

[cgc]

That was quite a fight. I remember Royce gripping Kimo's pony tail for half the fight and eventually pulling some of it out. Yikes.

Yeah, there was a lot of controversy about that (or as much as their could be considering it wasn't "illegal" for him to do that....crap, you had Keith Hackney (sp) punching Joe Son in the balls about 4 times in UFC1...so pulling hair, who cares, right?).
I'm glad it's turned from a sideshow type of event to an actual sport....Honestly can't say I've ever loved another sport as much.


Well if we are just pulling in new names you gotta go with Chuck Norris, of course he doesn't endorse products except the one he uses.

http://www.denimology.com/2006/09/cn1.jpg

I'm getting really curious about this product.

LOL - I remember reading old Martial Arts mags and seeing those adds....thought those jeans were stupid even back then....lol


I can't show publicly what it is yet but I could email you a vid if you want (pm me your email). I think it's a great product but then again I thought tyson was a legend who everyone loved so you will probably think it's a crap product!

I mean, in recent years I think Tyson has had a couple bumps with the law but in recent interviews, he seems to have matured. But I guess it just depends on which Tyson you get....
I'm a fan of the guy...but....I dunno.....not sure if I would lean into a product more so because he's endorsing it.

[Wildtim]

LOL - I remember reading old Martial Arts mags and seeing those adds....thought those jeans were stupid even back then....lol


I have to admit I wanted a pair back then too.

Sort of still do.

Back then jeans were tight, not quite like skinnies today but close, even on guys. I would have liked a little stretch without giving up the cool factor.

Now I ride a horse regularly and when on horseback you don't want loose jeans, they chafe, but thanks to a good squat regimen I have a hard time with butt to thigh fit in my jeans, especially bargain jeans. I've split several pairs mounting my horse and a couple just stepping up into my van. I actually look for a bit of give in the crotch when shopping, or just buy the $12 pairs at Walmart/Kmart and know they won't last long enough to fade.

Anyway back to your regularly scheduled thread:

Mick,

I take it this product is being marketed towards fighters?

Is it entry level, great for beginners, or is it more of a niche product for guys who want an edge?

If its entry level all the endorsement you need is someone most anyone getting into the sport will have heard of. It doesn't really matter who, it is just an eye catcher.

If it is a more advanced niche product the endorsement can't just be a name it should also be someone who is knowledgeable and seen as wise in the business. I guy who's outlasted most of his peers, or has a reputation for comebacks. He doesn't really have to be that generally recognizable as long as people in the know would respect him, it could even be a trainer not a fighter. For example if I wanted a piece of hockey conditioning equipment I would buy something endorsed by Piet Van Zant even faster than something endorsed by Datsyuk and I doubt anyone but a serious hockey fan or player has heard of him.

[irishmickk]

I have to admit I wanted a pair back then too.

Sort of still do.

Back then jeans were tight, not quite like skinnies today but close, even on guys. I would have liked a little stretch without giving up the cool factor.

Now I ride a horse regularly and when on horseback you don't want loose jeans, they chafe, but thanks to a good squat regimen I have a hard time with butt to thigh fit in my jeans, especially bargain jeans. I've split several pairs mounting my horse and a couple just stepping up into my van. I actually look for a bit of give in the crotch when shopping, or just buy the $12 pairs at Walmart/Kmart and know they won't last long enough to fade.

Anyway back to your regularly scheduled thread:

Mick,

I take it this product is being marketed towards fighters?

Is it entry level, great for beginners, or is it more of a niche product for guys who want an edge?

If its entry level all the endorsement you need is someone most anyone getting into the sport will have heard of. It doesn't really matter who, it is just an eye catcher.

If it is a more advanced niche product the endorsement can't just be a name it should also be someone who is knowledgeable and seen as wise in the business. I guy who's outlasted most of his peers, or has a reputation for comebacks. He doesn't really have to be that generally recognizable as long as people in the know would respect him, it could even be a trainer not a fighter. For example if I wanted a piece of hockey conditioning equipment I would buy something endorsed by Piet Van Zant even faster than something endorsed by Datsyuk and I doubt anyone but a serious hockey fan or player has heard of him.

It's not really a fighters product, its an mid to entry level strength training piece of kit which (I hope) will have mass market appeal, fighters should be a big market as part of that. I want the endorsement to build a brand that is instantly recognisable, I wont be relying on the endorsement to sell extra units of the product, it is more of an insurance policy eg people will be looking for the Tyson gym specifically and it will easily stick in their minds...

Either way it might or might not happen, it was very interesting to see what people think.

[MaxEnergy]

Theres no way people arent throwing Tyson up for the play. Unless youv'e never seen Tyson fight. i remember watching Mike Tyson fight and all I could remember was looking at his Abs which were complimented by his his chest and Biceps.

Hes Got chest, abs, biceps thighs and most of all Vascularity.

Now take this picture and where i put his full name and put it in Neon in the spotlights and you got yourself Tyson the man everyone wants to be like

http://www.sports-photos.com/catalog/images/MikeTyson1BW.tif.jpg





Im glad none of you boys tried to mention definition on any of these other fighters

Shamrock LOL his shorts are what a 38 and he has a 44" chest

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/243/741/Ken-Shamrock_display_image.jpg?1275409259






To end this thread read on

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2904765/John-Riddux-in-ink-tribute-to-Mike-Tyson.html

[Wildtim]

Tyson the man everyone wants to be like



What a wife beating rapist, who can't abide by the rules of humanity let alone his own sport? Or the dumbass who got a tattoo on his face and took his steroids so incorrectly he permanently messed up his voice and his virility?

You can be like tyson I prefer being a human being not a stupid animal.

[irishmickk]

What a wife beating rapist, who can't abide by the rules of humanity let alone his own sport? Or the dumbass who got a tattoo on his face and took his steroids so incorrectly he permanently messed up his voice and his virility?

You can be like tyson I prefer being a human being not a stupid animal.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I don't think he ever beat up his wife, he could fold heavyweight boxers with a single punch but she was unscathed? He would have killed her. Also I don't for a second think he raped that other girl, what exactly did she think they were going to his hotel room for, a game of scrabble? She saw an opportunity and she became very famous and made lots of money, he spent three years in prison but I doubt she batted an eyelid. She has recently been caught shoplifting which shows her deceptive nature...

Accusing him of taking steroids so incorrectly that his voice is messed up is a joke, at the age of 11 or 12 tyson looked like a fully grown man who had been lifting weights his whole life, do you think he was taking steroids at that age or do you think he might have had a hormone imbalance? Calling him a stupid animal is stepping over the line imo, here is an interesting interview he did recently, it wasn't what I expected.

http://www.details.com/culture-trends/news-and-politics/201008/interview-boxing-mike-tyson

[Essexlad]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I don't think he ever beat up his wife, he could fold heavyweight boxers with a single punch but she was unscathed? He would have killed her. Also I don't for a second think he raped that other girl, what exactly did she think they were going to his hotel room for, a game of scrabble? She saw an opportunity and she became very famous and made lots of money, he spent three years in prison but I doubt she batted an eyelid. She has recently been caught shoplifting which shows her deceptive nature...

Accusing him of taking steroids so incorrectly that his voice is messed up is a joke, at the age of 11 or 12 tyson looked like a fully grown man who had been lifting weights his whole life, do you think he was taking steroids at that age or do you think he might have had a hormone imbalance? Calling him a stupid animal is stepping over the line imo, here is an interesting interview he did recently, it wasn't what I expected.

http://www.details.com/culture-trends/news-and-politics/201008/interview-boxing-mike-tyson

I never paid enough attention to his antics outside the ring to have a real opinion, I was a bit young when all that was going on, but I agree with the bolded section.

He is certainly a household name, but you can't really argue he's not controversial though (both in and out of the ring). Whether that'd be a good or bad thing for your product, I don't know. His name wouldn't stop me buying it (if it was a good product of course!) and would probably catch my interest, but people with strong opinions on him like Tim it obviously would go against you.