Fat loss guidelines / tips once ”the game changes”

[mariusjacobsen]

First of all, my stats:

Height: 5,10
Weight: 178
BF %: 12-13% (estimate)
Macros: Protein: 190 grams / Carbs: 107 grams / Fat: 56 grams
Training scheme
2 week 3-day split. Week 1 has 2 upper and 1 lower day. Week 2 has 2 lower and 1 upper day.
Abs on off days
Low intensity, fasted cardio on all days except lower days.
Progress thus far
Cut from 186 to 178

Concerns / Issues
I’ve been battling my way from the mid teens to low teens and now I’m slowly inching my out of the teens, I’m talking bodyfat % here. I weigh in every Saturday, and so far, I’ve lost a substantial amount of weight every week, but I’m starting to notice that the weight loss is declining. So I’m trying to create a plan of action so I’m prepared once the game really changes. I’d really appreciate some suggestions on this one.

Should I up the cardio or cut the cals? I consume more than 1 gram of protein per lb of lean body mass, so maybe I can cut back on that?
Drink green tea?
Fat burner? I really don’t want to because every fat burner I’ve tried either gives me heart palpitations, keeps me up all night, or both.

Any advice to help me bust through the fat loss plateau once it hits is welcomed. I’m sure this will be helpful to other people going through the same thing.

Thanks!

[csb5731]

“The game” might not even really change for you if you are lucky, but it did for me right around 12-13% BF, I guess. And when I say it changed, I am not implying that I stopped losing fat so much (plateaus on the scale seemed more the norm, though), it's that strength loss seemed to rear it's ugly head, I generally felt more lethargic and even cold at times, I dwelled too much on thoughts of food, etc. The constant deficit would have continued to work if I could stick with it, but I don't think I could have sucked it up. And as my weights were going down in the gym, I suspect muscle loss would have been inevitable. I felt I was just getting smaller, not leaner, and it really messed with my head.

What I wasn't doing prior to that, and never had felt the need at higher %BF levels, was refeeding. I figured it would just be a symptom of weakness, lack of dedication, or outright cheating. In retrospect, a nice frequent high-carb refeed would likely have prevented some of the issues I was having.

I started carb-cycling, which in and of itself has scheduled refeeds, and it solved a lot of my issues. The low calorie/carb days weren't so bad because I was coming into them fairly well-nourished/”carb-loaded”, and there was an end in sight. I seemed to have less frequent plateaus in the fat-loss department, but part of this was because I stopped relying on the scale so much as an indicator. Weight fluctuations when carb cycling are unavoidable, and makes the scale an even less useful indicator than normal. But, I could see/measure (calipers/tape) progress, even at the weekly basis (this may have had more to do with the bodyfat range that I was entering vs. the diet approach itself).

The main advantage of the scheduled refeeds or cycling approach to me, though, was strength retention and subsequently, motivation/psychological improvements.

I did significantly less cardio “post-game change” vs. before that, mainly because I didn't feel like doing it so much. The combination of getting on the lean side and a solid deficit made it much more onerous than when I was in my mid-teens %BF and higher at a similar deficit, when I was typically doing 45min to 2 hrs of moderate intensity cardio 4-5 days/week. At that time, I kind of laughed at people doing low-intensity cardio. But then, low-intensity was all I could do unless I was in the refed state (and then, I was back to normal).

Others have reported good luck with increased cardio in reaching low %BF levels, but I suspect they either weren't eating at a large deficit or they simply have better genetics than I. In any case, it was kind of a nice time-saver for me not having to do so much cardio during the week.

[metroins]

“The game” might not even really change for you if you are lucky, but it did for me right around 12-13% BF, I guess. And when I say it changed, I am not implying that I stopped losing fat so much (plateaus on the scale seemed more the norm, though), it's that strength loss seemed to rear it's ugly head, I generally felt more lethargic and even cold at times, I dwelled too much on thoughts of food, etc. The constant deficit would have continued to work if I could stick with it, but I don't think I could have sucked it up. And as my weights were going down in the gym, I suspect muscle loss would have been inevitable. I felt I was just getting smaller, not leaner, and it really messed with my head.

What I wasn't doing prior to that, and never had felt the need at higher %BF levels, was refeeding. I figured it would just be a symptom of weakness, lack of dedication, or outright cheating. In retrospect, a nice frequent high-carb refeed would likely have prevented some of the issues I was having.

I started carb-cycling, which in and of itself has scheduled refeeds, and it solved a lot of my issues. The low calorie/carb days weren't so bad because I was coming into them fairly well-nourished/”carb-loaded”, and there was an end in sight. I seemed to have less frequent plateaus in the fat-loss department, but part of this was because I stopped relying on the scale so much as an indicator. Weight fluctuations when carb cycling are unavoidable, and makes the scale an even less useful indicator than normal. But, I could see/measure (calipers/tape) progress, even at the weekly basis (this may have had more to do with the bodyfat range that I was entering vs. the diet approach itself).

The main advantage of the scheduled refeeds or cycling approach to me, though, was strength retention and subsequently, motivation/psychological improvements.

I did significantly less cardio “post-game change” vs. before that, mainly because I didn't feel like doing it so much. The combination of getting on the lean side and a solid deficit made it much more onerous than when I was in my mid-teens %BF and higher at a similar deficit, when I was typically doing 45min to 2 hrs of moderate intensity cardio 4-5 days/week. At that time, I kind of laughed at people doing low-intensity cardio. But then, low-intensity was all I could do unless I was in the refed state (and then, I was back to normal).

Others have reported good luck with increased cardio in reaching low %BF levels, but I suspect they either weren't eating at a large deficit or they simply have better genetics than I. In any case, it was kind of a nice time-saver for me not having to do so much cardio during the week.

Thanks for this in-depth response. I used to think refeeds were a dumb idea until all of a sudden my body started craving food. If I didn't eat more I couldn't lift and thus didn't look better. As soon as I started eating more (within reason) the bf started dropping again and I hardened up. I was an extreme Pro-VLCD person until I hit 14% bfish; now it seems ridiculous without muscle/strength loss.

Your post helped explain this for me a bit. I need to research it more for a better understanding.

[mariusjacobsen]

“The game” might not even really change for you if you are lucky, but it did for me right around 12-13% BF, I guess. And when I say it changed, I am not implying that I stopped losing fat so much (plateaus on the scale seemed more the norm, though), it's that strength loss seemed to rear it's ugly head, I generally felt more lethargic and even cold at times, I dwelled too much on thoughts of food, etc. The constant deficit would have continued to work if I could stick with it, but I don't think I could have sucked it up. And as my weights were going down in the gym, I suspect muscle loss would have been inevitable. I felt I was just getting smaller, not leaner, and it really messed with my head.

What I wasn't doing prior to that, and never had felt the need at higher %BF levels, was refeeding. I figured it would just be a symptom of weakness, lack of dedication, or outright cheating. In retrospect, a nice frequent high-carb refeed would likely have prevented some of the issues I was having.

I started carb-cycling, which in and of itself has scheduled refeeds, and it solved a lot of my issues. The low calorie/carb days weren't so bad because I was coming into them fairly well-nourished/”carb-loaded”, and there was an end in sight. I seemed to have less frequent plateaus in the fat-loss department, but part of this was because I stopped relying on the scale so much as an indicator. Weight fluctuations when carb cycling are unavoidable, and makes the scale an even less useful indicator than normal. But, I could see/measure (calipers/tape) progress, even at the weekly basis (this may have had more to do with the bodyfat range that I was entering vs. the diet approach itself).

The main advantage of the scheduled refeeds or cycling approach to me, though, was strength retention and subsequently, motivation/psychological improvements.

I did significantly less cardio “post-game change” vs. before that, mainly because I didn't feel like doing it so much. The combination of getting on the lean side and a solid deficit made it much more onerous than when I was in my mid-teens %BF and higher at a similar deficit, when I was typically doing 45min to 2 hrs of moderate intensity cardio 4-5 days/week. At that time, I kind of laughed at people doing low-intensity cardio. But then, low-intensity was all I could do unless I was in the refed state (and then, I was back to normal).

Others have reported good luck with increased cardio in reaching low %BF levels, but I suspect they either weren't eating at a large deficit or they simply have better genetics than I. In any case, it was kind of a nice time-saver for me not having to do so much cardio during the week.

Good stuff :) Thanks for the info. A few follow-up questions:

1. How often did you schedule your refeeds?
2. How long did your refeeds last?
3. How far over maintenance did you typically go?

[PBateman2]

Just to add a bit more...

I honestly would avoid cutting calories initially but rather try increasing training intensity and/or frequency. If that fails, then proceed with cutting calories (i.e. 10% increments).

I would suggest refeeds once a week to begin with then adjust frequency based on how your body responds with fat loss. Structured refeed is best..many ways to do it...

Refeeds (just my preference): Increase calories to maintenance (can be higher if ecto). Protein at 1g per pound of bodyweight. Increase carbs by 50-100% (endo-ecto). Keep dietary fat to minimum.

Thats about it. Some need refeeds once a week. Some twice a week. Some bi-weekly. Just need to see and find what works best for you.

[csb5731]

Good stuff :) Thanks for the info. A few follow-up questions:

1. How often did you schedule your refeeds?
2. How long did your refeeds last?
3. How far over maintenance did you typically go?

The refeed approach I used probably wouldn't be ideal unless one was following a very smiliar approach to the carb-cycling plan that I followed (Lyle McDonald's UD2). The refeeds were pretty huge. But Lyle's diet and some similiar approaches incorporate high volumes of low weight depletion work in conjuction with consecutive VLC days, in order to assure that there is "room" for this large of arefeed w/o much/any fat storage and to achieve glycogen supercompensation for a single heavy-lifting day. Schedule-wise, it's a pain in the ass, and along with the calorie swings there are other issues. Physical fatigue during the depletion days (not bad for me vs. long-term deficit). I would also often get extremely sleepy during the refeed period. It's a great regimen if you can integrate it into a schedule and deal with the side-effects (sleepiness was the only real bad one for me, as I said earlier, that short-term calorie restriction with a planned refeed isn't too bad in the mental aspect), but even then it's not for long-term application.

Still, it was much more liveable in comparison to a steady deficit w/o refeeds at that point.

I think a more flexible refeed approach or generic carb-cycle without the extreme swings (in low days vs. refeed) would be fine for fat loss, much more schedule-friendly and have less side-effects. PBatemen's above-suggested refeed at 1-2 times/week seems IMO appropriate - and it doesn't look like he's suffering in terms of body composition. I too suggest keeping the fats low during the refeed, as your main purpose is to replenish stored glycogen (and hopefully, bump up leptin levels - apparently is related to glucose availability). Keeping the fats low does make them less gratifying, though.

Also, on the low carb days, I did my best to stay above the threshold at which I was experiencing the typical keto-onset symptoms (brain fog and such), because I hate that as much as starving. 60g/day seemed about right for me.

[PBateman2]

^Repped. This guy should be repped repeatedly.

Posts are always A+ and informative.

[mariusjacobsen]

Guys, thank you so much. This is a lot of information to take in, but at this stage, I guess information is exactly what I need, so both have been REPPED :)

If and when my fat loss starts plateauing, I think I might look into some kind of a cycling diet with refeeds. At this point, I just need to do some research so I can figure out what might work best for me.

Once again, thank you so much for your input!

[Saintly]

Just to add a bit more...

I honestly would avoid cutting calories initially but rather try increasing training intensity and/or frequency. If that fails, then proceed with cutting calories (i.e. 10% increments).

I would suggest refeeds once a week to begin with then adjust frequency based on how your body responds with fat loss. Structured refeed is best..many ways to do it...

Refeeds (just my preference): Increase calories to maintenance (can be higher if ecto). Protein at 1g per pound of bodyweight. Increase carbs by 50-100% (endo-ecto). Keep dietary fat to minimum.

Thats about it. Some need refeeds once a week. Some twice a week. Some bi-weekly. Just need to see and find what works best for you.

May I ask what your body type is?

[PBateman2]

May I ask what your body type is?

Endomorph.

[tominho7]

Calorie cycling is a very good approach. Aim for slightly above maintenance on 1-3 workout days, and keep fats low and carbs high on these days ala refeed style.

Although refeeds will be performed, structure your diet days to ensure you are still in a net weekly deficit.

I personally notice the leaner i get the less days i can tolerate in a calorie deficit, so i need to refeed more frequently.

[sportyaccordy]

Amazing what comes up when you search "leptin"

I think for my next cut I will try carb cycling.