This why Heath is better than Levrone... [Archive] - Page 3

DavisForman

08-05-2010, 11:50 AM

The 90's really had the most genetically gifted bodies in the history. Here is the top 6 from 1999, put them and the other top pros from that decade in today's contests and the placings would change pretty much.

http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=44021&id=45222&Itemid=202

I don't think it's fair to use Ronnie in that line-up as he was only one of the elite for two years. He falls into to early 2000s if you ask me.

Also, even if you remove Ronnie, I think that line-up might still be better than it is today, HOWEVER, I think the line-up at the 2010 Mr. Olympia will outshine the 90s. Unfortunately, 3 of the top 6 from last year were off. Had they come in shape, I think they would have been better than the 90s line-up you posted.

the-craig

08-05-2010, 12:00 PM

I don't think it's fair to use Ronnie in that line-up as he was only one of the elite for two years. He falls into to early 2000s if you ask me.

Also, even if you remove Ronnie, I think that line-up might still be better than it is today, HOWEVER, I think the line-up at the 2010 Mr. Olympia will outshine the 90s. Unfortunately, 3 of the top 6 from last year were off. Had they come in shape, I think they would have been better than the 90s line-up you posted.

Somewhat agree with the first part since most of his wins were 2000 and later, but most people say his peak years were 1998 and 1999. I agree with the second part, if everyone from this years expected top 6 came in at their best they would beat the top 6 of the 90s.

Duckenheimer

08-05-2010, 12:00 PM

DavisForman

08-05-2010, 12:05 PM

Somewhat agree with the first part since most of his wins were 2000 and later, but most people say his peak years were 1998 and 1999.

I guess that depends on how heavily you weigh a wider waist compared to much more mass. I think his peak was 2003. In the above line-up, he actually appears top heavy. His legs, for whatever reason, took a bit longer to catch up with his upper body. In 03, his legs were cartoonish, but his waist was also a bit bigger.

vve

08-05-2010, 12:07 PM

http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=44021&id=45222&Itemid=202

does anyone else think that Cris Cormier had the potential to be the GOAT?

and for what reason he didn't?

DavisForman

08-05-2010, 12:08 PM

does anyone else think that Cris Cormier had the potential to be the GOAT?

and for what reason he didn't?

Victor Martinez kicked the sh*t out of him!

Duckenheimer

08-05-2010, 12:10 PM

does anyone else think that Cris Cormier had the potential to be the GOAT?

and for what reason he didn't?

Maybe... He is my favourite physique.

Maybe drugs/slacking off (just rumours though...)

vve

08-05-2010, 12:12 PM

Victor Martinez kicked the sh*t out of him!

Cris was already out of the shape when dis happened)

MiniReem

08-05-2010, 12:58 PM

THat's the thing, Levrone could hang with much bigger guys while maintaining that Classic look, while still packing on alot of mass and thickness specially from the front.

This Kevin has the best body of all time imo classic but massive

MiniReem

08-05-2010, 01:01 PM

Hands Clasped Most Muscular - Can go either way

Abs & tights - Kevin

Front Lat Spread - Kevin

Front Double Biceps - Phil

Side-Chest - Kevin

Side-Triceps - Phil

Rear Double Biceps - Phil

Rear Lat Spread - Phil

so no, Kevin does not win the other 6 poses.. Lay off the fanboyism..

Kevin wins front double so :p

spamy

08-05-2010, 01:04 PM

I don't think it's fair to use Ronnie in that line-up as he was only one of the elite for two years. He falls into to early 2000s if you ask me.

Also, even if you remove Ronnie, I think that line-up might still be better than it is today, HOWEVER, I think the line-up at the 2010 Mr. Olympia will outshine the 90s. Unfortunately, 3 of the top 6 from last year were off. Had they come in shape, I think they would have been better than the 90s line-up you posted.

We're comparing the 1999 Ronnie and the others with today's pros. We can make a case for Dexter too.

We don't know yet how the 2010 competitors will look, that's why we're talking about 2009 Olympia. With all his good conditioning Branch wouldn't have make it in the top 6 in the last decade, it means that now we don't have the same tough competition, let's not forget the heavily diuretics from back then.

does anyone else think that Cris Cormier had the potential to be the GOAT?
Yes, best genetics on that stage.

MiniReem

08-05-2010, 01:15 PM

Duckenheimer

08-05-2010, 01:27 PM

Name one show where the wider guy won because he was wider. Dexter Jackson gets out..widened and outsized all the time he still beats the big guys. Lee Priest ect. Wideness is a factor fans came up with. Nowhere in the judging criteria does it say anything about being wide.

That's really stupid.

It's actually a factor that affects how a bodybuilder looks. How a bodybuilder looks affects the results of his placings.

"Wideness" is a factor that affects how big a guy looks, and his taper and proportions. It's not the only factor; rendering the Dexter comment totally pointless and meaningless.

Dennis Wolf and Paco Bautista would probably have different placings in their history if all things were equal, but Wolf's clavicles were very narrow and Paco's waist was very narrow. Why? Because they'd look very different, their proportions would be very different and the effect on the visual result of their muscularity would be immense.

Why on earth does it matter if "width" is not specifically scored on points?

boyoboyo

08-05-2010, 01:36 PM

That's really stupid.

It's actually a factor that affects how a bodybuilder looks. How a bodybuilder looks affects the results of his placings.

"Wideness" is a factor that affects how big a guy looks, and his taper and proportions. It's not the only factor; rendering the Dexter comment totally pointless and meaningless.

Dennis Wolf and Paco Bautista would probably have different placings in their history if all things were equal, but Wolf's clavicles were very narrow and Paco's waist was very narrow. Why? Because they'd look very different, their proportions would be very different and the effect on the visual result of their muscularity would be immense.

Why on earth does it matter if "width" is not specifically scored on points?

He spouts that same line all the time bro.
I agree 100% with what youve just said

NeoSeminole

08-05-2010, 01:58 PM

does anyone else think that Cris Cormier had the potential to be the GOAT?

you're not alone. I always thought Chris had close to the best genetics of all-time

PUuk6ngwe7w

DavisForman

08-05-2010, 02:03 PM

Cris was already out of the shape when dis happened)

Lol, I was just kidding dude.

Branch wouldn't have make it in the top 6 in the last decade

That's really an impossible statement. There's no way to know that. Waist down, Branch beats every single guy on that stage, only exception being Ronnie, plus he has some areas in the upper body that beat people.

flangmasterj

08-05-2010, 02:04 PM

you're not alone. I always thought Chris had close to the best genetics of all-time

Chris was pretty close to perfect. He just didn't have the freakiness which Ronnie had.

T3mpest

08-05-2010, 03:05 PM

Chris was pretty close to perfect. He just didn't have the freakiness which Ronnie had.

He also never reahed 300lbs on stage either and that has alot to do with it. Cormier had a similar back shape, similar genetic leg sweep, better arms, similar chest, better ab shape and could still do a vaccuum in 1999. If he had taken it completley seriously laid off the "extra" drugs he may have made 300lbs on stage look even better than Ronnie did

boyoboyo

08-05-2010, 03:08 PM

He also never reahed 300lbs on stage either and that has alot to do with it. Cormier had a similar back shape, similar genetic leg sweep, better arms, similar chest, better ab shape and could still do a vaccuum in 1999. If he had taken it completley seriously laid off the "extra" drugs he may have made 300lbs on stage look even better than Ronnie did

first off cormier did not have better arms than ronnie lol, and whilst they both have good legs, there completley different in shape.

and like the above poster states, he just lacks the hanging mass that ronnie posseses.
and another fator being chris allways struggled with his conditioning, he was never ripped from head to toe.

trulyhuge1

08-05-2010, 03:27 PM

you're not alone. I always thought Chris had close to the best genetics of all-time

PUuk6ngwe7w

Any pro bb'er from the 90's would tell you if Cormier would have slowed down the partying (which I guess he did quite frequently) he could have gone even further than what he did. Major untapped potential there.

T3mpest

08-05-2010, 04:20 PM

first off cormier did not have better arms than ronnie lol, and whilst they both have good legs, there completley different in shape.

and like the above poster states, he just lacks the hanging mass that ronnie posseses.
and another fator being chris allways struggled with his conditioning, he was never ripped from head to toe.

Hanging mass comes alot easier at 300 than it does at 230. Ronnie's had shorter tricep and bicep muscle bellies than Chris. Chris Bi's were very full and still had peak to them. Ronnie's arms lacked vs his legs and torso as he ballooned up to 300ish because of his relatively short muscle bellies vs his big ass chest muscles and redic quad sweep. Chris had the potential to have a much better balance between those body parts. IMO chris's conditioning issues (which were usually minor) can be attributed to his lazy training and dieting. He got caught up in the party lifestyle and that DOES clash with contest prep.

Chris was known for not working as hard as most, still had most of Ronnies size in 1998 and 1999 and genetically seemed to have a MUCH better chance of making 300lbs look good that Ronnie did.

NeoSeminole

08-05-2010, 05:31 PM

He also never reahed 300lbs on stage either and that has alot to do with it. Cormier had a similar back shape, similar genetic leg sweep, better arms, similar chest, better ab shape and could still do a vaccuum in 1999. If he had taken it completley seriously laid off the "extra" drugs he may have made 300lbs on stage look even better than Ronnie did

I don't think Chris had any desire to reach 300 lbs. Some bodybuilders, despite what the judges favor, will not compromise their own aesthetic goals. Bob Paris was one of them

NeoSeminole

08-05-2010, 05:45 PM

just an all-around beautiful physique

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2633833&stc=1&d=1281055414

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2633843&stc=1&d=1281055431

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2633853&stc=1&d=1281055503

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2633863&stc=1&d=1281055533

spamy

08-05-2010, 11:36 PM

That's really an impossible statement. There's no way to know that. Waist down, Branch beats every single guy on that stage, only exception being Ronnie, plus he has some areas in the upper body that beat people.
Paco Bautista has some of the best legs in bbing today and he took 5th at his last contest, Branch took 3rd at AC 2010 even if he had the best lower body in the show, and both had great conditioning, you can't win with just a pair of great legs.

the-craig

08-06-2010, 04:20 AM

Paco Bautista has some of the best legs in bbing today

From the side and back I would agree, but from the front his quads look deflated and thin.

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/browse/show.php?bbcode=694&r_no=1122227&snippet=1397&url=http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_6371wtmk_GDJWZCPNTT.JPG&forward=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musculardevelopment.com%2 Fbrowse%2Findex.php%3Fmode%3Dbrowse%26id%3D694%26e ventcode%3D1397

DavisForman

08-06-2010, 06:28 AM

Paco Bautista has some of the best legs in bbing today and he took 5th at his last contest, Branch took 3rd at AC 2010 even if he had the best lower body in the show, and both had great conditioning, you can't win with just a pair of great legs.

I know... but I didn't say "win the whole show." I was implying that he would make it into the top 6. Take Ronnie from that line-up, and I see Branch beating every other person from the front except Nasser. He wouldn't fair so well from the back, but remember, waist down from the back he would be number one!

IMO, Branch is the fourth best bodybuilder in the world today (falling behind Jay, Kai and Heath). The placings of the 1999 Mr. Olympia were:

1. Ronnie Coleman
2. Chris Cormier
3. Flex Wheeler
4. Kevin Levrone
5. Shawn Ray
6. Nasser El Sonbaty

Even if you don't remove Ronnie from that list, I think Branch beats Kevin, based solely off of photos (obviously).

Has bodybuilding drastically improved since 1999? No, but I think it is slightly better now.

INMATEaco

08-06-2010, 06:31 AM

uo9sWQ5goZ8

trulyhuge1

08-06-2010, 08:25 AM

Flex got 2nd there stud. And Branch looks better from the front than everyone in the 1999 line-up aside from Ronnie???

I know... but I didn't say "win the whole show." I was implying that he would make it into the top 6. Take Ronnie from that line-up, and I see Branch beating every other person from the front except Nasser. He wouldn't fair so well from the back, but remember, waist down from the back he would be number one!

IMO, Branch is the fourth best bodybuilder in the world today (falling behind Jay, Kai and Heath). The placings of the 1999 Mr. Olympia were:

1. Ronnie Coleman
2. Chris Cormier
3. Flex Wheeler
4. Kevin Levrone
5. Shawn Ray
6. Nasser El Sonbaty

Even if you don't remove Ronnie from that list, I think Branch beats Kevin, based solely off of photos (obviously).

Has bodybuilding drastically improved since 1999? No, but I think it is slightly better now.

DavisForman

08-06-2010, 08:29 AM

Flex got 2nd there stud.

Woops, my bad.

And Branch looks better from the front than everyone in the 1999 line-up aside from Ronnie???

If you say so.

I think everyone aside from Ronnie and Nasser, as I said in my post, but if you just think Ronnie, okay then.

spamy

08-06-2010, 08:57 AM

From the side and back I would agree, but from the front his quads look deflated and thin.

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/browse/show.php?bbcode=694&r_no=1122227&snippet=1397&url=http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JEB_6371wtmk_GDJWZCPNTT.JPG&forward=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musculardevelopment.com%2 Fbrowse%2Findex.php%3Fmode%3Dbrowse%26id%3D694%26e ventcode%3D1397
Paco's legs are like Jay's or Kai's physiques: you need to put them next to the others to realise how good they are in reality. They look great by themselves and even better in a line-up;)

http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JB7_9895wtmk.JPG

http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JB7_9905wtmk.JPG

http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/JB7_9911wtmk.JPG

I know... but I didn't say "win the whole show." I was implying that he would make it into the top 6. Take Ronnie from that line-up, and I see Branch beating every other person from the front except Nasser. He wouldn't fair so well from the back, but remember, waist down from the back he would be number one!

IMO, Branch is the fourth best bodybuilder in the world today (falling behind Jay, Kai and Heath). The placings of the 1999 Mr. Olympia were:

1. Ronnie Coleman
2. Chris Cormier
3. Flex Wheeler
4. Kevin Levrone
5. Shawn Ray
6. Nasser El Sonbaty

Even if you don't remove Ronnie from that list, I think Branch beats Kevin, based solely off of photos (obviously).

Has bodybuilding drastically improved since 1999? No, but I think it is slightly better now.
You're right Cormier should have been 2nd in 1999, but the judges placed Flex ahead of him. Oh well:(

Regarding Branch he places behind Ronnie, Cormier, Levrone, all of them have better upper bodies than Branch, better frames, proportions, symmetry and good legs.

trulyhuge1

08-06-2010, 11:06 AM

Woops, my bad.

If you say so.

I think everyone aside from Ronnie and Nasser, as I said in my post, but if you just think Ronnie, okay then.

You didn't understand my post. You stated Branch would beat everyone BUT Ronnie and Nasser in the 1999 line up and I highly disagreed.

the-craig

08-06-2010, 11:41 AM

Paco's legs are like Jay's or Kai's physiques: you need to put them next to the others to realise how good they are in reality. They look great by themselves and even better in a line-up;)

His quads do look better beside other people, you're right there. I'm still not a fan of them though, they've got plenty size no doubt about it, but the shape of them isn't even slightly pleasing.

Big Slim DaDDy

08-06-2010, 11:46 AM

From the side and back I would agree, but from the front his quads look deflated and thin.

Dude, what in the name of hell are you talking about? Paco's quads? Did I read that right?

the-craig

08-06-2010, 11:52 AM

Dude, what in the name of hell are you talking about? Paco's quads? Did I read that right?

Huge and conditioned, yes. But the shape of them kills it for me. I can see why people would like them though not saying they're ****ty just not my favourite.

MiniReem

08-06-2010, 12:00 PM

uo9sWQ5goZ8

perfect

Big Slim DaDDy

08-06-2010, 12:28 PM

you're not alone. I always thought Chris had close to the best genetics of all-time

PUuk6ngwe7w

If we had complete control over our bodies mine would probably look similar to that. Except white.

Big Slim DaDDy

08-06-2010, 12:29 PM

Huge and conditioned, yes. But the shape of them kills it for me. I can see why people would like them though not saying they're ****ty just not my favourite.

Thin and deflated? Have you not seen them before?

the-craig

08-06-2010, 01:22 PM

Thin and deflated? Have you not seen them before?

Maybe I picked my words wrong. They lack roundness and they don't seem to pop off his thigh.

DavisForman

08-06-2010, 03:09 PM

You didn't understand my post.

I understood your post perfectly. You implied that I thought Branch looked better than everyone from the front than Ronnie, which is not what I said. I said he would look better from the front than everyone EXCEPT Ronnie and Nasser.

You stated Branch would beat everyone BUT Ronnie and Nasser in the 1999 line up and I highly disagreed.

Wrong again, I said he would beat everyone except Ronnie and Nasser from the front. Did you even read my post?

trulyhuge1

08-06-2010, 04:25 PM

I understood your post perfectly. You implied that I thought Branch looked better than everyone from the front than Ronnie, which is not what I said. I said he would look better from the front than everyone EXCEPT Ronnie and Nasser.

Wrong again, I said he would beat everyone except Ronnie and Nasser from the front. Did you even read my post?

What are you talking about kid? Aside from Ronnie and Nasser....right? That's what I just typed and you have quoted. If I forgot to put Nasser's name in a different reply then my bad. but I clearly said both in this one. Have you met any pro's in person? If so, how many and mind telling me who it was(or they were). Pictures and video do not show anything, especially as far as a contest is concerned. You would have been what, 9 or 10 in 1999?

DavisForman

08-06-2010, 05:18 PM

What are you talking about kid? Aside from Ronnie and Nasser....right? That's what I just typed and you have quoted.

FROM THE FRONT! That's what you're missing here! You simply said "beat everyone except Ronnie and Nasser" I said "beat everyone from the front except Ronnie and Nasser"

trulyhuge1

08-06-2010, 06:50 PM

FROM THE FRONT! That's what you're missing here! You simply said "beat everyone except Ronnie and Nasser" I said "beat everyone from the front except Ronnie and Nasser"
That's awesome man. Keep up the good work.

DavisForman

08-06-2010, 08:27 PM

That's awesome man. Keep up the good work.

Okay than broseph

Supercows

08-06-2010, 09:35 PM

mediocre back for a pro.....
honestly...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2633843&stc=1&d=1281055431

MiniReem

08-06-2010, 11:33 PM

mediocre back for a pro.....
honestly...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2633843&stc=1&d=1281055431

agreeed

flangmasterj

08-06-2010, 11:40 PM

mediocre back for a pro.....
honestly...

Ummmm...........what?

Chris had an amazing back.

T3mpest

08-07-2010, 12:07 AM

Ummmm...........what?

Chris had an amazing back.

I know I was REALLY hoping they were joking, apparently they are just dumb? Here is Cormier next to 99 Ronnie, IMO his actual back in this pose is tied. He lacks a tiny bit of width and has more thickness than Ronnie, top to bottom.

http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=44021&id=45250&Itemid=202
Ronnie's clearly wins this one, but Ronnies BDB is the best of all time. He clearly at least ties flex in this pose and flex had a great BDB as well.

http://muscletime.com/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=watermark&catid=44021&id=45249&Itemid=202

DPNZ

08-07-2010, 12:15 AM

mediocre back for a pro.....
honestly...

Come on man, seriously?
Chris had a sick back.

And wow this thread has gone off track.

ALSO, lol at Flex's calves in that RDB lineup. Go Flex!

DavisForman

08-07-2010, 05:05 AM

mediocre back for a pro.....
honestly...

Could you ruin the reputation of teenagers on this site anymore? Seriously.

sedrik

01-24-2013, 03:51 AM

Bumpin this great debate with the 2x Mr.O vs. This fukking pure perfection....
O91uBzK5M2o

sexnews

01-24-2013, 06:01 AM

A lot of old threads bumped lately, the good thing is that maybe it shows there are a lot of new guys joining this section!

http://i50.tinypic.com/fwrihg.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/23sxjd1.gif

T3mpest

01-24-2013, 06:07 AM

Bumpin this great debate with the 2x Mr.O vs. This fukking pure perfection....
O91uBzK5M2o

Except Ronnie still beat him that show.... I think flex did too. Old video with grainy footage and super low lighting.makes things appear a lot more.epic.than they are... Go search for the hig quality footage from that show.. or pics... He doesn't look like that.

For all those who somehow think Phil doesn't beat Levrone... Then you must also agree Jay doesn't either... And the early 2000s proved that false... Jay pushed Ronnie harder than Levrone ever could.

Furthermore what version of Levrone is better... If you want to match Phils seperation you need a very early Kevin.. Not enough size there.. As Kevin gets bigger he loses a lot of seperation, especially in the arms. Later in his career he may have more size than Phil.up.top from the front, but his back and legs both take some kind of a hit various years. His back.is dilletesque in 02.. No version of Levrone is as complete.. Instead of posting 1000 pics of various years each to highlight various points pick one show and stick with it.. For my money
no Levrone beats Phils last AC second place or Olympia wins.. Especially his first win. Really what seals the deal is IMO Phil is alot more likely to be in better condition.. I've never seen Phil on stage without striated glutes.. Kevin was fairly regularly

allancadenhead

01-24-2013, 08:27 AM

bump :)

RoroCwalker

01-24-2013, 11:37 AM

Bumpin this great debate with the 2x Mr.O vs. This fukking pure perfection....
O91uBzK5M2o

XSkqt-QhkLo&list=PLBA7245763412F47D&index=17

Regis1

04-27-2013, 02:13 AM

Levrone has great legs, they looks great to me

Jegudiel

04-27-2013, 08:41 AM

PKQ7isQCcJo

lth

04-27-2013, 11:36 AM

I'm not sure as of now how this is even a debate. Kevin Levrone is probably my favorite pro ever but he is not better than phil, it wouldn't even be close when you turned them around. Levrone has more width but this 'width' sh*t with phil is getting old, you dont need insane width when you have the type of density that he does. Its just not a good debate at all anymore

RoroCwalker

04-27-2013, 12:28 PM