The future: Mind-uploading and virtual immortality

[akkxn]

Very interesting read found here: http://www.futuretimeline.net/22ndcentury/2100-2149.htm#minduploading


2120 (Prediction)

"Mind uploading enters mainstream society"

Adequate hardware to support human-level intelligence was available as far back as the 2020s, thanks to the exponential progress of Moore's Law.* This made it possible to form simulations of neural processes.

However, the underlying software foundation required for mind uploading proved to be a vastly greater challenge. Full transfer of human consciousness into artificial substrates posed enormous technical difficulties, in addition to raising ethical and philosophical issues.

The sheer complexity of the brain, and its inherent fragility - along with the many legislative barriers that stood in the way - meant that it was nearly a century before such technology reached the mainstream.

Some breakthroughs occurred in the latter decades of the 21st century, with partial transfer of memories and thought patterns, allowing some limited experience of the mind uploading process. However, it was only through the emergence of picotechnology and strong AI that sufficiently detailed scanning methods became available. This new generation of machines, being orders of magnitude faster and more robust, finally bridged the gap between organic human brains and their synthetic equivalents.

Initially tested on monkeys, the procedure was eventually offered to certain marginalised people including death row inmates and terminally ill patients. Once it could be demonstrated as being safe and reversible, the project garnered a steady stream of free and healthy volunteers, tempted by this new form of computerised immortality.

Years of red tape and legislation followed, including some of the strictest regulations ever enacted into law. Religious and conservative groups voiced their objections to what they saw as a fundamental violation of God's will. At times, this threatened to postpone the technology indefinitely. Eventually though, like so many other breakthroughs in science, the zeitgeist moved on. The level of demand for mind uploading proved to be enormous, and the treatment was made commercially available in the 2120s.

Today, citizens have access to special clinics in which their biological brains can be literally discarded in favour of artificial ones. Rather than simply "duplicating" a mind, the machine physically shifts the consciousness, like a sponge soaking up water. The brain is gradually replaced - piece by piece - so the original personality remains intact during the transition. This vital aspect of the procedure assuages the fear which many have of losing their identity.

For the wealthiest individuals, entire new bodies can be grown, into which the synthetic brains can be transplanted. These bodies may themselves be artificial, with options for partially cyborg or fully robotic replacements. Externally, they are often indistinguishable from real human bodies, but include many hi-tech add-ons and internal features boosting physical and mental abilities.

Not everyone is opting for these types of treatments, however. A significant percentage view them with extreme suspicion, as though somehow immoral and dehumanising. With each passing year, society is becoming increasingly fractured, with an ever-widening divide between those who seek to enhance themselves, and those who prefer to eschew such technology.

[HereToLul]

Wow, good read. I hope that I live long enough to see life-lengthening technology. I doubt it will have immortal capabilities, but another couple hundred years wouldn't hurt (srs).

The part that I think seems the most outlandish is the transferring of the soul (or identity, whatever you want to call it) into another "shell". I think we are far from understanding the biological/neurological basis for our consciousness. mind=blown

[Muckle_Ewe]

Wow, good read. I hope that I live long enough to see life-lengthening technology. I doubt it will have immortal capabilities, but another couple hundred years wouldn't hurt (srs).

The part that I think seems the most outlandish is the transferring of the soul (or identity, whatever you want to call it) into another "shell". I think we are far from understanding the biological/neurological basis for our consciousness. mind=blown

Far from it yes.

But at the rate technology is progressing. 110 years doesn't sound too far fetched.

I love that future time line site. It actually changed my life in that I realized I wanted to be part of upcoming technology rather than go into finance.

[dave.mc]

That site is a very entertaining read although I do find the end of the universe bit pretty depressing lol. Be interesting to monitor that site over the next few years and see how accurate they are with some of the predicitons

[Otaman]

great read, OP repped on recharge

[HereToLul]

That site is a very entertaining read although I do find the end of the universe bit pretty depressing lol. Be interesting to monitor that site over the next few years and see how accurate they are with some of the predicitons

I don't think the universe will end. Humanity, however, is another story.

[akkxn]

bumped for morning crew

[TheOneAboveAll]

Meh I'm a proponent of mind uploading/virtual immortality. It leads to many philosophical identity crisis which eliminates the whole purpose of being immortal. I'm more into the cyborg/nanobots approach.

[beerbaron105]

Essentially we would live in the Matrix, except with the ability to customize our lives, at it's full potential, living within this cyber-world, we would be able to customize our lives, be invincible, wealthy beyond all imagine, superpowers, travel to any known point in the cyber-universe instantaneously. I am sure the government would try to control and infringe strict rules/controls, however I am sure it could be "cracked" just like current technology can be "jail-broken"

[reyalp]

We still need a good BCI before this happens.

I'm excited about plain ol good BCI

[UniversityMisc]

If you can make it to ~2025, then there is a strong chance you will never have to die.

Were going to be at the point (since science improves exponentially) that your life expectancy starts increasing faster than you can age.

Things such as stem cell research and the ability to grow complete new organs from your own stem cells will mean your body will 100% accept them and they will work flawlessly, since they are in reality your own organs to begin with.

It's pretty exciting stuff, and that doesn't even get into the discussion of when we make the breakthrough with nanobots and what that will do to our life expectancy.

[beerbaron105]

If you can make it to ~2025, then there is a strong chance you will never have to die.

Were going to be at the point (since science improves exponentially) that your life expentancy starts increasing faster than you can age.

Things such as stem cell research and the ability to grow complete new organs from your own stem cells will mean your body will 100% accept them and they will work flawlessly, since they are in reality your own organs to begin with.

It's pretty exciting stuff, and that dosn't even get into the discussion of when we make the breakthrough with nanobots and what that will do to our life expantacy.

That's why I hate when religious people try to break down scientific advancements like stem cell research, religion should be banned from political office, you do not need to be religious to know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil!

[UniversityMisc]

That's why I hate when religious people try to break down scientific advancements like stem cell research, religion should be banned from political office, you do not need to be religious to know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil!

I have to agree with you.

I have nothing against religious people, but they shouldn't force their beliefs on the masses. If people want to do stem cell research, then that should be up to them, not regulations and bannings and what not because of people's beliefs.

It is sad to say, but religion has held us back hundreds of years in the scientific fields.

[HereToLul]

Meh I'm a proponent of mind uploading/virtual immortality. It leads to many philosophical identity crisis which eliminates the whole purpose of being immortal. I'm more into the cyborg/nanobots approach.
Wouldn't this make you an opponent vs a proponent?

If you can make it to ~2025, then there is a strong chance you will never have to die.

Were going to be at the point (since science improves exponentially) that your life expectancy starts increasing faster than you can age.

Things such as stem cell research and the ability to grow complete new organs from your own stem cells will mean your body will 100% accept them and they will work flawlessly, since they are in reality your own organs to begin with.

It's pretty exciting stuff, and that doesn't even get into the discussion of when we make the breakthrough with nanobots and what that will do to our life expectancy.

Dudeee this excites me more than anything.

[Rockchalk0420]

If you can make it to ~2025, then there is a strong chance you will never have to die.

Were going to be at the point (since science improves exponentially) that your life expectancy starts increasing faster than you can age.

Its called AEV, look it up! (Acturial Escape Velocity) Aging will eventually become a thing of the past. I was watching a show on the discovery channel a while back...In it, they talked about the possibility of living to 1000 years. The aging process is a disease, and it can be reveresed and halted. We are no where near this being reality yet, but we are approaching the path to immortality. With advancements in Nano tech, and Bio tech, its only a matter of time.

And people who are in their 50's and even 60's today, could potentially be some of the first humans to live to 1000.


Things such as stem cell research and the ability to grow complete new organs from your own stem cells will mean your body will 100% accept them and they will work flawlessly, since they are in reality your own organs to begin with.

Even on the rare occasion that your body does not accept the organ, you can continously regrow organs from your own cells, meaning that vital organs will no longer be in short supply.


It's pretty exciting stuff, and that doesn't even get into the discussion of when we make the breakthrough with nanobots and what that will do to our life expectancy.

Humans alive today are truly lucky. I know a lot of people look to the future as some sore of eden, but more then likely everyone posting here today can and will experience the interesting times we have ahead.

**** gets crazy once you really start to think about it. When I turn 80, (barring any major catastrophe) I can expect to live vastly different that 80 year olds of today. By then, 80 may very well be the new 20.

[Rockchalk0420]

That's why I hate when religious people try to break down scientific advancements like stem cell research, religion should be banned from political office, you do not need to be religious to know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil!

Its called seperation between Church and State... To bad they've created a loophole around it.

One thing I will give Obama credit on, is his stem cell research stance.

[UniversityMisc]

Its called AEV, look it up! (Acturial Escape Velocity) Aging will eventually become a thing of the past. I was watching a show on the discovery channel a while back...In it, they talked about the possibility of living to 1000 years. The aging process is a disease, and it can be reveresed and halted. We are no where near this being reality yet, but we are approaching the path to immortality. With advancements in Nano tech, and Bio tech, its only a matter of time.

And people who are in their 50's and even 60's today, could potentially be some of the first humans to live to 1000.



Yeah, I'm actually glad I was born when I was. We are pretty much the perfect age in relation to the way technology is gonna expand.

And I have to agree, that in another 100-200 years or so, immortality could easily be upon us with what the OP posted. It makes sense if you think outside of the box and really start to understand the concepts behind how we would achieve the immortality. I was talking to my buddy about it the other day, and he just said it sounded too far-fetched and sci-fi to every happen. I tried to give him examples with modern day things like how 10 years ago, if I wanted to read a book, i had to go check it out from a library. Now a whole library worth of books can fit on a microsd card as big as a nickle. Not as good of a relation as to becoming immortal, but i was more trying to relate the exponential growth of technology.




Even on the rare occasion that your body does not accept the organ, you can continously regrow organs from your own cells, meaning that vital organs will no longer be in short supply.



Exactly. And once nano technology breaks through, the organs will never have to fail again.




Humans alive today are truly lucky. I know a lot of people look to the future as some sore of eden, but more then likely everyone posting here today can and will experience the interesting times we have ahead.

**** gets crazy once you really start to think about it. When I turn 80, (barring any major catastrophe) I can expect to live vastly different that 80 year olds of today. By then, 80 may very well be the new 20.

In reality, barring any major circumstance outside of my control (car wreck, etc.) I easily expect to never have to die, or at least live much, much, much longer than people do today.

[boast]

yeah, Ghost in the Shell was cool

[CLEAN_SET_OF_10]

this tech could be used for evil as well.

inmates serving a life sentence for crimes might be given an eternal sentence instead, where their conscience is transferred to a "new brain" every X amount of years (the lifespan of one of these pseudo-brains) and they would be trapped inside their own mind for... ever.

further more if they were somehow hooked up to experience torture and rape or whatever their deepest fears were it would truly be an eternity of nightmares..

of course its easy to see how this could be used as a means of immoral torture rather than a means of discipline.

[HereToLul]

this tech could be used for evil as well.

inmates serving a life sentence for crimes might be given an eternal sentence instead, where their conscience is transferred to a "new brain" every X amount of years (the lifespan of one of these pseudo-brains) and they would be trapped inside their own mind for... ever.

further more if they were somehow hooked up to experience torture and rape or whatever their deepest fears were it would truly be an eternity of nightmares..

of course its easy to see how this could be used as a means of immoral torture rather than a means of discipline.

Hmm...this got me thinking...what if we could 'create' heaven and hell on earth? Either eternal pleasure or eternal pain? Who would decide your fate? Would they be considered 'god'?

[Otaman]

wouldn't that lead to endless cloning? Think about it, who knows you best? Who's you best buddy, friend, partner, maybe even lover? The answer is yourself.

People would be uploading their own minds into another android/human/cyborg, thus creating copies of themselves for plenty of reasons - business, friendship, security. That will cross moral, social, ethical etc all kinds of boundaries.

What if a tyrant like Hitler makes 1000s of copies of themselves? It would be nearly impossible to deal with negative implications of such technology.

[findingmyway]

I think our generation is just gonna miss scientists figuring out how to lengthen our lives, like they'll probably come out with some injection which will make every human live to be a couple hundred years old in 2070, and we'll all be dead/very old by then. Being born 50 years from now would have been better, it really sucks hard when you think about it.

[CRyan64]

^ I was just thinking that. :mad:

F*ck, if only I was born a few generations later...

[Otaman]

I think our generation is just gonna miss scientists figuring out how to lengthen our lives, like they'll probably come out with some injection which will make every human live to be a couple hundred years old in 2070, and we'll all be dead/very old by then. Being born 50 years from now would have been better, it really sucks hard when you think about it.

no it doesnt brah, I really think we're the last happiest and most comfortable generation that there will be in a while

Look at what the future has to offer:

-Oil shortage (economic crises, wars, conflicts)
-Environmental catastrophies (massive draughts, hurricanes, earthquakes)
-Massive immigration (OP's website predicts 1 in 5 europeans will be Muslim) Whites will be minority
-Terrorist acts (possible nuclear, chemical attacks)
-all kinds of stresses: alienation, social anxiety, loss of identity

I don't want to live for 100-200 years in a shiet future like that. Quality > Quantity. Future generations will be full of envy at how things were before.

[dave.mc]

-Oil shortage (economic crises, wars, conflicts)
-Environmental catastrophies (massive draughts, hurricanes, earthquakes)
-Massive immigration (OP's website predicts 1 in 5 europeans will be Muslim) Whites will be minority
-Terrorist acts (possible nuclear, chemical attacks)
-all kinds of stresses: alienation, social anxiety, loss of identity


despite what the press would have you believe all "civilized" cultures since time began have dealt with the very same social issues. Our solar system is a wealth of resources as well, we just need to be able to find a way to expolit the resources our solar system can offer us.

[boast]

I think our generation is just gonna miss scientists figuring out how to lengthen our lives, like they'll probably come out with some injection which will make every human live to be a couple hundred years old in 2070, and we'll all be dead/very old by then. Being born 50 years from now would have been better, it really sucks hard when you think about it.

There was a documentary posted on the misc which showed how technology advances exponentially, not linearly.

I think by 2030, we will be seeing some crazy stuff (which i hope to be a part of!)

[treborly77]

they already said they can stop aging in like 15 years

[Iron_Prophet]

I think our generation is just gonna miss scientists figuring out how to lengthen our lives, like they'll probably come out with some injection which will make every human live to be a couple hundred years old in 2070, and we'll all be dead/very old by then. Being born 50 years from now would have been better, it really sucks hard when you think about it.

Not true.

There are many advances being worked on as we speak.

They are developing a method of completely removing the chemical in your body that makes you age.

Although that wont stop you from eventually dieing it will extend your life by a hundred and twenty or so years.

They used examples of 100 year old's will be in the gym working out etc still running marathons.

They have already gotten the method to work on mice. Was estimated my 2030 I think was the minimum in which they think it will become mainstream.

And that was only one of the things they are developing.

[Otaman]

Not true.

There are many advances being worked on as we speak.

They are developing a method of completely removing the chemical in your body that makes you age.

Although that wont stop you from eventually dieing it will extend your life by a hundred and twenty or so years.

They used examples of 100 year old's will be in the gym working out etc still running marathons.

They have already gotten the method to work on mice. Was estimated my 2030 I think was the minimum in which they think it will become mainstream.

And that was only one of the things they are developing.

Now, we don't need that do we?

[wingnut4772]

Cool article. Thanks.

[Super Man]

I was reading some philosophy today (LOL PHILOSOPHY IN S&T SECTION) and the man (Daniel Dennet) postulated that it would be rather impossible for technology to ever be that advanced. The software would have to be able to compute reactions on top of reactions to events that can't possibly be predicted in the first place.

Thoughts?

[gspmmafan]

I have spent the last couple of days at work reading through this website. These predictions are awesome. Even though its impossible to predict what will be happening someone put a lot of thought and effort into this stuff and it is a really cool read for being at work. I want to read more like it.

[Connor1231]

Doesn't the idea of a virtual hell scare anyone? Any computer geeks on here...is there a way you could absolutely ensure this wouldn't happen? like isolate your virtual brain or something? the potential for supertorture for millions of years is enough to outweigh the potential benefits for me...

[Connor1231]

Doesn't the idea of a virtual hell scare anyone? Any computer geeks on here...is there a way you could absolutely ensure this wouldn't happen? like isolate your virtual brain or something? the potential for supertorture for millions of years is enough to outweigh the potential benefits for me...

[kfx450r]

Yah but, it still won't be you. It will just be a computer with your memories. Part of your conscience is knowing who and what you are. So even though they may upload your mind into a computer for example it will be a computer with your memories, acting and thinking like you would, but it won't be you.

Hate to burst everyones immortality dreams.

[Connor1231]

it does seem rather impossible to think that you would hook yourself up to a computer and walk away, and somehow be in the computer too. i'm not sure how that would work. but there wouldn't be any way to 100% protect yourself if it could potentially work? like keep your robotic brain isolated from other people's?

what if we slowly replaced parts of our actual brain with mechanical parts? that seems more realistic, and easier to imagine. but then nobody could hack into your brain right?

[IronRooster2]

The silliest part copy pasted in the OP was the idea there would be conservative or religious groups with any political power in 2120. The fastest growing religion in developed countries is "none", and the degree of utopian infrastructure* in place to make anything like that happen would have long demolished any cultural support of standing still (or going backwards).

(I've been of a mind that conservatism (in today's environment and culture: the future the indians had to look forward to was rather dystopiam so I can give their fundamentalists much more of a pass than some others) and religion are both mainly ways to justify one's own suffering. "My job is important, it means something. I'm not that guy who pushes a rock up a hill only for it to roll back again and a vulture comes out to peck out my kidneys." The Simpson's gag that the democrat's motto is "we hate ourselves!" springs to mind from that, as well.)

The cyborg stuff always comes back to that qualia/problem of the heap philosophy crap. If a Star Trek replicator makes a perfect clone of you, that's obviously a total stranger thinking your exact same thoughts. You don't have some magical psychic link where you experience life through two houses. Cybernetic brain though?

Take any neuron in your brain. Replace it with a mechanical double that performs the exact same functions as the neuron it replaced. Is your consciousness still ongoing? Of course; it's just a single neuron. You lose lots of them all the time.

But replace it all... convert all the way into a robotic brain. Do you still continue to experience life, or are you dead while someone else exactly like you (but without consciousness) lives your life?**

* The alternative is global warming leads us into a lovely age of extinction and snails become the apex predator, but let's not dwell on that likely outcome in this optimistic exercise.

** The weirder kinds of woo*** are beliefs in solipsistic universes - in that in any given possible worlds, only one consciousness is "real". And that perhaps that consciousness can never be extinguished - that particular person would be "pushed" into only realities where they continue to persist.

*** And again, that improvable "if it's possible to simulate entire civilizations, most beings will be simulated and not really exist in flesh and blood. Considering the odds, this is almost certainly a simulation. Back to solipsism, I'm pretty sure you're all emulated "shadow people" to cut down on the CPU load.

At any rate. Graphene processors hold the potential to deliver an unimaginable advancement of power (like an order of magnitude).... We'll just waste it all on more sophisticated boob jiggle physics simulations however.****

**** Not really a waste.

[JoshSP1985]

If you can make it to ~2025, then there is a strong chance you will never have to die.

Were going to be at the point (since science improves exponentially) that your life expectancy starts increasing faster than you can age.

Things such as stem cell research and the ability to grow complete new organs from your own stem cells will mean your body will 100% accept them and they will work flawlessly, since they are in reality your own organs to begin with.

It's pretty exciting stuff, and that doesn't even get into the discussion of when we make the breakthrough with nanobots and what that will do to our life expectancy.

This, BRB new organs when they finally do start to fail which should last a long ass time regardless with our own personal army of nano bots cleaning our blood, cleaning our arteries and removing impurities etc

[Connor1231]

I think religions will still be around, they are very resilient and like I said I do not see why an increase in technology is incompatible with it.

So iron rooster, you don't think "mind uploading" is possible but a brain made of say silicon or something is? That's what I was getting at.. Doesn't that seem more realistic and more safe? What do you think about my concern over psychos creating virtual hells or the ability for your mind to be hacked and abused? I think this is a problem that just replacing your own brain with mechanical parts would solve.

[JoshSP1985]

Yah but, it still won't be you. It will just be a computer with your memories. Part of your conscience is knowing who and what you are. So even though they may upload your mind into a computer for example it will be a computer with your memories, acting and thinking like you would, but it won't be you.

Hate to burst everyones immortality dreams.

This is what trips me up with these types of discussions too. Consciousness is self-awareness.

I think the immortality route would have to be achieved through preserving our biological bodies in other words stopping aging.

[JoshSP1985]

I think religions will still be around, they are very resilient and like I said I do not see why an increase in technology is incompatible with it.

So iron rooster, you don't think "mind uploading" is possible but a brain made of say silicon or something is? That's what I was getting at.. Doesn't that seem more realistic and more safe? What do you think about my concern over psychos creating virtual hells or the ability for your mind to be hacked and abused? I think this is a problem that just replacing your own brain with mechanical parts would solve.

People's brains are already being hacked and abused. MSM has created literally armies of drones ready to defend their positions against all logic.

[Connor1231]

What's MSM? But the difference is it's not supertorture and it's not for millions of years. And your brain is your own, in your head. You can choose situations that would make it impossible for someone to "hack" you.

[Bar182]

I have spent the last couple of days at work reading through this website. These predictions are awesome. Even though its impossible to predict what will be happening someone put a lot of thought and effort into this stuff and it is a really cool read for being at work. I want to read more like it.

Read this: http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns

Anything by Kurzweil is interesting. He believes an event called the Singularity will happen around 2045 will be the time when technology will be improving at such a rate that humans won;t be able to comprehend it unless they merge with it.

Our next step in evolution is to become machine.

[Bar182]

This is what trips me up with these types of discussions too. Consciousness is self-awareness.

I think the immortality route would have to be achieved through preserving our biological bodies in other words stopping aging.

Our biological bodies are a weakness. If we want to explore the universe we need to replace our biological forms with robotics.

[Connor1231]

What did you say MSM is? And I think some of that technology is cool but it comes with problems (like the virtual hell and hacking i talked about). Also, I don't think I'd want to live a million years, no matter how great it is. A few hundred is plenty for me. And lastly, I myself am religious and see no reason why somebody couldn't maintain their beliefs during a technological revolution.

[nferrier]

If you can make it to ~2025, then there is a strong chance you will never have to die.

Were going to be at the point (since science improves exponentially) that your life expectancy starts increasing faster than you can age.

Things such as stem cell research and the ability to grow complete new organs from your own stem cells will mean your body will 100% accept them and they will work flawlessly, since they are in reality your own organs to begin with.

It's pretty exciting stuff, and that doesn't even get into the discussion of when we make the breakthrough with nanobots and what that will do to our life expectancy.

The problem is that it's going to insanely expensive. This means we'll have celebs like Kim K living way beyond normal means while common folk, even if more deserving of the technology, rot away.

[Benny_Lava]

everyone who likes this, read "Physics of the Future" by Michio Kaku.. Basically lays out a timeline of what we'll be seeing technology wise in every category you can imagine between the next 10 years to 100+ years. Easy read and awesome read.

The topics/chapters

1.1 Future of the Computer: Mind over Matter
1.2 Future of AI: Rise of the Machines
1.3 Future of Medicine: Perfection and Beyond
1.4 Nanotechnology: Everything from Nothing?
1.5 Future of Energy: Energy from the Stars
1.6 Future of Space Travel: To the Stars
1.7 Future of Wealth: Winners and Losers
1.8 Future of Humanity: Planetary Civilization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_of_the_Future

[Benny_Lava]

If you can make it to ~2025, then there is a strong chance you will never have to die.

Were going to be at the point (since science improves exponentially) that your life expectancy starts increasing faster than you can age.

Things such as stem cell research and the ability to grow complete new organs from your own stem cells will mean your body will 100% accept them and they will work flawlessly, since they are in reality your own organs to begin with.

It's pretty exciting stuff, and that doesn't even get into the discussion of when we make the breakthrough with nanobots and what that will do to our life expectancy.

WTF would be the purpose of this? Yay world population explodes to 30 billion in 5 years, every square inch of earth is as packed as China, everyone starves because not only is there not enough food, farm land is hard to come by as people are everywhere.

Even with the population growth now, we'll never get off this planet and out of our solar system to another planet with useful resources before the earth is a useless dried up raisin of a planet

[everblue]

That's why I hate when religious people try to break down scientific advancements like stem cell research, religion should be banned from political office, you do not need to be religious to know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil!

Religious (christian) person reporting in.

It's not religious people in general trying to inhibit scientific advancement, it's the loud extremists that bitch and moan.

I'm all for stem cell research and any other advancement that benefits our civilization as well as separation of church and state.



everyone who likes this, read "Physics of the Future" by Michio Kaku.. Basically lays out a timeline of what we'll be seeing technology wise in every category you can imagine between the next 10 years to 100+ years. Easy read and awesome read.

The topics/chapters

1.1 Future of the Computer: Mind over Matter
1.2 Future of AI: Rise of the Machines
1.3 Future of Medicine: Perfection and Beyond
1.4 Nanotechnology: Everything from Nothing?
1.5 Future of Energy: Energy from the Stars
1.6 Future of Space Travel: To the Stars
1.7 Future of Wealth: Winners and Losers
1.8 Future of Humanity: Planetary Civilization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_of_the_Future

Reps for recommending this book. I have a copy signed by Dr. Kaku himself :D

[nferrier]

WTF would be the purpose of this? Yay world population explodes to 30 billion in 5 years, every square inch of earth is as packed as China, everyone starves because not only is there not enough food, farm land is hard to come by as people are everywhere.

Even with the population growth now, we'll never get off this planet and out of our solar system to another planet with useful resources before the earth is a useless dried up raisin of a planet

Not everyone will be able to afford it.

[Connor1231]

Affording it set aside, I don't know if I'd want it. Perfecting human biology, sure. Living for millions of years virtually with no guarantee of safety, no food, sports, girls...I mean I like being a human! And that's not to mention the risks of having your mind and infinite copies exposed to anyone anywhere.

[Connor1231]

Also any input on whether it'd be possible to totally protect your mind in the future, and maintain control over it? I've heard it compared to money in a bank, where it is very secure but still possible to be hacked. I wouldn't want to risk virtual hell for the small chance someone hacks me. Is there a way you could make mind uploading or future technology where you still 100% control your mind and nobody else has access?

[Benny_Lava]

Not everyone will be able to afford it.

it'll be 10 years before its affordable, max. like any other new form of tech

[IronRooster2]

On the population issues:

One thing I find pretty lulzy the magic of compound interest. If we really, really wanted to try to get it on and make a lot of kids, and put a lot of effort into just that, and we had no worries about that pesky restraint of resources... the collective mass in the universe made up of human bodies could surpass the mass of a star within a ~thousand years in theory.

Thankfully (or unthankfully.. more thankfully) developing nations all have declining birthrates. Japan in particular has a birthrate in the toilet - less than the death rate.


you don't think "mind uploading" is possible but a brain made of say silicon or something is? That's what I was getting at.. Doesn't that seem more realistic and more safe? What do you think about my concern over psychos creating virtual hells or the ability for your mind to be hacked and abused? I think this is a problem that just replacing your own brain with mechanical parts would solve.

Duplicating a mind is obviously possible; it's just a sheet of meat. Why would you want to do it, when it won't transfer your qualia and you'll have machines 10,000x million times better than any human mind well... the only application that comes to mind would be entertainment; having a copy of your brain on file would speed up the development of desirable games/tv shows developed just for you.

Worrying about more awful things people can do to you is a bit silly. There are already people trapped in private hells: human trafficking.


Affording it set aside, I don't know if I'd want it. Perfecting human biology, sure. Living for millions of years virtually with no guarantee of safety, no food, sports, girls...I mean I like being a human!

I'm pretty sure we'll have those android wimmenz long before we can perfectly duplicate a brain without damaging it.

I've been wanting to read Love and Sex With Robots for awhile now...

[nferrier]

it'll be 10 years before its affordable, max. like any other new form of tech

Is that why medical care now is so cheap? The technology itself might become inexpensive, but the cost to the individual will remain high.

[Connor1231]

I agree, I don't think we'd want to do it besides for entertainment.

And the private hells of human trafficking last 50 years tops... The virtual hells of an uploaded mind could be much worse, have no chance of escape, and last millions of years.

So you'd be willing to risk that to upload your mind?

[Connor1231]

I agree, I don't think we'd want to do it besides for entertainment.

And the private hells of human trafficking last 50 years tops... The virtual hells of an uploaded mind could be much worse, have no chance of escape, and last millions of years.

So you'd be willing to risk that to upload your mind?

[IronRooster2]

Is that why medical care now is so cheap? The technology itself might become inexpensive, but the cost to the individual will remain high.

The prosperity sink of a mandated monopoly is kind of depressing.

Who knows. Maybe in the future (where drivers are rendered obsolete as a job human beings do, among other things) public opinion will finally crush it. Texas is already trending away from the GOP, so who knows the crazy (relative to the current overton window) places we might go in the future.

[Connor1231]

I agree, I don't think we'd want to do it besides for entertainment.

And the private hells of human trafficking last 50 years tops... The virtual hells of an uploaded mind could be much worse, have no chance of escape, and last millions of years.

So you'd be willing to risk that to upload your mind?

Any thoughts on this? Or how we could take measures to prevent it?

[wolfram22]

when will they learn how to greatly reduce aging?

trying to live as long as i can crew checking in

[DrBroscientist]

I read an intredasting series a while ago. They backed up your brain in memory banks so if you died they could "revive" you but this was only a last resort. People had memory devices implanted in their heads which stored your memory. I.e. if you died and the memory device wasn't destroyed they could revive you as you were because your brain simply stored your memory in the device. There was continuity. On the other hand if you died and your head got crushed or some cht they'd have to revive a backup which really isn't you.

[IronRooster2]

when will they learn how to greatly reduce aging?

Maybe soon after when we see it being proposed as a national goal we should go balls in with, like with the moon landing. (One of those instances of kicking reason to the curb and making the impossible possible.)

About ten years ago, my ex once shot an Emal to de Grey (the biggest cheerleader of the effort) and got an email back within about an hour. That the man had the free time to chit chat with lookie-loos cast a pall on the likelihood of making any massive improvements close to any time soon.

A treatment that does anything will have to be more complicated than a simple injection or pill. At the very least, something like an engineered virus.

It's pathetic that the best thing we have available now is "eat less, you'll burn through your body slower that way". But that's what happens when you don't prioritize achieving the impossible.

[Connor1231]

So none of you seem concerned with the virtual hell, being subject to abuse, losing control of your own mind. I mean don't get me wrong then upside is great...I'm just wary of the dangers that scare the hell out of me and nobody seems to take seriously

[lampelys]

I don't see how you could actually transfer consciousness though, that's the one part that I don't see happening. Sounds interesting, but you would also never be able to tell if consciousness was truly transferred until you tried it yourself. Consider a person being "transferred", no matter what you'd ask the new person it would act as an exact copy and you would assume it was the original, but the original could still be dead/lost. Mind blown.

http://i.imgur.com/AABbJ.gif

[Bar182]

I don't see how you could actually transfer consciousness though, that's the one part that I don't see happening. Sounds interesting, but you would also never be able to tell if consciousness was truly transferred until you tried it yourself. Consider a person being "transferred", no matter what you'd ask the new person it would act as an exact copy and you would assume it was the original, but the original could still be dead/lost. Mind blown.

http://i.imgur.com/AABbJ.gif

You can't make such a statement like "we will never know". Think 100/1000/10,000 years from now. The knowledge at our disposable will be incredible.

I agree with your second bit, how will we ever be able to tell if it is actually "you"?

You could copy your mind to a cyborg body, are you then living two realities?

You could think maybe we could replace the brain one atom at a time with an artificial replacement, so you are still you but you till get the problem when the whole brain becomes artificial.

We need a lot more research into consciousness before anything can be considered.

[lampelys]

You can't make such a statement like "we will never know". Think 100/1000/10,000 years from now. The knowledge at our disposable will be incredible.

I agree with your second bit, how will we ever be able to tell if it is actually "you"?

You could copy your mind to a cyborg body, are you then living two realities?

You could think maybe we could replace the brain one atom at a time with an artificial replacement, so you are still you but you till get the problem when the whole brain becomes artificial.

We need a lot more research into consciousness before anything can be considered.


Only thing I meant by that is that (the way I see it, and based on my limited knowledge on the subject) from any outsider's perspective it's "impossible" to tell the difference between a clone and original. At this point I think too little is known about what consciousness really is. Didn't mean we will never know, that's a bad mindset to have.

[Connor1231]

I don't see how you could actually transfer consciousness though, that's the one part that I don't see happening. Sounds interesting, but you would also never be able to tell if consciousness was truly transferred until you tried it yourself. Consider a person being "transferred", no matter what you'd ask the new person it would act as an exact copy and you would assume it was the original, but the original could still be dead/lost. Mind blown.



See, if it's not actually you, then my concerns about the dangers of mind uploading aren't relevant. I almost hope it wouldn't truly be you. Because if it is, then anyone could make infinite "copies" of you, and do whatever they wanted with any number of them, and you would experience them all with no way to escape. How awful is that. Now if it's not truly you, on the other hand, this problem doesn't arise. And we could still try to replace atoms one at a time in the brain and see what happens, or prevent biological aging, but we would never be able to "hook ourselves up" to some big virtual reality and live as minds without bodies there. And that, in my opinion, is a good thing.

[IronRooster2]

Also everytime someone teleports in Star Trek: That person is being murdered and then a fedex'ed copy is made out of some dirty spare dirt and air they found laying around.

[Connor1231]

You never know though maybe it would work and you would be experiencing two realities. Or however many copies you made of yourself. That doesn't seem like much of a life though. Those of you who are advocates of it, what do you see as so great about living without a body in a computer? And what do you think of the risks I posed?

[Connor1231]

There are 3 concerns i have with mind uploading.

1. does it run in direct contrast to religion? I am a Christian, but so often mind uploading advocates are staunchly opposed to anything religious, and vise versa. and you talk about how mind uploading would disprove the soul. is this really true, or just an unnecessary rivalry. could you be a Christian mind-uploading advocate?

2. I’ve heard horror stories about people losing control over their “mind” when it is uploaded, since it is not online for anybody to hack and make copies. People could hack into your mind, and copy it, and throw the digital “you” into a virtual hell, torture you, or use you however they want. and if you experience the same things as copies of yourself, as you have suggested, you would be subject to experiencing torture and abuse for millions of years, if somebody decided they wanted to hack your mind. This is truly terrifying, and it would be enough to make me hesitant to upload myself, unless there was a way to 100% guarantee your mind was protected or isolated like it is now, in your head. do you think there’s a way?

3. What would you do in a virtual world with a digital brain? No body, sports, no things to work at and improve at (because you could just “program” yourself to be able to do whatever). what’s the fun in that? where’s the adventure, and sense of accomplishment? also, without a body, what would you do for fun? how about sex?! it just seems rather boring to be a digital mind confined to life in a computer for an unlimited number of years.

if you guys could deal with those 3 concerns that’d be awesome, and i’d be totally on board for this technology!

[PureCardio]

I think if the technology to live for a very long time is developed soon, there will be quite a few problems.

I don't think the public will know about this kind of tech for a while, with only elite people receiving the treatment. If it ever hits the market with a (high) dollar amount, there will be mass crime. I can't imagine people living peacefully to their death's while others live for as long as the current technology allows them.


Now with the resource problem. I think if the technology is affordable for just about everybody, there will have to be an ultimatum or something. Either you get to live indefinitely or have no children. It's a tremendous incentive to decrease the population that currently looks to be higher than carrying capacity.

[Connor1231]

No response to any of my 3 concerns?

[Weezy32]

Its called AEV, look it up! (Acturial Escape Velocity) Aging will eventually become a thing of the past. I was watching a show on the discovery channel a while back...In it, they talked about the possibility of living to 1000 years. The aging process is a disease, and it can be reveresed and halted. We are no where near this being reality yet, but we are approaching the path to immortality. With advancements in Nano tech, and Bio tech, its only a matter of time.



I remember watching that show ... Great documentary you can watch it here for the people that are interested

http://watchdocumentary.org/watch/thats-impossible-episode-04-eternal-life-video_872a06513.html

[Agentdark45]

That feel when born too soon.

[Huberus]

Be cool if it turns out that way but, just sayin', everyone was expecting flying cars by 2000.

[Huberus]

There are 3 concerns i have with mind uploading.

1. does it run in direct contrast to religion? I am a Christian, but so often mind uploading advocates are staunchly opposed to anything religious, and vise versa. and you talk about how mind uploading would disprove the soul. is this really true, or just an unnecessary rivalry. could you be a Christian mind-uploading advocate?

2. I’ve heard horror stories about people losing control over their “mind” when it is uploaded, since it is not online for anybody to hack and make copies. People could hack into your mind, and copy it, and throw the digital “you” into a virtual hell, torture you, or use you however they want. and if you experience the same things as copies of yourself, as you have suggested, you would be subject to experiencing torture and abuse for millions of years, if somebody decided they wanted to hack your mind. This is truly terrifying, and it would be enough to make me hesitant to upload myself, unless there was a way to 100% guarantee your mind was protected or isolated like it is now, in your head. do you think there’s a way?

3. What would you do in a virtual world with a digital brain? No body, sports, no things to work at and improve at (because you could just “program” yourself to be able to do whatever). what’s the fun in that? where’s the adventure, and sense of accomplishment? also, without a body, what would you do for fun? how about sex?! it just seems rather boring to be a digital mind confined to life in a computer for an unlimited number of years.

if you guys could deal with those 3 concerns that’d be awesome, and i’d be totally on board for this technology!

1. Who cares

2. If the tech came to fruition, it would be a little more involved than a cloud save on some unsecured server.

3. Enjoy whatever you want in any way you wanted to enjoy it. The whole point of working toward being good at something is to reach the point where you are good enough to enjoy it.

[MajorKobraK]

Also everytime someone teleports in Star Trek: That person is being murdered and then a fedex'ed copy is made out of some dirty spare dirt and air they found laying around.
Never thought of it that way

[Odin21]

That feel when born too soon.

are we?

[IronRooster2]

Be cool if it turns out that way but, just sayin', everyone was expecting flying cars by 2000.

Ah, back in the days when we used to dream. We don't dream anymore - which is the saddest thing about our zeitgeist.

Technically we did have flying cars back in the 40's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterman_Arrowbile), it's just remarkably impractical in practice. You'd need landing strips everywhere that don't exist and air traffic control guys to make sure only a few people ****ing die on them. Going down the road five minutes to Wal-Mart could take hours.

Even if vertical landing and takeoff were mass marketable, you still have the issue of falling out of the ****ing sky in event of vehicle failure. For mass market, I think we're more likely to see support for high-speed magnetic rail. (The ultimate vehicle is a train inside a vacuum btw - the so-called vactrain. The earth is actually too small for it to use its full speed - it has to accelerate and decelerate the entire time to keep from killing the people inside.)

But the flying car could someday be a staple for police and emergency responders.

.. My overall point is those people back then aren't as nutty as you'd think. Not really.


Either you get to live indefinitely or have no children.

Something like free RISUG for anyone that wants it, so you have to opt-in to conceiving a kid... the thing is, a kid lottery might not even be necessary. Japan has a birth rate lower than its death rate, and in a utopian Star Trekian wonderland with all the entertainment you could possibly want, only weirdos would want smelly kids.

One of the odder concepts of what's physically possible, is conceiving children with androids. When you could manufacture sperm or eggs with DNA that matches what would have created that artificial person, that's like playing god.

And as we all know from Simcity 2000, playing god can be pretty awesome/creepy sometimes.