So You Want To Become a Doctor, Eh?

[rampagefc77]

you don't need to do research, such a common misconception. As long as you do something else that is productive and interesting during the summers research is irrelevant. That being said there are research universities, but even they like to take diverse students.

You do have to shadow.

I'd highly recommend getting a job in a healthcare facility, even if it means tossing your ego to the side and working as a CNA or EMT-B. There's so much to be learned in these positions that cannot be replicated by counting cells in a lab doing a research project. I've done both-- one I'm applying to my coursework on a daily basis, the other I probably couldn't even tell you the results of my experiment were...

[B.O.L.A.]

you don't need to do research, such a common misconception. As long as you do something else that is productive and interesting during the summers research is irrelevant. That being said there are research universities, but even they like to take diverse students.

You do have to shadow.

I didn't. No research neither. :cool:

Bottom line is people should do whatever they are passionate about. If they are truly meant to go into medicine, their interests will coincide with traits of attractive med school applicants- grades, research, clinical exposure, volunteering, etc. For me I loved doing EKGs in a hospital and could speak very enthusiastically about it, and I think that's what set me apart and got me in.

[G-mane12]

Is it drugs or alcohol? I know that I can't get my board certification if I have any kind of drug or alcohol charge in the past. Not sure if that includes minor in possession or things before you were 18. I know the school I'm in still hasn't run our background checks yet even though they were supposed to before admission, but they told us to not even bother with school if you have a DUI or the like because it's just a waste of money since you'll never get your license.

what? are you talking about med or dental school? I know people in both with DUI's. It might be a little bit harder to get licensed but its not impossible by any means.

[moosecakes4all]

I'm at UNSW right now (literally on a computer in wallace wurth) doing honours. I did Med Sci as an undergrad, with an overall WAM of 83.76 + GAMSAT 71 percentile, got knocked back from Usyd. Hoping to get HONS I to boost my WAM up in to HD territory + get a bit of a better mark in GAMSAT.
I see you are researching prostate cancer.
What do you think about hypericin?

[rampagefc77]

what? are you talking about med or dental school? I know people in both with DUI's. It might be a little bit harder to get licensed but its not impossible by any means.

PA school is what she is refering to. And even if you pass boards with a perfect score you still have to appeal your case to the state and it is highly unlikely that you will be certified.

[F23]

you don't need to do research, such a common misconception. As long as you do something else that is productive and interesting during the summers research is irrelevant. That being said there are research universities, but even they like to take diverse students.

You do have to shadow.

I disagree. You pretty much need to do research of some sort to be a competitive applicant. Almost everyone in my med school class had done research of some sort. This may not be true at lower tier state med schools, but it's de rigueur at any decent program.

Also, when I'm interviewing a med school applicant, it's something I look for. I have yet to interview an applicant who doesn't have any research experience.

[G-mane12]

PA school is what she is refering to. And even if you pass boards with a perfect score you still have to appeal your case to the state and it is highly unlikely that you will be certified.

I don't know man. I was reading on paforum.com that as long as its your first and only offense you still should be able to get certified. Maybe if the offense was recent (last 3-5 years) it would be a major problem but I really couldn't see a board not giving someone a license to practice with only one offense.


I say this because I've read about people that have done alot worse (multiple DUI's etc) that have gotten into pa/dental/med school. And I have hard time believing one of those schools would accept someone that wouldn't be able to get licensed.

[moosecakes4all]

I disagree. You pretty much need to do research of some sort to be a competitive applicant. Almost everyone in my med school class had done research of some sort. This may not be true at lower tier state med schools, but it's de rigueur at any decent program.

Also, when I'm interviewing a med school applicant, it's something I look for. I have yet to interview an applicant who doesn't have any research experience.

You are an interviewer?

[F23]

You are an interviewer?

Yeah at my med school, med students do one of the interviews. I've interviewed 6 ppl so far - not so many.

[moosecakes4all]

Yeah at my med school, med students do one of the interviews. I've interviewed 6 ppl so far - not so many.

Well what do you supposed I do about my GPA? Its at a 3.96, from a small "neverheardofit U", and I anticipate it will only rise, since Ive only got one non-A grade from trying to learn how I study best my very first semester. Ive started research as freshman and going to continue through senior year, been volunteering in a patient care oriented program since freshman year, been highly involved in school science clubs and various EC's and I know all my professors very well. (Its a small school). Your post about med schools not taking GPA's from less popular schools has got me worried. Im going to be putting in a solid 6+ months into MCAT studying to try to knock it out of the park.

[F23]

Well what do you supposed I do about my GPA? Its at a 3.96, from a small "neverheardofit U", and I anticipate it will only rise, since Ive only got one non-A grade from trying to learn how I study best my very first semester. Ive started research as freshman and going to continue through senior year, been volunteering in a patient care oriented program since freshman year, been highly involved in school science clubs and various EC's and I know all my professors very well. (Its a small school). Your post about med schools not taking GPA's from less popular schools has got me worried. Im going to be putting in a solid 6+ months into MCAT studying to try to knock it out of the park.

3.96 is great don't get me wrong. You're only 19, so I assume you're early in your college career. Keep up the GPA and get a solid 31+ on your MCAT and so all the requisite activities, and you should be fine.

[moosecakes4all]

3.96 is great don't get me wrong. You're only 19, so I assume you're early in your college career. Keep up the GPA and get a solid 31+ on your MCAT and so all the requisite activities, and you should be fine.

Alright thanks!

[moosecakes4all]

3.96 is great don't get me wrong. You're only 19, so I assume you're early in your college career. Keep up the GPA and get a solid 31+ on your MCAT and so all the requisite activities, and you should be fine.

By the way, my advisor told me to try as hard as I possibly can to get an A in organic chem. He told me some medical schools will flat out not even look at your app unless you got A's in o chem. I believe him since he taught at a well known medical school. I finished the first semester 2 weeks ago, and got my A, and my first test of second semester was an A also, and organic really makes sense to me so I expect to keep my A, but for conversations sake, how true is that?

[rampagefc77]

By the way, my advisor told me to try as hard as I possibly can to get an A in organic chem. He told me some medical schools will flat out not even look at your app unless you got A's in o chem. I believe him since he taught at a well known medical school. I finished the first semester 2 weeks ago, and got my A, and my first test of second semester was an A also, and organic really makes sense to me so I expect to keep my A, but for conversations sake, how true is that?

LOL strong scare tactics. Yes, grad schools look highly on performance in O-chem because it has the reputation of being a ball buster, but it is one of the more overrated courses from my experience. I know people that didn't get A's in ochem and got into med school... Let's keep in mind the national average GPA for med schools is in the upper 3.5's. If you are looking at ivy league med schools then maintain a 3.9+ and score 38 on your mcat. My home state has 2 highly regarded programs and the averages of students at those were GPAs in the 3.6-3.7 range and mcats in the 31-33 range. A friend of mine got into a top 25 program (if you put any stock in ratings...) with a 3.9+ gpa, 28 mcat, some research, no work or practical experience, no outside clubs, etc.

You dont have to be "perfect" to get into a good program..

[F23]

By the way, my advisor told me to try as hard as I possibly can to get an A in organic chem. He told me some medical schools will flat out not even look at your app unless you got A's in o chem. I believe him since he taught at a well known medical school. I finished the first semester 2 weeks ago, and got my A, and my first test of second semester was an A also, and organic really makes sense to me so I expect to keep my A, but for conversations sake, how true is that?

Lol not true at all. I couldn't give a flying **** what you got on O Chem.

Bio and biochem are the most important science topics. O chem, P chem, and physics - not so much. Stats are important, too, IMO.

Bio/biochem > stats/math > Ochem > Pchem, Physics > humanities

Edit: 2 more points
1.) Most Adcoms spend around 5-15 minutes total on your application, even if you are eventually accepted. So, I don't expect them to devote the time to look at your O chem grades
2.) Obviously, try to get A's anyway to keep your GPA in the 3.9's.

[B.O.L.A.]

Lol not true at all. I couldn't give a flying **** what you got on O Chem.

Bio and biochem are the most important science topics. O chem, P chem, and physics - not so much. Stats are important, too, IMO.

Bio/biochem > stats/math > Ochem > Pchem, Physics > humanities

Edit: 2 more points
1.) Most Adcoms spend around 5-15 minutes total on your application, even if you are eventually accepted. So, I don't expect them to devote the time to look at your O chem grades
2.) Obviously, try to get A's anyway to keep your GPA in the 3.9's.


I disagree. You pretty much need to do research of some sort to be a competitive applicant. Almost everyone in my med school class had done research of some sort. This may not be true at lower tier state med schools, but it's de rigueur at any decent program.

Also, when I'm interviewing a med school applicant, it's something I look for. I have yet to interview an applicant who doesn't have any research experience.

Dude, I think you are being a little rigid about the resume stats...I'm at a mid to upper tier school and I've defied every one of your criteria so far. Lacking research, or any one thing really, can almost always be made up for by other aspects of the application. It's not like a summa cum laude, double major, part-time paramedic, scholar athlete is going to walk in and be scolded by his interviewer, "I see you forgot ze rezearch!!11!" There is no perfect cookie cutter pre-med. In fact, if one did exist, that person would be inherently flawed, because they wouldn't have thoughts or a life of their own, and would make a pretty sh*tty physician.

So moosecakes, please, chill about the 3.96, and please do not study 6 months for the MCAT. 3 is fine if you understand the material to begin with. The best thing you can do is learn about two things- yourself, and medicine, and then define the connection between the two.

[moosecakes4all]

Thanks for the posts guys! Good info for sure!

[F23]

Dude, I think you are being a little rigid about the resume stats...I'm at a mid to upper tier school and I've defied every one of your criteria so far. Lacking research, or any one thing really, can almost always be made up for by other aspects of the application. It's not like a summa cum laude, double major, part-time paramedic, scholar athlete is going to walk in and be scolded by his interviewer, "I see you forgot ze rezearch!!11!" There is no perfect cookie cutter pre-med. In fact, if one did exist, that person would be inherently flawed, because they wouldn't have thoughts or a life of their own, and would make a pretty sh*tty physician.


Are you at an US allopathic school? If not, that could explain it.

Are you an underrepresented minority, i.e. black, latino, native american, or pacific islander? If so, that could explain it.

I mean, it's possible to get in without some key criteria, but it's far more difficult. It's pretty amazing that you were accepted IMO unless you had other activities/qualifications that made up for it.

[rampagefc77]

Are you at an US allopathic school? If not, that could explain it.

Are you an underrepresented minority, i.e. black, latino, native american, or pacific islander? If so, that could explain it.

I mean, it's possible to get in without some key criteria, but it's far more difficult. It's pretty amazing that you were accepted IMO.

In terms of application to a medical curriculum, research is about the least important thing imo. I know that most med schools look at it, but it is not going to benefit you in a clinical setting. Research topics are too specific... my undergrad research involved microtubule organization in mutant chlamydomonas-- I think we had about 1 slide on microtubules in PA school and then quickly moved on.

I still hold clinical experience to be far more applicable/important than research. Patients don't care if you can pipette for 3 hours without cramping and make a fancy poster with a long title..

[F23]

In terms of application to a medical curriculum, research is about the least important thing imo. I know that most med schools look at it, but it is not going to benefit you in a clinical setting. Research topics are too specific... my undergrad research involved microtubule organization in mutant chlamydomonas-- I think we had about 1 slide on microtubules in PA school and then quickly moved on.

I still hold clinical experience to be far more applicable/important than research. Patients don't care if you can pipette for 3 hours without cramping and make a fancy poster with a long title..

Dude. You're a PA student. Your'e not going to be a doctor.

No, it's not directly applicable to the medical school curriculum, but it's VERY applicable to residency and a career as a physician. Any half-decent residency program wants to see research under your belt, and it's difficult to start researching in med school if you had no research experience in undergrad. Publications are one of the biggest part's of an MD's CV - research is important, bro.

[rampagefc77]

Dude. You're a PA student. Your'e not going to be a doctor.

No, it's not directly applicable to the medical school curriculum, but it's VERY applicable to residency and a career as a physician. Any half-decent residency program wants to see research under your belt, and it's difficult to start researching in med school if you had no research experience in undergrad. Publications are one of the biggest part's of an MD's CV - research is important, bro.

Yessir. I can already tell that you will make an excellent physician based on the humility reflected in your posts....

Someone needs to get off their high horse. I know that I am a PA student and Im not going to be a doctor... how does that relate to what I posted exactly? Regardless, you and I will be doing the same job in the end, diagnosing and treating patients. Not sure why that seems to bother you do much.

Residencies primarily care about class rank, standardized test scores, and letters of req from your rotations. You wont get a neurosurgery residency because of a bs research project you did as a freshman in college.

[F23]

Yessir. I can already tell that you will make an excellent physician based on the humility reflected in your posts....

Someone needs to get off their high horse. I know that I am a PA student and Im not going to be a doctor... how does that relate to what I posted exactly? Regardless, you and I will be doing the same job in the end, diagnosing and treating patients. Not sure why that seems to bother you do much.

Residencies primarily care about class rank, standardized test scores, and letters of req from your rotations.

Bro, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're voicing opinions on the value of research when research has no role in the career of a PA. You're not in a position to have an opinion on the matter and are misleading the premeds on the forum. It's sort of like a paralegal instructing a lawyer.

1.) Residencies, at least the competitive fields such as radiology, dermatology, ENT, ortho, neurosurg, radonc, etc, all require research. I'm going for rads myself and the average number of pubs/abstracts for an applicant is ~7; the same goes for the other competitive specialties. Letters of rec from rotations count, but it's not always from a big name - that's the other purpose of research - to work with a big name in the department. But, you'll never be applying for residency, so you would never know this.

2.) No, we won't be doing the same job. You probably haven't spent much time on the wards so you don't appreciate your role yet. You'll maybe function at near the capacity of a PCP or internist in a primary care setting. You're basically a glorified nurse.

[rampagefc77]

You're basically a glorified nurse.

I lol'd. Thank god you are going into radiology (hopefully not interventional, the thought out you leaving the dark room to actually have to interact with patients/other staff is scary.)

FWIW- I've watched CT PA's place their own bypass grafts, in IR I've watched them do everything the MD did (thora, para, PICC, perm cath, etc.) in ortho I've watched bilateral knee replacements where the MD did 1 and the PA did the other. Yes, glorified nurses.

[F23]

I lol'd. Thank god you are going into radiology (hopefully not interventional, the thought out you leaving the dark room to actually have to interact with patients/other staff is scary.)

FWIW- I've watched CT PA's place their own bypass grafts, in IR I've watched them do everything the MD did (thora, para, PICC, perm cath, etc.) in ortho I've watched bilateral knee replacements where the MD did 1 and the PA did the other. Yes, glorified nurses.

This is exactly what the PA's I've worked with said - it's what they used to think. "I used to think I was going to be a physician's assistant, but now I know I'm just a physician's bitch." Direct quote. BTW, nurses place all those lines, too.

No, I'll actually be interacting with patients - most radiologists just choose not to... That is, if I choose to go into it.

Edit: Sorry I went off on you, but Jesus Christ - A 22yo PA student lecturing a 4th year med student on the importance (or lack thereof) of medical research in med school, saying you know what residency directors look for in applicants, and claiming that PA's do the same thing as doctors? Learn your place bro.

[NeoSeminole]

1.) Residencies, at least the competitive fields such as radiology, dermatology, ENT, ortho, neurosurg, radonc, etc, all require research.

sorry to interrupt, but what is your evidence for this? My radiology professor told us and even showed a statistic that said radiology is one of the least competitive fields due to so few physicians accepting residencies in radiology. A lot has to do with the high sue rate compared to all the other specialties

[NeoSeminole]

You're basically a glorified nurse.

ahh, sorry to interrupt again. Nurses don't diagnose and treat as far as I know, unless you want to talk about NP's which are educated under the nursing model. PA's follow the medical model like med students

[rampagefc77]

This is exactly what the PA's I've worked with said - it's what they used to think. "I used to think I was going to be a physician's assistant, but now I know I'm just a physician's bitch." Direct quote. BTW, nurses place all those lines, too.

No, I'll actually be interacting with patients - most radiologists just choose not to... That is, if I choose to go into it.

Edit: Sorry I went off on you, but Jesus Christ - A 22yo PA student lecturing a 4th year med student on the importance of medical research in med school and what residency directors look for in applicants? Learn your place bro.

You are right, I never looked into med school, I've never looked at the requirements, I've never had THIS EXACT DISCUSSION with the medical students at my own program regarding residencies... I said undergrad research wouldn't better prepare you for med school in comparison to actual clinical work... you have yet to refute that aside from continually trying to find ways to degrade me and twist words.

So far in this thread you have chosen to insult the PAs, insult other med students who don't fit your mold... This has basically been an ego trip for you from the start.

[moosecakes4all]

sorry to interrupt, but what is your evidence for this? My radiology professor told us and even showed a statistic that said radiology is one of the least competitive fields due to so few physicians accepting residencies in radiology. A lot has to do with the high sue rate compared to all the other specialties

Rads is one of the single MOST competitive specialties man...not sure why he said that. Good hours, good pay, good lifestyle = competitive specialty.

[F23]

sorry to interrupt, but what is your evidence for this? My radiology professor told us and even showed a statistic that said radiology is one of the least competitive fields due to so few physicians accepting residencies in radiology. A lot has to do with the high sue rate compared to all the other specialties

:rolleyes: You're kidding, right? Rads matches are among the most competitive in terms of scores. It's true that malpractice is an issue, but the salary more than compensates for it.

Check out the stats for yourself: http://www.aamc.org/programs/cim/chartingoutcomes.pdf

[rampagefc77]

sorry to interrupt, but what is your evidence for this? My radiology professor told us and even showed a statistic that said radiology is one of the least competitive fields due to so few physicians accepting residencies in radiology. A lot has to do with the high sue rate compared to all the other specialties

The radiology professor was teaching PAs, therefore that material is likely unreliable. They save all of the factual material for the med students... except when PAs/MDs take the class side by side, in which case they are forced to present the same material to each. But in this case, the MDs get a lecture hall with leather sofas and free appetizers, while the PAs get old wooden chairs that leave splinters on your ass.

[F23]

You are right, I never looked into med school, I've never looked at the requirements, I've never had THIS EXACT DISCUSSION with the medical students at my own program regarding residencies... I said undergrad research wouldn't better prepare you for med school in comparison to actual clinical work... you have yet to refute that aside from continually trying to find ways to degrade me and twist words.

So far in this thread you have chosen to insult the PAs, insult other med students who don't fit your mold... This has basically been an ego trip for you from the start.

I'm just telling the truth. If you don't like it, it's your problem.

[rampagefc77]

:rolleyes: You're kidding, right? Rads matches are among the most competitive in terms of scores. It's true that malpractice is an issue, but the salary more than compensates for it.

Check out the stats for yourself: http://www.aamc.org/programs/cim/chartingoutcomes.pdf

test scores dont matter brah, its all about the research! get your facts right.

[F23]

test scores dont matter brah, its all about the research! get your facts right.

There's a chart for that, too. It's included in the same pdf i believe.

[rampagefc77]

There's a chart for that, too. It's included in the same pdf i believe.

wouldn't doubt it, just ironic that after your whole argument as to why research was so vital for being competitive for medical residencies, the first article you pull up to prove the competitiveness of a specialty was test scores...

[NeoSeminole]

You're kidding, right? Rads matches are among the most competitive in terms of scores. It's true that malpractice is an issue, but the salary more than compensates for it.

dunno what "rads matches" are. Perhaps you could educate me? Also, how does that make radiology a competitive residency to get into? Are there many applicants and few seats?


Check out the stats for yourself: http://www.aamc.org/programs/cim/chartingoutcomes.pdf

c'mon brah, you can't give me a 281 page document and expect me to search for a specific line that proves what you said. What page number and paragraph so I can narrow my search down?

[F23]

wouldn't doubt it, just ironic that after your whole argument as to why research was so vital for being competitive for medical residencies, the first article you pull up to prove the competitiveness of a specialty was test scores...

Did I say anywhere that test scores were not important? My main argument earlier was that research was important IN ADDITION to test scores, class rank, etc. Which was basically to refute your point that research wasn't important in medical school. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[F23]

dunno what "rads matches" are. Perhaps you could educate me? Also, how does that make radiology a competitive residency to get into? Are there many applicants and few seats?

A "match" means being accepted into a residency. High test scores = competitive, obviously. Yes, there's a limited number of slots for each residency.




c'mon brah, you can't give me a 281 page document and expect me to search for a specific line that proves what you said. What page number and paragraph so I can narrow my search down?

There's a table of contents. Look at diagnostic radiology, p44 I think.

[rampagefc77]

Did I say anywhere that test scores were not important? My main argument earlier was that research was important IN ADDITION to test scores, class rank, etc. Which was basically to refute your point that research wasn't important in medical school. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm actually still curious as to how any med student could have 7 published articles if they hadn't been a ph d candidate in the past... In undergrad the quality of research likely isn't good enough for publication. If you work as a lab rat for a few years after graduation you might get your name as 10th author on a couple papers, but still not 7... Of all the people I know in med school, only 1 has a published article that I can think of- and he's a 3rd author.

[F23]

I'm actually still curious as to how any med student could have 7 published articles if they hadn't been a ph d candidate in the past... In undergrad the quality of research likely isn't good enough for publication. If you work as a lab rat for a few years after graduation you might get your name as 10th author on a couple papers, but still not 7...

Research during med school, mostly. As I said, you need to get a start in undergrad so you can crank out papers in med school. Of course, most of these aren't first author pubs - you piggyback on your PI's pet projects.

And according to the chart, it's 6.2 -slight overestimate on my part. And that's papers + abstracts.

[rampagefc77]

Research during med school, mostly. As I said, you need to get a start in undergrad so you can crank out papers in med school. Of course, most of these aren't first author pubs - you piggyback on your PI's pet projects.

And according to the chart, it's 6.2 -slight overestimate on my part. And that's papers + abstracts.

Are we talking scholarly peer-reviewed articles appearing in journals, or -- here is an interesting patient I saw on rotations, let's write this unique case up? The amount of time it takes to write the former is months...

Also- PAs are required to write a masters thesis and present it at the end of their second/third year, depending on program length. So it's not like research does not pertain to PAs ;)

[F23]

Are we talking scholarly peer-reviewed articles appearing in journals, or -- here is an interesting patient I saw on rotations, let's write this unique case up? The amount of time it takes to write the former is months...

Also- PAs are required to write a masters thesis and present it at the end of their second/third year, depending on program length. So it's not like research does not pertain to PAs ;)

Yup, peer-reviewed stuff appearing in journals, the kind of thing you can look up on pubmed. It's months-years actually.

[jjones11]

I've really been thinking about studying physical therapy. Been mulling over what I want to do in my head for about a year now. If any physical therapy students could help me out and tell me what classes to take, how's the work load, what's your undergrad degree in, all that stuff.

[rampagefc77]

I've really been thinking about studying physical therapy. Been mulling over what I want to do in my head for about a year now. If any physical therapy students could help me out and tell me what classes to take, how's the work load, what's your undergrad degree in, all that stuff.

I'm not as familiar with PT but my undergrad had a PT program associated with it so a few of my friends went into it. Pre-reqs were similar to pre-med from my understanding- intro bio series, intro chem series, intro physics series, stats -- then classes may vary by school to include some of the following: organic chem, biochem, calc, english, psych, etc. The people I knew that ended up in PT had majors such as: bio, human bio, athletic training, etc.

Best advice- research schools you are interested in and determine what pre-reqs are required. PT is a graduate-level professional degree leading to a doctorate so the workload is intense. Look into becoming a PT aide/assistant to get some practical experience and see if the field is right for you.

[crunchymilk]

Rampage, don't take this the wrong way, but you really do need to realize a PA's role. If you don't see it now you'll be shocked later. I know that sounds like I'm being a jackass, but I'm sick of hearing the same thing. I go to a school that has a PA and PT program as well, and I can't tell you how many times I've met a dumb broad at a bar with this exact conversation,

"OMG I'm a PA student, that's sooooooo cool that you're going to be a doctor. You do know we study the exaaact same thing right? And we're gonna be doing pretty much the same thing. Did you know PA school is, like, even harder to get into?"

"bertstare" by me.

If it was like med school than it wouldn't be PA school. For the record, PA's have a great job, good money, little responsibility. It's a badass way to earn a living. But if I pay to see a doc and I only get to see a PA, I would rage. I just can't stand the little man syndrome many get.

[rampagefc77]

Yup, peer-reviewed stuff appearing in journals, the kind of thing you can look up on pubmed. It's months-years actually.

6 seems like a ridiculous number. Imagine if all med students pumped that out in their 4 years... a class of 250-300 students could publish 1800 articles?



motherofgod.jpeg

[crunchymilk]

I guess it really depends on how much your school emphasizes research. Very few at my school do research, but we always match into difficult residencies. It would be very hard to find the time, except during interview time when it would be too late.

[F23]

6 seems like a ridiculous number. Imagine if all med students pumped that out in their 4 years... a class of 250-300 students could publish 1800 articles?



motherofgod.jpeg

As I said, it's only like 3 because it's abstracts + papers. Only the competitive med students do this, though. Also, most aren't first author papers - most of the papers have like 5+ authors, too.

Right now I've got 4... gonna try for 7 by the time I'm out. :cool:

[rampagefc77]

Rampage, don't take this the wrong way, but you really do need to realize a PA's role. If you don't see it now you'll be shocked later. I know that sounds like I'm being a jackass, but I'm sick of hearing the same thing. I go to a school that has a PA and PT program as well, and I can't tell you how many times I've met a dumb broad at a bar with this exact conversation,

"OMG I'm a PA student, that's sooooooo cool that you're going to be a doctor. You do know we study the exaaact same thing right? And we're gonna be doing pretty much the same thing. Did you know PA school is, like, even harder to get into?"

"bertstare" by me.

If it was like med school than it wouldn't be PA school. For the record, PA's have a great job, good money, little responsibility. It's a badass way to earn a living. But if I pay to see a doc and I only get to see a PA, I would rage. I just can't stand the little man syndrome many get.

I never claimed that a PA has the same autonomy as a doctor.

To your quote though- PAs do cover a good part of a medical curriculum minus the first year of med school. We don't go into great depth in biochem and the basic sciences. I literally take about 20% of my curriculum alongside the med students (pharm, PD, some of the systems courses, etc.) The anatomy, physiology, etc. are taught by the same faculty and we have the same lecture objectives. Obviously our program is shorter and there is some serious skimming going on in certain places, but to say that we AREN'T studying the same thing is ridiculous when I'm sitting next to med students in the lecture hall listening to the same presentation for a decent chunk of my program.

The PAs I've shadowed have varied in their roles. Some of the less experienced ones had more contact with their SP, while some of the more experienced ones saw their own patient load and rarely communicated with their SP (ER, FP, and other fields).

I'm not whipping out a napolean syndrome, I know that I will not always have the final say in patient treatment and I will not be performing the most complex procedures, I have shadowed countless PAs and worked with PAs in a clinical setting to know the role and waht Im getting myself into. Thanks for the concern ;)

I think it's equally as important to stick up for my profession and tell you what we are capable of. Ya dig? Also, could you expand on the "little responsiblity?" If a PA ****s up they are just as accountable as an MD would be. PAs can be taken to court and sued over malpractice. It's not like we live in a bubble that all of our errors are magically deflected away.

[rampagefc77]

As I said, it's only like 3 because it's abstracts + papers. Only the competitive med students do this, though. Also, most aren't first author papers - most of the papers have like 5+ authors, too.

Right now I've got 4... gonna try for 7 by the time I'm out. :cool:

Right on man, more power to you. If you're a 4th year student that means 3 in the last year? Say hello to caffeine and goodbye to sleep lulz

[TheCurator]

I never claimed that a PA has the same autonomy as a doctor.

To your quote though- PAs do cover a good part of a medical curriculum minus the first year of med school. We don't go into great depth in biochem and the basic sciences. I literally take about 20% of my curriculum alongside the med students (pharm, PD, some of the systems courses, etc.) The anatomy, physiology, etc. are taught by the same faculty and we have the same lecture objectives. Obviously our program is shorter and there is some serious skimming going on in certain places, but to say that we AREN'T studying the same thing is ridiculous when I'm sitting next to med students in the lecture hall listening to the same presentation for a decent chunk of my program.

The PAs I've shadowed have varied in their roles. Some of the less experienced ones had more contact with their SP, while some of the more experienced ones saw their own patient load and rarely communicated with their SP (ER, FP, and other fields).

I'm not whipping out a napolean syndrome, I know that I will not always have the final say in patient treatment and I will not be performing the most complex procedures, I have shadowed countless PAs and worked with PAs in a clinical setting to know the role and waht Im getting myself into. Thanks for the concern ;)

I think it's equally as important to stick up for my profession and tell you what we are capable of. Ya dig? Also, could you expand on the "little responsiblity?" If a PA ****s up they are just as accountable as an MD would be. PAs can be taken to court and sued over malpractice. It's not like we live in a bubble that all of our errors are magically deflected away.

1/5 = a decent chunk??

[crunchymilk]

I never claimed that a PA has the same autonomy as a doctor.

To your quote though- PAs do cover a good part of a medical curriculum minus the first year of med school. We don't go into great depth in biochem and the basic sciences. I literally take about 20% of my curriculum alongside the med students (pharm, PD, some of the systems courses, etc.) The anatomy, physiology, etc. are taught by the same faculty and we have the same lecture objectives. Obviously our program is shorter and there is some serious skimming going on in certain places, but to say that we AREN'T studying the same thing is ridiculous when I'm sitting next to med students in the lecture hall listening to the same presentation for a decent chunk of my program.

The PAs I've shadowed have varied in their roles. Some of the less experienced ones had more contact with their SP, while some of the more experienced ones saw their own patient load and rarely communicated with their SP (ER, FP, and other fields).

I'm not whipping out a napolean syndrome, I know that I will not always have the final say in patient treatment and I will not be performing the most complex procedures, I have shadowed countless PAs and worked with PAs in a clinical setting to know the role and waht Im getting myself into. Thanks for the concern ;)

I think it's equally as important to stick up for my profession and tell you what we are capable of. Ya dig? Also, could you expand on the "little responsiblity?" If a PA ****s up they are just as accountable as an MD would be. PAs can be taken to court and sued over malpractice. It's not like we live in a bubble that all of our errors are magically deflected away.

I certainly don't blame you for sticking up for your profession. Like I said earlier, it's a great job. Number 2 in the country according to this.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestjobs/2009/snapshots/2.html

That link explains what I meant by responsibility, just better.

You seem like a level headed dude, I just can't stand the PAs that have a chip on their shoulder and I run into that type a lot.

[rampagefc77]

I certainly don't blame you for sticking up for your profession. Like I said earlier, it's a great job. Number 2 in the country according to this.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestjobs/2009/snapshots/2.html

That link explains what I meant by responsibility, just better.

You seem like a level headed dude, I just can't stand the PAs that have a chip on their shoulder and I run into that type a lot.

Again, I'm not claiming to be the physician. There are many similarities in our education that I've pointed out, but there are some deficencies which I have also pointed out-- most importantly we do not have a required residency to complete. A new grad PA compared to a new residency trained physician? no comparison. The residency exposes a med student to more than anyone could during day-to-day practice and ensures that they are proficient in certain skills. A PA with 10 years of experience compared to a residency trained physician? The gap has narrowed, because much of what you learn in medicine is "on the job," I've know PAs who have precepted med students, only to have those students come back and be their supervising physician years later...

PAs obviously have limited autonomy in some fields, while it's expanded in others. We are trained as generalists, so a PA in FP, IM, ER will have more autonomy than say a surgical PA who operates as a 1st assist, does consults, and rounds on patients. There will be patients with complex comorbidities that I wont feel comfortable handling solo. Based on the benefits of the profession, I feel that a limited role without complete autonomy is a fair trade.

When I mention that PA school is statistically harder to get into than med school based on the few seats (generaly around 30) and high applications, it's moreso to show that we are not a group of students that just couldn't get into med school so PA seemed like the next best thing, we specifically chose this profession for a reason.

[Purepwnage]

:rolleyes: You're kidding, right? Rads matches are among the most competitive in terms of scores. It's true that malpractice is an issue, but the salary more than compensates for it.

Check out the stats for yourself: http://www.aamc.org/programs/cim/chartingoutcomes.pdf

rads is competitive but theres as many aplicants per position for it as pathology lulz, so ur gona say pathology is competitive for american grads? psych has more aplicants per position for itself than radiology (1.5 vs 1.4 aplicants per position) thus making it harder to get into so your argument invalid since my hair is a bird. (page 3)

pathology and psych only seem "less competitive" to the untrained eye because only IMGs with mediocre scores apply to these residencies, no AMG with 99s is gona apply there lmao

[nicebrah]

Any radiation therapist or physicist brahs here?

Currently doing second year Radiation Therapy.

[jjones11]

I'm not as familiar with PT but my undergrad had a PT program associated with it so a few of my friends went into it. Pre-reqs were similar to pre-med from my understanding- intro bio series, intro chem series, intro physics series, stats -- then classes may vary by school to include some of the following: organic chem, biochem, calc, english, psych, etc. The people I knew that ended up in PT had majors such as: bio, human bio, athletic training, etc.

Best advice- research schools you are interested in and determine what pre-reqs are required. PT is a graduate-level professional degree leading to a doctorate so the workload is intense. Look into becoming a PT aide/assistant to get some practical experience and see if the field is right for you.

I was looking at exercise science as my undergrad major. I read that alot of PT students majored in either kinesiology or exercise science. And then I found a great master's program that is actually very close to home, but I will have to research the pre-req a little more. But I'm just going to take it one step at a time. My brother told me once I finish my undergrad, that I should try and get an internship at a sports team or clinic or something of the sort. I originally looked at PA but I couldn't stand being the bicth of the field, sorry if that's a little blunt, or condescending.

[NeoSeminole]

I originally looked at PA but I couldn't stand being the bicth of the field, sorry if that's a little blunt, or condescending.

not sure if you meant PA school but if so, I can assure you that you're horribly misinformed

[F23]

rads is competitive but theres as many aplicants per position for it as pathology lulz, so ur gona say pathology is competitive for american grads? psych has more aplicants per position for itself than radiology (1.5 vs 1.4 aplicants per position) thus making it harder to get into so your argument invalid since my hair is a bird. (page 3)

pathology and psych only seem "less competitive" to the untrained eye because only IMGs with mediocre scores apply to these residencies, no AMG with 99s is gona apply there lmao

Lol most psych programs don't care about at board scores when choosing applicant. Path is actually somewhat competitive.

The number of applicants per position argument isn't really valid because the applicant pools are completely different. It's like saying that it's harder to get into PA or veterinary school than medical school - true there are fewer slots, but the medical applicants are far more qualified.

Go through medical school, and then you'll agree with me.

[rampagefc77]

I was looking at exercise science as my undergrad major. I read that alot of PT students majored in either kinesiology or exercise science. And then I found a great master's program that is actually very close to home, but I will have to research the pre-req a little more. But I'm just going to take it one step at a time. My brother told me once I finish my undergrad, that I should try and get an internship at a sports team or clinic or something of the sort. I originally looked at PA but I couldn't stand being the bicth of the field, sorry if that's a little blunt, or condescending.

It's all good man. In some positions a PA might function as the "bitch," in which case you quit and find a better situation where you are better utilized. As I mentioned, most PAs I shadowed had a great amount of autonomy and rarely even saw their SP... hardly a "bitch" situation.

PT is a good field, but I personally find it limiting in scope of practice and salary. PT is a grueling program (many friends are in it) but you really dont get to utilize all of your training... its a lot of "do these stretches and these lifts" as opposed to the advanced techniques that you learn. For me that=boring, but I'm sure it depends on your position. As a PA you can go into any specialty and bounce from one to the next if you get bored... as a PT you are stuck if it gets old. Just things to consider if your only reason for avoiding the PA profession was "being someone's bitch"

[Gruntled]

F23, thank God you're doing rads so they can lock you in the closet to rule out pneumothoraces and we (sociable MDs without underlying insecurities) can actually see the patients and interact with humanity. Just dictate your reads with a brown grocery bag over your head in the dark room and do everyone a favor.

You are way too obsessed with research and statistics. I had 1 summer of bull**** fruit fly research on my application and the only thing it taught me was to get an MD and not a PhD. Patients and other doctors want someone who is easy to get along with, honest, and a hard worker more than a snarky egg head who has a few 2nd author titles.

I got a C in organic 2, lol **** that noise. Hell I even got a D in calc my freshman year and had to re-take it. But I have a good personality and good extracurriculars, so I'm pretty much ****ing up your entire theory right now.

Here's your next play: DO or caribbean? Family practice or Peds?

US Allopathic MD, Anesthesiology, R1. We could never hang out, bro.

[jjones11]

It's all good man. In some positions a PA might function as the "bitch," in which case you quit and find a better situation where you are better utilized. As I mentioned, most PAs I shadowed had a great amount of autonomy and rarely even saw their SP... hardly a "bitch" situation.

PT is a good field, but I personally find it limiting in scope of practice and salary. PT is a grueling program (many friends are in it) but you really dont get to utilize all of your training... its a lot of "do these stretches and these lifts" as opposed to the advanced techniques that you learn. For me that=boring, but I'm sure it depends on your position. As a PA you can go into any specialty and bounce from one to the next if you get bored... as a PT you are stuck if it gets old. Just things to consider if your only reason for avoiding the PA profession was "being someone's bitch"

Ah, gotcha... How does it compare salary wise?

[F23]

F23, thank God you're doing rads so they can lock you in the closet to rule out pneumothoraces and we (sociable MDs without underlying insecurities) can actually see the patients and interact with humanity. Just dictate your reads with a brown grocery bag over your head in the dark room and do everyone a favor.

You are way too obsessed with research and statistics. I had 1 summer of bull**** fruit fly research on my application and the only thing it taught me was to get an MD and not a PhD. Patients and other doctors want someone who is easy to get along with, honest, and a hard worker more than a snarky egg head who has a few 2nd author titles.

I got a C in organic 2, lol **** that noise. Hell I even got a D in calc my freshman year and had to re-take it. But I have a good personality and good extracurriculars, so I'm pretty much ****ing up your entire theory right now.

Here's your next play: DO or caribbean? Family practice or Peds?

US Allopathic MD, Anesthesiology, R1. We could never hang out, bro.

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/30403/original/YouMad.jpg?1260647699

Did you really need to make a new account to post this?

Also, I didn't say anything about a few bad grades messing with your chances... don't really know where you got that. I got a C in my first bio class, BTW.

And as for research, yes you can get along without it. You'll have more difficulty getting into medical school, and residency/fellowship programs, but whatever.

This is almost like those threads when people who didn't go to college get mad and say "Look at Bill Gates! He didn't go to college!!1" I'm posting this stuff because I see so many qualified premeds get rejected - it's a competitive process and anything you can do to boost your resume helps.

[rampagefc77]

Ah, gotcha... How does it compare salary wise?

I'm only going on what my friends in the field have told me, but they said after graduation they were hoping for 55-60K and the higher salary ranges I hear are in the 70s. (might be regional, not sure). The national average for a new grad PA last year was around 80K, but it varies by location and field. If you enter EM, CV surgery, IR, etc. you can start in the 6 figures (the highest I know personally was in IR and she started at 130K). The highest ive ever heard for a PA was in the mid 200s, but that is EXTREMELY rare. PAs generally top out in the 150K range (based on productivity bonuses, field of practice, etc.) A primary care PA might top 100K if they are lucky considering the salary of their MD counterparts, whereas specialty PAs can make considerably more. The national average for PAs last year was in the upper 90s I believe.

In the end it's about doing something you enjoy, not the salary.

[moosecakes4all]

F23, thank God you're doing rads so they can lock you in the closet to rule out pneumothoraces and we (sociable MDs without underlying insecurities) can actually see the patients and interact with humanity. Just dictate your reads with a brown grocery bag over your head in the dark room and do everyone a favor.

You are way too obsessed with research and statistics. I had 1 summer of bull**** fruit fly research on my application and the only thing it taught me was to get an MD and not a PhD. Patients and other doctors want someone who is easy to get along with, honest, and a hard worker more than a snarky egg head who has a few 2nd author titles.

I got a C in organic 2, lol **** that noise. Hell I even got a D in calc my freshman year and had to re-take it. But I have a good personality and good extracurriculars, so I'm pretty much ****ing up your entire theory right now.

Here's your next play: DO or caribbean? Family practice or Peds?

US Allopathic MD, Anesthesiology, R1. We could never hang out, bro.
Calmdownbro.jpeg

The **** is wrong with him trying to get us premeds prepared in the best way possible for med school? I'd rather be an over prepared and very competitive applicant than not.

[B.O.L.A.]

Are you at an US allopathic school? If not, that could explain it.

Are you an underrepresented minority, i.e. black, latino, native american, or pacific islander? If so, that could explain it.

I mean, it's possible to get in without some key criteria, but it's far more difficult. It's pretty amazing that you were accepted IMO unless you had other activities/qualifications that made up for it.

Haha, just wow. Please don't pretend to know a thing about me. Yes, it's US allo, and yes, I am white upper middle class. Having "activities and qualifications that make up for it," is the entire point of what I'm saying. The only certainty is that there is no certainty, so it's just not worth the time trying to formulate the perfect stats or the perfect research or letters of recommendation. The only people who need to do that are the ones trying to fake it.


F23, thank God you're doing rads so they can lock you in the closet to rule out pneumothoraces and we (sociable MDs without underlying insecurities) can actually see the patients and interact with humanity. Just dictate your reads with a brown grocery bag over your head in the dark room and do everyone a favor.

You are way too obsessed with research and statistics. I had 1 summer of bull**** fruit fly research on my application and the only thing it taught me was to get an MD and not a PhD. Patients and other doctors want someone who is easy to get along with, honest, and a hard worker more than a snarky egg head who has a few 2nd author titles.

I got a C in organic 2, lol **** that noise. Hell I even got a D in calc my freshman year and had to re-take it. But I have a good personality and good extracurriculars, so I'm pretty much ****ing up your entire theory right now.

Here's your next play: DO or caribbean? Family practice or Peds?

US Allopathic MD, Anesthesiology, R1. We could never hang out, bro.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2liadg0.gif

[B.O.L.A.]

The **** is wrong with him trying to get us premeds prepared in the best way possible for med school?

Well, that's kind of the problem with advice as a pre-med. General advice is helpful initially, but when it gets specific it becomes more hit-or-miss because of individual differences. Also, people tend to advise what is "safe" not always what is best. No one will tell you to take risks, which might be necessary to maximize your potential as a unique individual. That could be a decisive factor.

Example- at the end of my senior year my pre-med advisor was insistent that I apply that summer, concurrent with taking the MCAT. I couldn't articulate to her exactly why I needed to wait, I just knew. So, against her advice, I took the time off, studied hard and took the MCAT, and worked full-time in the hospital. Being in limbo outside school sucked, studying non-stop for 3 months alone sucked, waiting for the application cycle to finally start while my friends were finishing interviews sucked. But in the end, taking this sort of "road less traveled" made a huge difference, for me. The intangibles imbued by two years of experience in the hospital were very striking to anyone reading my essays or conducting my interviews. I got in everywhere I interviewed. I am at my #1 choice now. All this because, essentially, I had disregarded sound advice from a knowledgeable source.

Does that mean disregard all advice as bullsh*t? No. It means choosing a career as daunting as medicine is an inherently personal decision, and you should understand above all, yourself, and take advice with that in mind. "Does this fit who I am ?"

So when I hear people give rigid guidelines for such a personal journey, especially from highly regarded sources like med students, I cringe thinking about the people for whom that advice is not applicable, but who will now attempt to follow it nevertheless. There are plenty of these conformists out there, mindlessly working sh*tty volunteer jobs they don't care about, doing research they find boring, shadowing doctors just for the LOR, basically just going through the motions and wasting the best years of their lives because it will help them "get into med school." It makes me sick to think about.

[MissJuly]

^^Good advice. Not to mention, you'll be a better student and gain a lot more from school with a little life experience.

[908]

ahhh yess a pre-med thread. Thought about starting one of these on the misc but figured it wouldn't turn out too well. Just took AAMC 7.. first time hitting double digits on both PS and BS.. still sucking balls on Verbal though. Anybody else taking/take the MCAT this summer?

[moosecakes4all]

Well, that's kind of the problem with advice as a pre-med. General advice is helpful initially, but when it gets specific it becomes more hit-or-miss because of individual differences. Also, people tend to advise what is "safe" not always what is best. No one will tell you to take risks, which might be necessary to maximize your potential as a unique individual. That could be a decisive factor.

Example- at the end of my senior year my pre-med advisor was insistent that I apply that summer, concurrent with taking the MCAT. I couldn't articulate to her exactly why I needed to wait, I just knew. So, against her advice, I took the time off, studied hard and took the MCAT, and worked full-time in the hospital. Being in limbo outside school sucked, studying non-stop for 3 months alone sucked, waiting for the application cycle to finally start while my friends were finishing interviews sucked. But in the end, taking this sort of "road less traveled" made a huge difference, for me. The intangibles imbued by two years of experience in the hospital were very striking to anyone reading my essays or conducting my interviews. I got in everywhere I interviewed. I am at my #1 choice now. All this because, essentially, I had disregarded sound advice from a knowledgeable source.

Does that mean disregard all advice as bullsh*t? No. It means choosing a career as daunting as medicine is an inherently personal decision, and you should understand above all, yourself, and take advice with that in mind. "Does this fit who I am ?"

So when I hear people give rigid guidelines for such a personal journey, especially from highly regarded sources like med students, I cringe thinking about the people for whom that advice is not applicable, but who will now attempt to follow it nevertheless. There are plenty of these conformists out there, mindlessly working sh*tty volunteer jobs they don't care about, doing research they find boring, shadowing doctors just for the LOR, basically just going through the motions and wasting the best years of their lives because it will help them "get into med school." It makes me sick to think about.
Thanks for that, certainly a fresh perspective for me!
Right now all the stuff I'm doing (volunteer, shadowing, all my EC's and research) are VERY interesting to me. I'm not a tremendously social person and the party type scene is not for me, I've got a good friend or two that I enjoy relaxing with and that sort of thing. It is sad indeed that people choose app stuffers just to check the box off so to speak.

[everblue]

ahhh yess a pre-med thread. Thought about starting one of these on the misc but figured it wouldn't turn out too well. Just took AAMC 7.. first time hitting double digits on both PS and BS.. still sucking balls on Verbal though. Anybody else taking/take the MCAT this summer?

Took mine 7/29

[908]

Took mine 7/29

Hope you did well man. My next practice score will determine whether I register for the 8/24 or the 9/2 exam.

You applying this year as well or next?

[Purepwnage]

Lol most psych programs don't care about at board scores when choosing applicant. Path is actually somewhat competitive.

The number of applicants per position argument isn't really valid because the applicant pools are completely different. It's like saying that it's harder to get into PA or veterinary school than medical school - true there are fewer slots, but the medical applicants are far more qualified.

Go through medical school, and then you'll agree with me.

all porgrams care about board scores, no one is really gona be taking anyone seriously with multiple re-sits on the steps, unless they really really are hopeless in finding residents, and there are alot of psych/paeds/FP and even i-med places that do take people on with multiple failures, no research, and a ****ty interview, just because they cant find anyone better.

rads is competitive, but its not as competitive as say optho/derma/neuro-surg/plastic or CT surg intergrated, so obviously everyone applying to these will have top notch board scores, and then research + interview is what sets you appart.

another significant factor is knowing people, i mean if my uncle is the neuro surg PD at john hopkins, i'll probably get in with a 79/79 and basically talking about how his dinner was last night at the interview.

im not american, neither am i going to an american medschool (im irish, i'll probably do residency there though after i graduate), so i dont know what its like applying to medschools there, but im pretty sure logic prevails, and not every single medschool cares about how big of an egg head you are.

[F23]

all porgrams care about board scores, no one is really gona be taking anyone seriously with multiple re-sits on the steps, unless they really really are hopeless in finding residents, and there are alot of psych/paeds/FP and even i-med places that do take people on with multiple failures, no research, and a ****ty interview, just because they cant find anyone better.

rads is competitive, but its not as competitive as say optho/derma/neuro-surg/plastic or CT surg intergrated, so obviously everyone applying to these will have top notch board scores, and then research + interview is what sets you appart.

another significant factor is knowing people, i mean if my uncle is the neuro surg PD at john hopkins, i'll probably get in with a 79/79 and basically talking about how his dinner was last night at the interview.

im not american, neither am i going to an american medschool (im irish, i'll probably do residency there though after i graduate), so i dont know what its like applying to medschools there, but im pretty sure logic prevails, and not every single medschool cares about how big of an egg head you are.

Pretty much agree with everything you said.

Rads is the least competitive of the most competitive programs, if you know what I mean.

You can't retake the boards in the US unless you fail; you're limited to 2 retakes.

[F23]

Haha, just wow. Please don't pretend to know a thing about me. Yes, it's US allo, and yes, I am white upper middle class. Having "activities and qualifications that make up for it," is the entire point of what I'm saying. The only certainty is that there is no certainty, so it's just not worth the time trying to formulate the perfect stats or the perfect research or letters of recommendation. The only people who need to do that are the ones trying to fake it.


Here's the point of my posts on this thread:

The premeds on here who are asking questions obviously don't know what the adcoms are looking for. So, it's best to give them a picture of the ideal applicant for them to strive for. Are they going to achieve this ideal? Of course not. Nobody is the ideal applicant. Every applicant has strengths and weaknesses.

However, if I go from the top and say "oh, you don't need to worry about getting all A's or doing research," then those premeds wont worry about grades or research, and they'll be a far less qualified applicant. It's best to shoot for the stars, even though you'll never get there.

Also, there are regional differences in the competitiveness of medical school. If you happen to be a resident in a state with a state med school, like, say, University of Mississippi, you'll have no problem getting in with a 3.7 gpa a 28mcat, decent extracurriculars, and no research. If you're a California state resident and apply with those stats, you're going to get flat out rejected from everywhere. So, if any of the premeds in this thread are California residents, I'll tell you from the top you've got it rough.

Also, what do you mean by "faking it?" Are you saying that somehow medical school admissions committees use their psychic powers to figure out who really is the best applicant despite lack of paper documentation to prove it? The way that admissions committees decide on you is what you have on your resume. That's the only way of showing that you're a "real" applicant. You can't just do whatever the hell you want and expect them to know that you're the real deal. Yes, you can be non-conventional (I was a very non-conventional applicant myself - I majored in econ and nearly went into civil engineering - I didn't even decide I was premed until the end of my junior year). And yes, you can pursue your own interests. BUT, you'd better make sure that a good portion of your activities actually apply to medical school. You've gotta satisfy some of their criteria for them to take you seriously.

[pipiwendeyseeme]

Guys this may sound dumb but how exactly
do you get involved in a research project?

Is it down within your school or is it something outside of school?

Any orginizations or online tools to help out?

ANY help or insight is appreciated. Im just sick of volunteering (340+ hrs)

[ericbobert]

Hope you did well man. My next practice score will determine whether I register for the 8/24 or the 9/2 exam.

You applying this year as well or next?

WTF? We pretty much have to register when it opens. My friend didn't feel good about his mcat last summer, and registering a little earlier than this, he had to drive 7 hours to write on the last day.

[rampagefc77]

Guys this may sound dumb but how exactly
do you get involved in a research project?

Is it down within your school or is it something outside of school?

Any orginizations or online tools to help out?

ANY help or insight is appreciated. Im just sick of volunteering (340+ hrs)

It varies. My school required a 1.5 year capstone project in order to graduate, where we worked under one of the bio faculty with stuff they were interested in. If your school doesn't offer similar opportunities, you can look into summer REUs at medical colleges and other large universities to gain research experience (usually paid which is a plus). Or if you are a strong student you can approach professors and state your interest... professors are almost always working on some form of research, and if you are a worthy candidate they might let you help out, or at least point you in the right direction.

As I've said before, consider a job as an EMT or a CNA to gain some practical experience as well. You can develop some basic skills, learn how to interact with patients and families, and learn many of the issues that arise in a hospital setting.

[908]

Guys this may sound dumb but how exactly
do you get involved in a research project?

Is it down within your school or is it something outside of school?

Any orginizations or online tools to help out?

ANY help or insight is appreciated. Im just sick of volunteering (340+ hrs)

Keep your ears open at your school. My school has Research Mixers where Professors come and speak about their research and then after all the speeches are given the students can speak with them in order to get on board if they like what they heard. If your school doesn't have something like this, you can just look through the different department websites and read the Professor information and see what type of research each is doing. When you find some that are interested, contact the professors and introduce yourself as a student looking to get involved in research and explain why the research that the specific professor is doing appeals to you.


WTF? We pretty much have to register when it opens. My friend didn't feel good about his mcat last summer, and registering a little earlier than this, he had to drive 7 hours to write on the last day.

Not really, depends on your location. Yes, it is very likely that if you wait until the regular registration close date your preferred choice won't be there but it depends on where you are that determines how far you'll have to drive. Luckily, I'm in NJ. My preferred location is in Clark which is booked up until September 2nd, which is my likely test date unless I average 35s on my next 3 exams. If I do, then there are plenty of testing centers in New York for me to go to. I know my way around and go to NY often so it isn't an issue for me.

[J.G]

I would imagine they do background checks in during admission to med/dental/pharm schools to eliminate those with felonies or even numerous DUIs or substance abuse--if one had a clean record (no DUIs, misdemeanors or anything), but was hospitalized at one point for an attempted overdose, would this greatly affect chances of admission or would it even show up on a background check?

[moosecakes4all]

Im not sure at all, but at any rate be prepared to have an answer for it. Even if it was brought up as long as you could give a legitimate and honest response they should be able to see past it.

[wildphucker]

I would imagine they do background checks in during admission to med/dental/pharm schools to eliminate those with felonies or even numerous DUIs or substance abuse--if one had a clean record (no DUIs, misdemeanors or anything), but was hospitalized at one point for an attempted overdose, would this greatly affect chances of admission or would it even show up on a background check?

did that have to go to court?


It can only show up on a criminal record check if it went to court and you were found guilty of something.


Things like fines for tickets, registration arent included because whilst they are handed out by police, you arent convicted of a criminal offence and the only records kept are those of the states debt recovery office, which isnt involved in criminal chceks.





how do you guys prepare for the written portion of the mcat etc? Where you need to write an essay. You can practise with various questions but theres no way youll know what question theyll expct you to respond to with an essay, it could be anything. How to prepare? All the ones ive looked at seem to be philosophical in nature so im gonna go on that assumption.

[moosecakes4all]

All the essay practice questions I have seen are pretty much broad enough that any college student could at the very least BS their way through it. I would find it HIGHLY improbable that they would toss an extremely obscure topic out there and then expect you to know what they are talking about.

[wildphucker]

but bsing your way through the written essay wouldnt get you very good marks.....youd have to have something in mind to write about

[moosecakes4all]

but bsing your way through the written essay wouldnt get you very good marks.....youd have to have something in mind to write about

Let me put it this way- they will give you a question that any college student and prospective medical student will have an opinion on and will be able to answer.

[ericbobert]

Let me put it this way- they will give you a question that anyone will be able to answer.

I think this modification makes it more accurate. You don't even need to have an opinion, and knowledge of the topic will be almost universal. You are pretty much just showing that you can think about the topic and write it down with proper english, organization and flow.

I haven't written a T essay, so I may be going too far in writing the following, although it shouldn't matter if you don't need a T. Your answer in some ways will be BS and in other ways it won't be. It is pretty much impossible to BS the answer, as in writing about something you have no clue about, as you definitely will know the subject. You will have to BS somewhat for length though, at least while you practice and until you get good at it. Have you ever written an essay that you left to the last moment, and then quickly put together? You sacrifice quality for quantity right? You may expand on an argument to make it longer, when if you had more time you would worry about making it stronger. On the mcat you start with 30 minutes so it is pretty similar. The topics and especially the time don't really allow for quality. The topics are also pretty bland, so it doesn't really help with length. You just have to pretend the topic is important, and construct an essay around it. It is really easy to get writer's block, if you try to say something profound, when the topic is so simple.

It is late and I know I am kind of rambling, so I thought I should bring in some random analogy. If you watch the show "How I Met Your Mother," you know about Robin's job as the anchor/reporter of some ****ty news cast. The stuff she covers is all stupid fluff. She wants to get a better job so she is trying to do a good job. She doesn't try to ask the hard hitting questions about chickens hatching, she just tries to form the coverage of the BS topic into something that resembles a legit newscast.

It is good prep to just write essays about nothing. My friends claim that length has a strong correlation to your score. It is hard to improve your language skills, and they probably will not disappear on exam day. The difference being in the zone, and an essay where you are just off, is going to be length. If you can build up any topic into an essay, then you will be able to write one on game day no matter what they throw at you.



For your "boys deserve fudge" essay, I probably would start off with a sentence with broad social applicability, then apply it to the given situation, like this:

Within the context of modern society, we are all confined within an ever-changing set of rights and responsibilities dictated by our parents, peers and employers. Oftentimes, only when we satisfy our responsibilities do we deserve our rights - a common example is being paid only after finishing our work; this can be in a business context where we receive a salary, or at home where we receive an allowance after finishing our chores. This concept of deserving only upon socially good behavior can be applied easily to the present problem, where a boy would only deserve fudge if he, for example, gets a good grade on his report card or finishes mowing the lawn. Only by fulfilling his responsibilities at home does the boy rightly deserve fudge, and his parents would be in the wrong if they gave him fudge without this standard of behavior being reached.

On the other hand, society also has a way of punishing those who do not fulfill their responsibilities. An employee who does not show up for work can expect to be fired; a child who does poorly in school will be subject to verbal abuse by his or her parents. If the boy in the present context does not receive an A, or does not mow the lawn when he is supposed to, then he obviously will not deserve fudge. Even in light of past good behavior, present bad behavior justifies his parents' decision against fudge.

Ultimately, the question of whether the boy is deserving of fudge can be answered only be ascertaining whether he has fulfilled his requisite responsibilities. The boy's situation parallels the reward system established in society today, in which we can only expect to receive a reward if we have accomplished the necessary tasks leading to it. If the boy is given fudge without doing said tasks, then it will set a precedent for bad behavior that undermines his ability to fit into the world we live in.


It probably doesn't matter all that much anyways, I just happen to be highly exposed to the school that puts the most importance on the essay.

[F23]

Guys, don't worry about the writing section. Med school adcoms don't care about it unless you do horribly.

It's all about the numeric score.

[908]

I've the essay doesn't carry as much weight but you still need to be hitting at least an O on the section. They can also see the essay so it's used if they need another factor to base your application on. I think it's obvious though that some one who gets a 35 but gets a K on the writing sample doesn't deserve admittance.

[MontelWilliams]

I've the essay doesn't carry as much weight but you still need to be hitting at least an O on the section. They can also see the essay so it's used if they need another factor to base your application on. I think it's obvious though that some one who gets a 35 but gets a K on the writing sample doesn't deserve admittance.

I scored an N on writing and got accepted...was never asked about it at any interview

[908]

I scored an N on writing and got accepted...was never asked about it at any interview

Just what I read.. N isn't far off on the spectrum from what we should aim for though. I guess a better statement for someone to make would be that a mediocre essay score is fine as long as you do well on the sciences/verbal portion of the test, but taking a nap, writing random crap, or just completely sucking during the verbal will adversely effect you.
That being said, I do remember attending a lecture by a physician that sat on RWJ adcom and he said he doesn't care about the essay.. not sure if that was the general view of everyone on the board.. He was also way more laid back then anyone else I've ever heard that was on the adcom and said he doesn't even ask the question "Why do you want to be a physician?"

[J.G]

Im not sure at all, but at any rate be prepared to have an answer for it. Even if it was brought up as long as you could give a legitimate and honest response they should be able to see past it.


did that have to go to court?


It can only show up on a criminal record check if it went to court and you were found guilty of something.


Things like fines for tickets, registration arent included because whilst they are handed out by police, you arent convicted of a criminal offence and the only records kept are those of the states debt recovery office, which isnt involved in criminal chceks.

Yeah, luckily no court or anything. Thank you two for your responses.

[rampagefc77]

This thread kinda died off as of late.

Another piece of advice that I'd give to pre-med students is to take pharmacology in undergrad if it is offered. If not, buy some flashcards and start memorizing. To date it is probably the toughest class I've encountered just because of the quantity of drugs.. each sounding the same but having slightly different functions gets old quick. Preparing ahead of time will help you in med school, and also for your step I's and beyond.

[IceyVeins]

ill bump this thread for OP since he has his 5th straight semester of 4.0 gpa ;)

[BlackNYellow]

Bump this thread. Currently junior, majoring in Microbiology and am Pre med

[moosecakes4all]

ill bump this thread for OP since he has his 5th straight semester of 4.0 gpa ;)
I'm graduated now, kept my 4.0 the whole way through! Yay me lol.