Optimal Natural Potential

[FlT4Ever]

..Just out of curiosity, how big can one possibly get naturally? I mean this respectfully and seriously?? I'm not talking about simply passing some urine tests cause everyone knows you can take some stuff up to 1 week away from a show and pass it...I'm talking truly year after year after year of being natural.

Let's take an average frame of 5'10 in height at 7% bf that's been training for 7 or 8 years no older than 30. At those stats, his arms could be up to? He could bench up to? His weight should be up to?

I have 17 years of experience and I have my own thoughts on it but I want to see if my level of realisticity is off.

Thank you

[jjvaughan]

I have a 22 year old friend who I have known for about 10 years. He is a natural genetic freak. I believe he is 5'11 and is 100% natural aside from whey protein, creatine, and NO2 supplements. At 10% bodyfat, his arms measured just shy of 19 inches, his quads were right around 30 inches, he has a barrel chest and a 32 inch waist. He also benches over 400lbs and squats over 700lbs. At the peak of his strength, he was weighing just over 260lbs, but was starting to lose the definition in his mid section so he cut back down to about 245lbs in the offseason. This kid is just a corn-fed monster with great genetics. I'm sure there are people who are bigger than he is, naturally, but he is a testiment to the size you can get with the right genetics and training mentality even without performance enhancing substances.

If he ever decides to switch over to non-natural competitions, watch out!!!

[FlT4Ever]

Wow, an answer...Thank you.

[zroush]

Try this website ironmagazine.com/article247

[FlT4Ever]

Besides from a few facts, I know there’s a lot variable to keep track of for the question I asked. I wasn’t sure I would even get answers on this post which is why I never bumped it. I know I never saw any guys weighing more than 200lbs in a natural tested show but that’s only what I saw. Excuse me, I did sometimes but they didn’t win if you get what I mean.

If a guy eats the right things at the right times, sleeps his 8 to 9 hours of sleep at the same time every night and drinks the right amount of fluids, does a well balanced training, takes the right supplements, rests the right amount, heck does everything the possible allows with an incomparable determination and maintains it over years and only has an average genetic, does it count for zero? He should still be up there somewhere no? Can the difference between a true meso and an ecto really be 40lbs+ if the ecto does all that?

And then I’ve seen those who over measures everything except their fat and we never see them. I can’t help but break a little smile when I talk to them. They can certainly talk the talk, you know you’ve seen them right? They train with big shirts and do half reps with X plates but other than that we have to rely on them saying they have 20inch arms and a 30inch waist. In all fairness It can be true I guess but again I never seen them on stage…especially not on a tested one. I could say to everyone I have 19inch arms and people would easily believe it....not true though :( hehehe.

Can the original question be answered, I'm not sure. Nice attempt with the article though, probly gonna be the best answer on this post.

Thanks

[cwhutson]

I think I will hit the stage sometime next year natural for life at 250 or more. I have a ton of muscle mass in my quads, tri's and shoulders with a 38" waist at 310 pounds right now. I was once measured at 14% bodyfat at 285 pounds. I have been fighting some insulin issues with diabetes for several years but I have that under control can't wait to see how much muscle I actually have once all this fat is gone!!!!

Wade

[bwelch1985]

I think I will hit the stage sometime next year natural for life at 250 or more. I have a ton of muscle mass in my quads, tri's and shoulders with a 38" waist at 310 pounds right now. I was once measured at 14% bodyfat at 285 pounds. I have been fighting some insulin issues with diabetes for several years but I have that under control can't wait to see how much muscle I actually have once all this fat is gone!!!!

Wade

I'm sure you'll do great once you get the conditioning down, but don't be dissapointed when you come in significantly lighter than 250lbs. In all likelihood, you'll be closer to 200lbs as that is where most of the absolute biggest naturals on the planet fall.

As far as the original question....well, it all depends. Maybe you could be a natural champion w/ 20 inch arms or maybe you could struggle to ever win a natural amateur show. There's no formula for determining how big, strong, or aesthetic a person can be. All you can do is train your ass off and do your best to live an "optimal" lifestyle for muscle growth. Genetics will determine the rest.

For the OP, at your age and w/ 17 years of training I would guess that you are quite close to your natural potential. Of course things can still be improved, but those improvements will likely be marginal. If you are still unsatisfied w/ your physique after 17 years of natural bodybuilding I would personally consider using a PED...but that's just me...I fully understand that many people have a moral aversion to that route.

[FlT4Ever]

I think I will hit the stage sometime next year natural for life at 250 or more. I have a ton of muscle mass in my quads, tri's and shoulders with a 38" waist at 310 pounds right now. I was once measured at 14% bodyfat at 285 pounds. I have been fighting some insulin issues with diabetes for several years but I have that under control can't wait to see how much muscle I actually have once all this fat is gone!!!!

Wade

I would repeat what bwelch1985 said about that.

As for genetics determining the rest, that will remain a simple cliché to my ears. It sounds too much like an excuse, especially when looking at those same dudes when they were in high school, looking like twits...and also from looking at their fathers which shows nothing special. Maybe not the case for all, but most.

[bwelch1985]

I would repeat what bwelch1985 said about that.

As for genetics determining the rest, that will remain a simple cliché to my ears. It sounds too much like an excuse, especially when looking at those same dudes when they were in high school, looking like twits...and also from looking at their fathers which shows nothing special. Maybe not the case for all, but most.

well then what else?? if you're training optimally then wtf else can a natural do? given hard work and a near optimal environment for growth, genetics will simply be the determining factor in a natural bodybuilders potential...i don't understand what you don't like or agree w/ about that statement.

[cwhutson]

If I get down to 200 pounds I will be shocked and probaly single cause my wife says I am just fine how i am at 310. haha she likes the big guys!! I can't wait to find out. I will say this if i get to 200 pounds you will know my name cause I will be FREAKING HUGE! I hope anyways!! Looking at it mathmatically most estimates have me around 25% fat at this time so I should be around the 240's once under 5% but I need to get a more reliable bodyfat test done for sure.

Wade

[CleanDean]

..Just out of curiosity, how big can one possibly get naturally? I mean this respectfully and seriously?? I'm not talking about simply passing some urine tests cause everyone knows you can take some stuff up to 1 week away from a show and pass it...I'm talking truly year after year after year of being natural.

Let's take an average frame of 5'10 in height at 7% bf that's been training for 7 or 8 years no older than 30. At those stats, his arms could be up to? He could bench up to? His weight should be up to?

I have 17 years of experience and I have my own thoughts on it but I want to see if my level of realisticity is off.

Thank you

Here is your answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERqBbuVbYZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrgXxUNxPzc


Obviously both Daniels and Miller have outrageous genetics, but it shows what you can do if you give 100% effort to the sport. Check out Miller's website and you will see the progress he has made from contest to contest over the years. I am sure that both of these champions have training and nutritional regiments that 99% of the population would not be able to handle.

[FlT4Ever]

Well, I see all those as good answers and I can't really disagree, maybe just debate a little. When someone asks me how I do it, I tell them, that’s 17 years and I pretty much don’t have a life. I’m sure if they’d shadow me for a week they’d pick up a whole lot. Vice versa, if I see a guy bigger than me but has been training half the amount of time I have, it simply means he knows and applies something I don’t, and if I’d shadow him for a week, I’d learn something. But if he tells me its just better genetics, that’s almost an insult…to me, you might buy it but I don’t.

Look at it this way...Should we compare a natural Pro bodybuilder today to any top natural guys of 30 years ago? No, why? Because of science, not genetics. If we did, it would mean we’re mutating and not involving and I think any anthropogenesis would say the same. Back to the comparison though, I think it would be a better one if it was to Arnold.

Anyway, I don’t mean to offend anyone here, I’m just listing simple facts as I see them and was just curious on that matter. To me, throwing the genetic reason in a wanabe’s face is the equivalent of telling him you’re never gonna cut it, go home. …Poor dude :(

[rich55]

Well, I see all those as good answers and I can't really disagree, maybe just debate a little. When someone asks me how I do it, I tell them, that’s 17 years and I pretty much don’t have a life. I’m sure if they’d shadow me for a week they’d pick up a whole lot. Vice versa, if I see a guy bigger than me but has been training half the amount of time I have, it simply means he knows and applies something I don’t, and if I’d shadow him for a week, I’d learn something. But if he tells me its just better genetics, that’s almost an insult…to me, you might buy it but I don’t.

Look at it this way...Should we compare a natural Pro bodybuilder today to any top natural guys of 30 years ago? No, why? Because of science, not genetics. If we did, it would mean we’re mutating and not involving and I think any anthropogenesis would say the same. Back to the comparison though, I think it would be a better one if it was to Arnold.

Anyway, I don’t mean to offend anyone here, I’m just listing simple facts as I see them and was just curious on that matter. To me, throwing the genetic reason in a wanabe’s face is the equivalent of telling him you’re never gonna cut it, go home. …Poor dude :(

Sky is the limit these days as mentioned with Martin Daniels, Doug Miller, Francisco Monteleagre. I've seen natural bodybuilding pro bodybuilding grow leaps in bounds these past 5 years.

Genetics are a HUGE part of bodybuilding. That's all I do for work is play with people's genetics from average joe, to out of shape, to top amateurs and pros. Not everyone responds the same to the same stimulus. I see some respond in months what it takes years others to do and the biggest difference is genetics to a large degree (I'm talking competitors now). All we can do is do our very best and chase those in front of us. The bar can always be raised.

You can't compare today to yesterday as yesterday very few people actually did bodybuilding. With natural bodybuilding more people today actually compete, because you can enjoy life, not sacrifice everything and still do very well on stage with discipline and hard work.

[FlT4Ever]

Facts, good ones I might add and I see it too for the guys I train. Though, some of these guys (that have it better and faster), we can find pics of them, or for the ones I know, I remember they were skin and bones in High School and their families reflect nothing special in relation. Could be they're the first of their generation I guess.

[Quelly]

If I get down to 200 pounds I will be shocked and probaly single cause my wife says I am just fine how i am at 310. haha she likes the big guys!! I can't wait to find out. I will say this if i get to 200 pounds you will know my name cause I will be FREAKING HUGE! I hope anyways!! Looking at it mathmatically most estimates have me around 25% fat at this time so I should be around the 240's once under 5% but I need to get a more reliable bodyfat test done for sure.

Wade

well I'll tell you this wade, bodyfat estimations are VERY innacurate especially when dealing with people who are pretty overweight....

and I'll also tell you this, the biggest natural bodybuilders of all time at 6 foot have been 210 tops at 5% bodyfat. If you are 30lbs heavier than that on stage at 5% bodyfat I will personally write you a check for the total amount in my savings account.

Now that being said, I fully encourage you to get shredded and get on stage, even if you are 190-210lbs you will look AMAZING at 6 foot. I am 6 foot, and I am not a big guy bone structure wise and I haven't been in the gym for 20 years like the original poster, but shredded I compete close to 180. Just FYI.

[iLoLd]

well u look like youve been in the game for a long long time^