Low BF levels: low leptin levels lead to binge/weight rebound?

[zk90210]

So after about more than 5+ months of cutting, in April I was standing at 9% BF to about 9.5% (was losing weight from 1-1.5lb a week) and was getting more tired, had reasonably low levels of energy during workouts even with mod carb intake and .5g/lb fat intake and 1g protein per lbm...it came to a point that I may have hit my genetic bf setpoint which led me to several crazy ALL OUT binges of mostly my bod craving simple sugars...so i ate a ton of ice cream, cakes, doughnuts, nutella, and more ice cream and cereals...and this resulted in weight gain...could this be due to the fact that I was not refeeding at low bf levels in order to moderate leptin levels? Low BF levels are tough to maintain since the body likes to spare and hold on to fat.

I am back to dieting again to lose the fat and weight I gained from binges to get to my target cutting bodyweight at 8%...next time I hit my bf setpoint again hinging toward binge attack, would REFEEDING to raise leptin twice a week prevent my body from going into all out binges? should i be also taking supplements like man scorch to supress cravings/appetite to prevent binges? any insight would be very appreciated...

[Insight]

the term "bf setpoint" usually refers to the bodyfat point where your body "naturally" hangs around if you do everything ad libitum - e.g. not count your calories. i'm not entirely that well read on the concept but i have my doubts about how much the concept applies to people who are training.

martin berkhan has an article at leangains.com describing exactly what you just said - he went all the way down to 5.5% bodyfat basically doing what you're saying. he said the first few times he tried, he wouldn't refeed during the diet, then binge like mad when the diet was over. he said the last time though, he made the scale move down SLOWLY (0.5 lbs lost a week), and he had a modest and controlled refeed on training days (probably at maintenance). So that probably means like 500 cals deficit on off days, maintenance on training days (or 1000 cals deficit on off days, 500 cal surplus on training days, etc).

either way, whatever he did, he ended up at 5.5% and has stayed there ever since. he said he barely felt like he was dieting, and thus didn't have any trouble transitioning into maintenance.

he also says that he doesn't have any of the usual signs of people who have dieted down to the very lean range - e.g. anhedonia, hunger, feeling sick, etc.

[zk90210]

the term "bf setpoint" usually refers to the bodyfat point where your body "naturally" hangs around if you do everything ad libitum - e.g. not count your calories. i'm not entirely that well read on the concept but i have my doubts about how much the concept applies to people who are training.

martin berkhan has an article at leangains.com describing exactly what you just said - he went all the way down to 5.5% bodyfat basically doing what you're saying. he said the first few times he tried, he wouldn't refeed during the diet, then binge like mad when the diet was over. he said the last time though, he made the scale move down SLOWLY (0.5 lbs lost a week), and he had a modest and controlled refeed on training days (probably at maintenance). So that probably means like 500 cals deficit on off days, maintenance on training days (or 1000 cals deficit on off days, 500 cal surplus on training days, etc).

either way, whatever he did, he ended up at 5.5% and has stayed there ever since. he said he barely felt like he was dieting, and thus didn't have any trouble transitioning into maintenance.

he also says that he doesn't have any of the usual signs of people who have dieted down to the very lean range - e.g. anhedonia, hunger, feeling sick, etc.

I got it and read his article...makes sense but does this mean those 3 controlled/planned refeeds on those three trainings days, his diet consisted mostly of carbs, less than 50g of fat (with added fish oil for insulin resistance) and 1g of protein per lbm?

[AbAbber2k]

I recently cut down to 9%... and got stuck. I'm not going to continue cutting, but in my journey to move the scale back up, I've found that I seem to be staying pretty lean by essentially binge eating post workout and under-eating on off days up until my next workout.

Post-binge I tend to look softer, but on the last day leading up to my next workout I look leaner, plus the scale is up.

If I were to cut again I would probably do something similar, albeit limiting my binges.

Edit: I like this method because I DON'T feel the need to count calories in order to achieve the desired results.

[Insight]

I got it and read his article...makes sense but does this mean those 3 controlled/planned refeeds on those three trainings days, his diet consisted mostly of carbs, less than 50g of fat (with added fish oil for insulin resistance) and 1g of protein per lbm?

not sure. he didn't give exact details. i would imagine he kept carbs higher and fat lower in general, but i'm not sure what the exact macro breakdown is. we'll have to wait for his book to find out.


I recently cut down to 9%... and got stuck. I'm not going to continue cutting, but in my journey to move the scale back up, I've found that I seem to be staying pretty lean by essentially binge eating post workout and under-eating on off days up until my next workout.

Post-binge I tend to look softer, but on the last day leading up to my next workout I look leaner, plus the scale is up.

If I were to cut again I would probably do something similar, albeit limiting my binges.

Edit: I like this method because I DON'T feel the need to count calories in order to achieve the desired results.

voila, calorie cycling. this is one of the components of martin's "lean gains" approach.

[wobemaster]

I got it and read his article...makes sense but does this mean those 3 controlled/planned refeeds on those three trainings days, his diet consisted mostly of carbs, less than 50g of fat (with added fish oil for insulin resistance) and 1g of protein per lbm?

he would've had more than that:
http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/03/maintaining-low-body-fat.html

You'll often hear that 1 g protein/lb body weight is a good guideline for muscle gain. That's true. Studies show no additional benefit in going higher than that, assuming adequate calorie intake. But protein has other important qualities. I put great emphasis on it in every diet I design and believe it needs to be kept higher than the generic guidelines.

so it'd probably be 1.5g+ protein/lbm, low fat, the rest carbs on training days

[RobocopIsBack]

Calorie cycling has been here way before Martin.

[Insight]

an octopus has eight legs

[abood-uae]

leaner people need more refeeds every 3 days is optimal exp. 3 days 200 g carbs 1 day 350 g c also to increase lipase hormone which is the mother of fat burning hormones

[itsaburgerrun]

how about instead of eating higher carbs for a few days,you give yourself a cheating window.for example a 2 or 3 hour window weekly to still cravings / boost leptin ?

[Emma-Leigh]

leaner people need more refeeds every 3 days is optimal exp. 3 days 200 g carbs 1 day 350 g c also to increase lipase hormone which is the mother of fat burning hormones
Ermm.... few things:
1. you realise LIPASE is an enzyme, right? It breaks down/ catalyses the breakdown of fats... It is not the same as LEPTIN. ;)
2. nice blanket carb amount. :rolleyes: So you're suggesting a 100# female needs the same amount as a 220# male...?