Re-setting your body's set point?

[DanTheManB]

Bear with me, this may take some explaining. I was thinking this over during one of my walks to the gym (sigh)

So basically if none of us lifted we would all settle at a certain weight (whether obese or just not being that hungry since no intense training is taking place).

Since I've been bodybuilding Weighing under 190 (At this point in my bodybuilding hobby) starts to suck for me. Whereas as a senior in HS and until age 22 my body was perfectly happy between 175-180. I dieted for my first show and got down to 146....last August I was 165...and at 175-180 I am kinda unhappy haha...what causes this? Basically changing your bodyweight set point?

[Barn01]

Bear with me, this may take some explaining. I was thinking this over during one of my walks to the gym (sigh)

So basically if none of us lifted we would all settle at a certain weight (whether obese or just not being that hungry since no intense training is taking place).

Since I've been bodybuilding Weighing under 190 (At this point in my bodybuilding hobby) starts to suck for me. Whereas as a senior in HS and until age 22 my body was perfectly happy between 175-180. I dieted for my first show and got down to 146....last August I was 165...and at 175-180 I am kinda unhappy haha...what causes this? Basically changing your bodyweight set point?

I'm confused ... you're unhappy with your weight or just plain unhappy? What do you think would make you happy right now? Is it weight related or something more you're talking about?

[magrant44]

I'm confused ... you're unhappy with your weight or just plain unhappy? What do you think would make you happy right now? Is it weight related or something more you're talking about?

Barn AKA DR PHIL!!!!

[UCFBuilder]

I would say so...when u were 175-180 before u started lifting..im sure u had way less muscle than u do now so ur BMR was lower...now that u have years of training under your belt..your "new" 175-180 carries a lot more muscle than before making your BMR higher meaning u need more cals to maintain that weight

before i started lifting..i was 200 20% BF..i could easily maintain that and would have had an easier time getting myself heavier..fat is not hard to add for me lol..especially with my appetite...now i have a hard time maintaining 180..simply because when i was 180 before i started dieting 8 weeks ago..my BMR was WAYYYYY higher than it was at 200

i think thats what u were asking..if i was wrong..then shiit lol

[DanTheManB]

I'm confused ... you're unhappy with your weight or just plain unhappy? What do you think would make you happy right now? Is it weight related or something more you're talking about?

Oh no I mean "happy" as content/fed. I feel amazing and everything feels GREAT physically, don't snap on people etc when I go above 190 lbs now.
When I hit 185 and below I start to become more irritable at those weights because that means my bodyfat is now lower....



I would say so...when u were 175-180 before u started lifting..im sure u had way less muscle than u do now so ur BMR was lower...now that u have years of training under your belt..your "new" 175-180 carries a lot more muscle than before making your BMR higher meaning u need more cals to maintain that weight

before i started lifting..i was 200 20% BF..i could easily maintain that and would have had an easier time getting myself heavier..fat is not hard to add for me lol..especially with my appetite...now i have a hard time maintaining 180..simply because when i was 180 before i started dieting 8 weeks ago..my BMR was WAYYYYY higher than it was at 200

i think thats what u were asking..if i was wrong..then shiit lol

Yea basically. If I didn't lift at all I would maintain 160-170lbs. I just wouldn't eat. I'd be mostly ecto and my body seems to maintain pretty well (using myself as the example of course)

Since lifting and eating correctly and getting bigger muscle-wise my NEW set point seems to be 200-210lbs.

I'm also wondering and hoping as a natty if I can now raise it to 220-230lbs offseason

[UCFBuilder]

Oh no I mean "happy" as content/fed. I feel amazing and everything feels GREAT physically, don't snap on people etc when I go above 190 lbs now.
When I hit 185 and below I start to become more irritable at those weights because that means my bodyfat is now lower....




Yea basically. If I didn't lift at all I would maintain 160-170lbs. I just wouldn't eat. I'd be mostly ecto and my body seems to maintain pretty well (using myself as the example of course)

Since lifting and eating correctly and getting bigger muscle-wise my NEW set point seems to be 200-210lbs.

I'm also wondering and hoping as a natty if I can now raise it to 220-230lbs offseason

of course u could raise it to 220-230...u just need the time as far as im concerned..that is if u dont want to add heaps of fat to get there..if u dont mind about the fat u could prolly get there pretty quickly lol

after my shows..im not competing for possibly 5 or more years..i want and need to get bigger and my goal is 220..hopefully around 12% BF..u can do anything as long as u have the time, work ethic and dedication as far as bodybuilding is concerned IMO

[DanTheManB]

of course u could raise it to 220-230...u just need the time as far as im concerned..that is if u dont want to add heaps of fat to get there..if u dont mind about the fat u could prolly get there pretty quickly lol

after my shows..im not competing for possibly 5 or more years..i want and need to get bigger and my goal is 220..hopefully around 12% BF..u can do anything as long as u have the time, work ethic and dedication as far as bodybuilding is concerned IMO

I tend to agree with you. I think I'm going to give it at least a good year. Reason being I'm sure I can get back to an even 200-205lbs (10ish percent MAYBE leaner) after I'm done with this cut....then it will be a lot of hard work and dilligence with my diet to inch my way to 220. If I'm sitting at 215 for a while I will be throwing in fast food 2-3x / week.

[Barn01]

I tend to agree with you. I think I'm going to give it at least a good year. Reason being I'm sure I can get back to an even 200-205lbs (10ish percent MAYBE leaner) after I'm done with this cut....then it will be a lot of hard work and dilligence with my diet to inch my way to 220. If I'm sitting at 215 for a while I will be throwing in fast food 2-3x / week.

Ya man I have a theory on this subject.

We all have a BMI setpoint and our body tries to regulate this daily. Some days we're hot and burning like a fire ... maybe even sweating through the night. Typically those were high cal consumption days. Other days we're cold and maybe shivering, those being lower cal days. Our body has a regulation zone and hence why the avg person that doesn't count cals and eats just whatever typically doesn't gain or lose much over the course of a month or so.

Now people like us that are constantly looking to either gain or lose (change our BMI) we have to force our bodies outside of this setpoint for an extended period of time and eventually we'll start to establish a new setpoint to regulate around.

Like I said this is just my theory on the whole thing but from what I've experienced and read about I think there's some truth to it.

Now as for the happy / sad / moody thing ... dude I get pretty damn edgy sometimes when I start getting under that 8% point. I find it's at it's worst when I'm still in the constant cut phase trying to drive my setpoint down. For instance I'm not trying to cut much more and I'm not as short with people. My cals haven't changed any and my weight is somewhat constant with only slight deficit. The body likes to be fed man and it's happy when it is. Starve it for and extended period of time and it's going to fight back a little. ;) That's when I try to include a little more fats in my diet and a little less carbs. It seems to control my hormones a little better.

[Sporto1633]

Bear with me, this may take some explaining. I was thinking this over during one of my walks to the gym (sigh)

So basically if none of us lifted we would all settle at a certain weight (whether obese or just not being that hungry since no intense training is taking place).

Since I've been bodybuilding Weighing under 190 (At this point in my bodybuilding hobby) starts to suck for me. Whereas as a senior in HS and until age 22 my body was perfectly happy between 175-180. I dieted for my first show and got down to 146....last August I was 165...and at 175-180 I am kinda unhappy haha...what causes this? Basically changing your bodyweight set point?

This has been discussed a lot over on Lyle's board - in theory, you can't change your body's natural genetic setpoint.

The problem is, you are confusing some ideas that don't involve the scientific term "setpoint"

For instance, hunger signalling. There are several things that influence hunger signalling, such as a lack of certain microntrients, and that has nothing to do with your setpoint. If you are deficient in, say, potassium, that influences your hunger signalling - therefore, if you are relying on hunger signalling to eat when you are hungry and stop when you are full, the signal is skewed because of lack of certain nutrition, NOT because of setpoint.

This subject is very complex - but in a nutshell, the scientific "setpoint" (which I distinguish with parenthesis because most people that discuss setpoint, really aren't discussing true setpoint) doesn't change in theory and there isn't sufficient data to support otherwise. That could obviously change with better research and data, but it's just not there yet. You could go over to Lyle's board if you want to read about it - he has a few articles on the subject in a lot of detail.

Sporto

[AustrianOakJr]

^^^ I would assume that you are referring to set point being the minimum bodyfat level that your body is comfortable "setting" at. This is genetically predetermined......where as your bodyweight "set point" (which seems to be what Dan is referring to) can be altered by changing lean body mass or carrying more fat. The body is perfectly happy to go over its set point for bodyfat reserve.

Dan, to answer your question, I think youre getting too hung up on what the scale says as if there is some magical weight that a bodybuilder should be. I wouldnt worry about it. I would just worry about lifting really heavy weights and eating just enough to support proper growth and let the scale worry about itself. To me, going from your normal 190-195 off season weight to 225 off season, would just be from carrying a lot more fat. At this point in the training game, putting on 25-30 lbs of muscle would take years and years and years....if its not impossible.

[DanTheManB]

^^^ I would assume that you are referring to set point being the minimum bodyfat level that your body is comfortable "setting" at. This is genetically predetermined......where as your bodyweight "set point" (which seems to be what Dan is referring to) can be altered by changing lean body mass or carrying more fat. The body is perfectly happy to go over its set point for bodyfat reserve.

Dan, to answer your question, I think youre getting too hung up on what the scale says as if there is some magical weight that a bodybuilder should be. I wouldnt worry about it. I would just worry about lifting really heavy weights and eating just enough to support proper growth and let the scale worry about itself. To me, going from your normal 190-195 off season weight to 225 off season, would just be from carrying a lot more fat. At this point in the training game, putting on 25-30 lbs of muscle would take years and years and years....if its not impossible.

Good point. Basically I can inch it up so to speak to maybe a solid 210. At least in the IMMEDIATE future. And yeah I say all the time who cares about scale weight then get caught up in it myself hahah