Intermittent Fast Carb Cycling Frequency

[CaliKP]

I’ve recently transitioned from UD2 to IF, and I’m looking for the optimal calorie/carb cyclic frequency.
On IF, do you get superior results with a UD2/CKD style week. A depletion workout(s) followed by 2-4 days of low calorie, low carb dieting. Then ending the week with a Carb Refeed?
Or do you get superior results from excess calories, excess carbs on Workout days (i.e Mon, Wed, Fri), and low calorie, low carb dieting on Rest/Cardio days?

Please only leave feedback if you have personally experimented with both.

[NorthTexasBB]

you will get the same results as long as you keep a steady deficit and exercise regulary regardless of what method you take to get there. Expand your thinking a little and really look at what causes fat loss.

[CaliKP]

NorthTexasBB,

I agree that the observed results would likely be the same for an individual with over 20% bodyfat. In fact, a person of size would likely achieve desirable results on a diet solely consisting of Arby’s Beef n’ Chedder sandwhiches.
However, the rules of the game change once you acheive a bodyfat content below ~15 lbs. I’m playing chess; not checkers. That’s why I posted this in the ADVANCE NUTRITION section, opposed to the general nutrion area.

Once again, I’m looking for replies from individuals who have experiemented with both protocols (see original post), AND who have successfully fought their way to single-digit bodyfat percentages.

Thanks,
KP

[SDC77]

Are you not at single digit BF% being 6'1 and 150lbs?

[CaliKP]

Are you not at single digit BF% being 6'1 and 150lbs?

Yes, and I've transitioned to I.F. to gain LBM without gaining a conciderable amount of BF. I simply need to know which workout & cyclic protocol works best to acheive this. Or which works best for fat loss while minimizing muscle loss.

[nondualism]

Yes, and I've transitioned to I.F. to gain LBM without gaining a conciderable amount of BF. I simply need to know which workout & cyclic protocol works best to acheive this. Or which works best for fat loss while minimizing muscle loss.

I think you realize diet will be foremost in keeping the fat off. I too plan on doing an IF lean gains phase...

I plan to start with maintenance +25% on training days and maintenance on off days. If fat begins to accumulate, I'll experiment with going below maintenance on off days till it evens out.

Protein will be 1g/lb LBM.

[NorthTexasBB]

Fat loss requires a deficit, nothing more, nothing less



Perhaps you should read wave lengths thread and take notes instead of falling prey to bodybuilding myths thats you cant cut to single % eating cakes and ice cream

[BRO_RESULTS]

NorthTexasBB,

I agree that the observed results would likely be the same for an individual with over 20% bodyfat. In fact, a person of size would likely achieve desirable results on a diet solely consisting of Arby’s Beef n’ Chedder sandwhiches.
However, the rules of the game change once you acheive a bodyfat content below ~15 lbs. I’m playing chess; not checkers. That’s why I posted this in the ADVANCE NUTRITION section, opposed to the general nutrion area.

Once again, I’m looking for replies from individuals who have experiemented with both protocols (see original post), AND who have successfully fought their way to single-digit bodyfat percentages.

Thanks,
KP
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1166/1454018245_5986b5e6c1.jpg

[CaliKP]

That looks like Paul Scarboroughs advice, he gave me the same plan last year.

If you can handle going from high to low carbs, I think carb cycling is a fantastic way to go.

Personally, all it had me do was either gorge on peanut butter or rice cakes.

I am doing more of the Arnie plan, 4 days low, then high refeed.

I find I just get my head wrapped around the low carbs, feel good on them, then have to sort out the high carbs.

BTW, how did you come up with your daily calories?

Did you do the maths for that one?

Just checking to see if you have done your homework


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x
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T

Trunlic,

No carb dieting isn’t a problem for me. In fact, during previous bouts with ketogenic dieting, I actually enjoyed ketogenic meals. Crustless quiche for breakfast, whopper’s without buns for lunch, Donimo’s pizza no crust for dinner, casein in heavy cream before bed.
And ketosis has other benefits. More energy, more focused at work, enhanced creativity, body requires less sleep.
My only qualm with ketogenic cyclic is the carbup. Carb-ups for me entail severe bloating followed by severe headaches the day afterward. However, of all the diets I’ve tried, CKD is the one which has yielded desirable results with regards to fat loss with minimal muscle loss. So, I suspect your current CKD-like approach of 4 days of low carbs will be effective, assuming either (A) you do depletion workouts within the first two days, or (B) your refeeds are small and carefully calculated such that you achieve low glycogen levels quickly once you’re back on low-carbs.
If you go with a depletion workout(s), consider eating Greek yogurt as your PWO meal. It has a good mix of whey & casein, low in carbs, and the probiotics cause an insulin spike substantially higher than a whey protein shake.

I mention glycogen above because fat loss (for me) is inversely proportional to my body’s glycogen storage levels. As is fat gain. In layman’s terms, the closer I get to glycogen compensation, the more fat I gain. Inversely, the more depleted my glycogen storages are the more fat I loss that day.
I typically slip into ketosis when glycogen stores get below ~30% of full. Not that I think that ketosis is important to monitor, it’s simply an indication that I’ve reached that optimal fat utilization zone and that I should increase carbs according to prevent amino acid gluconeogenesis. Or at least increase protein intake to compensate for it.

My observation in assisting others with dieting has been that everyone responses to glycogen levels differently. For example, I slip into ketosis at 30%, start losing considerable muscle at 20%, and start gaining fat quickly above 70%. Whereas, I’ve observed others who gained minimal fat even after reaching 100% compensation and loss seeming no muscle at full depletion. My hope is that Intermittent Fasting will bring me closer to this dynamic.

My current battle plan is to stay with IF dieting as its less hassle, and of course to study the hormonal and physiologic effects.
I’ll eat 20% over maintenance on Workout days and 20% under maintenance on Rest days. Once my glycogen stores are full enough such that I begin gaining fat, I’ll transition into a cut (10% over on WO, 20% under on Rest) until I start I start losing muscle.

With regard to my daily calories, I use an Excel spreadsheet to log my daily food intake, activities, weight, and BF%. From this data, the sheet automatically calculates my BMR.
The sheet has grown more sophisticate over the years, incorporating data validation (drop-down menus) referencing a food database, VBA macros that dump daily information to a historian, body recomposition projections, current glycogen levels, it predicts upcoming shifts in metabolic rate based on previous days of dieting, amino acid profiles for each meal, a meal suggestion application for user specified nutrients or macros, and much more. In fact, it gets so meticulous in some aspects that I choose not to mention the details in this post as some loser would insist on replying to inform me that it was overkill. But this is all just a science experiment to me; therefore, all data has the potential to be valuable.

But, if you personally are search for a monitoring tool, my recommendation is Fitday. It’s one of the better fitness software packages out there. Log your caloric intake, activities, and body weight for a few months and you’ll be able to estimate your BMR.

Good luck,
KP

[BRO_RESULTS]

Yes, and I've transitioned to I.F. to gain LBM without gaining a conciderable amount of BF. I simply need to know which workout & cyclic protocol works best to acheive this. Or which works best for fat loss while minimizing muscle loss.
Yeah, I don't know exactly how IFing would be superior for gaining mass with minimal fat loss.

IF is basically the new six meals a day. Back when the six meal or more a day dogma was around, everyone thought that it was the key to becoming huge and ripped and gaining no fat. Lo and behold that never worked. Then you have the folks who it didn't work for and they all of a sudden think that the polar opposite of one meal a day would yield better gains since six or more didn't. Did you maybe stop and think that all this dietary voodoo probably makes zilch difference in terms of body composition?