I am not a rep nor am I sucking up

[DanTheManB]

But XTEND is seriously the finest prep tool out there. Very seriously....if you're struggling with hunger it helps to sip in between meals

[m_shannon]

How does it compare with intrabolic? I've never used this type of supplement before, but the vitamin shoppe near my house had a bunch of intrabolic's and xtends on clearance for $11 so i'm thinking about giving them a shot.

[cassiegose]

But XTEND is seriously the finest prep tool out there. Very seriously....if you're struggling with hunger it helps to sip in between meals

Funny you mention this as I've been trying to figure out if I should keep Xtend in my diet. I agree that it is an AWESOME product, also really like vasocharge. I'm a little over 3 weeks out from a show and have been taking both Xtend and Vasocharge. I'm wondering if I should keep those in right up until peak week or take them out and switch to BCAAS. Thoughts?

[AustrianOakJr]

Funny you mention this as I've been trying to figure out if I should keep Xtend in my diet. I agree that it is an AWESOME product, also really like vasocharge. I'm a little over 3 weeks out from a show and have been taking both Xtend and Vasocharge. I'm wondering if I should keep those in right up until peak week or take them out and switch to BCAAS. Thoughts?

Xtend is BCAA's. I agree that xtend does help stave off muscle loss and can help with hunger. But a lot of people go too crazy with it and drink it like it was free calories. You CAN have too much of it and if you arent compensating your diet for the xtend, you may never get lean!

[cassiegose]

Xtend is BCAA's. I agree that xtend does help stave off muscle loss and can help with hunger. But a lot of people go too crazy with it and drink it like it was free calories. You CAN have too much of it and if you arent compensating your diet for the xtend, you may never get lean!

Thanks for the info. I realize that is it BCAAs, thats why I was thinking about taking it out and replacing with BCAA pills (I guess I wasn't clear in my question that I would be swapping it for pills) for the next few weeks until the show. I did take it out this morning so I will go ahead and leave it out until I get through the next 3 shows. Any thoughts on the vasocharge? I took that out this morning as well. I think I'll leave both out and see what happens.

[S62]

I'm enjoying Chain'd Out a lot better than Xtend. There is really no comparison.

[AustrianOakJr]

Thanks for the info. I realize that is it BCAAs, thats why I was thinking about taking it out and replacing with BCAA pills (I guess I wasn't clear in my question that I would be swapping it for pills) for the next few weeks until the show. I did take it out this morning so I will go ahead and leave it out until I get through the next 3 shows. Any thoughts on the vasocharge? I took that out this morning as well. I think I'll leave both out and see what happens.

Why switch to the pills though? There is no advantage to taking BCAA pills as opposed to powder form. If anything there is a disadvantage because your lacking the sweet taste of the drink, which is always nice when you are deep into prep.

As for vaso......you MAY want to take it out for the last few weeks only so that it has more of a pronounced effect when you go to use it on show day prior to stepping on stage. I know I get used to it and it doesnt dialate my blood vessels as much after taking it for weeks.

[cassiegose]

I was thinking about switching to BCAA pills because I've hit a pleateau so am realling watching calories closely. I have no idea how many calories are in xtend as they aren't listed on the nutrition label. Bad idea? Thanks for the info on the vasocharge. I'll take it out and add it back in peak week. Should I be worried about the artificial sweeteners bloating me up for the show though? For my last shows I took out all artificial sweeteners for peak week.

[UCFBuilder]

i agree OP...i started prep about a month ago...and very rarely am i hungry and i think its because i have been having a scoop in between meals...it holds off the hunger just long enough so i can make it to my next meal...tasts amazing as well

[getbustered]

I was thinking about switching to BCAA pills because I've hit a pleateau so am realling watching calories closely. I have no idea how many calories are in xtend as they aren't listed on the nutrition label. Bad idea? Thanks for the info on the vasocharge. I'll take it out and add it back in peak week. Should I be worried about the artificial sweeteners bloating me up for the show though? For my last shows I took out all artificial sweeteners for peak week.

BCAA supplements do not contain a complete protein, so per FDA guidelines cannot be listed on the label as such. That is why they don't show up as protein, or list calories.

I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe it would be anything other than 1g BCAA = 4 calories.

[DanTheManB]

Xtend is BCAA's. I agree that xtend does help stave off muscle loss and can help with hunger. But a lot of people go too crazy with it and drink it like it was free calories. You CAN have too much of it and if you arent compensating your diet for the xtend, you may never get lean!

Totally agree with you

[DanTheManB]

BCAA supplements do not contain a complete protein, so per FDA guidelines cannot be listed on the label as such. That is why they don't show up as protein, or list calories.

I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe it would be anything other than 1g BCAA = 4 calories.

I heard somewhere 1 scoop = the equivalent of 5 g protein? I could be totally wrong though

[cassiegose]

I heard somewhere 1 scoop = the equivalent of 5 g protein? I could be totally wrong though

Hmmm so that would mean 2 scoops has 40 calories. Probably not going to set me back as far as fat loss goes but I'm down to the wire and hit a plateau so need to be counting everything this next few weeks until the show.

[kimm4]

Hmmm so that would mean 2 scoops has 40 calories. Probably not going to set me back as far as fat loss goes but I'm down to the wire and hit a plateau so need to be counting everything this next few weeks until the show.

If you're lean enough and show ready, the 2 scoops wouldn't set you back at all.

Hey Dan, long time no chat!! :)

[DanTheManB]

If you're lean enough and show ready, the 2 scoops wouldn't set you back at all.

Hey Dan, long time no chat!! :)

indeed! I <3 you Kimmy! how are ya??

[kimm4]

indeed! I <3 you Kimmy! how are ya??

I'm busy as heck, but I'm doing great!

Nice to see you, we need to catch up soon. :)

[m_shannon]

For anyone that's interested, I purchased Intrabolic today, and took it during my chest routine. Much to my surprise, I added 20 lbs. to my working sets of incline bb bench! I've been in a caloric deficit for awhile now, and have been watching my macros pretty closely. My strength has remained the same for the past couple of weeks, and I always workout around the same time. So, intrabolic was the only outside variable!

It may have just been a fluke though. We'll see what happens tomorrow...

[lth]

For anyone that's interested, I purchased Intrabolic today, and took it during my chest routine. Much to my surprise, I added 20 lbs. to my working sets of incline bb bench! I've been in a caloric deficit for awhile now, and have been watching my macros pretty closely. My strength has remained the same for the past couple of weeks, and I always workout around the same time. So, intrabolic was the only outside variable!

It may have just been a fluke though. We'll see what happens tomorrow...

yeah placebo is a crazy thing....

[m_shannon]

Yeah you're prob right, It tasted good though http://assets.bodybuilding.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Zarazen]

Here's the thing, if you consistently take in let's say 4 scoops a day during your prep it makes little difference in the long run. I take in 4 scoops a day (1 pre, 2 during, 1 post workout) and don't even count it in my daily totals but i make sure to stay consistent. I don't decide to have 6 scoops one day, 4 the next, 9 the next, 1 the next etc etc...i am constantly taking in 4 a day whether it be an off day or not and all throughout the prep.

[jackedrabbit]

I heard somewhere 1 scoop = the equivalent of 5 g protein? I could be totally wrong though

Not sure if it equals protein, but my prep coach did advise me not to have Xtend during cardio when I'm trying to use lipids for fuel. The thought behind this is that the body will burn the BCAA's as fuel...

It makes sense, and I'm doing it because my coach is extremely successful in bb for himself and for other clients who have won several top/national shows but who knows, right?

I think the megadosing thing is BS though. Spending all that money going through a tub of Xtend is great for Scivation so of course they'd push and market megadosing. Business is business, although Scivation is a pretty good and respectable company.

I'd like to see a study done where individuals consume no direct protein sources and keep protein as low as humanly possible...while using Xtend. And compare that to a diet full of protein. I wonder how it'd pan out- both gaining muscle and for losing fat while keeping muscle. I think that would be a cool test to see how effective Xtend is compared to protein. Or rather, building blocks of protein vs. complete/non-complete protein food sources.

[Sporto1633]

Not sure if it equals protein, but my prep coach did advise me not to have Xtend during cardio when I'm trying to use lipids for fuel. The thought behind this is that the body will burn the BCAA's as fuel...

Except that

a) the BCAAs are being used as fuel to prevent muscle breakdown because you are doing cardio in a fasted (very catabolic) state

b) The BCAAs don't interrupt the body using lipids for fuel because of some slight insulin release they may have.

The problem with this "thought" is that it assumes that there is some on/off switch that occurs with the body's fat burning process anytime the presence of insulin (no matter to what degree) is there. That is simply not how the body works. Even with BCAAs being slightly insulinogenic, they don't interrupt the fat burning process...hell, if that was even close to being true, about half of the people that turned pro last year wouldn't have been able to do so LOL


It makes sense, and I'm doing it because my coach is extremely successful in bb for himself and for other clients who have won several top/national shows but who knows, right?

Actually it doesn't make any sense that the body is so black/white regarding insulin release and fat burning. And what do other prep coaches know that are also extremely successful that have several clients winning top level national shows and dozens of pro cards that have their clients sipping BCAAs during cardio, right? (<-- see how ridiculous a comment like this is when trying to prove a point?)

Prep coaches can be very successful in spite of some things that they have their clients doing (I'm included in this statement, just so you know) due to the intangibles that the clients themselves possess (work ethic, dedication, perserverence, etc.)


I think the megadosing thing is BS though. Spending all that money going through a tub of Xtend is great for Scivation so of course they'd push and market megadosing. Business is business, although Scivation is a pretty good and respectable company.

I'd have to say that Scivation is a much better company than just "pretty good"

As far as the megadosing, I would rather use my BCAAs in a situation when I needed to spike and fall my protein synthesis (between meals longer than 3 hours apart, waking up in the middle ofthe night to pee, etc.) simply because I believe in the studies that support a refractory response to protein synthesis in un-enhanced athletes when tyring to maintain an "even-keel" flow all day.


I'd like to see a study done where individuals consume no direct protein sources and keep protein as low as humanly possible...while using Xtend. And compare that to a diet full of protein. I wonder how it'd pan out- both gaining muscle and for losing fat while keeping muscle. I think that would be a cool test to see how effective Xtend is compared to protein. Or rather, building blocks of protein vs. complete/non-complete protein food sources.

Don't you mean a study that shows complete proteins vs. BCAAs (not Xtend)?

And don't you think the answer is pretty obvious considering what we already know about complete proteins, BCAAs, and protein synthesis?

There just simply isn't a way to make the approach with BCAAs only cost effective at all.

Sporto

[jackedrabbit]

Except that

a) the BCAAs are being used as fuel to prevent muscle breakdown because you are doing cardio in a fasted (very catabolic) state

b) The BCAAs don't interrupt the body using lipids for fuel because of some slight insulin release they may have.

The problem with this "thought" is that it assumes that there is some on/off switch that occurs with the body's fat burning process anytime the presence of insulin (no matter to what degree) is there. That is simply not how the body works. Even with BCAAs being slightly insulinogenic, they don't interrupt the fat burning process...hell, if that was even close to being true, about half of the people that turned pro last year wouldn't have been able to do so LOL



Actually it doesn't make any sense that the body is so black/white regarding insulin release and fat burning. And what do other prep coaches know that are also extremely successful that have several clients winning top level national shows and dozens of pro cards that have their clients sipping BCAAs during cardio, right? (<-- see how ridiculous a comment like this is when trying to prove a point?)

Prep coaches can be very successful in spite of some things that they have their clients doing (I'm included in this statement, just so you know) due to the intangibles that the clients themselves possess (work ethic, dedication, perserverence, etc.)



I'd have to say that Scivation is a much better company than just "pretty good"

As far as the megadosing, I would rather use my BCAAs in a situation when I needed to spike and fall my protein synthesis (between meals longer than 3 hours apart, waking up in the middle ofthe night to pee, etc.) simply because I believe in the studies that support a refractory response to protein synthesis in un-enhanced athletes when tyring to maintain an "even-keel" flow all day.



Don't you mean a study that shows complete proteins vs. BCAAs (not Xtend)?

And don't you think the answer is pretty obvious considering what we already know about complete proteins, BCAAs, and protein synthesis?

There just simply isn't a way to make the approach with BCAAs only cost effective at all.

Sporto

You make some good points and it obviously shows you know much more than I. I'm just gonna do what my coach says (Jason Theobald...aka scoobysnacks). If he sees this thread maybe he can weigh in on your rebuttal.

[Sporto1633]

You make some good points and it obviously shows you know much more than I. I'm just gonna do what my coach says (Jason Theobald...aka scoobysnacks). If he sees this thread maybe he can weigh in on your rebuttal.

I wasn't trying to show or prove I know more than you - the points I was making were in contrast to your assumptions

a) that thought of BCAAs shutting down the fat burning process and impeding the body's ability to use lipids for fuel is simply not true - the body doesn't work that way

b) and that this post below:


It makes sense, and I'm doing it because my coach is extremely successful in bb for himself and for other clients who have won several top/national shows but who knows, right?

is a ridiculous way to try and prove a point. You would have been better off just simply saying, "I don't know - my coach has me do this, maybe he can explain why"

Like I said, many people succeed in spite of things that they do, which is why a post like that has no place - sorry, the tone of it just urked me. That's like me saying, "I am more successful than you, therefore I know more than you" or the juicer that has a better physique without understanding any scientific fundamentals going around spouting off broscience...

For instance, solid science shows that supplemental chromium shows no added glucose disposal benefit to people who don't have a chromium deficiency - yet you will have people swear it is the holy grail when taken with carb meals. Their results may still be fantastic in spite of doing something that doesn't have anything to do with it. That was my main point...

Sporto

[jackedrabbit]

I wasn't trying to show or prove I know more than you - the points I was making were in contrast to your assumptions

a) that thought of BCAAs shutting down the fat burning process and impeding the body's ability to use lipids for fuel is simply not true - the body doesn't work that way

b) and that this post below:



is a ridiculous way to try and prove a point. You would have been better off just simply saying, "I don't know - my coach has me do this, maybe he can explain why"

Like I said, many people succeed in spite of things that they do, which is why a post like that has no place - sorry, the tone of it just urked me. That's like me saying, "I am more successful than you, therefore I know more than you" or the juicer that has a better physique without understanding any scientific fundamentals going around spouting off broscience...

For instance, solid science shows that supplemental chromium shows no added glucose disposal benefit to people who don't have a chromium deficiency - yet you will have people swear it is the holy grail when taken with carb meals. Their results may still be fantastic in spite of doing something that doesn't have anything to do with it. That was my main point...

Sporto

....and I wasn't "accusing you" of knowing more than me...lol. Don't be so defensive!

Tommy...dude, chill out. I'm not trying to argue with you. I simply made a comment (based on the best of my knowledge) to contribute to this thread. The fact is (and this is the way I see it- you DO know A LOT more than I do). I've read your threads, seen your pictures, and followed your progress and your preps. I admire what you do.

Online, and in words, often times you have no idea of telling someone's tone of voice. So please, I'm not arguing or trying to prove anything here.

I use Xtend, I like Xtend because it tastes good, and if the BCAA's help me too, cool. I can afford it...so if it's extra arsenal in my arms for prep, good stuff. I could care less about the science behind it, or argue about it with people online.

Like I said, my coach told me to sip on it pre and during workouts, but not during cardio. He knows more than me, which is why I'm paying him to prep me. So I'll listen to him.

Which is why I suggested that maybe if he finds this thread, you and him can have an intelligent debate over your beliefs.

[jackedrabbit]

You make some good points and it obviously shows you know much more than I. I'm just gonna do what my coach says (Jason Theobald...aka scoobysnacks). If he sees this thread maybe he can weigh in on your rebuttal.


I wasn't trying to show or prove I know more than you - the points I was making were in contrast to your assumptions

a) that thought of BCAAs shutting down the fat burning process and impeding the body's ability to use lipids for fuel is simply not true - the body doesn't work that way

b) and that this post below:



is a ridiculous way to try and prove a point. You would have been better off just simply saying, "I don't know - my coach has me do this, maybe he can explain why"

Like I said, many people succeed in spite of things that they do, which is why a post like that has no place - sorry, the tone of it just urked me. That's like me saying, "I am more successful than you, therefore I know more than you" or the juicer that has a better physique without understanding any scientific fundamentals going around spouting off broscience...

For instance, solid science shows that supplemental chromium shows no added glucose disposal benefit to people who don't have a chromium deficiency - yet you will have people swear it is the holy grail when taken with carb meals. Their results may still be fantastic in spite of doing something that doesn't have anything to do with it. That was my main point...

Sporto

I did say that, didn't I?

[Sporto1633]

Tommy...dude, chill out. I'm not trying to argue with you. I simply made a comment (based on the best of my knowledge) to contribute to this thread. The fact is (and this is the way I see it- you DO know A LOT more than I do). I've read your threads, seen your pictures, and followed your progress and your preps. I admire what you do.

Online, and in words, often times you have no idea of telling someone's tone of voice. So please, I'm not arguing or trying to prove anything here.

I use Xtend, I like Xtend because it tastes good, and if the BCAA's help me too, cool. I can afford it...so if it's extra arsenal in my arms for prep, good stuff. I could care less about the science behind it, or argue about it with people online.

Like I said, my coach told me to sip on it pre and during workouts, but not during cardio. He knows more than me, which is why I'm paying him to prep me. So I'll listen to him.

Which is why I suggested that maybe if he finds this thread, you and him can have an intelligent debate over your beliefs.

Jeff....dude, I was completely chill, I don't understand why you feel the need to blow it out of proportion...good god, this is why I hardly ever bother on this board anymore. I made two points in reference to your post - simple as that. Do whatever you want dude, I was just setting Dan's mind at ease that his body won't all of a sudden start shutting down all fat burning processes because he's sipping Xtend during cardio LOL

Sporto

[Sporto1633]

I did say that, didn't I?

Jeff, come on dude...you said that AFTER I posted that LOL! But whatever man :D

Sporto

[jackedrabbit]

Jeff....dude, I was completely chill, I don't understand why you feel the need to blow it out of proportion...good god, this is why I hardly ever bother on this board anymore. I made two points in reference to your post - simple as that. Do whatever you want dude, I was just setting Dan's mind at ease that his body won't all of a sudden start shutting down all fat burning processes because he's sipping Xtend during cardio LOL

Sporto

Again, reading someone's words online leaves out tone. It's hard to tell.

Well, as long as we're both chill...it's all good. I linked J up to this thread so let's see what he says.

I will do whatever Jason tells me to do.

[jackedrabbit]

Jeff, come on dude...you said that AFTER I posted that LOL! But whatever man :D

Sporto

Haha whatever, prob misread/misquoted. It's all good.

I'm interested in you and J talking about this though. He'll prob be posting shortly.

[WILDBILL]

Should extend be removed the last few weeks to help bring body weight down a little if needed. I feel as if something is holding me back from getting my abs totally ripped up and I feel the xtend could be the reason. Does it make you hold any water??
Thanks
Bill



Haha whatever, prob misread/misquoted. It's all good.

I'm interested in you and J talking about this though. He'll prob be posting shortly.

[fitfranco]

Just my quick two cents. The value of keepin Xtend in the diet all the way to the contest day surely outweighs any possible negative effective.

If you are worried about the few extra calories, then do 5 more mins of cardio!

I for one, agreee with the original post that it was a huge difference in my last prep, and that was the only change I made.

[DanTheManB]

Jeff....dude, I was completely chill, I don't understand why you feel the need to blow it out of proportion...good god, this is why I hardly ever bother on this board anymore. I made two points in reference to your post - simple as that. Do whatever you want dude, I was just setting Dan's mind at ease that his body won't all of a sudden start shutting down all fat burning processes because he's sipping Xtend during cardio LOL

Sporto

Damn, is that why I can't lose these saddle bags? :-p

[RobbieBoy672]

xtend has no calories or carbs so it wont effect your totals at all.

[TheSuccessful1]

xtend has no calories or carbs so it wont effect your totals at all.
It actually does, they just aren't allowed to list them for some reason. BCAAs are still protein.

[scoobysnacks]

I dont plan on debating Tommy over it. Here is my stance on it and its mainly based on trial and error.

One year I dieted with NO BCAA additions at all. I got lean pretty fast with a good deal of carbs in my diet but did lose some muscle for sure.

The next year I dieted where I was taking in BCAA really whenever I felt like it, drinking it like kool aid really, during moderate intensity cardio, in between meals, during training etc and so forth. That year I strugged to get the fat off a bit on the same carb intake that worked really well the year prior. I dont believe you can just drink them without it taking some toll on your dieting strategy. Im not the only one who believes this.

I believe BCAAs are awesome pre, during and post workout. I merely feel like the cardio I have my athletes do is not going to eat their muscle so why risk insulin spikes etc. I do add them with HIIT though.

Ive read the science and to be honest it seems it can go both ways. I dont have time to re-read this entire thread, so thats my take.

I love the scientific approach, but there are times when your own personal evidence and what you are seeing and noticing have to take precedence.

Just my take.

Ss

[bwelch1985]

I dont plan on debating Tommy over it. Here is my stance on it and its mainly based on trial and error.

One year I dieted with NO BCAA additions at all. I got lean pretty fast with a good deal of carbs in my diet but did lose some muscle for sure.

The next year I dieted where I was taking in BCAA really whenever I felt like it, drinking it like kool aid really, during moderate intensity cardio, in between meals, during training etc and so forth. That year I strugged to get the fat off a bit on the same carb intake that worked really well the year prior. I dont believe you can just drink them without it taking some toll on your dieting strategy. Im not the only one who believes this.

I believe BCAAs are awesome pre, during and post workout. I merely feel like the cardio I have my athletes do is not going to eat their muscle so why risk insulin spikes etc. I do add them with HIIT though.

Ive read the science and to be honest it seems it can go both ways. I dont have time to re-read this entire thread, so thats my take.

I love the scientific approach, but there are times when your own personal evidence and what you are seeing and noticing have to take precedence.

Just my take.

Ss

I think this is where you went wrong that year. BCAA's have a caloric value. I believe it's 4kcals/gram. So, to use them haphazardly w/out accounting for their calories was effecting your deficit at the end of the day. No different than eating more protein than you had allotted for the day.

[DanTheManB]

I think this is where you went wrong that year. BCAA's have a caloric value. I believe it's 4kcals/gram. So, to use them haphazardly w/out accounting for their calories was effecting your deficit at the end of the day. No different than eating more protein than you had allotted for the day.

major props on ur physique dude (no homo)

[scoobysnacks]

I think this is where you went wrong that year. BCAA's have a caloric value. I believe it's 4kcals/gram. So, to use them haphazardly w/out accounting for their calories was effecting your deficit at the end of the day. No different than eating more protein than you had allotted for the day.

I agree, thats why I went on to say you cant use them haphazardly without accounting for them or taking its toll on your diet strategy. I agree with your analysis. Thats why I have my guys use them when I feel its most important thats around training, if a natural is going to metabolize muscle I feel its mainly going to happen during training, so since BCAA intake isnt infinite, use it most wisely. So I have my guys keep it out of the moderate cardio so we can take more during training.

Take care,

Ss

[JOSEF RAKICH]

Xtend is BCAA's. I agree that xtend does help stave off muscle loss and can help with hunger. But a lot of people go too crazy with it and drink it like it was free calories. You CAN have too much of it and if you arent compensating your diet for the xtend, you may never get lean!


BCAA supplements do not contain a complete protein, so per FDA guidelines cannot be listed on the label as such. That is why they don't show up as protein, or list calories.

I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe it would be anything other than 1g BCAA = 4 calories.

Mind = Blown.

I knew BCAA's where protein, but i never knew that it had a calorie value..

Nice posts Sporto about BCAA's during cardio and fat burning.

[lth]

Scivation never advises megadosing xtend that i can recall.....marc lobliner has said that he personally does it but also says that the recommendations (4 scoops or whatever) intra workout will suffice just fine.

[NaturalLoco]

hey guys;

do any of you buy your xtend online? I'm from aus and its pretty expensive over here, what's a good price/good site where i can buy it cheap?

[Dallas_15]

hey guys;

do any of you buy your xtend online? I'm from aus and its pretty expensive over here, what's a good price/good site where i can buy it cheap?

Im with you NatLoco,

The cheapest I could find was $82 (free postage) on ebay for the big tub and thats not even Watermelon flavor :(

(I hear thats meant to taste the best...)

[RobbieBoy672]

It actually does, they just aren't allowed to list them for some reason. BCAAs are still protein.

the owner of scivation said that it had no calories in a post let me try and find it....


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=677770&highlight=xtend+calories

found it

[DanTheManB]

the owner of scivation said that it had no calories in a post let me try and find it....


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=677770&highlight=xtend+calories

found it

I guarantee it has trace calories from splenda alone

[jackedrabbit]

I guarantee it has trace calories from splenda alone

Hey Dan, I don't think there's any Splenda in there. They sweeten with sucralose, which has no caloric value. Splenda on the other hand, does have calories and carbs coming from the fillers (maltodextrin, etc.) they put in to make it into packet-size amounts. So if you use 10 packets of Splenda per day, yeah you're adding cals. With pure sucralose though, it's all good. I tried some powdered stuff from an online wholesaler and my gosh, a tiny tiny little sprinkle of that stuff can sweeten an entire gallon of water.

[Barn01]

Think about this for a min ... if people take BCAA's to use as energy instead of catabolizing muscle then it just makes sense that BCAA's must have calories if they provide a source of energy. Remember the body can only convert lipids at a rate of X ... once you exceed X where is that energy going to come from? (X - is a variable that is dependent on current metabolic rate and how willing your body is to give up more fat stores as energy. The leaner you get the less willing your body is to use fat as energy)

[lth]

But also, the leaner you get the more catabolic you become correct? I'd think as you lean down BCAA becomes more beneficial rather than the initial steps in fat loss, just a thought.

[DanTheManB]

Hey Dan, I don't think there's any Splenda in there. They sweeten with sucralose, which has no caloric value. Splenda on the other hand, does have calories and carbs coming from the fillers (maltodextrin, etc.) they put in to make it into packet-size amounts. So if you use 10 packets of Splenda per day, yeah you're adding cals. With pure sucralose though, it's all good. I tried some powdered stuff from an online wholesaler and my gosh, a tiny tiny little sprinkle of that stuff can sweeten an entire gallon of water.

my mistake!

[Exa123]

hey guys;

do any of you buy your xtend online? I'm from aus and its pretty expensive over here, what's a good price/good site where i can buy it cheap?


Im with you NatLoco,

The cheapest I could find was $82 (free postage) on ebay for the big tub and thats not even Watermelon flavor :(

(I hear thats meant to taste the best...)


Boys BB.COM in my opinion is pretty sweet, 1xLarge Xtend (all flavours) will set you back $88 AUS (INCLUSIVE OF POSTAGE). Takes about a week to get it in as well - my advice would be to buy up a few at a time to save on postage

[devo09]

Scoobys reasoning is pretty correct I'd say; if someone is doing LISS (legitimatly at a LOW intensity), the idea that you gotta have your BCAAs or your going to lose your musclez from deh catabolizm is ludicrious. Muscles don't just fall off, protein is only a substrate during exercise under extreme conditions


But, I drink xtend all day because it's cheaper than chrystal light....well and teh be anabolic all day long!

[jackedrabbit]

Scoobys reasoning is pretty correct I'd say; if someone is doing LISS (legitimatly at a LOW intensity), the idea that you gotta have your BCAAs or your going to lose your musclez from deh catabolizm is ludicrious. Muscles don't just fall off, protein is only a substrate during exercise under extreme conditions


But, I drink xtend all day because it's cheaper than chrystal light....well and teh be anabolic all day long!

And it tastes better! Green apple and blue raspberry FTW!!!!!

[fitlover]

But XTEND is seriously the finest prep tool out there. Very seriously....if you're struggling with hunger it helps to sip in between meals

It's also expensive as hell. :p

I'm cheap, and sip on Supplement Direct BCAA's mixed with Crystal Light. It's not that enjoyable, but it gets the job done.

[DanTheManB]

It's also expensive as hell. :p

I'm cheap, and sip on Supplement Direct BCAA's mixed with Crystal Light. It's not that enjoyable, but it gets the job done.

totally agree on that =/

i def dont use it when in a caloric access. def feels like a waste then

[I.B.M]

the owner of scivation said that it had no calories in a post let me try and find it....

found it

Look, with all due respect to Marc he IS a businessman. Of course he wants us to believe that Xtend is a calorie-free product so we consume more of it.

It's not that he's lying but he's being very selective about what he says. According the the FDA any product that does not contain all amino acids is listed as containing no protein, thus Xtend is listed as calorie free.

This does not change the fact that 1 gram of ANY amino acids contains 4 calories, period. Thus 1 scoop of Xtend has ~20 calories.

Does it really matter? Probably not. But as bodybuilders we need to be aware of the minutia.


But also, the leaner you get the more catabolic you become correct? I'd think as you lean down BCAA becomes more beneficial rather than the initial steps in fat loss, just a thought.

Very true. Generally speaking maximum fat oxidation is ~31 calories per pound of bodyfat per day (based on research by Lyle McDonald). Thus the leaner you get the harder it is to maintain a deficit while sparing muscle tissue.

[I.B.M]

It's also expensive as hell. :p

I'm cheap, and sip on Supplement Direct BCAA's mixed with Crystal Light. It's not that enjoyable, but it gets the job done.


totally agree on that =/

i def dont use it when in a caloric access. def feels like a waste then

Xtend is expensive as hell? How much do you spend on completely discretionary consumption like television every month? Probably more than the $55 cost of a large tub of Xtend .

[DanTheManB]

Xtend is expensive as hell? How much do you spend on completely discretionary consumption like television every month? Probably more than the $55 cost of a large tub of Xtend .

GTFO dude

it's DEF way expensive. It's not a protein powder and it can go QUICK. I'd much rather spend money on whey and fish oil and a multi and FOOD than XTEND

[DanTheManB]

Very true. Generally speaking maximum fat oxidation is ~31 calories per pound of bodyfat per day (based on research by Lyle McDonald). Thus the leaner you get the harder it is to maintain a deficit while sparing muscle tissue.

No way this is true. If that's the case no one would be able to diet for a show in 10-12 weeks

[jackedrabbit]

Xtend is expensive as hell? How much do you spend on completely discretionary consumption like television every month? Probably more than the $55 cost of a large tub of Xtend .

True, but it depends on someone's financial priorities. :)


GTFO dude

it's DEF way expensive. It's not a protein powder and it can go QUICK. I'd much rather spend money on whey and fish oil and a multi and FOOD than XTEND

Definitely is expensive. I buy all of my whey, multi, vitamins, etc. from wholesale clubs like Costco. Xtend is what I call a luxury supplement.


No way this is true. If that's the case no one would be able to diet for a show in 10-12 weeks

Agreed.

[scoobysnacks]

But, I drink xtend all day because it's cheaper than chrystal light....well and teh be anabolic all day long!

Off season DEFINITELY, during contest prep during training, thats just how I roll. I believe my attention to BCAA intake through Xtend in between meals this year is in part why I should bring a good 8-10lbs more to the stage this year than last year.

[I.B.M]

No way this is true. If that's the case no one would be able to diet for a show in 10-12 weeks

Well a few points to consider:

1. Most people can't get stage lean in 10-12 and many of those that think they do have some degree of body dysmorphia. I've known of a few guys that claim to get shredded in 12 weeks and then on show day are 8% bodyfat. It takes a LONG time to get really truly shredded without some form of drug support.
2. 31 calories/gram/day was based on a study done on largely sedentary individuals - no doubt exercise increases fat oxidation.
3. Caffeine, ephredrine and a number of other natural supplements increase fat oxidation.
4. Drugs let you do things that are theoretically impossible... just look at Cutler going from 315 full offseason to 270 shredded in less than 3 months.

[DanTheManB]

Well a few points to consider:


2. 31 calories/gram/day was based on a study done on largely sedentary individuals - no doubt exercise increases fat oxidation.


3. Caffeine, ephredrine and a number of other natural supplements increase fat oxidation.
4

Yeah, woulda helped to mention this part of the study initially. Get out of my thread, troll.

[fitlover]

Xtend is expensive as hell? How much do you spend on completely discretionary consumption like television every month? Probably more than the $55 cost of a large tub of Xtend .

I don't watch TV. :) During contest prep, the time I'm not spending eating, prepping meals, or training, I'm sleeping ;)

[lth]

I don't watch TV. :) During contest prep, the time I'm not spending eating, prepping meals, or training, I'm sleeping ;)

x2....either in class, at work, eating, training, or sleeping.

[Barn01]

x2....either in class, at work, eating, training, or sleeping.

X3 ^^^ I don't even have channels at my house. I work(a lot), eat(sometimes), train(often), sleep(when I can). There just aren't enough hours in a day if you ask me!

[I.B.M]

Yeah, woulda helped to mention this part of the study initially. Get out of my thread, troll.

LOL chill man. If you refuse to even consider new information you're never going to get anywhere in bodybuilding.


I don't watch TV. :) During contest prep, the time I'm not spending eating, prepping meals, or training, I'm sleeping ;)


x2....either in class, at work, eating, training, or sleeping.


X3 ^^^ I don't even have channels at my house. I work(a lot), eat(sometimes), train(often), sleep(when I can). There just aren't enough hours in a day if you ask me!

Good to hear.

[DanTheManB]

LOL chill man. If you refuse to even consider new information you're never going to get anywhere in bodybuilding.







Good to hear.

if you're gonna quote a study provide a link or at LEAST quote the important parts asshat

[devo09]

No way this is true. If that's the case no one would be able to diet for a show in 10-12 weeks

well most cant unless they take "extreme measures"


It's pretty realistic actually...

If you have 10lbs of fat left (which puts most people close to contest shape) you can support a 310kcal/daily deficit. 310x7 =2170kcal per week 2170/3500 =.62lbs per week. And that is getting the last bit of nitty gritty off

If you have 20lbs of fat left you could support a 620kcal deficit (31kcal x20) 620x7 = 4340/3500 =1.24 lbs per week

A limit on the energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia.


A limit on the maximum energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia is deduced from experimental data of underfed subjects maintaining moderate activity levels and is found to have a value of (290+/-25) kJ/kgd. A dietary restriction which exceeds the limited capability of the fat store to compensate for the energy deficiency results in an immediate decrease in the fat free mass (FFM). In cases of a less severe dietary deficiency, the FFM will not be depleted.


I think thats pretty realistic, and its kinda fun to crunch the numbers :cool:

[jth16]

if you're gonna quote a study provide a link or at LEAST quote the important parts asshat

Calm down bud, that's a bit unnecessary.

[jenny25]

Calm down bud, that's a bit unnecessary.

Winner never quit, quitter never win.
Cheer up!!!

[co1e_train]

well most cant unless they take "extreme measures"


It's pretty realistic actually...

If you have 10lbs of fat left (which puts most people close to contest shape) you can support a 310kcal/daily deficit. 310x7 =2170kcal per week 2170/3500 =.62lbs per week. And that is getting the last bit of nitty gritty off

If you have 20lbs of fat left you could support a 620kcal deficit (31kcal x20) 620x7 = 4340/3500 =1.24 lbs per week

A limit on the energy transfer rate from the human fat store in hypophagia.




I think thats pretty realistic, and its kinda fun to crunch the numbers :cool:



But couldn't that kind of deficit kill your metabolsim? Or is ten weeks a short enough time period where it your metabolism wouldn't die. I had that problem, I was dieting for about 15 weeks on cals below 2000 on low days (did a carb cycle of 1 high, 3 low) and my metabolism died to where I actually had to up my cals to start it again.

[DanTheManB]

Calm down bud, that's a bit unnecessary.

not at all. and i've been calm the whole time

[I.B.M]

if you're gonna quote a study provide a link or at LEAST quote the important parts asshat


not at all. and i've been calm the whole time

Guys like you are the reason why bodybuilders are so looked down upon. Give your ego a break and stop taking what is said on an internet forum as some personal judgment against you.

I'm not going to spend 15 minutes searching for the details of the study... it's all on Lyle's website if you're truly interested. The purpose of the study was to illustrate the fact that as one gets leaner your deficit has to get smaller or you're going to lose more muscle. Unfortunately most guys don't give themselves enough time to get lean and as such they are forced to increase their deficit the closer they get to the show... and thus risk flattening out and losing muscle.

All of this was to agree with Lth's statement that BCAA are more important the leaner you are. Less bodyfat = less muscle-sparing tissue.

[lth]

not at all. and i've been calm the whole time

Yes, because throwing around terms like asshat means youre totally calm and collected.

[The Solution]

It's also expensive as hell. :p

I'm cheap, and sip on Supplement Direct BCAA's mixed with Crystal Light. It's not that enjoyable, but it gets the job done.

funny you say this cause price per serving xtend is cheaper than Crystal Light...

[co1e_train]

funny you say this cause price per serving xtend is cheaper than Crystal Light...

It is???

The crystal light or the generic brand is like under two bucks for the container with the individual little tubs that that if all used would make a liter I believe.

[The Solution]

You can find xtend on the internet if you look around for 35-40$
around 40 cents per serving.

[DanTheManB]

Yes, because throwing around terms like asshat means youre totally calm and collected.

u have no idea how composed i was when i wrote that

[I.B.M]

You can find xtend on the internet if you look around for 35-40$
around 40 cents per serving.

This.

[Dnarts]

You can find xtend on the internet if you look around for 35-40$
around 40 cents per serving.

No shipping costs for crystal light though. Crystal light + cheap supplements bcaa's is what I do too, you get 10 packets of crystal light for about 2 bucks.

[fitlover]

No shipping costs for crystal light though. Crystal light + cheap supplements bcaa's is what I do too, you get 10 packets of crystal light for about 2 bucks.

Props, buddy! :D I like mine with strawberry-orange-banana, omnomnom.

Just bloats me up like no tomorrow, meh. It'll have to do.

[Dnarts]

Props, buddy! :D I like mine with strawberry-orange-banana, omnomnom.

Just bloats me up like no tomorrow, meh. It'll have to do.

Lemon-lime for me, haha. It'll have to do until a generous supplement company starts sending me it for free. haha

[lth]

u have no idea how composed i was when i wrote that

lmao, hahaha, i'll take your word

[fitlover]

Lemon-lime for me, haha. It'll have to do until a generous supplement company starts sending me it for free. haha

It would be cool to be sponsored, huh?

All in good time! Another 2 years for me.

[The Solution]

Lemon-lime for me, haha. It'll have to do until a generous supplement company starts sending me it for free. haha

I don't get everything from Scivation for free, I buy Solution 5, Xtend, and other things on a monthly basis.

[DanTheManB]

lmao, hahaha, i'll take your word

i'm extremely stoic and subdued. i call people morons to their face if need be without skipping a beat (srs)

[DanTheManB]

hey guys bob is a bbing.com celeb. dont hate :-p

[str8flexed]

I'm enjoying Chain'd Out a lot better than Xtend. There is really no comparison.

except for the fact that since the BCAAs are present as leucine malate, isoleucine malate, and valine malate, the malate is half of the weight and so you are actually getting HALF the true amount of BCAAs per gram of product. Not saying it's bad to put it with a malate, but that is why xtend is more expensive because it has more BCAAs/gram product

[Barn01]

except for the fact that since the BCAAs are present as leucine malate, isoleucine malate, and valine malate, the malate is half of the weight and so you are actually getting HALF the true amount of BCAAs per gram of product. Not saying it's bad to put it with a malate, but that is why xtend is more expensive because it has more BCAAs/gram product

Cool ... good to know!

[I.B.M]

i'm extremely stoic and subdued. i call people morons to their face if need be without skipping a beat (srs)

Stop getting your panties in a bunch because you were called out for being unnecessarily aggressive.

http://drunkenachura.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/internet-serious-business.jpg

[DanTheManB]

Stop getting your panties in a bunch because you were called out for being unnecessarily aggressive.

http://drunkenachura.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/internet-serious-business.jpg

ur a total moron. not even a profile pic. get some balls

[I.B.M]

ur a total moron. not even a profile pic. get some balls

I choose not to post a profile picture just to get a rise out of egotists like yourself.

[DanTheManB]

I choose not to post a profile picture just to get a rise out of egotists like yourself.

please. i think of myself as ugly, fat, a pos and a loser. i dont have an ego. but i can honestly assess myself. u scared? u mad?

[I.B.M]

please. i think of myself as ugly, fat, a pos and a loser. i dont have an ego. but i can honestly asses myself. u scared? u mad?

I can honestly assess (note correct spelling) myself without posting photos on a public forum. I am neither scared of nor mad at you because honestly I couldn't care less. If you really find it necessary to insult others online then perhaps you're just taking this WAY too seriously.

Have a fine day.

[DanTheManB]

I can honestly assess (note correct spelling) myself without posting photos on a public forum. I am neither scared of nor mad at you because honestly I couldn't care less. If you really find it necessary to insult others online then perhaps you're just taking this WAY too seriously.

Have a fine day.

yea i make typos like a lot of humans

[I.B.M]

yea i make typos like a lot of humans

Yeah and 50% of American adults can't find New York state on an unlabeled map.

Moral of the story is that to be normal is to be average and who wants to be average?

[DanTheManB]

Yeah and 50% of American adults can't find New York state on an unlabeled map.

Moral of the story is that to be normal is to be average and who wants to be average?

Still talking s hit. do you even HAVE a physique worth mentioning? until u post a pic shut the fuk up idiot

[str8flexed]

chill it out guys

[sloboda]

amazing product. i used it during my transformation

[JOSEF RAKICH]

So..

If one was going to do LISS post-workout, would it be best to consume the BCAA's during the weight training or during the cardio?

[AustrianOakJr]

So..

If one was going to do LISS post-workout, would it be best to consume the BCAA's during the weight training or during the cardio?

If you had to choose one or the other, I would say the weight training as its much more catabolic than the LISS. But, if you set aside a certain serving of xtend for the day, just split it up between the two with the majority being consumed during your weight training.

[I.B.M]

So..

If one was going to do LISS post-workout, would it be best to consume the BCAA's during the weight training or during the cardio?

I would just increase the serving (add 2 or 3 scoops). That's assuming you can afford it from a cost and calorie standpoint.

[lth]

If you had to choose one or the other, I would say the weight training as its much more catabolic than the LISS. But, if you set aside a certain serving of xtend for the day, just split it up between the two with the majority being consumed during your weight training.

I find it more beneficial to consume intra workout rather than cardio too, I'm a believer in scooby's theory on that

[I.B.M]

I find it more beneficial to consume intra workout rather than cardio too, I'm a believer in scooby's theory on that

Yeah right now in the offseason I don't do anything special around cardio. No pre-workout supp or BCAAs or PWO shake. Keep it simple.

That being said BCAAs might serve some purpose when doing cardio during contest prep.

[JOSEF RAKICH]

If you had to choose one or the other, I would say the weight training as its much more catabolic than the LISS. But, if you set aside a certain serving of xtend for the day, just split it up between the two with the majority being consumed during your weight training.


I would just increase the serving (add 2 or 3 scoops). That's assuming you can afford it from a cost and calorie standpoint.


I find it more beneficial to consume intra workout rather than cardio too, I'm a believer in scooby's theory on that

Cool, thanks for the replys guys.