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reyalp
02-21-2010, 06:11 PM
...since I'm not a believer?


Would I also be considered fair game for the purposes At Taubah 9:5?

I read some of the exegesis on this but it seemed very period-specific.

dakensta
02-21-2010, 06:15 PM
http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/toad1.jpg

reyalp
02-21-2010, 06:16 PM
http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/toad1.jpg
What do the five fingers say to the toadstool?

dakensta
02-21-2010, 06:17 PM
dunno, what?

AbuMaryam
02-21-2010, 06:21 PM
...since I'm not a believer?


Would I also be considered fair game for the purposes At Taubah 9:5?

I read some of the exegesis on this but it seemed very period-specific.[5-6] Then, when the months made unlawful6 for fighting expire, kill the mushriks wherever you find them, and seize them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and establish Salat and pay the Zakat dues, then let them go their way:7 for Allah is Forgiving and Compassionate. And if any of the mushriks requests you for protection so that he may come to you (to hear the Word of Allah), give him protection till he hears the Word of Allah; then convey him. to the place of his safety: this should be done because these people do not know the Truth.

That is, "if during a fight, an enemy makes a request that he should be given an opportunity to understand Islam, the Muslims should give him a surety of protection and allow him to visit them. They should then present Islam before him in order to make him understand it. If, after this, he does not embrace Islam, they should convey him safely to his place" . Such a person who comes to Dar-ul-Islam under the above mentioned protection is called musta'min in the Islamic Code.

Well since you ask I guess you're a musta'min atm :D, really don't think the context those verses applies to you regardless. You physically attacking us for being muslims atm, sancho? If not we can't just kill you bc you don't follow islam, this verse is in relations with those who are at war with Islam and bringing harm to muslims.

dakensta
02-21-2010, 06:24 PM
That's a terrible punchline.
I don't get it.

Blindead
02-21-2010, 06:32 PM
I thought Mushrik was a polytheist, and that Muslims could kill them.

AbuMaryam
02-21-2010, 06:36 PM
I thought Mushrik was a polytheist, and that Muslims could kill them.

mushrikūn (مشركون) "those who commit shirk and plot against Islam" often clearly refers to the enemies of Islam (as in verse 9.1-15) but sometimes it also refers to erring Muslims.

You got that they can kill them, because they are enemies of Islam and our at war with Islam, or fight them until the return into the fold of Islam. I think you have it sorta mixed up with Zālimūn (polytheists and wrong-doers - of a lesser degree)

reyalp
02-21-2010, 06:38 PM
[5-6] Then, when the months made unlawful6 for fighting expire, kill the mushriks wherever you find them, and seize them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and establish Salat and pay the Zakat dues, then let them go their way:7 for Allah is Forgiving and Compassionate. And if any of the mushriks requests you for protection so that he may come to you (to hear the Word of Allah), give him protection till he hears the Word of Allah; then convey him. to the place of his safety: this should be done because these people do not know the Truth.

That is, "if during a fight, an enemy makes a request that he should be given an opportunity to understand Islam, the Muslims should give him a surety of protection and allow him to visit them. They should then present Islam before him in order to make him understand it. If, after this, he does not embrace Islam, they should convey him safely to his place" . Such a person who comes to Dar-ul-Islam under the above mentioned protection is called musta'min in the Islamic Code.

Well since you ask I guess you're a musta'min atm :D, really don't think the context those verses applies to you regardless. You physically attacking us for being muslims atm, sancho? If not we can't just kill you bc you don't follow islam, this verse is in relations with those who are at war with Islam and bringing harm to muslims.

Well I'm not a soldier or anything, no.
I guess I was just confused because it was so vague.
I don't know what's arabic for `soldier`, but if he just meant the soldiers I figured he would have said that instead.
Or was it the entire people of the nations that broke the treaties?

Weightaholic
02-21-2010, 06:45 PM
You have to pay zakat though. It's kind of like protection money.

AbuMaryam
02-21-2010, 06:46 PM
Well I'm not a soldier or anything, no.
I guess I was just confused because it was so vague.
I don't know what's arabic for `soldier`, but if he just meant the soldiers I figured he would have said that instead.
Or was it the entire people of the nations that broke the treaties?

I sorta got mixed up with it aswell. And it doesn't say soldier and is more specific than just a "soldier(s)".
Clarify on the last line, not sure what you mean.

AbuMaryam
02-21-2010, 06:48 PM
You have to pay zakat though. It's kind of like protection money.
Muslims have to pay zakat aswell, I think you meant jizya?? ie The tax that is/was to be levied on able bodied adult males of military age and affording power, (but with specific exemptions)

Blindead
02-21-2010, 06:49 PM
Zakat is a tax for social services.

Weightaholic
02-21-2010, 06:50 PM
If you want to live in an Islamic society and have muslims fight with their lives to protect the community from attack including them, if that happens. Muslims have to pay zakat aswell, I think you meant jizya??
Hahaha. You're right. I'm stuffing my face, so I was a bit distracted. 4 breadrolls with ham cheese and tomato, for anyone interested. Delicious.

AbuMaryam
02-21-2010, 06:52 PM
Hahaha. You're right. I'm stuffing my face, so I was a bit distracted. 4 breadrolls with ham cheese and tomato, for anyone interested. Delicious.

No offense but I'll pass. Im on a cut atm http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Iskender_kebap.jpg

Fantastic and halal :D

Blindead
02-21-2010, 06:54 PM
I'm eating peanut M + M's. U MAD?

Weightaholic
02-21-2010, 06:55 PM
No offense but I'll pass. Im on a cut atm http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Iskender_kebap.jpg

Fantastic and halal :D

Looks nice, but there's no such thing as halal or haram for me.

No cutting either. Permabulk FTMFW.

Blindead
02-21-2010, 07:00 PM
I'm currently on the "I'm injured so I eat what the **** I want" diet. It's going well.

reyalp
02-21-2010, 07:10 PM
I sorta got mixed up with it aswell. And it doesn't say soldier and is more specific than just a "soldier(s)".
Clarify on the last line, not sure what you mean.

did he just mean mushrikūn as in "the mushrikūn people of the nations who broke the treaties," or something else?

AbuMaryam
02-21-2010, 07:17 PM
did he just mean mushrikūn as in "the mushrikūn people of the nations who broke the treaties," or something else?
My bad wasn't sure exactly sure what you were refering to at first.Yes but it also applies to others like muslims who turn thier back on their treaty they have made with Allah ie paying Zakat for example

This declaration of the abrogation of the treaties with the mushriks was made in accordance with the law enjoined in VIII: 58 regarding the treacherous people, for it is treachery from the Islamic point of view to wage war against any people with whom a treaty of peace had been made, without openly declaring that the treaty had been terminated. That is why a proclamation of the abrogation of the treaties was necessitated against those clans who were always hatching plots against Islam in spice of the treaties of peace they had made. They would break the treaties and turn hostile on the first opportunity for treachery, and the same was true of all the mushrik clans with the exception of Bani Kananah, Bani Damrah and one or two other clans.
VIII: 58:60 -"As regards those from among them with whom you made treaties and who violate them time after time and do not fear Allah in the least, if you encounter them in combat, make of them a fearsome example for others who would follow them so that they might be unnerved. It is expected that they will learn a lesson from the end of the treacherous people. And if you ever fear treachery from any people, throw their treaty openly before them;indeed Allah does not like the treacherous people. Let not those who deny the Truth delude themselves that they have won the game; indeed they are incapable of frustrating Us.

I'm currently on the "I'm injured so I eat what the **** I want" diet. It's going well.

Glad to hear you are keeping sanity would probaly go crazy if I was injured like that.How much longer till you make a full recovery, seems like you been on that diet forever??

Blindead
02-21-2010, 07:23 PM
I haven't been able to train regularly for coming up on 10 months.

GrokTheCube
02-21-2010, 07:30 PM
I'm currently on the "I'm injured so I eat what the **** I want" diet. It's going well.

Lol. I feel you, not allowed to work out for a while because I had a minor surgery.

Gimme meh pizza

GrokTheCube
02-21-2010, 07:31 PM
I haven't been able to train regularly for coming up on 10 months.

Damn dude, what did you do?

AbuMaryam
02-21-2010, 07:33 PM
Grok what happened with you, why did you need surgery/what caused it to begin with. I messed up my wrist doing heavy reverse curls but just trained legs and all hopefully it would be good enough for me to train chest and shoulders tomorrow إن شاء الله


I haven't been able to train regularly for coming up on 10 months.

Didn't you just dislocate your shoulder or something, holy sh*t that's insane :eek: , would you say life is better not having to worry about lifting and all the perks that come with weightlifting on a day to day basis. Kind of unaware what caused it if you don't mind retelling?

GrokTheCube
02-21-2010, 07:50 PM
Grok what happened with you, why did you need surgery/what caused it to begin with. I messed up my wrist doing heavy reverse curls but just trained legs and all hopefully it would be good enough for me to train chest and shoulders tomorrow إن شاء الله

Vasectomy, actually. Luckily, nothing actually wrong :-D

My rotator cuff has been acting up a bit lately though, so probably not a bad idea to take a little time off to let that heal also. Just sucks not doing any exercise for a month when I'm used to hitting the gym at least 3 days a week, and doing at least a little cardio most other days.

I generally go really light on reverse curls, but I also have a few issues with my hands/wrist to begin with. Crushed a knuckle in my right hand at one point, and also have a calcium deposit on a tendon from a fracture to a metacarpal.