Efficiency ramblings

[Marc27Default]

I have been thinking on the topic of efficiency. I am most certainly NOT efficient. People are either better pullers or better squatter. I am a much better puller than squatter. That is not what being efficient is. I can almost always shoulder weights in the clean that pin me. This usually means that my clean is very similar to my front squat simply because I can shoulder my front squat! This is not efficient though in my opinion. On the other hand neither is squatting 150% of your best clean.

To me efficiency means being able to stand up from ANYTHING that you can clean, but just barely enough to then be able to jerk the weight consistently. (i.e very little reserve leg strength)

I have noticed this slow trend in myself, I started off being able to power clean my best front squat, and power cleaning more than my squat clean (245lb powerclean / 235lb squat clean / 245lb frontsquat). As my leg strength went up a little bit I was finally able to front squat, power clean, and squat clean the same weight (All in the 245-250 area) Now I have just tipped the balance in favor of the front squat. (powerclean 245-255 / 270 squat clean / 280 front squat)

I will assume that one in my situation obviously must become a better front squatter. It is silly to assume that my "efficient" ratios will continue. My front squat will likely have to go up disproportionately to become better at the clean and jerk.

Dreschler mentions in his book that squatting gains tend to outstrip classic lift gains when moving up weight classes. Being long limbed and skinny doesn't make for great squatting but it's not bad for pulling. I can't fix the limbs but I could fix the skinny.

None of this matters though. Lulz you could back squat 300% of your clean and jerk or 50% of your clean and jerk as long as you clean and jerk the heaviest weight! Sorry for the long ramble, I put the one bit that I thought made sense in bold!

[slecontev]

I like what you are saying Marc, especially the first bit

I agree that while squat to clean ratios are useful, particularly when tracked for individual lifters compared to their ratio over time, a low ratio does not necessarily mean that one lifter is more efficient than the other in all respects

I've often thought efficiency in the clean is being able to rack a bar that is pulled to a low height, sufficient strength to stand up and ability to successfully jerk a weight that is driven to a low height

Similarly in the snatch, the ability to pull a heavy weight to a low height relative to a lifter's height, and still be able to fix it overhead

[Marc27Default]

I've often thought efficiency in the clean is being able to rack a bar that is pulled to a low height, sufficient strength to stand up and ability to successfully jerk a weight that is driven to a low height

Similarly in the snatch, the ability to pull a heavy weight to a low height relative to a lifter's height, and still be able to fix it overhead

Thats'a BINGO!

[SquatzAndPuke]

but I could fix the skinny.


This would probably go a long ways towards making you more efficient.

[crackyflipside]

From my own experience having little leg strength relative to classic lifts meant weak core. Once I strengthened my core my ratios went to normal squat levels.

Before I worry about being able to squat out of the bottom or hold my body together so it doesn't fold over like a dead fish in a heavy clean.

Now if it gets pulled high enough and it's in close, it gets lifted... no other worries. Haven't figured out the jerk yet.





This guy is king efficiency even when he missed: Gk8KWmWePRs

[gewaltiger]

what was the best way you went about strengthening your core? beltless squats and such or that + specialised core exercises?

[kardon93]

just careful with ur body brah

[crackyflipside]

what was the best way you went about strengthening your core? beltless squats and such or that + specialised core exercises?

Squat to your max... Twice a day... Then volume...

First month doing that, I was in Russian class watching some cheesy video and I started laughing and my abs completely cramped up and it freaked me out. No direct ab work and my abs were committing suicide right there.

[kardon93]

nice job brah

[ZachOly]

what was the best way you went about strengthening your core? beltless squats and such or that + specialised core exercises?

I find beltless FS for reps of 5-8 destroy my core

Also, these:

http://imgur.com/DHMky.jpg

[gewaltiger]

sweeet. ill try some squats w/o a belt today and see wtf my lower back does.

[CelticTheTruth]

sweeet. ill try some squats w/o a belt today and see wtf my lower back does.

In the past 3 months I haven't used a belt even once. I'm not strong but I managed to do 405 x 8 x 6 x 5 box squats. I'm doing direct ab work, but to me I feel like the snatch is the ultimate core exercise.

[ZachOly]

but I managed to do 405 x 8 x 6 x 5 box squats

wut?

[madaozeki]

wut?

He lives in a universe with many dimensions.

[hazard52003]

wut?

i second this motion. i r confused



but on a more serious note. I agree with marc. I am NOT efficient at all.. right now my max front squat is about 50lbs above my max clean and about 70lbs above my max jerk. my pull has gotten stronger. but still has a long way to go. :|

[ZachOly]

FS @ 170kg

Clean @ 125kg

Efficiency FTW!!!!

[gewaltiger]

best ever f squat: 147kgs
best ever clean: 143kgs

lmao

[CelticTheTruth]

FS @ 170kg

Clean @ 125kg

Efficiency FTW!!!!

what the....?
You must be doing something wrong...

[GoJu]

hmm, I'll play I guess

current best f squat 115kg
current best b squat 130kg
best clean 95kg
best jerk 100kg
best snatch 75kg

weak more than 'efficient' IMO

[gewaltiger]

i just realised im not the only one in the weak legs club :)

[gbg]

Waiting for the man who's middle name is efficiency to post.

[madaozeki]

Waiting for the man who's middle name is efficiency to post.

Who's that?

[GoJu]

the japanese canadian I think, kind of the opposite of the kazak's chinese russians

[gbg]

Who's that?

You know.... :D

[raffiki]

I've been thinking it is a hamstring power vs quad strength issue. Really the weight you can lift in a relatively fast pull can't be completely dependent on a slow squat. Sure the back squat will strengthen the hamstrings, but maybe there is a better way of training their power component that will increase how high you can pull a given weight without an actual increase in the squat.

[Raduriel]

but on a more serious note. I agree with marc. I am NOT efficient at all.. right now my max front squat is about 50lbs above my max clean and about 70lbs above my max jerk. my pull has gotten stronger. but still has a long way to go. :|

I have always found that having a little more power 'in the tank' so to speak helps. It certainly does not hurt, and on those occasions where a minor technical flaw would otherwise cause me to miss a lift, it is nice to be able to power out of it.

[Marc27Default]

I have always found that having a little more power 'in the tank' so to speak helps. It certainly does not hurt, and on those occasions where a minor technical flaw would otherwise cause me to miss a lift, it is nice to be able to power out of it.

Why not just clean a HEAVIER weight, something closer to the front squat. Lol I say if you have "extra" leg strength that means you should just clean more!

[Raduriel]

Why not just clean a HEAVIER weight, something closer to the front squat. Lol I say if you have "extra" leg strength that means you should just clean more!

Not always that simple. Yeah, in a perfect world it would work that way. However, while I am working on improving my clean I can also work on improving my leg strength.

[GoJu]

Why not just clean a HEAVIER weight, something closer to the front squat. Lol I say if you have "extra" leg strength that means you should just clean more!

not necessarily, IMO having a clean 90% means your legs are weak rather than your technique is 'efficient', I know I'm comparing a monster to regular people but take someone like taranenko who had a 300x3 front squat and a 266 clean and jerk, should he have just cleaned more?

[Celtic-Warrior]

ok if one of you were incorportating power cleans into a workout routine, for twice a week, how would you do it. sets, reps and % wise

[ZachOly]

ok if one of you were incorportating power cleans into a workout routine, for twice a week, how would you do it. sets, reps and % wise

I'd work up to my max single, then do a few sets of doubles and triples with about 10kg less