500 cal increase too much for a refeed?

[co1e_train]

Hey guys so I recently changed my diet around due to hitting a plateau due to have cals to low (which have already broken through) and my first refeed on the cal change is tomorrow and am curious if 500 cals is too big of a jump for a refeed.

As of now, on my low days i have 2300 cals, 250g of P, 200g of C and 50g of Fat

As for refeed I have it set for 2800 cals, 210g of P, 385g of C and 45g of Fat.

I lowered my protein take to close to 1lb per lb of BW as suggested by layne norton in his contest prep article here on the site. Layne also talks about lowering fat as well to help minimize any chance of fat storage in adipose tissue during the refeed. Is 45g of fat low enough? Im not really sure.

Anywho, thoughts on the 500 cal spike or the carb spike? Too high? Too low? Just right?

Thanks!

[zmcdole]

I think you'll be fine with that increase in carbs. However, i would lower the fat some more. Maybe instead of taking in 50 grams, you take in 25.

I'm gonna do a refeed tomorrow and I'll add 800 cals worth of carbs (200grams). I'll drop my protein down to 1g/lb and take my fats down from 68g to about 25-30. this has been a pretty good plan for me. So a normal day for me is around 2400 cals, 248 prot, 220 carbs, 68g fat. A refeed day for me is 2800 cals 190 prot, 25-30g fat, and 420 carbs.

[co1e_train]

I think you'll be fine with that increase in carbs. However, i would lower the fat some more. Maybe instead of taking in 50 grams, you take in 25.

I'm gonna do a refeed tomorrow and I'll add 800 cals worth of carbs (200grams). I'll drop my protein down to 1g/lb and take my fats down from 68g to about 25-30. this has been a pretty good plan for me. So a normal day for me is around 2400 cals, 248 prot, 220 carbs, 68g fat. A refeed day for me is 2800 cals 190 prot, 25-30g fat, and 420 carbs.

I gotcha man, so basically your fat is coming from the fats that are already in your protein and carb sources?

[zmcdole]

I gotcha man, so basically your fat is coming from the fats that are already in your protein and carb sources?

Yeah, thats exactly what I do. I normally eat almonds or pb as my direct sources of fat and fill in the rest with the fats from the other things in my diet. I eliminate the direct sources (nuts, pb) and keep the rest. I will continue to take my fish oils though. either way on refeed days my fats are about half of what they would be on a normal day.

[co1e_train]

Yeah, thats exactly what I do. I normally eat almonds or pb as my direct sources of fat and fill in the rest with the fats from the other things in my diet. I eliminate the direct sources (nuts, pb) and keep the rest. I will continue to take my fish oils though. either way on refeed days my fats are about half of what they would be on a normal day.

I see bro,

I just reset my macros to this in attempt to bring down the fat.

cals: 2800, 210 g of P, 420g of C, and 31g of F. Thats a 60-30-10 ratio.

[zmcdole]

That looks like a good plan.

[co1e_train]

That looks like a good plan.

Agreed, if anything drastic happens ill post here.

[co1e_train]

So this is my current macro set


Low day: 2300 cals, 200g of C, 260g of P, 50g of Fat. (35%-45%-20%)

High Day: 2800 cals, 420g of C, 210g of P, 30g of Fat ( 60%-30%-10%)

My BW is 199-200 currently. Would I just lower cals IF weight loss were to stall again before I reach my desired goal and keep ratios the same?

[zmcdole]

Take cals from carbs first. You want to keep your fats as high as possible to keep your hormones in check. You also wanna keep the protein as high as possible since you're in a deficit and its gonna be pretty important in maintaining your muscle.

[co1e_train]

Take cals from carbs first. You want to keep your fats as high as possible to keep your hormones in check. You also wanna keep the protein as high as possible since you're in a deficit and its gonna be pretty important in maintaining your muscle.

Ok cool, I thought thats what one should do first but I just wanted opinion. Id def lower from carbs first, and then probably from protein due to how much im taking in in relation to my BW. I weight 199-200 and have my macro set at 260g of p on my lower cal days so I could probably afford to cut some calories from there as well right? Nothing to drastic and again only if i hit another plateau

[lth]

depends on your metabolism, how lean you are and how far out you are imo, if you're natty or not, etc. Lot of variables. I increase cals from 2700 to around 4500 on refeeds and double my carbs and up my fat pretty considerably. But i'm also a different bodybuilder than you are, tough to say...thats why prep coaches are so valuable.

[zmcdole]

Ok cool, I thought thats what one should do first but I just wanted opinion. Id def lower from carbs first, and then probably from protein due to how much im taking in in relation to my BW. I weight 199-200 and have my macro set at 260g of p on my lower cal days so I could probably afford to cut some calories from there as well right? Nothing to drastic and again only if i hit another plateau

Yeah you could. If I were you I wouldn't cut my protein down any lower than 200grams. Continue to cut from your carbs and if the fat loss stops from cutting out carbs in your diet, then you can just add some more cardio. Add the cardio in small amounts. Just enough to get the fat moving. Slow and steady wins the race.

[co1e_train]

Yeah you could. If I were you I wouldn't cut my protein down any lower than 200grams. Continue to cut from your carbs and if the fat loss stops from cutting out carbs in your diet, then you can just add some more cardio. Add the cardio in small amounts. Just enough to get the fat moving. Slow and steady wins the race.

Yeah, slow and steady is right. I made this post in consequence to having to up cals and macros because i was taking in too few cals and my metabolism just died. However, since I upped everything since the start of the week, I have already lost at least a pound, maybe a pound and a half.

As of now Im going to keep my macros & cals where they are, at 200lbs im right around or just below my maintenance prob and am still losing weight. Until weight lost stalls, ill keep it the same.

Right now my cardio is 4-5 days a week, for 30-40 mins.

[co1e_train]

Hey everyone, OP here, I said I would update after a few week so I am.


Since I made this thread and adjusted my macros, I have gone from 200-196/96lbs in the course of two weeks so I think im right on track.

My new macro ratio I had set is:

Low carb day: Cal-2300, Carb- 200g, Pro.- 258 fat- 50g.
Ratio: 35%-45%-20%

High carb day: Cal- 2800, Carb,- 420g, Pro. 258g, fat - 50g
Ratio- 60%-30%-10%

I go 3 low carb 1 high

However at the end of last week ( like last thursday/friday) I was at 196/97 and today (tuesday 2/23) I am still at that weight. Now I have to use a gym scale and by the time I am able to weigh my self I have had two meals and water so it my weight not be completely accurate with that taken in consideration.

Would I have already hit another stall in weight loss or am I being two impatient? I do cardio 4-5 a week for 30-40 mins (jog/fast walk/ eliptical).

So I guess my question is should I lower cals at all? Lower amount of protien or carbs? Earlier in the thread I mentioned how i felt that the reason my fat loss stalled originally is because my cals were way to low for my size. I have been dieting for about 18 or so weeks and have lost 40 lbs. Im trying to get down to about 190 or so and I guess i am afraid of lowering cals to low to where my metabolism dies again.

What do you guys think I outta do? change it up? or am I being impatient? Add refeed more frequently?

Thanks for the input!

[zmcdole]

Don't be too quick to lower cals. I can tell you that the scale doesn't tell the whole truth. The mirror is your best friend. Several times I have stalled on the scale, but have noticed improvements in the mirror. 2 weeks ago I hit a low of 187 and I woke up this morning at 188. I know that I'm leaner because I've got more cuts and separation in my legs and other places. Your water weight is gonna fluctuate. This will throw you off on the scale. I would use the mirror as my #1 source of feedback on how much progress I'm making. Sure, you're gonna have to make a decision about when you think you should lower the cals, but be sure about it. I've kept my cals significantly higher this time around and I've gotten leaner faster. I think last time I put too much stock in the scale and freaked out when my weight stalled even though there were visible changes (mirror).

I hope that helps you out.

[co1e_train]

Don't be too quick to lower cals. I can tell you that the scale doesn't tell the whole truth. The mirror is your best friend. Several times I have stalled on the scale, but have noticed improvements in the mirror. 2 weeks ago I hit a low of 187 and I woke up this morning at 188. I know that I'm leaner because I've got more cuts and separation in my legs and other places. Your water weight is gonna fluctuate. This will throw you off on the scale. I would use the mirror as my #1 source of feedback on how much progress I'm making. Sure, you're gonna have to make a decision about when you think you should lower the cals, but be sure about it. I've kept my cals significantly higher this time around and I've gotten leaner faster. I think last time I put too much stock in the scale and freaked out when my weight stalled even though there were visible changes (mirror).

I hope that helps you out.

Thanks man it sure does. I feel like im just panicking and jumping the gun to lower cals. For my bw i dont think 2300 is that high.

What about refeeds? My current cycle is low, low, low, High, low low low, so that s 1 every 7 days.

[zmcdole]

Thanks man it sure does. I feel like im just panicking and jumping the gun to lower cals. For my bw i dont think 2300 is that high.

What about refeeds? My current cycle is low, low, low, High, low low low, so that s 1 every 7 days.

You have to be careful. You have to know if you're trying to use an excuse to keep eating so that you don't lower your cals or are you doing it because you need to in order to keep making progress. Only you can make that call. As for refeeds, I started doing two a week when I was about 6 weeks out. At that point I had been dieting for about 18 weeks and was getting pretty lean and changes were slow. Heck, a few times I did some refeeds that weren't scheduled. I might be feeling crappy or be flat as a pancake when I left the gym and I knew that a refeed would be beneficial. Just do what you think your body needs to keep making progress. Dieting is hard and feeling crappy is part of it especially once you start getting really lean and have been dieting for a long time. You just have know if you're feeling sorry for yourself and will use any excuse to eat or if your body really needs the extra cals so that your metabolism isn't completely destroyed.

[co1e_train]

You have to be careful. You have to know if you're trying to use an excuse to keep eating so that you don't lower your cals or are you doing it because you need to in order to keep making progress. Only you can make that call. As for refeeds, I started doing two a week when I was about 6 weeks out. At that point I had been dieting for about 18 weeks and was getting pretty lean and changes were slow. Heck, a few times I did some refeeds that weren't scheduled. I might be feeling crappy or be flat as a pancake when I left the gym and I knew that a refeed would be beneficial. Just do what you think your body needs to keep making progress. Dieting is hard and feeling crappy is part of it especially once you start getting really lean and have been dieting for a long time. You just have know if you're feeling sorry for yourself and will use any excuse to eat or if your body really needs the extra cals so that your metabolism isn't completely destroyed.

I def am not keeping cals high enough so i can keep eating, if anything i would want to lower them to continue to make gains.

I am not preparing for a show neither am I lean enough to the point where gains in fat loss come slow I dont think, ill try to post pics of where I am at tonight( can someone tell me how to do so?) But to give you an approximate of where I am at my upper four abs are coming in nicely.

Will only be dieting at most for a few more weeks, 4 max before I do a clean bulk then cut for a show this summer/fall. I think I am incorporate two refeeds a week here at the end to help out.

How do you guys recommend refeeding 2x a week? have it on set days? Or go like 2 days low, 1 day high?

Thanks again!

[co1e_train]

bump

[zmcdole]

You probably aren't gonna need a refeed twice a week. Once every 5-7 days will do for now. Once you start getting really lean (sub 8%) then a refeed twice a week would be beneficial. I personally do my refeed every leg day. I double my carbs, drop my protein down to about 1g/lb bodyweight, and remove all direct sources of fats. I keep my fish oils though. Thats what I do.

[co1e_train]

You probably aren't gonna need a refeed twice a week. Once every 5-7 days will do for now. Once you start getting really lean (sub 8%) then a refeed twice a week would be beneficial. I personally do my refeed every leg day. I double my carbs, drop my protein down to about 1g/lb bodyweight, and remove all direct sources of fats. I keep my fish oils though. Thats what I do.

Cool man thanks for the input. I wasn't sure when its beneficial to incorporate a second refeed. I wont be cutting for much longer so I decided to do two refeeds this week but ill continue with my 1 high, three low until I am finished cutting because I continue to see results.

Also, my cardio is 4-5 days a week from 30-40 mins consisting of power walk/jog/eliptical. I feel like that is pretty good i would think.