Should I borrow money for equipment?

[BigToddy]

Ok so the majority of it will be going towards higher education but I'm sure I will be tempted to spend it elsewhere. I have about a week to decide whether to borrow about $40,000 for grad school. What do you guys think? Good investment? Too risky?

[animalfan]

education i can see, equipment not so much.

get smart, get a better job, then blow a bunch of money if you want.

[HardKore79]

Education is always a good investment. You already have decent equipment, so I wouldn't even be tempted to get any more.

[Skidmarx]

Sounds like a dumbass move to me

[HardKore79]

Sounds like a dumbass move to mefor equipment?
I believe he's doing good for investing on a higher education.

[Skidmarx]

for equipment?


Of course.

[HardKore79]

Of course.Totally agree!
Stick to what you got OP! Do you mind posting a list of what you have? Maybe whatever you don't have or need, you can pick it up on CL.

[racertomtom]

D. All of the above, except #1

[Accutron]

Grad school yes borrow whatever you need - You can TA and get a lot of money back. Semesters are only 4mos and most grad schools are only at night so you can work during the day like most people do, since they already have a day job.

What do you need equipment wise? - just look around you can get anything for used cheap these days...Under $1,000 for sure you can get a commerical rack and bench...

[Keetman]

Hey Todd, don't you already have a rack, weights, fid, some dumbbells, and a lat pulldown?

What else do you need? You're gonna have your hands full with school and your family......use what you have and concentrate on your education. That debt will be hard enough to pay off......don't add to it to get a sweet gym......not worth it in the long run.

Trust me, my wife just paid off her student loans a couple of years ago and she graduated in 1994. Mind you, we could've paid em off a long time ago, but we let em hang around like a pet.......all to easy to do.

[leonard1]

for equipment? No.

for education? It depends. First - the easy one - you should quantify how much more money you think you will make per year with the grad school education. Then, you can calculate whether investing $40k + interest, plus the money likely lost during grad school, (due to working less than full time) on the loan is a good return on investment. There are various sources you can use for your line of work to see how much on average a higher ed degree pays off in income.

Second - the hard one - will you be happier in you career doing the job for which your grad school education qualifies you? Only you can answer whether this one is worth it.

I would start with the return on investment of step one, then see if your thinking on step 2 pushes the decision one way or the other.

[BigToddy]

Thanks guys. Sorry I should have just came right out and said "should I borrow money for school". I'm not even thinking about equipment right now but this is the equipment forum and so I just framed it like that to get some opinions :D

Anyway, I have about a week to decide whether to borrow the money for grad school. I would be pursuing an MSW which is a Masters in Social Work. I'm really not even sure it's for me. Nevertheless, it's time to make a decision and I'm really indecisive. Originally, I wanted to pursue law school but that's even more debt. In some ways I feel like I'm taking the easy way out by going to grad school but there's nothing easy about it :)

In short, I feel like borrowing the money to go to grad school could be a big mistake.

[yankeemarko1]

Thanks guys. Sorry I should have just came right out and said "should I borrow money for school". I'm not even thinking about equipment right now but this is the equipment forum and so I just framed it like that to get some opinions :D

Anyway, I have about a week to decide whether to borrow the money for grad school. I would be pursuing an MSW which is a Masters in Social Work. I'm really not even sure it's for me. Nevertheless, it's time to make a decision and I'm really indecisive. Originally, I wanted to pursue law school but that's even more debt. In some ways I feel like I'm taking the easy way out by going to grad school but there's nothing easy about it :)

In short, I feel like borrowing the money to go to grad school could be a big mistake.

You already answered your own question. I think you are here looking for validation. Don't bury yourself in debt if you aren't sure it is what you want to do. Figure out what you want to do first.

[smokeater]

Ok so the majority of it will be going towards higher education but I'm sure I will be tempted to spend it elsewhere. I have about a week to decide whether to borrow about $40,000 for grad school. What do you guys think? Good investment? Too risky?

Bad investment. The equipment will devalue over time and the resale value will be probably half (if you're lucky) of what you paid for it. However your education will pay off for the rest of your life and provide a stepping stone to greater success. Of course make sure you're going to grad school for the right reasons and not just for the sake of doing it.

Get your education and continue paying gym dues. Once you're all finished with school, then begin with establishing your home gym.

[Mega_Man]

make sure you're going to grad school for the right reasons and not just for the sake of doing it.



Agreed.

What are you looking to major in? How will this help your career? You need to answer these questions for yourself. Don't waste your time studying something that is going to be irrelevant to your career plans. I have seen many people go to grad school for all the wrong reasons.

[BigToddy]

You already answered your own question. I think you are here looking for validation. Don't bury yourself in debt if you aren't sure it is what you want to do. Figure out what you want to do first.

True. Yeah I guess I'm looking for validation or just other's experiences or opinions. The only problem is I've been trying to figure out what I want to do all my life and I'm 31 now. Everybody tells me now is the time to pursue higher education and that it would be a mistake to let the opportunity pass me by. I mean I had a job offer the other day for $19 an hour which is more money than I've ever made. So my first instinct was to take the job but even the manager of the company said "go to school if you have the chance. It will be harder to go back as you get older and your already 31!"

Anyway I was just trying to get some more opinions. Thanks everyone!

[VoxExMachina]

for equipment? No.

for education? It depends. First - the easy one - you should quantify how much more money you think you will make per year with the grad school education. Then, you can calculate whether investing $40k + interest, plus the money likely lost during grad school, (due to working less than full time) on the loan is a good return on investment. There are various sources you can use for your line of work to see how much on average a higher ed degree pays off in income.

Second - the hard one - will you be happier in you career doing the job for which your grad school education qualifies you? Only you can answer whether this one is worth it.

I would start with the return on investment of step one, then see if your thinking on step 2 pushes the decision one way or the other.

^^ This is good advice. There is no use borrowing $40,000 to get a degree in the philosophy of ancient languages or something and then not be able to find any work in that field, or work that pays no more than you are making now.

My grandfather always said...if you don't have the cash, don't buy it. Other than a house, an education, or a car (if you must), I have always stuck to that.

[Mega_Man]

If you decide to go to grad school, this is what you should do:

-Study real hard
-Get good grades
-Buy workout equipment when you are done with school as a nice reward

This is what I did. Now with my "free time," I post on here and tempt myself as to what other goodies to buy myself. The rewards keep coming! :D

[Kodokan]

You already answered your own question. I think you are here looking for validation. Don't bury yourself in debt if you aren't sure it is what you want to do. Figure out what you want to do first.

Social work isn't usually the kind of career you will be going into for the financial rewards...unless you're passionate about it, you could be setting yourself up for regret. If you have the opportunity to go to grad school you should really think about it seriously...and forget whether you should aquire any more stuff at the moment.

Remember, you NEED a a career/path, and stuff can come and go. IMO its a terrible idea to use loan money on workout equipment anyway.

[Accutron]

True. Yeah I guess I'm looking for validation or just other's experiences or opinions. The only problem is I've been trying to figure out what I want to do all my life and I'm 31 now. Everybody tells me now is the time to pursue higher education and that it would be a mistake to let the opportunity pass me by. I mean I had a job offer the other day for $19 an hour which is more money than I've ever made. So my first instinct was to take the job but even the manager of the company said "go to school if you have the chance. It will be harder to go back as you get older and your already 31!"

Anyway I was just trying to get some more opinions. Thanks everyone!

31 is not old at all, its probably younger than average for a professional masters degree.

Like I said, grad school courses are at night since most grad students have a day job in the field they are studying.

Did you even ask your school what its like there, do you know the conditions? MASc is thesis (non-original material) and a few courses, its not that hard. Even in engineering, its not that more difficult than undergrad, probably easier.

[Accutron]

Originally, I wanted to pursue law school but that's even more debt. In some ways I feel like I'm taking the easy way out by going to grad school but there's nothing easy about it :)


Debt doesnt even matter at all, when you are working after your masters degree the eductional debt is like a business expense, so what if you are paying $250/month if your job pays you $8,000/mo.

Its the cost of doing business...

[4MEandThem]

I would take the money and educate yourself in something more lucrative.

Business Management.
Engineering of almost any kind.
Medical
Law
Biotech

Google the top money makers that interest you and pick from one of them.If your going to gamble on yourself (a good bet)then the pay off should be there........Or marry rich!

[yankeemarko1]

Debt doesnt even matter at all, when you are working after your masters degree the eductional debt is like a business expense, so what if you are paying $250/month if your job pays you $8,000/mo.

Its the cost of doing business...

Big Toddy needs to do what he feels is best for him and his future happiness. But, he isn't going to make $8k month in social work. Not happening.

[BigToddy]

If you have the opportunity to go to grad school you should really think about it seriously...and forget whether you should aquire any more stuff at the moment.Remember, you NEED a a career/path, and stuff can come and go. IMO its a terrible idea to use loan money on workout equipment anyway.

Yeah I've been thinking about it seriously. In fact, I rarely post here anymore I've been so consumed with trying to figure out what I want to do. Some days I don't even check CL anymore :eek:

But yes, equipment is the furthest thing from my mind right now and I wasn't seriously considering using loan money for workout equipment. I really just wanted the advice you guys are giving me now but I figured if I didn't at least mention equipment, you guys would just redirect me to the misc section. What kind of responses do you think I would get there? Probably something like "Don't worry about the debt but forget social work. Get your masters in pornography". :D

[BigToddy]

Big Toddy needs to do what he feels is best for him and his future happiness. But, he isn't going to make $8k month in social work. Not happening.

x2 LOL $8k?!?! Maybe he was referring to law? But then again, my monthly loan payment would not be anywhere near $250 on a law school loan. In fact, even for grad school I figure it will be somewhere around $400 a month. And from what I've heard social workers only start out in the high 30s' to low 40's. I figure I should be able to find a job in that range with my Bachelor's and avoid the $40k in debt but not much luck so far.

[Squeebo]

Going to school and getting an education can be two different things. People go to school because it forces them to learn things, and because there are people there teaching who know a lot about the subjects, and because they get a degree at the end that says they supposedly know a lot of stuff in the given subject. The whole thing is appropriate for certain fields only. For others, you don't learn what you really need to know and end up spending time learning the real stuff afterwards that you could have done to begin with. It bothers me that so many people get lemminged (did I just create a new word?) into going to college just because that's what they're expected to do and get fed lame lines about opportunity. WAKE UP PEOPLE! STOP THE MADNESS! COKE AND PEPSI ARE THE SAME THING!

[ToXvZ]

ty :P

[lemieux66c]

Ok so the majority of it will be going towards higher education but I'm sure I will be tempted to spend it elsewhere. I have about a week to decide whether to borrow about $40,000 for grad school. What do you guys think? Good investment? Too risky?

I just finished up grad school in December. I paid a lot less than you will if you decide to do it - probably about $17,000 or so as I got in-state tuition at the public university - and even now I'm wondering whether or not I should have done it. At least I had the money to avoid taking loans. I think if you are not 100% sure of going back to school the decision to go to school might be a bad one. I was kind of in the same boat as you - trying to decide what I wanted to do with my life and thought going to grad school might help. Granted, it's a bad economy so I haven't found a new job yet, but hopefully I'll be able to get one within the next year, even if it's not in the field that I received my graduate degree in. I hope my next job is one that will pay for me to continue my studies, as I'll probably end up getting an MBA to help strengthen my resume for more managerial positions. In any case, I agree a lot with what Squeebo said.

[VoxExMachina]

Debt doesnt even matter at all, when you are working after your masters degree the eductional debt is like a business expense, so what if you are paying $250/month if your job pays you $8,000/mo.

Its the cost of doing business...

That's not true you lose your job or can't find work. Then the debt definitely matters.

People in this country do not take debt seriously enough, IMO. That's why the economy is in the mess it's in. Guys where I used to work were buying homes, cars, boats, RV's, motorcycles, etc. and counting on overtime, 3rd shift premium pay, and bonuses to cover the loans. They played it so close that the minute one of those sources of pay went away they were upside down.

You can blame the bank for loaning them the money in the first place, but IMO the responsiblity to plan appropriately to meet your debts is yours. Granted, there are many people right now who were responsible and are in trouble anyway, but they are probably only in trouble because of all the irresponsible money management that brought down the system.

[rubenramos2]

Borrowing money for anything is a bad idea. It adds stress to our already stressful lives. What you haven't told us is how much you currently owe, not only student loans but others. I do not have a degree but I do have an education that I got from experience. I have worked since I was 12 yrs old. Since I graduated from high school I have never been without a job. I put my wife through college and paid as she went, same thing with my daughter. I don't borrow money and have no debt. I own several properties and several classic cars. This came as a result of slow and steady saving and investing. My suggestion to you would be, take the job offered. You already have a degree and from what I have seen that piece of paper goes a long way no matter(sometimes) what carreer path you take. Slow and steady!

[HardKore79]

Borrowing money for anything is a bad idea. It adds stress to our already stressful lives. What you haven't told us is how much you currently owe, not only student loans but others. I do not have a degree but I do have an education that I got from experience. I have worked since I was 12 yrs old. Since I graduated from high school I have never been without a job. I put my wife through college and paid as she went, same thing with my daughter. I don't borrow money and have no debt. I own several properties and several classic cars. This came as a result of slow and steady saving and investing. My suggestion to you would be, take the job offered. You already have a degree and from what I have seen that piece of paper goes a long way no matter(sometimes) what carreer path you take. Slow and steady!
Not saying that it's bad, but in this day and age education is VERY important. What he needs to do is figure out if he's going to continue to do what he's doing and take it from there.


High school education only takes you so far nowadays.I'm not saying that nobody has had success even without school, but as we know those people are rare.

[rubenramos2]

Not saying that it's bad, but in this day and age education is VERY important. What he needs to do is figure out if he's going to continue to do what he's doing and take it from there.


High school education only takes you so far nowadays.I'm not saying that nobody has had success even without school, but as we know those people are rare.

Rare? Kinda like Bowflex BB'ers. Lol. Yes, education is very important. We should always seek to further our education but not necessarily in college and certainly not with debt. What I am saying is he can take the job until he decides what he really wants to do and then pay as he went, even if it takes years. He is still young.

[dindysport]

education i can see, equipment not so much.

get smart, get a better job, then blow a bunch of money if you want.

def. with this guy...I would just finish up school and worry about a gym later...Is there not one on campus...

[dindysport]

Thanks guys. Sorry I should have just came right out and said "should I borrow money for school". I'm not even thinking about equipment right now but this is the equipment forum and so I just framed it like that to get some opinions :D

Anyway, I have about a week to decide whether to borrow the money for grad school. I would be pursuing an MSW which is a Masters in Social Work. I'm really not even sure it's for me. Nevertheless, it's time to make a decision and I'm really indecisive. Originally, I wanted to pursue law school but that's even more debt. In some ways I feel like I'm taking the easy way out by going to grad school but there's nothing easy about it :)

In short, I feel like borrowing the money to go to grad school could be a big mistake.

then yes get the money for school...I'm still paying my wifes off but it was well worth it...down to 19K

[Essexlad]

Rare? Kinda like Bowflex BB'ers. Lol. Yes, education is very important. We should always seek to further our education but not necessarily in college and certainly not with debt. What I am saying is he can take the job until he decides what he really wants to do and then pay as he went, even if it takes years. He is still young.

your statements are ridiculous. I'm in substantial debt to go through college. The pay off? I'll have the qualifications to get a job with which I can pay it off with, and earn far more than I could without one. Even though our universitys are cheaper than in the states, I wouldn't be able to go without loan, neither would a vast majority of my piers.

[dindysport]

x2 LOL $8k?!?! Maybe he was referring to law? But then again, my monthly loan payment would not be anywhere near $250 on a law school loan. In fact, even for grad school I figure it will be somewhere around $400 a month. And from what I've heard social workers only start out in the high 30s' to low 40's. I figure I should be able to find a job in that range with my Bachelor's and avoid the $40k in debt but not much luck so far.

most loans you can put off also for a while...and most loans you dont pay while your in school which is also a good thing...sorry for the multiple post guess I should of read all the post first...

[urbanlifter]

It really depends on your situation. If you recently just finished your bachelors degree, then I would say hold off until you have a 3-5 years of experience. I only say this because typically your masters will not get you an instant pay increase or immediately create a promotion for you at work. If you look at most job positions that require a masters degree most of them subsequently require 5+ years experience in addition. However, I do believe it is a great investment and you should ABSOLUTELY do this in the future.

Debt in general, I agree with Ruben here. Someone famous once said (I cant remember thier name), "Debt cheapens the thrills of life." So just make sure if you have to go into more school debt, you do not include your weight equipment in that. Your master will pay for itself in the long run.

[rubenramos2]

yur statements are ridiculous. I'm in substantial debt to go through college. The pay off? I'll have the qualifications to get a job with which I can pay it off with, and earn far more than I could without one. Even though our universitys are cheaper than in the states, I wouldn't be able to go without loan, neither would a vast majority of my piers.

Peers. The only thing you're guaranteed is that you'll have debt when you get out.

[Essexlad]

Peers. The only thing you're guaranteed is that you'll have debt when you get out.

I'm not studying english ;)

True if I sat on my arse nothings going to be handed to me, but having a degree from a decent subject from a good university increases your earning potential significantly. Fact. The average starting salary for someone graduating my course with a 2:1 or higher is 30K+ (GBP), I'd be very lucky to earn 18K without one even after 4 years full employment. True with the current economy it might dip, but it's still a significant chunk more.
If you say people shouldn't get into debt you cut out a massive amount of intelligent, hard working people from poorer socio-economic backgrounds that don't have mummy and daddy to pay for it.

So if I get into debt, and work to increase my earning by a factor of two, and my future potential even further, then thats money well borrowed.

[urbanlifter]

Peers. The only thing you're guaranteed is that you'll have debt when you get out.

You are making assumptions based on personal experience? (Serious question, no offense meant) What you may not understand is that typically people who have a masters degree have higher levels of business intelligence, drive, and ambition. As a result they typically take their careers further and attain the respect and recongnition from their peers. I'm not trashing experience because it is equally important, but the majority of people with only experience will loose a professional job opening to someone who has both. Yeah, having that piece of paper may not be an ABSOLUTE gaurantee set in stone. But people who get their masters are not looking for a gaurantee, half @ss employees who work just hard enough to keep their jobs need those. They are looking for the education and knowledge to better prepare themselves and strive beyond average positons and wages.

[Keetman]

your statements are ridiculous. I'm in substantial debt to go through college. The pay off? I'll have the qualifications to get a job with which I can pay it off with, and earn far more than I could without one. Even though our universitys are cheaper than in the states, I wouldn't be able to go without loan, neither would a vast majority of my piers.



I'm not studying english ;)

True if I sat on my arse nothings going to be handed to me, but having a degree from a decent subject from a good university increases your earning potential significantly. Fact. The average starting salary for someone graduating my course with a 2:1 or higher is 30K+ (GBP), I'd be very lucky to earn 18K without one even after 4 years full employment. True with the current economy it might dip, but it's still a significant chunk more.
If you say people shouldn't get into debt you cut out a massive amount of intelligent, hard working people from poorer socio-economic backgrounds that don't have mummy and daddy to pay for it.

So if I get into debt, and work to increase my earning by a factor of two, and my future potential even further, then thats money well borrowed.





I can't speak for Ruben, but you may be reading too much into his strategy. Debt is a burden that should be taken on only after very serious deliberation, imo. It is simply a form of financial slavery that ties up any cash flow one might have.

In my earlier years, I may not have felt this way, but I have come to the conclusion you shouldn't take on debt for education unless it will really help you get more income in the future. Then, once you land that job....make it a goal to pay it off quickly. Even if I were to go rack up $200k to become a Doctor or Lawyer, I'd personally spend my first few years making money paying it back as quickly as possible. That debt carried over a long period of time takes away from future opportunities.

Students who are poor can work hard, get 2 jobs, and eat a lot of macaroni while they're in school. I'm not saying that to mean "screw them", I mean these are better options than piling on a bunch of debt at a very critical point in their lives. Its certainly not glamorous, but its far smarter and financially safer than putting a $40K weight on your back and pretending you'll pay it off as soon as possible. $40k worth of debt doesn't go away until you make it go away......there are too many toys, vacations, bills, and other stuff that is far more fun to take care of. The $40k can ride indefinitely....and it will always be there going "What's up my bitch....?".



And I'm a guy that was chomping at the bit to git a degree in my late twenties and I LOVE my toys and my vacations.


I'm also debt free except for my house and its a very comforting feeling to know that.

[rubenramos2]

You are making assumptions based on personal experience? (Serious question, no offense meant) What you may not understand is that typically people who have a masters degree have higher levels of business intelligence, drive, and ambition. As a result they typically take their careers further and attain the respect and recongnition from their peers. I'm not trashing experience because it is equally important, but the majority of people with only experience will loose a professional job opening to someone who has both. Yeah, having that piece of paper may not be an ABSOLUTE gaurantee set in stone. But people who get their masters are not looking for a gaurantee, half @ss employees who work just hard enough to keep their jobs need those. They are looking for the education and knowledge to better prepare themselves and strive beyond average positons and wages.

I already mentioned I don't have a degree, so I am not sure what you mean by that question. I agree that average employees will make average wages. I believe 6 figures is not average. You spoke for me just fine, Keetman. I am not against furthering education just against going into debt. Period. If you think you're done learning, you might as well roll over and die. Isn't being debt free sweet?

[urbanlifter]

Meaning, are you assuming this because you know someone who has had their masters and it never benefited them? Or are you assuming this because you have never had a formal education and have been fine without? Being debt free is great, but taking out student loans for education is not until death. It is similair to purchasing a home, its an investment that is not completely gauranteed but many people will agree that it is the right decision in the long run. When you weigh in the time value of money earned by having a masters degree vs the cost of attain said diploma there are no grounds for your assumptions.

I'm not saying one will gaurantee success, but I will surley surpass someone with only experience when competing for a position. The arent too many successful board of directors, CEO's, business owners, ect. that have attained thier position without some degree of formal education. Sure, 20-30 years ago many people could attain excellent jobs with only hands on training. But this is a different day and age, and many baby boomers and retired people are finding this out the hard way. With the economy in the dumps and their 401k's destroyed they are returning to the workforce to find many young candidates have more to offer. Which one do you want to be?

Just saying :)

[Essexlad]

I can't speak for Ruben, but you may be reading too much into his strategy. Debt is a burden that should be taken on only after very serious deliberation, imo. It is simply a form of financial slavery that ties up any cash flow one might have.

In my earlier years, I may not have felt this way, but I have come to the conclusion you shouldn't take on debt for education unless it will really help you get more income in the future. Then, once you land that job....make it a goal to pay it off quickly. Even if I were to go rack up $200k to become a Doctor or Lawyer, I'd personally spend my first few years making money paying it back as quickly as possible. That debt carried over a long period of time takes away from future opportunities.

Students who are poor can work hard, get 2 jobs, and eat a lot of macaroni while they're in school. I'm not saying that to mean "screw them", I mean these are better options than piling on a bunch of debt at a very critical point in their lives. Its certainly not glamorous, but its far smarter and financially safer than putting a $40K weight on your back and pretending you'll pay it off as soon as possible. $40k worth of debt doesn't go away until you make it go away......there are too many toys, vacations, bills, and other stuff that is far more fun to take care of. The $40k can ride indefinitely....and it will always be there going "What's up my bitch....?".



And I'm a guy that was chomping at the bit to git a degree in my late twenties and I LOVE my toys and my vacations.


I'm also debt free except for my house and its a very comforting feeling to know that.

I completely agree with this, I'm just saying that this;


Rare? Kinda like Bowflex BB'ers. Lol. Yes, education is very important. We should always seek to further our education but not necessarily in college and certainly not with debt. What I am saying is he can take the job until he decides what he really wants to do and then pay as he went, even if it takes years. He is still young.

Is a very brash umbrella statement.

I have to be in debt to be at university, sure I would rather not, but there aren't enough hours under the sun for me to work to pay my fees and bills, and maintain my commitment to my course.
So should I not go at all and close off all the oppertunity that comes with it?
If everyone took that attitude, there would be a lot less qualified professionals.

[HardKore79]

Guys, I'm moving this thread to the MISC.







:D

[rubenramos2]

Meaning, are you assuming this because you know someone who has had their masters and it never benefited them? Or are you assuming this because you have never had a formal education and have been fine without? Being debt free is great, but taking out student loans for education is not until death. It is similair to purchasing a home, its an investment that is not completely gauranteed but many people will agree that it is the right decision in the long run. When you weigh in the time value of money earned by having a masters degree vs the cost of attain said diploma there are no grounds for your assumptions.

I'm not saying one will gaurantee success, but I will surley surpass someone with only experience when competing for a position. The arent too many successful board of directors, CEO's, business owners, ect. that have attained thier position without some degree of formal education. Sure, 20-30 years ago many people could attain excellent jobs with only hands on training. But this is a different day and age, and many baby boomers and retired people are finding this out the hard way. With the economy in the dumps and their 401k's destroyed they are returning to the workforce to find many young candidates have more to offer. Which one do you want to be?

Just saying :)

Not to mention all those who lost their homes....as a matter of fact, I do know people who have masters and I outearn them. While they were in school, I was raking it in for those 6-8-10 yrs. I don't have to choose which one I want to be because I took care of business these past twenty years. ;).

[urbanlifter]

Ahh, that explains it. Because you make more money than a couple people you know that have masters, it must be the same everywhere! That is what i was getting at with my questions. Let me break it down for you, while you are raking in that cash for 10 years that masters student is building experience and qualifications for a higher position. Also, based on the previous assumptions you have made, I'm sure those people who you are using as an example arent even in the same industry as you (Not comparable). Sure, you can make great money in construction without an education. But just because you have been making more money for 10 years does not mean they wont catch up and surpass you in the long run. (Very Likely) Now i understand there are exceptions, and you think you are one of them from your post. But do not generalize. Yeah, I made great money at McDonalds for a 19 year old kid ($35k) but what was the long term compared to my same situation with a degree? Do some research on average wages camparing degree holders to non-degree holders with the Bureu of Labor statistics and get back to me.


Now i understand what you are saying about debt being bad. I even mentioned myself that i ageed with you and that, "Debt cheapens the thrills of life". But this still does not change the fact that having your masters is more beneficial to your LONG term career. (Greater than 10 years)

Period.

[kelt_22]

Not to mention all those who lost their homes....as a matter of fact, I do know people who have masters and I outearn them. While they were in school, I was raking it in for those 6-8-10 yrs. I don't have to choose which one I want to be because I took care of business these past twenty years. ;).

you have ignored WHAT people want to do as well. You can not do many things with out a degree. teaching, Science, nursing or any health field really, Law, most Pds and FDs and many many others. If just making money is the goal than you CAN be right (depends on the person and chances they have) but for many things you need one or will be fliping burgers.

most people can do one or the other not both go to school and work.

[rubenramos2]

Ahh, that explains it. Because you make more money than a couple people you know that have masters, it must be the same everywhere! That is what i was getting at with my questions. Let me break it down for you, while you are raking in that cash for 10 years that masters student is building experience and qualifications for a higher position. Also, based on the previous assumptions you have made, I'm sure those people who you are using as an example arent even in the same industry as you (Not comparable). Sure, you can make great money in construction without an education. But just because you have been making more money for 10 years does not mean they wont catch up and surpass you in the long run. (Very Likely) Now i understand there are exceptions, and you think you are one of them from your post. But do not generalize. Yeah, I made great money at McDonalds for a 19 year old kid ($35k) but what was the long term compared to my same situation with a degree? Do some research on average wages camparing degree holders to non-degree holders with the Bureu of Labor statistics and get back to me.


Now i understand what you are saying about debt being bad. I even mentioned myself that i ageed with you and that, "Debt cheapens the thrills of life". But this still does not change the fact that having your masters is more beneficial to your LONG term career. (Greater than 10 years)

Period.

When did this turn into a discussion about having a masters or not? You asked me a queastion and I answered. I never said having a masters was a bad thing. In fact I encourage it. Just do it wisely. FYI, I am not in construction. As far as a student building experience and qualifications, do you think I have been sitting back twittling my thumbs? Yeah you maybe right, some, in time may surpass me, maybe not. By the time that happens I will be ready to retire. I am not na?ve enough to believe that it's the same everywhere. Why don't you try to live a little before you lecture me about life.

[urbanlifter]

When did this turn into a discussion about having a masters or not? You asked me a queastion and I answered. I never said having a masters was a bad thing. In fact I encourage it. Just do it wisely. FYI, I am not in construction. As far as a student building experience and qualifications, do you think I have been sitting back twittling my thumbs? Yeah you maybe right, some, in time may surpass me, maybe not. By the time that happens I will be ready to retire. I am not na?ve enough to believe that it's the same everywhere. Why don't you try to live a little before you lecture me about life.

1) When did it turn into a discussion about having a masters? You do know the first post in this thread was, "Should I go to GRAD school?". What degrees do you think they get in Graduate school? He stated in one of his previous posts that he is pursuing a MASTERS in Social Work. Which leads me to your statement.

2) Your Statement: Peers. "The only thing you're guaranteed is that you'll have debt when you get out." This was the comment i originally responded to, not sound advice for someone looking to further their education. What would you rather him do, wait 20 years and say he has a Masters in experience.

3) I know your not in construction, I was just using it as an example of a career where you can make really good money without a Bachelors or Masters.

4) Are you really going to attack my age? This is often the tactics of a person who can not make a sound argument. It just proves how two people can be on different ends of the learning curve. I'm not trying to lecture you about life, just about college. An area where you are giving advice to someone and have never been. Would you take my advice about taking natural gas measurements knowing I had never worked in your field?

Also, dont talk to me about living. I have a wife, 2 yr old son, bought my own home at 22, have worked multiple jobs for the past 8 years, all while going to college to better my education. Dont assume you know any more than me. Your not that old my friend :)

[urbanlifter]

Figures, a couple of the only two people on this web site who have ever admitted to owning a Bowflex and liking it. Are in a debate with each other over getting the right education. Did I mention I sold mine for free weights? Does this give me the advantage here?

lmao

[rubenramos2]

1) When did it turn into a discussion about having a masters? You do know the first post in this thread was, "Should I go to GRAD school?". What degrees do you think they get in Graduate school? He stated in one of his previous posts that he is pursuing a MASTERS in Social Work. Which leads me to your statement.

2) Your Statement: Peers. "The only thing you're guaranteed is that you'll have debt when you get out." This was the comment i originally responded to, not sound advice for someone looking to further their education. What would you rather him do, wait 20 years and say he has a Masters in experience.

3) I know your not in construction, I was just using it as an example of a career where you can make really good money without a Bachelors or Masters.

4) Are you really going to attack my age? This is often the tactics of a person who can not make a sound argument. It just proves how two people can be on different ends of the learning curve. I'm not trying to lecture you about life, just about college. An area where you are giving advice to someone and have never been. Would you take my advice about taking natural gas measurements knowing I had never worked in your field?

Also, dont talk to me about living. I have a wife, 2 yr old son, bought my own home at 22, have worked multiple jobs for the past 8 years, all while going to college to better my education. Dont assume you know any more than me. Your not that old my friend :)

Go read the op again.
Can you guarantee him a job when he graduates?

I have kids in college I figure that qualifies me to make assumptions.

He can borrow 100k for all I care. When he is 45 and still making payments, he will regret it.

Men who can "do" the others make excuses.

[Keetman]

Figures, a couple of the only two people on this web site who have ever admitted to owning a Bowflex and liking it. Are in a debate with each other over getting the right education. Did I mention I sold mine for free weights? Does this give me the advantage here?

lmao



I was torn on who was winning the argument. But after this post, I'll have to give the advantage to Urban.



;)

[urbanlifter]

Go read the op again.
Can you guarantee him a job when he graduates?

I have kids in college I figure that qualifies me to make assumptions.

He can borrow 100k for all I care. When he is 45 and still making payments, he will regret it.

Men who can "do" the others make excuses.


Pointless Ruben! As for the assumptions: My daddy is a car salesman, I guess that makes me an authority on cars!

PEACE

[rubenramos2]

I figured it was, but thought I'd try. Good debate. Keetman, I think you're showing partiality. OP, good luck with you're decision. In the end this will affect you the rest of your life whatever you do.

[HardKore79]

Down with the bowflex!!!




Oh sorry! Thought it was the bowflex thread! :D

[HardKore79]

Urban, you had some good points that deserve some skittles. Watch out for them. They could be either green or red skittles. :D

[BigToddy]

Wow! There has been some debate in here since I last signed in :D Thanks everyone! If anybody wants to contribute to the last thread I created, please feel free :D

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=117018991

[Keetman]

I figured it was, but thought I'd try. Good debate. Keetman, I think you're showing partiality. OP, good luck with you're decision. In the end this will affect you the rest of your life whatever you do.



Well, I hate debt and I value an education. I believe its an American past time nowadays to live beyond your means and whether or not one racked up a bunch of debt in college or not won't mean much to many if you're paying it off when you're 50. I know people who got zero government or parental assistance and made it through grad school with very little debt. One friend I know got his degrees from Ohio State and now hires Doctors for a local hospital......not a bad gig. Everybody has to walk their own path and education is very important. I'm just at a place now where I believe one should think long and hard about where a large loan for education is going to take them. Just throwing money at a school won't make you successful, but I agree education (along with skills) will take you much farther in today's world.

I have a degree and I don't use it, but it was important for me to get it at the time....now I may never use it....hard to say. I wish I'd chosen a different major though, because I could have been right where I am career wise, and making extra money part-time in another field........that's what I mean about thinking things through. Luckily, I didn't acrue any debt earning my degree.



And just for the record........just because I have come to the conclusion that a bowflex is overhyped and overpriced does not mean that I'm not a reasonable or impartial person. ;)

[Wildtim]

I have a degree and I don't use it, but it was important for me to get it at the time....now I may never use it....hard to say. I wish I'd chosen a different major though, because I could have been right where I am career wise, and making extra money part-time in another field........that's what I mean about thinking things through. Luckily, I didn't acrue any debt earning my degree.


This is me in a nutshell.

It wasn't worth going to school for the degree I got. Had I been wiser then I would have gotten a different one and it would have been well worth it.

As far as needing education in today's world. While the odds of ever using it on the jab are nil for some reason most jobs want a degree. and many want an advanced one at that. My recently retired father for instance got his job 40 years ago with the certificate from a correspondence course. When he retired you needed a masters and experience to get the same position. It doesn't make any sens to me but......thats the way the world has changed.

[rubenramos2]

I would hate to see the op rack up a bunch of debt and then decide it's not what he wanted to do long term. Try the waters man!

[urbanlifter]

I figured it was, but thought I'd try. Good debate. Keetman, I think you're showing partiality. OP, good luck with you're decision. In the end this will affect you the rest of your life whatever you do.

^^ Agreed ^^

Good debate, hopefully the OP has extracted some good information from our discussion.

[BigToddy]

^^ Agreed ^^

Good debate, hopefully the OP has extracted some good information from our discussion.

Definitely. Thanks everyone. This is a really big decision for me and I've been pretty conflicted about it. I have a good amount of bad debt now (about $20k) from living off of credit during my undergrad years. I'd really like to get a handle on that first or at least know with some level of confidence that I'm going to be able to live comfortably and get my debt under control after I graduate.

I also feel like I'm a little more passionate about law as opposed to social work. And I had a 3.8 gpa in undergrad so I thought I might have a good shot at scholarships and/or grants. It just seems like I have better options than borrowing 40k for grad school. For instance, I might be able to hold out until next year and possibly get a scholarship to law school.

[urbanlifter]

Wherever you decide to work make sure you check their policies on continuing education. You never know, depending on the company they may end up paying for your Masters. Once i'm finished here in October (Bachelors in Business and Administration, Major in Finance) I plan on applying for local college positions in the finance / financial aid department and getting my Masters for free. Some Universities allow all employees, spouses, and their children to attend the college free of charge!

[BigToddy]

Wherever you decide to work make sure you check their policies on continuing education. You never know, depending on the company they may end up paying for your Masters. Once i'm finished here in October (Bachelors in Business and Administration, Major in Finance) I plan on applying for local college positions in the finance / financial aid department and getting my Masters for free. Some Universities allow all employees, spouses, and their children to attend the college free of charge!

Thanks. That's definitely been on my mind too (the fact that many employers will pay for your schooling). I'm still really torn about what to do. I think I would enjoy social work but I want to be financially stable and I'm not so sure that I will be working in that field.

I'm really considering just deferring my admission to grad school and taking an LSAT class in August. If I don't at least try to get into law school, I think I will end up regretting it for the rest of my life.

[Wildtim]

If you can get in social work is very stable. It's a government job. That means it's basically underpaid but with great bennies and possibly even a good old fashioned pension plan instead of a 401K. The biggest drawback is high emotional stress generally having to deal with a pointlesss and arbitrary system that doesn't serve anyone well as a part of your daily life, plus the fact that in public service jobs it is usually the ass kissing idiot who is put in charge. Thought if you can get in with your BS and certification the will pay you to get a MS and give you a raise for having it though your job actually won't change.

[Keetman]

If you can get in social work is very stable. It's a government job. That means it's basically underpaid but with great bennies and possibly even a good old fashioned pension plan instead of a 401K. The biggest drawback is high emotional stress generally having to deal with a pointlesss and arbitrary system that doesn't serve anyone well as a part of your daily life, plus the fact that in public service jobs it is usually the ass kissing idiot who is put in charge. Thought if you can get in with your BS and certification the will pay you to get a MS and give you a raise for having it though your job actually won't change.



Wow, this is an inspiring picture you paint Tim. Makes me want to dive right in :D

[Wildtim]

Well my best friends mom was a social worker growing up.

The downsides go for most any govt job though the emotional toll is very high in social work, you do have to be the right person to thrive in it.

Besides it ain't school any more time to face the real world.

[rubenramos2]

Well my best friends mom was a social worker growing up.

The downsides go for most any govt job though the emotional toll is very high in social work, you do have to be the right person to thrive in it.

Besides it ain't school any more time to face the real world.

If you want to get beat down, work for the gov't. Those are some of the unhappiest people I have ever seen. Or is it just in my area?

[Wildtim]

For many of them I have met it is similar, they seem to let lthe job really define their life.

If there is one thing in my life I have learned, and its been a hard lesson to learn and just as hard to constantly live, its that you must define yourself not let your job or your boss define you.

[Hortonized]

Take the $40 grit and invest into your education (should that be the path your led) Don't spend gobs of loot on equipment. Exercise equipment can always be found. Start scouring www.craigslist.org in your area. Sometimes I read people saying, "get this crap out of here" Like this morning, this guy was selling a bench with weights for $90.00. His stated in his ad that his skinny wife bought her out-of-shape husband the weight bench and he uses it as much as a bald man uses a hair dryer. lol. I got a good chuckle out of it. But the point being - ultimately use the $$ for college and maybe a few hundred for a good find off CL. Best of luck in your equipment search and college.



Ok so the majority of it will be going towards higher education but I'm sure I will be tempted to spend it elsewhere. I have about a week to decide whether to borrow about $40,000 for grad school. What do you guys think? Good investment? Too risky?

[Hortonized]

lol ruben,
that is anywhere in the country. You should see the guy at my local post office. Top guy in the building and can tell he is just plain miserable. I couldn't picture being in a position like that for 30+ years. Good grief.


If you want to get beat down, work for the gov't. Those are some of the unhappiest people I have ever seen. Or is it just in my area?

[animalfan]

lol ruben,
that is anywhere in the country. You should see the guy at my local post office. Top guy in the building and can tell he is just plain miserable. I couldn't picture being in a position like that for 30+ years. Good grief.

honestly, most people i see that have been on a job for around 30 are miserable.

[Keetman]

honestly, most people i see that have been on a job for around 30 are miserable.



Yea, I got one of those government jobs and while I doubt I'll ever be miserable.......it lost its enchantment some time ago. Sometime in my late 20's I realized what I was getting paid for and it wasn't to be a hero. I'm alright with that now, but it took a little transitioning. Now its a job and I look at it like that. I think few people love their jobs, but I certainly like a lot about mine. Mostly I get paid fairly for what I do and I can take a month off if I want and nobody cares!

As long as there are other things to take away from it at the end of the day, if not loving your job is the worst thing you have to face........you're doing all right.

[animalfan]

Yea, I got one of those government jobs and while I doubt I'll ever be miserable.......it lost its enchantment some time ago. Sometime in my late 20's I realized what I was getting paid for and it wasn't to be a hero. I'm alright with that now, but it took a little transitioning. Now its a job and I look at it like that. I think few people love their jobs, but I certainly like a lot about mine. Mostly I get paid fairly for what I do and I can take a month off if I want and nobody cares!

As long as there are other things to take away from it at the end of the day, if not loving your job is the worst thing you have to face........you're doing all right.

the other thing is people who don't have anything going on outside of work. they only ever talk about work, the people at work, never anything else. i feel sorry for these people.

i've never been one to take work home with me, i have always just done my job and left it at that. i know i have a different kind of job than we are talking about, though.

[Accutron]

the other thing is people who don't have anything going on outside of work. they only ever talk about work, the people at work, never anything else. i feel sorry for these people.

i've never been one to take work home with me, i have always just done my job and left it at that. i know i have a different kind of job than we are talking about, though.

+1, they dont have the equipment crew, meets to prep for, plates to collect, all fun stuff like that :)

[animalfan]

+1, they dont have the equipment crew, meets to prep for, plates to collect, all fun stuff like that :)

well, it all starts with the crew. everything else is just fluff.

[DesertSider]

Workout equipment = much better investment than college IMO. As a college graduate, I think college is overrated.

However, if you go to college there will be plenty of gyms and equipment for you to use.

[Keetman]

+1, they dont have the equipment crew, meets to prep for, plates to collect, all fun stuff like that :)



You know, I have a lot of fun with this equipment stuff. If there was a practical way for me to do it for a living I would love my job. I'm sure overtime it to would loose its shine, but I really do enjoy it.

Besides, honestly, the best profession is to be employed for yourself. I have a very small part time service business and when I'm out doing jobs it is nothing like working for the man. I make TONS more per hour (than even my government job), nobody tells me what to do, and if I want to just say f-it and go fishing the day is officially over.

[animalfan]

You know, I have a lot of fun with this equipment stuff. If there was a practical way for me to do it for a living I would love my job. I'm sure overtime it to would loose its shine, but I really do enjoy it.

Besides, honestly, the best profession is to be employed for yourself. I have a very small part time service business and when I'm out doing jobs it is nothing like working for the man. I make TONS more per hour (than even my government job), nobody tells me what to do, and if I want to just say f-it and go fishing the day is officially over.

i have alot of fun with it too. if i put a little more time into searching and stuff i could probably do ok, but not enough to make a living with it.

i need to start a real business so i can be my own boss. not like i'm doing much right now, anyway:)

[rubenramos2]

Workout equipment = much better investment than college IMO. As a college graduate, I think college is overrated.

However, if you go to college there will be plenty of gyms and equipment for you to use.
As long as you don't spend 40 or 50k on equipment like some do on college, I am ok with that. College is overrated. You're just paying someone to teach you what you can learn by experience, but there are jobs and employers who require a degree.

[johnderriLLL]

hmm when i had sallie mae i got tax credits for taking out loans on school. thats the only good thing i can say.