View Full Version : the weird things our bodies do
chodan9
06-10-2009, 06:52 AM
3 weeks ago I ramped up my cardio so that I could start shedding a bit more bodyfat.
I am keeping my diet very steady also so I know exactly what is coming in each day.
I was getting 3-4 hours of moderate paced cardio a week and I have been experimenting with running. I was stalled at 193 pounds and had been for weeks.
well early last week I started having pain in my left shin. It wasn't going away, so late last week I stopped doing my cardio because of the pain while doing it (tread mill and elliptical)
I am still doing my weight training though.
well since then I have all the sudden dropped 5 pounds since thursday morning 193.5 then and 188.5 this morning.
You would think the absence of cardio would have the opposite effect, I guess its just changing things up or something. I am a little alarmed though as it is more weight than I wanted to lose in that period of time.
psychowolverine
06-10-2009, 06:58 AM
ive been doing a fair amount of cardio since coming off my injury, but I have been lifting real hard and have not seen a drop on the scale
grace_ou
06-10-2009, 07:06 AM
3 weeks ago I ramped up my cardio so that I could start shedding a bit more bodyfat.
I am keeping my diet very steady also so I know exactly what is coming in each day.
I was getting 3-4 hours of moderate paced cardio a week and I have been experimenting with running. I was stalled at 193 pounds and had been for weeks.
well early last week I started having pain in my left shin. It wasn't going away, so late last week I stopped doing my cardio because of the pain while doing it (tread mill and elliptical)
I am still doing my weight training though.
well since then I have all the sudden dropped 5 pounds since thursday morning 193.5 then and 188.5 this morning.
You would think the absence of cardio would have the opposite effect, I guess its just changing things up or something. I am a little alarmed though as it is more weight than I wanted to lose in that period of time.
Sometime this is a result of having to great a a deficit between the cals your burning and the cals your takin. So your body stresses and your matbolism slows down. When you cahnge something like dropping the cardio then your bodies not as stressed and and your metbolism kicks back to normal,, it now feels it's at a normal cal. def to let go of bf.
I've done this tons of times when training for a race..
Like I eat 1500 and run 10 miles a day no weightloss the difference between what I'm eating and burning is to great.. however eat 1500 cals run 5 miles a day and I drop weight. Now if that difference was even bigger I would start to burn muscle.
ive been doing a fair amount of cardio since coming off my injury, but I have been lifting real hard and have not seen a drop on the scale
Ideally, this is what we'd want to happen if we're in excellent condition.
Chodan, we sometimes break through the "wall" at what seems to be the most illogical times. I have been disappointed that my efforts weren't working to lose weight, and then said "screw it!" and pigged out on the worst junk food you can imagine, only to awaken 2 days later and find I broke through the wall. But if you look deeper into that example, it's the power of cheat meals/days and/or refeeds that can accomplish this. In your case, you may have jarred your system, so to speak, but rest assured it was likely a combination of the cardio you had done, and the diet involved around the subsequent days of stopping it.
salatheel
06-10-2009, 07:15 AM
3 weeks ago I ramped up my cardio so that I could start shedding a bit more bodyfat.
I am keeping my diet very steady also so I know exactly what is coming in each day.
I was getting 3-4 hours of moderate paced cardio a week and I have been experimenting with running. I was stalled at 193 pounds and had been for weeks.
well early last week I started having pain in my left shin. It wasn't going away, so late last week I stopped doing my cardio because of the pain while doing it (tread mill and elliptical)
I am still doing my weight training though.
well since then I have all the sudden dropped 5 pounds since thursday morning 193.5 then and 188.5 this morning.
You would think the absence of cardio would have the opposite effect, I guess its just changing things up or something. I am a little alarmed though as it is more weight than I wanted to lose in that period of time.
I have noticed strange things like that too. I weigh in every Saturday morning. Two weeks ago I cut calories significantly same pace as usual cardio and workouts. Weighed in gained a pound? WTF? Next week I loosend up the diet kept everything else the same and lost 2 pounds. It is weird how your body reacts sometimes.
chodan9
06-10-2009, 07:33 AM
Sometime this is a result of having to great a a deficit between the cals your burning and the cals your takin. So your body stresses and your matbolism slows down. When you cahnge something like dropping the cardio then your bodies not as stressed and and your metbolism kicks back to normal,, it now feels it's at a normal cal. def to let go of bf.
I've done this tons of times when training for a race..
Like I eat 1500 and run 10 miles a day no weightloss the difference between what I'm eating and burning is to great.. however eat 1500 cals run 5 miles a day and I drop weight. Now if that difference was even bigger I would start to burn muscle.
that makes a lot of sense.
chodan9
06-10-2009, 07:35 AM
Ideally, this is what we'd want to happen if we're in excellent condition.
Chodan, we sometimes break through the "wall" at what seems to be the most illogical times. I have been disappointed that my efforts weren't working to lose weight, and then said "screw it!" and pigged out on the worst junk food you can imagine, only to awaken 2 days later and find I broke through the wall. But if you look deeper into that example, it's the power of cheat meals/days and/or refeeds that can accomplish this. In your case, you may have jarred your system, so to speak, but rest assured it was likely a combination of the cardio you had done, and the diet involved around the subsequent days of stopping it.
I was actually enjoying the little runs I was doing at the time and hope I can continue them. I have never ran... ever, and was suprised how far I could go. I have been lurking a little in your runners thread I must admit heh heh.
But as soon as my shin stops hurting I may try irunning again. Ease myself into it.
jscan1
06-10-2009, 07:43 AM
OP you describe exactly what I have been going through, I was dieting too hard so I added 500 calories to my daily and seem to be dropping weight again. I was starting to run and do HIIT on treadmill and everytime would bring the tread above 7mph my shins would just be killing me.....What I realized is the combo of the speed and a decent incline (about 7) was the cause, So I dropped the incline to flat and all seems better
chodan9
06-10-2009, 07:49 AM
What I realized is the combo of the speed and a decent incline (about 7) was the cause, So I dropped the incline to flat and all seems better
I'll have to look at that.
Thanks
I should say I tried running a little a long time ago, but stopped after about 100 yeards, my back wasn't up to it at that time.
Now my back is pretty much up for anything within reason.
I'll have to look at that.
Thanks
I should say I tried running a little a long time ago, but stopped after about 100 yeards, my back wasn't up to it at that time.
Now my back is pretty much up for anything within reason.
When you first start running it is somewhat common for you to feel discomfort in your lower back. It may sound funny, but you kinda have to learn how to run. It's not much different from learning how to deadlift properly; anyone can deadlift, but you have to learn correct form. I still have to remember this when running, but I'm getting there, and I seldom ever have a sore lower back anymore.
DaddyR
06-10-2009, 08:17 AM
High Cortisol levels from going overboard on the Cardio were most likely causing you to hold onto fat.
That's why you see some folks who will consistently say diet is the thing to tweak. If you're as intense as I usually am, you're most likely always flirting with overtraining, and there's nothing like overtraining to mess you up royally!
chodan9
06-10-2009, 09:22 AM
High Cortisol levels from going overboard on the Cardio were most likely causing you to hold onto fat.
That's why you see some folks who will consistently say diet is the thing to tweak. If you're as intense as I usually am, you're most likely always flirting with overtraining, and there's nothing like overtraining to mess you up royally!
possibly
I train 5 days a week and with a good amount of volume and intensity. I get a little overenthusiastic some times because I can't beleive I am doing the things I can do now.
I have gotten better at reading my body but I still can run myself down if not careful
JOHN GARGANI
06-10-2009, 12:57 PM
Chodan, we sometimes break through the "wall" at what seems to be the most illogical times. I have been disappointed that my efforts weren't working to lose weight, and then said "screw it!" and pigged out on the worst junk food you can imagine, only to awaken 2 days later and find I broke through the wall. But if you look deeper into that example, it's the power of cheat meals/days and/or refeeds that can accomplish this. In your case, you may have jarred your system, so to speak, but rest assured it was likely a combination of the cardio you had done, and the diet involved around the subsequent days of stopping it.
oh man, this is just SOOOO good....a great job of summing it up, DB!!!!!!
afterguard
06-11-2009, 07:35 AM
Interesting thread.....I've had times where I thought WTF? Cardio/diet=gain? cheat meal=lose?.....I'm wondering after reading Chodan's post if there is any benefit to cycling Cardio? I always try to change my Cardio up, but I've never tried doing Cardio one week and off the next.........
Interesting thread.....I've had times where I thought WTF? Cardio/diet=gain? cheat meal=lose?.....I'm wondering after reading Chodan's post if there is any benefit to cycling Cardio? I always try to change my Cardio up, but I've never tried doing Cardio one week and off the next.........
Try doing it just like you might carb cycle.
I've noticed my body doing weird things as well...like growing hair out of my ears. What's up with that?
Rogerthat
06-11-2009, 07:43 AM
I have lost over 80 lbs really without the use of cardio per se. I found cardio put a lot of stress on my joints and made my muscles look flat. (Now if I ever want to get to 5% bf then I am sure I will have to incorporate some form of steady state or HITT cardio although I am not fully convinced of this either) Working out with weights intensely where I get my heart rate up and being strict in my diet have got me here. Whenever I hit a plateau I just adjust food intake as DBX has posted and it has worked wonders.
kimm4
06-11-2009, 07:46 AM
I haven't done any cardio in over a year. (I've been on a slow bulk for just as long) This is the 1st time in 20 yrs that I haven't done any form of cardio.
I am 7lbs heavier and leaner than I was last year.
It's all about the diet...
I haven't done any cardio in over a year. (I've been on a slow bulk for just as long) This is the 1st time in 20 yrs that I haven't done any form of cardio.
I am 7lbs heavier and leaner than I was last year.
It's all about the diet...
I too continue to drop body fat despite laying off the cardio. As Kim says, it's about making sure you burn more calories then you ingest....and cardio is not necessary for that.
kimm4
06-11-2009, 08:18 AM
I too continue to drop body fat despite laying off the cardio. As Kim says, it's about making sure you burn more calories then you ingest....and cardio is not necessary for that.
Correct. Keep in mind the more muscle you build you're naturally boosting your metabolism to work harder...sounds good to me :)
Correct. Keep in mind the more muscle you build you're naturally boosting your metabolism to work harder...sounds good to me :)
Ah, but lets not get carried away with the "additional muscle boosts metabolism" either :). It is all but negligible in reality.
But yeah, diet is always king. It's just that cheaters like me [u]have[/i] to do cardio to atone for our sins :D. If I ever get down to the "base" I desire, I'm sure I'll be able to do less cardio. However, I have a long way to go!
And Rogerthat; sure, you lost 80lbs without cardio, but don't fool yourself. You were very overweight to begin with, so some lifting and diet alone will work well...for a while. But because you're now paring down to bf% levels that you may have not seen for years (if at all), I can all but assure you that will need to do cardio to accomplish your goals. Kim has been at this a lot longer, and it's easier (not taking anything from her ;)) for her to maintain by diet alone. I'm just saying...don't think you can do the same at this point in your progress.
kimm4
06-11-2009, 08:41 AM
Ah, but lets not get carried away with the "additional muscle boosts metabolism" either :). It is all but negligible in reality.
But yeah, diet is always king. It's just that cheaters like me [u]have[/i] to do cardio to atone for our sins :D. If I ever get down to the "base" I desire, I'm sure I'll be able to do less cardio. However, I have a long way to go!
And Rogerthat; sure, you lost 80lbs without cardio, but don't fool yourself. You were very overweight to begin with, so some lifting and diet alone will work well...for a while. But because you're now paring down to bf% levels that you may have not seen for years (if at all), I can all but assure you that will need to do cardio to accomplish your goals. Kim has been at this a lot longer, and it's easier (not taking anything from her ;)) for her to maintain by diet alone. I'm just saying...don't think you can do the same at this point in your progress.
DBX, I'm actually glad you said this. Yes, I feel that is much easier for me to maintain my "look" because I've been at it for so long. So with years of working hard and adding quality muscle don't you think that makes a difference with the way my metabolism works?
I guess that's what I mean when I say your metabolism works harder...am I making any sense?
kimm4
06-11-2009, 08:46 AM
Oh and as soon I hit contest prep...my cardio will be starting up again...so yes...cardio has a place in everyone's program.
But it was fun while it lasted ;)
DBX, I'm actually glad you said this. Yes, I feel that is much easier for me to maintain my "look" because I've been at it for so long. So with years of working hard and adding quality muscle don't you think that makes a difference with the way my metabolism works?
I guess that's what I mean when I say your metabolism works harder...am I making any sense?
I understand what you mean, but I need to find a study I recently read...somewhere, damn it...that explains that additional LBM boosting metabolism/burning cals is akin to something like drinking cold water over room temp water. In other words, it may as well be a myth because the amount is so negligible. But by God, you're doing something right ;).
I'll see if I can find it.
kimm4
06-11-2009, 09:09 AM
I understand what you mean, but I need to find a study I recently read...somewhere, damn it...that explains that additional LBM boosting metabolism/burning cals is akin to something like drinking cold water over room temp water. In other words, it may as well be a myth because the amount is so negligible. But by God, you're doing something right ;).
I'll see if I can find it.
Cool I would def enjoy that read if you can find it Thanks!
LOL...it's taken me a long time to figure out what the hell I'm doing trust me...;)
Cool I would def enjoy that read if you can find it Thanks!
LOL...it's taken me a long time to figure out what the hell I'm doing trust me...;)
PM sent ;)
Rogerthat
06-11-2009, 09:33 AM
And Rogerthat; sure, you lost 80lbs without cardio, but don't fool yourself. You were very overweight to begin with, so some lifting and diet alone will work well...for a while. But because you're now paring down to bf% levels that you may have not seen for years (if at all), I can all but assure you that will need to do cardio to accomplish your goals. Kim has been at this a lot longer, and it's easier (not taking anything from her ;)) for her to maintain by diet alone. I'm just saying...don't think you can do the same at this point in your progress.
Yeah, I know you are right. I was getting all "know-it-all" and cocky and haven't really accomplished much as far as true bodybuilding goes. (Went to my head for a second, you brought me back down) I am going to try and get as low b/f as I can w/o cardio (I shouldn't really say no cardio because my heart does stay somewhat constant while weight training)
Yeah, I know you are right. I was getting all "know-it-all" and cocky and haven't really accomplished much as far as true bodybuilding goes. (Went to my head for a second, you brought me back down) I am going to try and get as low b/f as I can w/o cardio (I shouldn't really say no cardio because my heart does stay somewhat constant while weight training)
Damn, man, I wasn't trying to bring you down, lol. You should be damn proud of what you've accomplished so far. 80lbs is 80lbs no matter how you weight it! I only interjected because I wanted to distinguish what the difference might be between people of varying experience.
boodog
06-11-2009, 09:59 AM
My weight jumps all over the place...for no apparent reason....I try to go back to the 5 or 6 small meals a day...high protein...and only complex carbs.. Works for me...If I screw up and eat too much (usually at night) I try to burn it off the next day....Body Building is a humbling experience..
Klayfish
06-11-2009, 10:11 AM
Since I've joined this site, I've learned a ton of things. But the one thing my feeble mind still is having a tough time wrapping it's arms around is cardio and the role it plays. So I just keep trying to read more and more, and it can get confusing.
If I'm reading this thread right, doing high levels of cardio, can cause the body to go into conservation mode and slow metabolism down. It will also cause the body to burn muscle because in conservation mode, it's holding onto body fat. Correct? When doing sprints on the treadmill, and limiting the number of times per week you run, the body comes out of conservation and can therefore burn more and burn body fat? When pushing to lose fat and build muscle, too much cardio can be counterproductive, right? If I'm doing more sprint than long distance running, I don't need to alter my diet (40/30/30 split), correct?
I'm seeing that 5 miles is a vague "line in the sand" between short and long runs?
Sorry for the multiple questions, and repeats, but this cardio thing is tought to grasp.
OP, by the way, I can give you some advice on the running. I have a lot of shin splint issues myself. I started running on a treadmill (I had been walking for years) in Oct. '07. The first time I ran, I literally went for 90 seconds. I slowly built it up, trying to run an extra 3-5 seconds each time. If I started with shin splints, I backed down to previous levels for a while. NO INCLINES...they hurt...bad. I usually do 33 minutes on the treadmill, including warm up and cool down, so I'm running about 29 minutes of that time, with no troubles. I could go longer, but stop just because I need to get to work. Keep at it, but take the progress slowly.
Since I've joined this site, I've learned a ton of things. But the one thing my feeble mind still is having a tough time wrapping it's arms around is cardio and the role it plays. So I just keep trying to read more and more, and it can get confusing.
If I'm reading this thread right, doing high levels of cardio, can cause the body to go into conservation mode and slow metabolism down. It will also cause the body to burn muscle because in conservation mode, it's holding onto body fat. Correct? When doing sprints on the treadmill, and limiting the number of times per week you run, the body comes out of conservation and can therefore burn more and burn body fat? When pushing to lose fat and build muscle, too much cardio can be counterproductive, right? If I'm doing more sprint than long distance running, I don't need to alter my diet (40/30/30 split), correct?
I'm seeing that 5 miles is a vague "line in the sand" between short and long runs?
Sorry for the multiple questions, and repeats, but this cardio thing is tought to grasp.
OP, by the way, I can give you some advice on the running. I have a lot of shin splint issues myself. I started running on a treadmill (I had been walking for years) in Oct. '07. The first time I ran, I literally went for 90 seconds. I slowly built it up, trying to run an extra 3-5 seconds each time. If I started with shin splints, I backed down to previous levels for a while. NO INCLINES...they hurt...bad. I usually do 33 minutes on the treadmill, including warm up and cool down, so I'm running about 29 minutes of that time, with no troubles. I could go longer, but stop just because I need to get to work. Keep at it, but take the progress slowly.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=342308441&postcount=16
EggSuckingLeech
06-11-2009, 10:45 AM
funny tho... here in the "Over 35" group, I actually value cardio more than I ever have before. It strengthens my heart and lungs and helps my endurance which is beneficial with every day life. I am a fitter person for having doing it. So there is absolutely benefit for doing cardio. Is it necessary for body fat loss? No - not if you want to tweak your diet. But imo, cardio affords me a more comfortable diet as well as gives me benefits well beyond body fat loss.
So in my book, cardio is all good man...
funny tho... here in the "Over 35" group, I actually value cardio more than I ever have before. It strengthens my heart and lungs and helps my endurance which is beneficial with every day life. I am a fitter person for having doing it. So there is absolutely benefit for doing cardio. Is it necessary for body fat loss? No - not if you want to tweak your diet. But imo, cardio affords me a more comfortable diet as well as gives me benefits well beyond body fat loss.
So in my book, cardio is all good man...
A most excellent and often overlooked point.
jscan1
06-11-2009, 11:21 AM
funny tho... here in the "Over 35" group, I actually value cardio more than I ever have before. It strengthens my heart and lungs and helps my endurance which is beneficial with every day life. I am a fitter person for having doing it. So there is absolutely benefit for doing cardio. Is it necessary for body fat loss? No - not if you want to tweak your diet. But imo, cardio affords me a more comfortable diet as well as gives me benefits well beyond body fat loss.
So in my book, cardio is all good man...
I could not agree more
Chris_T
06-11-2009, 11:36 AM
funny tho... here in the "Over 35" group, I actually value cardio more than I ever have before. It strengthens my heart and lungs and helps my endurance which is beneficial with every day life. I am a fitter person for having doing it. So there is absolutely benefit for doing cardio. Is it necessary for body fat loss? No - not if you want to tweak your diet. But imo, cardio affords me a more comfortable diet as well as gives me benefits well beyond body fat loss.
So in my book, cardio is all good man...
I too value it a lot more than I used to. Even if it didn't remove a single fat cell, I like being able to run without feeling like I'm dying. I remember a few years ago when I was getting ready for a mountain bike race in B.C. The first few months were pure hell. Now I try to maintain a more balanced fitness regimen.
In fact, I should go post in the unlimited runner's thread. . .
chodan9
06-11-2009, 01:02 PM
thanks for all the input guys.
As an aside, I am noticing my journey to 180 this year has been made more difficult by the addition of about 10 pounds of lean mass in the last year (been a good year).
So 180 this time is more difficult to attain than it was last year. I hope in the next year to get to the point where I will have to increase my minimum weight. I met a guy today at the gym who asked to work in on my shrugs and while were talking weight came up and he asked my weight, I told him 188. He said "wow you look beefier than that, I was going to guess 200 to 205"
made my week :D
silverlightning
06-11-2009, 01:48 PM
your body adapted. when you added cardio and stopped, it seems that your body needed just that. we don't always need cardio to burn fat, drop weight, but it does work. i'm going to stop cardio in july and see how my body reacts. i'm going to start cycling again.