I've Been Wondering

[The_Animal11]

So, as most people around the sport know, after a bodybuilding competition, it's pretty much tradition to go on a pretty decent sized binge that night/the next morning. I've also noticed, that after a couple days recovery, it normally has very little effect on the competitors actual body composition. For example, this season i competed twice. After the first show my binge was well over 10k cals, and three days later I was just as lean/hard as i was the day before my show. for the second show, I counted the cals of the binge, it was over 15k cals, and three days later I was back to my competition weight. after the binges I didnt skip any meals or add extra cardio, i just went back on my diet for those days to recover.

similar things happen with a non-overboard cheat meal for most people, the next day they are pretty much still at their normal weight, and it doesnt seem to hinder progress (maybe mentally because they feel guilty, but not physically).

so my question is, can anyone in this section explain physiologically what causes this? i've always been intrigued by it!

[Kruczynski]

I can't answer your question, but I have one related to this subject.
Besides all the psychological aspect of coming off a prep diet (I've never competed, but I'm sure is HARD to get %BF so low), is it necessary to "binge" after a contest or can one just do a controlled refeed and have same/better results?
Also, how urgent is to go back to higher calories?

[pink378]

the body doesn't change much unless what you are doing is performed consistently.

[The_Animal11]

I can't answer your question, but I have one related to this subject.
Besides all the psychological aspect of coming off a prep diet (I've never competed, but I'm sure is HARD to get %BF so low), is it necessary to "binge" after a contest or can one just do a controlled refeed and have same/better results?
Also, how urgent is to go back to higher calories?

oh, its not at all necessary. actually, if you did your peak week right, theres really not even a need to refeed, as chances are you high-carbed the last day or so of peak week to fill out.

the binge is pretty much just traditional though. kinda like there's no real REASON for people to eat ridiculous amounts of food on Thanksgiving, or shoot off fireworks on Fourth of July, or buy candy to hand out on Halloween, but everyone does. I do it to celebrate making it through my diet, getting on stage and competing, and (hopefully) doing well in the show.

and the urgency of getting back to higher calories is pretty much determined by whether or not you are transitioning to an offseason to make gains or getting ready for another show. For example, I competed twice this season, 5 weeks apart. After the first show I binged (to celebrate my first show and relax a little) and then the next day went right back onto my prep diet to get ready for the next show. Then after this second show, I binged, and actually went back on my prep diet for a few days to get rid of the bloat, and then now I'm in the process of slowly ramping up calories to an offseason level, to begin to make strength and mass gains again.

Its actually not a great idea to JUMP right into your offseason diet cals, better to work your way up to it. but you want to eventually get the cals back up there if you want to improve, i've always heard that coming off of your prep diet is the best time to make LBM gains.

[RandyJH]

Bump, because I am curious regarding the science of this as well.

Maybe someone like alan could post his thoughts regarding.

[caa5000]

There is a huge increase in NEAT (Non-exercise Activity Thermogenesis) after consuming an exceptionally large meal. Anywhere from 50-69% of the excess calories are given off as heat after a large meal. Stuff like fidgeting, brisk walks etc active this. So you can already chalk up huge amount of calorie burnage to this.

So let's assume you overate by 10k calories. Let's say 50% was burned up via NEAT, leaving you at a net gain of 5k. You ate 10k calories, so it's going to take energy to digest that food, let's say about 10% for the thermic effect, so that's another 1k. Now you are at a net gain of about 4k calories. Still a pretty sizable amount when you think about it. However, let's not forget that since you workout and were just cutting for a show, your muscles are probably glycogen deprived. Assuming you ahve more muscle mass than the normal person, you probably are going to be able to store a lot more glycogen. The average person is around 2000 calories worth of glycogen. So let's chalk it up as 2500 calories of glycogen storage, which would probably be on the low end for someone with lots of LBM. Your net gain is now 1500 calories. Not too bad. Easily burnt off with 2 days of dieting.

How long did you say until your body was back to the same weight? That's what I thought :-p

[The_Animal11]

There is a huge increase in NEAT (Non-exercise Activity Thermogenesis) after consuming an exceptionally large meal. Anywhere from 50-69% of the excess calories are given off as heat after a large meal. Stuff like fidgeting, brisk walks etc active this. So you can already chalk up huge amount of calorie burnage to this.

So let's assume you overate by 10k calories. Let's say 50% was burned up via NEAT, leaving you at a net gain of 5k. You ate 10k calories, so it's going to take energy to digest that food, let's say about 10% for the thermic effect, so that's another 1k. Now you are at a net gain of about 4k calories. Still a pretty sizable amount when you think about it. However, let's not forget that since you workout and were just cutting for a show, your muscles are probably glycogen deprived. Assuming you ahve more muscle mass than the normal person, you probably are going to be able to store a lot more glycogen. The average person is around 2000 calories worth of glycogen. So let's chalk it up as 2500 calories of glycogen storage, which would probably be on the low end for someone with lots of LBM. Your net gain is now 1500 calories. Not too bad. Easily burnt off with 2 days of dieting.

How long did you say until your body was back to the same weight? That's what I thought :-p

really 50%?? so after the second show, i coulda lost over 7500 cals just as heat??

oh, and the only thing is, i know that my muscles shouldnt really have been glycogen deprived, because the day or so before the show you carb-load, so i shoulda been more than glycogen filled. but that 50% is still surprising and interesting! thanks!

[caa5000]

really 50%?? so after the second show, i coulda lost over 7500 cals just as heat??

oh, and the only thing is, i know that my muscles shouldnt really have been glycogen deprived, because the day or so before the show you carb-load, so i shoulda been more than glycogen filled. but that 50% is still surprising and interesting! thanks!


hey it's important to note that this increase is different in every person. And while metabolism isn't very different from person to person, the amount of calories burned via NEAT is quite drastic. Take your very lean person, odds are the fidget a lot and are constantly up and moving, while your obese people rarely even move. The heat released via NEAT is our body's way of keeping us lean.

[RandyJH]

There is a huge increase in NEAT (Non-exercise Activity Thermogenesis) after consuming an exceptionally large meal. Anywhere from 50-69% of the excess calories are given off as heat after a large meal. Stuff like fidgeting, brisk walks etc active this. So you can already chalk up huge amount of calorie burnage to this.

So let's assume you overate by 10k calories. Let's say 50% was burned up via NEAT, leaving you at a net gain of 5k. You ate 10k calories, so it's going to take energy to digest that food, let's say about 10% for the thermic effect, so that's another 1k. Now you are at a net gain of about 4k calories. Still a pretty sizable amount when you think about it. However, let's not forget that since you workout and were just cutting for a show, your muscles are probably glycogen deprived. Assuming you ahve more muscle mass than the normal person, you probably are going to be able to store a lot more glycogen. The average person is around 2000 calories worth of glycogen. So let's chalk it up as 2500 calories of glycogen storage, which would probably be on the low end for someone with lots of LBM. Your net gain is now 1500 calories. Not too bad. Easily burnt off with 2 days of dieting.

How long did you say until your body was back to the same weight? That's what I thought :-p


Interesting enough, thats for sure.

However the water bloat is still frustrating as all hell for a few days...no way around that.

[caa5000]

Interesting enough, thats for sure.

However the water bloat is still frustrating as all hell for a few days...no way around that.

In the words of Charles Barkley: It's turrible.

[luckymetshatt1]

i am absolutely dieing to know the answer to this..maybe move it to the nutrition section where its more busy?

[imccarthy]

Some of it will be burnt of through increased NEAT. Some of it will synthesize glycogen (in this case supercompensation), some of it will go towards protein synthesis and no doubt some of it will be stored as fat, just not enough for it to be noticeable.

As one regains fat during refeeding visceral fat is often regained first, so you'd be surprised how much fat you can gain without noticing it at all.

[Tussmann57]

Some of it will be burnt of through increased NEAT. Some of it will synthesize glycogen (in this case supercompensation), some of it will go towards protein synthesis and no doubt some of it will be stored as fat, just not enough for it to be noticeable.

As one regains fat during refeeding visceral fat is often regained first, so you'd be surprised how much fat you can gain without noticing it at all.

Is their an evolutionary perspective on NEAT? Such as, Why would it be optimal for survival?

[Tussmann57]

Is their an evolutionary perspective on NEAT? Such as, Why would it be optimal for survival?

bump?

[nano.ix]

Is their an evolutionary perspective on NEAT? Such as, Why would it be optimal for survival?

I think it would, as the abstract states with lower strenuous work & under eating NEAT will decrease; which would affect survival rates greatly. Who knows how it was done without the full article though


Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs.Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT.Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus,NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight.The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415

[Tussmann57]

I think it would, as the abstract states with lower strenuous work & under eating NEAT will decrease; which would affect survival rates greatly. Who knows how it was done without the full article though



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415


Could you translate all this into bodybuilding terms? Aka, does overfeeding really matter if done sporadically in mass volumes?

How can I determine my NEAT?

Does NEAT explain why a binge alcohol night followed by a taco bell run well over 7k+ calories doesn't add a ton of fat onto my body?

[Tussmann57]

bump this is serious business.

[Superhuman7]

If I'm gonna cheat, it's better to do it all at once then spread it out over a week?

[x Idealist x]

If I'm gonna cheat, it's better to do it all at once then spread it out over a week?

Yes, don't waste an entire week, one day or one MEAL a week will not hinder your progress but a whole week would really halt what your trying to do.

Exceptions:
- Vacation
- Post Contest

[spectre86]

wow good info. learned some new stuff:)