Anti-Histamines and Sleep

[Mike83]

check this out:


Further studies on the distinctive sleep-wakefulness profiles of antihistamines (astemizole, ketotifen, terfenadine) in dogs
A. Wauquier *, W. A. E. van Den Broeck, F. Awouters, P. A. J. Janssen
Department of Pharmacology, Janssen Pharmaceutica, Beerse, Belgium

*Correspondence to A. Wauquier, Department of Neuropharmacology, Janssen Pharmaceutica, B-2340 Beerse, Belgium

Keywords
sleep-wakefulness patterns ? dogs ? antihistamines ? astemizole ? ketotifen ? terfenadine

Abstract
The effects of the antihistamines astemizole, ketotifen, and terfenadine, given orally at the dose of 10 mg/kg, were investigated on 16-hr sleep-wakefulness patterns in dogs. As determined in the Ascaris allergy test in dogs, this dose had marked antihistaminic activity for at least the total duration of the recording. Using a computerized on-line analysis and automatic sleep classification, a differentiation was made between wakefulness, transition to sleep, slow-wave sleep, and REM (or paradoxical) sleep. Astemizole did not significantly change sleep-wakefulness patterns. Ketotifen significantly increased slow-wave sleep and significantly decreased REM sleep. Terfenadine significantly decreased wakefulness and significantly increased both slow-wave sleep and REM sleep. With both ketotifen and terfenadine, REM latency was prolonged. Two different mechanisms appear to be involved in the REM sleep effects seen with terfenadine: an early REM sleep suppressant effect and a late but large REM sleep-enhancing effect. This study shows central effects of terfenadine that are not completely typical for H1 antagonists but which are very pronounced at a dose producing much weaker peripheral antihistamine activity than the same dose of ketotifen and astemizole.

[Catchol]

check this out:


Further studies on the distinctive sleep-wakefulness profiles of antihistamines (astemizole, ketotifen, terfenadine) in dogs
A. Wauquier *, W. A. E. van Den Broeck, F. Awouters, P. A. J. Janssen
Department of Pharmacology, Janssen Pharmaceutica, Beerse, Belgium

*Correspondence to A. Wauquier, Department of Neuropharmacology, Janssen Pharmaceutica, B-2340 Beerse, Belgium

Keywords
sleep-wakefulness patterns ? dogs ? antihistamines ? astemizole ? ketotifen ? terfenadine

Abstract
The effects of the antihistamines astemizole, ketotifen, and terfenadine, given orally at the dose of 10 mg/kg, were investigated on 16-hr sleep-wakefulness patterns in dogs. As determined in the Ascaris allergy test in dogs, this dose had marked antihistaminic activity for at least the total duration of the recording. Using a computerized on-line analysis and automatic sleep classification, a differentiation was made between wakefulness, transition to sleep, slow-wave sleep, and REM (or paradoxical) sleep. Astemizole did not significantly change sleep-wakefulness patterns. Ketotifen significantly increased slow-wave sleep and significantly decreased REM sleep. Terfenadine significantly decreased wakefulness and significantly increased both slow-wave sleep and REM sleep. With both ketotifen and terfenadine, REM latency was prolonged. Two different mechanisms appear to be involved in the REM sleep effects seen with terfenadine: an early REM sleep suppressant effect and a late but large REM sleep-enhancing effect. This study shows central effects of terfenadine that are not completely typical for H1 antagonists but which are very pronounced at a dose producing much weaker peripheral antihistamine activity than the same dose of ketotifen and astemizole.

Relevance?

[ragamuffinsaint]

Yes is this relevent at all?

It was on dogs, when was carried out, plus it was done by a drugs company, but what significance do the results have?
- unless my dog gets hayfever and i think my vet is screwing me over by wrecking my hooches sleep pattern ;)

[Mike83]

I just thought it had some significance since many people who use clenbuterol take ketotifen.

[ragamuffinsaint]

Hey sorry had to look clenbuterol up, I never seen it being used clinically. I guess its being used to try and aid weightloss in those cases but why in combination with an Anti-histamine?

[Mike83]

Hey sorry had to look clenbuterol up, I never seen it being used clinically. I guess its being used to try and aid weightloss in those cases but why in combination with an Anti-histamine?

Clenbuterol fat burning effects are prolonged when used with an anti-histamine.

The fat burning slows down after two weeks, so a user would take ketotifen to extend the cycle. I would think taking an anti-histamine for a week at night would screw up your rem sleep.

[ragamuffinsaint]

Do they not suffer side-effects using a B2 agonist (clenbuterol) long term?

[Catchol]

Clenbuterol fat burning effects are prolonged when used with an anti-histamine.

This myth was started by someone who doesn't really understand the pharmacology of beta-adregenic agonists, and somehow overlooked the fact that clenbuterol is nothing more than a more-selective version of ephedrine.


The fat burning slows down after two weeks, so a user would take ketotifen to extend the cycle.

...or just skip the voodoo science and simply take caffeine and aspirin with it.

[Mike83]

This myth was started by someone who doesn't really understand the pharmacology of beta-adregenic agonists, and somehow overlooked the fact that clenbuterol is nothing more than a more-selective version of ephedrine.



...or just skip the voodoo science and simply take caffeine and aspirin with it.

I never heard of people using C/C/A stacks, everyone says to do 2weeks on 2weeks off of clen, or use ketotifen.

[Catchol]

I never heard of people using C/C/A stacks, everyone says to do 2weeks on 2weeks off of clen, or use ketotifen.

Yes, and they're all wrong. If you take your pharmacology advice from bodybuilders, then you deserve to fail.

See: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=209429771

[AnthonyBishop]

Reading this thread has me thinking of switching from Diphenhydramine to Doxylamine for sleep. Can't find studies on either pertaining to stages of sleep in humans (or animals).

^Error, or does the correct and incorrect answer lie within the same post?

Nevermind. Post was edited. The link provided gives the correct explanation, correct?

[Mike83]

Yes, and they're all wrong. If you take your pharmacology advice from bodybuilders, then you deserve to fail.

See: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=209429771
Every bodybuilding site that has any articles about clenbuterol talk about taking anti-histamines with it, so thats why I and many others believe them. Its nice that you can shed some light if we are all being lied to. You seem to have a much better understanding on the science behind this than I do.

No need to come on aggressively about this.

[ragamuffinsaint]

I don't know that much a about it's use within the bodybuilding community to aid weightloss, but personally I think it is risky using a beta 2 adrengenic agonist for such a use.
It may have a clinical use, but by using it for a different reason your opening yourself up to all the side effects associated with the drug - is that really very wise?