Hardest Nurtriton Question I've ever come across why me it sucks bad :)

[Defyfate]

The other things I get and understand but what do you all think number 3 really means?

There is no way in which spasticity is of benefit to children or adults with CP (Cerebral Palsy). Spasticity adversely affects muscles and joints of the extremities, causing abnormal movements, and is especially harmful in growing children. The known adverse effects of spasticity include:

1. Inhibition of movement.
2. Inhibition of longitudinal muscle growth. (I guess this means I didn?t grow to my real height most likely) I?m short

3. Inhibition of protein synthesis in muscle cells. (If this was entirely true wouldn?t I die?, I think it?s just my Cerebral Palsy that in some ways is drastically decreasing my bodily processes in regards to how much of the protein and other nutrients I consume reach my muscles to help them grow and from my experience no matter how much I consume daily.) (I hate Number 3 I read everywhere in magazines and stuff I gained Ten-Twenty pounds in 3 mos. Time or I got in the best shape of my life in a year (I?ve been at it hard for 5 or 6 years) grrr it?s absolutely maddening I tell you, I want to be buff

4. Limited stretching of muscles in daily activities.
5. Development of muscle and joint deformities.
(I only also have trouble sleeping not staying asleep once I am but going to sleep forget about it
Other Factors about me to consider to help all of help me if you can

 My diet is far from being as strict as most regular bodybuilders I realize this, but you ?d think this would help me gain weight even in the form of body fat not that I want that by any means but my weight mostly stays the same around 100-110lbs and my body fat is not super low but not high either I?d say around 14-20% body fat maybe lower don?t really know.

 I?m not going to list my whole diet but are some of the foods I eat a lot

Lean Pockets, Chesse Milk, Healthy Choice, Gatorade, Water, Hamburger, Chicken, Grapes, Bananas, Peanut Butter, Cottage Cheese Fish (sometimes), Oatmeal, Eggs, Cereal, Protein bars (sometimes) can?t stand the shakes I?m a Wuss I know lol and many more foods I could on forever as I?m sure most people could humans eat a lot of different stuff on any given day :) oh and very little junk food, I mean hardly none and it ain?t a matter of not eating I love food and drinks

 I?m a realist for the most part I believe and now I?m between 5?6-5?8 inches tall (I?ve been told both heights because it is impossible for me to stand up really straight to tell with certainty and I know I?m never gonna be like a 180lbs monster I simply don?t have the frame for it (Small dude I know and I?m kind of glad, cause if I did and was good luck helping lift me on the pot, out of bed or in the shower hahaha I want to be like 145-160lbs at 4-8% BF I hope those are someday doable goals for me because I?m a handsome stud who feels like a bean pole :) being overweight is sad no doubt but being underweight and seemingly unable to gain much is sad to I mean I know look decent but sometimes I just want to eat like a 1000000 calories I get so very tire of not gaining weight or muscle no matter what I do or try but I will not give up but I just don?t want to be like 50-60years and still weight like 110lbs I mean come on most kids outweigh me it?s embarrassing lol.

 Many are quick to tell I must have a very fast metabolism and I?m sure I do very fast but let?s be real here young men and men my size after puberty do not constantly stay 100- 110lbs I mean it?s unheard of even more so when they eat well and bodybuild like I do 6-7 times a week nobody on earth has a metabolic rate that fast I should be weighing at least 120-125lbs by now that?s not to much to ask I don?t think.

 I don?t smoke or drink

 Supplements I?ve tried

Whey Protein

Weight gainer

Protein Bars yummy shakes not so much pukeville

Creatine

Multivitamins

Boost

Digestive enzymes (thought I had malabsorbation and had it figured out


 Supplements I?m going to try next

BCAA?s

Flax Seed Oil

Glutamine

CLA

B vitamins
Get me some more multivitamins

Miracle grow, Roids, and HGH

lol jp never even if I must stay skinny forever not that I mind if people do doesn?t bother me it?s their choice and their bodies and doesn?t mean they are bad or are going to hurt you the people I mean

Supplements that may also help my skinny butt grow better before I?m 100 years old you tell me everyone and yes I know that they won?t make drastic changes

?

Also tell me what no one can or will it seems, if this is a problem due to a decreased rate of protein synthesis, a catabolic effect brought on by my muscle tightness and cerebral palsy, a problem due to lack of sleep, (I even thought hyperthyroidism at onetime lol) Cerebral palsy what do I do I mean my Cerebral Palsy and muscle tightness with muscle spasticity is not going to leave me anytime soon lol and this lack of muscle mass and growth despite very hard year after year work is driving me quite insane * insane laughter* see? I?ll take any advice or tips you got throw them out winner gets Nobel prize hahaha but seriously see what you can think of and let me know take care thanks everyone

The source for the science part of this article came from this link check it out

[Defyfate]

Typos everywhere sorry all I tried to bullelts that's why it looks strange

[reefpicker]

Your posting caught my attention, specially because it went unanswered for some time.

I read a bit on CP and on the one specific type that you refer.

First, let me talk about some general things which might concern you.

You have to keep in mind that your muscles are firing at random, but under low load. Now, I do not know if the problem affects muscle coordination, but if it does, you are going to have a hard time just training properly.

Because they fire randomly, you are most likely burning a lot of calories just from that (my guess), or maybe you have a higher metabolism because of another underlying issue.

Firing randomly under no load, your muscles won't grow.

The lack of coordination between firing muscle fibers probably leads to the breakdown of tissue, and those factors (inflamatory type) might lead to the effects described in your list. Protein synthesis might go negative (i.e. locally catabolism occurs) and glycogen stores might be never reach full capacity. This is a direct consequence of chronic inflamation, a lack of coordinated response at the muscle fiber (pulling and pushing) and because your muscles are being exhausted overall.

I AM NOT A PHYSICIAN of course or a specialist, BUT I would say that IMO your biggest challenge (from what you have described as well as my understanding of CP) is not in the diet, but in trying to perform overloading exercises.

So, what type of exercises do you do? can you safely perform them? Cables? Resistance bands? Do you use one of those special hand pedal bikes?

I understand your predicament. I hope you can achieve your goals or at least get as close as humanly possible to them.

Finally, I wonder how much of a big frame you can support given that your lower body might always be a limiting factor. Have you considered this? What are your thoughts/or of the experts on this you have talked about????

HTH

PD You look good on that pic. When was that?

[Defyfate]

Thank you so much that's got to be the smartest reply I've ever heard whenever I've asked this question and I work out with 60lbs on a wheelchair accessible machine called Progym 360, again i think your spot on and thanks for everything do you think Glutmine and BCAA's along with my diet would the inflammation and catibolic lol can't spell do you know anything that might help some or just a bit even? also just wondering home you know so much about CP i think that's cool

[reefpicker]

I PM you on this as well, but I was also wondering... Have you hit a plateau???? (meaning you started to see increase in your weight training strength, then it just leveled off).


If yes, how long ago? which exercises? how long did it take you to hit the plateau?

have you seen any significant increase in your muscles? in your pics you look like you have nice abs/side or perhaps lats???

Which muscles have been the easiest? which are the hardest???

I just want to get a picture of your status in terms of your physiological capacity to sustain hypertrophy....

[Defyfate]

Thanks a lot Reef Those pics were taken in 08, but i can't stand the thought and can't shake it that although i know that for my size and disability I'm in super shape and very strong for a little dude little kids, like 12-14yr old kids outweigh me by like 30-40lbs mass it's awful I'm a 22 year old ladykiller :) and feel like a a skinny chick sometimes, it sickens me bro that if i had 30-40lbs of mass or whatever amount i would make it pure unabridged muscle gain

[justanotherchik]

first off congrats on not letting your disability stand in your way. you have a better physique than most able bodied people i know. just goes to show that hard work/dedication really do pay off. keep it up.

anyway i know a bit about cp and from my understading it can vary considerably in severity from person to person. how badly does it affect your motor skills? basically what i'm asking is is it safe for you to preform exercises with db's instead of on that machine? could you maybe get somebody to help you modify a few of the exercises so you could do them with free weights? it would give you a better range of motion and maybe help stimulate better muscle growth. also if you've been using 60lbs for awhile you may have platued. by using free weights you could change it up and shock your system.

can't really help much on the nutrition front except mybe asking you to post a typical day. if you've got some spare time try to write down what you eat and then enter it into a site like nutritiondata.com to find out how many calories you're actually eating. i troll the nutrition forum alot and many of the guys there complain they can't gain when really they're just not eating enough. it takes alot more than most people realise. i could be totally off base here but never hurts to double check.

also i know many people with cp are prescribed muscle relaxants to help ease tension/inflammation. you might want to tak to your doc about this. it could never hurt.

hope this helps :)

[KLMARB]

Have you considered eliminating grain from your diet? You mentioned problems with protein absorbtion/synthesis (#3) as one of your main concerns, and it brought to mind the problems some people have with absorbing the incomplete protein peptides found in grain, the most severe example being Celiac's Disease. This type of genetic sensitivity can manifest itself in many other ways as well, such as inflamation, swelling, acne, insulin resistance, etc..I haven't done any specific research directly relating to CP, but it may very well be worth a look for you...Another consideration would be to see how well your body does on fat-based nutrition. Getting the majority of your cals from fat (50-60%) along with 30-40% of cals from protein to see the effect that running your muscles on fatty acids/ketones would have as opposed to glucose. Its certainly possible that it would be more beneficial for your biochemistry, depending upon your genetics. Again, worth the consideration....

[reefpicker]

The idea of taking OTC or prescribed anti-inflamatory drugs sounds good, but I wonder if it can or can't potentially interfere with muscle hypertrophy (which requires an inflamatory phase). Anyone with information on this ?

Anything that will help you improve muscle overloading and hypertrophy should help you gain faster.

A good cable machine can get you good range of motion if you use it properly. Pulling or pushing weight while sitting on a wheel chair sounds like a challenge, specially if you have little ROM of your spine.

Another idea would be to use smaller increments in the cable machine. I would imagine that due to your sitting arrangement in the machine, you have a harder time pushing yourself to your 1R Max....

You can get a magnet that weights a pound or two, and use on the weight stack of the cable machine (also known as weight mate I think).

Keep up the good work! And update us on any interesting tidbit or idea that helps you.

BTW I have not looked at that link yet, but I will soon...

[KLMARB]

NSAIDS appear to be implicated to decrease protein synthesis. A while back, "Men's Fitness RX" ran a series of stories about this topic. The degree is under debate. I consider this to be reasonable, as they would interfere with the very biochemical process necessary for muscle hypertrophy, namely the process of cellular disruption sending out the chemical messengers leading to the scavenger cell response-GH release-minor swelling-muscle repair (and consequent growth) process. Fish oil is a potential alternative, it appears to help my son after his hard sports related workouts....It makes you question the wisdom of daily asprin therapy advocated for the elderly, could it lead to long term catabolism? The law of unintended consequences comes to mind....

[Defyfate]

for all the advice and things to consider i will conquer CP or the effects of it anyway :) mark my words lol i will keep you all updated and just today i started taking BCAAs and Glutamine and i know it's just been 1 day but my sore muscles seem to feel less sore/inflammed

[reefpicker]

for all the advice and things to consider i will conquer CP or the effects of it anyway :) mark my words lol i will keep you all updated and just today i started taking BCAAs and Glutamine and i know it's just been 1 day but my sore muscles seem to feel less sore/inflammed

Keep defying fate! I think you should be able kick start hypertrophy at some point! Also look for some professional help. As I said in my PM, feel free to PM me anytime about contacting any researcher. I will look over your email, etc, to make sure your voice is heard.


NSAIDS appear to be implicated to decrease protein synthesis. A while back, "Men's Fitness RX" ran a series of stories about this topic. The degree is under debate.

It would have to. The way hypertrophy is thought to work, an inflamatory process always seems to precede it. However, there might be otherwise in which hypertrophy is activated. Too much inflamation and hypertrophy does not occur, which is why taking NSAIDS might not be that bad of an idea depending on your situation. With so many mechanisms at play, it would be nice to see a study on this before commenting any further, but that would be my guess....



the wisdom of daily asprin therapy advocated for the elderly, could it lead to long term catabolism? The law of unintended consequences comes to mind....

I don't agree. First, inflamation is not always good, so NSAIDS might have a lot of benefits for some people. Second, the catabolism you are talking about, often termed sarcopenia, is unrelated to hypertrophic or inflamatory processes. It is thought to be a consequence of declining levels of GH and IGF-1.

[KLMARB]

Keep defying fate! I think you should be able kick start hypertrophy at some point! Also look for some professional help. As I said in my PM, feel free to PM me anytime about contacting any researcher. I will look over your email, etc, to make sure your voice is heard.



It would have to. The way hypertrophy is thought to work, an inflamatory process always seems to precede it. However, there might be otherwise in which hypertrophy is activated. Too much inflamation and hypertrophy does not occur, which is why taking NSAIDS might not be that bad of an idea depending on your situation. With so many mechanisms at play, it would be nice to see a study on this before commenting any further, but that would be my guess....



I don't agree. First, inflamation is not always good, so NSAIDS might have a lot of benefits for some people. Second, the catabolism you are talking about, often termed sarcopenia, is unrelated to hypertrophic or inflamatory processes. It is thought to be a consequence of declining levels of GH and IGF-1.

Interesting point, certainly not unreasonable. One of the reasons I'm also skeptical about the use of NSAIDS to treat the inflammation of joints in the elderly is that the treatment appears to be geared to reduction/treatment of the overt symptom (inflamation) as opposed to curing the root cause. I find the dietary implications to be very possible, with grain peptides being implicated. Symptoms appear to be lessened/eliminated on gluten free diets, with total elimination ocurring during fasting. That suggests to me a nutritional component, call it a "food allergy", but it is probably an example of Evolutionary Discordance for genetically susceptible individuals...