I have a questin about a barbell

[Bluerain]

I need a 5ft bar and want the snap ring design and interested in this bar.

What does " A shoulder bolt " mean ?

"Cemco Olympic Bars are made from Fatigue-Proof, Ground and Polished, 30mm Steel with a 1200 lb. test to inhibit bending. Self-Lubricating, Nylatron Bushings are used to absorb shock and give consistent rotation through years of usage. A shoulder bolt and proprietary "Snap-Ring" design is used to fix rotating ends to shaft, torqued to 130 p.s.i. and finished with locking compound. Cemco Olympic Bars come in Black Oxide and our innovative HARD Chrome finish. Bar sizes include 7ft., 5ft. and Olympic, E-Z Curl Bars. E-Z Curl Bars come in 52" in length, assuring to fit on all standard racks."
"

[Essexlad]

A shoulder bolt is a bolt with a smooth section before the thread, that can be a different diameter than the thread if needed, or the same. Dunno if that helps.

[Bluerain]

A shoulder bolt is a bolt with a smooth section before the thread, that can be a different diameter than the thread if needed, or the same. Dunno if that helps.

No it doesn't but thanks :)

[yankeemarko1]

Here is pic of shoulder bolt if that helps you to visualize how it would be installed.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr249/yankeemarko1/base_media.jpg

[Bluerain]

Here is pic of shoulder bolt if that helps you to visualize how it would be installed.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr249/yankeemarko1/base_media.jpg

Yankee..where does this bolt go on the barbell ?

Thanks :)

[yankeemarko1]

I think the way it works is this. The shoulder bolt holds on the sleeve where you load your weights. It is then covered with the snap ring and lubricated so it spins nice and easy. There would be no exposed bolt on the end of bar like you see on cheap bars.

Anyone else jump in here and correct me if I am wrong.

[Bluerain]

I think the way it works is this. The shoulder bolt holds on the sleeve where you load your weights. It is then covered with the snap ring and lubricated so it spins nice and easy. There would be no exposed bolt on the end of bar like you see on cheap bars.

Anyone else jump in here and correct me if I am wrong.

Great ..just what I wanted to hear !

Rep u again when I can .

[4MEandThem]

Check out the Pendlays too. It looks like the cemcos are on back order when I when looked for a price to compare. Pendlay has several price options for oly bars and several for general purpose bars as well. I really like mine on the recommendation of Crupia from this forum.I really like the quality difference from my crappy bars. No comparison!

[Bluerain]

I think the way it works is this. The shoulder bolt holds on the sleeve where you load your weights. It is then covered with the snap ring and lubricated so it spins nice and easy. There would be no exposed bolt on the end of bar like you see on cheap bars.

Anyone else jump in here and correct me if I am wrong.

Yankee

So if a bar uses the the Snap Ring design does it mean all these type of bars have a Shoulder Bolt ?

Or can you have the snap ring design and not have a shoulder bolt ?

You know of a site where they expalin everything you need to know about bars ?

I been searching and all I find is each company touting their own bar.
I need a site that expalins the ins and outs of bars.

I like to research as much as possible before making a purchase .

Thanks for any help .

[Essexlad]

I know you asked yankee, but I've been looking into this to. This is a quite interesting post someone quoted off a crossfit board;



You can't make the assumption that a solid end means that it is a better quality barbell, but if you see a bolt screwed into the end then, yes, that barbell is not suitable for olympic lifts.

While all of the good quality bars that I can think of have solid ends, I do not know if there are other bars with solid ends that do not use high quality components or even use bolts below the solid end cap.

Any barbell with a bot in the end will fail eventually because the screw will loosen itself and either come out completely or break during a lift.

To determine the quality of a barbell you really need to know the manufacturer and the components that were used.

For example, most quality barbells use snap rings rather than bolts to hold the sleeves in place. However, this is not the only way to securely attach the sleeves. For example, York's higher quality bars use an end piece that is the size of the sleeve with a pin in it to keep it in place. This may be an even stronger way to attach the sleeves.

Sometimes a solid endcap indicates that the sleeve is a closed systems where the bushings or bearings are bathed in motor oil. This is probably one of the most desirable ways to make a sleeve. However a sealed system is not the only way to go. The Chapman Elite bars that everyone loves have to holes in the end that allow you to add 3-in-1 oil periodically to lubricate the needle bearings. (I guess that even with the 2 holes in the end I would still put these in the solid endcap category)

Even needle bearings bars are not created equal. If you hear that a bar has needle bearings the first reaction is to assume that it is a good quality bar and will be better than a bar that uses bushings, since this is what the IWF certified bars use. However, this is not always the case. Some bars will advertise that they use needle bearings and just use one per sleeve. Good quality bars will use at least 3 per sleeve, some will use 5. The quality of these bearing varies greatly as well. There was a bar made a little while ago that used low quality needle bearings. It was quickly taken off of the market due to the needle bearings failing.

There are some bars with really good quality bushins that spin quite well, as good or better than some needle bearing bars. At the very least they spin well enough, that it does not effect the quality of the lift. Some of the good quality bushing bars are manufactured by Pendlay and York. Another point is sometimes people say that they are going with bushings for less maintenance, while it is true that you may need to be a little more careful about oiling your needle bearing bars than your bushing bars, the real difference in maintenance is the fact that you will not have to replace broken bearings, because bushings are much less likely to fail.

So I guess in answer to your question: A solid end cap is a start, but you may need to look further

written from the perspective of an olympic lifter I think, I found it interesting.

This article I found quite helpful, but dosen't go into sleeve construction, still worth a read I think (especially the bit about PSI);
http://www.pullum-sports.co.uk/buying-a-bar/info_11.html


I've been looking for site/article that explains olympic bar sleeve construction types, mechanics, pro's & con's etc. Can't find one. Anywhere.

There's a guy I've seen post here on behalf of Ivanko, although obviously a tad biased to which the best bars are, he might be able to answer a few questions on different constructions.

If you do find anything please share!

[Wildtim]

Thats a great idea! Ask Ivan when he comes on board. Ivanko makes everything from cheap hex end to $1200 plus competition bars. I believe he said that they once mad a hex bolt bearing bar even at one time. If anyone can give you more detail I don't know who it would be.

[Keetman]

I know you asked yankee, but I've been looking into this to. This is a quite interesting post someone quoted off a crossfit board;




written from the perspective of an olympic lifter I think, I found it interesting.

This article I found quite helpful, but dosen't go into sleeve construction, still worth a read I think (especially the bit about PSI);
http://www.pullum-sports.co.uk/buying-a-bar/info_11.html


I've been looking for site/article that explains olympic bar sleeve construction types, mechanics, pro's & con's etc. Can't find one. Anywhere.

There's a guy I've seen post here on behalf of Ivanko, although obviously a tad biased to which the best bars are, he might be able to answer a few questions on different constructions.

If you do find anything please share!





Very good post Essex. The York bar they refer to is the type I have. I'm going to take one of mine apart, clean it, and take pics tonight or tomorrow for Blue. I'll make a new thread when I do so everyone can see it and maybe make it a "All you needed to know about bars" thread.


And "Ivankobarbellco" is the tag of the member you speak of. I'm sure he can't help be somewhat biased, but I don't think you'd notice it if you didn't know whom he represented. Good guy with good knowledge.

[Bluerain]

Well this is a start and very helpful. Yes a explanation on the sleeve construction will help.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Cemco means by "Shoulder Bolt" . Yankee explained it but I also want to be sure .It's a snap ring design which is good but they use Self-Lubricating, Nylatron Bushings and I'm not sure if that part is good. That means you can't lubricate it and are these type of bushings good.

So far the Cemco is in the running due to it's price and snap ring design..much cheaper compare to simular bars. I remember reading somewhere awhile back that people were very happy with this bar .

I'm just trying to clarify some things like the shoulder bolt thingy and the nylatron bushings.

Rep u again when i can .


I know you asked yankee, but I've been looking into this to. This is a quite interesting post someone quoted off a crossfit board;




written from the perspective of an olympic lifter I think, I found it interesting.

This article I found quite helpful, but dosen't go into sleeve construction, still worth a read I think (especially the bit about PSI);
http://www.pullum-sports.co.uk/buying-a-bar/info_11.html


I've been looking for site/article that explains olympic bar sleeve construction types, mechanics, pro's & con's etc. Can't find one. Anywhere.

There's a guy I've seen post here on behalf of Ivanko, although obviously a tad biased to which the best bars are, he might be able to answer a few questions on different constructions.

If you do find anything please share!

[Bluerain]

Very good post Essex. The York bar they refer to is the type I have. I'm going to take one of mine apart, clean it, and take pics tonight or tomorrow for Blue. I'll make a new thread when I do so everyone can see it and maybe make it a "All you needed to know about bars" thread.


And "Ivankobarbellco" is the tag of the member you speak of. I'm sure he can't help be somewhat biased, but I don't think you'd notice it if you didn't know whom he represented. Good guy with good knowledge.

Yes a everything thread about bars would be great. !

Well here's some info on coatings from Cemco's site. ..

Hard Chromium-Molybdenum Plating

Q. In a nutshell, can you tell me if there is any difference between decorative chrome plating vs. hard? I heard someone call decorative chrome plating, "black chrome plating." Is there such a thing?

A. You actually referred to three different plating processes.

1) The terms Hard Chromium Plating, Industrial Chrome Plating, Engineering Chrome Plating and Functional Chrome Plating generally refer to the process of electrodepositing a thick layer (0.2 mils to 30 mils or more) of chromium. Usually, the coating is applied directly to ferrous substrates, like steel, although it can also be applied to non-ferrous substrates. The thick chrome is almost always deposited from a hexavalent chromium plating bath. The chromium deposit is usually selected to take advantage of its desirable properties:

Hardness
Wearability
Corrosion resistance
Lubricity
Low coefficient of friction
You can find all kinds of parts that are hard chrome plated. Some of them are:

Hydraulic rods and cylinders
Aircraft jet engine components
Diesel cylinder liners
Pneumatic struts for automobile hatchbacks
Shock absorbers
Aircraft landing gear
Railroad wheel bearings and couplers
Tool and die parts
Molds for the plastic and rubber industry


2) The terms Decorative Chromium Plating and Bright Chrome Plating generally refer to a different process, whereby a thin layer (sometimes 50 millionths of an inch) of chromium is deposited for appearance or non-tarnishing purposes. It is usually deposited over a layer of nickel, or copper + nickel. I'm sure you are familiar with the kinds of parts that are bright chrome plated:

Car and truck bumpers
Zinc die-cast emblems (remember the "Chevy/GMC K5 Blazer"?)
Motorcycle parts
Kitchen appliances
There has been a strong movement away from hexavalent decorative chromium baths, to the newer trivalent chromium baths. The trivalent form of chromium is considered to be less toxic.

3) Black Chromium is a specialty chromium coating, which has a black color instead of the usual silver color. It is often used in solar applications, where it enjoys a high solar absorbance and low thermal emittance. It may also be specified for aesthetic reasons.

I hope this information has been helpful.

[Bluerain]

The guy from Ivanko who posts here mentioned a guy who did research on bars and his name is Jim Sutherland.

I tried searching the net for this guy and his findings but nothing.

Maybe you can try and find what this guy wrote because I can't.

[[eric]]

Blue - I have a Cemco (http://www.cemcofitness.com/) E-Z Curl Bar, and it's a nice bar, but there is no visable snap ring. It has a bolt holding the sleeve on like many bars. It's several years old, so they may have changed the design.

There is lots of good info on bars over at the Crossfit Equipment Forum (http://www.board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10&order=desc).

Also see How do I choose a weighlifting bar? (http://www.roguefitness.com/blog/?p=684) and Choosing a Weighlifting Bar - Part 2 (http://www.roguefitness.com/blog/?p=687) at Rogue Fitness.

Why do you want a bar with a snap ring design?

-- Eric

[IvankoBarbellCo]

The guy from Ivanko who posts here mentioned a guy who did research on bars and his name is Jim Sutherland.

I tried searching the net for this guy and his findings but nothing.

Maybe you can try and find what this guy wrote because I can't.

I'll ask about getting a copy of the findings. They are referenced in one of olympic bar articles on our site. Some of you may find these articles informative about the manufacture of olympic bars. We'd like to have an new, independent study done of the various olympic bars on the market today. But a "proper" study using the right controlled methods like having the lab acquire the bars directly (blind) gets really expensive, from what I understand. I've been looking into find a university graduate program that might want to do it.

[IvankoBarbellCo]

I believe he said that they once made a hex bolt bearing bar even at one time.

Yes, the OB-84. I think I've got one left that's assembled.

I had some pictures of some of our USA-made sleeves using hex bolts. Can't find them on my home computer now. Let me take some pics over the next few days of some examples of what's being asked for in this thread and try to summarize some answers as best I can.

There are some guys at Ivanko that collect vintage equipment. I know some of you share the same interests in the history of equipment. There are a few links to resources that might be interesting to some of you on our links page, like Iron Game History.

Also, if you go to the US Patent database, you can find all sorts of designs that have been tried for olympic bars. Some of them have good drawings and might answer some questions in the meantime.

[Essexlad]

Very good post Essex. The York bar they refer to is the type I have. I'm going to take one of mine apart, clean it, and take pics tonight or tomorrow for Blue. I'll make a new thread when I do so everyone can see it and maybe make it a "All you needed to know about bars" thread.


And "Ivankobarbellco" is the tag of the member you speak of. I'm sure he can't help be somewhat biased, but I don't think you'd notice it if you didn't know whom he represented. Good guy with good knowledge.

Looking forward to that, the York power bar is on my shortlist of bars at the moment, would be great to see a similar one disected! A bar thread would be a great idea I think, they are pretty central part of a gym.


The guy from Ivanko who posts here mentioned a guy who did research on bars and his name is Jim Sutherland.

I tried searching the net for this guy and his findings but nothing.

Maybe you can try and find what this guy wrote because I can't.

Only found 3 references to him, one of which was this thread lol! One of the others was a post here 2 years ago, if you read the bolded section at the bottom it explains his research;

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=8186074&postcount=42

Would like to know how his power rack stood up to those tests! No way of knowing of this is a real correspondence (looks genuine) and unfortunatley dosen't help with your question..


I'll ask about getting a copy of the findings. They are referenced in one of olympic bar articles on our site. Some of you may find these articles informative about the manufacture of olympic bars. We'd like to have an new, independent study done of the various olympic bars on the market today. But a "proper" study using the right controlled methods like having the lab acquire the bars directly (blind) gets really expensive, from what I understand. I've been looking into find a university graduate program that might want to do it.

I've read the 'how to bend an olympic bar' and 'how to break an olympic bar' articles, both were part 1, are there any further parts? I couldn't find any.

apologies for any thread hijacking!

[Essexlad]

;306769271']Blue - I have a Cemco (http://www.cemcofitness.com/) E-Z Curl Bar, and it's a nice bar, but there is no visable snap ring. It has a bolt holding the sleeve on like many bars. It's several years old, so they may have changed the design.

There is lots of good info on bars over at the Crossfit Equipment Forum (http://www.board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10&order=desc).

Also see How do I choose a weighlifting bar? (http://www.roguefitness.com/blog/?p=684) and Choosing a Weighlifting Bar - Part 2 (http://www.roguefitness.com/blog/?p=687) at Rogue Fitness.

Why do you want a bar with a snap ring design?

-- Eric

The only thing about crossfit forums is that they almost exclusively reccommend bars for Olympic lifts. A bar for olympic lifts is different from a power bar, or a general purpose bar. Found a post on there saying the exact bar bluerain is looking at should be avoided as it was poor for olympic lifts. Most of the reccomendations are also for bars made by companies they have strong or at least some affiliations with crossfit (rogue, york, pendlay etc) whilst no doubt excellent bars there is a lot of bias.
Just some observations.

Haven't seen too much discussion on there about build methods, seems quite a hard topic to find info on!

The links from rogue were interesting though, thanks!

[Essexlad]

Well this is a start and very helpful. Yes a explanation on the sleeve construction will help.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Cemco means by "Shoulder Bolt" . Yankee explained it but I also want to be sure .It's a snap ring design which is good but they use Self-Lubricating, Nylatron Bushings and I'm not sure if that part is good. That means you can't lubricate it and are these type of bushings good.

So far the Cemco is in the running due to it's price and snap ring design..much cheaper compare to simular bars. I remember reading somewhere awhile back that people were very happy with this bar .

I'm just trying to clarify some things like the shoulder bolt thingy and the nylatron bushings.

Rep u again when i can .

Did a little poking around online about bushings, Nylatron bushings seem to be a middle ground between low-grade plastic bushings, and the top of the line copper bushings. Some places say they are as good as copper bushings in heavy load situations, so it seems like a good choice to me, but I'm no expert.

They are self lubicating which means you don't have to lubricate them, but I found a few places saying that if you do lubricate them it will pro-long their working lifespan. So it's not that you can't lubricate them, you just don't have to if you don't want to take your bar apart.

hope that helps a bit. Still no idea on where the shoulder bolt goes!

[Bluerain]

Hi Eric

Strange that the description for the 7 and 5 ft bars is the same for the e z bar on the Cemco site. On the EZ you own is the bolt at the end of the bar ?

If yes then maybe that's what they mean by shoulder bolt..I don't know .

Why the snap ring design you ask..I thought that was suppose to be the best design ...am I wrong ?

Thanks for the links I'll head over and read some :)


;306769271']Blue - I have a Cemco (http://www.cemcofitness.com/) E-Z Curl Bar, and it's a nice bar, but there is no visable snap ring. It has a bolt holding the sleeve on like many bars. It's several years old, so they may have changed the design.

There is lots of good info on bars over at the Crossfit Equipment Forum (http://www.board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10&order=desc).

Also see How do I choose a weighlifting bar? (http://www.roguefitness.com/blog/?p=684) and Choosing a Weighlifting Bar - Part 2 (http://www.roguefitness.com/blog/?p=687) at Rogue Fitness.

Why do you want a bar with a snap ring design?

-- Eric

[Bluerain]

Only found 3 references to him, one of which was this thread lol! One of the others was a post here 2 years ago, if you read the bolded section at the bottom it explains his research;
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=8186074&postcount=42


Thanks for that post ..good read.

He does seem genuine in his post and admits he used Ivanko funds as
well as funds provided from Kell Equipment, Med-X, and Trotter to do tests.

Well at least we're getting somewhere here with these questions .

Thanks for your help :)

[[eric]]

Blue - If you will share with us your needs -- how you will use the bar, what type of exercises, how much weight you might load it with, and how much you are comfortable spending, it will be easier to help.

That said, if you look at the end of most any inexpensive barbell you will see something like:

http://www.americanfastener.com/images/techspec/316a.gif

This is a socket head shoulder bolt and holds the sleeve on the barbell. The "problem" with these is they can work loose, especially if you are dropping the barbell with weight on it.

Better quality bars usually use a roll pin, or a snap ring to hold the sleeve on. These have the advantage of using spring like tension, instead of threads.

Here is a picture of an internal snap ring (there are also external snap rings), and following is a Pendlay barbell where you can see the snap ring on the end of the bar. Next is a view from the other direction showing a snap ring retaining what looks like a bearing at the inside of the sleeve.

http://ec-images.acehardwareoutlet.com/225/products/2147012043_092708_hs.jpg

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-10840410867514_2040_7327513

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XfAQnJcVJeo/SZ3SmviZ0-I/AAAAAAAAOKk/ZC70a9xBzjA/s720/DSC00238.JPG

Snap rings make it easy (using snap ring pliers) to disassemble things for maintenance or repair.

A roll, or spring pin needs to be driven out by a punch to take something apart.

In the following image, the bar on the far right has a cap on the end of the bar that is holding the sleeve on. The hole in the cap is where the pin goes.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XfAQnJcVJeo/SZ3SjdjRGjI/AAAAAAAAOKA/d_0SGAJ3iUw/s720/DSC00235.JPG

And here is a view showing the end of that bar, where you can see the cap and the shaft it is pinned to.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XfAQnJcVJeo/SZ3SqHa-TDI/AAAAAAAAOLI/W6CetkzTetM/s720/DSC00241.JPG

Questions?

[IvankoBarbellCo]

Looking forward to that, the York power bar is on my shortlist of bars at the moment, would be great to see a similar one disected! A bar thread would be a great idea I think, they are pretty central part of a gym.



Only found 3 references to him, one of which was this thread lol! One of the others was a post here 2 years ago, if you read the bolded section at the bottom it explains his research;

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=8186074&postcount=42

Would like to know how his power rack stood up to those tests! No way of knowing of this is a real correspondence (looks genuine) and unfortunatley dosen't help with your question..



I've read the 'how to bend an olympic bar' and 'how to break an olympic bar' articles, both were part 1, are there any further parts? I couldn't find any.


Thanks for finding that Sutherland e-mail. I didn't know about that. Yes, next article is probably going to be How to Break an Olympic Bar, Part II, and will feature, a very recent and extremely tragic anecdote about a guy who was using a bar. The bar snapped and was violently brought down by the weight on one end of the bar. The jagged edge of the broken bar ripped the guys scrotum.

[joe--]

Hey I posted this in another thread, but since this thread has got a few responses already, thought I'd put it here...

"
You get what you pay for.

That bar is going to rust, the knurling is going to be like a cheese grater, and the sleeves aren't gonna spin for ****.

I've been looking at barbells as well, (from aussie sites)(check here:http://www.gymandfitness.com.au/barbells-olympic-50mm-c-22_31.html) and the site that i'm looking at now, sells a few. So what should i be looking for? The one I want is rated to 700lbs, and is damn good pricing, and then there is one rated to 1500lbs, an extra 60 or so bucks. Then there are two heavy duty bars...

So what should I be looking for? Other than the max weights, what will differ between the bars? Why would the bar rust, I would have thought the coating on each would be the same? The knurlin..I assume the bit down the middle..why is it going to e like a cheese grater...and what will that mean, (i.e how will it affect the bar)? And the sleeves? They spin? What part of them, and why do they spin?

Sorry, only ever used standard stuff, help is much appreciated and reps to those who help.
EDIT: Also, I'm only going to be using the bar for stuff like squats/bench/shrugs/deadlifts ect, not any Oly Lifts when i drop the bar from over my head... So I want the bar to survive if I break in the middle of a squat, if i break, so will a basic Olympic Barbell survive that sort of stuff?"