How do you guage?

[jetnic13]

I was just wondering how other people gauge wether or not a workout was productive. I say this because my workouts vary all the time. I may have a day where I do 15-18 sets for a specific muscle group and then the next time that same muscle group comes up I might only do 10 sets. Rep ranges run anywhere from 4-12 all of my workouts.

So I guess I guage by a feel and body compisition changes. I tend to get an intense a sudden weakening of power output and may push 1 or 2 more sets beyond that point like I did the other day into PUKE STAGE! I usually leave my workout feeling as though they were effective. However on the other side I have had workouts where I worked hard but have an internal feeling I cut myself short on getting an effective workout.

So is there a better way than by feel to guage the effectivness of a workout?
I have absolutely been making gains, but I am just curious if there is a way I can be more effective.

[bustasinclair]

I've been feeling like this lately myself.....haven't quite pushed myself to PUKE stage yet, but Sunday, I did have to stop and buy a protein drink from the fitness center in order to complete my century set of full squats, haha.

I find that my shoulder/abs workout leaves me feeling like I went to work and hid under my desk all day. I honestly try not to worry about it and just hit it as hard as possible the next time.

[jetnic13]

I guess my biggest concern is not that I'm hitting it hard enough. My biggest concearn is overtraining. What is the best guage to insure I'm not depleting possible gains through overtraining?

[bustasinclair]

I guess my biggest concern is not that I'm hitting it hard enough. My biggest concearn is overtraining. What is the best guage to insure I'm not depleting possible gains through overtraining?

Well, I'm certainly no expert, but IMHO, I think my body will pull me aside and tell me to cut it out if I start to overtrain. I have a tendon in my deltoid that started to speak very loudly in early Feb., so I knew to take it down a notch. That nagging injury has caused me to stall on BP at 290--no increase since 1/31/2009 :(

[jetnic13]

Thank you for your input. I suppose your probably right. It's just that the gym is a sanctuary for me right with all that's going on in my life, and I can't hardly stand taking off days right now. If only it were a perfect world. Any veteran lifters out there have any input on guaging overtraining.

Oh, and sorry all but I suppose my post should have just been a simple how do you guage overtraining?

[EnigmaPower]

I was just wondering how other people gauge wether or not a workout was productive. A workout is more productive than sitting home on the couch watching American Idol (should be Mythbusters).


I say this because my workouts vary all the time.Change is good but there must be a reason. Change for the sake of change is....well....er...stupid :)

[jetnic13]

I agree on both points EnigmaPower, but still want to find out if there is a better way to determine if I'm overtraining by a means other than my body breaking down.

[EnigmaPower]

I agree on both points EnigmaPower, but still want to find out if there is a better way to determine if I'm overtraining by a means other than my body breaking down.

Lack of appetite is usually one of the first signs but that could be due to a myriad of other causes too.

Resting pulse being higher than usual is another sign but again that could be many other causes.

List goes on and on and on like the energizer bunny of lists :)

[Delaware_Dad]

I agree on both points EnigmaPower, but still want to find out if there is a better way to determine if I'm overtraining by a means other than my body breaking down.

IMHO, Ovetraining is more an individual thing I think. Each person's body is diff..

I usually stick to a work out, same reps, movements and sets for a period of time (4-5 weeks) then periodically add more lbs to the lifts at intervals.

I usually get introuble and overtrain when I add an additional set or go too heavy to soon when I should be sticking to the workout.

I def have those days like you say where you seem to never hit E on the gas tank and then others where I struggle...

But... You gotta listen to your own body... If this were all an exact science we'd all be on the same program, doing the same stuff and all be like Mr O.....

[jetnic13]

That is interesting that you mention both of those symptoms because I'm suffering both of those right now, but like you said it could from alot of other things. I suppose I'm just going to force myself to take a coulple days to rest and recouperate.

[dkemano42]

I guess my biggest concern is not that I'm hitting it hard enough. My biggest concearn is overtraining. What is the best guage to insure I'm not depleting possible gains through overtraining?

Hey,

If you get to the point where you dont feel like going in to the gym, you are tired all the time, you are getting more injuries than normal, don't feel like eating...these could all be signs of over training. As long as you keep your volume in check, get 7 to 8 hours of sleep, are eating well and feel good about working out you are good to go....Also, make sure you take your days off and use them as OFF days no gym..hehehe...I have a hard time with off days, but make myself stay away and relax a bit.

DK

[jetnic13]

IMHO, Ovetraining is more an individual thing I think. Each person's body is diff..

I usually stick to a work out, same reps, movements and sets for a period of time (4-5 weeks) then periodically add more lbs to the lifts at intervals.

I usually get introuble and overtrain when I add an additional set or go too heavy to soon when I should be sticking to the workout.

I def have those days like you say where you seem to never hit E on the gas tank and then others where I struggle...

But... You gotta listen to your own body... If this were all an exact science we'd all be on the same program, doing the same stuff and all be like Mr O.....

Makes alot of sense man. I'm signing off for now. Life stress just has my thoughts jumbled right now.

[EnigmaPower]

Makes alot of sense man. I'm signing off for now. Life stress just has my thoughts jumbled right now.

Jumbled thoughts are a sign of overtraining but can be caused by myriads of other reasons :)

[Iron Barbarian]

IT usually is three factors for me- 1) I have a hellacious pump 2) I feel like I am going to pass out and 3) I feel like I am going to puke. When I get to all three of these in combination with each other, I feel my work is done for that session.

[ironwill2008]

Thank you for your input. I suppose your probably right. It's just that the gym is a sanctuary for me right with all that's going on in my life, and I can't hardly stand taking off days right now. If only it were a perfect world. Any veteran lifters out there have any input on guaging overtraining.

Oh, and sorry all but I suppose my post should have just been a simple how do you guage overtraining?


The best/simplest indicator of "overtraining" (I really don't like that term), is that your lifts aren't progressing. If you're unable to add weight/reps on a fairly regular basis, then your rest and/or nutrition is inadequate to support the amount of training you're currently doing.

[Wildtim]

The way I guage the effectivness of a workout is to write everything down, then repaet exactly the same workout while adding weight only, or reps only. That way I can easily see the progression from light to heavy or from few to many. If you don't ever do the same workout twice I have no idea how you would guage any ones effectivness.

To me it sounds like the way you are doing things you might hit upon the perfect workout for your body, one that would turn you into Arnold if you stuck with it for a year, but you would never know it because the next time it would be completely different. If you are gaining great, but I don't think you would be asking this if you didn't think you could be gaining faster.

I've never understood how anyone without a plan could tell the were progressing towards their goals.

[LyingSac]

when i finally find my keys and i'm draggin my self out like the terminator wit no legs.........thump drag...thump drag

[GnomusMaximus]

Was it fun? Do I feel better about the world at the end than at the start? That's pretty much it.

[jetnic13]

when i finally find my keys and i'm draggin my self out like the terminator wit no legs.........thump drag...thump drag

Once again LyingSac you have brought my motivation level up.:D When I get to the weights tonight I'm walking out of there until everyone thinks I'm demon possed because I'm spewing chunks like the Exorcist!:D Thanks for the lift LyingSac.

[jetnic13]

Was it fun? Do I feel better about the world at the end than at the start? That's pretty much it.

I like the simplicity of your gauge. That just might be the secret key. Have fun! Move the weight. Eat good. Feel better. Thanks guys. I'm back and I ain't letting no life circumstances break me down!

[KLMARB]

The best way to evaluate a stimulus is to analyze the response. Since the desired result is muscular hypertrophy, the the stimulus delivered would have to reach the exertion level that would result in a macrophage response. I.E. you have to create enough stress/microdamage to result in some degree of muscle soreness/stiffness the next day. If you can't feel it to some degree the next day, you probably didn't work the muscle hard enough....

[LyingSac]

Once again LyingSac you have brought my motivation level up.:D When I get to the weights tonight I'm walking out of there until everyone thinks I'm demon possed because I'm spewing chunks like the Exorcist!:D Thanks for the lift LyingSac.

I already been to the gym once,i'll be going back for abs and cardio this evening....don't let this old man catch you..........

[jetnic13]

I already been to the gym once,i'll be going back for abs and cardio this evening....don't let this old man catch you..........

LOL! Right on.

[jetnic13]

The best way to evaluate a stimulus is to analyze the response. Since the desired result is muscular hypertrophy, the the stimulus delivered would have to reach the exertion level that would result in a macrophage response. I.E. you have to create enough stress/microdamage to result in some degree of muscle soreness/stiffness the next day. If you can't feel it to some degree the next day, you probably didn't work the muscle hard enough....

I would say that sounds true. So in your opinion if you have a training session that keeps you sore for 3-4 days would that be considered overtraining? I'm talking about the deep tissue soreness that makes normal every day functions unpleasant. I haven't had that kind of soreness for awhile, but have had it happen. I have heard that the deep tissue soreness can actually cause muscle depletion. Is deep tissue soreness damaging fact or fiction?

[egoatdoor]

I was just wondering how other people gauge wether or not a workout was productive. I say this because my workouts vary all the time. I may have a day where I do 15-18 sets for a specific muscle group and then the next time that same muscle group comes up I might only do 10 sets. Rep ranges run anywhere from 4-12 all of my workouts.

So I guess I guage by a feel and body compisition changes. I tend to get an intense a sudden weakening of power output and may push 1 or 2 more sets beyond that point like I did the other day into PUKE STAGE! I usually leave my workout feeling as though they were effective. However on the other side I have had workouts where I worked hard but have an internal feeling I cut myself short on getting an effective workout.

So is there a better way than by feel to guage the effectivness of a workout?
I have absolutely been making gains, but I am just curious if there is a way I can be more effective.

You are right in that the body in the mirror is the ultimate scorecard, but you point out why IMO that constantly changing the workout makes it impossible to rate a workout because the variables are always changing.

I've more and more felt the "muscle confusion" and the "body adapts" theories are misguided and that more systematic planned in advance workouts in which the goal each workout is to increase the weight or the number of reps on each exercise is a much more disciplined and effective
way to build more muscle in the long run. Do that and you can quantify true progress.

[JonnyStead]

I was just wondering how other people gauge wether or not a workout was productive. I say this because my workouts vary all the time. I may have a day where I do 15-18 sets for a specific muscle group and then the next time that same muscle group comes up I might only do 10 sets. Rep ranges run anywhere from 4-12 all of my workouts.

So I guess I guage by a feel and body compisition changes. I tend to get an intense a sudden weakening of power output and may push 1 or 2 more sets beyond that point like I did the other day into PUKE STAGE! I usually leave my workout feeling as though they were effective. However on the other side I have had workouts where I worked hard but have an internal feeling I cut myself short on getting an effective workout.

So is there a better way than by feel to guage the effectivness of a workout?
I have absolutely been making gains, but I am just curious if there is a way I can be more effective.

I'm very careful about how much I lift - its all written down, Sets, reps, weights used etc. So I dont really know if a workout was productive until next time when, taking into consideration the workout and how I've eaten since, if I can 'increase the numbers' even by 1lb or 1 rep from last time, I know it was a productive workout.

[jetnic13]

You are right in that the body in the mirror is the ultimate scorecard, but you point out why IMO that constantly changing the workout makes it impossible to rate a workout because the variables are always changing.

I've more and more felt the "muscle confusion" and the "body adapts" theories are misguided and that more systematic planned in advance workouts in which the goal each workout is to increase the weight or the number of reps on each exercise is a much more disciplined and effective
way to build more muscle in the long run. Do that and you can quantify true progress.

Yep egoatdoor I know that you and Wildtim are right that planned and journaled workouts will give me a much better guage as to progress I am making. I do plan on logging my workouts now to help better guage the progress and effectiveness of my workouts.

I have also decided that due to my concerns of over training. I am going to have 2-3 days where I will do either some light core work or low intensity cardio work instead weight training. I appreciate everyones input into this post. Clarity and light hath been shed upon me. LET THE GAINS COMMENCE! :D

I have also decide to take pictures at the beginning of every month as supplement to the log to guage my effectiveness.

[Jake Levi]

Good thread, thanks for all of the input.

At my age I am concerned about over training, and balancing that with enough, my goal is building strength and endurance, I've just changed from a 3 day workout to a 4 day, M,T, TH,Fri and feel more rested, how I feel when I leave the gym is a major feedback to me, I was concerned about dozing in the afternoons while watching news, but now figure its the boring news.

I'm making gains, not as fast as I want but I have always been impatient. So I'll look at it again in a month, I am setting goals for the month as I go along, and so far its working, 5-10lbs on different exercises, or added reps between weight increases,

we'll see.

I appreciate all the input here even if I'm not contributing much yet.

[mitchydakid]

I agree with all of the above. If your mood seems out of whack, ur lifts aren't improving over time,etc. The best indicator is just by body feel. If u feel like ur recovery time is lagging, ur unusually sore etc. The hardest thing to do once ur hooked, is relaize that those rest days are vital.



gl

[chodan9]

I think true overtraining is kind of rare in the non professional arena, I do think under-resting is very common though.

[egoatdoor]

I think true overtraining is kind of rare in the non professional arena, I do think under-resting is very common though.

Chodan, can you define "under resting" in that context?

[jetnic13]

I think true overtraining is kind of rare in the non professional arena, I do think under-resting is very common though.

That almost sounds like some kind of Chinese Proverb! I'm trying to figure it out. It just sounds cool, and I want to understand. :)

[LyingSac]

what young weedhopper is saying....by not resting enough inbetween sets you lose the ability to do one or two more reps,which in turn breakes the muscle down more,giving it the ability to grow more......ahso?

[jetnic13]

I would say that sounds true. So in your opinion if you have a training session that keeps you sore for 3-4 days would that be considered overtraining? I'm talking about the deep tissue soreness that makes normal every day functions unpleasant. I haven't had that kind of soreness for awhile, but have had it happen. I have heard that the deep tissue soreness can actually cause muscle depletion. Is deep tissue soreness damaging fact or fiction?

LyingSac in light of what you have just said. What is your opinion on my above quote?

[KLMARB]

I would say that sounds true. So in your opinion if you have a training session that keeps you sore for 3-4 days would that be considered overtraining? I'm talking about the deep tissue soreness that makes normal every day functions unpleasant. I haven't had that kind of soreness for awhile, but have had it happen. I have heard that the deep tissue soreness can actually cause muscle depletion. Is deep tissue soreness damaging fact or fiction?

I believe what you are referring to is called DOMS (delayed onset muscle stiffness/soreness). I consider soreness that develops after more than one day to be DOMS (I'm sure others disagree). Again, it can be a matter of degree and other factors such as change of routine, exercises, etc. Since there is always an adaptation factor involved in change, the question is, is the soreness merely the response of adaptation? Since periodization is so important due to the mix of different muscle fibers present in each muscle, is the soreness true DOMS? (which could possibly indicate overtraining) Quite possible, depending on routine. I myself believe there is a DOMS-nutrition connection, as I've found that if I don't let my protein intake drop, I rarely experience DOMS, even while alway striving to work my muscles a little differently as much as possible..Sorry, no hard answers......