Does adding a fiber powder cancel carbs

[dav7612r]

I was just thinking about this last night. We use fiber to subtract total carbs. Does adding a fiber sunstitute to something cancel out carbs???

[rhizome]

I was just thinking about this last night. We use fiber to subtract total carbs. Does adding a fiber sunstitute to something cancel out carbs???
Wut? You don't add fiber and subtract from total carbs. That's just assinine. You just wouldn't add the fiber numbers to NET carbs.

[Holyspokes]

Wut? You don't add fiber and subtract from total carbs. That's just assinine. You just wouldn't add the fiber numbers to NET carbs.

I've never really been concerned with this.. but what is that actual calories gained from fiber? They can be converted to short chain fatty acids correct? Isn't it something like 1/3 of the calories or something? so 1-2 calories per gram of fiber?

[in10city]

I've never really been concerned with this.. but what is that actual calories gained from fiber? They can be converted to short chain fatty acids correct? Isn't it something like 1/3 of the calories or something? so 1-2 calories per gram of fiber?
Right - moreso with soluble fiber and more readily fermentable fibers - which are fermented in the lower intestine and reabsorbed as short chain fatty acids - yielding anywhere from 1-3 kcal/gram.

[Holyspokes]

Right - moreso with soluble fiber and more readily fermentable fibers - which are fermented in the lower intestine and reabsorbed as short chain fatty acids - yielding anywhere from 1-3 kcal/gram.

reps on recharge

[Emma-Leigh]

I just wrote a response re this exact issue here:



Fiber...like all carbohydrates...has 4 calories per gram.

Here's what your mom missed....

Your body does not have the enzymes to digest hard cellulose fibers. So...for every 1g of fiber in a food...you can technically multiply that by 4.....subtract that total calorie count from the total...and arrive at your "digestible calories"

I recommend counting everything but....this is how "net carbohydrates" became a marketing rage....

Notice how a lot of people say that high fiber foods like All Bran/Fiber One go "right through them"....that's why....you can't digest those fibers....those calories.
--- >>> Fiber has between 1.5-3 cals/ gram depending on type...
I have no issue with someone adding ++. Especially with the appauling state of most peoples diets these days.
Not only will it help with her diet (fills you up) but it also helps with things like preventing bowel cancer and other nasties.

A few 'be careful' things though:
1. Make sure she adds +++ water too - to prevent back up issue you need to 'keep things hydrated' otherwise think 'rocks in a pipe'.... :eek:

2. Be careful with other essential vitamins and minerals. Due to the digestability issue with some of the types of fiber (as mentioned above) it 'binds' nutrients in the gut. Specifically things like calcium and iron - which are important for woman with their bones (osteoporosis) and their increased iron needs (due to menstruatiom if your mum is still doing this).

3. As you say - the fiber also binds other calories in the gut. It is only seen with +++ loads... but it does occur and it mostly protein and fats that are impacted... This means she is also going to have to be careful regarding getting ENOUGH of these things away from the fiber meals to ensure she maintains her overall health. If she doesn't - she'll simply not be able to maintain her nutritional needs (that is - not just her ENERGY requirement, but also her NUTRIENT requirement) and that = malnutrition and sickness in the long run.

[Holyspokes]

I just wrote a response re this exact issue here:

Well regarding the post that you just quoted... How much do you think is TOO much. As far as diminished nutrient intake? I easily get 80-100g per day, while eating 5k or so calories.

[DJSTARER]

the OP is confused. He things the fiber listed on nutritional labels is separate from the carbohydrate content. That is, he doesn't realize that fiber IS a carbohydrate, and the only reason people "subtract" it from the total carbohydrates is because (as mentioned above) it has a smaller caloric value. Adding fiber to a meal just does that... adds fiber.

[Emma-Leigh]

Usually anything over about 45-50g is considered 'high'....

The impact it is having?? Hard to say - but I remember seeing an article one which determined the impact it had on fat/ protein digestion specifically (I'll see if I can pull it out).

In the meantime - A few things to read:
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/127/4/579
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/118/9/1075
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1649
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/120/11/1331
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9361828
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/62/5/1158S

[in10city]

To add to this, the phytate content of the fiber source appears to be a significant factor on the absorption of many of the minerals Emma mentioned.

Food preparation would also be a factor in mitigating the effects of things like oxalic acid.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/129/7/1434S
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16151969
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10900553
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9650723
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12514257
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8829129
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1657026
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2986446
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2821800

[stevejuice]

on nutrition facts panels fiber is counted at 4 calories per gram...thats when you can subtract the calories from the food your eating....but if you eat 20 grams of carbs and then 20 grabs of fiber it won't cancel out the carbs

[in10city]

on nutrition facts panels fiber is counted at 4 calories per gram...thats when you can subtract the calories from the food your eating....but if you eat 20 grams of carbs and then 20 grabs of fiber it won't cancel out the carbs
Not completely correct depending upon the calculation method used.


(i) Caloric content may be calculated by the following methods. Where either specific or general food factors are used, the factors shall be applied to the actual amount (i.e., before rounding) of food components (e.g., fat, carbohydrate, protein, or ingredients with specific food factors) present per serving.

...

(C) Using the general factors of 4, 4, and 9 calories per gram for protein, total carbohydrate less the amount of insoluble dietary fiber, and total fat, respectively

http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/101-9-nutrition-labeling-food-19705624

[Holyspokes]

Usually anything over about 45-50g is considered 'high'....

The impact it is having?? Hard to say - but I remember seeing an article one which determined the impact it had on fat/ protein digestion specifically (I'll see if I can pull it out).

In the meantime - A few things to read:
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/127/4/579
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/118/9/1075
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/86/6/1649
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/120/11/1331
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9361828
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/62/5/1158S

THanks. From one of the links "fiber intake should be a minimum of 15-20 g/1000 Kcal."

If I'm eating 5k calories, than 80-100g of fiber, isn't THAT high.. is it?

Either way, I think I'm going to try to reduce it a bit.

[dav7612r]

the OP is confused. He things the fiber listed on nutritional labels is separate from the carbohydrate content. That is, he doesn't realize that fiber IS a carbohydrate, and the only reason people "subtract" it from the total carbohydrates is because (as mentioned above) it has a smaller caloric value. Adding fiber to a meal just does that... adds fiber.

For us diabetics fiber has no effect on blood sugar, so we subtract fiber from total cards to get a correct insulin dose, otherwise we overdose and get low blood sugar.

[jvaughan08]

well your body cannot absorb fiber, so typically when a food has fiber they will subtract those calories from the net calorie amount in the food you are consuming, since it us classified as a carbohydrate, and carbohydrates typically are four calories per gram, so if something had 4 grams of fiber there would subtract about 13-16 calories. i think it depends on the person when it comes to consuming too much fiber. i know to much can cause intestinal discomfort. also too much fiber can bind calcium, magnesium, and zinc, making it so your body does not absorb them as effectively as you would like. I think that it is all timing, if you eat 60 grams of fiber per day, spread throughout six meals, that would be good. I eat alot of fiber myself, but everyone is different