Ammonia smell

[Holyspokes]

I've read various things about why someone might start smelling ammonia. Often times it seems it is because of a low carb diet. Could it also occur from a high calorie expenditure, with moderate-high carbs(400+g)? I'm interested in any and all of the scientific reasons why someone might smell ammonia, either after a meal or during exercise.

I ask because I often smell ammonia in my nose either after a meal or during strenuous exercise (weights as well as cardio). I probably eat at the minimum 400g of carbs a day..





If this topic is deemed not to belong here, go ahead and move it.

[wave_length]

I've read various things about why someone might start smelling ammonia. Often times it seems it is because of a low carb diet. Could it also occur from a high calorie expenditure, with moderate-high carbs(400+g)? I'm interested in any and all of the scientific reasons why someone might smell ammonia, either after a meal or during exercise.

I ask because I often smell ammonia in my nose either after a meal or during strenuous exercise (weights as well as cardio). I probably eat at the minimum 400g of carbs a day..

If this topic is deemed not to belong here, go ahead and move it.

When I tried keto diets, I had it constantly.
On low carb diets I had it occasionally.
Never on moderate to high carb diets.

[in10city]

What's your carb intake and what else are you eating before exercise? How's your fluid intake? All your organs AOK? Intensity and duration of exercise?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ammonia.htm

[Holyspokes]

What's your carb intake and what else are you eating before exercise? How's your fluid intake? All your organs AOK? Intensity and duration of exercise?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ammonia.htm

I drink just as much fluid as I always have before I started smelling ammonia, at least 16oz with each meal usually.

For example today (in terms of carbs) I had 2 cups of oats, a cup of blueberries for breakfast, an apple and a cup of oats at like 12, at 2pm I had around 16oz of sweet potatoes. After the sweet potatoes I started smelling ammonia.

The only activity I've done so far today is ride my back back and forth to/from school, which was maybe 6 miles total (at a super easy pace)

[rhizome]

I drink just as much fluid as I always have before I started smelling ammonia, at least 16oz with each meal usually.

For example today (in terms of carbs) I had 2 cups of oats, a cup of blueberries for breakfast, an apple and a cup of oats at like 12, at 2pm I had around 16oz of sweet potatoes. After the sweet potatoes I started smelling ammonia.

The only activity I've done so far today is ride my back back and forth to/from school, which was maybe 6 miles total (at a super easy pace)
Unless you are eating an excessive amount of protein, I'd see a doctor because randomly smelling it after eating just ain't normal. Something like uremia would be worst case.

[PopeGregorius]

Its the breakdown of urea in your sweat to ammonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea#In_humans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_volatilization_from_urea
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/e/3/ae319e4c030e1d05d2c8f7f4fbb91958.png

[Holyspokes]

I don't have the papers with me right now, but I did get some tests done that mentioned something about "ammonia toxicity" in my urine. I'm pretty sure a couple of things have come up abnormal with my kidneys as well. None of my doctors seemed to concerned about it though.

[Holyspokes]

Its the breakdown of urea in your sweat to ammonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea#In_humans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_volatilization_from_urea
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/e/3/ae319e4c030e1d05d2c8f7f4fbb91958.png

I think that may be part of it.. but the smell isn't from my body or sweat. Only I can smell it, it seems like it is in my nose. And I get it often when I am no where near sweating.

[Emma-Leigh]

I think that may be part of it.. but the smell isn't from my body or sweat. Only I can smell it, it seems like it is in my nose. And I get it often when I am no where near sweating.
Are we talking 'pee' or body in general?
Is it associated with specific foods (eg: garlic can often cause people to smell funny.... cumin can do the same. Asparagus can make urine 'off')?
Any signs of other illness (eg: intestinal upsets)?
Any signs or family history of metabolic abnormalities (diabetes esp. so, but also odd inborn errors of metabolism)?
Supplements/ Meds you are taking?
Can ANYONE else smell it?

[Holyspokes]

Are we talking 'pee' or body in general?
Is it associated with specific foods (eg: garlic can often cause people to smell funny.... cumin can do the same. Asparagus can make urine 'off')?
Any signs of other illness (eg: intestinal upsets)?
Any signs or family history of metabolic abnormalities (diabetes esp. so, but also odd inborn errors of metabolism)?
Supplements/ Meds you are taking?
Can ANYONE else smell it?

1) No
2) Nope
3) Nope, don't notice any thing else at the same time
4) Nope
5) No
6) nope

[Emma-Leigh]

1) No
2) Nope
3) Nope, don't notice any thing else at the same time
4) Nope
5) No
6) nope
With > 400g carbs/ day... and if your fat intake is adequate.... It is hard to believe that you would be defaulting to amino-acid metabolism for fuel... Not without an underlying disease state... And if NO ONE else can smell it - this decreases the likelihood too...

So - You should try to clarify if there is actually *a smell* or not.
But after that, if there IS a smell (for you) my immediate 'first point of call' options would be:

1. You could have a health concern you are unaware of ( ie: get your BSL checked just to make sure glucose handling is appropriate... get yourself checked for underlying digestive disease - sometimes people with gastric ulcers/ helicobacter infection can taste/ smell ammonia )

2. you could be reacting to something you are eating - so change foods around and see if it makes a difference...

3. consider increasing fats... if it IS the case that you have some odd abnormality in glucose disposal and/or amino-acid metabolism leading to increased ammonia/by-product production you might be able to 'bypass' this by defaulting back to FA as a more readily available fuel...

3. Sinus infection :rolleyes:

4. You are, infact, experiencing olfactory hallucinations and are either going crazy... or having temperal lobe seizures ( :o :p )

[Holyspokes]

With > 400g carbs/ day... and if your fat intake is adequate.... It is hard to believe that you would be defaulting to amino-acid metabolism for fuel... Not without an underlying disease state... And if NO ONE else can smell it - this decreases the likelihood too...

So - You should try to clarify if there is actually *a smell* or not.
But after that, if there IS a smell (for you) my immediate 'first point of call' options would be:

1. You could have a health concern you are unaware of ( ie: get your BSL checked just to make sure glucose handling is appropriate... get yourself checked for underlying digestive disease - sometimes people with gastric ulcers/ helicobacter infection can taste/ smell ammonia )

2. you could be reacting to something you are eating - so change foods around and see if it makes a difference...

3. consider increasing fats... if it IS the case that you have some odd abnormality in glucose disposal and/or amino-acid metabolism leading to increased ammonia/by-product production you might be able to 'bypass' this by defaulting back to FA as a more readily available fuel...

3. Sinus infection :rolleyes:

4. You are, infact, experiencing olfactory hallucinations and are either going crazy... or having temperal lobe seizures ( :o :p )

lol #4 made me laugh. Thanks emma.

I've gotten my BSL checked in the past... I know on the last one I had breakfast before getting bloodwork done, and my BSL was (well Glucose) was 62. Which I thought was wierd to be that low in non-fasted state (~1 hr after oats,eggs)

#3 I was thinking might be the case.. do you have any more information about these? How would I go about determining this? I eat pretty high fat diet already, but I can always eat more.


Is it possible that my muscle glycogen is constantly at a very low state? And I am only maintaining this low state with my diet, despite a relatively high carbohydrate intake? I am fairly active

Could it be because of excess fiber? I don't take any kind of fiber supplement, but do eat a lot of whole foods. I don't think I eat THAT much though..
BTW my BUN: has been consistently high (27-37 in the past 8 months)

[Holyspokes]

I was thinking of picking up some ketostix.. or whatever they're called and seeing what happens. Do you think this could tell me anything?

[Emma-Leigh]

lol #4 made me laugh. Thanks emma.
:o (if you can't find another reason for it.... might not be something too far out of left field...)


I've gotten my BSL checked in the past... I know on the last one I had breakfast before getting bloodwork done, and my BSL was (well Glucose) was 62. Which I thought was wierd to be that low in non-fasted state (~1 hr after oats,eggs)
Converting over to Aussie terms.... About a 3.5.... T'is a touch low for a random sample. Esp so close to eating... although what you ate wasn't exactly going to 'spike' your blood levels and being young/ fit/ active/ shredded person usually = very sensitive to insulin and good glucose disposal (thus food ---> partitioned / used pretty quickly and easily). But it is something you should keep an eye on and if you were to start to dip under about 2.5-3, esp. when fed (about a 40-50 I think??) then you should certainly get looking further....
(there are a bunch of things to look at - and most of which are so very rare that you would be bloody unlucky to have them.... but they are pretty icky if you do have them so you need to rule them out.... insulinoma, specific types of pit. tumours, addisons dz.... hmmm.... liver failure can sometimes do it <-- you haven't noticed yourself turning yellow lately have you.... :o ).....

However -> IF it IS the case that you are experiencing olfactory changes... AND you have low BGL.... AND there are other things going on with your hormones/ body/ health THEN I would suggest you go and get seen by specialists. Maybe look into pit. issues (base of brain things) --> as these can be linked (growths in bottom of skull can affect your olfactory nerves/ inputs).

Have you had a head CT/ MRI?


#3 I was thinking might be the case.. do you have any more information about these? How would I go about determining this? I eat pretty high fat diet already, but I can always eat more.
DM would be the number one to rule out in your age group (although unlikely because of low random BG)... If you have low BGL then you really should be looking into the opposite of DM (insulinoma).

The others things are +++++++ rare.... And you would have probably noticed/ been picked up as a kid.... Either that or developed significant neurological disease along the way and be unable to do anything by drool by this age.... :o

If you were to google/wiki: inborn errors of metabolism you'll likely pick up some stuff.

(ps -> reason why I asked about supplements is that high levels of choline in your diet can do it (although you usually get more of a 'fish' smell :o ) so just double check your diet/ supplements to see if there is anything that could be playing a role there).


Is it possible that my muscle glycogen is constantly at a very low state? And I am only maintaining this low state with my diet, despite a relatively high carbohydrate intake? I am fairly active
hmmmm...... Yes and no... If you AREEEE extremely active then POSSIBLY.... But I doubt it if you are hitting 400g carbs and you have a higher fat diet..... Also - If no one else can smell it... unlikely again... usually people ooze 'smell' (pee/ sweat/ breath etc).

You could swap around your diet and see if it helps?
- 7-8g/ pound carbs (esp if you are doing endurance stuff - so about 500-600g)...
- Aim for a minimum of 0.5 x weight in fat (85g)... Or 30-35% total cal intake...
-Then protein to between 1-1.25g per pound then up your fat and carbs....
That would probably take you up to near on 4000 cals....


Could it be because of excess fiber? I don't take any kind of fiber supplement, but do eat a lot of whole foods. I don't think I eat THAT much though..
Not that I know of... But I might not know...
Hmmm.... maybe if said fibre was from garlic... in which case... you got to eat less garlic. :o


BTW my BUN: has been consistently high (27-37 in the past 8 months)
First thought/most likely: High protein diet ===> high BUN...
Second thought/less likely: Kidney issues ===> what is your creatinine doing?
Third thought/ unlikely: Inborn errors of metabolism


I was thinking of picking up some ketostix.. or whatever they're called and seeing what happens. Do you think this could tell me anything?
It would tell you if you have ketones in your urine.... that'd be about it....

[Holyspokes]

:o (if you can't find another reason for it.... might not be something too far out of left field...)


Converting over to Aussie terms.... About a 3.5.... T'is a touch low for a random sample. Esp so close to eating... although what you ate wasn't exactly going to 'spike' your blood levels and being young/ fit/ active/ shredded person usually = very sensitive to insulin and good glucose disposal (thus food ---> partitioned / used pretty quickly and easily). But it is something you should keep an eye on and if you were to start to dip under about 2.5-3, esp. when fed (about a 40-50 I think??) then you should certainly get looking further....
(there are a bunch of things to look at - and most of which are so very rare that you would be bloody unlucky to have them.... but they are pretty icky if you do have them so you need to rule them out.... insulinoma, specific types of pit. tumours, addisons dz.... hmmm.... liver failure can sometimes do it <-- you haven't noticed yourself turning yellow lately have you.... :o ).....

However -> IF it IS the case that you are experiencing olfactory changes... AND you have low BGL.... AND there are other things going on with your hormones/ body/ health THEN I would suggest you go and get seen by specialists. Maybe look into pit. issues (base of brain things) --> as these can be linked (growths in bottom of skull can affect your olfactory nerves/ inputs).

Have you had a head CT/ MRI?


I have been diagnosed with a pituitary adenoma, they said it's a small cyst (although it's solid, inside the pituitary). It's very small (3x5mm I believe) and none of the specialist i've seen seem to be concerned about it.

I'm starting to think that is the reason for more then just my abnormally low testosterone..

As far as nutrition/diet goes... On day's I do cardio I always eat upwards of 500g carbs, with at least 150g fat, around 200-220g protein. So plenty of fat in there, even on days I don't do long rides I eat that much fat.





First thought/most likely: High protein diet ===> high BUN...
Second thought/less likely: Kidney issues ===> what is your creatinine doing?
Third thought/ unlikely: Inborn errors of metabolism


I wouldn't consider my diet that high in protein really, it could be lower of course. My creatinine has been within normal ranges. So my BUN/Creatinine ratio is high

[Emma-Leigh]

I have been diagnosed with a pituitary adenoma, they said it's a small cyst (although it's solid, inside the pituitary). It's very small (3x5mm I believe) and none of the specialist i've seen seem to be concerned about it.

I'm starting to think that is the reason for more then just my abnormally low testosterone..
If the specialists have looked at your scans/ results and have felt that it is not of a size to be concerned over/ and that it is not secreting hormones that could be causing issues (eg: prolactin) then this is probably the case. Most pit. ademona's that small are actually 'silent' (just sit around doing 'nothing' until you die) - they are usually just incidental findings...

So you might find some of your issues stem from your ungodly low BF% + your ^^^ exercise level.


As far as nutrition/diet goes... On day's I do cardio I always eat upwards of 500g carbs, with at least 150g fat, around 200-220g protein. So plenty of fat in there, even on days I don't do long rides I eat that much fat.

I wouldn't consider my diet that high in protein really, it could be lower of course. My creatinine has been within normal ranges. So my BUN/Creatinine ratio is high
1. Your diet is high in protein in comparison to 'recommended' amounts
2. If creatinine is ok, then your kidneys are likely ok and once again high BUN would probably = high protein diet (t'is also seen to increase post exercise... and in pregnancy :o ).
3. If BUN increases, BUN: creatinine ratio increases ;)

[reefpicker]

I think that may be part of it.. but the smell isn't from my body or sweat. Only I can smell it, it seems like it is in my nose. And I get it often when I am no where near sweating.

Interesting... You know, this might sound far fetch to you, but you do not have an ammonia sense of smell per se. Rather, it is pH. Maybe your problem has to do with pulmonary ventilation? IDK Just an idea. Do you have any kind of issue regarding your breathing? You may also have some rare problem with your sense of smell.

The more I read this, the more I am inclined to think that you might have an issue with pH or smell per se. If it continues, I suggest you go to a really good doctor, and have him check you...

The work I did for my MS was respiration physiology. We used ammonia to change the pH of the chemoreceptors in the animal's lung. They actually respond to changes in pH because CO2 normally changes the pH. They are a type of CO2 receptor. But my advisor had discovered that they had these receptors that also respond to the rate of change of pH, and he mentioned to me some odd story about WWII refuggees or something, and he said that when they where in these CO2 chambers or some sort of thing like that, that when they came out of the HIGH CO2 environment they said they smelled ammonia, but that was just an account.. My advisor then told me, he thought eureka! because the reason they smell ammonia is because they associate that smell with ammonia but its really there nose chemoreceptors responding to an increase in pH.

Hope the story made sense.

Bottom line: see a good doctor. a smart one. that would be my suggestion...

[Holyspokes]

Interesting... You know, this might sound far fetch to you, but you do not have an ammonia sense of smell per se. Rather, it is pH. Maybe your problem has to do with pulmonary ventilation? IDK Just an idea. Do you have any kind of issue regarding your breathing? You may also have some rare problem with your sense of smell.

The more I read this, the more I am inclined to think that you might have an issue with pH or smell per se. If it continues, I suggest you go to a really good doctor, and have him check you...

The work I did for my MS was respiration physiology. We used ammonia to change the pH of the chemoreceptors in the animal's lung. They actually respond to changes in pH because CO2 normally changes the pH. They are a type of CO2 receptor. But my advisor had discovered that they had these receptors that also respond to the rate of change of pH, and he mentioned to me some odd story about WWII refuggees or something, and he said that when they where in these CO2 chambers or some sort of thing like that, that when they came out of the HIGH CO2 environment they said they smelled ammonia, but that was just an account.. My advisor then told me, he thought eureka! because the reason they smell ammonia is because they associate that smell with ammonia but its really there nose chemoreceptors responding to an increase in pH.

Hope the story made sense.

Bottom line: see a good doctor. a smart one. that would be my suggestion...

Well, the higher your metabolism/BMR is, the more CO2 you output right? From what you just said I was thinking maybe when I start smelling "ammonia" or at least what I perceive as ammonia, it is really just a lot of CO2, because my BMR has raised to a very high level (during exercise or post-exercise/meal) Does that make any sense?

[Holyspokes]

If the specialists have looked at your scans/ results and have felt that it is not of a size to be concerned over/ and that it is not secreting hormones that could be causing issues (eg: prolactin) then this is probably the case. Most pit. ademona's that small are actually 'silent' (just sit around doing 'nothing' until you die) - they are usually just incidental findings...

So you might find some of your issues stem from your ungodly low BF% + your ^^^ exercise level.


hmm alright, well. I am gonna take the next week very easy, attempt to eat more food and hopefully raise my BF%. It's gonna be snowy and cold so I won't even be tempted to go cycling outside. I'm just gonna hit the weights with a decreased load.

Thanks for your input everyone.. All these issues make me pretty depressed.

[Dr. Horse]

1. Check renal function (BUN/Cr)
2. Reduce protein intake
3. Follow your pituitary microadenoma (endocrine function and imaging
4. Get checked for H.Pylori

Could be a number of other things as well.

[reefpicker]

Well, the higher your metabolism/BMR is, the more CO2 you output right? From what you just said I was thinking maybe when I start smelling "ammonia" or at least what I perceive as ammonia, it is really just a lot of CO2, because my BMR has raised to a very high level (during exercise or post-exercise/meal) Does that make any sense?

ammonia smell = absence of CO2

Exercise = Increase ventilation =>

stop exercise but still elevated ventilation = low pCO2

Eating should not cause anything, but as you eat certain things and they are metabolized, your pCO2 also changes, however this is a slower rate of change that should not be detectable. So, my theory goes out the window.

But the idea that the "smell" itself may be some sort of pH disturbance (most likely in your olfactory system) is still possible.

But, since you have an underlying pathology (pituitary adenoma), you have to consider possible ramifications. Personally, I see this as unlikely, since the closest structure that could be affected by it is the optic nerve... but IDK....

This specialty (olfactory reception) is rare. A friend of mind who is partially anosmic used to go to a dr. in DC for it. He could not smell some things, and some things just smelled differently to him (paranosmic?). Anyway, the fact is you would have to talk to a specialist, and specialist here is an understatement :)

The olfactory system is, just to throw in a science nugget here, from an information-encoding perspective, one of the most complex and lesser known of the bodies sensory systems. Add pheromones into the mix, and you have a fringe-like science (LOL) right there....

We do not know what we smell and we barely understand how we learn what roses smell like and why they are different from other flower smells....

[reefpicker]

I wonder if you just think no one else can smell it?

Maybe it is coming from your body, as I do see now you have a very low BF.

You should let someone else confirm this. I know.. It sounds gross.. But its either that or you can just try to smell your own clothes after you go to the gym... (OK, it is a bit gross but...)

Try upping your carb intake to 2 or 3 x and wait a week and see if that helps (?).

Or go with my other suggestion.

[Holyspokes]

I wonder if you just think no one else can smell it?

Maybe it is coming from your body, as I do see now you have a very low BF.

You should let someone else confirm this. I know.. It sounds gross.. But its either that or you can just try to smell your own clothes after you go to the gym... (OK, it is a bit gross but...)

Try upping your carb intake to 2 or 3 x and wait a week and see if that helps (?).

Or go with my other suggestion.

Thanks for all your help and input man, I'm trying to eat more carbs at the moment.

I have tried asking my mom to "smell me" when I was living at home, while I smelled the ammonia. She said she didn't smell anything.

[reefpicker]

I have tried asking my mom to "smell me".

is it me or isn't that the most embarrassing thing to ask to someone? LOL At least your mom won't care.... It would be bad if you had to ask your roommate or a gym bud!

[HerveDuchemin]

Its the breakdown of urea in your sweat to ammonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea#In_humans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_volatilization_from_urea
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/e/3/ae319e4c030e1d05d2c8f7f4fbb91958.png

Makes sense. A lot of times when I go to drop a towel in the sweaty towel basket at the gym, the smell of ammonia rises up out of the basket and I used to wonder why.

[reefpicker]

Makes sense. A lot of times when I go to drop a towel in the sweaty towel basket at the gym, the smell of ammonia rises up out of the basket and I used to wonder why.

That sounds nice but it can't possibly take place everywhere in your skin. no? You need urease, which comes from bacteria. Maybe under your armpits and places that you have hair? IDK But you need the bacteria... Maybe some people have it and some do not?

[Holyspokes]

I don't know man, I went to get on my bike to ride to class today, and I get a huge wiff of it as soon as I start pedaling, then after like 30 seconds it goes away.

[bluedo]

When eating alot of meat it puts more nitrogen in your system, because of the amino acids. If your on a Keto diet you need to regulate your pH levels by checking them using a pH scale all you have to do is drip a little on one of the sticks. If your pH level is under a 4 the acidity is too high. Your H+ conc will be High. Its relatively easy to manage. You should be around a 4 or 5 consistantely.

[Holyspokes]

When eating alot of meat it puts more nitrogen in your system, because of the amino acids. If your on a Keto diet you need to regulate your pH levels by checking them using a pH scale all you have to do is drip a little on one of the sticks. If your pH level is under a 4 the acidity is too high. Your H+ conc will be High. Its relatively easy to manage. You should be around a 4 or 5 consistantely.

I'm not on Keto, I eat upwards of 400g of carbs

[bluedo]

No Keto and 400 carb...I don't know then...Maybe your just full of windex

[AmericanMETAL13]

In the Army at Ranger School it's not uncommon at all for people to smell like Ammonia. It happens when your caloric intake in combination with lack of sleep causes your body to burn muscle as a fuel source. What's your caloric intake?

[TroyMM]

i get ammonia smell easily too. Within 10 minutes of cardio

i dont know whats wrong with me.... docs dont know either

[Holyspokes]

In the Army at Ranger School it's not uncommon at all for people to smell like Ammonia. It happens when your caloric intake in combination with lack of sleep causes your body to burn muscle as a fuel source. What's your caloric intake?

4300-5600 depending on the day. My sleep is disrupted, although I allow 8-10 hours everynight.

[flyinhigh6165]

I just started Keto diet about 6 days ago. I have started to get that very strong ammonia smell after my work outs. I made a radical change in my diet and wondering if it id from that. My water intake is also more than adequate. Now I am all concerned with this diet since my fats are super high and protein has been more around my body weight of 240...carbs below 40g. Don't need my kidneys being the problem.

[reefpicker]

Can anyone provide a link to the science behind this? I just don't buy the whole "ammonia from sweat" thing....

Any studies on this phenomena?

[dillingerescp]

Are you sure people aren't just being polite, and don't want to tell you that you smell like a nasty smelling cleaner?

[whitegato1488]

4300-5600 depending on the day. My sleep is disrupted, although I allow 8-10 hours everynight.

the sleep disruption sounds like a common symptom of adrenal fatigue im just getting over it and i also had the ammonium smell problem when i worked out but it was more like a cat piss smell. its from an imbalance of minerals in the kidneys. i started to take 250mg of potassium a day and it got ride of it.

[Holyspokes]

the sleep disruption sounds like a common symptom of adrenal fatigue im just getting over it and i also had the ammonium smell problem when i worked out but it was more like a cat piss smell. its from an imbalance of minerals in the kidneys. i started to take 250mg of potassium a day and it got ride of it.

Hmm, thanks. Well I get a ****load of potassium in my diet, I don't really want to supplement any.

I just read up a little bit on adrenal fatigue. Can you get it from too much exercise? What are some ways you can get over it? I'm thinking I might actually have it. Who knows though.

[reefpicker]

250mg of potassium a day and it got ride of it.

Since this is the nutrition forum, I just wanted to interject that a banana has more potassium than that ;) So if you are paying for pills, there are cheaper ways :O

[Emma-Leigh]

'Adrenal fatigue' in the 'general' way people think/ refer to it is a load of poppy-weeny.... :o

-- >> http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C17669.html
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adrenal-fatigue/AN01583
^
many people suggest it is ‘real’ -- but it is actually usually just chronic stress/ anxiety/ depression/ or even chronic fatigue - >>
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chronic-fatigue-syndrome/DS00395
So you may well be 'overtrained' - but that would be... well... overtraining.... Not adrenal fatigue.

TRUE 'adrenal fatigue' => addisons disease... and that is not something that you can create from too much exercise.

[whitegato1488]

Since this is the nutrition forum, I just wanted to interject that a banana has more potassium than that ;) So if you are paying for pills, there are cheaper ways :O

Hmm, thanks. Well I get a ****load of potassium in my diet, I don't really want to supplement any.

I just read up a little bit on adrenal fatigue. Can you get it from too much exercise? What are some ways you can get over it? I'm thinking I might actually have it. Who knows though.
i thought i did to since i would eat two bananas a day and alot of potatoes but i still tried the OTC @ 250mg and the smell went away.
yes you can get adrenal fatigue from over training but from prolonged over training and usually combined with other stresses like food allergies or lack of sleep or any other stress you can think of.



'Adrenal fatigue' in the 'general' way people think/ refer to it is a load of poppy-weeny.... :o

-- >> http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C17669.html
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adrenal-fatigue/AN01583
^
many people suggest it is ?real? -- but it is actually usually just chronic stress/ anxiety/ depression/ or even chronic fatigue - >>
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chronic-fatigue-syndrome/DS00395
So you may well be 'overtrained' - but that would be... well... overtraining.... Not adrenal fatigue.

TRUE 'adrenal fatigue' => addisons disease... and that is not something that you can create from too much exercise.

like i mentioned before prolonged overtraining can result in adrenal fatigue and most docs dont recognize it because there is not an establish way of testing for it. it has veering degree's and chronic fatigue can be on the upper end of the degree. to put it simply prolonged stress can make you produce and use up alot of different hormone and eventually you start to run out of the because the body isnt able to keep up producing and this causes an imbalance and once you have the imbalance it goes down hill from there.
there is alot of diseases that research is starting to point to being stress induced like fibromyalgia.

[whitegato1488]

the first article i read in my road to figuring it out was
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ammonia.htm
then i started to look into kidney problems and urea and came up with the potassium.

[Holyspokes]

Thanks for the input whitegato

[reefpicker]

to put it simply prolonged stress can make you produce and use up alot of different hormone and eventually you start to run out of the because the body isnt able to keep up producing and this causes an imbalance and once you have the imbalance it goes down hill from there.

Not true.

The body can produce steroid hormones pretty fast. In fact, there present in the brain and used as "neuromodulators" because they can activate signaling pathways similar to neuroendocrine regulators. They are called neurosteroids.

Actually, there is something else that kicks in before any kind of hormonal depletion can take place. It is called receptor desensitization. When cortisol stays high for too long, the receptor stops acting on the signal. Either cortisol goes down or the only way to get a stress response is to further elevate cortisol.

We see this all the time in experiments that test chronic vs. acute stress. Someone in my lab did an experiment with fish, and it was amazing to see this cortisol signal piggybacked on top of the chronic signal.

In general, the medical establishment does not accept the idea of adrenal fatigue because it is just plain ludicrous. Your body produces hundreds of hormones and it never seems to simply run out of gas when producing them.

Depletion can occur, but only on the smallest of scales. This happens with neurotransmitters. In fact, neurons can often become depleted of neurotransmitters, or even hormones, but in a few hours they are able to re-synthesize what they need.

Another factor to keep in mind is that hormones are not "spent". They are signals that travel thru the body, are destroyed (usually by the liver), and reconstituted, because the "parts" they are made from are made available again.

Sometimes a hormone will bind a receptor, signal the cell, get unbound, and continue activating another receptor. This way, the hormone is very efficient. Other times, a hormone binds a receptor, and only while bound is the signal active. At some point it becomes unbound, and it goes back to the blood stream.

[adwilk]

The ammonia smell is famous at US Army Ranger School. Young men at their physical peak begin smelling strongly of ammonia after weeks of insufficient caloric intake, lack of sleep, and non-stop exhausting exercise. Most of them complain that its deep in their chest and they taste it more than smelling it until they catch a deep breath.. Production of lactic acid, and depending on individual diet and melanine levels, kidney function, Liver and health behaviours (smoker, Drinker etc) but regardless, the Amonia smell is this by product of exercised muscles and sugars burnt and used within exercised muscles etc..ie Oxygen in, combined with blood sugar (or lack of it) mixed with personal electrolyte levels,exercised muscle blood, output carbon D = Odor.

I've read it can be a sign of muscle breakdown for energy, your low BF would explain that...

It can also be a bacterial infection...

[Holyspokes]

The ammonia smell is famous at US Army Ranger School. Young men at their physical peak begin smelling strongly of ammonia after weeks of insufficient caloric intake, lack of sleep, and non-stop exhausting exercise. Most of them complain that its deep in their chest and they taste it more than smelling it until they catch a deep breath.. Production of lactic acid, and depending on individual diet and melanine levels, kidney function, Liver and health behaviours (smoker, Drinker etc) but regardless, the Amonia smell is this by product of exercised muscles and sugars burnt and used within exercised muscles etc..ie Oxygen in, combined with blood sugar (or lack of it) mixed with personal electrolyte levels,exercised muscle blood, output carbon D = Odor.

I've read it can be a sign of muscle breakdown for energy, your low BF would explain that...

It can also be a bacterial infection...

Thanks for the info man.

I've heard this a few times, although this went a bit more depth. I think that was my issue. I was cycling a LOT, and I guess I just wasn't eating enough. I wasn't lifting at the time and my weight went from 155 to 143, and then leveled out at 143.

I still get it AT TIMES, but i've been eating a crap load, been paying better attention to recovery and upped my carbohydrate %.

[reefpicker]

Still I don't get the scientific explanation of this... Is it really ammonia?

is it just something that smell like ammonia?

or is it unknown?

[Marcus8880]

I had same prob, sinus infection ftw...

[KCE]

I'm pretty sure a couple of things have come up abnormal with my kidneys as well.


You said your BUN level was high, from webmd:



* A high BUN value can mean kidney injury or disease is present. Kidney damage can be caused by diabetes or high blood pressure that directly affect the kidneys. High BUN levels can also be caused by blockage of the urinary tract (by a kidney stone or tumor) or low blood flow to the kidneys caused by dehydration or heart failure.

* Many medicines may cause a high BUN. Be sure to tell your doctor about all the nonprescription and prescription medicines you take.

* A high BUN value may be caused by a high-protein diet, Addison's disease, tissue damage (such as from severe burns), or from bleeding in the gastrointestinal tract.

* High BUN-to-creatinine ratios occur with sudden (acute) kidney failure, which may be caused by shock or severe dehydration. A blockage in the urinary tract (such as a kidney stone) can cause a high BUN-to-creatinine ratio. A very high BUN-to-creatinine ratio may be caused by bleeding in the digestive tract or respiratory tract.


http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/blood-urea-nitrogen?page=2

When dealing with health issues, if you don't agree with the doctor you should always get a second, third, etc. opinion. Personally I would ask the doctors to run more tests even if they thought it was fine. Also I suggest getting you're liver checked as some symptoms overlap.

I'm not a doctor but my guess is that your body cannot get rid of the ammonia fast enough that it's building up in your bloodstream and escaping other ways. Or the source of the ammonia is coming from somewhere in your torso cavity or just upper body region, like marcus said the sinus. You should check up on the sinus thing.

If it's not kidney failure it could just be nothing...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=ammonia+smell+nose&btnG=Search

All I can really say is see the doctor and go google and do some more research on it.

[NDMarts]

My experience on Keto diets ended up with same result. But I've been on 600+ carbs a day and had no smell related with anything.

Do you take a high quality multi? Or garbage?

[Holyspokes]

You said your BUN level was high, from webmd:



http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/blood-urea-nitrogen?page=2

When dealing with health issues, if you don't agree with the doctor you should always get a second, third, etc. opinion. Personally I would ask the doctors to run more tests even if they thought it was fine. Also I suggest getting you're liver checked as some symptoms overlap.

I'm not a doctor but my guess is that your body cannot get rid of the ammonia fast enough that it's building up in your bloodstream and escaping other ways. Or the source of the ammonia is coming from somewhere in your torso cavity or just upper body region, like marcus said the sinus. You should check up on the sinus thing.

If it's not kidney failure it could just be nothing...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=ammonia+smell+nose&btnG=Search

All I can really say is see the doctor and go google and do some more research on it.

Thanks for all of that, I can't really see a doctor right now and I'm away from home right now, so it may have to wait until summer.


My experience on Keto diets ended up with same result. But I've been on 600+ carbs a day and had no smell related with anything.

Do you take a high quality multi? Or garbage?

I don't take a multi, I get plenty of vitamins from food

[sizeNstrength]

I only skimmed most of the responses, but was shocked to not see what is the most probable cause of smelling like ammonia whilst sweating...

..and that is an excess of protein intake.

Most bodybuilders tend to strive for 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight - while this is ok for some, it is not the proper diet for all.

When the body intakes an excess amount of protein and can not use it, it breaks it down into amino acids and then synthesizes it into ammonia and excretes it through sweat and urine.

If you are working out and sweating hard on a high protein diet and start to smell of ammonia, chances are that you need to drop your protein intake a little bit as your are flooding your body with too much.

I personally can only intake about 200grams of protein before I start to get that ammonia smell when I sweat - which is far from the "bro recommended dosage".

Now, you can also solve the problem by adding more carbs to your diet - but if you are holding steady at 3500 calories - adding enough carbs would probably pop you up to 4k as well as some follow low carb or carb cycling diets that can not make that addition. So - dropping protein intake is OK - you can still build muscle on a .5g/lb diet.

I did a LOT of research on the matter when I started to first smell ammonia after working out.

[Holyspokes]

I only skimmed most of the responses, but was shocked to not see what is the most probable cause of smelling like ammonia whilst sweating...

..and that is an excess of protein intake.

Most bodybuilders tend to strive for 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight - while this is ok for some, it is not the proper diet for all.

When the body intakes an excess amount of protein and can not use it, it breaks it down into amino acids and then synthesizes it into ammonia and excretes it through sweat and urine.

If you are working out and sweating hard on a high protein diet and start to smell of ammonia, chances are that you need to drop your protein intake a little bit as your are flooding your body with too much.

I personally can only intake about 200grams of protein before I start to get that ammonia smell when I sweat - which is far from the "bro recommended dosage".

Now, you can also solve the problem by adding more carbs to your diet - but if you are holding steady at 3500 calories - adding enough carbs would probably pop you up to 4k as well as some follow low carb or carb cycling diets that can not make that addition. So - dropping protein intake is OK - you can still build muscle on a .5g/lb diet.

I did a LOT of research on the matter when I started to first smell ammonia after working out.

Thanks, I have thought of that. I have indeed increased carbohydrate intake and lowered protein a bit. Some days when I need to eat 5,800 or so calories I'm not sure where my protein should be. I generally get 150-190g of protein per day.

[sizeNstrength]

Thanks, I have thought of that. I have indeed increased carbohydrate intake and lowered protein a bit. Some days when I need to eat 5,800 or so calories I'm not sure where my protein should be. I generally get 150-190g of protein per day.

Well, since the ammonia smell is most likely linked to protein intake - if you need 5.8k calories in a day but your body is only processing 120g of protein, I would make up the difference with healthy fats (which the body processes and digests easily) and carbs. The excess protein isn't doing anything good for ya ;)

[Sweaty1]

Just wanted to add that although I don't have any equations to back me up, it is DEFINTELY down to protein intake. I was vegetarian for nearly 20 years and just went back to meat-eater about 7 years ago. I still can't get used to my own new body odor. As a veggie I was completely odorless. Disgusting (...can you pass me the bacon?).

[bloodsimple1234]

I noticed it a bit when I first started training many years ago.Not overtraining and glutamine 2-3 times throughout the day helped greatly! that is as long as no other health issues are at play,and it does not sound like it from everything you are telling us.

[AlterEgoNYC]

I get this ammonia smell too, after heavy cardio in the mornings before eating anything. I don't have any other complications though... so I assume it's just the phenomenon of burning protein from muscles for energy b/c there are no carbs or stored fats to burn?

[atticus_a]

I used to get these when I over trained.

I would recommend that you check your clothing themselves.

[Holyspokes]

I really just get the smell in my nose, it's not like anyone else can ever smell it.

I rarely smell it as much anymore, but still do sometimes. Whenever I do get it, it makes me think I have not been eating enough (carbohydrates)..

And trust me.. I eat a lot

[DragOn133]

I used to get these when I over trained.

I would recommend that you check your clothing themselves.

BUMP!

Weird but I think it can be in the clothes too.. Wore a new hoodie to the gym to lift, everything the same for the day supplement/food wise, and no smell.. When I wear an old beater and new hoodie no ammonia smell, with an older hoodie once it starts getting damp the smell gets so strong!

I do take in mass amounts of BCAA's though throughout the day/pre/during/post, but also a ton of water, I don't suppose I can be burning off the aminos as energy hence the nitrogen/ammonia smell?

[4073]

Interesting stuff. I got this smell a couple of times last week and wondered what was going on.

If it happens again, I'll try a few of the things mentioned in this thread. I know it's an old thread and it's unlikely that many of you who posted in it will see this, but thanks anyway, you've given me some ideas!

I'd rep, but it's worthless. ;)