The Warrior Diet support group thread stickied in "Advanced" Nutrition?

[alan aragon]

There are a couple of reasons I think that the WD sticky is out of place. It's implied that a forum entitled "advanced nutrition" is a place for scientific discussion. I have no problems with theoretical discussion of topics that don't have comprehensive evidence bases, but this thread is almost like WD dieters' support thread. There is no science being discussed, only encouragement and coaching for those who have bought in. For this thread to be stuck right next to the scientific information resources sticky is very odd. As you may be aware, many of the principles espoused in the WD are not research or science-based; it's one author's interpretation of how we should eat. The WD website promotes a mishmash of questionable to quacky information. Plus, for a diet that's all about the ancient ancestral eating pattern, it's ironically product/supplement-heavy. Many of these products are dubious. See for yourself:

http://www.warriordiet.com/

Finally, the more well-versed forum members who drop by the Advanced Nutrition section might question the motives of the place right off the bat as soon as they see a pop diet book support thread stickied at the top. In more plain English, it kinda makes the forum look bad. It might present an unscientific image that new visitors to the site might not take seriously.

Just some thoughts, I'm obviously in favor of un-sticking it. At the same time, I don't wanna break any hearts or crush any egos over this. An alternative would be to make the WD thread part of a sticky on unconventional dietary approaches, and within this sticky, Martin Berkhan's thread can be included. At least Martin's methods are more sound than the WD, and Martin busts his ass on keeping up with the research of the matter. Another alternative would be to make the WD thread a part of a sticky linking the best of the advanced nutrition section.

Those are my thoughts, let's hear yours. And keep in mind, I'd like to hear more than just the disgruntled feedback of the guys posting in the WD thread :)

[MattyH7688]

THANK YOU ALAN!!!

I was thinking this exact thing!

[¡STFU!ˇNˆLIFT!]

Indeed .. un-stick it

pass the Crock Pot please

[Tiffany_P]

An alternative would be to make the WD thread part of a sticky on unconventional dietary approaches, and within this sticky, Martin Berkhan's thread can be included.


^^^
This would be my preference.

[Catchol]

I'm not some impressionable child or a bodybuilding meat-head. First and foremost, professionally I'm a pharmaceutical research scientist and the teacher of young scientific minds. Secondly, I'm a bodybuilder. So, don't ever think that my passion for bodybuilding will ever cloud my ability to reason or diminish my knowledge of physiology and biochemisty.

Go back and read the big WD thread -- I posted loads of published research in support of the scientific validity of the WD. The physiologic benefits of intermittent fasting and the biological adaptations thereto have been scientifically researched and documented beyond any dispute.

You don't like the WD? Don't follow it! Don't call it "quakery" though, because I'm no fool, and the continued expression of your summation that the WD is "quackery" is going to result in a pissing contest with me that you simply cannot win. This, I promise.

[JustLost]

I have no problems with theoretical discussion of topics that don't have comprehensive evidence bases, but this thread is almost like WD dieters' support thread. There is no science being discussed, only encouragement and coaching for those who have bought in.


And there's already an Officially Official forum for that, at defensenutrition.com .

Gotta go on a sidetrip here: it's always seemed odd to see people look for support here for a diet that has its own support site, like the Velocity Diet or UD2.0. Once you've evaluated and chosen a diet, why not ask its creator directly?




An alternative would be to make the WD thread part of a sticky on unconventional dietary approaches, and within this sticky, Martin Berkhan's thread can be included.


That seems like a good compromise.


PS: Alan, don't feel bad -- Penthouse rejects my articles too.

;)

[¡STFU!ˇNˆLIFT!]

no one is pissing but you cathcol and that is into the wind .

It is not advanced in any sense of the word .

Do you work for penthouse mag as well

[alan aragon]

I'm not some impressionable child or a bodybuilding meat-head. First and foremost, professionally I'm a pharmaceutical research scientist and the teacher of young scientific minds. Secondly, I'm a bodybuilder. So, don't ever think that my passion for bodybuilding will ever cloud my ability to reason or diminish my knowledge of physiology and biochemisty.

Go back and read the big WD thread -- I posted loads of published research in support of the scientific validity of the WD. The physiologic benefits of intermittent fasting and the biological adaptations thereto have been scientifically researched and documented beyond any dispute.

You don't like the WD? Don't follow it! Don't call it "quakery" though, because I'm no fool, and the continued expression of your summation that the WD is "quackery" is going to result in a pissing contest with me that you simply cannot win. This, I promise.^^^Them there's be some fightin' words. I'm stepping out for a bit, but I'll be back later to examine your argument to see if it's worth an ounce of ****. For now, re-examine my post more carefully and be careful of building strawmen.

[Catchol]

It is not advanced in any sense of the word.

With all due respect, you cannot properly string even the most elementary sentences together, so your opinion of anything is automatically suspect to everyone other than the 2% of the population who happen to have even less linguistic aptitude than you do. If English is your native language, then you should at least *TRY* to write in proper sentences, with proper spelling, and at least some semblance of grammar.


Do you work for penthouse mag as well

Why? Do I remind you of your mother?

[Catchol]

^^^Them there's be some fightin' words. I'm stepping out for a bit, but I'll be back later to examine your argument to see if it's worth an ounce of ****. For now, re-examine my post more carefully and be careful of building strawmen.

I was a bit overzealous and mildly disrespectful in my reply. I apologize.

However, feel free to examine anything and everything I've posted. I have no problems with a scientific discussion of anything and I have no problem with people who disagree with me -- as long as they can support their claims with evidence, or at least logic.

[Code_B]

Signed.

[Blindead]

Agreed.

[Catchol]

Who cares what you all think?

[Holyspokes]

Who cares what you all think?

That's the point of this thread?

[Ryan Zielonka]

I agree with Alan's post completely. Martin (IF br0) and I never interact on amiable terms.

In fact, I'm pretty sure he views me as an eternal neophyte with an acute psychological predisposition toward endless 'wheel spinning.' That said, even though I disagree with many of his assessments, he knows what he's doing and makes a major effort to support his claims with research-based evidence.

This is in direct contrast to the Warrior Diet. I find this thread saddening, as it only reinforces many individuals' prejudice against BB.com and the quality (or lack thereof) of information found herein, Alan, Martin, and a few others non-withstanding.

[¡STFU!ˇNˆLIFT!]

With all due respect, you cannot properly string even the most elementary sentences together, so your opinion of anything is automatically suspect to everyone other than the 2% of the population who happen to have even less linguistic aptitude than you do. If English is your native language, then you should at least *TRY* to write in proper sentences, with proper spelling, and at least some semblance of grammar.



Why? Do I remind you of your mother?

smfh @ you wow ..

feeling a bit bitchy are we ?

[KJR246]

defensenutrition.com


That website really sucks. Just sayin.

But I agree that it should be de-sticky'd.

I completely support WD and moreso IF, but I don't think WD deserves to be a sticky in the Advanced Nutrition section. I think the thread should remain here in the Advanced Nutrition section as a normal thread. I don't, however, think there is much "advanced" about WD and it isn't fair to put it as a sticky because with that logic you would also have to make a sticky for the peanut butter diet, atkins, and the velocity diet. WD is one of MANY diets out there. The sticky's, especially in this section, should be reserved for scientific studies, etc.

I'm still a supporter but I don't think it's sticky worthy.

Signed.

[JustLost]

That website really sucks. Just sayin.



No argument there. But it is Ori's site... which is part of why it sucks, actually. Not much objective discussion at all; the moderation is pretty severe, and from what I can see, a handful of zealots do most of the posting.

[KJR246]

No argument there. But it is Ori's site... which is part of why it sucks, actually. Not much objective discussion at all; the moderation is pretty severe, and from what I can see, a handful of zealots do most of the posting.

Yeah. I asked a question there that was somewhat objective to WD and I got well over 100 views and one answer.

[alan aragon]

Catchol,

I went through the stickied WD thread, and it's exactly as I described it in my original post of this thread. No scientic discussion, just moral support and coaching. And, I stand by my assertion in the original post that Ori's WD site promotes a bunch of questionable/quacky products and principles. Whatever adaptation you might have of IF might be scientifically sound - I don't know, since I haven't had the time to discuss it with you. Note, however, that I've reviewed the research on IF, and I'm well aware of its strengths and limitations. It's an interesting approach, and there are some discussion-worthy aspects of the various incarnations of IF. But, to have a sticky that functions as a promotional tool for the WD is almost like a willful endorsement of pseudoscience.

PS - since you mentioned being a teacher and a research scientist, where do you teach, and could you link me to the research you've done? Thanks.

[MattyH7688]

I was gonna say something in the warrior diet thread but knowing emma leighs history with me i would of been negged or banned LOL


Alan Aragon for Mod!!!!


oh wait

[Emma-Leigh]

A general warning to people participating in this thread:

Please keep interactions polite and respectful.
This issue can be discussed without need to become an arguement or without the throwing of insults. Further disrespectful/ flaming/ insulting posts will result in me getting cranky.

Thank you for understanding.


Emma-Leigh

[MattyH7688]

A general warning to people participating in this thread:

Please keep interactions polite and respectful.
This issue can be discussed without need to become an arguement or without the throwing of insults. Further disrespectful/ flaming/ insulting posts will result in me getting cranky.

Thank you for understanding.


Emma-Leigh
Do you have a vested interest in the warrior diet? (Serious)

I don't see any other reason why it should be stickied.. it looks like an advertisement for a book.

[Emma-Leigh]

Do you have a vested interest in the warrior diet? (Serious)

I don't see any other reason why it should be stickied.. it looks like an advertisement for a book.
You raise your hackles inappropriately Matty. I have nothing against you. I do not know you. Nor you, me.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the appropriateness of the WD Sticky, and I ask you please keep it to this topic.

Thank you for understanding.

Emma-Leigh

[MattyH7688]

You raise your hackles inappropriately Matty. I have nothing against you. I do not know you. Nor you, me.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the appropriateness of the WD Sticky, and I ask you please keep it to this topic.

Thank you for understanding.

Emma-Leigh

How is this not on topic? I raise a very good point because this has happened multiple times in the past, where mods sticky something they have a monetary interest in. What is your reasoning behind sticking it? I am genuinely curious.

[Kion]

Alan, would you maybe explain a little more about your position on the Warrior Diet? I am personally on it though only for a short time and so far it seems to be alright. I've read some of your previous post when the topic of the WD has come up and you seem to hold it as close to quackery. I have no plans on buying any of the supplements and will run it for a while as the people who have used it seem to do alright on it.

I have done a little research into it with different sources, both positive and negative and have come up split but as I said decided to go with it. My plans are different then probably some here as I'm not attempting to get large (yet) and really trying to get healthier. I'm not eating any less then when I was eating throughout the day, it's just condensed into a shorter eating period. My workouts have been fine and I managed to loose some weight on a two week lay off recently and no strength loss which is unusual for me. This has been my own personal experience with it so I'll know in a month or two whether it's worth sticking with.

[CoQ10]

I don't think Alan's attacking the Warrior Diet itself, but rather the lack of scientific discussion in the thread.

I agree that it is miscategorized and should be placed in the general nutrition forum.

-C10

[Catchol]

Catchol,

I went through the stickied WD thread, and it's exactly as I described it in my original post of this thread. No scientic discussion, just moral support and coaching.

You went through the 1000+ posts and somehow managed not to see that -- in numerous replies -- I posted either excerpts from published studies or a physiologic explanation for whatever point I was trying to make?

Are you serious? I think you need glasses...


And, I stand by my assertion in the original post that Ori's WD site promotes a bunch of questionable/quacky products and principles. Whatever adaptation you might have of IF might be scientifically sound - I don't know, since I haven't had the time to discuss it with you. Note, however, that I've reviewed the research on IF, and I'm well aware of its strengths and limitations. It's an interesting approach, and there are some discussion-worthy aspects of the various incarnations of IF. But, to have a sticky that functions as a promotional tool for the WD is almost like a willful endorsement of pseudoscience.

You seem to have a problem with using the term "Warrior Diet" because it was coined by someone who you apparently either don't like or don't respect, or both. Whatever the case, I don't care. I'm not a supporter of Ori and -- if you had actually bothered to *READ* the 1000+ post thread -- you'd have seen that on numerous occasions I disagreed with Ori and the other "IF gurus". It's not a "promotional tool", it's a discussion of a diet that is -- in my opinion as both a scientist and a bodybuilder -- borderline revolutionary.


PS - since you mentioned being a teacher and a research scientist, where do you teach, and could you link me to the research you've done? Thanks.

I prefer to remain anonymous. I don't post my picture, any information about where I live, or anything else which could be used to establish my identity. This ensures that whatever I say here will never be able to affect me professionally or personally. For instance, I do not believe that HIV is the cause of AIDS... Do you know what would happen to me -- professionally speaking -- if I were to announce this to my colleagues, even though I have ample evidence in support of my position (including the research of several Nobel prize laureates who agree that HIV is harmless)?

Moreover, I have no need to prove my credentials to you or anyone else. My written word and the breadth of knowledge that I have displayed on this web site -- in this discussion and in others, such as Supplement Science -- are *MORE* than sufficient to establish my credibility in the fields of pharmacology, human physiology, and biochemistry. Get this clear right now: My presence here is nothing short of philanthropic towards the users of this website. I absolutely guarantee you that My time is exponentially more valuable than yours.

You can literally take your annoying, self-righteous, and -- in my opinion -- vastly inflated sense-of-self attitude right the hell out of here. You are literally nothing and no one to me, and I don't care how much you think you know. You're not nearly as knowledgeable or as smart as you think you are.

[alan aragon]

You went through the 1000+ posts and somehow managed not to see that -- in numerous replies -- I posted either excerpts from published studies or a physiologic explanation for whatever point I was trying to make?

Are you serious? I think you need glasses...



You seem to have a problem with using the term "Warrior Diet" because it was coined by someone who you apparently either don't like or don't respect, or both. Whatever the case, I don't care. I'm not a supporter of Ori and -- if you had actually bothered to *READ* the 1000+ post thread -- you'd have seen that on numerous occasions I disagreed with Ori and the other "IF gurus". It's not a "promotional tool", it's a discussion of a diet that is -- in my opinion as both a scientist and a bodybuilder -- borderline revolutionary.



I prefer to remain anonymous. I don't post my picture, any information about where I live, or anything else which could be used to establish my identity. This ensures that whatever I say here will never be able to affect me professionally or personally. For instance, I do not believe that HIV is the cause of AIDS... Do you know what would happen to me -- professionally speaking -- if I were to announce this to my colleagues, even though I have ample evidence in support of my position (including the research of several Nobel prize laureates who agree that HIV is harmless)?

Moreover, I have no need to prove my credentials to you or anyone else. My written word and the breadth of knowledge that I have displayed on this web site -- in this discussion and in others, such as Supplement Science -- are *MORE* than sufficient to establish my credibility in the fields of pharmacology, human physiology, and biochemistry. Get this clear right now: My presence here is nothing short of philanthropic towards the users of this website. I absolutely guarantee you that My time is exponentially more valuable than yours.

You can literally take your annoying, self-righteous, and -- in my opinion -- vastly inflated sense-of-self attitude right the hell out of here. You are literally nothing and no one to me, and I don't care how much you think you know. You're not nearly as knowledgeable or as smart as you think you are.I was referring to the WD thread stickied in this forum. Twice now I have mentioned the "stickied WD thread", so you have to pay more attention instead of glazing over my posts half-alert. I have repeatedly been referring to the STICKIED WD THREAD, which is the topic of this discussion. If you can link me to any other WD sticky on this website, be my guest. I already advised you to be careful about building strawmen, but you failed to heed. C'mon, man... Help me help you. With that out of the way, you're welcome to re-approach this discussion.

PS - why would you even mention your credentials/accomplishments as a basis of authority if you're not prepared to substantiate them? It only makes you sound at best like a charlatan, and at worst, like a fraud.

[nathanbailey]

while i agree with the things catachol says i agree that the WD sticky shouldnt even be in this section.. theres should be another nutrition section for different types of diets in which the main diet alternatives should be stickied such as WD, IF and others... just like i dont think keto should have its own section/subsection. i dont care how many ppl follow the diet!

[Phosphate bond]

There are a couple of reasons I think that the WD sticky is out of place. It's implied that a forum entitled "advanced nutrition" is a place for scientific discussion. I have no problems with theoretical discussion of topics that don't have comprehensive evidence bases, but this thread is almost like WD dieters' support thread. There is no science being discussed, only encouragement and coaching for those who have bought in. For this thread to be stuck right next to the scientific information resources sticky is very odd. As you may be aware, many of the principles espoused in the WD are not research or science-based; it's one author's interpretation of how we should eat. The WD website promotes a mishmash of questionable to quacky information. Plus, for a diet that's all about the ancient ancestral eating pattern, it's ironically product/supplement-heavy. Many of these products are dubious. See for yourself:

http://www.warriordiet.com/

Finally, the more well-versed forum members who drop by the Advanced Nutrition section might question the motives of the place right off the bat as soon as they see a pop diet book support thread stickied at the top. In more plain English, it kinda makes the forum look bad. It might present an unscientific image that new visitors to the site might not take seriously.

Just some thoughts, I'm obviously in favor of un-sticking it. At the same time, I don't wanna break any hearts or crush any egos over this. However, I think this subforum has the potential to improve BB.com's reputation of being the megasite overrun by newbz, and stickying a pop diet book written by a guy whose credentials are being a former writer for Penthouse Magazine ain't gonna help.

An alternative would be to make the WD thread part of a sticky on unconventional dietary approaches, and within this sticky, Martin Berkhan's thread can be included. At least Martin's methods are more sound than the WD, and Martin busts his ass on keeping up with the research of the matter. Another alternative would be to make the WD thread a part of a sticky linking the best of the advanced nutrition section.

Those are my thoughts, let's hear yours. And keep in mind, I'd like to hear more than just the disgruntled feedback of the guys posting in the WD thread :)

I think it makes a lot of sense to have a separate forum for unconventional diet strategies.

From what little I know (that is specific to this field) it seems just isolating cumulative food effects is already tough enough.

[TonyHoliday]

Whether or not you like the warrior diet or not has no relevance to this topic. Why wouldn't anyone want a subsection for WD or sticky for that matter. To me it simply makes the forum more efficient?

Catchol

Could you please PM me some information on your HIV being harmless theory. I'm generally interested (serious).

[MattyH7688]

Whether or not you like the warrior diet or not has no relevance to this topic. Why wouldn't anyone want a subsection for WD or sticky for that matter. To me it simply makes the forum more efficient?

Catchol

Could you please PM me some information on your HIV being harmless theory. I'm generally interested (serious).

LOL.. lets post every fad diet and give its own subsection and sticky too!! :rolleyes:

[alan aragon]

LOL.. lets post every fad diet and give its own subsection and sticky too!! :rolleyes:Exactly.