My Epistane/Trenadrol Cycle OTC PCT

[BodyMan123]

Dosing
RPN Havoc
30/30/30/30

Kilosports Trenadrol
60/60/60/60

PCT
I Force Reversitol
3/2/2/1

Weight
Before Cycle-218
After Cycle-N/A
After PCT-N/A

Goals
Gain muscle mass
Gain strength
Lose BF % (not as important but would be nice)

Workout Routine
Sunday-Upper Body
Monday-Lower Body
Tuesday-Cardio
Thursday-Upper Body
Friday-Lower Body
Saturday-Cardio

Bench Press Stats
Before Cycle-215x4
After Cycle-N/A
After PCT-N/A

I'm only going to post stats of my bench. Thats the main one I like to keep track of and I don't want to record my stats for every exercise I do.

Other Supplements Being Used
During Cycle
ON 100% Whey
ON 100% Casein
BSN Lean Dessert
Multi-Vitamin
Super B Vitamin Complex
Potassium
Fish Oil, Flax Oil, Borage Oil
Glucosamine Hydrochloride 1500mg
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) 1500mg
PCT
ALL OF THE ABOVE +
BSN Cell-Mass
BSN No-Xplode
Gaspari Nutrition SuperPump250

Diet
My diet is real clean. I'll be roughly eating around 3,000-4,000 calories a day. High Protein. Moderate Carbs. Good Fats. I'll also be drinking around 1-2 gallons of water a day.

Pictures
Before Cycle-N/A
After Cycle-N/A
After PCT-N/A

I've decided to post pics when I'm done with cycle.

I'll be editing this post. After Cycle and After PCT. That way someone doesn't have to go through the whole thread to see results of my cycle.

[BodyMan123]

Day 1/30 Cycle

Had a decent workout. Not bad nor great. Did upper body today. Just an average workout as expected.

[BodyMan123]

Day 2/30 Cycle

Weight=218 (was 219...I got excited.....then i took a dump and went down to 218 :(...soo no weight change)

Just woke up. For some reason I slept super long and then when I woke up I felt super energetic. Still feel energetic right now, about to do my cardio for the day. IDK if that's a side effect of havoc or trenadrol??

Had a good run around the neighborhood. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Oh yeah and btw it's my birthday today!! :)

[austinka83]

Keep us updated. I'm doing 30/60ED Epistane/Trenadrol starting Monday for 6 weeks, so I can't wait to see how it's working for you!

PS, I did a tren stack before and would sleep 10-12 hours and wake up groggy! But that was Tokkyo Tren which I think is different than Trenadrol.

[Obnoxious123]

didn't even see you started a log man. i'm in on this

[BodyMan123]

Keep us updated. I'm doing 30/60ED Epistane/Trenadrol starting Monday for 6 weeks, so I can't wait to see how it's working for you!

PS, I did a tren stack before and would sleep 10-12 hours and wake up groggy! But that was Tokkyo Tren which I think is different than Trenadrol.

Thats awesome dude...I'm pretty psyched about this stack....

haha i hope its different cause i dont want to wake up groggy!! my workouts are normally an hour to 2 hours after i wake up...so i have to be prepared


didn't even see you started a log man. i'm in on this

welcome aboard!!

---I didn't know you couldnt edit it post more than once :( kinda ruined how i was going to run this thread...oh well though

[Obnoxious123]

---I didn't know you couldnt edit it post more than once :( kinda ruined how i was going to run this thread...oh well though

yea you can. you just cant edit it after a certain amount of time.

[hardipsrai]

I have just finished my first week on Trenadrol (60mg) and havoc (30mg). Not expecting much until the 3rd week. However, BP has gone up, hence I would suggest that you use some additional Hawthorn berry. I am also running some Vitex and B6 to keep prolactin under control. The cycle is pretty dry so, fish oil is at least 25g a day and Im also using cissus. I wnt be using OTC PCT, dnt feel confident enough for that.

[boo99]

I have just finished my first week on Trenadrol (60mg) and havoc (30mg). Not expecting much until the 3rd week. However, BP has gone up, hence I would suggest that you use some additional Hawthorn berry. I am also running some Vitex and B6 to keep prolactin under control. The cycle is pretty dry so, fish oil is at least 25g a day and Im also using cissus. I wnt be using OTC PCT, dnt feel confident enough for that.



sounds good bro

following along cause I want to cycle this in summer and good to hear
u wont be doing that OTC PTC.....you def. need a SERM here man -- guys have been shut down from Havoc alone

g luck man


boo

[BodyMan123]

I have just finished my first week on Trenadrol (60mg) and havoc (30mg). Not expecting much until the 3rd week. However, BP has gone up, hence I would suggest that you use some additional Hawthorn berry. I am also running some Vitex and B6 to keep prolactin under control. The cycle is pretty dry so, fish oil is at least 25g a day and Im also using cissus. I wnt be using OTC PCT, dnt feel confident enough for that.
For supports I have
Super Vitamin B CompleX
Multi-Vitamin
Vitamin C
Milk Thistle
Saw Palmetto
Fish Oil
Joint Support

For the most part I think my diet covers about everything...I'm not taking Milk Thistle or Saw Palmetto...Ill start using that in PCT....


sounds good bro

following along cause I want to cycle this in summer and good to hear
u wont be doing that OTC PTC.....you def. need a SERM here man -- guys have been shut down from Havoc alone

g luck man


boo

Havoc/Tren is a mild-to moderate cycle IMO....People use OTC PCT's and are fine...People have used Reversitol off of Phera cycles and they worked...

If you don't believe me...Just wait till end of my cycle :)

[hardipsrai]

Im not doubting that OTC PCT will work, but I feel more confident using a serm. Dnt forget to get some B6/Vitex

[BodyMan123]

Im not doubting that OTC PCT will work, but I feel more confident using a serm. Dnt forget to get some B6/Vitex

For this cycle I actually feel more comfortable taking OTC PCT.

[BodyMan123]

Day 3/30
Weight=220 (+2lbs)

I weigh myself in the morning each time to get most accurate results. It's probably water weight though, we will see though.

Today was lower body. Did a lot of sit ups. Crunches. Leg raises. Leg extensions. Calf Raises. and a little bit of squatting.

Went pretty well...Still nothing out of ordinary...I'm finding it harder to have energy to workout due to me dropping my NO supplements while on cycle..But I'll be able to pick it up in a couple days.

Still to early to tell but I think I'm dropping bf %.

[Hammy907]

I have just finished my first week on Trenadrol (60mg) and havoc (30mg). Not expecting much until the 3rd week. However, BP has gone up, hence I would suggest that you use some additional Hawthorn berry. I am also running some Vitex and B6 to keep prolactin under control. The cycle is pretty dry so, fish oil is at least 25g a day and Im also using cissus. I wnt be using OTC PCT, dnt feel confident enough for that.

great advice. Every tren user should follow this to max the benefits from it. repps.


OP can you please post up pics!
I am very interested in your log because we have the same stats, except the max bench stats AND I just started the same cycle, just with different mg's.

good luck and I'll be following

[boo99]

For supports I have
Super Vitamin B CompleX
Multi-Vitamin
Vitamin C
Milk Thistle
Saw Palmetto
Fish Oil
Joint Support

For the most part I think my diet covers about everything...I'm not taking Milk Thistle or Saw Palmetto...Ill start using that in PCT....



Havoc/Tren is a mild-to moderate cycle IMO....People use OTC PCT's and are fine...People have used Reversitol off of Phera cycles and they worked...

If you don't believe me...Just wait till end of my cycle :)

oh my bad---that was directed towards hardipsrai not you sorry----

good luck with it and yes people have used Reversitol---
personally I just feel better with a SERM but will be following your PCT and Im sure will be fine man------


boo

[BodyMan123]

great advice. Every tren user should follow this to max the benefits from it. repps.


OP can you please post up pics!
I am very interested in your log because we have the same stats, except the max bench stats AND I just started the same cycle, just with different mg's.

good luck and I'll be following

yeah sure I'll get some pics up tonight or tomorrow

[austinka83]

I have the Hawthorn Berry, B6, and Milk Thistle, but these products come in different mg capsuls depending on what brand. Does anyone know the mg req for this kind ofcycle?

[hardipsrai]

Hawthorn berry (depending on % extract): 1000mg. B6 (debatable) I got for 300mg, might up it a little to 400mg, maybe even to 600mg. Milk thistle I get enough from Cycle Support.

[austinka83]

great advice. Every tren user should follow this to max the benefits from it. repps.


OP can you please post up pics!
I am very interested in your log because we have the same stats, except the max bench stats AND I just started the same cycle, just with different mg's.

good luck and I'll be following

What mg are you doing this cycle at?

[austinka83]

Hawthorn berry (depending on % extract): 1000mg. B6 (debatable) I got for 300mg, might up it a little to 400mg, maybe even to 600mg. Milk thistle I get enough from Cycle Support.

Thanks alot.

[BodyMan123]

I might invest in some vitex. I have Super B Complex and take that everyday...Theres like 50mg only of vitamin B6.

Think I am okay with my B Complex everyday? Or should I buy B6 pill only?? Or get vitex?

Where can I get some vitex?

Also might add a test booster to my PCT...But whenever I look at some test boosters all I see is Horny Goat Weed, Tribulus, and Yohimbine.

Should I get a test booster or a complex of those 3 ingredients for A LOT cheaper??

Any help appreciated thanks.

[hardipsrai]

Firstly, it is IMPORTANT that you have your 'cycle' well planned out before hand - this means that your on cycle diet, training and supps and your post cycle diet and training is well planned. This will ensure maximum gains, least amount of sides and quicker and healthier recovery.

For B6, (p5p being the better variety), I suggest using no less than 300mg for prolac' control. Vitex (Agnus castus - Chasteberry) is also worthwhile, as well as L-dopa (L-Tyrosine is a easily available and safe form).

For PCT, if you are using a serm like me, a natty test booster (Trib), with ZMA will be sufficient. I am also using AI's Post Cycle Support and something to control cortisol which is important when trying to minimise catabolism. especially post cycle.

Dnt forget the creatine post cycle!!

[Kmart23]

in 4 big gainz

[BodyMan123]

Firstly, it is IMPORTANT that you have your 'cycle' well planned out before hand - this means that your on cycle diet, training and supps and your post cycle diet and training is well planned. This will ensure maximum gains, least amount of sides and quicker and healthier recovery.

For B6, (p5p being the better variety), I suggest using no less than 300mg for prolac' control. Vitex (Agnus castus - Chasteberry) is also worthwhile, as well as L-dopa (L-Tyrosine is a easily available and safe form).

For PCT, if you are using a serm like me, a natty test booster (Trib), with ZMA will be sufficient. I am also using AI's Post Cycle Support and something to control cortisol which is important when trying to minimise catabolism. especially post cycle.

Dnt forget the creatine post cycle!!

Thanks for advice. Yeah I cycled off my cell-mass and saving rest of tub for my PCT. Same w/ Xplode and SuperPump250. What kind of cortisol control product are you using??

[BodyMan123]

in 4 big gainz

Welcome and haha I hope so too!

[hardipsrai]

For Cort' control, I will be using Phos' Serine/Vit C, and either Retain2 or Lean Xtreme

[BodyMan123]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny011.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny013.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny014.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny009.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny015.jpg

Heres some pics of me..I know I'm not in the greatest shape...but they are my before pictures....After this cycle+pct I plan on doing a nice cut.

[BodyMan123]

Day 4

Weight 221 (+1lb, +3lbs total)

When I woke up this morning it was hard for me to get out of bed. Sooo tired....I woke up and then fell asleep on couch for an hour. Didn't feel like working out at all...

I decided I'd take 1 scoop of superpump to help me today. Even though Im suppose to be saving it for PCT.

I hit a PR today 215x6 (+2 reps)

I think its time for me to invest on 2 45lb plates haha.

Had a great workout today though. No noted sides yet.

[hardipsrai]

ur under 21 right?

[BodyMan123]

ur under 21 right?

yeah im 20....whatever your going to say to this i dont want to hear it lol

[Obnoxious123]

i can tell u got a good amount of muscle undernearth there man. i hope u have a good cycle.

im off to bed, gotta wake up in 4 hours for school. fck high school!

[BodyMan123]

i can tell u got a good amount of muscle undernearth there man. i hope u have a good cycle.

im off to bed, gotta wake up in 4 hours for school. fck high school!

haha thanks, yeah i just need to do a cut once im done with this cycle and i should be looking good.

[austinka83]

Almost a pound a day, that's awesome! I think it's going to start slowing down around week 3, but the strength should keep going up!

[BodyMan123]

Day 5

Weight=222 (+1lb, +4lbs total)

Cardio day today. Just got treadmill fixed and now it skips...So I just walked for 2 hours on treadmill because it doesnt skip at that slow of a speed...

I think Im going to take a night run outside. I'll let you guys know if it's anything out of the ordinary.

Last night when I went to sleep, my joints felt wierd...not painfull but I could tell something was different w/ them...

Been taking fishoil and glucosamine + msm everyday...

Everythings going pretty good so far!

Im real excited for this week and week 3. From what I've seen people gain the most on havoc on those 2 weeks. We'll see though...

[BodyMan123]

Okay...I'm now noticing lot's of aggression...I seem to get mad a lot easier now. Like whenever I die in Call of Duty: World at War, I get sooo mad...I still feel mad right now for no reason....Its controllable but I'm still pissed off....I like it though...I feel like working out...

I also have not fapped for over a week...That could be something to do with it also....I'm not going to fap the whole time I'm on cycle...I've gone a month w/o before and my energy was really great...

Has anyone experienced aggression w/ havoc or trenadrol??.......... or not fapping for a week?? lol

[boo99]

Okay...I'm now noticing lot's of aggression...I seem to get mad a lot easier now. Like whenever I die in Call of Duty: World at War, I get sooo mad...I still feel mad right now for no reason....Its controllable but I'm still pissed off....I like it though...I feel like working out...

I also have not fapped for over a week...That could be something to do with it also....I'm not going to fap the whole time I'm on cycle...I've gone a month w/o before and my energy was really great...

Has anyone experienced aggression w/ havoc or trenadrol??.......... or not fapping for a week?? lol



ya increased aggression with 40mg of havoc but kinda a good way-------:)
esp. driving which can not be the best here in NYC......

[austinka83]

Has anyone experienced aggression w/ havoc or trenadrol??.......... or not fapping for a week?? lol

Lol, I think I know what fapping is, and I'm sorry. Last tren cycle I was on had my aggression up, but it wasn't uncontrollable. It'll stay where it's at. Keep up the good work!

[Craig Mack]

Like whenever I die in Call of Duty: World at War, I get sooo mad


lulz

[BodyMan123]

haha i know...

so you guys got aggression from havoc and tren alone??...looks like im getting X2 the aggression...haha feels like it anyway...

but its not like im going to go chris benoit on anybody

[Obnoxious123]

but its not like im going to go chris benoit on anybody

lol

ya i can tell i'm more easily aggrevated, i have a bad temper in the first place though

[BodyMan123]

Day 6/30

Weight=221 (-1lb,+3lb total)

Today was abs and legs day. Great workout today. I'm finding myself able to do more sit-ups than usual...However it is pretty hard to get motivated for a workout...

I never feel like working out and feel like I am not able to lift....However once I'm in the act of actually doing it, it is easier then normal....kinda wierd....also kind hard to explain...

Sides so far
MILD AGGRESSION ---can be good and bad in both ways.

I feel like im losing bf % we'll see if this continues or maybe am just not bloated as much as I normally am...who knows as of right now....

[BodyMan123]

Day 7

Weight 223 (+2lbs, 5lbs total)

Today I had an awesome workout working out upper body. Didn't have anyone to spot me though so that kinda sucked. I will next time though...so we will see how much my bench increased.

Going good still..

[Kmart23]

Yeah, my workouts went well also, but I didn't notice much strength increase with my bench. (actually, nothing) BUT I did notice slight strength increases in other areas.

Weight went up but I was eating like crazy. I put on an extra 16lbs in total, but I'm down about 3lbs already and only on day 4 of my pct.

[BodyMan123]

Yeah, my workouts went well also, but I didn't notice much strength increase with my bench. (actually, nothing) BUT I did notice slight strength increases in other areas.

Weight went up but I was eating like crazy. I put on an extra 16lbs in total, but I'm down about 3lbs already and only on day 4 of my pct.

are you logging it? can i get a link??

thats wierd...tren is suppose to give great strength gains....

[BigPaul0909]

im currently thinking of doing the same exact log as urs only i got a few simple questions...

1.could you please write down how and wut time you dose your 2 products

2.for your cycle howmany bottles of tren and hovac did you buy

ty

[BodyMan123]

im currently thinking of doing the same exact log as urs only i got a few simple questions...

1.could you please write down how and wut time you dose your 2 products

2.for your cycle howmany bottles of tren and hovac did you buy

ty

1. I take 3 havoc pills a day. I try to take them 8 hours apart. But really I just take them with breakfast lunch and dinner. With the tren I take 2 pills a day. A couple hours after breakfast (with a meal) and right before I go to bed with my casein.

2. I only got 1 bottle of havoc and 1 bottle of tren. Im dosing havoc 3 pills a day and tren 2 pills a day, that way both will be all gone on the same day.

[joakman]

Did you buy Hawthorn Berry? or are you not monitoring your blood pressure?

Be careful while taking stims with Tren, it can cause an increase in BP.

For cort control go for Lean Xtreme, another planet has it on sale for $25.

[BodyMan123]

Did you buy Hawthorn Berry? or are you not monitoring your blood pressure?

Be careful while taking stims with Tren, it can cause an increase in BP.

For cort control go for Lean Xtreme, another planet has it on sale for $25.

For the most part I have chosen to just have a good diet. Instead of buying all these support supps.
I do have B-Vitamins, Milk Thistle, and Saw Palmetto however. Example the butter I use is great for controlling blood pressure.

[BigPaul0909]

thank you that is very helpfull will be following the rest of the thread to c how it goes gl

[joakman]

For the most part I have chosen to just have a good diet. Instead of buying all these support supps.
I do have B-Vitamins, Milk Thistle, and Saw Palmetto however. Example the butter I use is great for controlling blood pressure.

A good diet and a form of butter won't help your blood pressure as much as hawthorn berry would.


Instead of buying all these support supps.

Pretty asinine thing to say. You should have done more research, something like cycle support or cycle assist would have been possibly cheaper and much more effective than the combo that you have now.

If you think it is a semi-mild cycle, there are tons of those who disagree that have actual credentials in the field. Having a SERM on hand and/or monitoring your blood lipid panels isn't something to be taken lightly considering you didn't know much on B6 and Vitex going into the log.

You may add a test booster to your PCT, but you only see certain ones that contain Yohimbe, Trib, and HGW? Did you actually do a search for them? The top few on the market don't contain any of the following.

I highly doubt you have run a single compound solo of anything before which astounds me more than anything. You should get advice and listen to it before diving into something that is really serious.

[Kmart23]

are you logging it? can i get a link??

thats wierd...tren is suppose to give great strength gains....

no log, sorry.

as I said, I did notice some strength gains, but I would not call them 'great', and my bench is stlil stuck like it has been for what seems an eternity.

[BodyMan123]

A good diet and a form of butter won't help your blood pressure as much as hawthorn berry would.



Pretty asinine thing to say. You should have done more research, something like cycle support or cycle assist would have been possibly cheaper and much more effective than the combo that you have now.

If you think it is a semi-mild cycle, there are tons of those who disagree that have actual credentials in the field. Having a SERM on hand and/or monitoring your blood lipid panels isn't something to be taken lightly considering you didn't know much on B6 and Vitex going into the log.

You may add a test booster to your PCT, but you only see certain ones that contain Yohimbe, Trib, and HGW? Did you actually do a search for them? The top few on the market don't contain any of the following.

I highly doubt you have run a single compound solo of anything before which astounds me more than anything. You should get advice and listen to it before diving into something that is really serious.

I have done my research. And IMO people overexaggerate on liver and blood pressure. Many others have the same opinion as I do too. Just wait till the end of my cycle. And on hawthorne berry I read a thread that it didnt do ****.. some guy monitored his BP while on cycle and it didnt do anything..SO WHY WASTE MY MONEY ON HAWTHORNE BERRY??

I knew about B6 and Vitex before I started my cycle. I've been taking B6 everyday while on cycle...I was asking what would be more beneficial. A SERM on my cycle? When people recover from Pheraplex cycles on Reversitol?? Please I don't need to hear it... I know what I'm doing.

[BodyMan123]

Oh yah and I have a SERM on hand. But I'm not going to need it, and im not going to use it....

Thanks for your info though. Our opinions are just different.

[joakman]

I might invest in some vitex. I have Super B Complex and take that everyday...Theres like 50mg only of vitamin B6.

Think I am okay with my B Complex everyday? Or should I buy B6 pill only?? Or get vitex?

Where can I get some vitex?

Also might add a test booster to my PCT...But whenever I look at some test boosters all I see is Horny Goat Weed, Tribulus, and Yohimbine.

Should I get a test booster or a complex of those 3 ingredients for A LOT cheaper??

Any help appreciated thanks.


I have done my research. And IMO people overexaggerate on liver and blood pressure. Many others have the same opinion as I do too. Just wait till the end of my cycle. And on hawthorne berry I read a thread that it didnt do ****.. some guy monitored his BP while on cycle and it didnt do anything..SO WHY WASTE MY MONEY ON HAWTHORNE BERRY??

I knew about B6 and Vitex before I started my cycle. I've been taking B6 everyday while on cycle...I was asking what would be more beneficial. A SERM on my cycle? When people recover from Pheraplex cycles on Reversitol?? Please I don't need to hear it... I know what I'm doing.

Look at bolded. You didn't even have an idea for a dosing scheme for the B6, instead you had a B-Complex.

Wondered if you should get the B6 or vitex, and not even knowing where to get it. Why would you use Trib post cycle? Trib has no testosterone boosting propertied in humans, it has been proven. Did the guy have a double-blind study? Obviously not. How would he know that it did ****? How wouldn't he know that his BP would be higher without it? All the doctors and studies that show Hawthorn Berry is beneficial helping control high blood pressure and high cholesterol must be bull****, huh?

If you have access to a SERM and choose not to use one, it is completely moronic, period. Most people can recover without any PCT at all, it just takes time! Especially in those who are young. But the other sides may be irreversible, hence the need for a SERM and other preventive means. I would like to see a unsponsored log on someone without PCT with a full lipid done to show.


Oh yah and I have a SERM on hand. But I'm not going to need it, and im not going to use it....

Thanks for your info though. Our opinions are just different.

Have fun on your first cycle. You clearly are not/were not ready for it.

[BodyMan123]

Look at bolded. You didn't even have an idea for a dosing scheme for the B6, instead you had a B-Complex.

Wondered if you should get the B6 or vitex, and not even knowing where to get it. Why would you use Trib post cycle? Trib has no testosterone boosting propertied in humans, it has been proven. Did the guy have a double-blind study? Obviously not. How would he know that it did ****? How wouldn't he know that his BP would be higher without it? All the doctors and studies that show Hawthorn Berry is beneficial helping control high blood pressure and high cholesterol must be bull****, huh?


If you have access to a SERM and choose not to use one, it is completely moronic, period. Most people can recover without any PCT at all, it just takes time! Especially in those who are young. But the other sides may be irreversible, hence the need for a SERM and other preventive means. I would like to see a unsponsored log on someone without PCT with a full lipid done to show.



Have fun on your first cycle. You clearly are not/were not ready for it.

No but he checked his blood pressure everyday and it didn't do anything..other people seemed to agree with him...

I was asking if I was okay with the B-Complex as it has a decent amount of B6 in it...of course I know where to get B6...and it doesnt matter if i dont know where to get vitex because I won't need it...and if I do need it I'll just find some and get it and I'll be okay....You dont have to take every support supp their is on cycle. I alread know what I am doing and I was asking to see other peoples opinions on it.

If you think I'm not ready for it, whatever I dont care....Just wait and see is all I'm saying...

You dont need a SERM with every cycle.

[joakman]

No but he checked his blood pressure everyday and it didn't do anything..other people seemed to agree with him...

I was asking if I was okay with the B-Complex as it has a decent amount of B6 in it...of course I know where to get B6...and it doesnt matter if i dont know where to get vitex because I won't need it...and if I do need it I'll just find some and get it and I'll be okay....You dont have to take every support supp their is on cycle. I alread know what I am doing and I was asking to see other peoples opinions on it.

If you think I'm not ready for it, whatever I dont care....Just wait and see is all I'm saying...

You dont need a SERM with every cycle.

Broscience FTL

[BodyMan123]

Broscience FTL

I knew you would neg me idc though.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=112320001&highlight=serm+blood+work+otc+pct

you dont need a serm brah!!

[joakman]

I knew you would neg me idc though.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=112320001&highlight=serm+blood+work+otc+pct

you dont need a serm brah!!

LOL strong vote by you. Where is your bloodwork?

Find me something by someone who isn't trying to push one of their products.

You may not need a SERM, but there are other chemical's out there just as illegal which are much better than anything OTC.

I would bet that you haven't studied anything on ATD and 6-bromo as well and followed the arguments on the two ingredients in the product.

BTW how did this turn to needing a SERM instead of being about Hawthorn Berry? Do you honestly believe most of what reps on here tell you and spew? Rather than what doctors, endocrinologists, and actual people with credentials suggest?

Show me some actual studies on OTC AI's which present themselves on bringing all your numbers back to baseline without a rebound, good luck.

[BodyMan123]

LOL strong vote by you. Where is your bloodwork?

Find me something by someone who isn't trying to push one of their products.

You may not need a SERM, but there are other chemical's out there just as illegal which are much better than anything OTC.

I would bet that you haven't studied anything on ATD and 6-bromo as well and followed the arguments on the two ingredients in the product.

BTW how did this turn to needing a SERM instead of being about Hawthorn Berry? Do you honestly believe most of what reps on here tell you and spew? Rather than what doctors, endocrinologists, and actual people with credentials suggest?

Show me some actual studies on OTC AI's which present themselves on bringing all your numbers back to baseline without a rebound, good luck.

The reps wern't trying to promote their products. They were saying OTC PCTS in general. Besides not everyone who posted in that thread was a rep

"If you have access to a SERM and choose not to use one, it is completely moronic, period."---quote by you

You dont know me in real life anyway. I guarantee you I WONT NEED HAWTHORNE BERRY!! So you can take your hawthorne berry and shove it up your @$$.

I dont need to hear your crap. Why dont you go into every log and start bitchin on somebody for not using a support supp. and not knowing what theyre doing b/c they dont have hawthorne berry. LOL

I got all the essentials and I'm prepared if a worst case scenario should show up.. Soo please cut the crap....go preach to the 17 year olds taking d-bol

[joakman]

The reps wern't trying to promote their products. They were saying OTC PCTS in general. Besides not everyone who posted in that thread was a rep

"If you have access to a SERM and choose not to use one, it is completely moronic, period."---quote by you

You dont know me in real life anyway. I guarantee you I WONT NEED HAWTHORNE BERRY!! So you can take your hawthorne berry and shove it up your @$$.

I dont need to hear your crap. Why dont you go into every log and start bitchin on somebody for not using a support supp. and not knowing what theyre doing b/c they dont have hawthorne berry. LOL

I got all the essentials and I'm prepared if a worst case scenario should show up.. Soo please cut the crap....go preach to the 17 year olds taking d-bol

LOL your a joke. Do you think you are any better by being 20 using a different steroid?

You had symptoms starting as early of Day 6 of lethargy and I doubt you will do anything to combat it.

You have done cardio on top of cardio which generally is a no-no while using something that can increase your BP as much as tren can.

Did you actually do any research or just search logs? Save your answer, it is quite clear.

NO-Xplode, Cell-Mass for PCT, GNC guy got you good, huh? And you are saying why would you waste your money on hawthorn berry, but have this **** on hand. Good job.

[BodyMan123]

LOL your a joke. Do you think you are any better by being 20 using a different steroid?

You had symptoms starting as early of Day 6 of lethargy and I doubt you will do anything to combat it.

You have done cardio on top of cardio which generally is a no-no while using something that can increase your BP as much as tren can.

Did you actually do any research or just search logs? Save your answer, it is quite clear.

NO-Xplode, Cell-Mass for PCT, GNC guy got you good, huh? And you are saying why would you waste your money on hawthorn berry, but have this **** on hand. Good job.

lol your the joke dude...maybe i like xplode and cell-mass and they work for me...maybe im testing the product out??

and again BP wont be a problem for me you are over exaggerating the sides of this cycle. and wtf i can do cardio on my cycle....your retarded for saying i cant...i could even take an NO product and cardio if i wanted too.

why dont you just save your crap, cause i dont want to hear it in this thread.

[2pack]

joakman you really are a joke, i hope you know that.

[joakman]

lol your the joke dude...maybe i like xplode and cell-mass and they work for me...maybe im testing the product out??

and again BP wont be a problem for me you are over exaggerating the sides of this cycle. and wtf i can do cardio on my cycle....your retarded for saying i cant...i could even take an NO product and cardio if i wanted too.

why dont you just save your crap, cause i dont want to hear it in this thread.

What other cycles have you run?


joakman you really are a joke, i hope you know that.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=270320641&postcount=759

Oh look another moron jumping on steroids, you not even knowing when to take them.

And another priceless topic:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=112814151

Someone who doesn't know the difference between steroids and PH's, but yet I am the joke? Get a clue.

[BodyMan123]

What other cycles have you run?



http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=270320641&postcount=759

Oh look another moron jumping on steroids, you not even knowing when to take them.

And another priceless topic:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=112814151

Someone who doesn't know the difference between steroids and PH's, but yet I am the joke? Get a clue.

That was long time ago A-hole...Im sure your quite the expert on them and always have been.

[BodyMan123]

Just do me a favor and quit posting in this thread. I dont want it all cluttered with your gay crap. take your hawthorne berry **** and bring it somewhere else and worry about your own blood pressure.

[joakman]

That was long time ago A-hole...Im sure your quite the expert on them and always have been.


Just do me a favor and quit posting in this thread. I dont want it all cluttered with your gay crap. take your hawthorne berry **** and bring it somewhere else and worry about your own blood pressure.

Expert? No. But I don't research logs for a month and jump into steroids and ask how to take them. Brilliant, huh?

Do you a favor? Hah

My gay crap? It seems your gay buddy 2pack joined in with you. Yay steroids and 1 month of research.

[BodyMan123]

Expert? No. But I don't research logs for a month and jump into steroids and ask how to take them. Brilliant, huh?

Do you a favor? Hah

My gay crap? It seems your gay buddy 2pack joined in with you. Yay steroids and 1 month of research.

Well atleast I did a month of research, I'm just saying people back in my highschool who took no supports have turned out fine... I believe I'll do great on my cycle, even though there is a few OPTIONAL things I could add.

But I don't want to argue all day/night about stupid stuff. So you can reply to this comment however you like. I'm just going to continue on with my log.

If you give advice I'll take it into consideration, but if your just going to argue I don't want to hear it, k thanks.

[joakman]

Well atleast I did a month of research, I'm just saying people back in my highschool who took no supports have turned out fine... I believe I'll do great on my cycle, even though there is a few OPTIONAL things I could add.

But I don't want to argue all day/night about stupid stuff. So you can reply to this comment however you like. I'm just going to continue on with my log.

If you give advice I'll take it into consideration, but if your just going to argue I don't want to hear it, k thanks.

You can't even define 'fine'. No chance they had blood work done in high school while taking steroids because a doctor wouldn't do a full panel on a teen in HS without reasoning. Just because they probably kept a good amount of gains means absolute ****. You should do great on your cycle. Any kid that is 20, eats a lot, lifts weights will grow without steroids, never mind factoring them into the equation.

[KDG11]

alright lets stop with the bickering and continue on with the log!

[Obnoxious123]

joakman - every try actually helping?

if you think what the OP is doing is wrong, try to help him, not just criticize him. he's going to do the cycle, why not help him with your knowledge if you have the time to post here anyways?

[joakman]

joakman - every try actually helping?

if you think what the OP is doing is wrong, try to help him, not just criticize him. he's going to do the cycle, why not help him with your knowledge if you have the time to post here anyways?


Did you buy Hawthorn Berry? or are you not monitoring your blood pressure?

Be careful while taking stims with Tren, it can cause an increase in BP.

For cort control go for Lean Xtreme, another planet has it on sale for $25.

My 1st post ^

Was it not helpful?

I help more members on this forum by PM than most help on the forums themselves. Don't tell me to help where help isn't wanted.

[BodyMan123]

My 1st post ^

Was it not helpful?

I help more members on this forum by PM than most help on the forums themselves. Don't tell me to help where help isn't wanted.

Your 1st post was helpful thanks for that...anyways lets just forget about our little arguement.

Any other advice you have for me??

[BodyMan123]

Day 8

Weight 222 (-1lb, 4lbs total)
Not too worried about my weight..as long as I gain muscle and lose fat.

Did a lot of cardio today. Ran around the neighborhood a bit..Finally got treadmill fixed also and ran on that for an hour...

Felt no sides at all today...No aggression, no nothin...

[BodyMan123]

Day 9

Weight-220 (-2lbs, +2lbs total)

Was lower body today, my relatives from Milwaukee surprised me and showed up at my door today. Didn't get too great of a workout in.

Day 10
Weight-??? Forgot to weigh, and already ate breakfast when I remembered.

Hit PR's on Bench Press 215x8! Thats +4 reps in 10 days. I hope this continues.

Day 11

Weight-?? Forgot again due to relatives being here.

Had good cardio day!! I just did treadmill today. 500 cals in morning and 500 cals in afternoon.

Relatives left so I can get more serious on my diet/training.

[joakman]

Good luck throughout your cycle.

Just wanted to show you that I wasn't pissing wind with the dangers of tren:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=113492211

Just a heads up.

[Obnoxious123]

Good luck throughout your cycle.

Just wanted to show you that I wasn't pissing wind with the dangers of tren:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=113492211

Just a heads up.

Yeah tren can do that, I see more people get progestin gyno than from any other compounds. It was just the way you were coming about this thread - it could have been...better I guess. I think you know what I mean.

[joakman]

Yeah tren can do that, I see more people get progestin gyno than from any other compounds. It was just the way you were coming about this thread - it could have been...better I guess. I think you know what I mean.

I feel strongly about the use of PH/DS use and feel that this sums it up..


Age:
I'm not even going to get into this issue. It's been covered hundreds of times. If you are not 21 or older you should wait but ultimately it's your decision. That being said lets move on!

If you don't meet the following requirements, you are NOT ready to use steroids:
If you didn't know that PHs are steroids.
If you don't know what PCT stands for.
If you're taking it because the guy behind the counter of GNC told you this stuff is great and will get you hooyge.
If you are a casual gym goer
If you are new to the gym and want to get big quick
If you don't keep track of your calories
If your diet is not spot on
If you haven't put on at LEAST 20 lbs of muscle naturally
If you haven't suffered from diminishing gains as far as gaining weight is concerned
If you haven't tried other alternatives such as creatine, or even natural testosterone boosters
If you haven't researched for at least 6 months to a year
If you don't have a source for SERMS (unless you are in a country that can?t obtain them)
If you haven't planned your cycle and pct out on paper
If you haven't ran your cycle and pct past at least 3 knowledgeable friends.
If you don't have all of your necessary support sups and PCT on hand prior to starting the cycle.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE INSURANCE



If you can't answer these questions you need to do more research

Courtesy of jhicks

[BodyMan123]

Thanks for heads up! Didn't he say he thought it wasnt gyno and just a puffy nip/nips hurting though?? IDK I'll be careful. If worst comes to worst I'll stop and go straight to PCT.

[BodyMan123]

Day 12

Weight-222 (+2lbs, +4lbs total)

Today was lower body and had a good workout. Did 200 sit-ups and a crap-load of leg raises. Did 100 reps total of 130lb leg curls. Did a bunch of calf raises too.

My friend made this facebook competition which involve about 10-15 people (some my friends some not). Started today and Ends April 19th. It's called the "300 challenge". Whoever looks most like a 300 dude on April 19th wins. I hope I can win it.

I think all I'm going to change is add an hour of walking on upper body and lower body day. Keep cardio day the same. What do you guys think??

[joakman]

If your goal is mass, I would cut out cardio completely. But, if it is a recomp; light cardio is ok.

[Jigsaw-Man]

Hey Joakman,

I appreciate you trying to help, I really do and yes I agree he's written some things that makes me believe he wasn't completely prepared for this cycle. But in the meantime lets wait and watch what happens and cut him some slack until after cycle.

I'm excited to see the results of his efforts, Tren/Epi seems to be a fantastic stack (and one to take seriously).

Subbed!

[BodyMan123]

Hey Joakman,

I appreciate you trying to help, I really do and yes I agree he's written some things that makes me believe he wasn't completely prepared for this cycle. But in the meantime lets wait and watch what happens and cut him some slack until after cycle.

I'm excited to see the results of his efforts, Tren/Epi seems to be a fantastic stack (and one to take seriously).

Subbed!

It's cool man, hes been helping..

[BodyMan123]

Day 14

Weight=221 (-1lb, +3lb total)

Today was upper body.. Didn't have a spot today but I felt really powerful on my bench. I was lifting a lot more then normal. My muscles seem to have more hardness to them also.

[Obnoxious123]

Nice going so far man.

[BodyMan123]

Day 15

Weight-N/A

Sooo today I decided I'm going to bump down tren to 30mg. I might completley drop it though..

Reasoning for me wanting to drop Tren. Include
--Want to do hardcore cardio without worrying
--Want to take NO/Fat burners
--I want to do more of a recomp now to win the 300 competition with my friends and don't want to be consuming a ton of calories which are needed for tren to work at it's best.
--Concerned about my breast tissue flair up..I know this is common for everyone but still it scares me...and I've read on some people it never went away.

IDK if I'm going to drop it completley yet or just lower the dose....Still deciding....Any thoughts feel free to chime in.

[Obnoxious123]

u can take AAKG powder with tren. it actually will lessen your BP.

i've seen more people get flare ups with epi then with tren.

i don't think tren at 30mgs will do much

[BodyMan123]

I also think I'm going to switch up my workout plan..

Current Workout Routine
Sunday-Upper Body
Monday-Lower Body
Tuesday-Cardio
Thursday-Upper Body
Friday-Lower Body
Saturday-Cardio

New Workout Routine
Sunday-Lower Body &Cardio
Monday-Upper Body
Tuesday-Lower Body & Cardio
Wednesday-Upper Body
Thursday-Lower Body & Cardio
Friday-Upper Body

I want to switch cause simpy I feel like I'm recovering from my workouts faster... I think I'll benefit more off this plan... Because keep in mind I'm doing high reps. About 8-12.

I'm not feeling any soreness at all also...

Still deciding on this also...what do you guys think??

[BodyMan123]

u can take AAKG powder with tren. it actually will lessen your BP.

i've seen more people get flare ups with epi then with tren.

i don't think tren at 30mgs will do much

Did you take Kilosports Trenadrol with your bold? ? or was it a different kind of Tren??

[Twin Towers]

I must completely side with joakman on this. Bro you clearly are not well versed enough to put your body through such a suppresive cycle at such a young age. I hope all goes well

[joakman]

u can take AAKG powder with tren. it actually will lessen your BP.

i've seen more people get flare ups with epi then with tren.

i don't think tren at 30mgs will do much

I would love to see where you get that from. Tren is one compound that is prone to developing flare ups from its nature of the compound.


As far as you not being sore, are you doing high volume or low volume?

[Craig Mack]

Day 15

Sooo today I decided I'm going to bump down tren to 30mg. I might completley drop it though..


Running Tren @ 30mg is going to be worthless especially at your height/weight. It would be better to just drop it all together.

[BodyMan123]

I must completely side with joakman on this. Bro you clearly are not well versed enough to put your body through such a suppresive cycle at such a young age. I hope all goes well

Maybe I wasn't completley ready for tren. I don't seen how much more I could have prepared for the prolactin issues though. Age doesnt really matter that much...besides you don't think people like Arnold were juicing at this age??


I would love to see where you get that from. Tren is one compound that is prone to developing flare ups from its nature of the compound.


As far as you not being sore, are you doing high volume or low volume?

Heres my bench workout.
135x15 (warm up)
2 sets 165x15
2 sets 185x10
1 set 215 x8 as much as I can do. but it's around 8

After this I repeat everything backwards.


Running Tren @ 30mg is going to be worthless especially at your height/weight. It would be better to just drop it all together.

Okay thanks for advice man.

[joakman]

Maybe I wasn't completley ready for tren. I don't seen how much more I could have prepared for the prolactin issues though. Age doesnt really matter that much...besides you don't think people like Arnold were juicing at this age??

You have got a lot to learn. You shouldn't compare yourself to Arnold, considering what he was doing was probably monitored and mapped out for him with illegal products that are much safer than what OTC products are around now. Age plays a big factor and most males do not stop physically maturing until there late 20's.

There are plenty of other things that could have been done to prevent prolactin issues, it takes research.

And that isn't a routine by any means. That is an exercise. I hope that isn't your upper body day..

[BodyMan123]

You have got a lot to learn. You shouldn't compare yourself to Arnold, considering what he was doing was probably monitored and mapped out for him with illegal products that are much safer than what OTC products are around now. Age plays a big factor and most males do not stop physically maturing until there late 20's.

There are plenty of other things that could have been done to prevent prolactin issues, it takes research.

And that isn't a routine by any means. That is an exercise. I hope that isn't your upper body day..

Well yeah i know i was just showing you my bench workout.. I do Triceps Extend, Preacher Curls, Rows, etc.

I was just showing you that I do more reps.

[joakman]

Well yeah i know i was just showing you my bench workout.. I do Triceps Extend, Preacher Curls, Rows, etc.

I was just showing you that I do more reps.

What does leg day look like? Or is it split up?

[BodyMan123]

What does leg day look like? Or is it split up?

Squats, Calf Raises, Leg Curls, Deadlifts on leg day.
I also do Abs on leg day too. Sit ups, Crunches, Leg raises.

[joakman]

Squats, Calf Raises, Leg Curls, Deadlifts on leg day.
I also do Abs on leg day too. Sit ups, Crunches, Leg raises.

You do this 2x a week? How are your strength gains?

[Craig Mack]

mapped out for him with illegal products that are much safer than what OTC products are around now.

That's a pretty big blanket statement right there. What constitutes "much safer" in your eyes??????????? All steroids/hormones share a potential list of sides including high BP, bad lipid profiles/high cholesterol, etc. Dianabol was popular in arnolds day and that's more harmfull to the liver than a lot of the PH's today.

Now if you would have said that AAS has been around longer, and people generally know what to expect on a person-to-person basis better as far as side effects go, I would agree. But they are not necissarily more or less safe.

[joakman]

That's a pretty big blanket statement right there. What constitutes "much safer" in your eyes??????????? All steroids/hormones share a potential list of sides including high BP, bad lipid profiles/high cholesterol, etc. Dianabol was popular in arnolds day and that's more harmfull to the liver than a lot of the PH's today.

Now if you would have said that AAS has been around longer, and people generally know what to expect on a person-to-person basis better as far as side effects go, I would agree. But they are not necissarily more or less safe.

I would say injectables as a whole are much safer than orals, no?

[BodyMan123]

You do this 2x a week? How are your strength gains?

Am I doing something wrong?? Strength gains are okay...I can tell I'm losing fat and getting more muscle though.

[joakman]

Am I doing something wrong?? Strength gains are okay...I can tell I'm losing fat and getting more muscle though.

It was just to see how strength was coming along. Some people can't Squat/Deadlift more than 1x a week as it can hinder gains for some.

[Obnoxious123]

I would love to see where you get that from. Tren is one compound that is prone to developing flare ups from its nature of the compound.


As far as you not being sore, are you doing high volume or low volume?

From the logs that I've seen, I've seen more people get rebound gyno from epi then i've seen get gyno from trenadrol

[Craig Mack]

I would say injectables as a whole are much safer than orals, no?

When comparing unmethylated orals to injectables I would say no. Safer than methylated ones? Sure, but that's obviously because of the methyl's potential harm to the liver. But I would say the typical list of potential sides with hormones can happen to anyone using any type of hormone. Of course, injectables have a longer track record, so typically a user can better expect which side effects will occur, but if you're smart and know what you're doing and take precautionary measures that should be negligible.

[joakman]

When comparing unmethylated orals to injectables I would say no. Safer than methylated ones? Sure, but that's obviously because of the methyl's potential harm to the liver. But I would say the typical list of potential sides with hormones can happen to anyone using any type of hormone.

I will stand by my statement with saying injectables as a whole are much safer than oral's as a whole. I would also believe that the steroid community would overwhelmingly agree as well, but that is neither here nor there. My whole point is that comparing the cycle he is running to Arnold at his age is/was pointless. If you can't agree there, I don't know what to tell you.

[Craig Mack]

My whole point is that comparing the cycle he is running to Arnold at his age is/was pointless. If you can't agree there, I don't know what to tell you.

lol I didn't see his post what's all that jazz about?

[joakman]

lol I didn't see his post what's all that jazz about?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=277706151&postcount=92

[BodyMan123]

I was just sayin people like him took roids and are fine health wise..

People in highschool when 17 take AAS. and they haven't had any problems.

[joakman]

I was just sayin people like him took roids and are fine health wise..

People in highschool when 17 take AAS. and they haven't had any problems.

Arnold doesn't look 'fine' health wise now. You can't define 'fine' without bloodwork, both pre and post.

[BodyMan123]

Arnold doesn't look 'fine' health wise now. You can't define 'fine' without bloodwork, both pre and post.

Yeah I suppose your right...but he's alive at least!!! haha :)

[hardipsrai]

Thought id chime in....

Im on week 3 of my trenadrol/havoc cycle. Strength gains are amazing, however, it is a very very dry cycle and the joint pains are kicking in even though I am using bulk cissus and fish oil. Prolactin, well.... so far so good, nipples have been a little more sensitive, but im using vitex, velvet bean, b6 and tyrosine, which is working well. Another thing which i am amazed at is, my libido has sky rocketed!!!

PCT is still Clomid, PCS, Lean Xtreme, Phos' serine, creatine.

[Craig Mack]

Thought id chime in....

Im on week 3 of my trenadrol/havoc cycle. Strength gains are amazing, however, it is a very very dry cycle and the joint pains are kicking in even though I am using bulk cissus and fish oil. Prolactin, well.... so far so good, nipples have been a little more sensitive, but im using vitex, velvet bean, b6 and tyrosine, which is working well. Another thing which i am amazed at is, my libido has sky rocketed!!!

PCT is still Clomid, PCS, Lean Xtreme, Phos' serine, creatine.

Interesting, my libido is way down, but i'm only running tren, not havoc. And I agree, the strength gains from the Tren are LEGIT!!!!!!! Nearly all my lifts have gone up 10lbs each week....its nuts!

[-ShockWave-]

Day 15

Weight-N/A

Sooo today I decided I'm going to bump down tren to 30mg. I might completley drop it though..

Reasoning for me wanting to drop Tren. Include
--Want to do hardcore cardio without worrying
--Want to take NO/Fat burners
--I want to do more of a recomp now to win the 300 competition with my friends and don't want to be consuming a ton of calories which are needed for tren to work at it's best.
--Concerned about my breast tissue flair up..I know this is common for everyone but still it scares me...and I've read on some people it never went away.

IDK if I'm going to drop it completley yet or just lower the dose....Still deciding....Any thoughts feel free to chime in.

Well if you did I would understand. Flush the Trenadrol that is just garbage. Im almost positive the sides you are having are from the Tren, Also your BF% is high, this means that now your even more prone to Estro effects especially gyno. Honestly you should have just stuck with Epi. it makes for a good cycle for your stats.
Lastly, Ive taken SD HD 1AD first gen 4AD first gen PP and Epi. I wouldnt even touch Trenadrol because of its sides and its suppresion. No one really knows what the chemical in trenadrol really is and or does. What I do know is from the blood tests and all the logs apon logs ive read over and over saying the same thing about that crap. Alot of people get soo suppresed that it takes em months for their bodys to restore back to normal. Also it seems almost everyone gets sore nips after 3 weeks. IMO its just plain ass junk.

[BodyMan123]

Well if you did I would understand. Flush the Trenadrol that is just garbage. Im almost positive the sides you are having are from the Tren, Also your BF% is high, this means that now your even more prone to Estro effects especially gyno. Honestly you should have just stuck with Epi. it makes for a good cycle for your stats.
Lastly, Ive taken SD HD 1AD first gen 4AD first gen PP and Epi. I wouldnt even touch Trenadrol because of its sides and its suppresion. No one really knows what the chemical in trenadrol really is and or does. What I do know is from the blood tests and all the logs apon logs ive read over and over saying the same thing about that crap. Alot of people get soo suppresed that it takes em months for their bodys to restore back to normal. Also it seems almost everyone gets sore nips after 3 weeks. IMO its just plain ass junk.

Yeah I took it out..and from what I've seen Trenadrol is a lot more harsh than other Tren products.

[jpinfantry]

just found this thread and thought i would throw in my thoughts. i took trenadrol a few months ago and i thought it was great. i just followed up with some 6 oxo and had no problems.

right now im on havoc/testabolan cycle...im only a few days in so ill see how i like it.

[Twin Towers]

Interesting, my libido is way down, but i'm only running tren, not havoc. And I agree, the strength gains from the Tren are LEGIT!!!!!!! Nearly all my lifts have gone up 10lbs each week....its nuts!

lol not too long ago I believe I remember you saying "this will be my last cycle" (reffering to your 3AD). The classic reversal. Hey; who can blame you ? ;)

[Craig Mack]

lol not too long ago I believe I remember you saying "this will be my last cycle" (reffering to your 3AD). The classic reversal. Hey; who can blame you ? ;)

lmao!!!!!! Damn Joe you caught me! :( :D :D :D

[Obnoxious123]

Well if you did I would understand. Flush the Trenadrol that is just garbage. Im almost positive the sides you are having are from the Tren, Also your BF% is high, this means that now your even more prone to Estro effects especially gyno. Honestly you should have just stuck with Epi. it makes for a good cycle for your stats.
Lastly, Ive taken SD HD 1AD first gen 4AD first gen PP and Epi. I wouldnt even touch Trenadrol because of its sides and its suppresion. No one really knows what the chemical in trenadrol really is and or does. What I do know is from the blood tests and all the logs apon logs ive read over and over saying the same thing about that crap. Alot of people get soo suppresed that it takes em months for their bodys to restore back to normal. Also it seems almost everyone gets sore nips after 3 weeks. IMO its just plain ass junk.

hmm i never even got sensitive nipples...just prob once or twice, but that happens sometimes for me.

[joakman]

hmm i never even got sensitive nipples...just prob once or twice, but that happens sometimes for me.

Aren't you in high school, or am I confusing you with someone?

[Craig Mack]

Aren't you in high school, or am I confusing you with someone?

yes I believe he is a pubescent 17 year old

[joakman]

yes I believe he is a pubescent 17 year old

Seriously?

[Craig Mack]

Seriously?

Yes, he is 17. Great age to be taking steroids eh? lulz.

[joakman]

Yes, he is 17. Great age to be taking steroids eh? lulz.

All makes sense now

[ONtop888]

I just came across your thread bud and I would advise you to drop the Tren immediately, if you haven't already. Gyno isn't the type of sh it you wanna be stuck with for the rest of your life bro. Also, you have a good strong foundation to work with....I think if you copied a fellow BB members workout plan and went on a cut, you would do BIG things. At your age, you can make real BIG gains with the 'staple' supplements of lifting....hit me back if you have any questions.

[joakman]

I just came across your thread bud and I would advise you to drop the Tren immediately, if you haven't already. Gyno isn't the type of sh it you wanna be stuck with for the rest of your life bro. Also, you have a good strong foundation to work with....I think if you copied a fellow BB members workout plan and went on a cut, you would do BIG things. At your age, you can make real BIG gains with the 'staple' supplements of lifting....hit me back if you have any questions.

Well said, I also scoped your dymeth log, good luck

[ONtop888]

Well said, I also scoped your dymeth log, good luck

thanks man

[BodyMan123]

I just came across your thread bud and I would advise you to drop the Tren immediately, if you haven't already. Gyno isn't the type of sh it you wanna be stuck with for the rest of your life bro. Also, you have a good strong foundation to work with....I think if you copied a fellow BB members workout plan and went on a cut, you would do BIG things. At your age, you can make real BIG gains with the 'staple' supplements of lifting....hit me back if you have any questions.

thanks a lot dude, i really appreciate the honest feedback.. ..yeah i dropped the tren completley yesterday..

anybody want some trenadrol?? haha

[joakman]

thanks a lot dude, i really appreciate the honest feedback.. ..yeah i dropped the tren completley yesterday..

anybody want some trenadrol?? haha

Any signs of lethargy? Or are you taking any caffeine?

[Obnoxious123]

Yes, he is 17. Great age to be taking steroids eh? lulz.

Just trying to help people out. U stalkin me? your my highest bodyspace visitor O.o

if you want to respond please PM, just wanted to defend myself in this thread...

i hope your cycle goes good OP, still watchin!

[BodyMan123]

Any signs of lethargy? Or are you taking any caffeine?

Not really actually, I've gotten it in the beginning of cycle... Now that I've dropped tren I have been taking a scoop of explode or a scoop of superpump though.

Good job on winning the CL Promo thread btw.


Just trying to help people out. U stalkin me? your my highest bodyspace visitor O.o

if you want to respond please PM, just wanted to defend myself in this thread...

i hope your cycle goes good OP, still watchin!

Yeah thanks! you da man

[joakman]

Not really actually, I've gotten it in the beginning of cycle... Now that I've dropped tren I have been taking a scoop of explode or a scoop of superpump though.

Good job on winning the CL Promo thread btw.

Good to hear there. You taking Havoc on an empty stomach or with food? I see a lot of mixed opinions out there.

Thanks, I had like 200 guesses and the winning guess should have been my first one. I knew that he liked Marz from his old logs haha

[BodyMan123]

Good to hear there. You taking Havoc on an empty stomach or with food? I see a lot of mixed opinions out there.

Thanks, I had like 200 guesses and the winning guess should have been my first one. I knew that he liked Marz from his old logs haha

1st pill i take with breakfast
2nd pill i normally take with a protein shake
3rd pill right before bed with my casein

hmm....i would like to know more about this...

[joakman]

1st pill i take with breakfast
2nd pill i normally take with a protein shake
3rd pill right before bed with my casein

hmm....i would like to know more about this...

One side says take on empty stomach so that you don't lose any of the potency.

The other says take with foods/fats so that it slows the absorption of it, but still remaining with the potency, while it will cause less strain on the liver.

I am looking for studies on the matter or something beneficial. If anyone has any input, I am all ears.

[BodyMan123]

One side says take on empty stomach so that you don't lose any of the potency.

The other says take with foods/fats so that it slows the absorption of it, but still remaining with the potency, while it will cause less strain on the liver.

I am looking for studies on the matter or something beneficial. If anyone has any input, I am all ears.

I actually might try empty stomach along with some grapefruit juice as it increases bioavailabilty.

I know it can increase the effects of Blusphar (prescription drug) by 4 times!! However some drugs it doesnt work on, like sleeping pills for example...they say "little to no effect"...

I'll research more on this though.

[joakman]

I actually might try empty stomach along with some grapefruit juice as it increases bioavailabilty.

I know it can increase the effects of Blusphar (prescription drug) by 4 times!! However some drugs it doesnt work on, like sleeping pills for example...they say "little to no effect"...

I'll research more on this though.

Yeah, let me know how that goes. I may use it during my upcoming cycle.

[boo99]

just found this thread and thought i would throw in my thoughts. i took trenadrol a few months ago and i thought it was great. i just followed up with some 6 oxo and had no problems.

right now im on havoc/testabolan cycle...im only a few days in so ill see how i like it.


hey jpinfantry

I know much about the Havoc (since Im on day 37 of my cycle) but what made you choose Testabolan over the many other stacks available?

Not making an opinion about it--- I just am curious as to your choice so i can learn something about it-------

thnx bro



boo

[BodyMan123]

Day 16

Weight- N/A

Had good lower body day..Feeling a lot better w/ tren dropped and being able to take NO's.

Day 17

Weight=222

Had a decent upper body day...Just didnt feel like working out that much..Pretty sure it wasn't lethargy...I get this feeling normally every once in a while..

I'll try to be more in detail starting from now.

What do you guys suggest? Should I stack fat burners while on cycle right now? PCT? or after PCT?

[Obnoxious123]

just take LX during PCT imo

[BodyMan123]

Day 18

Weight-219

Today I did lower body and cardio.Just an average workout.
I can definitley tell I'm gaining more muscle on my arms!!
Oh and last night I had some calve pumps!! Wern't too bad though...I didnt even workout calves that day.

Using taurine and potassium.

[superflyjtown7]

Day 18

Weight-219

Today I did lower body and cardio.Just an average workout.
I can definitley tell I'm gaining more muscle on my arms!!
Oh and last night I had some calve pumps!! Wern't too bad though...I didnt even workout calves that day.

Using taurine and potassium.

haha the way you said that makes it seem like you enjoyed those calf pumps

[BodyMan123]

Day 19

Weight-219

Ahh today the SuperPump didnt work as well as it normally does for me... had an okay workout though.. I stayed the same on my bench though kinda sucks. but I was def. not pumped up like I was last time.. But it will improve greatly this week, I feel it..

Also did an hour on the treadmill. Sweated a crap-load more than normal..dunno why though?

[jpinfantry]

hey jpinfantry

I know much about the Havoc (since Im on day 37 of my cycle) but what made you choose Testabolan over the many other stacks available?

Not making an opinion about it--- I just am curious as to your choice so i can learn something about it-------

thnx bro



boo
hey boo honestly i just did a few months of following peoples logs on their cycles so i decided to test it out. so far ive been on the havoc/testabolan for a week and i feel a little difference. ill have to continue longer before i can tell whether its a good stack or not.
how is havoc working for you? also what are you using if any PCT.

[boo99]

hey boo honestly i just did a few months of following peoples logs on their cycles so i decided to test it out. so far ive been on the havoc/testabolan for a week and i feel a little difference. ill have to continue longer before i can tell whether its a good stack or not.
how is havoc working for you? also what are you using if any PCT.

sent you a pm about this


boo

[BodyMan123]

Day 20

Did a little bit of abs not too much though and ran for like an hour on treadmill.

Day 21

Did 2 hours on treadmill and only did leg curls and calf raises.

Day 22

Today I'm taking a full rest day, I feel like I need it. No Cardio, No lifting.

Weight=218 for all 3 days.

My appetite is really low. I think I'm going to work on fixing that today. Anyone else experience this with havoc?

Besides low appetite I haven't had any sides lately at all.
No lethargy
No Joint Pain
No Aggression
No Calf Pumps

[BodyMan123]

Day 23

Weight=220

Was feeling good and had a great workout today. My energy seems to never wear down especially with cardio.

Everyone says they get great pumps with havoc, but I have not...I decided to start loading on creatine today also...and run it throughout my PCT as well.

No sides at all today. I haven't even taken taurine for awhile and no calf pumps.

Tomorrow I am going to work-out my abs hardcore for this 300 competition. I have a feeling my friend will be judging mostly on abs, even though the 300 guys are built all around.

I just hope I can get my abs actually showing in time...

Based on my pictures do you guys think I could get my abs showing by April 20th??

[Craig Mack]

Day 23


I just hope I can get my abs actually showing in time...

Based on my pictures do you guys think I could get my abs showing by April 20th??

abs are all diet man. you can do a million ab exercises and they aren't going to show. Low body fat is the only way. No PH/Exercise routine is going to get them to show. If abs are your goal, you'd be better off doing a strict cut.

[BodyMan123]

abs are all diet man. you can do a million ab exercises and they aren't going to show. Low body fat is the only way. No PH/Exercise routine is going to get them to show. If abs are your goal, you'd be better off doing a strict cut.

I agree as in diet being the most important part for abs, But its not all diet.. Yeah once I run out of creatine, I'm going to start my cut.

[BodyMan123]

Day 24

Weight--??

Typical day, good workout nothing unusual. No sides. I've noticed I have been gaining a lot of ab muscle but it still isn't that noticeable... It is to me however b/c I can feel my stomach is a lot harder.

Day 25

Weight--??

Good running day, feel like I could run all day if I wanted. I'm going to start doing sprints. Again No sides.

I'm all loaded up on creatine, my arms are huge.. We will see how well this works tomorrow on my bench.

[Bigwill21]

Subbed! Good Luck Bro! Starting my epi/max lmg clone cycle Tuesday!

When you gonna post progress pics??

[BodyMan123]

Subbed! Good Luck Bro! Starting my epi/max lmg clone cycle Tuesday!

When you gonna post progress pics??

Right when I start PCT and right when PCT is done.

[Bigwill21]

If your trying to look like a guy from 300 your gonna have to do a strict diet and some major cardio.

When i do do cardio i do HIIT(High Interval Intensity Training). I just cant stand running for an hour. HIIT is where you jog/walk for 30 seconds and then sprint for 30 seconds. And you only do it for 20 min! Its supposed to keep your metabolism ramped up for a whole lot longer than just of slo-cardio and in the long run you will burn more calories. Also on your workouts I would do supersets to expend more calories and up the intensity!

Diet wise your gonna have to be strict as far as lean meats low glycemic carbs and lots of veggies. Try to limit your carb intake to 100g. If you want every 7th day throw a cheat day where you can eat more of what you want.

You 2 1/2 months to go, You have a lot of work a head of you. I will be monitoring your progress, just PM me if you need anymore advice!!

If I were you I would invest in a E/C/Y stack!

[BodyMan123]

If your trying to look like a guy from 300 your gonna have to do a strict diet and some major cardio.

When i do do cardio i do HIIT(High Interval Intensity Training). I just cant stand running for an hour. HIIT is where you jog/walk for 30 seconds and then sprint for 30 seconds. And you only do it for 20 min! Its supposed to keep your metabolism ramped up for a whole lot longer than just of slo-cardio and in the long run you will burn more calories. Also on your workouts I would do supersets to expend more calories and up the intensity!

Diet wise your gonna have to be strict as far as lean meats low glycemic carbs and lots of veggies. Try to limit your carb intake to 100g. If you want every 7th day throw a cheat day where you can eat more of what you want.

You 2 1/2 months to go, You have a lot of work a head of you. I will be monitoring your progress, just PM me if you need anymore advice!!

If I were you I would invest in a E/C/Y stack!

Thanks for the advice man...I really appreciate it...

I'd rather not throw in any cheat meals... However when I cheat on rare occasions..I kinda feel like it is good for me...IDK why...but I look/feel skinnier the next day after eating 5-6 pieces of pizza (only when I maintain a healthy diet for around 1-2months, otherwise if I eat crap all the day I get bloated like crazy).... its kinda wierd..im going to have to take pics of this one day.

What is a E/C/Y stack??
I'm guessing Ephedra/Caffeine/Yohimbine???
I have VPX Meltdown half a bottle and a crap-load of fat burner samples.

I do have a lot of work ahead of me... But I'm really motivated to do anything I can do.

I do need to eat more fruits/veggies though..I'm only getting about 2-5 servings a day.. I'll be working on that starting today.

Thanks for advice again.

I think when I run out of creatine I'm going to start my fat burners, which is about 2 weeks... Which will be the start of week 2 in my PCT. Is this a good idea??

I ran out of NO supplements today besides 1 juggernaught sample. I don't plan on buying any more for a long while though.

[Bigwill21]

I'd rather not throw in any cheat meals... However when I cheat on rare occasions..I kinda feel like it is good for me...IDK why...but I look/feel skinnier the next day after eating 5-6 pieces of pizza (only when I maintain a healthy diet for around 1-2months, otherwise if I eat crap all the day I get bloated like crazy).... its kinda wierd..im going to have to take pics of this one day.

What is a E/C/Y stack??
I'm guessing Ephedra/Caffeine/Yohimbine???
I have VPX Meltdown half a bottle and a crap-load of fat burner samples.

I do have a lot of work ahead of me... But I'm really motivated to do anything I can do.

I do need to eat more fruits/veggies though..I'm only getting about 2-5 servings a day.. I'll be working on that starting today.

Thanks for advice again.

I think when I run out of creatine I'm going to start my fat burners, which is about 2 weeks... Which will be the start of week 2 in my PCT. Is this a good idea??

I ran out of NO supplements today besides 1 juggernaught sample. I don't plan on buying any more for a long while though.

For the most part when you eat clean for an extended period of time then you eat your favorites which are usually processed high glycemic carbs it spikes your insulin and shoves alot of those carbs in your muscles, thats why you get that huge pump after eating a cheat meal. Also eating a cheat meal is more of a psychological edge, because if you tell yourself your not gonna cheat for two months then you'll ended up letting yourself down and lose momentum if/when you do cheat.

IMO there is nothing better or cost efficient as E/C/Y. Energy, fat loss, and strength are unmatched when taking this stack compared to jerk off products like hydroxycut or whatever! PM and I can point you in the direction of 700 10mg Ephedrine for $90 that will last you a long time. Supplement Direct which you can find on BB.com, offers 200g of Caffeine for $10 which is a 1000 servings and i can point you in the direction to get 3g yohimbine hcl for $10. Most people only need 20mg of yohimbine so that is 150 servings. So this stack will cost you $110 or less(if you wanted to buy less ephedrine) and would last a year worth of cutting!

I would keep using the creatine even on a cut because creatine will help you keep your strength gains plus it will help keep your cells hydrated which would make it anti catabolic(less muscle loss). If you get bloated from plain creatine switch over to Kre-Alkalyn. Its a buffered form of creatine, in theory 1g is equal to 10g of regular creatine because of absorption problems of regular creatine, which makes you bloated. Supplement Direct has 200g Kre for $20.

NO products are worthless IMO as well. Buy bulk AAKG and you will be happy with just that. Its $15 for 250g.

LOL, I should freaking get some free supps for reppn them so much!

Eat a **** load of veggies. Something about them freaking leans you up. Not only that you can eat 4cups of broccoli for 100cal so it will help you fill up your stomach and curve some craving, but you will be extremely gassy! Ha!

Sry 2 ramble, just got done working out and my ephedrine and caffeine are still at full blast!

[BodyMan123]

Day 26

Weight-226...im loaded full of creatine...but wow thats a lot of weight since i last weighed..

Today I made a PR on my bench. 215x9. Beginning of cycle it was 215x4. Do you guys consider that bad, okay, or good progress??

I really need to get more weight for my bench.

[Bigwill21]

I've never taken epi so I dont know.

But when I took SD my bench was goin up 10lbs a week!

I started off working out with 205x4 and ended up with 245x4!

But no that is awesome, you've more than doubled your reps, CONGRATS!

I start my cycle tomorrow! SO EXCITED! Should I do a log?

[Bigwill21]

use this calculator to estimate your 1 rep max:

X2reps 215x.03
x3reps 215x.06
x4reps 215x.09
ETC...

just add three .03 to each additional rep to determine your estimated 1 rep max

I used to use this with clients who werent comfortable doing 1rep max, plus if you dont have a spotter its a safer way to determine it, and its really accurate unless you do like 100x100! But under 10reps its a good tool.

So it looks like your max has went up from 234 to 267. That is really good in 26 days!

[REPS-Forum-Rep]

IMO there is nothing better or cost efficient as E/C/Y. Energy, fat loss, and strength are unmatched when taking this stack compared to jerk off products like hydroxycut or whatever! PM and I can point you in the direction of 700 10mg Ephedrine for $90 that will last you a long time. Supplement Direct which you can find on BB.com, offers 200g of Caffeine for $10 which is a 1000 servings and i can point you in the direction to get 3g yohimbine hcl for $10. Most people only need 20mg of yohimbine so that is 150 servings. So this stack will cost you $110 or less(if you wanted to buy less ephedrine) and would last a year worth of cutting!



Solid Post! For the YOH, I think you mean 3-5mg. Hear is a easy video with dosing info:


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[Bigwill21]

Solid Post! For the YOH, I think you mean 3-5mg. Hear is a easy video with


Dosing

Studies have concluded that the ideal dosing for Yohimbine is .2mg/kg (11) -- this would be 20mg for a 220lb person. Studies using smaller dosages have produced less favorable results. At this level, little to no side effects have been reported (Keep in mind, this is with Yohimbine HCl, not the yohimbe herb). Another thing to be considered when using yohimbine is that insulin completely blunts its lipolytic effects, thus it should ideally be used on a low-carb/ketogenic diet, or at the very least, first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, followed by moderate aerobic activity for an extended period.

Great thanks to "Par Deus" of Avant Lab's for contributing this description.

[Bigwill21]

As i told him in a PM I would only take one dose in the morning on an empty stomach unless you were on a low carb diet due to the blunting effect of insulin on its fat burning properties. If you were to take more during the day it would be solely for the energy effects, but with ephedrine and caffeine I really dont think you would need it! I add synephrine to my cutt stack as well.

[REPS-Forum-Rep]

Dosing

Studies have concluded that the ideal dosing for Yohimbine is .2mg/kg (11) -- this would be 20mg for a 220lb person. Studies using smaller dosages have produced less favorable results. At this level, little to no side effects have been reported (Keep in mind, this is with Yohimbine HCl, not the yohimbe herb). Another thing to be considered when using yohimbine is that insulin completely blunts its lipolytic effects, thus it should ideally be used on a low-carb/ketogenic diet, or at the very least, first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, followed by moderate aerobic activity for an extended period.

Great thanks to "Par Deus" of Avant Lab's for contributing this description.

Yea, I was talking of HCL, as the majority of companies use it now a days. Plus it is easy to test as the standards are readily available.

By chance do you remember a study that correlated GH out put with Yohimbine?

Cheers

[Bigwill21]

By chance do you remember a study that correlated GH out put with Yohimbine?



No never heard of that, but would love to read about it if you have it available. PM it to me so we dont Hi-jack Bodyman's thread!! SRY!

Also why doesnt SD carry Yohimbine in a bulk powder?
I know you have the 5mg pills, but we both know there is bulk yohimbine powder out there! =-)

[BodyMan123]

No never heard of that, but would love to read about it if you have it available. PM it to me so we dont Hi-jack Bodyman's thread!! SRY!

Also why doesnt SD carry Yohimbine in a bulk powder?
I know you have the 5mg pills, but we both know there is bulk yohimbine powder out there! =-)

hey post it in here cause i want to see it too. idc about hi-jack lol

[adoggphx]

Get blood work now and after your cycle get it again. And you will know why they ask you if you are under 21? Let your doctor explain to you about your blood pressure, cholesterol and everything else that will change. Im not lecturing just letting you know.

[BodyMan123]

Get blood work now and after your cycle get it again. And you will know why they ask you if you are under 21? Let your doctor explain to you about your blood pressure, cholesterol and everything else that will change. Im not lecturing just letting you know.

I only have 2 days left sorry man.

[Bigwill21]

So how do you feel your cycle went??

[BodyMan123]

So how do you feel your cycle went??

Sorry for slow update!!

I feel like it went really well...good strength gains and good lean muscle...I just cant wait to do a cut and see what I really have built underneath ( i can feel it).

Ill post progress pics tomorrow.

started PCT today. and I am about to begin my cut.
im going to use up the fat burners that i already have and then get that E/C/Y stack.

[Obnoxious123]

you should log your cut - i am. we can motivate each other (no homo) lol

[BodyMan123]

you should log your cut - i am. we can motivate each other (no homo) lol

haha for sure...i dont think i need motivation...i could always use tips and advice though...

Im motivated to do whatever it takes, this 300 competition is getting heated up...everyones buying supplements and training like crazy...

i need an edge over them... i think my diet is a lot better then them.

[BodyMan123]

Here is our before pictures. Competition started on Jan 20th and The competition ends April 20th.

#1 Me before cycle of course haha
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny009.jpg

#2 My friend BJ (one who made competition) His picture was back in summer 2008 though...hes gay for putting up a along time ago pic. He is a little bit bigger then this.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/bjbefore.jpg

#3 My friend Spencer.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/spencer.jpg

Theres like 10 more people in competition, but these ones are the ones I really only have to worry about cause theyre a lot more motivated then the rest....

Anyways who do you guys think who will win??

[Talljess]

This is awesome. I am 5 days from starting an Epivol cycle and have been following this thread. Glad to here all went well.

[Poppy83]

use this calculator to estimate your 1 rep max:

X2reps 215x.03
x3reps 215x.06
x4reps 215x.09
ETC...

just add three .03 to each additional rep to determine your estimated 1 rep max

I used to use this with clients who werent comfortable doing 1rep max, plus if you dont have a spotter its a safer way to determine it, and its really accurate unless you do like 100x100! But under 10reps its a good tool.

So it looks like your max has went up from 234 to 267. That is really good in 26 days!

No. Just...no. Rep calculators are garbage and over-simplified. Your 1RM is the most weight you have ever pushed/pulled yourself.

[Bigwill21]

No. Just...no. Rep calculators are garbage and over-simplified. Your 1RM is the most weight you have ever pushed/pulled yourself.

Like i said they are an estimate, since he doesnt have more than 215lbs of weight; 1rm calc's are a good tool for those, like i said, who arent comfortable doin 1rm or who dont have more than 215 of plates at home! =)

I agree, you cant say you bench 300lbs if you've never done it.

[Ripped Force138]

Hey OP I havent read through all of your log yet but I saw your pic. How old are you? You look pretty young and I dont know if this was a good idea for you.

[Bigwill21]

you should log your cut - i am. we can motivate each other (no homo) lol

Post your log link.... I just started my Epistane/MaxLMG(clone)/TRENV-700 recomp stack.

I really dont do cuts, because I'm naturally lean, but I should have great fat loss with my diet/wrkout/supps.

I will follow your cut and try to help keep you/me motivated!

[BodyMan123]

Hey OP I havent read through all of your log yet but I saw your pic. How old are you? You look pretty young and I dont know if this was a good idea for you.

I'm 20 man. Yeah true theres pros and cons.

[BodyMan123]

No. Just...no. Rep calculators are garbage and over-simplified. Your 1RM is the most weight you have ever pushed/pulled yourself.

I think rep calculators are pretty accurate...But yeah I agree as in I can't say I can MAX BENCH 267 lbs.. But I bet you I might be able to lift it or be really close to lifting it.

They are just an "estimate" though.

[Bigwill21]

Hey OP I havent read through all of your log yet but I saw your pic. How old are you? You look pretty young and I dont know if this was a good idea for you.

No reason to flame him, what done is done, and just hope his PCT goes well.

[Bigwill21]

Progress Pics! Progress Pics!

;)

[Obnoxious123]

haha for sure...i dont think i need motivation...i could always use tips and advice though...

Im motivated to do whatever it takes, this 300 competition is getting heated up...everyones buying supplements and training like crazy...

i need an edge over them... i think my diet is a lot better then them.

use dave palumbo's cut diet man. **** is real

[BodyMan123]

Progress Pics! Progress Pics!

;)

i will, i cant find my sisters camera cord so i can put them on the computer right now though...ill find it asap


use dave palumbo's cut diet man. **** is real


never heard of it, ill have to look it up though!

[Obnoxious123]

i will, i cant find my sisters camera cord so i can put them on the computer right now though...ill find it asap




never heard of it, ill have to look it up though!

here it is

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5899101

[BodyMan123]

Before Front Relaxed
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny008.jpg

After Front Relaxed
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny027.jpg

Before Front Flexed
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny009.jpg

After Front Flexed
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny025.jpg

More After Pics
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny028.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny031.jpg

Random Hot Girl lol
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/Jessica20Burciaga3.jpg



My bench went from 215x4 up to 215x9 in 30 days...Pretty good I'll be happy with that.

[BodyMan123]

here it is

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5899101

That diet looks pretty good... I might have to give it a shot...

[SmegmaProtein]

sorry bro i dont see any difference whatsoever

[BodyMan123]

sorry bro i dont see any difference whatsoever

yah not much, but i did gain some strength and lost a little fat....I can def tell I have a lot more ab muscle...but yah i agree pics dont really seem any different... once I shed off the fat though you will be able to tell i've gained a lot more then you can see in the pics.

also im not fully flexed in after pics cause i took pics myself and wasnt fully flexed..

[ONtop888]

Before Front Relaxed
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny008.jpg

After Front Relaxed
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny027.jpg

Before Front Flexed
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny009.jpg

After Front Flexed
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny025.jpg

More After Pics
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny028.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/jonny031.jpg

Random Hot Girl lol
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Sum41Jon/Jessica20Burciaga3.jpg



My bench went from 215x4 up to 215x9 in 30 days...Pretty good I'll be happy with that.

You put on a lil strength and size, while cutting a few pounds off your body....good job bro. Now you got to really bust your ass for PCT.....get REVERSITOL or some anti-E shizz, creatine, protein, and a natty test booster....this should DEF be your last cycle untill your older due, your gains would've been alot better if you waited. With that being said, after your done with PCT....I'd go for a spring cut...use MITOTROPIN or an effective Over the counter fat burner andget ripped for the ladies this summer. good luck bub

[BodyMan123]

You put on a lil strength and size, while cutting a few pounds off your body....good job bro. Now you got to really bust your ass for PCT.....get REVERSITOL or some anti-E shizz, creatine, protein, and a natty test booster....this should DEF be your last cycle untill your older due, your gains would've been alot better if you waited. With that being said, after your done with PCT....I'd go for a spring cut...use MITOTROPIN or an effective Over the counter fat burner andget ripped for the ladies this summer. good luck bub

yeah maybe it would have worked better if I was older??...yah i have reversitol, creatine and protein.

but I really have gained A LOT of ab muscle...hard to see in pics and all but i can tell by feeling..

[ONtop888]

yeah maybe it would have worked better if I was older??...yah i have reversitol, creatine and protein.

but I really have gained A LOT of ab muscle...hard to see in pics and all but i can tell by feeling..

yeah,but honestly, as much as your abs may have grown, the worldwill never know unless you lose the fat that covers them...I'm going to do a spring cut for the summer as well. pct sounds good man.

[BodyMan123]

yeah,but honestly, as much as your abs may have grown, the worldwill never know unless you lose the fat that covers them...I'm going to do a spring cut for the summer as well. pct sounds good man.

yeah true thats why im starting a cut in a couple of days.

EDIT: I also think since I changed my diet half-way through that that had a big effect...I was eating a crap-load and then when I dropped tren I cut down a lot on calories...

But I'll still be happy with my results...even though pics really don't seem like a difference at all....but I'll show you guys what I really have gained w/ my after PCT pics... I won't be logging PCT though...But once its done I will post up pics on my 1 month cut.

[REPS-Forum-Rep]

No never heard of that, but would love to read about it if you have it available. PM it to me so we dont Hi-jack Bodyman's thread!! SRY!

Also why doesnt SD carry Yohimbine in a bulk powder?
I know you have the 5mg pills, but we both know there is bulk yohimbine powder out there! =-)

The good Yohimbine HCL powder that will lab out is around 1,000-2,000 dollars a kilogram. Selling 100g would just cost to much and no one wants to buy a 2000 serving bag. Not to mention a scale that is accurate to 4 significant figures is generally at least $300.00 which would be necessary to consume a proper dosage.

PS: Sorry OP, am not meaning to hi-jack your thread!

Cheers